Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Star Trek V: The Final Frontier/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 20:13, 4 August 2011 [1].

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Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured article candidates/Star Trek V: The Final Frontier/archive1
• Featured article candidates/Star Trek V: The Final Frontier/archive2

Nominator(s): Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 14:37, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Second try, first archived for lack of supports. The article was substantially overhauled prose-wise, and I believe the other sourcing concerns were sorted out as well. Learn about the worst Star Trek film, if you dare. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 14:37, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:56, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

• Check alphabetization of reference list
• You have two Kreitzer sources, so shortened citations need to distinguish between the two
• Newspaper sources should either have weblinks or page numbers
• FN 61: Canada should not be italicized
• What makes this a high-quality reliable source?
• FN 128: formatting
• Be consistent in how authors/editors of larger works (ie. "In...") are notated
• Page numbers for Pilkington and Schultes? Nikkimaria (talk) 14:56, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
  • Addressed most of these. For the missing page numbers, I wasn't able to get those citation numbers--for whatever reason my online repositories don't have full citation info for some. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 16:17, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Comments, inclined to support: I supported before and most of my comments are in the earlier review. I will be delighted do so again once these fairly minor prose issues are cleared up that I noticed on another read-through. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:09, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

• "Kirk is beamed aboard the Klingon ship, where Spock and the Klingon hostage force Klaa to stand down and apologise." Minor point, but did Klaa not "stand down" before his vessel destroyed the entity, and apologise when Kirk beamed up?
• "Bryant performed his audition twice, as Shatner requested he redo his first performance speaking in Klingon": I'm not sure he can redo his first performance as it would be his second performance! What about "…repeat his performance speaking in Klingon"?
• "When Shatner tried to convince Bennett to reconsider the producer insisted on a meeting at his home." I think a comma would help here after "reconsider".
• "Paramount rushed the film into production in late 1988, concerned that the franchise's momentum following The Voyage Home had disappeared,[15] despite the writers' strike cutting into the film's pre-production." The "despite … preproduction" clause is a bit cut off here. Would it work better if "concerned … disappeared" was moved to the start of the sentence to give "Concerned that the franchise's momentum following The Voyage Home had disappeared, Paramount rushed the film into production in late 1988 despite the writer's strike cutting into pre-production."
• "After having Shatner explain the entire story in a day-long session…" What about "After Shatner explained …"
• "After being disappointed by the costume designers Shatner and Bennett approached to realize Rodis' ideas, Shatner suggested that Rodis become the costume designer as well." This sentence is a little heavy; could some of the names be cut: "After being disappointed by the costume designers approached to realize Rodis' ideas, Shatner suggested that Rodis become the costume designer as well." But I'm not sure this works either.
• "Rodis and Shatner also drew up sketches for what the various aliens seen in the film would look like.": Sketches of?
• "and developed nicknames for the planned characters." Is this significant?
• "Art department head Michael Okuda implemented his LCARS style of backlit controls on the Klingon ship and Enterprise." I followed the LCARS link but I'm still not sure what the sentence is getting at.
• "and left the screening "reveling" in what turned out to be a "momentary victory" once he saw the special effects.": Was he reveling in the victory after he saw the special effects or did it prove to be momentary when he saw the effects? This is a little confusing. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:09, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
  • I've tried to address all the above. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 17:33, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Support: I'm more than happy to support this; a really informative, interesting article. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:26, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Media checks out. File:Etech05 Bran1.jpg needs a Flickr review, but the bot'll get to it very soon. J Milburn (talk) 23:23, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Support Comments from Ruby2010

• Wikilink first mention of Spock in lead (first paragraph)
• Shouldn't begin a sentence with "Because"
• Wikilink Harve Bennett in lead (i.e. "producer"
• Not a big fan of the short paragraphs in the cast section, but I see why you did it
• "Kelley noted his own ambition to direct deserted him years earlier and after seeing difficulties Nimoy faced directing.[2]" This implies there were two reasons Kelley did not want to direct. What was the first reason?
• Wikilink ping pong in cast section
• Some tense issues in the cast section's last paragraph (i.e. "Producer Harve Bennett makes a cameo as a Starfleet admiral.[10]" (makes ->made) etc)Nvmd
• "agreed that he would be a good fit for the task of scripting Star Trek.[24]" Input bolded
• Take another careful look at when "Star Trek" is italicized or not (just want to make sure they're italicized where they should be).
• Wikilink Pink Cadillac and The Globe and Mail

I looked the article over in the peer review, and was pleased then with its quality. Just make the suggested changes above and I'll be happy to add my support. Thanks, Ruby2010 comment! 23:48, 8 July 2011 (UTC) Article now looks great. Excellent job of mixing print and web sources! Ruby2010 comment! 03:19, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Support by Comments from Jappalang

Lede

• "... they confront a renegade Vulcan and Spock's half-brother, Sybok, who is searching for God at the center of the galaxy."

  "... they confront a renegade Vulcan, Sybok, who is searching for God at the center of the galaxy." (Their relation is not really necessary in the lede; furthermore, Spock as a character is identified later).

• "The Final Frontier had the highest opening gross of any film in the series at that point ..."

  "It had the highest opening gross of any film in the series at that point ..."

  The previous sentence starts with the same and there appears to be no change in subject between these two sentences.

Story

• "... of the hostages and most of the crew."

  "... of the hostages and most of Enterprise's crew."

• "... the Klingon ship, where Klaa apologizes."

  "... the Klingon ship and receives Klaa's apology."

Cast

• "Nimoy recalled Shatner instructed him in riding a horse, ..."

  Would it be better to say "Nimoy recalled Shatner's attempts to instruct him in riding a horse, ..." or "Nimoy recalled Shatner's giving pointers to him on riding a horse, ..." since Nimoy's horse-riding skill was not taught by Shatner.

• "... after seeing difficulties Nimoy faced directing."

  "... after seeing difficulties Nimoy faced in directing the two previous Star Trek films."

Development

• "Before he was officially given the director's job, influenced by televangelists Shatner settled on his idea for the film's story. "They [the televangelists] were repulsive, strangely horrifying, and yet I became absolutely fascinated," he recalled."

  Shatner conceived his idea for the film's story before he was officially given the director's job. His inspiration were televangelists; "They [the televangelists] were repulsive, strangely horrifying, and yet I became absolutely fascinated," he recalled.

• "in Shatner's first outline,[14] entitled "An Act of Love", many of the elements—the Yosemite vacation, the abduction of Klingon, human and Romulan hostages on the failed paradise planet—survived to the final film."

  "Shatner's first outline was entitled "An Act of Love", and many of its elements—the Yosemite vacation, the abduction of Klingon, human and Romulan hostages on the failed paradise planet—remained in the final version of the film." (plot elements are not sentient)

• "When Kirk confronts "God", his image transforms into that of Satan, ..."

  "When Kirk confronts "God", the image of the being transforms into that of Satan, ..." (avoid confusion with Kirk)

• "... a good fit for task of scripting ..."

  "... a good fit for the task of scripting ..."

• "... done to give a "one man stands alone" conflict."

  "... done to give a conflict in which "one man stands alone" from the rest."

• "Shatner also reconsidered ..."

  "During this time, Shatner reconsidered ..."

• "... Sha Ka Ree remained as a place of ultimate knowledge ..."

  "... Sha Ka Ree remained; it was changed to a place of ultimate knowledge ..."

• "... and made casts of actors' faces using dental alginate and used them for close-up, high-quality "A" makeups, ..."

  The close-up shots were of casts of the actor's faces or of alien facial masks (based on the casts of the actors' faces)? It would also be better to separate this into another sentence, considering the "and"s.

• "... the film's opening scene between J'onn and Sybok;"

  Who is J'onn?

Filming

• "Production was smoother on set, with the crew shooting scenes ahead of schedule."

  "Production was smoother on set and the crew shot scenes ahead of schedule."

• "Spock's catch of the falling Kirk off Yosemite was replicated by creating a set of the forest floor, rotated ninety degrees."

  "Spock's catching of Kirk as the captain falls off Yosemite was filmed against a set that replicated the forest floor and was rotated ninety degrees."

• "The cast celebrated the end of filming the last week of December 1988, ..."

  "The cast celebrated the end of filming in the last week of December 1988, ..."

• "... a few days after principal photography wrapped to organize the film's postproduction schedule."

  "... a few days after principal photography had wrapped to organize the film's postproduction schedule."

Effects

• "... made The Final Frontier the first film in the series ..."

  "... made The Final Frontier the first film in the Star Trek series ..."

Themes

• "... centuries in the future beliefs in Eden persist, ..."

  I recommend a comma between "future" and "beliefs".

Release

• "1988 was the biggest summer and biggest year in Hollywood's North American box office history;"

  Even now?

  "1988 was the biggest summer and biggest year in Hollywood's North American box office history; the industry headed into summer 1989 having grossed $88 million over the year previous." is not sourced. Jappalang (talk) 02:03, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• "... for a global cume of $63 million."

  What is a "cume"?

• "The season proved another record-breaker, ..."

  "The season proved to be another record-breaker for the film industry, ..."

Just these for the moment. Jappalang (talk) 04:55, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

I believe I've addressed all these. For the release comment, I say "1988 was" when prefacing it as the biggest year in Hollywood history... shouldn't that make it clear it's no longer the case? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 17:32, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

I still am not certain over the way 1988 is introduced; we are looking from a 2011 perspective. In those intervening years (1988–2011), if there were more than one year that was "bigger" than 1988, then the comparison seems clouded to me (1988 was the biggest year until 1990... then 1992... then 1996 and so forth). Perhaps the sentence should be rephrased to indicate that the view was from the 1989 perspective? Jappalang (talk) 03:38, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Would adding "At the time" to the beginning of the sentence help? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 16:50, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Dave, I was going to check the source to think up a possible suggestion; the earliest reference for this statement would be Farhi's "Hollywood's Hit Formula", which is at the end of the next sentence "The Final Frontier was expected to be one of the summer's biggest movies and a sure hit". I read Farhi's article on ProQuest and it does not state anything about 1988 or a $88 million gross. I think you have left out a citation... Jappalang (talk) 02:03, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

The proper citation is the USA Today one, it got a bit separated from the initial claim. The relevant quote is "Hollywood enters the summer $ 88 million ahead of May 1988, reports Daily Variety. Last year was the biggest summer ($ 1.68 billion) and biggest year ($ 4.4 billion) at the movies". Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 04:46, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

How is that? Feel free to tweak. I am moving to support since that was the last item. This is a comprehensive article about the worst (indeed) film in the old generation ST franchise (Thankfully, there is ST VI that lets us send off the old cast on a good note). For full disclosure, I was involved in the peer review for this article. Jappalang (talk) 05:40, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Tis a bit wordy, but if you're happy, I'm happy :) Thanks for the reviews, Jappa. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 14:48, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.