Examine individual changes
Appearance
This page allows you to examine the variables generated by the Edit Filter for an individual change.
Variables generated for this change
Variable | Value |
---|---|
Name of the user account (user_name ) | '75.147.4.237' |
Page ID (page_id ) | 8720253 |
Page namespace (page_namespace ) | 1 |
Page title without namespace (page_title ) | 'Santa Claus' |
Full page title (page_prefixedtitle ) | 'Talk:Santa Claus' |
Action (action ) | 'edit' |
Edit summary/reason (summary ) | '' |
Whether or not the edit is marked as minor (no longer in use) (minor_edit ) | false |
Old page wikitext, before the edit (old_wikitext ) | '{{User:MiszaBot/config
|maxarchivesize = 100K
|counter = 9
|minthreadsleft = 4
|algo = old(60d)
|archive = Talk:Santa Claus/Archive %(counter)d
}}
{{Skip to talk}}
{{Talk header |search=yes }}
{{Auto archiving notice |bot=MiszaBot I |age=2 |units=months }}
{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn
|target=/Archive index |mask=/Archive <#> |leading_zeros=0 |indexhere=yes |template=
}}
{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1=
{{WikiProject_Arctic|class=B|importance=Top|nested=yes}}
{{WikiProject Holidays|class=B|importance=High|Christmas=yes|Christmas-importance=Top}}
{{WikiProject Christianity |class=B |importance=Mid |christmas=yes|christmas-importance=Top |saints=yes|saints-importance=high }}
}}
{{FAQ|collapsed=no}}
{{Backwardscopy
|author = Surhone, L. M.
|year = 2010
|title = Sinterklaas: Netherlands Antilles, Santa Claus, culture of Belgium
|org = Betascript Publishing
|comments = {{OCLC|727199984}}, ISBN 9786130963446.
|bot=LivingBot
}}
== Odin/Woden ==
I think the pagan aspect is being given undue weight. Belief in Odin/Woden died out a thousand years before Santa Claus emerged, and there are plenty of examples of benevolent old men with beards, unnatural flight, and gift-giving in world culture - they don't all have to be connected with Christmas.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 08:33, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
:Odin continued to be known in folklore in some Germanic regions until well into the 19th century and beyond, and his connection to Yule is pretty hard to argue against (i.e. Old Norse names equating to Odin as the "long-bearded Yule-figure"). Chunks of the section could certainly use better referencing, however. [[User:Bloodofox|:bloodofox:]] ([[User talk:Bloodofox|talk]]) 08:46, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Well, Odin's still known today, but that's not evidence of the survival of a belief as indicated in the article. The picture of Odin given is a product of nineteenth-century Romanticism and historical research, not existing folklore. The fact that he had a beard seems to be taken as evidence that he is Santa's ancestor, which is extremely tenuous. And as I said there's a thousand years of history in there which seems to have left no evidence at all.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 22:18, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
:I agree that there is a problem with the section. It may not be technically [[WP:SYN|original synthesis]], but the only sources putting the two topics together are from the early 20th century, a time when people wrote a lot of nonsense about such claimed cultural continuities. For me the claim raises a red flag because of the centuries that appear to lie between Odin and Santa Claus with no apparent connecting figure. Early 20th century sources are not of the required high quality for such an exceptional claim.
:That doesn't necessarily mean that Odin cannot be mentioned at all, but he should get less space, and the connection should not be put forth in the voice of the article, but instead framed appropriately as an idea from the 19th/early 20th century. Or whatever later, more reliable sources say. [[User:Hans Adler|Hans]] [[User talk:Hans Adler|Adler]] 22:24, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
::The jump between Santa claus and Odin might be a bit more understandable if one doesn't take that jump, but instead considers the connection to be between the pre-germanic folklore of the Dutch, (a germanic country) and in this case the figure of [[sinterklaas]] (or rather [[Saint Nicholas]]), and the older germanic folklore's like the [[Wild Hunt]]. Remember that christianity in that area and era often "borrowed" popular pre-christian customs, and "christianized" them. Obviously making such an observation in earlier times would have been taboo, so its not surprising that it was only made (or rather discussed in the open) when the time was ripe for such a thing. But its telling that in earlier time Sinterklaas was already under fire for being "too pagan". After the [[Dutch Revolt]] (1906) many [[calvinist]] preachers tried to abolish the Saint Nicholas celebration for this reason. [[User:Mahjongg|Mahjongg]] ([[User talk:Mahjongg|talk]]) 21:17, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
::::This has occurred to me as well, but it would require good sources, not the usual early 20th century crap. [[User:Hans Adler|Hans]] [[User talk:Hans Adler|Adler]] 22:40, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
:::Mahjongg is correct here; there's no jump to make. Although our currently-poor Odin article does not properly reflect it, belief in Odin (and other Germanic gods) continued right into industrialization in Germanic Europe, as folklore attests, and those Old Norse names give some rather hard evidence that it was nothing new; the "long-bearded Yule-figure" out for a Yule-tide Wild Hunt appears to be strikingly reflected in our distilled Sinterklaas. Further, I may need to point out that [[Yule]] is itself a blatantly pagan Germanic survival, itself similarly attested in Old Norse Yule-tide traditions in Germanic Europe, and what is now "Christmas"/Yule remains full of heathen survivals. That said, these matters don't get much attention nowadays in modern academia, but that's the case with Germanic philology in general, unfortunately. [[User:Bloodofox|:bloodofox:]] ([[User talk:Bloodofox|talk]]) 22:32, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
::::"belief in Odin (and other Germanic gods) continued right into industrialization in Germanic Europe" – That's a [[WP:REDFLAG|surprising claim]] and would require good sources. [[User:Hans Adler|Hans]] [[User talk:Hans Adler|Adler]] 22:40, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
:::::Not particularly well known, sure, but Odin appears fairly frequently in Scandinavian folklore, for example, and Grimm cites examples of folk belief involving Odin in 19th century Germany. And he's not alone; there are, for example, recorded examples of persisting belief in (if not continued outright veneration of) [[Njörðr#Modern_folk_practice|Njörðr in Norway in the 18th century]] and belief in [[Thor#Modern_folklore|not only Thor]] but [[Freyja#Post-Christianization_and_Scandinavian_folklore|also Freyja]] as figures in folklore from other Scandinavian sources. The Wild Hunt is also widely attested. [[User:Bloodofox|:bloodofox:]] ([[User talk:Bloodofox|talk]]) 23:38, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
With regard to the chronology, this argument seems to have it both ways: talking about nineteenth-century folklore, but also citing Old Norse. Cherrypicking "evidence" over a millenium is not sound historical research. My initial comment still stands: there are plenty of men with beards. The statement that "the 'long-bearded Yule-figure' out for a Yule-tide Wild Hunt appears to be strikingly reflected in our distilled Sinterklaas" is highly imaginative speculation. There are so many differences between the two pieces of folklore. And there is no missing link, no half-Odin, half-Santa figure.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 07:28, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
: Okay, lets really look at what we are talking about here, so that we can form a clear idea just what can be said for or against the arguments expressed here, I think it's safe to say that we are actually talking about the [[evolution]] of a [[meme]] here. Its clear that each step in the evolution was introduced by an outside event. The last of such "steps" was the transformation from "Sinterklaas" into "Santa Claus", and we can see that the "main event" that triggered it was the relocation from the old world to the new world, and from a German/Dutch background to an English language background. You can see that in the new culture Sinterklaas is transformed into Santa. It happened a relatively short time ago, and much of it was documented. I assume you have no trouble accepting this "evolutionary step". Secondly the "evolutionary step" that created "Sinterklaas" is also relatively well documented, although because it didn't happen in the new world it's documentation can more easily been found in the Netherlands, and other European countries. The "step" I mean is the step leading from the [[Calendar of saints|calendar of saint]] [[name-day]] festivities for the Christian saint of [[Saint Nicholas]] to the much more popular folk festivities of Sinterklaas. I assume that this step is also relatively indisputable. I assume that the disputed step is therefore the step that lead from pre-christian beliefs to the "Christian replacement belief" of a saint that covered the same sets of beliefs as its pre-christian precursor. It must be said that there obviously is (as the printing press wasn't invented yet) little written evidence for this step, although there is some, mainly from written latin sources. What we do know with a certain level of certainty is that the Christian church has had a well known reputation for taking Pagan customs, and integrating/changing them into Christian symbols. I agree that probably more research and references are called for describing the various aspects of the transformation of this meme at that and earlier stages. [[User:Mahjongg|Mahjongg]] ([[User talk:Mahjongg|talk]]) 16:37, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
I don't think it's safe to assume anything. The article has a lot of speculation, and a lot of information that may not be relevant. If we are unable to find any evidence of the history of Santa, it would be better to say that it's lost in the mists of time, rather than say that the festival of a minor saint from Asia Minor became linked with a presumed cult of the ancient god Odin a thousand years ago, and emerged as a major motif (or meme if you prefer) in American popular culture in the nineteenth and twentieth century. We need evidence. And the beard is pretty thin.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 09:56, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
:Reducing the parallels between Odin and Santa Claus to a beard is not exactly honest; here we have a figure who is known to fly through the sky during winter ([[Wild Hunt]]), directly connected with Yule (over which "Christmas" was pasted) and riding a flying (!) [[Sleipnir|eight-legged horse]] while sporting a famously long beard. The general idea of Yule and modern Christmas also seems to be the same; a time to receive gifts during a barren season (in the case of Yule, apparently pork and alcohol). Perhaps I should again highlight that there is written evidence of veneration and/or acknowledgement of Germanic deities into the 19th century (examples above), so continuum is hardly out of the question.
:That said, I recently read an article by [[Hilda Ellis Davidson]] partially addressing this, in which she concludes that further research needs to be made in the area (''Scandinavian Folklore in Britain'', 1970), and indeed these subjects are oddly almost never touched by scholars in Germanic philology. Unfortunately Davidson does not pick up on the Old Norse ''Jólnir'' reference, and if she had she may have had more to say on the subject. [[User:Bloodofox|:bloodofox:]] ([[User talk:Bloodofox|talk]]) 11:20, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Well, yes, I am using shorthand by referring to the beard, but the argument about the beard is the same as the argument against the other parallels. Supernatural flight is pretty common in folklore, and a horse is not a reindeer. A hunt is not the same as gift delivery.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 10:06, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
:I think it's easy to argue away parallels by themselves, but when they all come together with a direct association with Yule and the North, the likelihood of the various parallels between Santa Claus and Odin being just a matter of chance becomes mathematically dubious indeed. From the factors I've so far seen, [[Occam's razor]] would dictate a simple holdover influence stemming from paganism. Anyway, as I said, I'd like to see more scholarship in the area. [[User:Bloodofox|:bloodofox:]] ([[User talk:Bloodofox|talk]]) 11:03, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
::The association of Santa with flying (sleigh etc.) does not have a long pedigree. It was invented in the 19th century by American writers. They may have been influenced by the popularity of Nordic myths, or may have simply had good imaginations. AFAIK there is no tradition in Germany or Holland that Sinter Klaas flies anywhere.[[User:Dmottram|Dmottram]] ([[User talk:Dmottram|talk]]) 20:13, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
The issue of the survival of Nordic mythology seems to have been neglected in scholarship. Ostensibly paganism was suppressed one and a half thousand years ago, but we still seem to hear distorted echoes today. What's going on? I'm not sure. But this doesn't establish that Santa is Odin. No one on Wednesday prays to Odin, do they?
In terms of maths and myths, I think in we have a lot of white-bearded men (Odin, Santa, Old Father Time, various wizards), a lot of supernatural aircraft (horses, sleighs, carpets, ships, broomsticks), and a lot of ceremonial gift-giving. None of this establishes a historical connection between anything and anything else. Let's deal with evidence!--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 15:56, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
As well as being derived from saint nicholas, Santa appears to also be based on father Christmas - he is a very similar character but with very different origins, very pagan. There appear to be references on the Father Christmas page - maybe the two different original characters are the source of the confusion? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/83.166.171.72|83.166.171.72]] ([[User talk:83.166.171.72|talk]]) 10:13, 15 December 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== The Tooth fairy needs your help. ==
<!-- [[User:DoNotArchiveUntil]] 11:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC) -->
If any of Santas helpers have time, would they please consider assisting [[The tooth fairy]]. Her article is not all it could be. <span style="text-shadow:#c5C3e3 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em; class=texhtml">[[User:Penyulap|<span style="color:#002100">'''Penyulap'''</span>]]</span><sub>[[User talk:Penyulap|<span style="color:07AA07">''' talk'''</span>]]</sub> 11:31, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
== Edit request on 6 December 2011 ==
{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}}
<!-- Begin request -->
===Christmas Eve rituals===
In the [[United States]] and [[Canada]], children traditionally leave Santa a glass of [[milk]] and a plate of [[cookie]]s; in [[United Kingdom|Britain]] and [[Australia]], he is sometimes given [[sherry]] and [[mince pies]] instead. In [[Sweden]]
'''and [[Norway]]'''
, children leave rice porridge. In [[Ireland]] it is popular to give him [[Guinness]] or milk, along with [[Christmas pudding]] or mince pies.
I added "and Norway" to the Christmas ritual of putting out rice porridge, as that is a very common tradition in Norway too. It is often combined with "christmas parties" (where the guests (children) shouts for Santa - who after some yelling, show up and gives out candy as a pre-christmas gift), but is very common for individuals too. We put out a small serving of porridge the night before Christmas. Here's a source written in Norwegian; http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/hedmark_og_oppland/1.6920984.
<!-- End request -->
[[Special:Contributions/94.173.15.178|94.173.15.178]] ([[User talk:94.173.15.178|talk]]) 14:13, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
:{{Done}}. Hei! I've added it like you wrote it. Velkommen til Wikipedia! [[User:Jonkerz|jonkerz]][[User talk:Jonkerz|♠]] 01:18, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
== Edit request on 14 December 2011 ==
{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}}
<!-- Begin request -->
In reading about celebrations around the world held during this time of year, I came across references to Befana, with many of the traditions and beliefs about her very similar to Santa Claus. I found there is also a Wikipedia article on Befana, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Befana
Please consider adding a link to her on the Santa Claus page under "8.2 Related figures in folklore", here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus#Related_figures_in_folklore
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Wrenae
[[User:Wrenae|Wrenae]] ([[User talk:Wrenae|talk]]) 04:07, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
<!-- End request -->
[[User:Wrenae|Wrenae]] ([[User talk:Wrenae|talk]]) 04:07, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
:{{ESp|d}} --[[User:Jnorton7558|Jnorton7558]] ([[User talk:Jnorton7558|talk]]) 16:15, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
==More sources==
*"[http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2011/12/15/how-coca-cola-helped-shape-the-modern-day-santa/?hpt=hp_bn8 How Coca-Cola helped shape the modern-day Santa]." ''[[CNN]]''. December 15, 2011.
[[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] ([[User talk:WhisperToMe|talk]]) 03:10, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
==north pole==
It shouldnt say he just lives at the north pole with no qualifiers, i have most commonly heard lappland as being the place he lives <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/202.174.58.161|202.174.58.161]] ([[User talk:202.174.58.161|talk]]) 03:42, 16 December 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
* In the USA it's "North Pole" - What country are you from?
* [[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] ([[User talk:WhisperToMe|talk]]) 05:46, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
:The North Pole, maybe.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 18:59, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
I always heard that it was magnetic north but over hundreds of years that has changed to a random point in the middle of the ocean.[[Special:Contributions/90.200.103.155|90.200.103.155]] ([[User talk:90.200.103.155|talk]]) 02:32, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
:Well, it's certainly not true north.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 09:22, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
== I don't understand... ==
I've read this entire article... Is he real or not? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/96.244.236.216|96.244.236.216]] ([[User talk:96.244.236.216|talk]]) 06:47, 16 December 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Wikipedia does not take sides in controversies.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 18:58, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
:There is no "controversy". Santa Claus is not a real person. It is a lie told to children. --[[User:Node ue|ಠ_ಠ node.ue ಠ_ಠ]] ([[User talk:Node ue|talk]]) 23:07, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
::It's unfair to label it a lie. Santa Claus isn't meant to be a person really. He represents human kindness, compassion and generosity, particularly at Christmas time. As long as those traits exist, so does he. And no, before you attack me for saying this, I'm not suggesting we incorporate this into the article, I'm just pointing out what Santa Claus represents in today's society. [[User:Bonzostar|Bonzostar]] ([[User talk:Bonzostar|talk]]) 13:41, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Bonzostar I will reiterate: Santa Claus is not a real person. It is a lie told to children, like the tooth fairy or the easter bunny. --[[User:Node ue|ಠ_ಠ node.ue ಠ_ಠ]] ([[User talk:Node ue|talk]]) 22:31, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
== The Real Santa Claus ==
The history of Saint Nicolas should be included with the history of Saint Nicolas because they are the one and same. In time, they blend into one another. The way that I kept my faith with my children was to show them that Santa Claus was real in an encyclopedia. The Americana Encyclopedia discussed how Saint Nicolas became Santa Claus. Today, Google will give parents the same information. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/76.248.170.200|76.248.170.200]] ([[User talk:76.248.170.200|talk]]) 19:02, 16 December 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== The Real Santa Claus ==
The history of '''Santa Claus''' should be included with the history of '''Saint Nicolas''' because they are the one and same. In time, they blend into one another. The way that I kept my faith with my children was to show them that Santa Claus was real in an encyclopedia. The Americana Encyclopedia discussed how Saint Nicolas became Santa Claus. Today, Google will give parents the same information. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/76.248.170.200|76.248.170.200]] ([[User talk:76.248.170.200|talk]]) 19:06, 16 December 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Close but not completely true, as Santa is not a continuation but a branch-off from the main. The main (historical) line of the legend of the man riding a flying animal, who has black helper(s) who listen at chimneys and tell the man who has been bad, so the man can either reward or punish people, ends with its manifestation in Sinterklaas and Zwarte piet, not in Santa Claus. Also during the branching off many original aspects were left out when Sinterklaas morphed into Santa, the main one is that its helpers which traditionally were black are no longer so. [[User:Mahjongg|Mahjongg]] ([[User talk:Mahjongg|talk]]) 14:46, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
==Fixing Format Under History==
I tried fixing the quote box under history, 19th century, and I can't get it not to overlap the text. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:AlexanderMelton|AlexanderMelton]] ([[User talk:AlexanderMelton|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/AlexanderMelton|contribs]]) 21:03, 17 December 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Chimney Tradition - edit request ==
Traditional chimneys in European places where high snowfall is common during the winter months used to be much larger than current chimney design, the whole house being centred around a large smoking-room/fire room, which was used for heating the whole household. Examples of these chimneys are still in use in various parts of France [[File:http://www.franche-comte.org/medias/gastronomie/salaisons/ferme-comtoise.jpg]] and [[File:http://www.maisons-comtoises.com/img/datas/cerneux-ete.jpg]] These chimneys have a closeable two-sided "roof" and a ladder inside, facilitating access when the building was covered to the lower roof by snow. It is conceivable that there was a custom amongst northern countries, of traders travelling from house to house during the winter months, using reindeer-led sleds, and just like Inuit cultures, dressed in fur-lined clothes. [citation needed]. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/81.106.48.53|81.106.48.53]] ([[User talk:81.106.48.53|talk]]) 17:20, 20 December 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== How dare u ==
How dare you say that santa is Legendary and not real. Please be reasonable .. some children's parents want them to grow up believing this .. my child just found out santa is not real .. and it is christmas eve .. im a digusted !! <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wiki trus|Wiki trus]] ([[User talk:Wiki trus|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Wiki trus|contribs]]) 09:42, 24 December 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:The articles are supposed to give a neutral encyclopedic coverage of a topic. They are not dumbed down for kids. Wikipedia [[WP:NOTCENSORED|does not remove material just because someone finds it objectionable]].
:I don't know of any wikipedia-like project that is edited for kids, I'm sorry. --[[User:Enric Naval|Enric Naval]] ([[User talk:Enric Naval|talk]]) 09:54, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
== That source ==
[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Santa_Claus&curid=8720252&diff=467459771&oldid=467414627 This edit] has these sources:
* Charles J. Jones, parent, ''pers. comm.'', 23 December 1967
:*This looks like it was extracted from a reliable source, but which one?
* ”[http://www.quotesstar.com/quotes/t/there-are-three-stages-of-74994.html Three Stages of a Man’s Life in Regards to Santa Claus Belief]”
:* anonymous quote from a quote website
* ”[http://www.flowcastingbook.com/blog/2008/12/supply_chain_insights_from_the.html Insights from the North Pole]”, Jeff Harrop, December 3, 2008.
:* the same anonymous quote, from a retail chain website
I think that we should strive for high-quality scholar sources. Not sure what to make with these. --[[User:Enric Naval|Enric Naval]] ([[User talk:Enric Naval|talk]]) 11:19, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
:Well, the first one is the writer's father. It's a joke!--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 18:58, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
== "and does exist" ==
Why is it advertised that Santa Claus "is real and does exist" in the very sentence. This is entirely unlike Wikipedia and it sounds to me like someone just wants kids to be entirely convinced that he truly does exist. I mean, personally, I believe he exists but not in the traditional way. Why would we say that he exists with nothing else in the entire article supporting that along with no references. I find this strange. <font color="#FF0000">[[User:Jpech95|Jpech]]</font><font color="#0000FF">[[User talk:Jpech95|9]]</font><font color="#228B22">[[User:Jpech95/guestbook|5]]</font> 21:03, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
'''Disreguard''' The phrase in question was removed from the encyclopedia. Let's hope it stays that way. <font color="#FF0000">[[User:Jpech95|Jpech]]</font><font color="#0000FF">[[User talk:Jpech95|9]]</font><font color="#228B22">[[User:Jpech95/guestbook|5]]</font> 21:10, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
== Current Event ==
The article is tagged with notes about this being a current event. Is this someone just having a laugh? I'm removing it for now. [[User:Wilybadger|Wilybadger]] ([[User talk:Wilybadger|talk]]) 21:11, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
== Two versions for the entry? ==
Regarding the issue of Christian Children's beliefs and spoilers in the entry:
I think it can be considered whether instead of choosing between "lying"/"censoring" and "ruining Christmas", Wikipedia can avoid both by asking the users to self-identify as children, or allowing them to choose a "family-friendly" version of the entry.
The "family-friendly" and the regular versions of the page will be called something along the lines of Santa_Claus (simplified) and Santa_Claus (unabridged), respectively. The latter entry will explicitly state that it is overruling the former.
It's not censorship when a movie critique warns the reader of a spoiler that's yet to come in the next paragraph. It's just a matter of consideration of people who don't want to know some things yet, and it's not hard to do. I'm sure Wikipedia can find a solution that will satisfy everyone's needs. Sometimes things don't have to be "either-or". <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/109.64.145.153|109.64.145.153]] ([[User talk:109.64.145.153|talk]]) 07:28, 26 January 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Out of scope for this project. Articles here have all the encyclopedic information for a topic, including the offensive information. See if you can convince someone to start "wikipedia for children" or an equivalent project. --[[User:Enric Naval|Enric Naval]] ([[User talk:Enric Naval|talk]]) 10:27, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
:You might want to give [[Wikipedia:Spoiler]] a read.<blockquote>It is not acceptable to delete information from an article because you think it spoils the plot. Such concerns must not interfere with neutral point of view, encyclopedic tone, completeness, or any other element of article quality ''[...]''</blockquote>[[WP:NPOV]] is not accommodating of readers who ''don't want to know some things''. Extra credit reading: [[Talk:Muhammad/FAQ]]. / [[User:Edgarde|edg]]<small> [[User_talk:Edgarde|☺]] [[Special:Contributions/Edgarde|☭]]</small> 11:52, 26 January 2012 (UTC)' |
New page wikitext, after the edit (new_wikitext ) | 'Santa is made up carter that your parents make up little bitches' |
Whether or not the change was made through a Tor exit node (tor_exit_node ) | 0 |
Unix timestamp of change (timestamp ) | 1328888447 |