Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Innocent Gangaidzo

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Joyous! Noise! 02:27, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Innocent Gangaidzo

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Had marked this for notability last week, and hoped it would be improved. A single ref was added, which has a very brief mention of the person. There is not enough in-depth coverage to meet WP:GNG, so it hinges on whether his position as president of ECSACOP satisfies WP:NSCHOLAR. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 12:07, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Thank you @Reidgreg for a more fair assessment.

@Randykitty: @Headbomb: This is what I meant by, "I wonder why I often encounter resistance whenever I create articles about clearly notable African entities. It's extraordinary as conventional Wikipedia notability criteria no longer apply. These articles are nominated for deletion or deemed not to be suitable as stand-alone articles."

Gangaidzo meets at least four different notability criteria: (1) president of ECSACOP (2) editor-in-chief of an established academic journal, which has been in operation for nearly 70 years (3) former president of the Medical and Dental Practitioners Council of Zimbabwe (4) impact by number of citations. Any one of these alone would be sufficient for Wikipedia notability. I will provide an additional example: Suzanne Crowe is president of the Medical Council of Ireland which makes her rightly notable. In addition to Godfrey Muguti, former president of COSECSA, the next page I was going to create was Medical and Dental Practitioners Council of Zimbabwe, which was established over 100 years ago - in 1905. Such organizations are notable e.g. Uganda Medical and Dental Practitioners Council. Even if one uses independent sources from reputable organizations, it is still not enough. It is thus clear to me that content related to Africa is not particularly welcome on Wikipedia as it's notability is immediately questioned despite easily meeting the criteria. Various tags are then applied to the article(s).

I should not be surprised, after all there is systemic bias on Wikipedia.

BW and good luck.

@Doc James: @I JethroBT: @Bobbyshabangu: @Islahaddow: @DaSupremo:

Ear-phone (talk) 13:09, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Academics and educators, Medicine, and Zimbabwe. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:38, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep A researcher with a substantial number of published articles with well over 100 citations each.Jeppiz (talk) 15:29, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Scopus gives 1451 citations to his work, but that's spread over some 56 articles credited to him. ECSACOP is quite new (founded in 2015, presumably only has five classes from its four-year program) not sure if it's established with a large enough fellowship to count as 'major'. I'd hoped/presumed there would be more substantive RSS biographical information on the subject but have failed to find anything. – Reidgreg (talk) 16:08, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This is a high-citation field so I don't want to rely too heavily on WP:PROF#C1 but the #C8 case as editor-in-chief of the Central African Journal of Medicine, head of multiple notable organizations, and the case for systemic bias all convince me that there's enough here. —David Eppstein (talk) 21:36, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- David Eppstein, I almost always agree with you. In this case, regarding CAJM, I would disagree. It is a very minor journal that is hardly ever cited; its IF is around 0.1 (and not included in JCR). I mean no disrespect to the journal, but #C8 (as I understand it) does not cover being EIC of any journal. Jeppiz (talk) 01:52, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- For CAJM discussion, please see Talk:Central_African_Journal_of_Medicine. Briefly; over 4000 articles published over several decades. It was at least a quartile two journal at some point. Ear-phone (talk) 09:15, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The CAJM is emphatically not a "major well-established" journal. As for the suggestion that there's somehow an anti-African bias here, I don't see that. To me, such a bias would be that sourcing judged sufficient for a non-African subject would not be judged sufficient for an African subject. As far as I can see, the same criteria that would be used for non-African subjects ae applied here. Unfortunately, it's a fact of live that fewer sources exist for subjects from some parts of the world. The solution to that it getting more sources, and creating more articles for those subjects where sources exist, not lowering our criteria for some subjects. --Randykitty (talk) 12:52, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 16:34, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To paraphrase Talk:Central_African_Journal_of_Medicine here are the criteria for notability of an academic journal (If a journal meets any of the following criteria):

Criterion 3: The journal is historically important in its subject area.

The CAMJ was included in the selective MEDLINE database (and even in the Index Medicus from 1965-2015). Therefore CAJM is emphatically a notable journal according to Wikipedia criteria.

With respect to sourcing, according to Wikipedia:Identifying and using primary sources "Primary" is not, and should not be, a bit of jargon used by Wikipedians to mean "bad" or "unreliable" or "unusable". While some primary sources are not fully independent, they can be authoritative, high-quality, accurate, fact-checked, expert-approved, subject to editorial control, and published by a reputable publisher." The sources used for Innocent Gangaidzo are largely independent, accurate, high quality, from reputable organizations, etc. see Talk:Innocent_Gangaidzo

@TJMSmith

Ear-phone (talk) 20:29, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Probably a weak keep although I understand both sides of the argument. I think the definitions of what is a well established journal is not clear from the criteria and CAJM is probably established enough. This combined with presidence of ESCASOP probably means the subjects meet one or two of WP:ACADEMIC criteria.

JamesKH76 (talk) 16:57, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And Gangaidzo was president of the Medical and Dental Practitioners Council of Zimbabwe from 2010 to 2015 (as previously mentioned). Which alone meets Wikipedia notability criteria. See Suzanne Crowe president of the Medical Council of Ireland. Crowe has fewer scholarly citations than Gangaidzio.

I also created, in the past, Michael Osborn (pathologist) who is President of The Royal College of Pathologists. There was no resistance whatsoever with this article despite him having fewer scholarly citations than Gangaidzo, me using similar sources as I did for Gangaidzo as references, Osborn not being an Editor-in-Chief of an academic journal or a head of other organisations.

What is the difference I wonder, Gangaidzo is from Africa and Osborn is from Europe. Ear-phone (talk) 08:31, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Robertjamal12:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.