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12:24, 9 July 2014: 86.129.13.205 (talk) triggered filter 285, performing the action "edit" on James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher. Actions taken: Disallow; Filter description: Common Vandalism (examine)

Changes made in edit

"'''James while John had a better effect on the teacher'''" is an English [[Sentence (linguistics)|sentence]] used to demonstrate [[Ambiguity|lexical ambiguity]] and the necessity of [[punctuation]],<ref name="Magonet">{{cite book
"'''James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher'''" is an English [[Sentence (linguistics)|sentence]] used to demonstrate [[Ambiguity|lexical ambiguity]] and the necessity of [[punctuation]],<ref name="Magonet">{{cite book
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| first = Jonathan
| first = Jonathan

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'Undid revision 614719247 by [[Special:Contributions/112.201.134.59|112.201.134.59]] ([[User talk:112.201.134.59|talk]])'
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'"'''James while John had a better effect on the teacher'''" is an English [[Sentence (linguistics)|sentence]] used to demonstrate [[Ambiguity|lexical ambiguity]] and the necessity of [[punctuation]],<ref name="Magonet">{{cite book | last = Magonet | first = Jonathan | title = A rabbi reads the Bible | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=Wl9qT9T7aRYC&pg=PA19&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22&lr=#PPA19,M1 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | edition = 2nd | year = 2004 | publisher = SCM-Canterbury Press | isbn = 978-0-334-02952-6 | page = 19 | quote = You may remember an old classroom test in English language. What punctuation marks do you have to add to this sentence so as to make sense of it?}}</ref> which serves as a substitute for the [[intonation (linguistics)|intonation]],<ref name="Dundes">{{cite book | last1 = Dundes | first1 = Alan | last2 = Pagter | first2 = Carl R. | title = When you're up to your ass in alligators: more urban folklore from the paperwork empire | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=McgoMZSznBgC&pg=PA135&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | edition = Illustrated | year = 1987 | publisher = Wayne State University Press | isbn = 0-8143-1867-3 | page = 135 | quote = The object of this and similar tests is to make sense of a series of words by figuring out the correct intonation pattern.}}</ref> [[Stress (linguistics)|stress]], and pauses found in [[speech]].<ref name="Hudson">{{cite book | last = Hudson | first = Grover | title = Essential introductory linguistics | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=5RB07Jb4tREC&pg=PA372&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | year = 1999 | publisher = [[Wiley-Blackwell]] | isbn = 0-631-20304-4 | page = 372 | quote = Writing is secondary to speech, in history and in the fact that speech and not writing is fundamental to the human species.}}</ref> In human information processing research, the sentence has been used to show how readers depend on punctuation to give sentences meaning, especially in the context of scanning across lines of text.<ref name="Velde">{{cite book | last = van de Velde | first = Roger G. | title = Text and thinking: on some roles of thinking in text interpretation | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=sa2Ir6WQtcQC&pg=PA44&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22#PPA43,M1 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | edition = Illustrated | year = 1992 | publisher = [[Walter de Gruyter]] | isbn = 3-11-013250-8 | page = 43 | quote = In scanning across lines, readers also make use of the information parts carried along with the punctuation markes: a period, a dash, a colon, a semicolon or a comma may signal different degrees of integration/separation between the groupings.}}</ref> The sentence is sometimes presented as a puzzle, where the solver must add the punctuation. The example refers to two students, James and John, who are required by an English test to describe a man who, in the past, had suffered from a cold. John writes "The man had a cold" which the teacher marks as being incorrect, while James writes the correct "The man had had a cold." Since James' answer was right, it had had a better effect on the teacher. The sentence can be understood more clearly by adding punctuation and emphasis: '''{{quote|James, while John had had "''had''", had had "''had'' had"; "''had'' had" had had a better effect on the teacher.<ref>[http://www.amrita.edu/icpc/2006/Problems-Onsite.pdf "Problem C: Operator Jumble"]. 31st ACM International Collegiate Programming Conference, 2006–2007.</ref>}}''' In each of the five "had had" word pairs in the above sentence, the first of the pair is in the [[past perfect]] form. The italicized instances denote emphasis of [[intonation (linguistics)|intonation]], focusing on the differences in the students' answers, then finally identifying the correct one. ==Usage== The sentence can be given as a grammatical puzzle<ref name="GADFLY">{{cite news | last = Amon | first = Mike | title = GADFLY | url = http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-20149031_ITM | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | date = 2004-01-28 | publisher = Financial Times | quote = HAD up to here? So were readers of last week's column, invited to punctuate "Smith where Jones had had had had had had had had had had had the examiners approval."}}</ref><ref name="Jackson">{{cite book | last = Jackson | first = Howard | title = Grammar and Vocabulary: A Resource Book for Students | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=wPq6bSd-CwEC&pg=PA123&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | year = 2002 | publisher = [[Routledge]] | isbn = 0-415-23170-1 | page = 123 | quote = Finally, verbal humour is often an ingredient of puzzles. As part of an advertising campaign for its educational website <nowiki><learn.co.uk></nowiki>, the ''Guardian'' (for 3 january 2001) included the following familiar grammatical puzzle.}}</ref><ref name="acmicpc">[http://acmicpc-live-archive.uva.es/nuevoportal/data/problem.php?p=3802 3802 - Operator Jumble]</ref> or an item on a test,<ref name="Magonet"/><ref name="Dundes"/> for which one must find the proper [[punctuation]] to give it meaning. [[Hans Reichenbach]] used a similar sentence in 1947 as an exercise to the reader ("John where Jack..."), to illustrate the different levels of language, namely [[object language]] and [[metalanguage]].<ref name="Reichenbach">Reichenbach, Hans (1947) Elements of symbolic logic. London: Collier-MacMillan. Exercise 3-4, p.405; solution p.417.</ref> In research showing how people make sense of information in their environment, this sentence was used to demonstrate how seemingly arbitrary decisions can drastically change meaning, analogous to how changes in the punctuation and quotes in the sentence show that the teacher alternately prefers James' work and John's work (e.g., compare: 'James, while John had had "had," had...' vs. 'James, while John had had "had had,"...').<ref name="Weick">{{cite book | last = Weick | first = Karl E. | title = Making Sense of the Organization | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=agZzW4mqS4wC&pg=PA186&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22#PPA186,M1 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | edition = 8th | year = 2005 | publisher = [[Wiley-Blackwell]] | isbn = 0-631-22319-3 | pages = 186–187 | quote = Once a person has generated/bracketed part of the stream, then the activities of punctuation and connection (parsing) can occur in an effort to transform the raw data into information.}}</ref> The sentence is also used to show the [[Semantics|semantic]] vagueness of the word "had", as well as to demonstrate the [[Use–mention distinction|difference between using a word and mentioning a word]].<ref name="Lecercle">{{cite book | last = Lecercle | first = Jean-Jacques | title = The violence of language | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=sNUNAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA86&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22#PPA86,M1 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | edition = Illustrated | year = 1990 | publisher = [[Routledge]] | isbn = 0-415-03431-0 | page = 86 | quote = Suppose I decide that I wish to make up a sentence containing eleven occurrences of the word 'had' in a row ...}}</ref> It has also been used as an example of the complexities of language, its interpretation, and their effects on a person's [[perception]]s.<ref name="Hollin">{{cite book | last = Hollin | first = Clive R. | title = Contemporary Psychology: An Introduction | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=DTpm_oT51aQC&pg=PA34&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | edition = Illustrated | year = 1995 | publisher = [[Routledge]] | isbn = 0-7484-0191-1 | page = 34 | quote = Do readers make use of the ways in which sentences are structured?}}</ref> In the novel "[[Flowers for Algernon]]" written by [[Daniel Keyes]], it was used as proof of intelligence. For the [[syntax|syntactic]] structure to be clear to a reader, this sentence requires, at a minimum, that the two phrases be separated by using a [[semicolon]], [[period (punctuation)|period]], [[en-dash]] or [[em-dash]]. Still, [[Jasper Fforde]]'s novel ''The Well of Lost Plots'' employs a variation of the phrase to illustrate the confusion that may arise even from well-punctuated writing:<ref name="Fforde"> {{Cite book | last = Fforde | first = Jasper | authorlink = Jasper Fforde | title = The Well of Lost Plots | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=7FBhAt0-kGAC | accessdate = 2012-04-30 | year = 2003 | publisher = [[Hodder & Stoughton]] | quote = }}</ref> {{quote|"Okay" said the Bellman, whose head was in danger of falling apart like a chocolate orange, "let me get this straight: ''David Copperfield'', unlike ''Pilgrim’s Progress'', which had had 'had', had had 'had had'. 'Had had' had had TGC’s approval?"}} ==See also== *[[Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo]] *[[Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den]] *[[List of linguistic example sentences]] *[[That that is is that that is not is not is that it it is]] ==References== {{reflist|colwidth=30em}} ==External links== * {{youtube|7M4iCN3aGyY|An explanation of the concept}} {{Use dmy dates|date=July 2012}} [[Category:English phrases]] [[Category:Psycholinguistics]] [[Category:Word games]] [[Category:Homonymy]] [[Category:Ambiguity]] [[Category:Word play]]'
New page wikitext, after the edit (new_wikitext)
'"'''James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher'''" is an English [[Sentence (linguistics)|sentence]] used to demonstrate [[Ambiguity|lexical ambiguity]] and the necessity of [[punctuation]],<ref name="Magonet">{{cite book | last = Magonet | first = Jonathan | title = A rabbi reads the Bible | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=Wl9qT9T7aRYC&pg=PA19&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22&lr=#PPA19,M1 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | edition = 2nd | year = 2004 | publisher = SCM-Canterbury Press | isbn = 978-0-334-02952-6 | page = 19 | quote = You may remember an old classroom test in English language. What punctuation marks do you have to add to this sentence so as to make sense of it?}}</ref> which serves as a substitute for the [[intonation (linguistics)|intonation]],<ref name="Dundes">{{cite book | last1 = Dundes | first1 = Alan | last2 = Pagter | first2 = Carl R. | title = When you're up to your ass in alligators: more urban folklore from the paperwork empire | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=McgoMZSznBgC&pg=PA135&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | edition = Illustrated | year = 1987 | publisher = Wayne State University Press | isbn = 0-8143-1867-3 | page = 135 | quote = The object of this and similar tests is to make sense of a series of words by figuring out the correct intonation pattern.}}</ref> [[Stress (linguistics)|stress]], and pauses found in [[speech]].<ref name="Hudson">{{cite book | last = Hudson | first = Grover | title = Essential introductory linguistics | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=5RB07Jb4tREC&pg=PA372&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | year = 1999 | publisher = [[Wiley-Blackwell]] | isbn = 0-631-20304-4 | page = 372 | quote = Writing is secondary to speech, in history and in the fact that speech and not writing is fundamental to the human species.}}</ref> In human information processing research, the sentence has been used to show how readers depend on punctuation to give sentences meaning, especially in the context of scanning across lines of text.<ref name="Velde">{{cite book | last = van de Velde | first = Roger G. | title = Text and thinking: on some roles of thinking in text interpretation | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=sa2Ir6WQtcQC&pg=PA44&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22#PPA43,M1 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | edition = Illustrated | year = 1992 | publisher = [[Walter de Gruyter]] | isbn = 3-11-013250-8 | page = 43 | quote = In scanning across lines, readers also make use of the information parts carried along with the punctuation markes: a period, a dash, a colon, a semicolon or a comma may signal different degrees of integration/separation between the groupings.}}</ref> The sentence is sometimes presented as a puzzle, where the solver must add the punctuation. The example refers to two students, James and John, who are required by an English test to describe a man who, in the past, had suffered from a cold. John writes "The man had a cold" which the teacher marks as being incorrect, while James writes the correct "The man had had a cold." Since James' answer was right, it had had a better effect on the teacher. The sentence can be understood more clearly by adding punctuation and emphasis: '''{{quote|James, while John had had "''had''", had had "''had'' had"; "''had'' had" had had a better effect on the teacher.<ref>[http://www.amrita.edu/icpc/2006/Problems-Onsite.pdf "Problem C: Operator Jumble"]. 31st ACM International Collegiate Programming Conference, 2006–2007.</ref>}}''' In each of the five "had had" word pairs in the above sentence, the first of the pair is in the [[past perfect]] form. The italicized instances denote emphasis of [[intonation (linguistics)|intonation]], focusing on the differences in the students' answers, then finally identifying the correct one. ==Usage== The sentence can be given as a grammatical puzzle<ref name="GADFLY">{{cite news | last = Amon | first = Mike | title = GADFLY | url = http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-20149031_ITM | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | date = 2004-01-28 | publisher = Financial Times | quote = HAD up to here? So were readers of last week's column, invited to punctuate "Smith where Jones had had had had had had had had had had had the examiners approval."}}</ref><ref name="Jackson">{{cite book | last = Jackson | first = Howard | title = Grammar and Vocabulary: A Resource Book for Students | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=wPq6bSd-CwEC&pg=PA123&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | year = 2002 | publisher = [[Routledge]] | isbn = 0-415-23170-1 | page = 123 | quote = Finally, verbal humour is often an ingredient of puzzles. As part of an advertising campaign for its educational website <nowiki><learn.co.uk></nowiki>, the ''Guardian'' (for 3 january 2001) included the following familiar grammatical puzzle.}}</ref><ref name="acmicpc">[http://acmicpc-live-archive.uva.es/nuevoportal/data/problem.php?p=3802 3802 - Operator Jumble]</ref> or an item on a test,<ref name="Magonet"/><ref name="Dundes"/> for which one must find the proper [[punctuation]] to give it meaning. [[Hans Reichenbach]] used a similar sentence in 1947 as an exercise to the reader ("John where Jack..."), to illustrate the different levels of language, namely [[object language]] and [[metalanguage]].<ref name="Reichenbach">Reichenbach, Hans (1947) Elements of symbolic logic. London: Collier-MacMillan. Exercise 3-4, p.405; solution p.417.</ref> In research showing how people make sense of information in their environment, this sentence was used to demonstrate how seemingly arbitrary decisions can drastically change meaning, analogous to how changes in the punctuation and quotes in the sentence show that the teacher alternately prefers James' work and John's work (e.g., compare: 'James, while John had had "had," had...' vs. 'James, while John had had "had had,"...').<ref name="Weick">{{cite book | last = Weick | first = Karl E. | title = Making Sense of the Organization | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=agZzW4mqS4wC&pg=PA186&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22#PPA186,M1 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | edition = 8th | year = 2005 | publisher = [[Wiley-Blackwell]] | isbn = 0-631-22319-3 | pages = 186–187 | quote = Once a person has generated/bracketed part of the stream, then the activities of punctuation and connection (parsing) can occur in an effort to transform the raw data into information.}}</ref> The sentence is also used to show the [[Semantics|semantic]] vagueness of the word "had", as well as to demonstrate the [[Use–mention distinction|difference between using a word and mentioning a word]].<ref name="Lecercle">{{cite book | last = Lecercle | first = Jean-Jacques | title = The violence of language | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=sNUNAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA86&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22#PPA86,M1 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | edition = Illustrated | year = 1990 | publisher = [[Routledge]] | isbn = 0-415-03431-0 | page = 86 | quote = Suppose I decide that I wish to make up a sentence containing eleven occurrences of the word 'had' in a row ...}}</ref> It has also been used as an example of the complexities of language, its interpretation, and their effects on a person's [[perception]]s.<ref name="Hollin">{{cite book | last = Hollin | first = Clive R. | title = Contemporary Psychology: An Introduction | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=DTpm_oT51aQC&pg=PA34&dq=%22Had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had+had%22 | accessdate = 2009-04-30 | edition = Illustrated | year = 1995 | publisher = [[Routledge]] | isbn = 0-7484-0191-1 | page = 34 | quote = Do readers make use of the ways in which sentences are structured?}}</ref> In the novel "[[Flowers for Algernon]]" written by [[Daniel Keyes]], it was used as proof of intelligence. For the [[syntax|syntactic]] structure to be clear to a reader, this sentence requires, at a minimum, that the two phrases be separated by using a [[semicolon]], [[period (punctuation)|period]], [[en-dash]] or [[em-dash]]. Still, [[Jasper Fforde]]'s novel ''The Well of Lost Plots'' employs a variation of the phrase to illustrate the confusion that may arise even from well-punctuated writing:<ref name="Fforde"> {{Cite book | last = Fforde | first = Jasper | authorlink = Jasper Fforde | title = The Well of Lost Plots | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=7FBhAt0-kGAC | accessdate = 2012-04-30 | year = 2003 | publisher = [[Hodder & Stoughton]] | quote = }}</ref> {{quote|"Okay" said the Bellman, whose head was in danger of falling apart like a chocolate orange, "let me get this straight: ''David Copperfield'', unlike ''Pilgrim’s Progress'', which had had 'had', had had 'had had'. 'Had had' had had TGC’s approval?"}} ==See also== *[[Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo]] *[[Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den]] *[[List of linguistic example sentences]] *[[That that is is that that is not is not is that it it is]] ==References== {{reflist|colwidth=30em}} ==External links== * {{youtube|7M4iCN3aGyY|An explanation of the concept}} {{Use dmy dates|date=July 2012}} [[Category:English phrases]] [[Category:Psycholinguistics]] [[Category:Word games]] [[Category:Homonymy]] [[Category:Ambiguity]] [[Category:Word play]]'
Unified diff of changes made by edit (edit_diff)
'@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ -"'''James while John had a better effect on the teacher'''" is an English [[Sentence (linguistics)|sentence]] used to demonstrate [[Ambiguity|lexical ambiguity]] and the necessity of [[punctuation]],<ref name="Magonet">{{cite book +"'''James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher'''" is an English [[Sentence (linguistics)|sentence]] used to demonstrate [[Ambiguity|lexical ambiguity]] and the necessity of [[punctuation]],<ref name="Magonet">{{cite book | last = Magonet | first = Jonathan | title = A rabbi reads the Bible '
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[ 0 => '"'''James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher'''" is an English [[Sentence (linguistics)|sentence]] used to demonstrate [[Ambiguity|lexical ambiguity]] and the necessity of [[punctuation]],<ref name="Magonet">{{cite book' ]
Lines removed in edit (removed_lines)
[ 0 => '"'''James while John had a better effect on the teacher'''" is an English [[Sentence (linguistics)|sentence]] used to demonstrate [[Ambiguity|lexical ambiguity]] and the necessity of [[punctuation]],<ref name="Magonet">{{cite book' ]
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