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famous
i think you're the most famous korean here by seeing how much users adore you!
back to goguryeo 06:22, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Welcome!
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Hi! Welcome to Wikipedia. It's certainly nice to have more Korean editors around. Ssome of the topics you touched upon is deemed controversial and you may need to discuss more of your changes before posting =). Also, please visit Portal:Korea to see what parts of Korea-related article needs more work and etc. Anyway, welcome! Deiaemeth02:23, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, about your recent changes
First of all, I read your user page. I sure do hope that you get to win her. Definitely, I am 100% behind your wish.
Anyways, about the Admiral Yi article, I saw that you made a large deletion of a section. I read the section, and I also agree with your deletion.
But is it true that he really spent the early years of his service up in the north fighting the Jurchens? If it is then, we should have modified on it, not deleted it. Thanks for your participation, good friend. (Wikimachine00:50, 25 May 2006 (UTC))[reply]
Image copyright problem with Image:Koreansword.jpg
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Please do not add commentary and your personal analysis of an article into Wikipedia articles. Doing so violates Wikipedia's NPOV rules and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. Supadawg - [[User_talk:Supadawg|Talk]] 00:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Good friend100! I will be restricted from internet connection (thus Wikipedia) most of the time, and I will not be able to respond to many of the arguments that I had already exposed myself to. I discussed much with you, and I think you are a very experienced Wikipedian.
So, on my talk page, I left a list of Wikipedians whom people might contact in place of me. Such people might include User talk:Objectman and many other JPOV advocates.
Also, if you happen to scroll over arguments that I used to continue, and the JPOV Wikipedians' comebacks aren't answered, you could answer them for me -that is, if you happen to know about the subject.
Thanks for uploading Image:Hansan1.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.
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Image copyright problem with Image:Hansanbattle.jpg
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Thanks for uploading Image:Battlemap.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.
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i thank you, too, for the barnstar. i hope everyone can work together to improve korea-related articles & fend of the never-ending vandalism. i hope you stick around & enjoy contributing here as much as i do :-) Appleby17:05, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Welcome to the Military history WikiProject!
Hi, and welcome to the Military history WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history.
A few features that you might find helpful:
Our navigation box points to most of the useful pages within the project.
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If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask one of the project coordinators, or any experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! Kirill Lokshin17:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
AWARDS
The Epic Barnstar
I hereby present Good friend100 with the Epic Barnstar for his incredible contributions to Korea's history related articles Oyo32122:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
I hereby (again) present Good friend100 for his efforts to improve the quality of Korea history related articles Oyo32122:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Battle of Tadaejin
Thank you for creating the article. I will probably request your help cuz my Korean is a bit low. See you soon. An-nyung !Whlee08:37, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
yo
안영하세요
korean:
저는 1989년 9월 13일에 태여났씁다.
나는 영어,독일말 와 한자 지금 배우고 근데 나는 한국말 잘 하는 데,근데 나는 한국말 컴퓨터에 칠떼 엄청 느림고 한국말 못씁니다.
나는 KBS Drama "서울 1945"봅니다.너는 서울 1945 시러 하는것 아라요.나는 상간 없는다.근데 나는 좋아헤요.
다시 나한테 한국말 아니면 영어로 말해줘요.
english:
can i help you finish the imjin war timeline?i can help you complete it.talk to me in english,my bad about korean.
dark-hooded smoker
You're right to observe what you did about the naming. It's an irony (to put it mildly) that strikes me too. I suggest there is little to be gained by raising it on that talk page though. I wonder when and why the policy was instituted? --Guinnog12:31, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
hello again
i live in 경상도,but now i'm going to massachusetts,usa in august 15 2006 at night time.even if that is a public holiday,im going to meet 2 of my best friends there.c ya.user:dark-hooded smoker
Hey Good friend100! Again, as there was in Turtle Ship, some game maniacs are dedicating a significantly large section of the article to write about games.
I know what you are going to say, that more infos are fine. But please reconsider and take a vote. It really looks awkward when Hwacha article is short in the first place. (Wikimachine13:37, 16 July 2006 (UTC))[reply]
I would just back off and not continue the discussion. It's not really productive, and is just leading to more anger on both sides. Kirill Lokshin16:50, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Korea-related articles: priorities
I will edit more articles when I have time. I have also reshaped, expanded and re-written part of the Gojoseon article. What do you think is the most urgent task? modern or ancient history?
I'm debating whether I should expand the 3 kingdoms article or the Korea under Japanese rule. What do you think?
I believe that provided we concentrate our efforts on a few subjects, we can write decent articles about Korea. What is the heavy argument you're talking about? maybe I can be of some help. Shogo Kawada08:53, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
HappyApple contact
Hi, answering to your question. Yes, i can speak korean and read hangeul. Although i am not in a professional level to understanding it, but common words and phrases i can. By the way, there is some sort of lenght and information issues on Hwacha article. Will you take a look on it?, I believe the article is becoming short. --HappyApple21:21, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Question about some images
- Hello, Mr/s Good friend 100. I am Questionfromjapan. How's it going with you? Anyway, I have a question about images you contributed, i.e., Image:Noryang.jpg and Image:Kimshimin.jpg. When and who painted those? Those are really good images. If it's possible, please write those informations on the image's summary. Thank you.--Questionfromjapan 11:52, 17 July 2006 (UTC) (To Taeguk Warrior, DO NOT Delete my talk!)--Questionfromjapan21:53, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your reply on my talk page. I am looking foward to your answer for a while. And one more thig. The copyright tags of Image:Noryang.jpg and Image:Kimshimin.jpg are replaced by another user. Do you know it and is it OK? Thank you.
P.S. I think, there is a bit difference in opinion between us, but you are really tireless contributer for wikipedia. Please hold on the improving the quality of wikipedia. Thank you.--Questionfromjapan11:04, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
images, citations
thanks for all your hard work on korea related articles. if you don't mind, may i make some suggestions that may make your time here more enjoyable & your contributions more valuable?
1. there's really no point in arguing about personal opinions, even on user talk pages. it doesn't matter if someone thinks korea is xyz or japan is xyz or the earth is flat. you're not going to convince them & they're not going to convince you, and the opinions don't belong in the articles, so why bother?
2. what does go in the articles are cited facts. if you can provide citations to reputable sources that say what you want to add, you avoid having to even argue about personal opinions. you can get rid of those pesky [citation needed] tags by just providing a link, & you can battle dubious assertions by placing such a tag, and after a week or so of no citations, simply deleting the assertion.
of course, the famous english encyclopedias don't always have details that we need for korea-related articles, but links to museum sites, books from google scholar, korean-language encyclopedias (some nice ones at daum, naver, yahoo korea), etc. can all be better than nothing, as long as the link doesn't look like somebody's personal blog. if you have problems with people deleting properly cited info, it's much easier to get other editors to take action against that kind of vandalism.
3. wikipedia's pretty serious about their image policy. generally, two-dimensional artwork older than 100 years are fine, but anything more recent is pretty iffy. "fair use" is actually quite limited. for example, an article about an artist can have his paintings in it, but an article about a battle can't use a painting of the battle as "fair use."
there have been many new images uploaded by well-meaning new users that obviously violate copyright law. this is especially a problem if they replace a previous good (legally acceptable, even if less spectacular) image. other editors or bots will eventually delete the new improper image & forget to revert to the earlier good image. the article will end up with fewer images and the usable images will be lost in the shuffle, which is really sad because they're so hard to come by.
Please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks and Wikipedia:Civility. By the by, I really couldn't care less about whether or not you have respect for me. Your "valuable information" was neither "valuable" nor "information," but instead was not much more than a child closing his eyes and covering his ears, babbling the same words repeatedly--nothing but personal attacks and rudeness. I won't go further at risk of being uncivil myself, but you are somewhat stretching my patience by resorting to nothing more than name calling and threats ("I already wrote this down...Words of mouth is going to hurt you a lot."? Please!) LactoseTI05:15, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned fair use image (Image:Kimshimin.jpg)
This file may be deleted.
Thanks for uploading Image:Kimshimin.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.
If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stifle (talk) 10:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Email
Hi Good friend100; I was wondering if you could email me, or allow users to email you. I wanted to have an off-Wiki conversation if you didn't mind; just some minor stuff. Komdori17:58, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue V - July 2006
The July 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
Hello over there, it has passed almost two weeks and i think the response on AMA for solve the problems regarding Hwacha article will take some time to be solved. Meanwhile will you please leave your comments at talk:Hwacha? , i believe User:Wikimachine is in favor to delete substantial information on the article arguing that it is bogus and unencyclopedic. He says that this version [1] was poorly written and in a bad grammar, while he prefers his own version (see Hwacha) - (some sort of his personal whims) stating that he has the enough and better professionalism than any other wikipedians.--HappyApple22:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and placed a link and brief summary of the battle in the Cheongju page, as well as a link to that page from Battle of Chongju. I left the romanization as it was in the original article, since I don't know how the name is typically romanized amongst military historists. --Zonath00:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Identity
It's a bit complicated. Yes, I am an ethnic Korean, Korean ancestors, etc. but I have a French citizenship and I currently live in New York. I lived and studied in Japan, at Tokyo University, for quite a while though.
Shogo Kawada17:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to remind you not to make bad decisions here on wikipedia. Remember when the Dokdo talk page was vandalized by the Japan side editors? They looked really lame. Remember what you do represents Korea and people will have a better impression for Korea.
There really is no formal name for the siege of Busan in Korean since Korea lost the battle. It is probably called "부산성 전투" or "부산 공격" in Korea. I don't think there is a formal name. Good friend10003:49, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are looking to elect seven coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by August 11!
the picture Image:koreanirregular.jpg is licensed. The site gave permission for all of its use on images as long as the picture was copyrighted to them. This is the second time now. I don't understand why everybody is so consistent with deleting and tagging images on the Imjin War article. Good friend10023:03, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, i am glad to talk to you again. I have received your note in my discussion page. I agree to you that to point out people is not good idea, and is not my intention to do that. And i am ready to work together,(including Wikimachine if necessary), to improve the article, my desire is stop arguing.
I also want to say thank you for helping me on Hwacha's article but i want to remark that i have never used the word "frustration" i would qualify my feeling towards to Wikimachine's behaviour as sadness :-( as i believe his comments were totally unpolite. I have edited the article and reworked the introduction which i believe is fairly neutral and accurate, i would appreciate you please take a look on it. Thank you once again, Cheers :) --HappyApple07:20, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
korean war and napalm
hello. i just saw your posting on the discussion list for the korean war, and yes, the US did use napalm, a lot of it, and a lot of it hit civilians. if you want to read more or see some pix try "korea: the unknown war" by bruce cumings. it is very readable and looks more at the political and social events the gave rise to the war and not just the military part. Hongkyongnae01:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Stay on topic
Talk pages are designed to talk about the article in question, not to discuss whether or not my name is ironic. If you want to talk about issues unrelated to the articles, try using the user talk pages--it's why they exist. This is at least the second time you were warned about this. Please read Wikipedia:What_is_a_troll. This criticism is especially true of the former warning, which you deleted/archived. Komdori11:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Taeguk Warrior, I understand you want to help Korean related articles. But we need to stay on topic and not make personal attacks, or personal opinions. Please, its just making you look bad. The more supporters we have for the Imjin War, Dokdo, etc etc we can make Korean related articles better.
Please stop. Its not doing us any good, and certainly you are making Korea look bad. The best way to show your patriotism or whatever is to write good articles and add references. Improving Korean related articles can show how rich Korean history is. Please, don't do anything that you would regret later. Good friend10001:44, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hello once again, i have found this image is very descriptive to the article you have been working on (Imjin Wars right?). I think this image should stay and it doesn't need a fair use claim because it seems this image is older enough to be claimed under the public domain terms.
If you can give me an exact or a circa date when this picture or painting was made or created (perhaps the 16th century?-not sure) i think we can properly talk to LactoseTI ? and agree to him or her, to change all the tags to this: {{PD-art}} and settle down this apparent dispute. Cheers :-) --HappyApple16:27, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I encourage you to get date/artist information; that would really help to figure out what's going on with this image. The image is good--I mean, how many people make artwork of events like this? The number is almost zero, so if we don't find it, we probably won't. My suspician is that this image was specifically made for the purpose of commemoration, and unfortunately has an active copyright. If you could buckle down and do just a little background factfinding we might be able to benefit from this nice image. LactoseTI17:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not add nonsense to Wikipedia. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. LactoseTI 03:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure how your recent post on the Liancourt Rocks talk page has anything to do with the naming issue. If you just want to whine/complain about what I said without responding, take it to a talk page--or do what you mentioned on the page, and not reply at all. This talk page is already full of junk where people are arguing about unrelated issues . I would have responded to your comments there myself, but I don't want to contribute to the problem. LactoseTI03:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Imjin Wars related articles
Hi, thank you for replying me back on my discussion page. Sorry for the delay.
Unfortunatelly, LactoseTI has tagged some of the images i uploaded to Hwacha article as copyright infringement because according to him or her, thinks that those images are copyvio, resulting that i needed to defend the images contacting the authors , (still awaiting for their response), and stating their webpages where they can be reached if further information is required.
As you know, sadly, there are some users who suddenly become into "defenders on copyright in Wikipedia", i know, it is sad that our images can be just deleted by users like this, but unfortunatelly they are right, because copyright it has caused serious problems to Wikipedia.
I have experienced this problem long before he had even joined to Wikipedia so i know how to defend my images.
I would be glad to assist you in any further problems you may have with the images you have uploaded as with other articles of the Imjin Wars.
On Haengju map, i agree with you that it could be in the public domain in Korea, if you can find the date of creation i would be glad to change the taggs to {{PD-old}}.
If you can't find further information and you still believe the image can be used, you can upload a new version of this map but with low quality (in low size-you can reduce the size in a photoshop program or Microsoft Word) and we can agree to write together a text of justification of "fair use" for the image, and then can be used in articles.
As i said i would be glad to assist you on this image (and others you have any further problems) because it is very good and i think it should stay. Cheers --HappyApple17:47, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned fair use image (Image:Chosun soldier.jpg)
This file may be deleted.
Thanks for uploading Image:Chosun soldier.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.
If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 03:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned fair use image (Image:Turtleship.jpg)
This file may be deleted.
Thanks for uploading Image:Turtleship.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.
If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 03:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned fair use image (Image:Noryang.jpg)
This file may be deleted.
Thanks for uploading Image:Noryang.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.
If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 03:59, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned fair use image (Image:Okpo.jpg)
This file may be deleted.
Thanks for uploading Image:Okpo.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.
If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 04:00, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned fair use image (Image:Pusan.jpg)
This file may be deleted.
Thanks for uploading Image:Pusan.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.
If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 04:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Unspecified source for Image:Chinju.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Chinju.jpg. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.
If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 04:02, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Re:Bkell
go ahead and delete them it doesn't matter. It becomes a job to some of you editors when it comes to deleting and tagging images in the Imjin War article. Good friend10003:14, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Possibly unfree Image:Okpo.jpg
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Okpo.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. Please go to its page for more information if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. LactoseTI06:39, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, Good friend, I am a newcoming Korean editor. I just wanted to say that I applaud you for your defense of the
독도 article's neutrality and quality. Please keep it up, because you are well informed about the issue.
thanks for the support. I suggest you get a username so you can take an active part in the discussions. Check talk pages at Imjin War or History of Korea or History of Japan if you want to talk more discussions as well.
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Pusan.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. Please go to its page for more information if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. LactoseTI19:45, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I know, this was the first notice of listing of this as a possibly unfree image. Did you remove such notices before? Please don't remove them until the situation has been resolved/pictures have been deleted. It needs to stay here until then, at least. LactoseTI01:10, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Good! So I'm not sure why you suggested any were repeated--none on this page (that I left) are repeated comments (as far as I know). Try to read them a bit more closely in the future. LactoseTI03:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You dont need to be so rude Lactose. He was just trying to do something good for Wikipedia History of Warfare involved in East Asia. --HappyApple04:06, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
HappyApple contact II
Hi, Goodfriend 100, i have found that there are a couple of images that they were (unappropiately) tagged as copyright infrigement, but i think that they can adecuately be claimed fair use and subsecuently stay and keep in Wikipedia, and those are : Image:Okpo.jpg ,Image:Chinju.jpg,
Image:Noryang.jpg, by following this link and scrolling down with your mouse and finding the images mentioned, you can post your oppinions and vote on whether to "delete" or "keep", you can call some of your Korean collaborators and they can post their impressions too, on delete or keep.
Those images are very good and highly descriptive for the series of events related to Imjin Wars, and i believe we can save these images if the other editors you know (Korean collaborators that seems to have work with you) can contribute on their oppinions choosing keep in the ongoing vote at images pending vote for deletion. As a reader, personally i feel that your images are really great and it would be a pitty if they are just "speedied" by stating that they are not "iconic" (in the sense of less representative to this conflict) as user:Kusunose suggests, which i emphasize the fact that i totally disagree him on this. Cheers, --HappyApple04:06, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the notice. I understand how urgent they seem to delete the images. The "possibly unfree images" has not been visited by me before so let me take a longer time to read it through.
[Encarta's definition] - "characterized by fame: relating to or characteristic of somebody or something admired as an icon
Their fame has grown to iconic proportions."
Basically, it means something so famous that "everyone" knows it. The idea is that if, when you hear the term in question, most people who know the event will automatically think of the painting then it is iconic (not the case for these paintings, but it is for some).
Incidently, HappyApply tagged it inappropriately--it's not a vote. Even if the consensus is to want to keep the image, it gets deleted unless some kind of acceptable fair use rationale is presented. LactoseTI23:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome User:Good friend100 :) , First my impressions:
Encarta's definition it is correct (not need to argue about this), it is related to something characterized by fame, but i disagree with user:LactoseTI as he is not counting the fact to whom is admired as an icon.
Guernica has strong connotations for Spaniards like Louis XIV's portrait to Franks and so on, but to say that only because of that they are iconic (in the sense of historically representative) it is highly restrictive bias to western art and culture.
It is like to say: That only because Guernica happened in Spain and it happened in the eve of World War II has to be considered iconic because everyone knows about it. I disagree to it, you can't say this to refer to everyone on earth, each culture has their opinion and their beliefs on whether what is iconic and what is not.
For Koreans and East Asian people certainly these battles marked an era of warfare and conflict relations to Japan that affected them and influenced further conflicts to come (specifically on the early 20th century). In terms of "mass" and trying to justify user:LactoseTI's rationale as correct, he is not counting the fact that ammount of people which lives on East Asia outnumber the volume of habitants of Europe and even the Americas. And if we consider (East Asian) oppinion about this, certainly they will say this is iconic.
It would be appropiately to let East Asian paintings to be placed in articles claiming fair use (as many other pictures and portraits of western culture have been uploaded on English Wikipedia) of course avoiding abuse and adequately used. (event though made in the late 20th century).
And the reason for that is that each image (event though made in the late 20th century) have a graphic description of the author who tried to give an artistic recreation of how the battle would have been, and if we consider that this can have the attention and subsecuently explain better how the events developed to the readers and general public, a fair use is justified.
As the tag on each image (of supposedly dubious copyright) says "you can comment upon removal" as other editors can put their impressions of whether to delete and keep the image, they have the right to do so.
If you care to read it, I left a response on HappyApple's talk page. The short of it is that I'm not discounting all the people in Asia--just the fact is they have not heard or seen of this photo. The battle is famous, but not the picture. LactoseTI12:30, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but not so popular as the "Mona Lisa" or something along these lines, surely--that's what an "iconic" picture is. LactoseTI18:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Once again (not need to be restrictive), The Mona Lisa, to western culture (Italy though), while "Xiao and Xiang Rivers" to Chinese (Dong Yuan) or "The Landscape of Geumgangsan" to Koreans (Gyeomjae). --HappyApple04:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There really is no "standard" for how popular a picture is. You can make a good guess polling people in your neighborhood but its crude because you would have to poll like 50 people from each nation.
Also, these pictures are not aliens to East Asian countries. For example, the picture of Noryang Point where Admiral Yi is in the corner, shot by a bullet, most people can recognize it. They'll say "Oh, Admiral Yi is dying, this is the battle of Noryang Point".
I think you're missing the point. It doesn't matter that they recognize the subject of the picture. Would most people say, "Oh, this is the painting called such-and-such by so-and-so in approximately 19xx"? Even people who were arguing for these photos occasionally thought they were ancient, had no idea who/when they were painted, etc. So I agree with the idea they are not iconic pictures. An iconic painting is "universally known" painting, not a well known event. Komdori21:19, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This is not any picture. I am talking specifically about the Imjin War paintings. Plus, how do you know what Koreans really know? The Imjin War is studied at a very large scale and it is also a popular topic, considering the dark chapter in Korea's history.
Also, people don't need to know the name of the painting or who painted. What people recognize is what the painting depicts. Obviously the paintings are not universally known as well as the Mona Lisa or the Last Supper etc etc but it is well known enough to be recognized as a certain battle and in Wikipedia the battle article is the most important right? Good friend10021:59, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That's not the point. If it's the fact that they recognize the event, the picture is not iconic. They have to recognize that particular picture--that painting must be famous for it to be iconic. LactoseTI01:19, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's important to keep the fact, to whom is "univerally known" and to which culture it means to as iconic, Not everyone can accept Mona Lisa is iconic. (Avoid bias here) (In my culture this is the case). I agree to Goodfriend100 that some pictures have a dual effect, which they are ilselfs iconic and they can make reader to link the picture to a specific historical event. Like Cardinal Richelieu portrait to Thirty Years' War or the Bayeux Tapestry to Battle of Hastings. --HappyApple03:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps in another 400 years or so those paintings might be as iconic as the very old paintings you described. It's a different situation. Just you wanting it to be an iconic painting doesn't mean it is one. The Mona Lisa is by any definition iconic--it's probably the most famous painting by one of the world's most famous painters. I doubt Koreans know the painter of the paintings you like, and I doubt they know when they were painted. I also doubt they have ever seen or heard of those specific paintings. Clearly, outside of Korea this is even more true. LactoseTI14:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Re: Announcement
Please don't leave global announcements about your availability on articles' talk pages. You may use your user page or your own talk page for this kind of announcement. Again, please think carefully about what exactly the purpose of an article discussion page is. If you have not yet left, I suggest you remove these advertisements--this is one of the few cases where it's acceptable. LactoseTI23:30, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Just to let you know, I am not sure if I made it clear before--while I disagree with you (it seems like often)--I admire the effort you put into your edits and I am happy to see that you can take constructive suggestions. I hope you stick around (and keep an open mind!) :D Enjoy your trip. LactoseTI04:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy contact
Hi, i have noticed you left a note warning that you are going to be away from Wikipedia article affairs because a trip. Could i have your email address if i need to contact you later in case of "disaster" (in the sense of keeping in contact) ?, i would appreciate your soon response.Cheers, --HappyApple15:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I dunno, I'm going overseas and I might not have access to internet. I'm not bringin my laptop either. I understand a "disaster" might happen (but just because I'm gone?), but I am not sure if I will have access to the internet.
You're welcome :) .I know from this, you really mean "away from Wikipedia for some time" . I have a couple of hints for you when you are planning to be away from Wikipedia (you can save it for future vacation season, or exams, and so on), if you wish you can Post this template in your user's page to warn other users that you are going to be away.
If you are going to be away for short time, and you know when you are going return. You can write this template at the top of your User's page (for example):
{{wikibreak|[[User:Good friend100|Good friend100]]| on [[August 25]] [[2006]]}} which produces this:
If you are going to be away for long time, and you know when you are going return. You can write this template at the top of your User's page (for example):
{{User:TeckWiz/Wikibreak|[[User:Good friend100|Good friend100]]| [[August 9]] [[2006]]| on [[December 25]] [[2006]]}} which produces this:
If you don't know when you are going to return and it will be a short or long time, you can modify the adove templates and post like this (for example):
For short time:
{{wikibreak|[[User:Good friend100|Good friend100]]| sometime in August}}, which produces this:
If it is overseas, maybe you are going to Korea, if so you can take your photo camera with you and take pictures to be uploaded here :) , just kidding, but if it is a vacation season have fun. I will keep an eye in Korea-related articles and watching if a "disaster" happens. Take care and good luck, Cheers.--HappyApple03:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the tip on the template! I appreciate it a lot. I'm actually going to Europe instead of Korea and its the first time so it will be fun. I also thought about taking photos in Korea but unfortunately I didn't go this year.
I WILL be offline for 2 weeks starting on August 9, 2006. During this time, I will be unavailable for replying questions, comments, etc etc. Good friend10021:02, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss personal issues on personal pages
Don't get drawn into fights on pages like the Liancourt Rocks discussion page. Ask yourself before making an edit whether your change actually contributes to the discussion for improving the article--if not, take it to a personal page. This isn't the first time this has been suggested to you. If you just argue back (and talk about sock puppets, etc., which incidently were on both sides--check the link added right after yours), you will give someone else the opportunity to claim you're doing personal attacks, not helping, etc. Have a little forethought. LactoseTI16:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the move on the Imjin War article (now known as "Hideyoshi's Invasions") is very contributing. It just made the debate heated and it doesn't help. Good friend10017:21, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, then don't confuse me. I thought you were talking about article edits not talk page edits. I refer to talk page edits as "comments". Good friend10017:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Military history WikiProject coordinator election - vote phase!
The Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will select seven coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of eleven candidates. Please vote here by August 26!
Hi, Goodfriend 100 :) ! it is nice to talk to you again. First i want to apologice about the delay in my feedback but i have experienced problems with my network on the day you left me a note in my discussion page and on the following days i prepared to go back to my university routine, although i am not completely away from wikipedia.
It seems you might be in trip right now, so i think you will read this message as soon as you get back home. In your message you are telling me there is a dissaster which have happened at at the page of the Imjin Wars, where users seemed to have moved it to Hideyoshi's invasions of Korea. As you may know this is something i predicted.
My impressions about your problem are the following:
I agree with you about, Imjin Wars sound more accurate than Invasions of Korea, in fact many other Wikipedia sister projects in another languages use the name you proposed. I am still not sure what is the accurate name for this conflict on my mother language but i will find out in a trip to a library to my university to look for this information, But i agree the page should be moved back to Imjin Wars page.
Secondly, i feel, there is some sort of harrassment against you and i think this, because of the problems with pictures you have experienced particulary comming from LactoseTI (the intollerant), i have tracked him and he seems very active in korean related articles and he tried (i dont know why?) to quickly delete (which in wikipedia we know as speedied deletions) a page from a Korean patriot (Gwak Jae-u)and contributions regarding to Korean related articles (see,Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gwak Jae-u) , if you think so, you can contact an advocate which may assist you by solving this issue.
Third, i believe we can take some immediate actions to move this page back as it was, but to do so, we need to get some assistance with an Advocate and find an appropiate argument. Another strategy can be going to a vote for moving the page on Wikipedia:Village pump or Wikipedia:Requests for comment , but all of this actions had to be done as team work. Meanwhile you prepare for your return i will be glad to give you assitance on this. Have a nice trip around Europe, Cheers,--HappyApple05:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed you left this message for Good friend100, and thought I might respond:
"Imjin Wars" might sound more accurate, but is wrong by Wikipedia naming conventions (not just me, but a clear consensus noticed this)
I never harrassed anyone. The fact is the articles are never going to get rated highly if they have unclear or "bad" images on them. You should be more grateful that someone is helping clean these up, not discouraging them.
The only "speedying" I did the page on Gwak Jae-u was a speedy keep. I had suggested it for deletion/merge into other articles--and others shared my concerns through their comments--but once they were addressed, I was able to do a speedy keep. It was never tagged for speedy deletion.
Hi, Goodfriend100 how are you?, had you a nice trip to europe?, i hope so.
Well, first-
welcome back onboard to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia experience! :)
Second; i know you are aware there is an ongoing discussion (again) on whether to delete the game section on Hwacha article and i think the other user (user:OrbitOne) is quite exagerating things and missunderstanding Wikipedia policies on his favor. Would you like to leave your comments on the vote? , i would appreciate your soon response, Welcome back again and Cheers, --HappyApple10:52, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi again! I checked up on the hwacha article. I agree that Orbitone may be coming out strongly but we need to compromise. I hope we can keep the popular cuture section while keeping it at a brief level. Good friend10013:10, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue VI - August 2006
The August 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
Well, the problem with game links being on Hwacha is I think such sections in general could be wiki-advertisement. But this is not true with all gaming links, so as a general rule, I delete gaming links that are not solidly relevant to an article. Although I agree, a single well writen sentence with a single link does not hurt the article, game developers who keep adding their games to what becomes a long list does hurt the article. So as a hard and fast rule of thumb, I remove them. In many cases though, removing the game references improves the article, reducing its total size and improving readability. I think removing the section in this case will help the article's readability. If not deleting the section, it should atleast be trimmed back to one example and an explanation as to why it is relevant. --OrbitOne[Talk|Babel]13:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I am strongly against such references in most cases, yes, and think such references should be made on the articles own page, saying the game features the weapon instead of saying on the weapons page which games feature the weapon. Few people who will read the article are looking for information about how it is featured in games. But I am willing to accept a short reference if it includes an explanation as to why it is relevant. Otherwise, I feel the information is most relevant on the games own article, where a person looking for information on a weapon they saw in the game will more likely look for it. --OrbitOne[Talk|Babel]13:39, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hwacha assitance
Hi Goodfriend100, i am very glad you have left your comments on Hwacha's talk page. In fact i appreciate very much you are being positive about mention games as part of pop culture trive, if just keep at a minor level, which in fact i am in favor to.
Talking about numbers the section in question representes only about 4.68% (less then five percent) of the whole article and just summarizes an example where Hwachas appeared and how they were used, as an artillery piece in many cases. In my opinion this should be expanded a little bit not only games, in fact movies and books but unfortunatelly i haven't found this information. If you can it would be really helpful.
Talking about OrbitOne's arguments regarding to readability i think they really lack of sense, (considering the section in question is less then 5%!!) reader would identify Hwacha on many aspects not only because it is an artillery piece or antipersonel weapon, also as for its impact on korean culture as well, and i think popular culture and games are part of it.
It seems because of the weeks so far, this apparent easy-to-solve dispute will move into a more professional or formal level, as OrbitOne's wishes to. So talking from editor-to-editor, i would appreciate you can keep assisting me on this article, because i feel we can work together to make a great article, even much better than Samurai. I advice you keep "Hwacha" under "watch page" (if you haven't done so far). Thank you again, and i hope to see your soon response, Cheers!, :) HappyApple18:07, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Probably the biggest reason why the popular culture section should be kept is because the hwacha was a significant step in Korean engineering. Not only that, it helped repel the Imjin War. It is one the most symbolic items in Korean history. Good friend10018:13, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Amen, Goodfriend, Amen :) --HappyApple 18:20, 27 August 2006 (UTC). (By the way are you catholic? if in any case you arent, no offence, just an expression ). For me, i feel fascinated about this weapon in particular the skill of Korean engineers was so ahead of their time, to develop so operational and fully tactical weapon which obviously was much better compared to heavyweight cannons used in the west.--HappyApple18:20, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh i see, i have read to your user's page it is informative but it doesn't say about your religion?, do you have one? I think it is positivism ~^^, because of your preferences towards to mathematics. I am not good at them but i am very glad to know someone who likes them, if you need further assitance on chemistry (in any topic from general chemistry to analytical chemistry) feel free to ask me a question about it and i would be glad to assist you on it.
As an advice from advoce i've contacted, he suggests editors involved on the dispute should take one week off' to think on the posible and plausible-to-all solutions which would solve informally the dispute. In other words, if we take a week off from today 'till next Monday from editing hwacha's talk page and the article would be better because we can think on better arguments to solve this dispute.
So, as a matter of fact i will take one week off from editing the article and as you are assiting me on the article i would advice you do too, we can be reasonable and maybe we can solve this dispute soonly.
Not sure why you left a notice on my page... perhaps you'd better get all the facts before you leave such questionable advice. Nihonjoe noticed that Taeguk was warring with one of my anti-vandalism scripts, since he was so intent on constantly vandalizing Wikipedia. I turned off the script so he could be properly blocked and have his page restored, as well as to help him stop vandalizing. Surely, you're not suggesting to leave vandals continue to break all rules? —LactoseTIT18:14, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please stay out of this, Good friend100. This was already taken care of more than a week ago, so there's no reason for you to be posting comments about a matter which has already been settled. ···日本穣? · TalktoNihonjoe18:56, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"Please stay out of this" OK!!! I will stay out of this is since it looks like a problem off in your own little world with Taeguk Warrior. Just trying to help so if you don't need it help yourself. Good friend10001:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Award
The Barnstar of Good Humor
The Barnstar of Good Humor is awarded to User:Good friend100, a light-spirited Wikipedian who, by their unshakable good humor, consistently and reliably lightens the mood, and defuses potentially harsh conflicts. By your efforts, the Wikipedia is generally a better place. I make this award anonymously to represent that the efforts of users such as yourself are of an undeniable usefulness to the Wikipedia as a whole and are appreciated by the community at large. "Well done, Good friend100"
You said the Korean articles are in bad shape because nobody edits them--I improved them a lot by removing the images with copyright problems, improving them so they are much closer to feature article status--they never would get there with bad images. I'm glad you think I did it consistently and with enough energy like it was my job.
English does not necessarily equal the United States... but English Wikipedia does revolve around English speakers, so it's important to stick to the concepts and phrases they are most likely to use. I'm not sure what you're complaining about--there are redirects getting them to the page if they search for your "obscure" term. Some foreign terms have made it into English, but that doesn't mean all foreign words are suddenly part of the English lexicon--the idea is we stick to what people know. By your own admission, "Imjin War" is "hardly used at all"--that means it's not a very good main title.
Your example of tome is a good one. Tome and book are both words describing similar things--but which would you choose for the main title of the article? Oei Invasion is different because people learn that term, not some other term.
I regret that you are disillusioned--but I'm even more disappointed that you'd let the fact that the fact that your pet name doesn't happen to be the main title stop you from wanting to edit at all! Please, stick with it--I know you can make some more good contributions if you keep trying. —LactoseTIT02:05, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please tone it down; I meant no offense, and I really believe you are valuable to have working on this. Don't try to find a word or two you can take out of context--instead, read the whole idea and absorb it. —LactoseTIT13:37, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
While it's good to be enthusiastic about improving the encyclopedia, your threat of beginning a revert war on the "Hideyoshi's invasions of Korea" article is not acceptable behavior here. Should you follow through on your threat, you will be blocked from participating on WIkipedia. Trying to force your opinion on others by threatening to engage in such tactics is not compatible with the official policies to assume good faith and to be civil. Please continue to make a concerted effort to resolve any disputes in a civil manner, especially as it seems that most of the other editors working on the article have begun coming around to a consensus. Thank you. ···日本穣? · TalktoNihonjoe07:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What threat? Did I make a threat to hurt somebody? So you think my rejection of the move is a threat?
I strongly disagree with the move and it is a persuasion which the others just avoid and instead argue with google searches. "Force my opinion"? The other editors don't even respond to what Wikimachine is giving to them on a silver plate. Wikimachine is literally waving a red flag in their face with all that stuff.
And how it is a consensus if a couple editors don't agree with it? And are you trying to isolate Wikimachine and I just because we don't "listen"? I disagree with the move and I am not going to explain why the move is false because I have already repeated myself at least 5 times and Wikimachine has already summarized the argument at least 2-3 times.
Can I ask what your opinion is on the article because you took the tag off the article and it was immediately changed to "Hideyoshi's Invasions of Korea". That didn't help because the article is fine the way it is. Hideyoshi's invasions of Korea should be used in the article and used as a description, or it can be stated as another name.
The other side complained first about the POVness of the name "Imjin War" and how it isn't an English word. Actually, the name is both an english word and NPOV. Right now they are insisting "Hideyoshi's" because it is more common, by definition of google. But their approach is inaccurate because there are other sources as well. Good friend10012:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please refrain from making meaningless or superfluous changes to Wikipedia articles.
[Here],
[here],
[here],
and [here] you made meaningless changes to put Korea at the top of talk page banners. This kind of insignificant change is midly disruptive to users who are watching those pages. Please continue to edit and add content, but refrain from meaningless changes. Thank you! —LactoseTIT20:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As a user mentioned some time before, do you really consider it civil to keep giving warnings on negligible things? You seem to jump at every chance to criticize and you patronize people by giving them wikilinks and dull, impersonal advice. Is this what you call constructive criticism? KiteString04:47, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Why I support Hideyoshi's invasions of Korea
(Response to your message on my talk page.) First, please don't forget that Korea was invaded and many, many were killed in the invasions. I know the image is unpleasant, but it's important to remember it the way it happened (as much as we can--so much history from that time is permanently lost). Second, Hideyoshi deserves the largest share of blame (or credit, I suppose) for the invasions. I think this is why most books do actually refer to it this way, and this is why most know it by this name. You can't have the heroes without having the troubles. On the surface, you might think people are arguing for a Japanese point of view title, but in reality they are actually painting the picture of what happened--and they are not trying to avoid saying that it was an outright invasion by Hideyoshi. When you actually have people admitting this is the most common name of the event, I don't see why you are trying to obscure the title. All too often (rightly or wrongly) Japanese are accused of whitewashing the truth with pretty words, but this time it seems we are doing it for them. Part of what makes me proud of Korean history is how people overcame the obstacles to become, for the most part, a respectable nation today.
Good friend100, I never called you a biggot--you were advocating fighting "fire with fire." You were basically suggesting to combat POV edits with POV edits. This clearly is not in the spirit of Wikipedia and isn't going to work. Komdori13:58, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I understand your reason. But, even if Hideyoshi's deserves almost all the blame, it is already clear that the point is a "Japan invade Korea", not neccesarily Hideyoshi. I still disagree with "Hideyoshi's Invasions of Korea". It is POV, not a title but a description, and I just noticed that the title itself has a typo. "Invasions" should be capitalized, not "invasions". "Of" should be kept the way it is. Good friend10001:27, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think Hideyoshi belongs in the title since he was, in fact, the main character. I think it become very obvious to anyone who reads the article that Japan and Korea were involved--it's in the first sentence. Incidently, there is no typo--"invasions" was initially capitalized and then the consensus was to change it to a lowercase "i." Komdori14:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
A man doesn't automatically become a main charecter of a war if he starts it. And whats so great about Hideyoshi? So what if he rose in rank and so what if he united Japan? He simply waved his hand for the assault and thats it. As I said, he didn't even go to Korea. His plan of conquest was just a pet plan and it wasn't realistic.
Hideyoshi is NOT the main charecter! What did he do? He didn't alter the course of the war, nor did he fight in the war. Imjin War is the best and most clear option. I don't understand why when there already is a perfectly fine title to use, somebody decides to make things ugly. Good friend10022:06, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comments on my talk page
You mentioned on my talk page that I, "think all [my] edits and comments are right while others don't." I acknowledge many don't realize the edits are right--that's what's great about Wikipedia. For example, when you didn't seem to know that Hideyoshi had ordered the withdraw (you mentioned this several times and reverted the change repeatedly) I added an easy-to-find reference. In this way, the articles grow in referencs and accuracy, and help reduce the gap between those who have a wealth of knowledge and those who have little. It's important to clear up a lot of historical misconceptions based on legend or propaganda--some of these things may never be settled completely, but by sticking to sourced facts we can make up our own minds.
You also said, "[W]hen you make comments that are not nice, you think that they are perfectly fine and always respond 'I didn't hurt your feelings'. How do you know what the other person thinks?" As far as I know, I've never presumed to tell anyone how they felt. Please don't mischaracterize my actions.
Certainly, some people get offended when their idea is shown to be wrong, or that in such a situation someone didn't coddle them a bit more. It's hard because such efforts are oftentimes largely wasted--being too nice when telling someone they're wrong can be seen as being sarcastic or "looking down" to them. It's why we have the good faith and civility policies--if someone puts something incorrect in the article, no big deal--in most cases it's probably just a simple mistake they made. I don't think any more deeply than that about their motivations (usually) and just help them fix it. If I ever make an incorrect change, I hope someone would act the same way. —LactoseTIT16:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
People don't get offended just because their idea is wrong. Your tone isnt great either. I always feel looked down from you because of that archived argumnent with your insulting words that gave the impression that you look down on me just because I'm a "freshman" and I should be chastised by somebody older, more wise, and more knowledgeable. I don't care if you are 10 years older then me. And the problem is, you don't think you did anything wrong.
As I mentioned, you can never please everyone with tone. Coddling too much can leave some feeling patronized, not at all can leave them feeling like you are being harsh, etc. I repeatedly mentioned that I never meant anything as "chastisement." Don't hold grudges for old notices/warnings, just move on. I think I did little real wrong--I would have toned it down a bit if I had it to do over again, but the basic message would have been the same. —LactoseTIT11:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I know we've had (and continue to have) some disagreements, but I'd like to help with your project, too, if I could (though I admit I know not a whole lot about many of the topics). I added a link for Lotte; I think perhaps you'd still like to extend this article? —LactoseTIT03:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Good friend100: Thanks for your hard work on the WikiProject Korea template. I noticed that you had used this image of a Silla Crown [4] and I was wondering if you might change it to any other example of a Silla Crown or any other image found here at Wikipedia Commons because they have better licenses: [5]. The reason why I ask is because the image that you used is under a fair use license and while most European crown images in other Wikipedia articles are under the same license, I was thinking of deleting the image you used because now that there are many other images of Korean crowns available we can use those better licensed images (although, unfortunately, none have the visual impact of the image you used). If you wanted any suggestions, how about any of the Baekje Crowns, or the Baekje incense burner here:[6], or the Seokgruam Buddha [7]. Have a good wikibreak and thanks for your time. Tortfeasor04:47, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding Dokdo article, I changed the introduction to look like that of Senkaku islands article. Some Japanese editors insist on using the word 'control' over 'administer' and making the first sentence of the article "Dokdo is one of the several terms that refer to .. " instead of "Dokdo is a group of ...". Last time I did that was about a year ago, and a flock of Japanese editors (i think about 5-6) who were active in Japwiki (but not Engwiki) came over to Engwiki to constantly revert. Seems doubly hypocritic to me that some would insist on different standards on "disputed" islands. Just wanted to hear your opinion. Deiaemeth05:38, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In case you haven't suspected, it was a joke. My user page was created to make a point. At varioius points at one time or another, I have been accused of either being a Chinese nationalist, anti-China and pro-Hong Kong independence, an imperialist, a nationalist revisionist, and various other things. The accusation that the Chinatowns were being used to secretly colonize North America was made by someone else (discussion linked in that userbox), not by me. But all those userboxes are there to make a point. Since I have at one point or another been accused of being in favor of some agenda or another, I thought having userboxes endorsing and supporting all those accusations would show how silly they are. The other point I wanted to show was this: despite whatever my personal or political opinions may be, my edits shouldn't be judged by my supposed agenda, but on their own merit, by whether or not they're factually accurate, by whether or not they're verifiable by sources, whether or not they try to push one viewpoint over another, etc. I don't see how I'm being rude to anyone, since the userpage is mine. Only people who are interested in me would click my userpage, and I'm not forcing anyone to do that. --Yuje05:49, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The accuracy tag on the front page should be enough for those with a sense of humor. I don't agree that controversial opinions shouldn't be allowed on userpages. Many userpages involve statements of cultural affiliation or political opinion, no reason why only politically correct ones should be allowed and others banned. If I understand policy correctly, users should edit articles in an unbiased and NPOV manner, but are perfectly free to express their (real or fictional) opinions in their own talk pages. --Yuje23:08, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I understand. Anyone is free to opinion what they think. I am just commenting how others might give a negative impression towards you. Good friend10001:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
imjin war
Hello Mr. Stifle,
The Imjin War has been moved to "Hideyoshi's Invasions of Korea" a couple months ago when another admin suddenly took the move tag off. Could you please take a look again at the discussions? The other side doesn't seem to be listening to my argument but I believe that Imjin War should be used because I have several strong points.
The other side says Imjin War is not an English word, it is not commonly used, and that it is POV. Please take a look at this bogged down argument. It is heavily setting back the progress of the article. thank you. Good friend10001:59, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
WikiProject Military history Newsletter - Issue VII - September 2006
The September 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
Please stop posting garbage on closed RFCU entries
Your comment on the main page of the RFCU was already deleted, and now you've posted nonsense on the talk page for the same RFCU. Please stop, especially as you should know better than to do things like that given the time you've been active here. ···日本穣? · TalktoNihonjoe22:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, I'm just trying to help. Are you angry that LactoseTI might be a sockpuppeteer? I posted one comment because I have been observing the case for a while. Good friend10022:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Posting question marks is hardly helping, and I don't care one way or the other if someone turns out to be a sock or a puppeteer (though it would be sad given the number of good, non-controversial edits he's made). My request was simply for you to stop posting garbage. There's no need to argue about anything else as it's irrelevant. ···日本穣? · TalktoNihonjoe23:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
garbage? Offensive language? Out there, there are editors who constantly vandalize and reedit information from the Japan article regarding Baekje, etc. Are those vandalizers punished at all? If you think that I am not helping properly, thats not true.
Please check the Dokdo article, which has now been moved to Takeshima, Shimane by a new user who has not actively participated in the discussion. Please revert the move and post a move block on there. It is becoming very frustrating to see anoymous editors comments that are racial and exxagerated, or altogether false. It is angry to see that this article is being vandalized and picked around with while no admins are helping. The Dokdo article must be reverted back to its original position. Good friend10023:13, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please stay on topic
Please don't post messages on pages that are completely irrelevant to the topic of the page. It can be seen as spam and Wikipedia regards adding spam to articles or talk pages as a form of vandalism. Thank you.
Again, please at least try to stay on topic; posting about how I delete images, or how you don't understand the arguments on an unrelated talk page article hardly contributes to the discussion of removal of copyrighted text (see [[8]]). Unless you have something to contribute to the topic at hand, just keep your unrelated comments in a different section, or post them to my talk page where I'll gladly respond. —LactoseTIT15:14, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, so you're now going to accuse me of vandalism and then post some tag onto my page? My first goal on Wikipedia is to move an article to Imjin War. I will stay on topic, sorry if there is a bother. Good friend10012:52, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
To that end, keep your comments on the talk page of Hideyoshi's invasions of Korea, one of our talk pages, etc. Don't go on someone else's talk page when discussing a completely different topic and push your agenda. This is exactly why I posted the notice here. —LactoseTIT14:44, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Print Screen
In response to your query on how to use print screen--are you in Windows or some other OS? If you are in Windows, Ctrl-Print Scrn and Alt-Print Scrn will give you two different effects. Both put an image from the screen into the clipboard--one does the full screen, the other the currently selected window. From there, you can paste into Photoshop or whatever editing program you care to use. Hope this helps; let me know if you need more details or if you need instructions for a different operating system. —LactoseTIT14:46, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Where can I find the clipboard? After I press "prnt scrn", where do I go to find the image? Thanks, I'm not so hot with advanced buttons on my laptop. Good friend10014:49, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In Windows, the clipboard is just a "common area" between programs. To access it, inside a paint program, Word, etc., just hit Edit->Paste (the shortcut is usually Ctrl-V). If you have trouble post again; laptops are often a little trickier because the keyboard is compressed/characters share the same key. —LactoseTIT17:11, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I give this barnstar to Good friend100 for his endless and tireless contributions and persistent efforts to improve Korea-related articles. =KiteString= 15:21, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi!
Hi, I'm General Tiger. I've looked over your articles, and have to admit that you did an excellent job! I'm currently living in Korea, so if you want to ask me stuff, be free to talk in my talk page.
Oh, I've already joined.
General Tiger (talk • contribs) I'm a extreme Korean nationalist, but also rational. I currently live in Korea, and I'll look over Korean articles. Also, I'll be backing up the Korean nationalist view of history (although in a NPOV way) Currently gathering maps for Gando (from wikiptoject korea)
yo sup. 만나서 방갑습니다. 몃학년이세요? 난 현제 고2가 됬습니다. i live in ATL. nice meeting you. i guess you're very interested in 조선 or 임진외란 in particular. 난 그레도 삼국시대와 발해.. 그 부분들이 좋읍니다. 광개토 대왕, 주몽. u get the idea. anyways, thanks for all of ur contributions for the increase of knowledge of our proud nation. I look forward to reading ur edits. --Kprideboi20:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Due to the move taking place, I'm assuming that the issue is completed. I'm closing the case; I hope I did a good job. If you have any feedback on how I did, I'd be very grateful for it. Thank you. —Xyrael / 20:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just leaving this note for you cause I'm tired of the revert wars and would like more input from other people to prevent revert wars.
Would you please look at this:
This version is the only one allowed to stand in the Japan Kofun period and Kofun section, but if you actually read the references this is not exactly accurate. I'm so tired of the lop-sided POV. If you read the actual reference some of the people misinterperted it and if you look at additional references you can see counter arguements, but that keeps getting deleted:
This reference which is used in the Kofun sit definately states that Koreans think Gaya influenced Japan in the Keyhole tombs. Someone keeps deleteing that sentence if I put it in, even though the reference they provided is the source of that statement.
Whether keyhole Kofun in Gaya was for local chieftain influenced by Japanese culture or for immigrated Japanese aristocrat is also argued. Korea doesn't want to recognize the culture inflows from Japan to Korea in the ancient times. But it can't be denied that the burial mounds with square fronts and round backs in the Korean Peninsura were formed strongly affected by Japan.
My modifications which keep getting reverted for POV, I think it is more neutral or at least summarizes the actual reference better:
Whether keyhole Kofun in Gaya was for local chieftain influenced by Japanese culture or for immigrated Japanese aristocrat or flow of culture from Gaya to Japan is also argued. Korea doesn't want to recognize the culture inflows from Japan to Korea in the ancient times. But it can't be denied that the burial mounds with square fronts and round backs in the Korean Peninsura were formed strongly affected by Japan. Similarly Japan dislikes adding more cultural inflow from Korea to Japan's ancient history. This lead to Japan refusing to open the tombs after a couple of the tombs they opened had definate Korean artifacts in them. Horse shaped artifacts and Korean style pottery were initially excuvated, then the Imperial family stated the tombs will not be disturbed because they are sacred to our people. No further excuvation has been done on these tombs leading many to speculate and both sides insist on their version of theory.[1]
Here is another weird interpertation, and if I bring in counter arguements with references it is deleted. Look at this counter arguement reference, why do people keep deleteing it.
You can see this current verion is definately biased
There are reasons why you can't find certain Japanese references in english cause most historians have nullified or discredited those references for lack of evidence or confusion in interpertation. But someone keeps using these Japanese references and will delete other references that counter their arguements.
Here is my version, I thought this was more neutral than the current one:
According to the Book of Song, of the Liu Song Dynasty,
the Chinese emperor appointed his king of Yamato to also be ruler of Silla, Baekje, and the Gaya confederacy.[2] According to the Book of Sui, Silla and Baekje needed the power of Yamato Japan.[3] According to the Samguk Sagi (Chronicles of the Three Kingdoms), Baekje and Silla sent their princes as hostages to the Yamato court to ensure military support; King Asin of Baekje sent his son Jeonji in 397[4] and King Silseong of Silla sent his son Misaheun in 402.[5] Baekje's influence on Japanese culture has been a contentious issue in contemporary relations between South Korea and Japan. The exact nature of the relationship is always investigated. The above interpretations are not exactly accurate because ancient Chinese writing are difficult to deciper. People do not know when a sentence ends and where the puncutation such as commas are suppose to be. Even more confusing is one character can have multiple meaning depending on the context. The same sentence in the Book of Song can be translated to Yamato being an colony of Baekje's expansion efforts.[6] Then if this sentence structure is followed, the Book of Sui would show that Koreans were already the rulers of Yamato. Another point of arguement for contemporary historians is whether the Silla and Baekje princes were hostages or guest teacher who came to transmit culture. In addition, the Korean rulers were always put ahead of Japanese rulers, but below the Chinese rulers in all the text, leading people to see this order as the confucian rank. This situation has lead to both nations to further investigate the situation.
I'm not as jumpy on reverts on these theories as I am with the definate misrepresentation reverts in the Japanese War Crime section and WWII/Korea section. Most of my info are from the East Asian studies courses I took and I try not to be POV. I'm only trying to correct the current POV. Any ways I hope you can provide more input.4.23.83.10010:19, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with your edits and the sources you have (which by far are the best I've seen. I have never seen such detailed books on the history of Korea by English authors).
Probably the best way to solve this problem would be to take your case to an admin. Present your case like above and give your sources that the information is correct.
I understand that it is frustrating that editors at the Japan and japan related articles remove information about Korea all the time. I can see it. If you keep editing the article, they will keep reverting it so, as I said, request support for your case.
I'm not a master of Japanese history, but I do know that Baekje and Korea itself has greatly influenced Japan, its culture and language. That cannot be denied and the Japan article must have that information whether Japanese editors like it or not. Good friend10019:55, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Take your information and links to the Kofun period talk page and argue there as well. Make sure they know why it is not POV. All the editors that reverted your edits say that you are POV. How is a fact POV? =) Good friend10019:58, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
반갑습니다, 無文_멘입니다...
만나서 반갑습니다, 굳 프렌드씨.
Thank you for your greeting. I can do prehistory ok, but as for more recent times, uh...I can always try to help. ^^
Mumun02:44, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
굳 프렌드씨 ~~ 인사 잘 받았습니다. I was impressed with the 임진왜란 stuff on which you've been working. As you are probably aware, the mission of the 국립진주박물관 [10] changed several years back and it is now dedicated exclusively to Japanese invasions. The website pursues a modern museological approach and there are little things to do and check there. One fun thing is that they have prepared 임진왜란 'factlets' on a daily basis in the '임진왜란의 오늘' section.
Mumun10:22, 21 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
인사차
님께서 Kprideboi에게 보낸 제 인사에 답글단거보고 왔어요...
그런데 어느나라 분이신지요..^^ 정말 헷갈립니다.
The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue VIII - October 2006
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue VIII - October 2006
The October 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
Hey Hairwizard I haven't had much time editing Wikipedia. I have been paying attention mostly to the Dokdo article for vandalizers and on Three Kingdoms of Korea related articles in the time I've spent on Wikipedia. Good friend10020:14, 18 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Image copyright problem with Image:Koreanguerillas1910.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Koreanguerillas1910.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.
For more information on using images, see the following pages:
There's currently a debate raging in the Goryeo section. You are quite active in Korean history threads and would probably be able to contribute greatly to the discussion in hopes of resolution. Thank you! justinpak 9:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I think we should bring comfort women into the more high-priority categories of Wikiproject Korea. It's a very significant topic and the article needs improvement. =KiteString= 04:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, comfort women is a very sensitive article. You do not have to ask me if it should be in the high priority list. If you believe so, put it up there so others can take a look and help. Do freely as you wish, just so long as it isn't vandalism. =) Good friend10000:32, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Welcome to WikiProject Germany
Welcome, Good friend100, to the WikiProject Germany! Please direct any questions about the project to its talk page. If you create new articles on Germany-related topics, please list them at our announcement page and tag their talk page with our project template {{WikiProject Germany}}.
A few features that you might find helpful:
The project's Navigation box points to most of the pages in the project that might be of use to you.
Most of the important discussions related to the project take place on the project's main talk page; you may find it useful to watchlist it.
We've developed a number of guidelines for names, titles, and other things to standardize our articles and make interlinking easier that you may find useful.
Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character ",".
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me or any of the more experienced members of the project, and we'll be very happy to help you. Again, welcome, and thank you for joining this project! Kusma(討論)16:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
(copied over your response from the Template) What are you looking for? I would suggest you start looking in Category:Science and technology in Germany and its subcategories and check out if there is anything you feel like improving. Wikipedia's coverage is usually quite good already, but if I can think of technological things that we don't have articles about, I will list it in the project's To do template. Happy editing, Kusma(討論)18:42, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue IX - November 2006
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seeing you like PC Games do you play Final Fantasy 11 or Guild Wars? IMO im not sure this is the proper place to ask but oh well. anyway happy editing.
Thanks a lot! That really made my day. :-) Thank you very much for your own efforts, and especially for putting WikiProject Korea together.
By the way, as you may have noticed I've more or less come around to your idea that the Portal and noticeboard should be integrated as closely as possible with WikiProject Korea. Not sure how best to do that, though. Any ideas? Cheers, -- Visviva15:50, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This message delivered: 04:15, 18 December 2006 (UTC).
Dokdo Article
Please do me a favor and give me a yell if there is another vote in terms of moving this article (as some have recently tried to move it to Liancourt Rocks again). Davidpdx12:59, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I need Information for editing guideline
There is a user called User:Opp2 in Talk:Dokdo. He seems to be bias, and many editors in Wikipedia notice the issue. He claims that he will "delete the description about Japanese contradiction and terra nullius for NPOV and clearing the fabrication if no one can confirm a Japanese government's original source." I don't think this is a good idea, and I am afraid that Dokdo article will be edited in a wrong biased way, especially without coordination between editors. So I told him several times that he is bias and he doesn't simply have enough witness to simply support his argument. He is being really tough to protect himself against criticism from a lot of opposing editors. He demands for wikipedia editing guideline. The quote by this user: "Do you say that the lie and POV have to leave at Wikipedia? Is that written in the guideline? Please teach where of the guideline to be being written."
The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue X - December 2006
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A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Toyotomi Hideyoshi, and indicate whether you agree or refuse to mediate. If you are unfamiliar with mediation, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. There are only seven days for everyone to agree, so please check as soon as possible.
I dunno. My family goes to Korea almost every summer and I'm waiting until I can go to the national museum of Korea and take pictures of the drawings of Imjin War battles, Korean weapons, etc. I thought doing that was ok since I took the image myself. I think you are right because its one of many many images depicting the same thing, which, in this case is the HSR 350x. I think the image is fine for fair use. Good friend10023:32, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I do support that the Turtle Ship was the first ironclad in the world. The problem is how people define "ironclad". I'm not against Western culture or its ideals though but I will support keeping a balance between Western and Eastern emphasis. Good friend10002:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XI - January 2007
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The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are looking to elect seven coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by February 11!
The Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting seven coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of sixteen candidates. Please vote here by February 25!
독도에 대해서 지금 치혈한 싸움이 진행되고 있지요. 님은 어떤쪽을 선택할것입니까?
같이 더욱 더 독도가 우리의 것이라는걸 알려줍시다. 당연히 독도는 한국것이지요. 원래 독도는 수처년 전부터 우리나라의 땅이였습니다. 그런데, 일본사람들이 1990년대쯤 우리나라를 식민지로 만들었지요. 그때, 일본이 우리의땅인 독도도 같이 빼어갔답니다.
안녕하세요, 다시 뵜습니다. 저는 위키백과를 알은지 겨우 일년도 채 넘지 않았습니다. 그래서, 님께 많을 가르침을 부탁드립니다. 감사합니다. 아참, 그리고, 제 이름은 윤일하 (尹一荷) 입니다. 저번에 제 토크페이지에 유닐하라고 불러서요... 햐튼, 우리같이 좋은사이가 됬으면 합니다. 같이 독도와 우리나라의 역사를 날리자고요!
안녕하십니까. 한국 Wikipedia에서 활동중인, 한국 토박이(=Native) "크래니져('Cranezyer' in English)"입니다. 어쩌다가 독도 문서까지 보고, 님을 뵈는 일까지 생겼네요... 하하하하하하하... 그보다, 언제부터 미국에서 사시게 되었는지요? 맞춤법이 과거의 맞춤법에 미국식 방언의 형태가 들어간 것 처럼 보여서 말이지요. 아무튼, 이국의 동포를 보는 마음으로써 반갑습니다.
The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XII - February 2007
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Dear uploader: The media file you uploaded as Image:Battleofnoryang.jpg has been listed for speedy deletion because you selected a copyright license type implying some type of restricted use, such as for non-commercial use only, or for educational use only or for use on Wikipedia by permission. While it might seem reasonable to assume that such files can be freely used on Wikipedia, a non-profit website, this is in fact not the case. Please do not upload any more files with these restrictions on them, because content on Wikipedia needs to be compatible with the GNU Free Documentation License, which allows anyone to use it for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial.
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If you created this media file and want to use it on Wikipedia, you may re-upload it (or amend the image description if it has not yet been deleted) and use the license {{GFDL-self}} to license it under the GFDL, or {{cc-by-sa-2.5}} to license it under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike license, or use {{PD-self}} to release it into the public domain.
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{blacklisted link removed} please sign the online petition to the Japanese government, regarding the comfort women issue. thanks. Odst08:03, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Battle of Noryang
Goodfriend, I won't spend a ton of time editing "The Battle" section of this article since I'm still in the process of significantly reworking it. If you want to make significant changes after I'm done, please discuss it with me on my page. Thanks. WangKon93601:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please change the licensing template {{PD-self}} to something compatible to the GFDL. As I have suggested, {{GFDL-retouched}} is a suitable license. As for attribution, please provide the source (URL) and the author of the original image. --Kusunose02:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
엔앨류가 아무리 저랑 다르다는 이유로 저를 고립시키려고 합니다.(harass the me.) 제 놈도 중국 기록 중심으로 글쓰면서 제가 한국 기록 중심으로 글쓰면 자꾸 비난하네요... 영어를 잘 못해서 그러니 좀 도와 주십시오. I entreat this favor of you. Korea history (Talk) 13:26, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This message delivered: 08:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
Hi!
Hey Good friend100, I was surprised by your comments @ Talk:Goguryeo. I was just exaggerating a bit when I said that my high school was better than most colleges. No way, but I was really pissed when Nlu was saying that I wasn't @ college & therefore not as qualified as he.
And all that weird stuffs I say, like "turn links", "risk of impact", "academia", etc... they're really simple words that philosophical writers made up (& in debate rounds, we have to read what they write). Usually you'd assume that if the words sound unfamiliar or complex, then they must have really deep meaning. If you're talking about rocketry, that might be true, but here no.
I have tagged the image with {{nsd}} again as there's no information about the author of the painting yet. In addition, on flickr, making a picture public does not mean releasing it into the public domain. See FAQ. It just means everyone can see the picture. According to the picture's page, the author reserves all rights. --Kusunose03:06, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unspecified source for Image:Japaneseinvasionsirregular.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Japaneseinvasionsirregular.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 18:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Kusunose18:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unspecified source for Image:Kimshimin.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Kimshimin.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 18:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Kusunose18:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unspecified source for Image:Battleoftadaejin.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Battleoftadaejin.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 18:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Kusunose18:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unspecified source for Image:Koreancannon.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Koreancannon.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 18:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Kusunose18:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unspecified source for Image:Battleofhansan.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Battleofhansan.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 18:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Kusunose18:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unspecified source for Image:Battleofhaengju.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Battleofhaengju.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 18:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Kusunose18:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unspecified source for Image:Battleofnoryang.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Battleofnoryang.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 18:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Kusunose18:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I got around 8~10 different refs on the topic from a college library that I happened to visit!
You know all those academic journal websites where you have to pay special fees to have access to?
I had access to all of them!
So, let's change our objective from the Noryang Daechup to Japanese invasions of Korea! (I'm almost done reviewing Sakhalin Koreans). (Wikimachine16:30, 25 March 2007 (UTC))[reply]
Thats great if you have access to college' material. I'm currently adding images and editing grammer problems in the article. If you check the peer review at the talk page, unfortunately I am not getting too much out of it, but a warning to make sure it is NPOV. As for NPOV, the article is definitely stable so I am sure we are good on that. Good friend10016:33, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Goodfriend100 its been long time since contact. I have seen your recent edit in Hwacha and i am glad to see a picture of the siege weapon firing its projectiles, however i advise you to be careful on adding this kind of pictures because i tried also do the same but some other editors deleted the same imaging arguing it was not covered by the fair use policy so, wish you good luck on that.
By the way you stated in the article that the coriolis effect does not affect the projectiles. After a brief seach in my University Physics book (Sears, Semansky, Young, Freedman) [[14]], i found that all kinds of projectiles as well are affected by the coriolis effect at higher or lesser extend depending of the range and the position, although the range it is not fairly good affected by the effect on short distances, it rather deviated the projectile from its normal trajectory few inches or centimeters. I am not as good in physics because my major is chemistry however after review in the book i think it has been claryfied. If you have any question about it, or about the picture left me a note, by the way, did you spend a happy new year? I think you call it seol nal right?, i hope so =D.. cheers, --HappyApple17:59, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIII - March 2007
The March 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
Orphaned fair use image (Image:Chinesetextbookofgoguryeoflickr.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Chinesetextbookofgoguryeoflickr.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Kusunose01:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for uploading Image:Japaneseship1592.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 21:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. —LactoseTIT21:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Response/Fair Use Description
I replied on my talk page as well:
There is no point of view issue with these images. Those specific images from that same site were removed before due to similar issues. The websites you grabbed them from are not the creators of the images, and don't have information about the original source or copyright status (that I could see). This kind of copyrighted painting or drawing is not allowed. See the fair use page (an example of things that are not fair use being, "A work of art, not so famous as to be iconic, whose theme happens to be the Spanish Civil War, to illustrate an article on the war.") Images help the articles, but it's important to get free ones. —LactoseTIT13:17, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for uploading Image:Largejar.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.
For more information on using images, see the following pages:
Hey I just wanted to let you know that I tracked down the references in the iron cladding subsection. THere's no controversy whatsoever. All the primary sources are from an article written in 1977 by a SNU prof in the Korea Journal and none of it doubts iron cladding. In fact there is no reference that claims this "controversy". Unless the anti-iron cladding editors come up with references that supports their view, any such claims of doubt and "controversy" is original research and violates WP:A. I've explained this in the talk page and made appropriate changes. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.melonbarmonster20:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've left a final request for references regarding doubts or referenced "controversy" about iron cladding on the turtle boat. It's my hope that those who offer no references will not instigate another revert war. If you have the time and interest, I would appreciate your investigation and commentary on the matter.melonbarmonster17:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Good friend100! In art class, Im planning to draw a scene for the Noryang Daechup - where Admiral Yi dies & his nephew comes to hold him (& later Admiral tells him to keep on drumming).... I remember a pretty neat pic that you probably uploaded long time ago.... was that really you? If not, do you have neat pics related to the war? Anything will help even ones not related to the Noryang Daechup b/c Im creating this really on no photographic reference. Could you send them to my e-mail address (on my user page)? Thanks a lot! : ) (Wikimachine20:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC))[reply]
Orphaned fair use image (Image:Battleofhaengju.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Battleofhaengju.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BigDT23:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We are sending you this message as you are one of the involved parties in this dispute. Recently, a private wiki was set up for private mediation by the Mediation Committee. As noted by the Mediation Committee policy on confidentiality, mediation is confidential, and therefore the Committee has decided in this case to hold all mediation discussions in this case on the private wiki. Therefore, we need you to get an account so the case can proceed.
To request an account on the private Mediation Wiki, please click this link to email Armed Blowfish. Please include "Goguryeo" somewhere in the subject, e.g. "Private wiki account request for Goguryeo mediation", to note that this email has highest priority. If you do not have email enabled on your account and are unable to use the mail feature, please let us know on Armed Blowfish's talk page.
I put the current mediation pages on your Watchlist, but pay attention to the Noticeboard, as there will be more in the future.
Note that you will need to change your password as soon as possible, and then confirm on Wikipedia that you have in fact taken your account, as a security measure.
I have a few problems with your recent edits on the Gaogouli article concerning the Modern Politics section of the Gaogouli/Goguryeo article. Here's what I think:
1) "In historiography , Goguryeo has been conventionally viewed as a Korean state" would be incorrect considering past historical sources do not incorporate modern constructs such as "Korea" into their language use.
2) Assimilating into a "Dynasty" (the Tang in this case) is grammatically incorrect, so I suggest reverting it back to Han Chinese.
3) "A state established in what is now China does not neccessarily mean it is Chinese." - This, I have no particular problems with (spelling error aside - necessarily), but would be more legitimate if you included this as its source.
4) "Simply because more Goguryeo people were assimilated into the Tang than Silla or Balhae does not make it Chinese." - I have a big problem with this argument. For one, this statement brings about a preconceived idea that Bohai is a Korean state - which is heavily disputed, perhaps much more so than Gaogouli itself. The fact that Bohai was a predominantly ethnic Mohe (ancestor of Northeast Chinese Tungusic tribes such as the Nu Zhen/Man Zu) and its territory largely in what is now Heilongjiang province of Northeast China, I really don't see how this has anything to do with migration into the Korean peninsula.
5) "Goguryeo repelled the Sui and Tang Dynasties of China several times before finally being destroyed by a Tang and Silla alliance." - I removed this part because it is a very weak argument considering it could be applied to Silla as well. Assault1123:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not attack other editors. If you continue, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks. Calling someone pitiful because you don't like an edit is hardly going to get things moving forward. Why not try to work in a way that everyone can be happy rather than just push your own idea that others disagree with? Komdori20:55, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unfree image
Fair use rationale for Image:Northport0491.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Northport0491.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Komdori20:59, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is your last warning. If you continue to make personal attacks on other people, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Your response to the last warning was repeating the same violation again. Please don't do this, it's not a productive way to cool down the environment. Komdori22:18, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Since you asked why, as mentioned in the other warning, repeatedly saying someone is "wimpy" and "pathetic" is a personal attack. Komdori22:38, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have every right to argue. We have been going through a ton of discussion and mediation stuff and after everything seems finally ok to lift the lock, we get another frigging edit that creates another uproar in the talk page. I'm sure thats not fair. It certainly seems like the Chinese side is putting everything in their effort to put a foothold on this issue here in Wikipedia. Good friend10022:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You don't have a right to make personal attacks on Wikipedia. Anyway, I made that map. I'm Korean... but before you were calling me a Japanese side and now you are calling me a Chinese side. Finally a little discussion has started on that talk page, if it didn't I was about to request protection myself. It might get the mediation case going along, everyone seems to be dragging their heels. Komdori22:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, I didn't--there was going to be no picture soon, since the other one was unfree. I tried to make one that would show as much information and be as informative as possible for someone trying to know where the heck this thing was. Komdori23:11, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for uploading Image:KBSansiattack.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Komdori 23:32, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't think this image is going to fly on the Goguryeo page. It's no different than trying to use the artwork that you posted before. Maybe on some commentary of the drama? Komdori23:32, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Fair use rationale for Image:Goguryeo cavalry kbs.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Goguryeo cavalry kbs.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Komdori01:02, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Fair use rationale for Image:Goguryeo cavalry kbs cropped.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Goguryeo cavalry kbs cropped.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Komdori01:02, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is the first issue of WikiProject Germany's newsletter. The newsletter is intended to help all members of the project to keep up with new developments and coordinate new collaborative efforts.
Other areas where you can help
Assessment requests: Some open Requests for assessment need to be answered. To see new assessment requests as they come in, you can watchlist the assessment page.
More task forces and subprojects: As this WikiProject covers a very large topic area, it is helpful to add more task forces that focus on specific aspects of Germany. Currently, we have a Mainz task force, a Munich subproject and some joint task forces with other WikiProjects. Any project member is invited to start a new task force. Suggestions for possible topics:
Transportation in Germany
German politics (the political system of Germany and the biographies of its politicians)
Categorization: Uncategorized Germany stubs need to be categorized
Project news
Criteria for B-Class status: The assessment criteria for B-Class have been changed. {{WikiProject Germany}} template now has 5 switches, B-Class-1 through B-Class-5 that correspond to 5 easily checked criteria that an article should meet to be assessed as B-Class. The advantage of this system is that now there is a clear boundary between Start-Class and B-Class articles. Authors of articles that were assessed as Start-Class now get more direct feedback what they should improve to attain a B-Class rating.
All of our B-Class, Start-Class and Stub-Class articles now need to be checked whether they meet any of the B-Class criteria. This is a major effort, and we need your help! If you want to help, but don't know how, please post at the project talkpage.
Cities and municipalities task force
A task force dedicated to creating and improving articles on all German cities and municipalities has been started and is looking for help.
The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIV (April 2007)
The April 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
Hello! We believe enough participants have signed up for us to begin mediation. However, if you have not yet signed up for the MediationWiki, please do so.
Don't take this the wrong way, but could you try to stay on topic on the talk page? I don't see what my personal life or who I know how has anything to do with the edit in question. To answer you, we are employed at the same university but in different departments. If you have a personal question ask me, don't put it on some article's talk page. Komdori03:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Happy Mother's day
Hi Good friend100 it's long time no see, how are you?. I hope all things are going fine to you. It seems you had battled a long way with wikipedia copyright issues, i think that's normal, it also happened to me.
For some reason some people, delete content basing themselves in copyright, but in fact they are letting their personal prejudices and intellectual snobbery to persuade that many other members' contributions are worthless.
That's the point i think- So i wish you do not step back in your quest to put images of korean history, which i believe they are great. I have seen some of them and i really enjoy to see the middle ages korean art, among many other things related to korean culture.
Finnally i wanted to wish you a happy mother's day, i dont know how do you people celebrate this in korean fashion; however i wish you, as a son spend good season with your mom, and don't forget to study very well to become greater than those people who are just trying to let you sometimes down. Have a nice day, and good luck.
"What's a real friend?, someone who give you his or her hand to stand up you from falling down or assisting you in adversity."-anonymous ~! --HappyApple16:43, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Possibly unfree Image:Chinju.jpg
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Chinju.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. Please go to its page for more information if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Komdori20:17, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you think its a way to pin me down with these annoying and dumbshit tags, think again. If you didn't realize already, I stopped paying attention to these images a long time ago.
I might add that I'd prefer to not leave the tags on your page, but it is required by the procedure to remove these images. Komdori20:27, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Then leave it to others to post the tags. And calling the tags as "dumbshit" isn't personal, unless you think putting the tags on is a personal job. Good friend10020:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really mean to cause an argument with you, you're obviously feeling raw over something, but it is really incivil to tell another editor "not to edit" (leave it to others to post the tags). After noticing an image offending Wikipedia policy and tagging it, I'm the one who needs to leave the tag on your page. Please, just calm down and don't let your emotions get the better of you (throwing vulgarities left and right, on your user page, talk page, towards others, me, etc.). It is supposed to be fun. Komdori20:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And for the record, I thought the images you posted were very good. But you had to do little work in finding out who painted them, or what their source was. If you can do this now, maybe we can get some of these back! Komdori20:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've seen that. I agree in general, but a picture is really worth thousand words, and we have to be careful about them when we don't know from where they were scanned. I really doubt those images you scanned were made so long ago. To me, they look like something that came out of a history book, maybe a school book. I think a lot of publishers might give permission, but many might not. Some of the images, in fact, I think were found to be recent paintings. Others, like the one I just linked, I have no clue. So if you get time, please try to find somewhere that has these or others, they add a lot to the article, and it is a shame that zero of your images are surviving, you added many. When I tagged them, I thought that you'd be able to get some data about at least some of them. At least with Wikipedia, almost no action cannot be undone! So maybe we can undo the deletes soon. Komdori20:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Is it "extremely offensive"? Its simply my own viewpoint on things and it is insignificant to what is happening in the talk pages. Good friend10002:08, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comments like "Japan agreed to give up all their territories after WWII, right? Then do so and stop being a pain in the ass." and "The PRC has nothing to add to their claim besides some silly little tribute Goguryeo paid a bit and some stupid claim over land in Manchuria and how its their land today." are clearly not NPOV comments. If you really wish to publish these comments in your "Wikipedia Sucks" essay somewhere, you might follow the advice given on the user page guide: "In general, if you have material that you do not wish for others to edit, or that is otherwise inappropriate for Wikipedia, it should be placed on a personal web site. Many free and low-cost web hosting, email, and weblog services are widely available, and are a good alternative for content unrelated to Wikipedia." --Cheers, Komdori14:02, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And btw, I'm not writing all this up because I'm angry about the discussion at the Dokdo talk page, I have been thinking about this over the last couple months. Ha! Good friend10020:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Goguryeo. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content which gains a consensus among editors. --Endroit02:54, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I see that you are only accusing me. User Jiejunkong has disrupted the relative stability of the article by making edits that may be original research and pasting "no source" tags all over the article. It is obvious that he doesn't understand Wikipedia rules, giving me a "warning" thats not even done in the proper way on something that I did not even violate.
Simply because you agree with him doesn't mean that he does not violate WP:3RR or WP:NPOV. He has made provocative edits and added an image that seems to be original research. I have not used my.goguryeo.net to source the controversial section of the article, only the "Goguryeo-China wars" part.
Jiejunkong has also made funny claims about how Silla is the "real" enemy of Goguryeo and something about how Silla is connected to modern Korea more than Goguryeo. ["Goguryeo-China war" is imprecise, where is Silla?]
Jiejunkong has also been rude to other editors he disagrees with, calling sources that agree with Goguryeo as "fascist". He also named others that they are "amatuers" and are not "capable of contributing verifiable facts". He has also said that he "doesn't want to touch my talk pages", implying that he hates me or is disgusted with me.
I think you Endroit, yes you need to apologize to me and see that Jiejunkong is the editor that first disrupted the article (I'm not accusing him of "starting it first". I'm not 10 years old). Good friend10003:20, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I believe I have just started my discussion with Jiejunkong in Talk:Goguryeo, and you are incorrect to assume that I agree with him. In your case, Good friend100, you have completely deleted his material without even trying to understand what the material contained. I believe that yours is a bigger disruption than Jiejunkong's, and if there's anyone who needs to appologize, it's you Good friend100. Please read up on WP:AGF before you start accusing people again.--Endroit03:38, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Pasting tags all over the article, writing down nonsense that is sourced by something contradicting itself, making rude comments, and uploading provocative and possible originally researched image are stuff I have seen him do. And I should assume good faith after seeing him do this?
I am reverting back to the neutral version of the article, unlike him, who is reverting back to his version. Tagging the "Goguryeo-China Wars" section as POV simply doesn't make sense to me. No straightfoward discussion and claiming that Goguryeo's main enemy was Silla is definitely mind boggling.
I do not feel that I need to apologize. The article has been relatively stable until he started to make provocative edits without discussion. Maybe you should hit up on Jiejunkong's edits on the talk page and see his accusations of Cydevil's "twisted arguments". Good friend10003:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You can't just remove the "factual accuracy" tag without discussion, like you did. That's the part you need to exercise WP:AGF with the utmost caution. We are still in discussion, so please do not delete complete texts without consensus to do so. Thank you.--Endroit04:10, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Jiejunkong cannot just add the "factual accuracy" simply because he thinks theres something wrong with the article. He has had no standing discussion about it. The article was fine until he slammed into it, pasting tags all over the article simply because he doesn't like the article and claims Goguryeo is Chinese. I don't think I needed to "assume faith" after seeing what he did to the article. I reverted his edits and then the fun started from there.
And the complete text you are talking about, I explained that the source on it was totally messed up. The source did not support the section, it actually is about a Chinese historian refuting the Northeast project. Either the writer of the section does not know English or it is supposed to be a joke. Good friend10012:24, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you are a good detective to label other people without even knowing what you are talking about. Northeast project is just like mygoguryeo.com, only taking a different side. So I have never cited the project as reliable reference. Before you claim who is on whose side, make sure you have read and thought more about the proofs of the claim. I follow all WP's, and I agree to the current wikipedia consensus of reliable source. BTW, I come here because it seems that you are smearing my user talk page with some unsupported slogan templates. This is not good and I believe you do owe me an apology.--Jiejunkong16:31, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Wrote my reply and other stuff in the file you reported against me. Again, you don't seem to fully understand Wikipedia policy. The warnings are not "slogans". It doesn't matter whether or not they have "support" and can be posted onto anybody's talk page when they violate something. Good friend10000:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is a good thing that you are blocked. Your comments and edits are all POV and many of them do not have good sources. Gaogouli is Chinese and stop trying to make up claims that it is Korean. Chinapride19:22, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Report of 3RR violation
I happened to notice you have been reported for two 3RR violations here, and thought it would be good form to give you a link. --Cheers, Komdori20:43, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, it would suck to get blocked and not even know the report was filed. I assume the reporter forgot/didn't know to leave you a message when it was actually filed. Just as some friendly advice, even if the version the editor reverts to is terrible, it's not really going to damage anything for a day or two, especially on an article like Goguryeo where not many see it. I was offline today for a lot of the day so I didn't even see it happening. --Cheers, Komdori01:54, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You have been blocked for violating the three revert rule on Goguryeo controversies for a period of 24 hours. To contest this block, please reply here on your talk page by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} along with the reason you believe the block is unjustified, or email the blocking administrator or any administrator from this list. SelketTalk08:09, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
unblock request
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
I in fact wrote down my reason before I got blocked on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR. I won't start listing why I shouldn't be blocked, but I'll apologize due to the fact that I carried on the edit war without filing a case first, like I should have done. However, the reverts I did were reverts to keep Goguryeo and its related articles from being POV. I already explained how user:Jiejunkong's edits were both violating WP:V and WP:NPOV. Again, I apologize (and did before) how it is my fault for edit warring. However, I strongly feel that Jiejunkong has participated in edit warring as well and has made numerous other violations which can be observed on Talk:Goguryeo. Please reconsider the block, or decrease the time blocked. Good friend100 22:04, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
having fun with the block
what did you do during your block? I hope you had a fun time.
And I hope you learned your lesson. This fully shows that Gaogouli is Chinese and that you should not try to make Gaogouli look Korean. Even Selket agrees with you. Chinesepride18:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Dictionary
I gave you a link to "administer" in the dictionary before. Please learn the English meaning for this term. The fact is both sides are administering the island in the sense of the template (it doesn't give us an option for "claimant"). If you have a problem with it, talk on the template page, not on the Dokdo page. --Cheers, Komdori20:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Check Kuril Islands dispute. Does Japan monitor and patrol around the islands? I'm sure they do, like Dokdo but does that justify that the article can be written "administered by Russia and Japan"? Maybe you should make your argument there. Good friend10020:56, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Since you seem very familiar with it, perhaps you could. We treat articles individually. If I propose a change there and they say "look at the Dokdo page" then neither can be changed. It doesn't work that way. --Cheers, Komdori21:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I thought you are retired Good friend? Anyways, I have a little suspicion that Kodori is actually a Japanese acting as a Korean, because, he says exactly what Japanese users would say, and have very little loyalty towards Korea but Japan. I know that it is immportant to be neutral, but he is too pro-Japanese. I hate to feel it this way, but, I have a great suspicion that Komdori is Japanese. Also, wife do not normally say "Komdori" to her husband.
If he is a Japanese User:
He named his user a Korean name to trick.
He pretends that he is an american just to act like as if he is neutral..
If he is not:
He must moved to USA when he was young.
He must not have any Korean education.
He had some American and Japanese influence while he was at USA.
He must not know his identity.
I hope you take this seriously. I am extremly sorry Komdori if you are reading this, but I have a little suspicion. Prove yourself that you are not Japanese, then I will be really glad.--Kingj12321:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
After discussing with Wikimachine, I'll try to take the initiative toward working toward some more positive changes on Korean articles. I had originally thought that other Koreans might rather have a fellow Korean help get them acceptable (for example, removing bad photos, and so on).
My wife does call me Komdori, it's just a pet name. If it was not unique I could not use it as my Wikipedia name. I will not tell you my nickname for her, although it is also a Korean word *smile*. Try to assume good faith. If I was a Japanese person I would not care about Goguryeo, for example or other issues like this. --Cheers, Komdori22:00, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No really! I am actually French and I am claiming to be Korean. Userboxes, in my opinion, are just a waste of space and users can make any claims they would like. Yes, I suspect Komdori is not Korean. I have not seen him fully agree with any of the Korean parties. But Kingj123, you shouldn't care. Don't gripe about Wikipedia because you don't agree with something. I simply see Komdori as another editor who disagrees with me often. Now isn't that easy to do.
As for consistency, a poll at Senkaku Islands was held, affected by what was happening at Dokdo. Wikipedia calls for consistency. That is why Senkaku Islands is aptly named for its commoness. I'm sure the current government that administers Senkaku had a role in the poll. Good friend10023:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So in your opinion, both are locked at their respective positions (Senkaku and Dokdo) forever, no way to fix it unless we do a joint poll? Read up on Wikipedia policies... that's not how it's supposed to work. --Cheers, Komdori23:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Not locked forever, it just doesn't make sense how the Senkaku poll was caused by the events at Dokdo, but Dokdo must be isolated by itself. You say this article has to be isolated and dealt with alone, yet you support using "Dokdo/Takeshima", which is modeled after another article, and something not recommended by Wikipedia. Good friend10000:22, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
re:Regarding Wikimachine
You missed my point, Good Friend. I said it was bias that he/she ignored socks that support his/her own position. You and I both know that if it were the other way around, Wikimachine would've been the first to notice it. Parsecboy03:02, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Notice of 3RR violation report
Unless I miscounted, you had at least six reverts in the last 24 hours on Goguryeo, which has been noted on the 3RR noticeboard here. If they are not reverts, etc., please clarify on that page. --Cheers, Komdori18:29, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You might as well tell me that you filed a report against me. If you think my feelings get hurt or something, stop making ur comments on my talk page like somebody else reported me. I personally don't care that you reported me and I'm not surprised you would report me. Good friend10018:42, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I did say, "unless I miscounted." I didn't mean to try to hide anything. Last time it wasn't me who reported you; that time I just happened to notice and thought you might like the heads up. --Cheers, Komdori18:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Users like Jiejunkong, Naus, and Wikipokemon have made rude comments and have a generally bad attitude. I have warned them but they do not heed. I am requesting unblock because I feel I have not done anything except revert their edits on Goguryeo which I find to be very annoying. i.e. pasting "no reference" tags all over the article. They are also adding POV edits.
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Hi! You have made edits regarding the position of an individual scholar at Harvard University in the USA. That scholar finished his post-doc in 2005 and is now the director of the Early Korean Project at the same university. Mumun 無文20:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You have been blocked for violating the three-revert rule at Goguryeo for a period of forty-eight hours. To contest this block, please reply here on your talk page by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} along with the reason you believe the block is unjustified, or email the blocking administrator or any administrator from this list. -- tariqabjotu21:10, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is your third 3RR block in a week and second in two days, so the block length is longer than the standard twenty-four hours. -- tariqabjotu21:10, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
It was a misunderstanding because the sentence I changed was confusing and the grammar was wrong and I simply wished to make it clearly. I don't have any intentions to vandalize Wikipedia or cause trouble.
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Did you make that announcement at the Silkroad Forums that wikipedia sucks and that people should vandalize wikipedia?
If you did, you should leave wikipedia forever because that is unacceptable. Telling people to vandalize wikipedia means that you vandalized it yourself. Just because you got blocked doesn't mean you can go around and rant that wikipedia sucks.
Nationalistic people like you who violate wikipedia policies like 3RR need to be blocked indef. Gaogouli is chinese and most editors agree with that. Only because you and the stupid POV Korean editors manipulate the place, the article stays at Goguryeo. Please stop vandalizing wikipedia and stop spreading words that wikipedia sucks. This is your last warning. Zhang12318:27, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have done nothing wrong, and I think you should end the personal attacks. I did not make that account on the forums. And I am positive that this is a malicious attempt to simply degrade my image here. Good friend10023:30, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think that anyone who reads the post over at Silkroad can tell that it's someone trying to do what you suspect, set you up. We've disagreed how many times in the past, and I have never seen you have the hatred toward the project that the post over there suggests. You may have violated 3RR, but it was mostly because you were getting caught up in the moment or whatever. If you read the post on Silkroad, it's clear that someone's trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. I suppose we can never be certain who is leaving the strongly anti-whatever messages, but the safest thing to do is just ignore them. Your edit history speaks for itself. Probably I'm the last person you want defending you, but don't let a guy like this (with all vandal/trollish edits) get to you. PS, now that your block is over maybe consider archiving your talk page (it is pretty big). You might want to consider leaving a link either on your user or talk page to that particular post and saying that it was not you who left it in case someone stumbled across it or sees a link to it somewhere else (Goguryeo talk page, for example). --Cheers, Komdori23:54, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm ignoring these people and I'm letting nobody get to me. I'm not weak and I don't cry when people make me look bad or add crap all over this page. You never even give an ounce of a support to the Goguryeo/Dokdo/Korea side while claiming to be Korean so I'm just going to ignore all the trolls. Good friend10023:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad you're not letting anyone get to you. I guess you missed all the vandalism I've undone to those articles by the guys like who left the message here. I also give significant support to Goguryeo and Korean articles. As for Liancourt Rocks, that's really the best name, who knows what happens tomorrow, and this way the article is at least semi-stable. I know we've disagreed in the past, but I hope we can work more evenly on an article sometime, you have a lot of energy. When the article is about a controversial topic, though, it seems everyone wastes a lot of that good energy arguing. Maybe we'll do better on a purely Korean article. --Cheers, Komdori23:20, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Gaogouli tribute
Where does it say that tributary relations ended in 106?
According to Samguk Sagi (Korean primary source):
Year fifteen (656), summer, fifth month, iron fell like rain. Winter, twelfth month, envoys were sent to Tang to offer congratulations to the imperial crown prince.[15]
That is not vandalism, only a warning. Its highly offensive that you think warnings are vandalism, or if it were true I would be filing reports on Endroit and Komdori.
Again, Wikipedia leans more on other sources than primary sources for articles. And again your interpretation can be different from others. I see that sentence you put as a present to the imperial crown prince (for reasons I do not know why) and that it is "congratulating".
I am fully aware of the 3RR rules of Wikipedia. Since this "warning" came from the same person involved in the editing dispute, I don't believe you are in a position to issue out warnings.
Regarding the primary sources, keep in mind that ALL secondary sources are derivatives of primary sources. If you read the footnotes on the bottom of the article, you would realize that these were indeed, forms of tribute paid to the Tang.
If you are still not convinced, here's a secondary source to confirm it:
Peace was maintained with the Koguryo after they sent tribute to the Tang in 619 until the Tang vassal state Silla complained that Koguryo and Paekche attacked them in 643.[16]Assault1103:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My source is still valid. What do you make of this contradiction between authors? It simply shows that people are uninformed and that we do not know enough about Goguryeo to make any assumptions, even if they are sourced. Good friend10021:02, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The reason why I believe that my source is correct (and that Goguryeo did not pay tribute to China for a long time) is because of the endless wars they fought. Now, do you think its reasonable that Goguryeo would give money to its enemy? It simply does not make sense. I find that China has very flimsy claims on tributary statuses, agreeing with historians' papers. Good friend10021:04, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Your source only made reference to the ending of tributes the Han Dynasty. Gaogouli continued to sent tributes to Han's successors. Assault1123:25, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Here it says that Throughout Koguryo’s existence as a state, its kings typically engaged Chinese leaders in warfare rather than as allies. Again, it does not make any sense that Goguryeo gave China money or gifts while they were an enemy. Goguryeo did not pay any tributes to China after 106 AD. Gifts or money sent to China were probably signs of friendship or agreement to trade, etc during peacetime. Good friend10023:28, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hello. It's true that I'm still re-reviewing the move proposal, but as I've already stated before I find it very unlikely that I decide to overturn it again. Answering to your concerns:
My decision to close the poll and move was not abrupt at all. Move proposals listed at WP:RM have a 5-day period for the discussions to occur, after which they are to be closed by an admin. This particular move proposal had entered the backlog for 2 days already and just couldn't stay there forever.
I listened to the opinions of those who contacted me and found their arguments sound. I'm also listening to the opinions of users who dispute my second decision. Their arguments are also sound, which doesn't make things easier.
Sock abuse happened on both sides, and I've already disregarded it. I'm currently finishing reviewing arguments from both sides, where Dokdo supporters claim that the rocks are under Korean control, and where Liancourt Rocks supporters claim that the latter is a title that conforms to WP:NPOV.
I've checked the Senkaku move proposal and I do not agree with its closure. A user who participated in the discussion should not have closed it. A new discussion on the matter should most definitely take place. Regards, Húsönd01:08, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Leaving Wikipedia
Hey Good friend100, are you leaving Wikipedia?
I understand perfectly how Wikipedia has diverted your focus from school & most likely have caused your grades to drop, and absolutely, if you feel so, you must leave.
Like I said at the Liancourt Rocks talk page, it was a good fight to the finish. Regardless of what these self-esteemed "NPOV" users say, we know what we are talking about. And no, I won't say any cliches. I'll make it definite and clear so that everyone visiting your talk page can read this.
You are not a nationalist and POV extremist. But you want to let other people know of your country & culture. Because, to the many eyes around the world, Korea is a 3rd world country, uncivilized, remote, and filled with cheap labor and factory workers. The superior western people can determine the neutral point of view for Korea. They can speak for us. The shear arrogance has allowed these people to determine the neutral viewpoint on all controversial matters that could not be solved by even the wisest and the most cooperative men on Earth.
And what are you supposed to do? Sit around and do nothing? No, you came to Wikipedia to develop Korea-related articles, so that at worst people with will can have the resources to learn about Korea and speak for Korea that it really is. It was a good fight to the finish.
After you graduate college & get a job, come back. Reopen your account. We'll have many more members by then. Good luck, high five. (Wikimachine02:22, 1 June 2007 (UTC))[reply]
The Original Barnstar
A Post-Retirement Original Barnstar for all of your unrecognized hard works and efforts that have resulted in a more positive future for mankind. Wikimachine02:26, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I actually brought that up long time ago in our WP:KO talk - about keeping cool in heated discussions. No, I was never angry, just frustrated. But you're right too. The amount of frustration can make you go crazy. My parents are also telling me to quit Wikipedia because my grades have gone down significantly. So, I think it's best for you to stay away. I'll continue a bit more and see. But come back whenever. Again, good luck high five. Remember that my e-mail address is on my user page. Contact me whenever things fit. (Wikimachine02:50, 1 June 2007 (UTC))[reply]
Thank you very much for the barnstar! If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Kirill Lokshin 03:09, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
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