Talk:Sales/Archives/2011

Revision

I revised the article, added definitions and made it more coherent. I hope ;-} --Charlesemorganiv 18:38, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I think the page looks a lot more like what I'd expect to see when I was researching sales in a hard cover dictionary. I did some more edits.--Charlesemorganiv 18:33, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Removed for POV

So, in summary, a socialist system that has limited competition and reduced product choice does not require a sales effort, therefore demonstrating the superiority of the socialist system even though it has lower overall production and poorer quality goods produced.

If the above sentence should be removed for POV, shouldn't the whole advertisement for socialism also be removed (the socialist critique of sales)? Is there a similar section in the democracy entry on wikipedia called "the totalitarian critique of voting"?

Good point. I would be up for that. 1 vote for the deletion of this section. Any others?

This a definitely seems to be a bit of garbage. I was looking for some definitive information on the process of selling. This does not meet my requirements. MindBear 19:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The downside to sales?

My feelings are the act of selling, or salesmanship, often deviates from the supposed purpose of selling: to help a customer realize his or her goals in an economic fashion. On the contrary, I feel customers are often influenced to realize a product or service that initially was not of interest to them. Some salespeople are trained in the art of selling customers things they don't need.

Take for example the purchasing of a car: a consumer may have a set of cars in mind that she feels match her needs, wants and budget. She may seek the advice of a salesperson given that a salesperson can help her realize the right car given those criteria. This can be a socially useful function; salespeople have specialized knowledge of products that can help consumers make an informed decision. However, a salesperson may also talk a consumer into purchasing a more expensive or perhaps larger car then she needs or can afford. In this context, the salesperson may have usefully helped the customer re-evaluate her needs, thereby establishing a new set of appropriate choices among which included the newer or large car. This again would be a helpful and useful service provided by the salesperson. However, it is often the case that customers purchase a product or service that was not initially intended and remains an inappropriate purchase after the fact. The consumer in this scenario be held responsible in part for the sale of an inappropriate product or service; indeed, "A fool and his money are soon parted." (P.T. Barnum)

However, it is often the salesperson who directs and influences this inappropriate purchase.

Thus, I believe that the act of selling is in conflict with other features of the selling process that go unspoken. These include:

- incentives of salespeople to increase their total number of sales, especially where retailers keep track of sales or offer commission-based salaries - incentives from the manufactures of products or the companies of service providers to salespeople to sell their products where other similar products offered by competitors are offered - the incentive to sell a customer a product that is in need of being cleared out, despite the fact that a customer may be better to wait for the new product

Clearly these are just a few of my thoughts on the negative side of salesmanship. Admittedly, I am also new to Wikipedia. However, I do feel that some mention of the down side of sales ought to be mentioned, especially given:

• the increasing propensity for people (especially in the north america) to carry debt- often large and unsustainable amounts of it
• that some people develop compulsive shopping disorders, or are easily persuaded
• the fact that child advertising has risen sharply, especially during the 1980s
• the excesses we enjoy in the consumer-driven western economy

Please feel free to add to my thoughts above...but you already new that! --Charlesjennings 8 July 2005 19:30 (UTC)

I agree with your main points.

My concern is that the article reads like an advertising brochure for a sales job. Clearly, a more objective exposition is warranted. The article needs to explain the economic incentives for a salesperson to sell the product regardless of whether the consumer needs it. Furthermore, there should be more attention to the strategies that the salesperson employs in order to convince the consumer to buy the product. The role of the sales pitch should be included too.

I would do this if I was more qualified and cared more about it. Rintrah 03:33, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

I will quickly add the material. More editing will be necessary to make it more NPOV. mydogategodshat 04:19, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

I have sold many things on many floors, the incentive is always more money or a better position. The only time that this is different is on a non-commission sales floor. Selling cameras and cars is all the same. As far as closing; there are more types of closes than there are people in America, the way that a sales person chooses their canned closes is going to be based on; the type of sales person, the type/s of customer/s, and what they have learned insofar as ways to close. It has been determined by many that there would be no actual way to list every close but some of my favorites are: "How many do you want?" "Can I have this wrapped up for you?" "What if I can do this for you?" "What's it gonna take for me to get you to leave in this/with this tonight?" "What is your favorite color?" Can you see yourself driving/taking this home today?" "Oh, just one more thing..."(a.k.a. Colombo Close)

Where is the logical arguement? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.162.88.71 (talk) 15:38, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Etymology

I have read that the word 'sale' comes from the Greek word for salt ( άλας, alas ). Specifically that Romans acquired the word 'alas' and then rearranged the letters of the word( anagram ), and made the word 'sala', which was the word for salt. Salt was traded much and roman soldiers where paid with it. Furthermore, the word 'sale' was created, meaning the trading of sala (salt). Abresas 01:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Qualities of a good salesperson

This whole section reads incredibly awkwardly, however I'm not quite sure how to go about even starting to fix it. Crystal 03:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

• Hell, it's so terrible it's not even worth saving. And even if it were better written, the subject matter is so, well, subjective that it doesn't even belong in an encyclopedia. Unless anyone has any objections, I'm removing it. -- Johnny Wishbone 05:06, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

This section is not only poorly written but the advice seems sarcastic and even abusive. For example: "Also, try to get a girlfriend named Crystal that you met at a club. It'll make you feel better about yourself." Need I say more? This subject is subjective although there are some basics that could be said. I don't claim to know the subject well but this section seems way off mark and seems to have little practical information. Some of the information is overly generalized. Such as, "Customers also like it when you call them buddy," This assumes that all Customers are the same. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it the object of the sales person to listen and comprehended each individual customer's personality, wants, and needs and apply their product or service to achieving a successful and mutually agreeable solution resulting in a sale? To begin with assumptions about the prospect seems to be a counter productive activity and could result in immediate resistance to the salesperson. I agree the present content should be removed or better yet replaced with a competent discussion of the subject because the qualities of a salesman it is a vitally important part of sales that should be represented here. Michael EF 10:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

— —Sales as a function of product bounding–– Contributed by Orignal_Traveler

In specialty product markets or in circumstances where there is a limited product selection for the sales person to be able to sell, it can be said that there is a level of "product bounding". This creates the need for the sales person or organization to put levels of emotional, social, and intelectual pressure on prospective customers to buy their product instead of someone else's product.

A product bound environment demonstrated by the sales effort in a used car lot. A sales person only has a limited inventory and diversity of product to sell. Whenever a protential customer comes on the lot, the sales person often attempts to make a sale regardless of the real needs and assets of the customer. Used car sales is traditionally seen as the place that most often will the use of emotional and social pressure to make a sale.

The use of emotional and social pressure to make sales within a product bound environment is also seen extensively in the computer industry. Large computer companies are noted for "wining and dining" the excutives of companys to make sales of their computer products, hardware and/or software. More often than not, the specific technical capabilites of the products to be sold are not considered, but the social relationship of the sales person to the customer, or the political correctness of the vendor company. For example, it has been said that an excutive has never gotten in trouble for buying a particular well known company's product, even if the project or service that used the product was less than successful because of the product that was purchased. This is particually difficult for the customer base when the product to be sold is inhierently flawed and causes a whole class of problems within the IT serve environment that had not been seen before, or to the scale that the flawed product engenders.

This product bounding also has a major influenc on the information that is made available to protential customers. Large companies have the incentive to generate large amounts of documentation that promotes their product or their approach to solving particular types of problems with their product. Companies and sales people are noted for placating the non-technical executives of a company when the technical personnel that are then forced to use the product chosen are less than pleased with the choice.

Please note above "concept" as sales psychology. This process of forced purchasing based on limited product selections exists in every market. Take for example the fast food industry. Sales slogan "Have it your way" is only true as long as your way appears on the choices in the menu. The position of the sales person and buyer, and their motivations and inner thought processes belongs in a different type of article. Say the "art of sales" or "the psychology the sale" or "elements of sales processes".--Charlesemorganiv 05:33, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

References

The references to Google books require an account. Can anyone sort the references to be proper references with title, author, ISBN, etc, the URL is less important? Rich257 21:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

The whole article seems to miss the big point - that 'sales' covers a multitude of different activities. For example there is a massive difference between business to business (B2B) sales, often involving high value, multiple decision makers, lengthy sales cycle etc. and business to consumer (B2C sales) which are often characterised by low value, short cycle etc. Think about it: IBM sells a computer system to a bank. Your local Ford dealer sells you a car. The local store sells you a newspaper. The current owners sell you their house. The stationary supplier sells a company a few boxes of paper. Clearly the attributes of the transaction, and what make effective or ineffective selling, will vary enormously. I think I have a genuine understanding of the content but I'm an inexperienced contributor. I don't think the current article needs cleaning up, I think it needs replacing - but don't feel confident enough to do it. Where do I go from here? 81.171.159.106 15:05, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Wow. This entry is a real mess. The authors fail to convey any information defining sales, and the references below have been mucked with to the point they are mostly worthless. i.e. - I added consultative sales some time ago, which is NOT an agency?? sale (what in the world is an "agency sale") and it now links to a page on consultants. Gee. This is just incompetent. I'm happy to provide material and references, but every few months I check back and non-business, non-sales folks have taken apart the pages. Note that the reviewer above is describing the difference between transactional sales and complex/enterprise sales. That reviewer could not find this definition (though it was here earlier) and the links are now worthless to help the reader discover the underlying definitions. Very frustrating. If someone has only a vague opinion, but no background nor expertise, should they be re-organizing pages? Lricci 01:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Sale of Goods

This page is redirected from 'Sale of Goods'. Is this nessesary?

• This article covers sale in abstraction, covering property, land, intellectual
• 'Sale of Goods' is more often used as a concept in Law but is one puts Bamkin 13:57, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Direction is required here

I have added a paragraph to try and provide some direction to this article. Basically, this piece meanders all over the park, which is not at all surprising given the breadth and complexity of the topic. My suggestion is that the article begin by analyzing the fundamental elements of the most basic purchase event and expand the notion as the purchase event grows in complexity. I will attempt to tackle the foundation in another edit. If the article is allowed to jump from a dictionary definition (sans disambiguation) to “closing the deal” it risks pandering to the childish fears and popular myths perpetuated by the uninitiated. With a little organization and direction this could become a useful and educational article. Waynegillikin (talk) 15:49, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

There's a separate article Sales (accounting) (in the See also section of this article) about how "sales" is used in finance. -- • • • Blue Pixel 00:30, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

After-sales service

Could something be mentioned on this subject as well? E-pen (talk) 15:07, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Usage of 'douche'

Apparently the word "douche" has been in the second paragraph of this article for quite some time, yet I'm unsure as to the reason why it's still there. I looked around at various dictionary definitions and cannot find anything that remotely relates to a non-medical - much less business and marketing - usage. Shouldn't we remove this? - Roy (05-May-2010) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.11.22.168 (talk) 01:33, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Copyright

This article was recently claimed to be a violation of the copyright in COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS MANAGEMENT: Process and Technology to Support ... By RAVINDAR TOMAR (ISBN 9380228554, ISBN 9789380228556). Global India Publications, 2009.[1] pages 14 through to 20.

I believe this is not the case:

• A Sale is the pinnacle activity involved in selling products or services in return for money or other compensation...
  • Added by User:Lambertb, 9 July 2008[2]
• It is an act of completion of a commercial activity...
  • Added by User:Himanshi singh, 16 May 2007.[3]
• A sale is completed by the seller, the owner of the goods. It starts with consent '..., only the seller does that.
  • Added by User:203.213.99.147 28 Feb 2008[4]
  • See also[5] Feb 2008.
• Note the list of sales techniques dates all the way back to 2004[6]
• The sales agent list originated in 2007[7]

I expect with a bit of effort we could probably establish which version of this article the work is apparently derived from. This version dated Feb 2009 looks pretty close, but whenever it was, it is clear this article grew organically before that date. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 19:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh.

It did cross my mind that Mr. Tomar might have lifted his entire book from us rather than the other way around, but when I looked at the book (link here), I found a copyright notice claiming "Copyright 2009 by Global India Publications Pvt Ltd", and only a single mention of "Wikipedia" (page 205), not a credit but the statement "Companies such as eBay, or collectives such as Wikipedia or SourceForge are rich and sophisticated combinations of basic linguistic deliverables that expand ...", so I added the {{copyvio}} tag to the article.

As you have already seen, every edit quoted above matches word-for-word material on page 14 of the book. The rest of our article also appears in the book, word-for-word. I apologize to all for raising a false copyvio alarm. I'll add back the {{incoherent}} tag to the restored lead. --CliffC (talk) 21:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

No problem, better safe than sorry, and always worth looking at closely especially when there are reputations on the line. As we've seen, the intro is a bit of a jumble of various editors' definitions. Please as you were. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 21:45, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Rewrite suggestions

Since this is an article about salesmen, not how important they are (which violates WP:NPOV anyway), maybe the article should focus on what a salesperson does, the different kinds of sales positions, and compensation practices. As it is, reading this article gave me a flashback to 1999, and not in a good way.Jeremystalked _talk 00:56, 5 June 2010 (UTC)