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'{{OnThisDay|date1=2004-10-01|oldid1=6297937|date2=2005-10-01|oldid2=24515704|date3=2006-10-01|oldid3=78615955|date4=2007-11-19|oldid4=172590544|date5=2008-11-19|oldid5=252609952}} '''{{skiptotoctalk}} {{talkheader}} {{Articlehistory |action1=GAN |action1date=13 October 2006 |action1result=listed |action1oldid=81238352 |action1link=Talk:Pelé#GA passed |action2=PR |action2date=15:49, 28 January 2007 |action2link=Wikipedia:Peer review/Pelé/archive1 |action2result=reviewed |action2oldid=103852577 | action3 = GAR | action3date = 19:16, 28 May 2008 (UTC) | action3link = Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Pelé/1 | action3result = delisted | action3oldid = |topic=Everydaylife |currentstatus=DGA }} {{WPBS|1= {{WPBrazil|class=B|importance=top}} {{WPBiography|core=yes|priority=Top|class=B|living=yes|sports-work-group=yes|listas=Pele}} {{Football|class=B|importance=High|USA=yes}} {{V0.5|class=B|category=Everydaylife}} {{FootballIDRIVEpast}} {{football portal selected|biography}} {{todo|collapsed=yes}} }} {{archive box| *[[Talk:Pelé/Archive 1]]: start-August 2006, not including the debate regarding Pele's goal-scoring record *[[Talk:Pelé/Archive - Statistics]]: Everything related to the debate over how many goals Pelé scored, but that is no longer needed. }} ===Correct this sentence please=== "due to a injury suffered in the 2nd match he did not played the whole Cup not receiving a winner's medal" (Introduction, 4th paragraph.) This sentence is clearly incorrect and demonstrates a very poor use of english. In particular, "he did not played" and "a injury". I recommend changing the sentence to the following; "due to '''an''' injury suffered in the 2nd match, '''Pele did not play''' enough games during the Cup to qualify for a winner's medal." Thank you. :{{done}}. Please remember to post all new entries in Talk pages '''at the bottom''' and to always sign your posts with four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). -- [[User:Alexf|Alexf]]^{[[User talk:Alexf|42]]} 00:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC) ===The Table=== Note: in reworking the table from the version presented in the article, I've removed the Totals: these were for "major" domestic club compeitions, plus the Copa Libertadores. They can still be seen in the table in the article if they are needed. Second note: According the the official Santos website [http://www.santosfc.com.br/coluna.php?cod=8268], Pele scored 1 in 1116. I guess this is the number we are aiming for in the bottom right hand corner of the table. --[[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 12:49, 12 August 2006 (UTC) :OK. According to the big list, Pele got 1088 in 1115 for Santos. This means it is missing one game in which Pele scored 3 goals. Assuming, for the moment, that Santos have counted one to many matches, then this game could be: :*19 June 1957, Combined Santos/Vasco - Belenenses (Portugal) :*24 Jan 1960, Sao Paulo - Bahia :*Any one of four games August-October 1959, for military teams. However, I am assuming that Santos would either count all of these games, or none of them; so it has to be one of the first two games. :I don't have time right now to check what competitions the first two matches are from, and it might be the case that the big list (or Santos) have made other mistakes, but it's worth having this here just in case something doesn't add up on the table further along the line. --[[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 13:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC) ::Another thought on this matter: it could be that the missing game for Santos on the big list is Pele's testimonial, where he played one half for Cosmos and one half for Santos. The final score was 2-1 to Cosmos. Pele scored one goal. So it doesn't sort out the missing hat-trick. :::A few points: :::#I think that we should remove all the stars (*) :::#I think we should go with the big list as it is more verifiable than either the Santos number or 1,281. :::#I would like to see this version of the table completed and added to the article a.s.a.p. :::[[User:Alii h|aLii]] 21:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC) <!-- NOTE: when updating stats, update the infobox too! --> {| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;font-size:80%" |- !rowspan="3"|Club !rowspan="3"|Season !colspan="8"|Domestic League Competitions !colspan="2" rowspan="2"|Domestic League<br/>Sub-total !rowspan="23"| !colspan="2"|Domestic Cup !colspan="4"|International Club Competitions !colspan="2" rowspan="2"|Other Club<br/> Matches<ref>Reference goes here, explaining what these matches were</ref> !rowspan="23"| !rowspan="2" colspan="2"|GRAND<br/>TOTAL |- !colspan="2"|[[Campeonato Paulista|SPS]]<ref name=SPSRSPS>All statistics relating to Pele's goalscoring record between 1957 and 1974 in the SPS, RSPS, and Campeonato Brasileiro are taken from http://soccer-europe.com/Biographies/Pele.html. Soccer Europe compiled this list from http://www.rsssf.com (The Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation). For a full list of Pele's goals see http://pele.m-qp-m.us/english/pele_statistics.shtml.</ref> !colspan="2"|[[Torneio Rio-São Paulo|RSPS]]<ref name=SPSRSPS/> !colspan="2"|[[Taça de Prata|T. de Prata]] !colspan="2"|[[Campeonato Brasileiro|Camp. Brasil.]]<ref name=SPSRSPS/> !colspan="2"|[[Taça Brasil|T. Brasil]] !colspan="2"|[[Copa Libertadores]] !colspan="2"|[[Intercontinental Cup]] |- !Apps!!Goals!!Apps!!Goals!!Apps!!Goals!!Apps!!Goals!!Apps!!Goals!!Apps!!Goals!!Apps!!Goals!!Apps!!Goals!!Apps!!Goals!!Apps!!Goals |- |rowspan="20" valign="top"|'''[[Santos Futebol Clube|Santos]]''' |1956 |0*||0*||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||0*||0*||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||2*||2*<ref>Pele's first two matches for Santos are assumed here to be friendlies. No record of them exists in any of the tournaments listed at [http://www.rsssf.com rsssf.com].</ref>||2*||2* |- |1957 |14+15*||19+17*<ref>In 1957 the Sao Paulo championship was split into two halves, Série Azul and Série Branca. In the first half Pelé scored 19 goals in 14 games, and then in Série Azul he scored 17 goals in 15 games See http://paginas.terra.com.br/esporte/rsssfbrasil/tables/sp1957.htm</ref>||9||5||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||38*||41*||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||29*||16*||67*||57* |- |1958 |38||58||8||8||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||46||66||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||14*||14*||60*||80* |- |1959 |32||45||7||6||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||39||51||4*||2*||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||40*||47*||83*||100* |- |1960 |30||33||3||0||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||33||33||0||0||0||0||0||0||34*||26*||67*||59* |- |1961 |26||47||7||8||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||33||55||5*||7||0||0||0||0||36*||48*||74*||110* |- |1962 |26||37||0||0||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||26||37||5*||2*||4*||4*||2||6||13*||14*||50*||63* |- |1963 |19||22||8||14||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||27||36||4*||8||4*||5*||1||2||16||16*||52*||67* |- |1964 |21||34||4||3||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||25||37||6*||7||0*||0*||0||0||16*||13*||47*||57* |- |1965 |30||49||7||5||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||37||54||4*||2*||7*||8||0||0||18*||33*||66*||97* |- |1966 |14||13||0*||0*||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||14*||13*||5*||2*||0||0||0||0||19*||16*||38*||31* |- |1967 |18||17||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||14*||9*||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||32*||26*||0||0||0||0||0||0||???||???||65*||56* |- |1968 |21||17||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||17*||11*||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||38*||28*||0||0||0||0||0||0||???||???||73*||55* |- |1969 |25||26||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||12*||12*||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||37*||38*||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||0||0||0||0||???||???||61*||57* |- |1970 |15||7||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||13*||4*||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||28*||11*||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||0||0||0||0||???||???||54*||47* |- |1971 |19||8||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||21||1||40||9||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||0||0||0||0||???||???||72*||29* |- |1972 |20||9||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||16||5||36||14||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||0||0||0||0||???||???||74*||50* |- |1973 |19||11||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||30||19||49||30||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||0||0||0||0||???||???||66*||52* |- |1974 |10||1||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||17||9||27||10||style="background:silver"| ||style="background:silver"| ||0||0||0||0||???||???||49*||19* |- !All !412!!470!!53!!49!!56*!!36*!!84!!34!!605*!!589*!!33!!30!!15!!17<ref name=Cups>Totalised statistics relating to Pele's record between 1957 and 1974 in the Taça de Prata, Taça Brasil and Copa Libertadores are taken from http://soccer-europe.com/Biographies/Pele.html. Soccer Europe compiled this list from http://www.rsssf.com (The Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation), but do not give a season-by-season breakdown. For a full list of Pele's goals see http://rivelino.caltech.edu/~pelesl/pele/english/pele_statistics.html.</ref>!!3!!8!!???!!???!!1120!!1088 |} {| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;" |- !rowspan="2"|Club !rowspan="2"|Season !colspan="2"|[[NASL]] !colspan="2"|Other<ref>Reference indicated what "Other" means in this context</ref> !colspan="2"|Total |- !Apps!!Goals!!Apps!!Goals!!Apps!!Goals |- |rowspan="4" valign="top"|'''[[New York Cosmos|NY Cosmos]]''' |1975 |9||5||14*||10*||23*||15* |- |1976 |24||15||18*||11*||42*||26* |- |1977 |31||17||11*||6*||42*||23* |- !All !64!!37!!43*!!27*!!107*!!64* |} *''A dark grey cell means that the relevant competition did not run in the relevant year'' *''A "*" indicates this number was inferred from a Santos fixture list from [http://paginas.terra.com.br/esporte/rsssfbrasil/historical.htm rsssf.com] and [http://rivelino.caltech.edu/~pelesl/pele/english/pele_statistics.html this list] of games Pelé played.'' ====Comments and calculations==== <div style="font-size:80%"> :*Santos only played in the Copa Libertadores in 1962, 1963, 1964 and 1965 of the years Pele was there [http://www.rsssf.com/sacups/copalib.html]. (The same page believes that Pele's 17 goals in the competition came in 14 games) :*1964 Santos only scored 3 goals in the CL, and in 1965 Pele top scored with 8 in the competition [http://www.rsssf.com/sacups/copa64.html] [http://www.rsssf.com/sacups/copalibtops.html]. :*Some Taca Brazil stats [http://paginas.terra.com.br/esporte/rsssfbrasil/tables/tbrtops.htm rsssf.com]. Pele got 7 goals in 1961, 8 in 1963, and 7 in 1964. Also Santos didn't take part in 1960 [http://paginas.terra.com.br/esporte/rsssfbrasil/tables/cbr1960.htm], 1967 [http://paginas.terra.com.br/esporte/rsssfbrasil/tables/cbr1967.htm] or 1968 [http://paginas.terra.com.br/esporte/rsssfbrasil/tables/cbr1968.htm]. :*There is a chance that your [Campeonato Paulista|SPS] stats may be incorrect, see [http://paginas.terra.com.br/esporte/rsssfbrasil/tables/sptops.htm]. Of course the rsssf page could well be wrong. :**That link disagrees with the stat above for 1957. It gives Pele 17 goals rather than the 36 we give him. It confirms the stats above for 58-65 inclusive, as well as 69 and 73. It doesn't seem to implicitly disagree (i.e., by giving the top scorer record to a player who scored fewer goals than the table above says Pele scored) at all. I will look into this: although it may mean going right back to the list of goals on my [[User:James Kemp|User Page]].[[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 18:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC) :***Infact almost every website that I've visited lists him as 1957 top scorer with 17 goals, e.g. [http://2002.fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/02/en/pf/h/cp/bra/pele.html]. However, the same pages generally seem to think he scored 97 goals for Brazil rather than the obviously correct 77. Weird. Also note that the big list of games and goals lists 751 "National" games for Santos and 717 goals. The above table only lists 633 games (CL is international). What I mean to point out by this is that you can't count those games and assume that they correspond to well established tournament appearances. It seems that Santos played all kinds of random little friendly tournaments. [[User:Alii h|aLii]] 22:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC) :***Both numbers are correct in a way. In 1957 the SP championship was split into two halves [http://paginas.terra.com.br/esporte/rsssfbrasil/tables/sp1957.htm], Série Azul and Série Branca. In the first half Pele scored 19 in 14, and then in Série Azul he got 17 in 15. [[User:Alii h|aLii]] 12:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC) :*rsssf.com doesn't have any details for the Torneio Rio-São Paulo in 1956. I guess it wasn't run for some reason. Santos didn't take part in 1962 [http://paginas.terra.com.br/esporte/rsssfbrasil/tables/rjsp1962.htm] :**This guy [http://www.bolanaarea.com/gal_regionais_rio-saopaulo.htm] claims that "Não houve torneio de 1934 a 1939, de 1941 a 1949, em 1956, de 1967 a 1992 e de 1994 a 1996". I can't read Portuguese, but from cross-referencing the dates it seems that he is saying that the RSPS wasn't run in 1956. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 18:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC) :[[User:Alii h|aLii]] 18:25, 7 August 2006 (UTC) *OK, I've checked out 1956, and according to the "master list" at [[User:James Kemp/Pelé/0001 to 0142 56 to 58]], Pele played two games. Also, based on our other research, Santos were only playing in the SPS. Neither of these games occured in the SPS according to rsssf.com. Furthermore, soccer-europe claims Pele did not play for or score for Santos in 1956. So I've set his appearances and goals for that year to a tentative zero. Looks like we'll have to update the dates he was at Santos on the main page, too. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 18:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC) *Oh, and as a little aside it likes like the oft-cited claim that Pele scored 4 goals on his debut might be bollocks as well!! [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 18:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC) *RSPS for 1966: According to rsssf.com, "(Due to the World Cup, the extra matches were not realized and all the four teams were considered champions.)" [http://paginas.terra.com.br/esporte/rsssfbrasil/tables/rjsp1966.htm]. Maybe this is why Pele's goals scored in the competition - if, indeed, he did score - are not counted at Soccer Europe? Or maybe he was not played because of the impending World Cup? Either way, it mine mean resorting to the master list, and I ain't put it up on my User Page for that year, yet. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 18:56, 7 August 2006 (UTC) **Santos did indeed take part, but Pele himself would seem to have played no part. Infact he played no games between 17 Feb and 29 Mar &mdash; all of Santos' games in the tournament were in this period. One would assume he was injured. [[User:Alii h|aLii]] 02:18, 15 August 2006 (UTC) *1962 Taca Brasil. The first thing to note is that it looks like the TB for 1962 actually ran through into 1963; this seems to be the case for at least one other year. For the sake of simplicity (and because they are probably right) I think we should adopt the RSSSF convention; i.e., the 62-63 TB is listed as 1962. According to rsssf [http://www.rsssf.com/tablesb/brazcup62.html] Santos did not play until the semis, possibly because they were the cup holders - this is not stated explicitly, but this is how the TdP works in other years. According to rsssf, Santos played five games in that years TB; according to the master list, Pele played in all of them, and scored 2 goals. The only oddity is that rsssf list the two games against Recife as being played in December 62, whereas the list lists them as being played in January 63; either way, the results are the same and Pele played but did not score. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 08:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC) *Similar work for the 59 TB gives 2 goals in 4 games. Again, a little tentative. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 08:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC) *TB 65, same process. Santos play four games according to rsssf; again I assume they qualify automatically for the semis as they won the cup the year before. Pele scores 2 in 4. All games take place in the calendar year 1965. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 10:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC) *TB 66, same process. Pele gest 2 in 5. We have a problem now as our breakdown is greater than the total given by soccer-europe. Maybe someone could go through the goal totals given by rsssf.com (where they have Pele as top scorer in a particular year) to see if they correlate with the master list and the rsssf.com results list? [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 10:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC) **Done for 61. Goals correct. 5 apps. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 10:38, 8 August 2006 (UTC) **Double checked 62 [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 10:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC) **Done for 63. 8 in 4. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 10:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC) **Done for 64. 7 in 6. I think Soccer Europe made a mistake, and that our stats are correct (since most of them have been checked directly with the results, and the balance are from rsssf which is pretty much the authority. I've amended the TB totals to read 30 in 33. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 10:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC) </div> ====References==== <div class="references-small"><references/></div> == Now that's settled... == Here's a provisional to-do list for the goalscoring stats: *Find out, from [http://www.rsssf.com rsssf], precisely what other tournaments Pele played in. The list can go here: **[[Taça dos Campeões Estaduais]] [http://paginas.terra.com.br/esporte/rsssfbrasil/tables/tce1956.htm] - 56, 0(0); 57 1(0) **1968 [[Campeonato Nacional]] [http://paginas.terra.com.br/esporte/rsssfbrasil/tables/tcamp1968.htm] **Tournament 3 **etc... *Work out, preferably with the help of the wider WP community, precisely which tournaments should be counted towards league goals. Almost certainly none of the little ones listed above should be. I like the current definitions; I am just thinking that maybe the Taca Brasil should be included since, although it isn't a league tournament, it was a qualifying competition for the Copa Lib and was therefore more prestigious that your average cup. *Add Intercontinental Cup Data *Rework the table - it's taking up the width of the screen at the moment, and if we need another column for "other competititve competitions" then it will just be too big. How about one table for all "league" goals (as per the infobox definition) and another table for everything else? {{unsigned2|09:50, 10 August 2006|James Kemp}} <hr> While you were writing, I was writing this: There are many problems when trying to give the "facts" about Pele's goal scoring record. #How many goals did he actually score? [http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/p/cp/bra/pele.html FIFA says 1281 in 1363 games]. However the big list says 1280 in 1363 games, or 1282 in 1366 games, dependant on whether you count the three friendly appearances he made after his retirement? :Hmmm. Good point. Santos are going with 1281 goals as well. Is there any way of working out what FIFA's source is? Could we write to them and ask? Santos seem to cite the same statistic [http://www.santosfc.com.br/texto.php?cod=8401]. I reckon we assume FIFA and Santos have got it right, and that there's some kind of error on the big list. This doesn't matter too much for the moment, as it will only put our total one goal out, and we can also carry FIFA's total. But it should be sorted out at some point. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 12:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC) #When did he score his 1000th goal? Most media sources have recently put it after 909 games, in a match against Vasco. The big list says that was his 1001th goal, with the 1000th coming in his 907th game. :Interesting: assuming that these media sources are using the FIFA statistics, one would assume that - if there was a discrepancy with the big list, as there is here - they would say that the 1000th goal was earlier than the big list, not later. The big list is taken from a book called Pelé: O Supercampeão by Orlando Duarte. According to WorldCat this is only available in some libraries in the US: depending on where you are based, do you think you could put in an interlibrary loan? I will try here (Edinburgh), too. Interestingly enough, there was a book published called "Pele: the autobiography" by the same guy (Duarte). Maybe that contains a list of statistics. The British Library have it, if you are near London; I will try and get the [[National Library of Scotland]] to sort out a copy.[[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 12:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC) :: ''1000 gol marcado em 19 de novembro de 1969, às 23h11, em sua 909º partida, Vasco 1 - Santos 2, com 65.157 pagantes.'' He scored his 1000th goal 19 Novembre, 1969, by 23:11 o'clock, in his 909th match. It was Vasco 1 x 2 Santos, with 65.157 people attending and broadcasted to the entire nation (Brazil). The goal was by Penalty. There's the possibility that 1 goal was skipped and that this was actually the 1001th goal. I'll have to research this fact though. Regards [[User:Loudenvier|Loudenvier]] 14:34, 10 August 2006 (UTC) :::Just to clarify the situation, the big list claims that this goal was Pele's 1001st. It agrees with the details of the match though, and that this was Pele's 909th match. Loudenvier: could you post the source from which you are taking the above Portuguese? And Ali, what other media sources claim this goal as the 1000th? When do these sources say Pele's first game was? It's just that if they are not counting the first game the big list gives, in which Pele scored 1 goal, then everything is just about sorted without too much hassles: although this is somewhat of a cut and shut method. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 15:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC) ::::I have an overhelming amount of sources because I'm brazilian. The difficult lies in filtering the sources. I have even the escalation of Vasco and Santos. The Goal was scored agains the goalkeeper from Argentina Andrada, which is something ironic due to the rivalry between Brazil and Argentina. The source for my statement before was the portuguese wikipedia (pt.wikipedia.org). I'll come with somethin interesting soon. [[User:Loudenvier|Loudenvier]] 17:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC) #What competitions were national league competitions? I think there is a good arguement for saying the four currently mentioned, but equally for saying just the Sao Paolo league. ::Personally I think this should be decided by the WP community. This may have already been done implicitly: if you check out the infobox for [[Rivelino]], who played in Brazil between 65 and 78, he is given 500 odd appearances and 194 goals; could we work out the basis on which this is calculated? What other Brazilian players of that era have infoboxes with their appearance and goal record in it? Maybe we should defer to rsssf.com on this. :::I got in touch with the guy that did the stats for the Rivelino article and he says the following: ::::Hi Jim! I got the Rivelino information from the Corinthians Almanac(an actual book). His club did not play international games at the time, so my mission was easier. I got the information for Fluminense from hthe club website; and the international games from the RSSF Brasil. There was not a proper Brazilian league until 71, so it is generally accepted that the "Rio Sao Paulo" and "Copa Brasil" are considered as domestic leagues. Besides that, the regional championship (Paulista for Corinthians, Carioca for Fluminense) are played officialy in the beginning of the year). I do not see any problem in using the same criteria for Pelé. :::::I will check out the Fluminese website and see if I can get some more information. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 08:05, 11 August 2006 (UTC) #Exactly what were all these hundreds of ''other'' games Pele played? How can they be classified? Are there many sources for this? [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 17:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC) ::Some will be in those small tournaments you found. Others are for Army teams. But I think the vast majority will be in exhibition games for Santos and Cosmos. The ones for Santos are listed somewhere on rsssf.com. I think they also list the ones for Cosmos: at the bottom of each season's info page. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 17:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC) :::The [http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9 Portugeuse Wikipedia article] has loads of good statistics on this. Do you reckon you could translate, Loudevinir?: ::::I'm a litle short of time right now... I'll translate it as soon as possible... [[User:Loudenvier|Loudenvier]] 21:05, 11 August 2006 (UTC) *Seleção do 6º Grupo de Artilharia de Costa Motorizado (6º GACosM)(1959), 11 gols *Seleção Paulista (1959-60 e 1968/69), 11 gols *Seleção das Forças Armadas (1959), 4 gols *Seleção dos Sind. dos Atletas-SP (1961/62), 3 gols *Seleção do Sudeste (1983), 1 gol *Seleção dos Amigos do Garrincha, 1 gol *Seleção Norte Americana de Astros (1975) *Seleção dos ex-atletas do New York Cosmos (1984) *Seleção Brasileira de Seniores (1987) :::In total they're listing the following competitions he played in: :::Campeonato Paulista :::1957 - Santos (17 gols) :::1958 - Santos (58 gols) :::1959 - Santos (45 gols) :::1960 - Santos (33 gols) :::1961 - Santos (47 gols) :::1962 - Santos (37 gols) :::1963 - Santos (22 gols) :::1964 - Santos (34 gols) :::1965 - Santos (49 gols) :::1969 - Santos (26 gols) :::1973 - Santos (11 gols) :::Copa América :::1959 - Brasil (8 gols) :::Campeonato Brasileiro das Forças Armadas :::1959 - Seleção da 6ª Grupo de Artilharia de Costa Motorizado (6º GACosM)(11 gols) :::Campeonato Sul Americano das Forças Armadas :::1959 - Seleção Brasileira das Forças Armadas (11 gols) :::Taça Brasil :::1961 - Santos (9 gols) :::1963 - Santos (12 gols) :::Torneio Rio-São Paulo :::1961 - Santos (7 gols) :::1963 - Santos (15 gols) :::1964 - Santos (3 gols) :::1965 - Santos (7 gols) :::Mundial Interclubes :::1962 - Santos (3 gols) :::Taça Libertadores da América :::1963 - Santos (11 gols) [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 17:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC) I think also that it would be useful, and put to rest most of this squabble if Pele's complete seasonal tally of games/goals would be added to the end of the table. From the big list I total it as (I would like this double checking): :Definitely. But I think we need to be careful how we present the statistics box, so that we include sub-totals for "league" games, other competitive games, non competitive games, etc. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 17:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC) *1956: 2 (2) - double-checked. 2(2) for Santos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1957: 73 (65) - double-checked. 4(6) for "Combined Santos/Vasco"; 2(2) For Brazil; 67 (57) for Santos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1958: 67 (90) - double-checked. 7(10) for Brazil; 60(80) for Santos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1959: 103 (126) - double-checked. 3(3) for "Army National Team"; 1(0) for "Army A"; 6(11) for "Sixth Coast Guard"; 2(1) for Sao Paulo; 8(11) for Brazil; 83(100) for Santos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1960: 82 (73) - double-checked. 6(6) for Sao Paulo; 9(8) for Brazil; 67(59) For Santos. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1961: 75 (111) - double-checked. 1(1) For "Syndicate of Athletes of Sao Paulo"; 74(110) for Santos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1962: 59 (73) - double-checked. 8(8) for Brazil; 1(2) for "Syndicate of Athletes of Sao Paulo"; 50(63) for Santos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1963: 59 (74) - double-checked. 7(7) for Brazil; 52(67) for Santos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1964: 50 (58) - double-checked. 3(1) for Brazil; 47(57) for Santos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1965: 74 (106) - double-checked. 8(9) for Brazil; 66(97) for Santos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1966: 50 (43) - double-checked. 12(12) for Brazil; 38(31) for Santos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1967: 65 (56) - double-checked. 65(56) for Santos. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1968: <strike>80 (60)</strike> 82(60) - could someone triple check? [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) **Yeah, looks like my mistake. 842-761=81 (+1) = 82 [[User:Alii h|aLii]] 02:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC) *** 1(1) For Sao Paulo; 8(4) for Brazil; 73(55) for Santos. *1969: 78 (68) - double-checked. 14(10) for Brazil; 3(1) for Sao Paolo; 61(57) for Santos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1970: 75 (59) - double-checked. 21(12) for Brazil; 54(47) for Santos. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1971: 74 (30) - double-checked. 2(1) for Brazil; 72(29) for Santos. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1972: 74 (50) - double-checked. 74(50) for Santos. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1973: 67 (53) - double-checked. 1(1) for "Brazilian Selection"; 66(52) for Santos. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1974: 45 (19) - double-checked. 45(19) for Santos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) Cosmos years: *1975: 23 (15) - double-checked. 23(15 for Cosmos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1976: 44 (26) - double-checked. 2(0) for "American All-Stars", 1(0) For Brasil (although this may not be a full international, as it was against Flamengo), 41(26) for Cosmos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) *1977: 42 (23) - double-checked. 42(23) for Cosmos [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) [[User:Alii h|aLii]] 11:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC) :All double-checked. However, I think it would be better if we separated out Pele's appearances for Santos/Cosmos from other appearances (e.g., for military teams, Brazil, etc.). I've done a few years and added info to table above. --[[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 12:29, 12 August 2006 (UTC) == Table style change == Inspired by the stats table at [[Hank Aaron]] (He's a baseball player, and in baseball they're kind of into their stats) I've changed the table above to allow us to enter every single goal Pele scored in Santos colours, and also to give a subtotal to make it clear which goals we're counting as "Domestic League". What do you think? We would still need somewhere to put apps/goals for army teams, and other teams Pele played for, but I think this is a good way of dealing with the Santos statistics. [[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 10:11, 12 August 2006 (UTC) == Pelé Eterno redirect == I'm curious, why does [[Pelé Eterno]] redirect to [[Pelé]]? - [[User:ChaChaFut|ChaChaFut]] 03:29, 15 August 2006 (UTC) ::Pelé Eterno is a Portuguese documentary about Pelé. I'm not sure why the redirect was initially setup: perhaps because someone thought the documentary didn't deserve its own page, and because there is a little information about it on the Pelé article. Even the Portuguese Wikipedia doesn't have that much information on the documentary [http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9_Eterno], but perhaps someone could create a stub on the English Wikipedia? I'm not sure if it was released in English-speaking countries, but the imdb do give it an English title [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420066/] so I guess we can assume it was. --[[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 10:27, 15 August 2006 (UTC) == Confusing sentences == The two sentences below are very confusing to me:<br> ''The table below attempts to record every goal Pelé scored in competitive club competition for Santos and New York Cosmos. At this moment it is known of various games that are not included (for instance Pelé's 7 goals in the Intercontinental Cup), but all major annual competitions are included.''<br> Can someone rewrite this so that it makes sense (and has correct grammar)? What exactly is included in the table and what isn't? You can't say that it is "every goal" but "various games are not included". That sounds contradictory. If it is just a list of "all major annual competitions", it should simply say that. [[User:Kaldari|Kaldari]] 01:09, 21 August 2006 (UTC) :This has been fixed. [[User:Kaldari|Kaldari]] 06:18, 25 August 2006 (UTC) == Goalscoring table again... == Glad to see Pele got the WPF AID. It's just a bummer that my dissertation is due on Friday, or I would do more serious work. Maybe I'll have my own AID for Pele next week. One thing I would like to see by the end of the week is the expanded goals table being included in the article. With this in mind, what do you all reckon about merging the last two columns, so that all of Pele's goals in friendlies and small competitions are in one column? This could be headed "Other Club Goals" and a note be put in to explain precisely what this meant. I really don't want to go through the entire goal list and pin each goal to a competition or friendly, but at least this way of working would give someone else the option to do this in the future. --[[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 23:09, 21 August 2006 (UTC) == 1,281 or 1,282? goals== Twice this article states that Pele is credited with scoring 1,281 goals, and twice the article states that he scored a total of 1,282 goals. The article should either cite one statistic consistantly or explain the descrepancy within the article text. That is, if we believe the 1,282 stat is correct and the 1,281 stat is incorrect, we need to explain why in the article. Otherwise it is an unexplained contradiction. [[User:Kaldari|Kaldari]] 06:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC) :The lower number is the more often quoted. The higher number comes from the big excel file, which claims that it counts a few friendly games from the end of his career that aren't usually counted. However if one removes these (3, I think) games, then Pele's goals go down to 1,280 (he scored 2 in one game), so the numbers still aren't consistent. I guess 1,281 is the number we should probably go with. [[User:Alii h|aLii]] 08:43, 25 August 2006 (UTC) ::If we are going to resolve this I think we'll need get hold of some more official statistics. Does the IFFHS supply this for free? Otherwise, there is the Duarte book which lists every one of Pele's goals. It would be good to get this resolved. --[[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 16:45, 25 August 2006 (UTC) :::Yes, it would especially be good to get this resolved before Wikipedia Version 0.5 is finalized. The review period for 0.5 is scheduled to end on September 30th. After that, some version of this article will be written into stone (or more likely a DVD). It would be unfortunate to have this ambiguity remaining in the version selected for 0.5. Alternatively, why is not possible to just explain the discrepancy within the text of the article? Right now the reader is still left with the question of "Why does Wikipedia claim that Pele scored 1,282 goals if most sources say he scored 1,281?". Putting "See also the talk page" in the article (as it does now) is absolutely not acceptable (since Wikipedia self-references are not allowed). We should either remove the discrepency or add a paragraph to the article text (not in the notes) which says which sources claim 1,281 and which sources claim 1,282 and let the reader decide for themselves. [[User:Kaldari|Kaldari]] 20:55, 17 September 2006 (UTC) I have resolved the goalscoring discrepancy for now. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Pelé&diff=77453787&oldid=77449668 this edit] for my changes. [[User:Kaldari|Kaldari]] 01:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC) == Problem with this paragraph in Pelé article == I have a problem with the following statement made in the Pelé article: ''"Although the Brazilian domestic league system provided every single starter from the 1958, 1962, and 1970 Brazil World Cup Champions,[32] perhaps leading one to the assumption that it was the world's strongest league during the years of Pelé's career, one also has to take into account the state nature of the league. '''At the time Santos mainly played against other teams from the São Paulo region, whereas the best players were spread around teams all across Brazil"''''' If you're going to make that claim you should at least elaborate on that. For example, mention the fact that in 1958 and 1962 '''all''' players on the brazilian national team played in either São Paulo or Rio De Janeiro and in 1970 only 5 players played outside of those two states. Besides the São Paulo state championship there was also the Torneio Rio-São Paulo which Santos and Pelé participated in every year. So, in essence, Pelé did,in fact,play against the best players in Brasil year in and year out. You don't make it seem that way in the aforementioned paragraph. --[[User:R9magia|R9magia]] 00:09, 22 September 2006 (UTC) :Reword it then, but be warned; the previous incarnation of this paragraph had some rubbish about Pele's feats being even more incredible due to the fact that all the best players in the world played in Brazil at the time. The fact is that the Brazilian domestic football scene was incredibly diluted compared to the top leagues of any European nation. :Note that Pele never played more than 8 games in a season in the Torneio Rio-São Paulo, and only twice did he average more than a goal a game. In the Taça de Prata and Campeonato Brasileiro Pele never got close ot averaging a goal a game. However in the weaker Campeonato Paulista, where he played most of his competitive matches, Pele averaged more than a goal a game in ten seperate seasons. I personally think the numbers back up the above highlighted sentence. [[User:Alii h|aLii]] 20:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC) ==1966 world cup section== the "hungary" link links to portugal not hungary. :The good thing is you can fix it yourself, by pressing the "edit this page" button. Anyways, it is now corrected :) [[User:Poulsen|Poulsen]] 11:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC) Why is Pele regarded as "The Greatest" like if it was a fact of life?? What makes Pele stand out among other Football Greats? His 3 World Cups of course, Pele is praised as having won 3 World Cups (1958, 1962, and 1970) -while in reality- Pele won 2 World Cups (1958 and 1970 - Kind of makes him closer to Zidane and Maradona, doesn't it?), as Brazil actually won the 1962 World Cup without Pele. Garrincha was the outstanding figure of the 1962 World Cup, and Pele's absence was hardly noticeable. And a fact that is so massively overlooked is the fact that the 1958 Brazil side was clearly better than the 1962 Brazil - Now this last statement will always state that "if Brazil won the 1962 World Cup without Pele, then Brazil could have easily won the 1958 and 1970 World Cups without Pele". By the way, The teams that faced Brazil in the 1958 World Cup, well here's an interesting quote from a player who faced Brazil in 1958, Mel Hopkins - "Garrincha was considered more of a threat than Pele back then" "a phenomenon, capable of sheer magic". In fact Didi was voted as the player of the tournament in the 1958 World Cup. Pele was impressive for only being 17 years old, but Pele was NOT the best player of the 1958 World Cup - Both Didi and Garrincha were more outstanding. (Luis, Spain) Another noticeable fact about Pele, is his unique World Cup record; played 2 out of 4 World Cups, he suffered injuries in 1962 and 1966. It is an odd record because players usually play through the pain barrier, this is the FIFA World Cup Tournament and injured players usually play through it. A noticeable fact about Pele's World Cup record is the fact that Pele only managed to deliver when Brazil had dream-teams, that is Pele only managed to deliver in 1958 and 1970. I mean, did Brazil needed Pele in 1958 and 1970?? Of course not!! they could've easily afforded to play without Pele, just like in 1962. Now, why couldn't Pele deliver when Brazil could not afford to play without him?? Why couldn't Pele deliver in 1966?? What happened in 1962 and 1966?? Well, firstly it is important to acknowledge the fact that Brazil used the same exact 11 players in the 1958 and 1962 World Cups (with a slight difference in 1962, as Pele suffered an injury in the Opening Group Match). In 1966 Brazil used the same aging champions, with a slight change as Nilton Santos didn't figured in the team. Now, unlike in 1958 and 1962 - in 1966 the ex-champions were way past their prime, and they were already veterans by 1962. By 1966 Garrincha was finished, Nilton Santos gone, and Brazil (unlike in 1958, 1962 and 1970)fully depended on Pele. What happened?? Just like in 1962, when things got tough, Pele got injured.. and with Pele's injury, Brazil's hopes of defending the title ended, just like that. (Luis, Spain) Now the bottom line of the point I'm trying to make is - Pele could not withstand the pressure of playing with average teams, he could not handle the physical pressure, his body could not take it, and proof of that are the 1962 and 1966 World Cups - Pele could not withstand the demands that come hand in hand with being a team's focal point. On the other hand, when Brazil had dream teams playing, that is; Garrincha, Didi, Nilton Santos, Rivelino, Jairzinho, Gerson, Carlos Alberto, etc, etc.. It was in this star-studded sides that Pele managed to deliver because he had freedom, he had space, he had less pressure from opponents because opponents were too busy trying to mark Garrincha. In other words, with the Brazilian veterans of 1962 and 1966 - Pele received more attention and pressure from opponents as Pele was the only player in his prime, only 25 years old by 1966. Luckily for Brazil, Garrincha played by 1962.. but unfortunately there was no Garricnha to save them in 1966. Pele is one of the greatest, that's unquestionable -but- Pele never managed to deliver as his team's focal point, Pele was never a leader for Brazil, Pele never managed to deliver under the same circumstances as Garrincha, Johan Cruijff, and Diego Armando Maradona. (Luis, Spain) <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.50.81.81|72.50.81.81]] ([[User talk:72.50.81.81|talk]]) 08:22, 3 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> ==GA passed== :'''1. Well written?''' '''Pass''' :'''2. Factually accurate?''' '''Pass''' :'''3. Broad in coverage?''' '''Pass''' :'''4. Neutral point of view?''' '''Pass''' :'''5. Article stability?''' '''Pass''' :'''6. Images?''' '''Pass''' Additional comments : * The article should state his name as ''Pelé'' not as sometimes written Pele (that should be easy to fix). * The end of the section '''Santos''' is a bit weak. * In the table, the club names should be valigned in the center. [[User:Lincher|Lincher]] 17:07, 13 October 2006 (UTC) == [[Cultural depictions of Pelé]] == I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on ''in popular culture'' information. I started that last year while I raised [[Joan of Arc]] to [[WP:FA|featured article]] when I created [[Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc]], which has become a [[WP:FL|featured list]]. Recently I also created [[Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great]] out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this as a model for the editors here. Regards, '''[[User:Durova|<font color="blue">Durova</font>]]''' 15:04, 17 October 2006 (UTC) == Pele's goal-record... == Over the summer a few of us did a lot of work on sorting out Pele's goal record, and we added a good list of statistics to the main article. We then modified the statistics a little and kept our progress on the Talk Page, with a few to eventually moving it over. The table still isn't finished, but all that remains to be done is a bit of donkey work (the cells with "question marks" can be easily inferred with a little subtraction). I've moved the table into the article in the hope that someone will do the donkey work for me!! --[[User:James_Kemp|Jim]] ([[User_talk:James_Kemp|Talk]]) 01:17, 1 January 2007 (UTC) == One more meaning of Pelé == In [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_language Lithuanian language] the word 'Pelė' means both [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse Mouse] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_%28computing%29 Mouse (computing)]. See [http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namin%C4%97_pel%C4%97 House Mouse (in Lithuanian)] Similar to Lithuanian language is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_language Latvian language]. In Latvian language the word 'Pele' have the same meanings as the word 'Pelė' in Lithuanian language. See [http://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pele Mouse (in Latvian)] But the Lithuanian word 'Pelė' is almost exact as the word 'Pelé'. [[User:Robertukas|Robertukas]] 16:44, 28 March 2007 (UTC) ==Greatest Player of All-Time== I can provide a large number of links to media and/or expert polls ranking Pele as the best footballer in history. Other than a controversial Internet fan poll that favored Maradona, I know of no other widely publicized poll that did not rank Pele as the top player in history. For that reason, I think it is certainly fair to say that he is widely considered the greatest player of all-time. That choice of words does not assert that it is necessarily the case, or that the certain individuals are not free to disagree, it merely states a belief that is widely held, based on the bulk of the evidence available. If necessary, I'll provide links for the many polls or rankings if anyone thinks that is appropriate or necessary. [[User:Ronnymexico|Ronnymexico]] 14:28, 3 April 2007 (UTC) :Ronny, your insertion of "A consensus of media and expert polls rank Pele as the greatest footballer of all-time. [26]" is still a problem in my view. If these polls are notable (some seem not in my opinion) then they should be listed as, for example, "Pele came top of France Football's Football Player of the Century poll". This should be stated rather than just "A consensus of media and expert polls rank Pele as the greatest footballer of all-time". [[User:Stubacca|<font color = "green">'''Stu'''</font>]] [[User talk:Stubacca|<font color = "green">^{''’Bout ye!''}</font>]] 15:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC) :: Do you feel that it's a problem because they aren't spelled out or because you don't feel that it's a consensus? I figured that the "consensus" statement was proven via the link (there are others that aren't there as well, BBC and L'Equipe off the top of my head, I have a list somewhere that I can track down) and thought it would help make the page less cluttered and easier to navigate by simply providing the link rather than listing out "France Football ranks Pele as the best", "International Federation of Football History and Statistics' poll ranks Pele as the best," "La Republicca ranks Pele as the best," "Placar Magazine ranks Pele as the best," etc. etc. [[User:Ronnymexico|Ronnymexico]] 15:37, 4 April 2007 (UTC) ::: Yeah, listing each individual one would be too cluttered. How about "In media and expert polls, Pele consistantly ranks top.", or something along those lines. [[User:Stubacca|<font color = "green">'''Stu'''</font>]] [[User talk:Stubacca|<font color = "green">^{''’Bout ye!''}</font>]] 12:22, 12 April 2007 (UTC) {{related discussion|Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football}} == Pele's last match == Pele's stub on his last match contains some inaccuracies. I suggest it be expanded as follows: On October 1, 1977, Pelé closed out his legendary career in an exhibition match between the Cosmos and Santos. Santos arrived in New York and New Jersey after previously defeating the Seattle Sounders 2-0. The match was played in front of a capacity crowd at Giants Stadium and was televised in the United States on ABC's Wide World of Sports as well as throughout the world. Pele's father and wife both attended the match. Pele gave a brief pre-match speech during which he asked the crowd to say the word "love" with him three times. Pele played the first half for the Cosmos and the second half for Santos. Reynaldo scored the first goal for Santos, kicking the ball into the net after it had deflected off the crossbar. Pele then scored his final goal on a direct free kick, driving the ball past the diving Santos goalkeeper. At halftime, the Cosmos retired Pele's number 10. Pele presented his Cosmos shirt to his father, who was escorted to the field by Cosmos captain Werner Roth. During the second half, Cosmos striker Ramon Mifflin, who had replaced Pele when he switched sides at halftime, scored on a deflected cross, and the Cosmos won the match 2-1. After the match, Pele was embraced by the Cosmos players, including longtime rival Giorgio Chinaglia, and then ran around the field while holding an American flag in his left hand and a Brazilian flag in his right hand. Pele was soon lifted by several Cosmos players and carried around the field. After the match, Pele and his wife gave a tearful interview to Frank Gifford of ABC with his wife at his side. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Daesups16|Daesups16]] ([[User talk:Daesups16|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Daesups16|contribs]]) 05:19, 15 April 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> "He is also recognized as the only football player to score more than one thousand goals in the history of professional football." That is totally wrong... : romario has equalled this tally now, - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6675363.stm but he admits this included youth games and friendly.--[[User:Numberwang|Numberwang]] 10:38, 21 May 2007 (UTC) == lost silver trophie of pele found == i work with a brazilen and he happen to find a silver trophy from brylcreem in the name of pele's name , does anybody now if he lost a trophie dated in 1961 <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/76.19.163.83|76.19.163.83]] ([[User talk:76.19.163.83|talk]]) 21:45, 29 April 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> == lost silver trophie of pele found == he happened to go to brazil 17 years ago and went to visit family members, he says he was washing clothing outside and looked up at a window that had an old antique cup on it with tooth brushes in it, he looked up at the cup and grabed it to look at, when he noticed some engraving on it he cleaned it and it read taca de brazil pele's name, brlycreem the reason why he recevied it which was for scoreing the most goals for that year 1961 then he asked the the guy who lived there who was a friend if he can have it and he said he had that cup on his window for years and he was tired of looking at it and he can have it not nowing what it actualy was. i'm writeing this becauce the guy that has this trophie showed it to me and he said he had it for 17 years on his mantal he finaly wanted to now if it was authentic which he says it is but he wants to sell it. personly i think it's real but i have now way of nowing this unless i make it public or some one give me information on going about getting some attention for this. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/76.19.163.83|76.19.163.83]] ([[User talk:76.19.163.83|talk]]) 22:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> ==Discoverer== Who is this Medardo 'Lalo' Olea? Is he really a "renowned football star"? [[User:Clarityfiend|Clarityfiend]] 01:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC) :I second Clarityfiend's question. I follow football quite closely but I've never heard of this Medardo character. It would be good to have this point clarified. [[User:MUSIKVEREIN|MUSIKVEREIN]] 20:30, 1 October 2007 (UTC) ::Sounds like BS to me. Google shows little. A [http://www.pele-football.com/ website] with the same text as en:WP (so we may have a copyvio issue), and a [http://www.midcityscion.com/Department-Preowned.aspx car dealership] in Eureka, Cailfornia showing a picture of a salesman called Medardo Olea. The interesting issue here is that his email address includes the nickname 'Lalo' (Note that Lalo is a common nickname in Spanish). Sounds fishy to me. Now we have to check the logs to see when this was added and by whom. Would you care to bet it came from an ISP serving Eureka, California? [[User:Alexf|Alexf]]<small>^{([[User talk:Alexf|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Alexf|Contribs]])}</small> 21:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC) :::That's what I thought. I've changed it based on a ''Time'' magazine source. [[User:Clarityfiend|Clarityfiend]] 19:07, 2 October 2007 (UTC) :Good show, Clarityfiend. That Medardo bit was most likely a vandalistic hoax. [[User:MUSIKVEREIN|MUSIKVEREIN]] 20:28, 2 October 2007 (UTC)''' == Continuous vandalism == Barely a day goes by without some troll vandalising the Pelé page, thus causing many good faith editors - myself included - the trouble of having to undo insults, POV remarks and inaccuracies thrown in there on a daily basis. Most if not all of these disturbers are anons whose only purpose is to violate the Wikipedia rules. The latest perpetrator, a certain 209.50.156.164, is a case in point: go to his talk page and all you'll find is a staggering roster of warning and temporary blocking messages (to no avail, since he is at it again as soon as the block is lifted). These "users" should be blocked indefinitely. Also, isn't there a technical way to protect the Pelé page from further editing, at least for some time ? [[User:MUSIKVEREIN|MUSIKVEREIN]] 18:03, 6 November 2007 (UTC) :You can [[Wikipedia:Requests for page protection|request page protection]], in which case IP and new users will not be able to edit the article. I will do this now, as it appears the article is vandalized quite frequently. [[User:Jack|Jack]]<small><font style="font-variant: small-caps; font-size: 105%">[[User talk:Jackrm|?!]]</font></small> 15:47, 19 November 2007 (UTC) Thanks, Jack?!. That's exactly what I had in mind. Let's see if giving the page some respite will improve matters at least a little. [[User:MUSIKVEREIN|MUSIKVEREIN]] ([[User talk:MUSIKVEREIN|talk]]) 18:49, 23 November 2007 (UTC) == Pele vs Pelé == His nickname definitely carries the accent on the second "e", otherwise, it would not represent how this word is spoken. "Pele", is the word for "skin" in Portuguese, while "pelé" has some other origin . Therefore, I'm replacing all instances of "Pele" in the article for "Pelé". [[User:Fmobus|hawck]] ([[User talk:Fmobus|talk]]) 01:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC) It's pointless to use pronunciation as proof of spelling; otherwise we could start respelling all kinds of names. The point is that ''Pele'' is an anglicised form of the nickname. Since this article is in English, it would be justifiable to use that spelling. I think it's fine to use the accented form, but you shouldn't just dismiss the alternative in the way that you did. What use is it to say that ''Pelé'' has "some other origin" as if that proves anything? [[User:Salopian|Salopian]] ([[User talk:Salopian|talk]]) 10:46, 4 February 2008 (UTC) ==Why does Pele get different rules to all other players?== I'm just curious. We have a table even in his article, with indepedent sources which say in the league for Santos he scored 589 goals in 605 games, but until I made an edit to correct the infobox it included the unofficial games in the player template.. yet the player template specifically states "''Senior club appearances and goals counted for the '''domestic league only'''.''" :$ ... is this not a double standard? All players need to have the same standard. - [[User:Sivorian|Sivorian]] ([[User talk:Sivorian|talk]]) 22:13, 29 November 2007 (UTC) == Edison vs. Edson == There is a controversy now going on the page about the correct spelling of Pelé's real name. What happens is that Pelé was effectively registered as "Edison", because his father got the name from the American inventor [[Thomas Edison]]. However, since the form "Edson" is vastly more popular in Brazil, that is the spelling that came to be associated with Pelé's name, and that is how his real name is written virtually everywhere in that country (newspapers, magazines, books, etc.). So, there it is: "Edison" is technically and formally the correct spelling, but everybody in Brazil refers to Pelé's real name as "Edson". [[User:MUSIKVEREIN|MUSIKVEREIN]] ([[User talk:MUSIKVEREIN|talk]]) 13:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC) He is definitely named after Thomas Edison, but he's very explicit in his autobiography that his name is Edson. He does not say that it's ''Edison'' on the birth certificate but came to be ''Edson''. Might it not be the case that his father used the ''Edson'' spelling when registering his birth? [[User:Salopian|Salopian]] ([[User talk:Salopian|talk]]) 11:22, 21 January 2008 (UTC) As a matter of fact, Pelé's father registered him as "Edison", exactly like the inventor, and that can be clearly seen in his birth certificate. However and for the reason I pointed out above, everybody in Brazil writes his "real" name as Edson. Therefore, if you want to be technically accurate, it's Edison; if you want to go the way his real name is referred to in his country, it's Edson. Perhaps a way to put an end to this apparently never-ending controversy is to mention this circumstance on his page. [[User:MUSIKVEREIN|MUSIKVEREIN]] ([[User talk:MUSIKVEREIN|talk]]) 12:29, 22 January 2008 (UTC) :No, it's nothing to do with 'everybody in Brazil'. It's what his family called him from the start. (What I imagine may have happened is that the clerk wrote down ''Edison'', assuming the father to be undecuated.) [[User:Salopian|Salopian]] ([[User talk:Salopian|talk]]) 01:40, 13 May 2008 (UTC) I haven't seen his birth certificate. Where can I view it? However, the point is that he was called ''Edson'' from birth, regardless of what he he was registered as. So it should be made clear that ''Edson'' is not a form that took over once he was famous, but that it was the name his family gave him. [[User:Salopian|Salopian]] ([[User talk:Salopian|talk]]) 10:45, 4 February 2008 (UTC) Pelé's birth certificate can be seen in Aníbal Massaini's documentary feature "Pelé Eterno" (which translates loosely to "Pelé Forever"). In the first part of the movie, there's a camera close up on the certificate, and Pelé's registered name comes through quite clearly. [[User:MUSIKVEREIN|MUSIKVEREIN]] ([[User talk:MUSIKVEREIN|talk]]) 12:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC) :If "technically" his name was registered as ''Edison'', than ''Edson'' is much more a nickname than his name ''de facto''. "Edison" is the name his family gave to him, and in terms of Law he is known as "Edison". It may, perhaps, be pointed that, nevertheless, he's more known as "Edson", but cannot state that this is his <u>name</u>. --[[User:Tonyjeff|Tonyjeff]] ([[User talk:Tonyjeff|talk]]) 23:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC) ::No, his ''de facto'' name is definitely ''Edson'': unless he is lying in his autobiography, he was called that by his family from birth. It's his ''de jure'' name that is apparently ''Edison''. [[User:Salopian|Salopian]] ([[User talk:Salopian|talk]]) 01:37, 13 May 2008 (UTC) :::There is no point in arguing ''de jure'' and ''de facto'' names. I may create a nickname for myself and become more known by it, being called so by relatives and anybody else. The nickname may be a misspelling of my name (in fact, something very common in Brazil). Even so, my <u>name</u> will be the original one, which is registered in my birth certificate. It may be pointed that he is more known as ''Edson'', but not state that this is his <u>name</u>. --[[User:Tonyjeff|Tonyjeff]] ([[User talk:Tonyjeff|talk]]) 14:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC) ::::''De facto'' implies something much stronger than just a nickname, and as such describes the situation here. I don't know about Brazilian law, but in the U.K. one can use a different name legally, so long as one uses it everywhere in one's life, without changing it by deed poll. Anyway, the point is that you cannot just state that one's unequivocal name is the one on one's birth certificate. I have no idea about Wikipedia guidelines -- do they state that full name means 'string of letters on one's birth certificate'? Certainly the article should state both what's on the certificate and what he was called from birth unless someone here actually knows what they are talking about when it comes to Brazilian law. You need to get into a neutral mindset, instead of talking about the version used by the family as a "misspelling" of the certificate version. [[User:Salopian|Salopian]] ([[User talk:Salopian|talk]]) 12:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC) ::In Brazil, one must modify the registry of the name to be considered legally, just like [[Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva]] and [[José Sarney]]. Otherwise, it will be just like a nickname. I have already said that it may be pointed that he is more known as ''Edson'', but not state that this is his <u>name</u>. Even because, if we should consider his <u>name</u> the nick by which he is more known, it would be "Pelé". --[[User:Tonyjeff|Tonyjeff]] ([[User talk:Tonyjeff|talk]]) 04:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC) I am currently working in collaboration with Pele on an authorized book that takes in his early life and times. He insists on me calling him Edson in our conversations (he refers to Pele in the third person). As he is the greatest footballer of all time, I think we should make it clear in his Wikipedia entry that he considers himself to be Edson, not Edison. I have made the insertion, and look forward to your comments. Kindest regards [[User:Sammypepys|Sammypepys]] ([[User talk:Sammypepys|talk]]) 18:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC) == Sorry == sry for my last mistake, inadvertently I press "save page" instead of "show preview" anyway is good to see that this page had acquired some protection and I agree with Sivorian that all players must have the same standard <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cybershore|Cybershore]] ([[User talk:Cybershore|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cybershore|contribs]]) 02:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> it even says in his autobiograghy that his dad made the mistake so it should actually be spelt with no "i". <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mazzzzza|Mazzzzza]] ([[User talk:Mazzzzza|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mazzzzza|contribs]]) 21:05, 15 June 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> == Personal Life == Other than the info about his early life, this entry contains no information about Pele's personal life: girlfriends, wives, children, residences, etc. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/69.181.209.105|69.181.209.105]] ([[User talk:69.181.209.105|talk]]) 06:03, 11 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> - Perhaps just because it's not interesting. [[Special:Contributions/78.82.231.237|78.82.231.237]] ([[User talk:78.82.231.237|talk]]) 21:42, 25 February 2008 (UTC) == My contribution == Hi, I've made a contribution on "Others Records" section of Pele main article. I 'd like to receive commentaries and talk about Thank you <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cybershore|Cybershore]] ([[User talk:Cybershore|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cybershore|contribs]]) 04:17, 13 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> Cybershore, I left a note on your talk page about this. Regards, [[User:MUSIKVEREIN|MUSIKVEREIN]] ([[User talk:MUSIKVEREIN|talk]]) 16:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC) == Urgent Investigation == I suggest that it's necessary to look for more sources of referring information to the statistics since the main used here ( the RSSSF ) does not seem to be inside of acceptable standards of research, it does not present full account of detailed source not provided data for [[cross validation]] and comparison with other 'institutions' and all this are essential to avoid the proliferation of [[Data snooping]] in Wikipedia. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/201.52.189.184|201.52.189.184]] ([[User talk:201.52.189.184|talk]]) 19:07, 17 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> == Clean Up == I believe the article about Pele are good but need a clean up or Better explanations about some claims and other player’s names included, basically those names and claims that don’t add nothing to the article and seems, without better reason, just placed to make stand out these same claims ( without fundaments ) and names. I put here my arguments : 1)Maradona : in the FiFa poll by internet some years ago he “won” it with irregularities as for example having 4,000 votes from just one same ID from Argentina and the guy who did it subscribed himself to vote as "george bush jr.". Pele then recognized the sense of humour and the comicality of situation and accepted divide the award ( The Player of the Century ). I content that this important fact must be quote or the mentions about the other player and this award (just one more received by Pele) should be rethinked; 2)Bican : There is no evidence from anywhere Or reliable arguments from more than one independent and established statical institutions that provide the claims about Bican’s supposed records and 3)The claims from these people insist in count only the goals scored by Pele in Championships Leagues But make the curious and rough mistake in consider the goals scored by him in short term International Tournaments between European and South American teams – a very common event in 1960’s – as if scored in friendly matches what seems not just a coarse error but a aforethought and ill-meaning act. I hope have helped to give some light about this matter. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/189.62.138.203|189.62.138.203]] ([[User talk:189.62.138.203|talk]]) 00:49, 12 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> Yeah, I agree there are too much names with flaw claims against him <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/189.62.34.26|189.62.34.26]] ([[User talk:189.62.34.26|talk]]) 19:37, 13 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> == Cleanup in 'Other Records' == I tagged the 'Other Records' section for cleanup--the first paragraph is okay, but the remaining paragraphs have not only grammatical and spelling problems, but also don't read as an encyclopedia should. The information it presents may be useable in a rewrite, but it definitely needs to be rewritten, as.....well, there's just so much wrong with it--including, as I just noticed, barely relevant, if not completely irrelevant, information concerning Brazilian football teams in general. I'll add an importance-sect template right now. [[User:Excantiaris|Excantiaris]] ([[User talk:Excantiaris|talk]]) 00:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC) I've not altered this section but I have tried to correct the terible grammar where I can so I think this makes sense now. ElGreco55 17:12, 13 March 2008 As not everyone can edit this "Encyclopedia that anyone can edit" There's a bad link behind the penalty cards link in "other records" <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/195.216.82.210|195.216.82.210]] ([[User talk:195.216.82.210|talk]]) 10:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> == About Clean Ups requested == Last edition explained: 1st paragraph, after check the complain in Clean up let by 189.62.138.203 (talk) 00:49, 12 March 2008 (UTC) about the excess of names and flaw claims I found some links about the bad organized FIFA internet poll in 2000, I quote one of them here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/1066833.stm specially FROM 3rd and 4th paragraphs to the end. So, to don´t let a negative citation about another player and since this award are really just another one received by Pele I removed this mention as well as the mentions about some names and claims ( other records section – 2nd paragraph from “However, some remember…” to “…a much more modest number came through.” ) that seems placed here just to stand out at Pele’s expenses; I also rename this same section “Other Records” to “Some Historical Details”, off course this not yet a good name but I think is more related to the matter than the old one anyway feel free to place a better Head for this section. The last change was made in the same section, last paragraph related to penalty cards, changing for a valid link. I found some citations about Pele as goalkeeper but as no one link ( from those I founded ) was in english I let the request pending. fazza has a pie head <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.152.231.30|86.152.231.30]] ([[User talk:86.152.231.30|talk]]) 17:48, 22 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> == Robbed in traffic near Sao Paulo ? == When Pele was headed to Sao Paulo is his chauffeur-driven car ,he got robbed and was forced to hand over a watch, a gold chain, and a mobile telephone to a 10-strong gang of thugs. This happened about two weeks ago,I think. Would someone add this to his article,I think that its pretty important. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/69.116.131.155|69.116.131.155]] ([[User talk:69.116.131.155|talk]]) 19:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> == Nickname == I heard somewhere that pele means "miracle" in Hebrew. Certainly a coincidence, but an interesting one. Does someone know anything about it? [[User:Zhelja|Zhelja]] ([[User talk:Zhelja|talk]]) 15:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC) == Life Magazine == If Pelé was one of the first black persons to be featured on the cover of [[Life (magazine)|''Life'' magazine]], it would have to have been before Jackie Robinson, May 8, 1950, or Dorthy Dandridge, November 1, 1954. It would be sufficient to say he appeared on the cover and cite the issue date. [[User:Group29|Group29]] ([[User talk:Group29|talk]]) 17:17, 11 August 2008 (UTC) == Earnings == Anybody have any information on how much he was paid while playing in Brazil? Also, how did the Brazilian government keep top players from leaving the country to go make big money in Europe, did they take their passports or something? <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/76.19.222.40|76.19.222.40]] ([[User talk:76.19.222.40|talk]]) 07:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> == Other Times, Other Culture, Other Economy, Other World == Indeed the restrictions related to refrain the best talents of then Brazilian Football let the country weren't results of a governmental direct acts But a series of regulation, bylaws of Brazilian Sportive Legislation knowed as "Lei do Passe" as well as the [[Lobbying|Lobby]]'s Power of Club's Managers in the judiciary and legislative branches, amongst others legal ways, to maintain a complete control over the Footballers Professional lives, a social behavior inherit from slavery period. Unlike the Argentineans and Uruguayans for example, the majority of Brazilian players ( after popularization and mainly after the football in Brazil became Professional since the 1920's and 1930's ), came and still come from the low Social/Financial classes with little, if any, regular school education and historic of politic mobilization. The last [[Military Dictatorship in Brazil]] just accentuated these conditions. Important to note that All this was put to use Not just to avoid that the Top Athletes let the country But to Teams shut the doors Out to them include for others clubs from the same Regional League. For a Great player, change Club was practicable just when his career was clearly in the downside, as [[Garrincha]] in the second half of 1960's OR when he was eclipsed by a more talented footballer in his position - in a era when substitutions during the matches weren’t not allowed, this was the case of [[José Altafini| Mazzola]] for example - after lose his position, went to Italy and became a idol there playing the 1962 World Cup for [[Italy national football team| Squadra Azzurra]] ( in those times a player who had did a World Cup for one country wasn't forbade to play another cup for another country ); Same as [[Anfilogino Guarisi| Filó]] already had in 1930's. Back to Pele's era, [[Canario (footballer)| Canario ]] was another player who after lose his position to Garrincha in Botafogo and Brazilian National Team in the end of the 1950's, went to Spain and became champion in the 1960's such as by Madrid. Much before became minister of Sports in the [[Fernando Henrique Cardoso]]'s first Administration Pele protest against this situation calling the "Lei do Passe" as a Slavery on Football. Despite the campaign in the [[Media (communication)|Media]] did by the lobby of clubs against the original project and the after amendments placed by this powerful group, the "Pele's Law" and the "[[Zico]]'s Law" help to put a end on it. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cybershore|Cybershore]] ([[User talk:Cybershore|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cybershore|contribs]]) 02:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> * The flood of big money today in Europe ( Western, mainly ) in Football could made the youngers think erroneously that it always was so. But no: Until the middle 1970's there was no specific place in the Earth that, in average, investments in Football financially and in Structure, were more concentrated than another. We can say for sure that this just happened by the first time when the [[North American Soccer League|NASL]] tried popularized the Sport on [[United States|USA]] in the 1970's. They brought the Best ones along that years and spread them across the clubs in that try: just for curiosity - [[Cruyff]] in 1974, at his best cost Barcelona U$ 1million, Pele in 1975, returning from retirement cost Cosmos U$ 7 million. The American League had, during and after Pele's passage there, Footballers like [[Gerd Müller]], [[Neeskens]], [[Franz Beckenbauer]], [[Carlos Alberto Torres|Carlos Alberto]], [[Eusébio]], [[George Best]], [[Bobby Moore]], [[Teofilo Cubillas]], [[Hugo Sanchez]] and later also Johann Cruyff amonst others in it's teams. Just in the 1980's after the decadence of NASL and European economic growing, the Talents of Football from all World, from [[Africa]] to [[Japan]], even not the exceptional began to migrate there. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cybershore|Cybershore]] ([[User talk:Cybershore|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cybershore|contribs]]) 01:02, 2 October 2008 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> ==[[KBE?]]== Why, of all his honors, is this one put right at the top next to his name? It's simply an honor from a single (relatively small and unimportant) state so it seems very odd indeed that it is given such precedence in this article. I can only surmise that the editor in question is from the country which gave that honor and is attempting in this way to link his or her nation with Pelé. [[Special:Contributions/86.45.1.225|86.45.1.225]] ([[User talk:86.45.1.225|talk]]) 01:17, 25 January 2009 (UTC) :Well, this is relative I guess[[Special:Contributions/189.62.137.227|189.62.137.227]] ([[User talk:189.62.137.227|talk]]) 16:45, 26 January 2009 (UTC) == Another Meaning of Pele == The Hebrew word pele( פּלא )literally translates to mean a wonder or a miracle. [[Special:Contributions/196.23.241.140|196.23.241.140]] ([[User talk:196.23.241.140|talk]]) 19:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC) Joel Block (Johannesburg, South Africa) == name == other references has Pele's first name as EDSON and not EDISON <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/173.56.59.108|173.56.59.108]] ([[User talk:173.56.59.108|talk]]) 01:56, 21 June 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> :The best reference to Pele's name is his birth certificate, which can be seen in the movie "Pele Forever". --[[User:Tonyjeff|Tonyjeff]] ([[User talk:Tonyjeff|talk]]) 02:54, 22 June 2009 (UTC) Perhaps it is a spelling or usage matter. Both names should be referenced with the birth certificate explanation added. [[User:Sabbahillel|Sabba Hillel]] ([[User talk:Sabbahillel|talk]]) 16:23, 10 July 2009 (UTC) hjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjk'