Talk:Pope Urban II

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2018 and 12 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Boombot121.

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kenneth Cornwell.

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Messenger of Hate?

I think this article lacks serious questions surrounding Urban II's racism and ignorance, especially on the faith of Islam. There's no eternal links connecting him to any biography and in particular the speech he preached for the First Cruisade against the Muslims.

There is a link to the various versions of the speech at the end of the article. What do you want to say about racism? It's the eleventh century, not the twenty-first. Adam Bishop 16:59, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, though in comparison to the first speech, the rest have been written years after it has been made. And that info I'll write down later. MikailMoolla 23:10, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well this is wikipedia, not some ignorant PC soapbox...or, well, they may be the same thing, but ought not to be. 72.144.198.53 02:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Messenger of hate? I suggest you actually find out what the First Crusade were intended to do. It is certain that what ended up as a mass slaughtering was NOT his intention from his vigorous attempts to stop later waves of the First Crusade. Further, the First Crusade's actual intent was to lend aid to the defence of the Western Roman Empire. As a mediocre degree of research into the subject would tell you. I recommend in particular "Keepers of the Keys" (actually a history of the Papacy, but it does have a very informative section on the subject of the First Crusade and the Papacy), and any book by Riley-Smith, really. 80.45.116.126 12:51, 1 August 2007 (UTC)Nefertum[reply]

The West Roman Empire fell in 476 A.D. You meant the Byzantine (East Roman Empire).

Urban was obviously not "ignorant" or "hateful", he manipulated people using religion and propaganda against Muslims (like we do in the 21th century) for wealth and lands. He stopped Spanish waves because Spain was being invaded by sarrasins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arg noodles (talk • contribs) 11:28, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please keep your WP:SOAP to yourself.

Creative Commons image

I'm working on the Champagne (province) article and I came across this creative commons photo of a statue in tribute to the fame Champenois Urban II

. I don't know if the editors of this article have a use for this, but feel free if you want to use it. Agne 08:59, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Urban's real motives for instigating the crusade?

I am studying the beginning of the crusades, primarily whether Pope Urban II had another motive than genuine relgion when calling it. I have read many theories such as Urban's desire for extra wealth for the Papacy through opening up trade routes to Eastern Europe and of course loot. Other ideas are that Urban wished to assert his authority over Orthodox Christianity prompting Alexius I of Byzantium to accept him as head of all Christianity thus healing the Great Schism of 40 years previously.

Could anyone offer any historians views on this subjects or websites, books etc, that could be helpful. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.78.94.2 (talk) 13:50, 13 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

I recommend starting with Thomas Asbridge's The First Crusade - A New History - The Roots of Conflict between Christianity and Islam. Also, A History of the Crusades 2nd Edition by Jonathan Riley-Smith. These delve into Urban's motives. Mk26gmls 18:59, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Keepers of the Keys" by Nicolas Cheetham has a very good section on the First Crusade, as I mentioned above. 80.45.116.126 12:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)Nefertum[reply]

"THAT'S NOT REALLY TRUE!!!!!!" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.210.135.192 (talk) 00:42, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What a wonderful refutation. Perhaps the anonymous contradiction could actually come up with some kind of argument, or are they simply happy to tacitly accuse me of lying? 82.108.42.66 (talk) 12:28, 12 November 2008 (UTC)Nefertum.[reply]

Possible family origin identifying Pope Urban II born as Eudes de Châtillon, son of the Seigneur of Châtillon?

From this link Foundation for Medieval Genealogy on Seigneurs de Châtillon identified Pope Urban II as being born as Eudes de Châtillon, the fourth son of Milon the Seigneur de Châtillon and an unknown wife. This is a noteworthy origin, although it could be substantiated by other sources from the Vatican Archives? Sundehul 03:01, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

HARVINGOMOEZ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.226.128.5 (talk) 14:56, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Blessed

Yeah, I'm not Catholic, so I don't really know the procedure and all, but I feel that 'Blessed' is, like, a title, you know? Like 'Saint' or 'Friar' or 'Dr,' so I'm putting it in. IF, however, Blessed is NOT the same, and/or I'm way off, please let me know. Thanks! Masternachos (talk) 23:47, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Vallembrosa

he wrote in Oct. 1096 a Letter to Vallembrosa - what or where is Vallembrosa? Thanks a lof if soon reply. -- Hartmann Schedel ^Prost 18:08, 15 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallombrosa_Abbey —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arg noodles (talk • contribs) 10:05, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

thank you Arg noodles -- Hartmann Schedel ^cheers 11:29, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Urban and Sicily

Is it to be called lay investiture if it is with papal permission? I'm not sure. 24.191.87.42 (talk) 03:12, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

imposition of slavery on the wives of priests

The imposition of slavery on the wives of priests is surely one of the two most notable aspects of Urban II's history. I am disappointed that this has no more mention than "renewed declarations against ..., clerical marriages...". I have encountered passing references to several canon(?) regarding this and supposed 'enforcement' by the Benedictine order under the direction of Urban II and looked to Wikipedia for unbiased details, but without success. It is mentioned briefly on Wikipedia page "Catholic Church and slavery", seeming to justify it 'legally', but with no details. Googling this subject yields many hits, but most or all seem to be highly biased sources. The Catholic Encyclopedia reads like a legal document and yields no light on what actually occurred. Could this page be improved in this area? This is my first comment/edit on Wikipedia, so please bear with me if my approach varies from the norm. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.7.127.230 (talk) 21:38, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Plagiarism by Rolandi+

I am removing, "He was native to France and was descended from a noble family of Châtillon-sur-Marne, near Soissons.", which has been copied from Medieval Italy: An Encyclopedia edited by Christopher Kleinhenz, page 1112[1] and Key Figures in Medieval Europe: An Encyclopedia edited by Richard K. Emmerson, page 641.[2] --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:41, 14 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That is simply not enough text to violate any copyright. Elizium23 (talk) 22:27, 14 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Article Evaluation

Under the first crusades section though I do like that all the versions of Pope Urban's speech to arms are included which allows this article to stat neutral I do believe that in that section it should have hit on other ways he was involved in the crusades. Possibly answering whether or not he was part of decision making on where and when to attack or was? Or was he just the face of the campaign? If so who were the tacticians behind the crusades?Kenneth Cornwell (talk) 17:57, 28 October 2017 (UTC) Kenneth Cornwell[reply]

incoherence and clear bias

author is not coherent with what they say throughout. They will discuss some idea or point and then jump to a completely different point. Not all links to references and sources work though some do. "As the Pope he would have to deal with many issues including the antipope Clement III, infighting of various christian nations, and the Muslim incursions into Europe. He is best known for initiating the First Crusade (1096–99) and setting up the modern-day Roman Curia in the manner of a royal ecclesiastical court to help run the Church.[4] He promised forgiveness and pardon for all of the past sins of those who would fight to reclaim the holy land, and free the eastern churches.[5]This pardon would also apply to those that would fight the Moors in Spain" THis part is weird because as pointed out before, it does not point out his racism against Muslims and shows the authors clear bias, which in an academic source should not present.

~~Philip I of France and Bertrade, Dissolving Royal Marriages: A Documentary History, 860–1600, ed. David d'Avray, (Cambridge University Press, 2014), 47.~~

Orderic Vitalis. The synod took place on 1–7 March 1095; the Pope stayed in Piacenza until the second week in April: P. Jaffé, Regesta pontificum Romanorum, editio secunda, I (Leipzig 1885), p. 677.
~~dont work~~

~~Key Figures in Medieval Europe: An Encyclopedia: "Urban II, Pope (c.1035-1099, r.1088-1099)"~~
~~does not work~~
~~Key Figures in Medieval Europe: An Encyclopedia - Page 641 Kleinhenz,Ch.Medieval Italy: An Encyclopedia~~

nope ...
Quotes from Urban II's letters taken from "Crusades, Idea and Reality, 1095–1274"; Documents of Medieval History 4; eds. Louise and Johnathan Riley-Smith, London 1981, 37–40.

not a citation ^

~~Presents one sided view of history and makes crusades to be a holy war instead of discussing crusades in a nuanced way that captures all sides of the story.~~

Lansingjm (talk) 05:27, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

User was indefinitely blocked for vandalism June 2019.