Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 384

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user notification

Hello, I'm wondering about what happens when I type user:username. If I place the user name in brackets on someone's talk page, I understand that user will be notified on the messages alert next to the username in the top center left of the screen. If I use the bracketed user:username somewhere else does it also notify the user? When should I include the syntax "u s e r :" in front of the user's name, and when is this not necessary, and finally what is the difference between using the "ping" command vs. just including the username in brackets with the user: preface? ``Cityside189 (talk) 14:00, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Cityside189
"A number of templates are used for this - {{U}} , {{ping}}, and {{reply to}} - will all trigger notifications. Plain links to user pages will also work: [[User:Example|]]."
For the full explanation please see Wikipedia:Notifications#Triggering events - but please note these do not work for IPs only registered accounts, and you must sign the post containing the notification when it is first saved, it does not work if you forget and go back and sign it later. - Arjayay (talk) 14:55, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

@Cityside189: as a caveat , those will all trigger notifications if used within the technical specifications. The username has to be spelled exactly as the actual user's name (correct spacing and caps) AND the template is saved in the same save as a fresh signature. If you misspell and save, it will not ping. If you go back and correct the spelling and do not add a fresh signature, it will not ping. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:30, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

@Cityside189: There is no reason to use it when you post to a user's own talk page. An edit to their talk page already gives a bigger notification. The basic form is user:username ("user" is case insensitive), but it can be added by a template instead of directly. The English Wikipedia has many templates which does this, for example {{ping|username}}. If you use square wikilink brackets and not a template then "user:" must always be included. Templates for the purpose add "user:" so it must be omitted when those templates are used. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:38, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for all the replies. So just making an any sort of edit on their talk page notifies that user. FWIW, my observation is that the number of keystrokes required to notify a user is the same in [[user:username]] vs. {{ping|username}}. Is there a common courtesy or civility that would suggest the use of the former vs. the latter? --Cityside189 (talk) 17:09, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't think it's a civility or etiquette issue at all, but is just dependent on what makes sense in the context, what is convenient, and of course what a user is accustomed to. Note that the ping template's output is not the same as just using a linked username (though {{U|name}} is), so the number of keystrokes comparison may not be applicable. If I wanted to start this post with "hi Cityside189"... and ping you at the same time by linking "Cityside189" to your userpage it would not make sense to use the {{ping}}/{{reply to}}/etc. template because it formats as @Cityside189, and "hi at Cityside189" does not parse.

So I would use "hi [[User:Cityside189|Cityside189]]" instead. But I could alternatively use "hi {{U|Cityside189}}", and that would save me the time of typing out "[[User:Cityside189|Cityside189]]" even though the result is identical (at least in read mode). On the other hand, there's often no need whatever for me to actually type that, because I can just copy the userpage link code from your signature if I'm responding to a pre-existing post (and the person has a compliant signature code); copy and paste is actually much faster than typing anything, at least for me. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 20:44, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Imagemap

Hey guys, I need help figuring out how to use an imagemap, specifically, this one. The size of each box is either too big, too small, or is't centered in the right place. I really need help on this. By the way, does it matter if I shrink or stretch it, or does it just use the original dimensions?

Appreciate it, thanks! Dunkleosteus77 ^{(push to talk)} 20:36, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Dunkleosteus77. mw:Extension:ImageMap lists graphic tools which can help but I don't know them and this was a simple 3x3 grid of a 1024x768 image so I just divided the sides by 3 to hit the whole photos, and made this by hand:

It uses the original dimensions of the image so you can change the size. I only made one wide rectangle for the photo with two killer whales. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:08, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your help. I appreciate it! Dunkleosteus77 ^{(push to talk)} 22:35, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Questions regarding notability and referencing

Hi!

So I was making an infobox earlier for the Algerian National Office of Statistics and while entering the name of the minister, I found that it is a redlink. Now, I understand how the current minister would be considered noteworthy enough to create (at the very least) a stub page about him, but what about the previous ministers? I noticed that the Ministry of Finance page is also missing an infobox and I was thinking of making one, looking at similar governmental agencies for other countries I find that some of the infoboxes contain the names of previous ministers/the inaugural minister. If that minister doesn't have a page already, is s/he considered noteworthy enough for me to create a stub article (at least) about him/her?

Also, the same question would be regarding the Managing Director of the National Office of Statistics, his name is a redlink as well. Should I fix this by creating a page about him or simply remove the link?

With regards to the incumbent Minister of Finance, would the CV published by the Ministry on its website count as a reliable general reference for his article? What about his picture, can I use a picture published by the Ministry - is it considered public domain? How do I find out if it is public domain?

Browsing the NOS website I came across an Excel document with recent statistics on Algeria, how do I use this as a reference to update the numbers relevant articles? I read on the website itself that the statistics issued by the Office are considered in the public domain (need to verify these by double-checking the French, I used a quick translation tool to go through the site).

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the wall of text! RubyALG (talk) 03:44, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

• The National Office of Statistics does not appear to be really a ministry in the usual sense, but a subdivision of the Ministry of Finance. The Minister of Finance would be notable; the head of a subdivision of the ministry of Finance would usually not be, unless there are other bases for notability. The most likely for a political figure is having been a member of the country's legislature. DGG ( talk ) 16:26, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

DGG, thank you for your answer! Actually I meant that when I was adding the name of the Minister of Finance to the NOS infobox, I found that his name was a redlink, he seems to have been appointed within the last couple of years, and nobody had updated the info on Wikipedia. The NOS is under the MoF but it's independent in terms of location and leadership. I will look further into the background of the director to figure out if he's notable in any other way.

What about the previous Ministers of Finance - those who aren't on Wikipedia? Are they still considered notable enough to have their own pages, or since they're no longer in their posts, they're not that notable?

Can you answer my concerns regarding referencing the CV, pictures from the Ministry's site, and the Excel document I got from NOS, as well? Thanks again! RubyALG (talk) 19:01, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, our practice is that every holder of a government ministry or head of department in every country in the world is an appropriate topic for an article. It's not a matter of policy, but of practice. A useful summary of practice as determined by consensus over many AfDs is at WP:COMMON; on this point it says: "Elected and appointed political figures at the national cabinet level are generally regarded as notable, as are usually those at the major sub-national level (US state, Canadian province, Japanese prefecture, etc.). Sub-cabinet officials (assistant secretary, commissioner, etc.) are usually considered notable, especially if they have had otherwise notable careers." The first sentence is true; I think the second sentence is not actually our practice, and the proper wording of what we do is "sometimes" not "usually". For Government Ministers in countries or which we have extensive easily accessible sources, there's usually no difficulty in meeting the GNG for cabinet officers. But for those where nobody has done the work to find it, and all we really have so far is the name and the dates, they might as well remain redlinks. DGG ( talk ) 20:58, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

DGG, thanks again! So I'm planning on creating an article for the incumbent Minister of Finance first, and then moving on to fill in any gaps in the previous ministers. Can I use the CV published by the Ministry of Finance as a basis for my article? Or would it be considered a not-neutral source? RubyALG (talk) 19:04, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, thats the usual way we make suchy articles. But it would help enormously if you also found a newspaper article or two on each appointment. DGG ( talk ) 00:50, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

My first article submission declined 2 times... plz help!

I attempted to write my first article on a guitar player that I really admire, but it's been rejected two times already. First time because there were no proper footnotes, and second time because of unreliable sources. The thing is that the main sources I've used are independent 3rd party newspapers. Here's the article, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Angel_%22Pato%22_Garc%C3%ADa Please help me! Highfifan (talk) 21:35, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

@Highfifan: Have you read the basic criteria for a stand alone article? There is a three prong requirement, not just that someone is mentioned in a reliable source, but that there is significant coverage of the subject in that source (which is not related to the source). simply working with someone famous is not enough. You might also find something in the special criteria for WP:ARTISTs -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:10, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

@TheRedPenOfDoom:This reminds me: I believe the individual members of The Donnas aren't notable enough to merit their own articles. How do I proceed? Dyspeptic skeptic (talk) 02:32, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

How to retain the wikipedia page I created for my client

I recently created a wikipedia page for my client. How to retain it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddharth_Balachandran

I am facing criteria for speedy deletion as message Muthukumargv1977 (talk) 05:41, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Read this Wikipedia:Notability (people). --112.79.37.141 (talk) 06:10, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Muthukumargv1977. First of all, if the subject of the article you have written is your "client" as you have stated, then you are a paid editor, and Wikipedia's Terms of Service obligate you to declare your Conflict of interest more prominently than here at the Teahouse. I suggest that you declare that you are a paid editor on your user page, and remove the self promotional content. Secondly, the article is unreferenced and our Policy on biographies of living people requires that such biographies be referenced. Unreferenced BLPs must be deleted promptly. Third, you began the article with: "Siddharth, in his role as Managing Director of the Bumga Group, is responsible for strategy formulation and implementation, as well as continuous improvement of internal policies and expansion plans of the group. And that is not an easy job, considering that the Bumga Group is involved in different verticals of the building and construction sector." Those sentences are not encyclopedic and are not neutral, and are promotional marketing jargon that belong in a company brochure rather than a neutrally written encyclopedia article. Every single trace of this promotional puffery must be removed from this article and excluded from any future articles you write. Please read and study Your first article and follow all of its instructions. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:46, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

@Muthukumargv1977: While learning to edit Wikipedia-style is hard for most people, for people from the PR and marketing world it is nearly impossible as they are so used to fluffery, jargon and promotion in every bit of their day-to-day work that trying to write in accordance with Wikipedia's WP:NPOV policy is completely foreign reality. Its like trying to have a mathematician work without "1" or "x" . -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:39, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

How to filter only the pages with new edits

In the Special:Contributions page, one may search for the one's contributions. There are some filtering options, but they does not help me find what I want. I am interested in the pages that have newer edits after my last edits to them. In other words, I would like it to hide all the pages whose latest revisions are my edits. This would be helpful to find out those talk pages with new comments and articles updated by other editors. Note that the option "Only show edits that are latest revisions" is doing quite opposite to what I mean above. Can anyone help?--Quest for Truth (talk) 08:27, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

French equivalent of the Teahouse

Is there an equivalent of this teahouse in the French language section of wikipedia? StarEye2000 (talk) 09:05, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I do not think so, but there is a French equivalent of the Help Desk, which can be found at fr:Wikipedia:Questions techniques. — Bilorv_(talk)^(c)(e) 10:47, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello StarEye2000 and welcome to the Teahouse. The French equivalent of this page is called Le Bistro. Most Wikipedias in other languages have some sort of cozy forum to discuss things. Depending on what is considered a nice friendly place in that culture, the names vary. Many are called Café. w.carter-Talk 11:37, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

@StarEye2000: Wikipedia languages are edited independently with different practices so it can depend what is considered equivalent. Under "Languages" in the left pane of Wikipedia:Teahouse is a link to fr:Wikipédia:Forum des nouveaux. Click "Wikidata item" under "Tools" to see wikidata:Q11059110 where the interlanguage links are maintained. fr:Wikipédia:Le Bistro is paired with Wikipedia:Village pump. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:46, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Regarding Wikipedia page

Hello!!! I hope you are in good mood, I need your help, to include Idrees ul haq into Wikipedia, I made an article which is being repelled by an author, The article is basically for a person who is renowned in our state ( Jammu and Kashmir India ), I wish you help me... I would be waiting for your reply... Jkinnovators (talk) 09:57, 6 September 2015 (UTC)Jkinnovators

Jkinnovators, The article does not seem to clearly establish the notability of the subject, nor does it discuss him in much detail. Additional high-quality reliable sources that are independent of the subject would be helpful, and the article should not read like a resume or CV. Do not use blogs or personal websites as sources, nor publications without a good reputation for fact checking, please. DES ^(talk) 14:22, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Also, if, as it seems, you have a conflict of interest you should be very careful in editing the article at all. Please read our conflict of interest guideline. DES ^(talk) 14:34, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Reflist templates

Can someone explain to me the difference between the {{Reflist|2}} template and the {{Reflist|30em}} template? For me, they seem to display identical results on the page, but I wonder if that would be the case for other browser configurations, especially for mobile-device users... Basically I'm wondering which one I should use, and why. Thanks! —GrammarFascist (talk) 06:16, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, GrammarFascist. The official answer is that the 30em version is preferred, as it is claimed that it produces the best display on the widest variety of devices. I have a slightly different view of things. I edit most commonly using the desktop site on an HTC Android smart phone held horizontally. For me the 30em template displays references lists inconsistently. If the list has more than 10 references, 11 will display as 1, 12 as 2, and so on, and some information is truncated. But {{Reflist|2}} displays reference lists in two properly formatted columns for me. I do not understand the underlying technical issues, so take my observation as initial and provisional. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:44, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi GrammarFascist. We call it the same template {{Reflist}} with different parameters 2 or 30em. The template has documentation at Template:Reflist. The discussed parameters are mentioned at Template:Reflist#Columns. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:55, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Please use 30em, using bare numbers like 2 or 3 is deprecated now. — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 15:23, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Jeraphine Gryphon I've use the reflist template with the two column parameter dozens of times. While I have occasionally seen the 30em option used I have the same experience as Cullen328 - I often haven't liked the look. I see the note at the template documentation that the two column option is deprecated but I don't see any discussion of the problems identified by Cullen. How can we make sure they are addressed because I am not happy about using an inferior option.--S Philbrick(Talk) 15:38, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

If you don't agree with this then it's probs best to bring it up on the template's talk page. Maybe someone there knows where to find the initial discussion. — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 16:14, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Hey GrammarFascist. To answer your initial question, you may not see any difference if you're using a relatively small screen width, but for someone using a large screen width, the major difference in display, AFAIK, is that using 30em results in any number of columns "appropriate" to the screen, whereas "2" forces two columns. Using my large screen on my desktop computer (where my browser window is set to full screen), an article using 30em displays 4 or 5 columns depending on the text size I have set. It also only displays one column if I drag my browser screen very narrow. If set to "2", it forces two columns at any size.

More generally regarding the comments above, and possibly a starting point if further discussion is to be had – maybe at the Village pump technical – there's quite a bit of information to glean from Template talk:Reflist/Archive 22#Basis 30em standard for multiple column, including links to prior, related threads.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:15, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

How can I Upload Images to Cartoons, Movie posters, video game covers, etc and make it look good with a caption?"

Hello, this is Buddyboy521. A few weeks ago I uploaded a image to the page The Three Little Wolves (film) but the caption didn't look good, but thankfully another user fixed it for me. I just want to know how I can upload images to pages like those and make the caption and image look good. Thank you, Buddyboy521 (talk) 17:35, 6 September 2015 (UTC)Buddyboy521

How to prove notability and make sure a page sticks around?

I recently started a bio page for the graphic designer Michael Gericke. Our page has since been flagged as possibly not being notable enough to keep. I've also been asked to mention my own conflict of interest in editing the page (I work for Michael).

I'm wondering how to make sure the page sticks around and also how to expand the bio with additional information and sources. He is a notable designer; he is a senior partner of Pentagram, widely considered to be one of the most important design firms in the world. Many if not most of our other partners have bios on Wikipedia. He has designed many iconic logos, symbols and graphic systems. He's a member of the Alliance Graphique Internationale, the association of the world's top designers.

I've helped edit pages in the past but have never started one of my own.

Thanks for any help!

Kurtck (talk) 23:52, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Kurtck and welcome to the Teahouse. Notable means already known, having been noticed enough to have been written about (or broadcast about) elsewhere. You need to provide several sources (references) that talk about him in detail, not just a mention. They need to be reliable sources (books, newspapers, not blogs.) They need to be independent of him and of Pentagram. See WP:42. The article has lots of references but most of them just to show existence of things or about things that don't have much to do with him such as the history of a company that he previously worked for. Look for articles in the design literature discussing designers that are independent of press releases. StarryGrandma (talk) 01:18, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Kurtck. One approach would be to forget absolutely everything you know about Gericke, and write your draft article entirely from third-party sources: if you can't find an independent source for a piece of information, you don't put it in, period. If that approach generates an article (rather than a collection of a few unrelated facts) then you can judiciously add some factual information from non-independent sources. --ColinFine (talk) 18:51, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Unauthorized removal of images!

Hi, i am the editor of the Wikipedia page of "DJKAM". I have all the legal rights from this artist to use his pict materials. Someone just removed all images from the article about a week ago!!?? Can someone please help me with this? The artist got very upset with this!!! Many thanks for support, P. Pati Rojas (talk) 09:45, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Pati Rojas, you are not the editor of that or any other page. Neither is anyone else. No one needs your authorization to edit it. The images were removed because they are not free, and no non-free images may be uploaded to commons. Also, external links should be removed from the article prose. DES ^(talk) 14:41, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for the proper procedure. Note that the artist must grant permission for not just Wikipedia but anyone in the world to use the images for any purpose, including selling them, and grant permission for anyone to create altered versions of them. DES ^(talk) 14:49, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I have also removed the massive number of spamlinks to I-tunes, and other external links from the bodytext of the article - we are not here to boost your sales. - Arjayay (talk) 15:55, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Pati Rojas. It is perhaps worth making the point to you that Wikipedia has almost no interest in what the artist (or the subject of any other article) wants, or says about themselves. Wikipedia is almost exclusively interested in what other people, unconnected with the subject, have published about the subject in reliable sources. --ColinFine (talk) 19:00, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

submitted for approval

I finishing an article but am not sure if it is submitted for approval. I searched Wikipedia and it hasn't shown up yet. Am I forgetting to do something? Comicsutragame (talk) 18:53, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello @Comicsutragame:

Are you talking about this page User:Comicsutragame/sandbox? If so, you had not submitted it. I added a flag so you can press the green button when you are ready. As it stands now, it will be either declined for failing to meet the basic requirements for a stand alone article or be immediately deleted as overtly promotional.

Please also read our conflict of interest rules. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:02, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

That stinks. Thank you. Comicsutragame (talk) 19:05, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, it may "stink" from the position of someone who was hoping to utilize Wikipedia as an advertising platform. However, from the position of someone who wants to read/create encyclopedic content, it's pretty necessary and doesn't "stink" at all! -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:11, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Footer

I prefer using sfn for citations in WP. However, I'm still confused about the words to be used for sections. For reflist is it notes / references or some other word? For cite book is it references / sources / bibliography or some other word? Which word to be used where? What's the difference among these words? What's there so much inconsistency on WP regarding this? Isn't standardisation better? If it should be standardised, is there a possibility of a bot for this? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 19:37, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Capankajsmilyo. The most common usage I have seen is "Notes" for the "reflist" part and "References" for the list of books themselves. Wikipedia is actually many different encyclopedias - popular culture, geographic, natural history, military, sports, science, biography, and so on. Different areas have different styles of doing references, which is why we have so many difference ways of making references. Standardization isn't always better. And people are always better than bots in reading the source and filling in details of references. StarryGrandma (talk) 20:30, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Görnau, see (Zgierz)

Hello, my problem is, don't can redirect this. Who can do it, because the existing redirect is wrong. My attempts fails...Thanks in advance and regards -- Sweepy (talk) 18:33, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I'd love to help but I don't fully understand the problem. Which article should be a redirect, and what should it point to? --Ashenai (talk) 18:43, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Görnau (the German name for Zgierz can't be redirected to Zgierz, because the redirect goes to Gornau and is wrong! I hope, you understand now. Thanks and regards -- Sweepy (talk) 18:52, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I see! Interesting. I have created the redirect for Görnau. The problem wasn't that it redirected to Gornau (there was no redirect), it was that the search box apparently doesn't accept diacritics, so when you search for Görnau it thinks you're looking for Gornau. The link should work and redirect correctly, though. Cheers! --Ashenai (talk) 18:58, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Many thanks, now it's correct, congratulation for understanding and helping! Is it able for you to correct/let correct this problem? All the best for you in future. People like you are indispensable for the en-WP (or others)...regards -- Sweepy (talk) 20:40, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind words! I'm not a MediaWiki developer, so no, I can't fix the behavior of the search box. I will report it, though. Happy editing! --Ashenai (talk) 21:01, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Citation vs Cite Book

What's the difference between the two? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 20:20, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Capankajsmilyo. In general, we use "citation" to describe the various processes and tools that we use to generate references to reliable sources. These citations can be created manually, but many editors use citation templates, which are fill-in-the-blanks forms to create standardized references. We have many such templates. One is the generic, multi-purpose citation template. You can see a list of many of these templates at WP:Citation templates. There you will find two versions of cite books templates. For a more in-depth discussion of these processes, please see Referencing for beginners. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 20:47, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, is there any field supported by cite book and not by citation? If all book fields like name, last, first, ISBN etc are supported by citation as well whats the use of cite book template -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 20:52, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I also wants to know the difference between reflist using }{ and references using >< -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 20:52, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Pankaj Jain. {{Citation}} formats citations slightly differently from {{Cite book}}, {{Cite web}} and the other Cite xxx templates. It uses "CS2" style rather than "CS1". In my view the differences are fairly minor. The Cite xxx templates existed before the Citation template was created. I believe it was an attempt to replace all of them with a single template, but it never caught on as widely as the creator hoped.

{{reflist}} formats references in slightly smaller type than the references tag by default, and has some additional options. Otherwise it performs the same functions. It is now very widely used, and one rarely sees a references tag in an article. DES ^(talk) 21:08, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

If that is the case, shouldn't {{cite book}} and < references/ > be depreciated and replaced with newer templates using a bot? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 21:18, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

There is the ROI question: What is gained by the process? Who has to relearn what? How easy would it be to get a bot to make the changes? Are enough people interested enough to make the changes required technically, behaviorally and culturally? -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 21:29, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

What is ROI? Sorry, but I'm not familiar with WP shortforms. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 21:33, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

that is not a Wikipedia jargon, that is businessspeak. "Return on investment".-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 21:35, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Also, Capankajsmilyo, among those editors who do care greatly about details of citation formats, many prefer CS1 format. Also, the use of Cite book, Cite news, Cite web, etc can help document the editor's intention. Moreover, many tools such as ProveIt are designed to generate Cite xxx templates. I doubt that approval for such a bot would be obtained at WP:BRA. As to the references tag, it is part of the MediaWiki software itself, and indeed reflist generates a references tag internally, so it can't/won't be deprecated. It is common for an editor to replace such a tag with a call to {{reflist}}. DES ^(talk) 21:38, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

interlanguage links

I am wondring how to link a page in a certain language with a page in another language with the same object. I have created a page about the famous egyptian composer Riad Al Sunbati in English, and I know there is asimilar page in arabic named رياض السنباطي and other pages in differnt other languages, but i didnt know how to link this with that, i have read a bit in the help:interlanguage links, but i didnt see what they described, may be its because im working on my mobile, but i didnt see anything on the right side as they said, if anyone knows about this and can help me, please answer me(and sorry for my mistakes in writing) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moueenneeuom3.14 (talk • contribs) 00:56, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

• This is handled in Wikidata. I have made the link, so you should now see the interlanguage links. --Randykitty (talk) 21:58, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Vandalism

An article I created has been vandalized with some rude remarks that I removed. I am trying to figure out how to request semi=protection. I am told to make the request on the article talk page. I do not see how to add anything to the article talk page.

Also, I just noticed that the talk page says the article is in the category of biographies of living persons. The person who the article about has passed away. In fact, the person was dead before I created the article. What should I do to change this?

Dchittur (talk) 19:35, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi! You can request semi-protection at Requests for page protection. However, a page will only be semi-protected if the vandalism is persistent, and comes from many different users. Neither of these seems to be the case for your article, as far as I can tell (assuming you're talking about James Taranik.) Occasional incidental vandalism is common, and should simply be reverted, and the vandal warned on their talk page.

You can edit the article talk page the same way you edit the article, by clicking the "edit" button on top. You can get to the talk page by clicking the "Talk" button at the top of the article (or by following my link, if it's the James Taranik talk page you're looking for.)

Also, you seem to be involved in an edit war on that article. Please stop it. If you have an issue with another editor's contributions, discuss it on the article talk page, or on the editor's talk page, instead of edit warring with them. Thank you! --Ashenai (talk) 20:36, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi:

I am trying to discuss this with the warring editor, but he has been blocked for sockpuppetry, so I cannot send him a message. I do not know how to stop him. Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks. Dchittur (talk) 20:39, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

He has not been blocked for sockpuppetry (or for any other reason, I checked the block log), and I'm confused why you think he was. --Ashenai (talk) 20:45, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

When I click on his name, it takes me to a page that says he is blocked for sockpuppetry.

Dchittur (talk) 20:47, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

He is now leaving me messages on my user page, but I cannot see how to respond to him. I found another page with a slightly different name and left a message for him, if that is the same person.

Dchittur (talk) 20:49, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Are you NTHEP?

Dchittur (talk) 20:50, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

No, I am Ashenai. Also, you appear to have found the correct user talk page, so that's good! I'm still mystified whose name you clicked on to get to a block message, but it was definitely not the editor in question (unless there's some extremely odd bug I don't know about.) He is an experienced editor in good standing; please listen to what he has to say! --Ashenai (talk) 20:55, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

There are dozens of impostor accounts created under variations of my name that have been blocked as socks. If User:Dchittur is attempting to write on my User page rather than my User talk page, they wouldnt be able to because that has been create protected. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 21:33, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

OK, let me explain. If you go to the History page and click on his name on one of his revisions, you get to a page that says "this user does not exist" Then it says, Do you mean "TheRedPenOfDooms?" Click on that and you go to a page that has been banned for sockpuppetry.

User NTHP has gone into the page and written that the death date has, indeed been cited, as I wrote to the editor in question. I thought it was you helping the warring editor understand. I guess it was another user helping the warring editor understand.

Now the warring editor has left another message on the article page with information that I cannot decipher. I do not know how to reply to these messages to ask for clarification. Can you understand what he is telling me or explain to me how to reply so I can ask for clarification?

I believe you are a volunteer and thank you for your assistance.

Dchittur (talk) 21:14, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

@Dchuttir: I moved your comment as it appeared to be in the wrong section. Rubbish computer 21:40, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

@Dchuttir: User:TheRedPenOfDoom is a very experienced editor who doesn't have a user page. User:TheRedPenOfDooms- note the s- is a banned sockpuppet, probably set up by somebody trying to imitate, mock or annoy TheRedPenOfDoom. Rubbish computer 21:42, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

He's helping you: giving you potential sources, and saying the article's subject may not be WP:NOTABLE. What happened with this edit war is, you added content without a reference: you need a reference to do that. You're not in any trouble but technically, if you were the second user to revert, you started it. I see how you confused him with a sock now, but he is not. Rubbish computer 21:47, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Alrighty, I checked out TheRedPenOfDoom's messages. Basically, his concerns are that it is not clear if James Taranik, the subject of the article, is notable enough to be included in Wikipedia. In addition, he would like you to provide sources for various claims (such as the subject's birth date.)

To understand what we mean by notability, please read Wikipedia:Notability.

It's important to understand that we are an encyclopedia, and we can only include information if it meets our criteria for notability and verifiability. Articles have to prove that their subjects are notable, and that the statements about them are generally agreed to be true. This last part is what sources are about.

If you can give me a more concrete example of what you're having trouble with, I can probably give you more specific advice! You can also talk to me personally if you like, here is my talk page. Simply edit it (click "Edit" up top) with any questions you may have. Don't worry about messing anything up, just let me know what you're having trouble with and I'll see if I can help. --Ashenai (talk) 21:59, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Where can I learn wiki markup

I want to change my signature to look cooler. So said The Great Wiki Lord. (talk) 21:53, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Check out Help:Wiki markup! --Ashenai (talk) 22:10, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

TheGreatWikiLord, also put this {{talkheader|search=yes}} at the very top of your Talk page and your Talk page will have more functionality. Cheers! Checkingfax (talk) 22:17, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. So said The Great Wiki Lord. (talk) 22:19, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Please help! Submission declined by 3rd time

Dear Teahouse members,

I would be more than grateful if somebody may bear a hand with my article. It has been already 3 times declined and I have always contacted with the reviewers due to understand the problems and try to solve them.

This is the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Kaiho_Sangyo

First I was said the article was written like an advertisement, I could correct it, then the Timeline of History had not reliable references, I could correct it, and now the article has not formal tone...

English is not my mother tongue, but I am trying my best in write it in a proper tone.

Please, I need some help!!!

Thank you very much in advance for your advice and time.

Kind regards,

Alejandro R Moreno (talk) 03:11, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Alejandro R Moreno hello and welcome to The Teahouse. The part of the article before the timeline looks like it could be accepted. That's just my opinion. However, it's not clear that all facts are referenced. Using the same reference several times might help. Each paragraph should have at least one reference. There are numerous problems with spelling, grammar and commas, but if your first language is not English, that's understandable. These could be corrected. And of course you could link words and ideas to other Wikipedia articles. Like [[this]]. Or [[That|this]].— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:30, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Vchimpanzee Thank you very much for your advice. I was thinking in using same references several times, but I was not sure if that was proper or not. I will try also to link words to other Wikipedia articles. I hope it will work this time! Thank you again for your help!--Alejandro R Moreno (talk) 00:19, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Names of kind-hearted/helpful Administrators

I am a new editor. As wikipedia is a collaborative project i gave barnstars to two administrators few days ago. They didn't thank my edit or replied. I checked their contributions and found that they have edited after that ignoring my message. I want the names of those administrators who help and guide new editors. I am not logged in, as users can see my contributions and find out the names of those administrators.112.79.38.76 (talk) 04:18, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, IP editor 112.79.38.76. Did you have a productive interaction with those administrators that led you to give them the barnstars? Did you give the barnstars, which are just keystrokes and electrons, with the expectation of receiving thanks? Do you think that the recipients of barnstars are obligated to thank the giver?

The Teahouse is a place where experienced editors (whether or not they are administrators) help and guide new editors. Administrators have no special tools to help and guide new editors. Administrative functions have to do with deleting inappropriate articles, blocking disruptive editors, removing copyright violations and libel, and cleaning up a variety of messes on the encyclopedia. In my experience, a large percentage of administrators are helpful to good faith editors, but their role requires them to be tough and businesslike with disruptive editors. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:45, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar is really a way of giving thanks, not getting it. If you need help or guidance then you're in the right place, though. What would you like help with? --Ashenai (talk) 05:41, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Can someone help getting past the drafting process?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:The_United_Videogame_Raffle_Federation — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.91.187 (talk) 07:09, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Already answered at the Help Desk - Arjayay (talk) 09:07, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Userbox clutter

Is there a way I can keep my userboxes aligned even when I add new ones? They're a bit all over the place at the moment. Thanks, Rubbish computer 15:03, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

See here: Template:Userboxtop. (Add the userboxes after that template and then add {{userboxbottom}} at the end.) — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 15:22, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

@Jeraphine Gryphon: Thanks, but I've already done that and it still isn't working. Rubbish computer 19:31, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

@Rubbish computer: You might want to remove the "multicol break" templates if you want them all in one column. — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 05:04, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

What about this? — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 05:06, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

@Jeraphine Gryphon: Thanks again, but they're still unevenly on one side: it could be only like that on mobile, though. Rubbish computer 06:45, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

@Jeraphine Gryphon: Sorted now, thanks. --Rubbish computer 09:31, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Using Templates

Creating a page using a template (specifically school), and the result has numerous "if" statements (parser functions?), after the infobox categories. This does not match up with the Help pages, and I am confused how to use them.

For example, instead of "Hours in a school day = ..."

There is

label119 = Hours in school day

data119 = if : hours_in_day

Should I be removing the if function? Should I be defining hours_in_day elsewhere on the page?

Thanks, teahouse hosts!

Sjcraig (talk) 12:10, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Sjcraig, welcome to the Teahouse. {{School}} and most other templates should never use subst:. Only use subst if the documentation says to use it. I have copied Template:Infobox school#Basic syntax to St. Joseph Regional Catholic School instead so the parameters can be filled out in the article, but it would be better to start with a draft at Wikipedia:Article wizard. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:32, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks PrimeHunter. I will keep working on it! Sjcraig (talk) 12:34, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Cancelling an article submission

Hello! :-) Yesterday I submitted two article stubs related to a company and one of its subsidiaries. They are both in the submission queue. After some thought, I think that the article about the subsidiary is unnecessary. Is there a way to abort the submission? StarEye2000 (talk) 10:44, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Do not cancel them... Watch them fail, observe the disintegration of dreams, the crushing of hope, the death of desire...

...or you could just undo the AfC template of the article of course. _Fortuna ^{Imperatrix Mundi} 10:48, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi StarEye2000. If you're not going to pursue the articles for creation submission because you think the the draft is unnecessary, ask for it to be deleted by placing this code at the top of it: {{db-g7}} and then saving the page. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:25, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Arttalk1984 Neutral Tone

Please tell me which parts of the article are not neutral? Arttalk1984 (talk) 09:12, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Do we assume you are talking about Draft:Nahem Shoa ?- it would help to know - Arjayay (talk) 09:38, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi. I've responded to this editor on my talk page, where he also left a message. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:03, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

CSS and JavaScript

Hello! I want to ask if I can have a sub page of .css and .js in order to use it in template.
Actually, I don't need it for this project, but a sister project. Since the software is same, I guess I will get a quick response. Please do tell me how can I import that CSS and JavaScript for the template.
14.139.242.195 (talk) 06:39, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, IP editor 14.139.242.195. Please use pages here on English Wikipedia only for improving English Wikipedia. To work on a sister project, use pages on that project. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:42, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

@Cullen328: Unfortunately, those discussion pages don't have much viewers.
14.139.242.195 (talk) 06:55, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

I am sorry to hear that but my request still stands. Pages on this project are for improving this project only. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:59, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Anyway, .css and .js pages cannot be imported by a template. There might be other ways to achieve whatever you want but it would depend on the specifics. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:32, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

arttalk1984 Citation, References, Footnotes?

I am a new editor as can be seen from the rejections of the article! I need HELP. (In addition, please format the citations as per WP:CIT before resubmitting. Onel5969 TT me 15:23, 5 September 2015 (UTC).) I thought all my (citation) references were correct as they had the opening and closing tags on them. I had clicked on the reference icon on the bar. What do I have to do? Or should some be Footnotes and if so how to format them for Wiki correctly? Arttalk1984 (talk) 09:08, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

I was wondering too: There are tools which helps me to add references as cite book, cite web and also there is Proveit. There is no tool under Gadget tab which allows editors to add footnotes directly. References are very easy to add. Adding notes and footnotes, Bibliography is very difficult. Action Hero 11:27, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

I've responded to this editor on my talk page, where he also left a comment. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:06, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Onel5969's reply is about User:Arttalk1984's comment on his talk page. Action Hero 14:47, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Bob Welch (musician) has a broken table

not my metier. Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 16:03, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

 Done - a matter of a " |} " in the middle of the table instead of a " |- " - Arjayay (talk) 16:22, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Talk page tag templates?

I've seen a tag on a few article talk pages reminding folks with COI to not edit the article directly. What's the template for it? (Or, even better, what's the secret search trick I should use to find it in our help files?)

I have the reference list for article tags. I can't find a corresponding list for talk pages. I also can't remember any articles that have this specific tag, which is my usual go-to for things I don't know. Thanks! Alaynestone (talk) 14:45, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Alaynestone - please see Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace - there are several sections to this page - standard and specific warnings - I find the quickest way to find the one I want is to use a word search for items like "COI" or "spam" - Arjayay (talk) 14:49, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

I believe that the OP was asking not about warnings on a user talk page but on an article talk page. Perhaps the template being referred to is {{COI editnotice}}. To find it I merely used a search for COI and specified the template namespace. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:28, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Good point - apologies Alaynestone, I missed that.
The main list for Article talk pages is Wikipedia:Template messages/Talk namespace and the main list of standardized discussion templates is Wikipedia:List of discussion templates.
Interestingly, neither of those includes the COI template referred to by David Biddulph - perhaps it should be added ? - The COI template does, however, appear in Wikipedia:Template messages/Cleanup - Arjayay (talk) 16:55, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

YES. Thank you! That's also probably why I didn't find it (I was solely looking for that one thing and getting lost in links and wiki terminology). I'll see about adding it later if I can do so without destroying any tables. Alaynestone (talk) 17:28, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Help me improve content to reflect neutral style

Hello Roger, As you would have noticed the article that I submitted was declined due to lack of neutral approach in writing. Is it because, the references that I have used in the article, are not enough to qualify as independent, reliable, published sources? Appreciate if could help me figure out the ideal sources that I can use as cite references or any other specific areas that needs improvement. Thanks for your helping me edit this article.Cooey Tech (talk) 05:04, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Cooey Tech. I am not Roger and questions here at the Teahouse are answered by anyone who volunteers. All I had to do was read the first sentence of your draft, which includes the claim that the company is a "healthcare technology enabler providing end-to-end health monitoring solutions that empower patients to safely and securely manage health information from a single spot." That is marketing and promotional and advertising language which is the exact opposite of how an encyclopedia article should be written. Remove every trace of it. Any article must be written from the Neutral point of view and must be based almost entirely on what Independent, reliable sources say about the company. Your user name hints that you are affiliated with the company. If so, our terms of service require that you declare your Conflict of interest openly. Your account name may be in conflict with our username policy. If you work for the company, it is incumbent upon you to familiarize yourself with our paid editing policies, and comply with them. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:55, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Roger is Dodger67 the reviewer of Draft:Cooey Technologies. Cooey Tech, along with changing your name (I have left instructions on your talk page), contact him at User talk:Dodger67.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 19:08, 7 September 2015 (UTC) ‎

Draft:Greger_Huttu was declined due to notability and verifiable references.

I submitted an article recently and it was declined due to notability and verifiable references. Even though the subject has been featured in an international magazine and has had several articles written about them on many websites, which i've already referenced, my submission was still declined. Sim racing is a huge part of e-sports and the subject is the most well known sim racer in the world.

Can someone please have a look at the article and give me some clear pointers on how I can improve it? Any help is appreciated.

Vinodh Moodley (talk) 19:09, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

The basic criteria is here - basically we only care about coverage in reliable sources not random websites. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:18, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

The subject is involved in e-sports and by it's nature, is mainly published in electronic media only. Websites are therefore the main source for references. However, I did add an article from Top Gear magazine as a reference if that is considered a reliable source. Also, please don't state that my references are "random websites" since any website can be considered random if you show no interest in the subject matter. The websites that I referenced are mainly websites dealing with sim racing and are far from random.

Vinodh Moodley (talk) 19:34, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

You can keep banging your head against the wall wailing: WHY IS MY ARTICLE NOT BEING ACCEPTED - I HAVE LINKED TO WEBSITES!?!?! or you can read WP:RS and WP:42 and realize that random websites do not matter at Wikipedia and focus your efforts on finding the reliable websites with reputation for fact checking, accuracy and editorial oversight. If there are not such Reliable Sources that cover the subject, then the subject is not suitable for an article for Wikipedia. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:02, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

I was told that the Teahouse is a friendly place to learn to edit Wikipedia but your attitude is far from helpful. You keeping bringing up "random websites" but cannot explain to me why they are indeed random since they deal with the subject matter. Also, i'm not "wailing" but genuinely asking for pointed advice on improving my article. Linking me to the same sources on what makes a subject notable is not actually helping but just brushing me off with a minimal amount of effort. If you don't actually want to help, please refrain from replying to my question. Vinodh Moodley (talk) 20:15, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Vinodh Moodley, "Random" was perhaps an unfortunate term, but what is needed to establish notability for a Wikipedia article is sources which have reputations for editorial control and accuracy, publications where someone stands between the writer and the public. One-person sites, fan sites, and blogs, for example, are none of them useful to establish notability. Some of the sources you link to at Draft:Greger Huttu seem to be vendor sites, which are generally disfavored here. Others seem to be mere lists of event results, which even if reliable do not add significantly to notability. Yet others seem to be closely associated with the subject of the article and so are not independent. DES ^(talk) 20:15, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. I did include a link to one magazine article but it probably isn't enough. Finding reputable websites that are up to Wikipedia's standards is going to be extremely difficult for this specific subject. The one article I was hoping to find that was directly related to the magazine article has been removed. I'll keep editing the draft with the aim of finding more reliable sources. Vinodh Moodley (talk) 20:20, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Search and comparison software

Greetz Remind me what the piece of software / page we use to check for copy-vios, without just gogglng it. Cheers! _Fortuna ^{Imperatrix Mundi} 19:35, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi @Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi:, this is the one usually used for detecting copyvios. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:53, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

That's what I was looking for; many thanks Joseph. _Fortuna ^{Imperatrix Mundi} 20:25, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

How to become a member of Wikiproject Canine

I have edited several dog articles and am intetested in doing more, but I can't find the link to Wikiproject Canine to confer with other doggy editors. I'm interested in horses as well, and was able to join Wikiproject Equine very easily, but I'd like to join the dog project as well. Can anybody link me to it? I tried searching for all variations of Wikiproject Canine, but got a blank. Thanks. White Arabian mare (talk) 19:20, 7 September 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Welcome to the Teahouse. You'll see the link on the talk page of relevant articles; it's Wikipedia:WikiProject Dogs. --David Biddulph (talk) 20:01, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you.White Arabian mare (talk) 20:47, 7 September 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare