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May 2

Categories for Nepalese film stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 02:06, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: These categories don't need to exist as Category:Nepalese film stubs doesn't need diffusion. There are stub templates for 1960s through 2010s that may not be needed either but limiting this nomination to the categories. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 23:39, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom, plus these were created out of process. Her Pegship (speak) 23:51, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Nepal-album-stub

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete, in conjunction with the closure above. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:06, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Did not go through Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals. Not enough Nepalese album articles to justify having this at this time. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 23:26, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Characters in legends

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: do not merge, but rename Category:Characters in legends to Category:Legendary characters to match the sub-cats at May 3. – Fayenatic London 14:43, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Very similar categories. The legendary people heirarchy is better populated. Of course not all the articles are, strictly speaking, about people, but most of them have some claim to be regarded as people. Not all of them really qualify as Literary characters either. Combining the two categories gets round that issue. Rathfelder (talk) 15:55, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 10:46, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator's rationale: See collapsed discussion below. Steel1943 (talk) 13:26, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Copy of speedy discussion
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Catholic Church sex abuse scandal in Australia

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: supserseded by wider nomination at CFD May 23. – Fayenatic London 12:49, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: See collapsed discussion below. Steel1943 (talk) 12:30, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Copy of speedy discussion
Don't you think the speedy could proceed as normal now again? PPEMES (talk) 15:27, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly not as nominated, since we have moved away from "sex abuse cases". Is it sufficiently clear what the new names should be? e.g. Category:Catholic Church child sexual abuse scandals in Australia? – Fayenatic London 11:31, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Foxbridge

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 07:08, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Seems odd to have a category for horses sired (or "grandsired") by a stallion. Man o' War doesn't have one. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:17, 12 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm, Northern Dancer has one - Category:Northern Dancer bloodline - though that looks a lot more impressive. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:21, 12 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 20:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC) [reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 11:24, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Samsung Gear games

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename as nominated. One of the discussants suggested creating one or more parent categories on top of this category, but did not object against Category:Samsung Gear VR games as such. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 11:20, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: "Samsung Gear" is not a single software platform (there are Gear VR, Gear S3, Gear Sport, Gear Fit, etc.); the only common feature of "Samsung Gear games" might be that they are games for a mobile Samsung device whose name includes the words "Samsung Gear". All the current pages in the category are actually games for Samsung Gear VR. The name "Samsung Gear VR games" would be consistent with categories for games for other VR headset, e.g. HTC Vive games, Oculus Rift games, PlayStation VR games, etc. Martin Kraus (talk) 10:31, 10 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 20:28, 23 April 2019 (UTC) [reply]
I guess an alternative might be to rename the category to "Games on Samsung Gear platforms" and make a subcategory "Samsung Gear VR games" and a supercategory "Games on Samsung platforms". But that appears to be unnecessary deep. A more reasonable alternative might be to rename this category to "Games on Samsung platforms" and make "Samsung Gear VR games" a subcategory. Martin Kraus (talk) 20:47, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I support the initial proposal, to specify Samsung Gear VR. Bondegezou (talk) 16:04, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 11:24, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Images of history maps

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Wikipedia images of maps, as there is no common factor among these 12 images. This close is no bar to creating a category of history maps, or of historical maps, if someone wants to populate such a thing properly. – Fayenatic London 14:26, 10 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: All maps show history. So do all images. It's parent Category:History images is a very bad idea (all images are images of history a second after they are created). Redundant to Category:History maps. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:13, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 11:24, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Church buildings, inconsistent categories

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 June 15#Church buildings, inconsistent categories

Category:Danish airline chief executives

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 10:13, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Merge into parent categories (except Category:Airlines of Denmark), per WP:SMALLCAT. feminist (talk) 05:42, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hong Kong Government biography stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. – Fayenatic London 16:47, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Consensus at WPSS is to re-scope the stub type to include people from all branches of the government of Hong Kong; Hong Kong Government (caps) refers only to the executive branch. Her Pegship (speak) 20:31, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DannyS712 (talk) 02:44, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hong Kong Government stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. – Fayenatic London 18:11, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Consensus at WPSS is to re-scope the stub type to include all branches of the government of Hong Kong; Hong Kong Government (caps) refers only to the executive branch. Her Pegship (speak) 20:27, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DannyS712 (talk) 02:44, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:File deletion templates

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 10:41, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: To follow the same format as Category:Categories for discussion templates, Category:Templates for discussion templates, and Category:Redirects for discussion templates. DannyS712 (talk) 19:25, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: WP:INVOLVED relist - no discussion at all
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DannyS712 (talk) 02:44, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Boat racing people by Canadian province or territory

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 11:18, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only used as a holder for one category, that category being listed below. See explanation there for proposal. Grutness...wha? 03:16, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DannyS712 (talk) 02:42, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Boat racing people from Ontario

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 11:18, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Currently only contains a handful of articles, which are a peculiar mishmash of sport sailors and canoeists. No other country, territory, state, province, city, or town has a "Boat racing people" category. The current oddity should be deleted, with no prejudice against creating Category:Canoeists from Ontario and Category:Sailors (sport) from Ontario and the equivalent "by province" categories, which would very likely be populable. See also above nomination. Grutness...wha? 03:16, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DannyS712 (talk) 02:42, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Music festivals

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 11:30, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge, until 1921 the tree of Category:Music festivals by year is just a duplicate of its subcategory Category:Music festivals by year of establishment. The 'oldest' article in the tree about a music festival of a particular year is Salzburg Festival: history and repertoire, 1922–1926. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:05, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Merge or "destroy"? Given the number of categories, this would benefit from further discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DannyS712 (talk) 02:40, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So I have tweaked[1][2]{{Music festivals by year of establishment cat}} to populate Category:{{Title year}} music festivals if that exists, otherwise use Category:{{Title year}} in music.
Hope this helps --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:16, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Swedish-speaking Finns

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: withdrawn (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 12:47, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: containerize (keep the subcategories and the List article in the category): Swedish-speaking is not a defining characteristic of people with an article directly in this category. A large amount of the articles do not even mention the fact. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:15, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DannyS712 (talk) 02:39, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:XYZ (English band) members

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. ‑Scottywong| talk _ 00:55, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This band, XYZ, never recorded or played live. It's an interesting footnote in the history of Yes and Led Zeppelin, but I can't see how membership of it is ever a defining category. Bondegezou (talk) 09:30, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - it's similar to categorising footballers by each team they played for. (The 4 people are clearly defining for XYZ (English band) but that is the wrong way round.) Thanks for the nom - hadn't heard of this venture. Oculi (talk) 10:18, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, as creator. I'm not sure there's a notability test for categorizable bands, or what we would use to create it. At the moment, I think it's "Does the band have an article that lists at least three members with articles?" As far as I know, we've removed only one other category like this before, Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 November 2#Category:Million Dollar Quartet members, and that was because Presley, Cash, Perkins, and Lewis didn't actually call themselves by that name. In this case, the participants called themselves XYZ when they recorded their songs together (see [3]), so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯? Anyway, willing to go whichever way as long as we have a clear rationale that can be applied to the creation of other categories.--Mike Selinker (talk) 13:07, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
They recorded some demos together. We don't know what name would have been used if they had actually gone public and released something or played live. Categories do not exist to be an exhaustive ontology: we only use them for defining characteristics, and being an XYZ member is never going to be a defining characteristic. Bondegezou (talk) 15:24, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We do know that, though. Jimmy Page said, "Chris (Squire) had this wonderful name for it: XYZ, because it was ex-Yes and ex-Zeppelin."[4] If Jimmy Page says that's what the band's name was, I feel that's good enough for me.--Mike Selinker (talk) 07:24, 19 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The name is not the issue. That the band had no substantive existence is. It was an aborted project: how is it ever going to be a defining characteristic? Bondegezou (talk) 22:58, 19 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, in the absence of definable notability tests other than "having an article which lists its members, enough of which have articles of their own," I see no reason that this is any different than any other band. They formed a unit, they gave themselves a name, they recorded music, it's been released and is available on the internet. All seems fine to me. YMMV.--Mike Selinker (talk) 05:47, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
They recorded some demos. The demos leaked without permission: they have never been officially released. (This is all described in the article.)
We have a test and that's WP:DEFCAT. None of the four people in this category are "commonly and consistently define[d]" by reliable sources with respect to their membership of this aborted project. Bondegezou (talk) 11:29, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The point of Category:Musicians by band is "Musicians by their bands, whether previous or current members." It is a defining element of these musicians that they are in bands, and the goal of the category scheme is to categorize those. I get that you think the band itself is not notable enough. That's an issue for the article, and you should feel free to nominate it for deletion. While the article exists, these are the members of the band that the article describes, so the category scheme covers it. I can see we're not going to agree on this, and that's okay.--Mike Selinker (talk) 16:38, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
But you are stretching the definition of a "band" to include an aborted project. It is different to "any other band" because they never played live, and they never released anything. I'm perfectly happy with the article existing, as it is a notable aborted project, but this makes a mockery of the purpose of categorisation, as clearly laid out in WP:DEFCAT.
The goal of categories is not to provide a comprehensive ontology of every project everyone has been in. It is WP:DEFCAT. No-one ever talks about Chris Squire as "XYZ member Chris Squire", or Jimmy Page as "XYZ member Jimmy Page", ergo this category has no purpose. Bondegezou (talk) 19:01, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No one ever talks about Sidney Crosby as a Rimouski Océanic player either, yet there he is in Category:Rimouski Océanic players, because the purpose of the hockey category system is to categorize players by their teams, whatever they are. This category system uses the same approach. Anyway, I understand your position, Bondegezou, and I'm pretty sure you understand mine. I am fine with whatever happens. Let's see what others say.--Mike Selinker (talk) 05:21, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
For that analogy to work, Rimouski Océanic would have to be an idea for a team who never actually played a match. XYZ was a short-lived attempt towards a band, that folded before any public activity.
If no-one ever talks about Sidney Crosby as a Rimouski Océanic player, then that category should be removed from his article, as per WP:DEFCAT. That, however, does not mean that Category:Rimouski Océanic players should be deleted as long as it is a defining characteristic for some other players. I'm saying being an XYZ member is never a defining characteristic for these four musicians because XYZ, as an aborted project, is only notable because of them.
WP:DEFCAT is an editing guideline. It trumps other stuff existing. Bondegezou (talk) 14:27, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
OK, we disagree on this, and I think we've covered the ground enough for a closer to decide.--Mike Selinker (talk) 14:57, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DannyS712 (talk) 02:39, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:History of philosophy images

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 10:14, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Single-image category related to problematic Category:History images (all images are images of history...). Category:Philosophy images is totally sufficient. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:54, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DannyS712 (talk) 02:34, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete category on Wikipedia, move image to Commons (it's already tagged for that move). I have made several diagrams illustrating the History and philosophy of science, but they are on Commons not Wikipedia, and I didn't create any categories for them... this image should certainly be moved to Commons also, in which case the category is even more clearly redundant than it now is. And perhaps we should do some categorising over on Commons. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:38, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Songs written by Aphex Twin

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 07:24, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary when we also have Category:Aphex Twin songs. Aphex Twin is not a singer so it's not like he's sung on tracks written by other people. (And since he's not a singer I also think "songs" is not strictly correct in either case - there's no singing - and would prefer "tracks", but whatever.) Popcornduff (talk) 05:04, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DannyS712 (talk) 02:28, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Texas A&M MSC Student Conference on National Affairs Former Speakers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 10:15, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCASSOC for the Alumni category and WP:PERFCAT for the Speakers subcategory
The MSC Student Conference on National Affairs is an annual military and civilian conference at Texas A&M University. The "Alumni" category mostly contains articles on prominent politicians who, in their youth, helped coordinate or volunteer for the conference as college students. The "Speakers" category articles generally doesn't mention the conference at all but I assume it's for individual presenters. Neither category seems defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Esperanto speakers of Jewish descent

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. In case there is scope to write an encyclopedic article or section about this intersection, the current members are L. L. Zamenhof, Leopold Einstein, Petr Ginz, Reinhard Selten & Tibor Sekelj. – Fayenatic London 21:28, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCEGRS
I assumed this category would have people that began speaking Esperanto at least partly because of their Jewish background. However, every single article is someone who is Jewish (or from a Jewish background) who happens to speak Esperanto. Not a single one of the current article tie the two topics together. (No merge is needed because I added some categories so that all the articles are in both the Jewish and Esperanto category trees. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This category is created in fact because probably a lot of people of Jewish descent learned Esperanto also or even mainly because of the Jewish link to Esperanto. (The causes and motivation why someone learned Esperanto are usually not mentioned in the wikipedia. Reinhard Selten somewhere said, he learned Esperanto because he knew that his father spoke Esperanto; he did not mention in this sentence that his father was Jewish.) It is known that the first Esperanto speakers came mainly from three backgrounds, former speakers of Volapük, adepts of Lew Tolstoy and Jewish people (or of Jewish descent). Ludwik Zamenhof, who was Jewish himself, sent his first book to Jewish communities in many countries and the percentage of Jewish people between the first speakers of Esperanto is remarkable (although for obvious reasons this fact is not always spoken about). Zamenhof also at some time had the idea of creating Esperanto just to give Jews a common international language. I came to the idea of creating the category just because of this link. I speak Esperanto for more than fourty years now and some day I realised that a lot of my Esperanto friends are of Jewish descent; they do not say, hello, I am of Jewish descent, but after some while you realise it. So I think this category expresses this link. --Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven (talk) 09:08, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Here is a mention of a publication about the subject (not yet published), "The Heritage and Legacy of Ludwik Lejzer Zamenhof between Judaism and Esperanto. Proceedings of the GEOP Workshop at Polin Museum Warsaw, December 2017 (In Vorbereitung, mit Federico Gobbo)". I tried to find another article about this link I know of, but didn't succeed :-( --Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven (talk) 09:30, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but there is the tree of Category:Esperantists_by_nationality. It seems to me that being of Jewish descent is somehow similar. Maybe the Category:Esperanto speakers of Jewish descent should be a subcategory there. --Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven (talk) 08:43, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think, we should consider that the situation of Jews and people of Jewish descent living in a diaspora is not always the same as that of general English or US people. So sometimes it is similar, but a bit different. --Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven (talk) 13:31, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep It is clear that Jewish descent plays some or even a major role in the decision to learn and practise Esperanto, also for the history of Esperanto and for the fact that Zamenhof, the creator of Esperanto, was Jewish and linked the creation of the language to his own history. --Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven (talk) 09:46, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe one of the three most known letters of Zamenhof makes clear how intensely Esperanto is linked to judaism and that therefore people of Jewish descent have a special motivation to learn and practice the language. Ludwik Zamenhof wrote in 1905: "If I was not a ghetto Jew, the idea of unifying all humanity would not have occurred to me or it would have never so stubbornly accompanied me throughout my whole life. Nobody can feel the misery of human divisions as much as a Jew from a ghetto. No one can feel as strongly about the need for a non-national but a neutral human language as a Jew who has to pray to God in a long-dead tongue, who receives education and studies in the language of the nation that drives him out, who has scattered all over the world suffering kinsmen with whom he cannot communicate." I do hope that this makes things a bit clearer. --Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven (talk) 09:52, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Here is an article about Zamenhof as a Jew which mentions the letter to Michaux. Esperanto texts can be translated by Google Translate. --Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven (talk) 09:57, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The motivation of the creator of Esperanto just makes clear how much Esperanto and the fact being Jew or of Jewish descent are linked. This is true for Jews and those of Jewish descent up to now. --Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven (talk) 13:36, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I really have no conceptual problem with this category. Maybe there are notable people we don't have articles on yet whose religion and language were intertwined (or maybe there are reliable source that connects the two dots for existing biography articles). But, for right now it's really a truth in advertising issue because a reader would click on the category looking for the intersection between Judaism and Esperanto and wouldn't find it in any of the articles. RevelationDirect (talk) 21:40, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as per nom. Bondegezou (talk) 13:37, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Since the language was created by a Jew seeking a language that could reach across political and linguistic boundaries, it is significant that many Jews have adopted it. This is salient. However, it would not be useful to create categories such as "Esperanto speakers of Norwegian descent" or "Esperanto speakers who are Christian". The link between Esperanto and being Jewish, however, is significant.
  • Delete as this is being used to categorize people such as Reinhard Selten (for whom neither Judaism nor Esperanto is defining) and for consistency of categorization. See also WP:DNWAUC. DexDor (talk) 20:48, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. While Jewish esperantism may be the topic of an article, I do not see the value of the category in its current form, especially if of Jewish descent is meant as a proxy for Jew. An intersection between language spoken and religion or ethnicity seems unlikely. We do not have Catholic speakers of Latin or Swedish speakers of Finnish descent. Place Clichy (talk) 17:03, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Translators of the Bible into English who were not native speakers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 11:14, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:TRIVIALCAT
The category contains this header in way of an explanation: "A surprising number of people who translated the Bible (or portions) into English grew up speaking other languages before thyhey learned English." I'm actually not that surprised. If a work is being translated between two languages, it seems likekly that half might have grown up speaking the language of the original document and half the language of the newly translated one. (Probably less, since polyglots might have grown up speaking neither language.) I can't find any similar "not native speakers" subcategories in the Category:Translators by destination language tree. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:20, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per WP:TRIVIALCAT, no need for this to be a seperate category. Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 13:55, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose deletion The nominator is "not that surprised" that non-native speakers of English have translated (portions of) the Bible into English. Actually, it is quite unusual. I know of nobody translating the Bible into any other European language who was not a native speaker. Though there are not comparable categories for translators into other languages, I feel that a category that captures over a dozen articles is worth something. I do not share the urge to eliminate categories. If there is a consensus of at least eight editors who vote to remove it, I will not object.Pete unseth (talk) 18:25, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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