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'{{Vital article|class=start|level=5|topic=Society}} {{WikiProjectBannerShell|1= {{WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology|class=start}} {{WikiProject Wales|class=start|importance=top}} }} ==Merge== Does anyone else think that [[Y Ddraig Goch]] should be merged with this? - [[User:Calum Hutchinson| <span style="color:#0065BD">'''calum'''</span>]] 17:18, 11 June 2006 (UTC) == Flag of Saint David == How come that is not the national flag? I think it is a political statement that England's Saint George the Dragonslayer rules over Wales's Dragon. Besides, isn't the dragon a pagan symbol and aren't most Welsh people deeply Christian? [[User:Éponyme|Éponyme]] 18:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC) :The Red Dragon is likely to be Celtic in Origin, and I feel that it symbolizes the fact that Wales is still a part celtic country. Although many religious groups have wanted to change the flag it has been upholded by traditional beliefs--[[User:McFlame|McFlame]] 19:53, 31 July 2007 (UTC) ==Satanic?== Is there any reason for any of this "opposition" section to exist? A new political party surfaces and announces the dragon is satanic; fails to be elected; disappears off Google. What is encyclopedic about this? I can't find the party website, only stories in the press from around the time of the election. A case of undue weight? [[User:Telsa|Telsa]] [[User talk:Telsa|(talk)]] 18:29, 8 September 2007 (UTC) :In the absence of replies, I have been bold. Zap. [[User:Telsa|Telsa]] [[User talk:Telsa|(talk)]] 09:03, 11 September 2007 (UTC) == Two flags == Why is there both [[Image:Flag_of_Wales.svg|75px]] ''and'' [[Image:Flag_of_Wales_2.svg|75px]] on Wikipedia? [[Special:Contributions/212.137.63.86|212.137.63.86]] ([[User talk:212.137.63.86|talk]]) 12:31, 17 September 2008 (UTC) == Malta == hate to be pedantic but where's the dragon on the maltese flag? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/62.73.132.82|62.73.132.82]] ([[User talk:62.73.132.82|talk]]) 09:59, 1 October 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> :Not that I added the information to the article, but if you go to the [[Flag of Malta]], enlarge the top flag, and within the George Cross is St George on horseback attacking the dragon. [[User:FruitMonkey|FruitMonkey]] ([[User talk:FruitMonkey|talk]]) 16:39, 1 October 2010 (UTC) ::In my opinion it's a bit <i>tenuous</i> to claim the dragon as a design element of the Maltese flag. OK, theoretically there's an image of Pistrucci's St George slaying the dragon in the middle of the George Cross, but in practice nobody would ever be able to see it if they were looking at the Maltese flag flying on a flagpole. I'm going to de-emphasise it. -- [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel Parry]] [[User_talk:Arwel Parry|(talk)]] 20:17, 29 August 2011 (UTC) :::Here is the question. Is there, or isn't there a dragon on the Maltese flag? Yes or no. Size is not an issue. [[User:FruitMonkey|FruitMonkey]] ([[User talk:FruitMonkey|talk]]) 23:05, 29 August 2011 (UTC) ::::Yes there is, and it deserves to be mentioned in this article. However it is a bit obscure, and so I am quite happy with Arwel's change. I'm not sure why you say that size is not an issue - remember that this is an article about the Welsh flag, not about flags with dragons on. [[User:Bazonka|Bazonka]] ([[User talk:Bazonka|talk]]) 07:09, 30 August 2011 (UTC) :::::Fair point, I too think the update is fine. I hit the talk page before seeing the ammendment. [[User:FruitMonkey|FruitMonkey]] ([[User talk:FruitMonkey|talk]]) 08:27, 30 August 2011 (UTC) == Exclusion == I am waiting to hear why the Cross of St George is not the official flag of Wales seeing as it represents Wales on the country's sovereign flag, the Union Flag. I am sure there is a valid reason why the official Welsh flag is not the English flag but this article does not deal with it at all.[[Special:Contributions/219.89.230.157|219.89.230.157]] ([[User talk:219.89.230.157|talk]]) 09:48, 14 June 2016 (UTC) The section on exclusion is over-written: Wales is not represented in the Union flag because it was considered part of England; oh and a bit of trivia that the Daily Telegraph had a fun competition to add Wales in. No one of great noteworthiness proposed the image shown, the shown image does not represent any great significance. May as well try to find a still from The Simpsons with a Welsh flag in the background, that would have just as much significance. [[Special:Contributions/81.97.131.168|81.97.131.168]] ([[User talk:81.97.131.168|talk]]) 22:25, 3 March 2011 (UTC) :The same could be said of the paragraph that starts: ''In 2007, the Welsh Christian Party adopted the stance that the Red Dragon was a symbol of the devil...'' I'll add [[Template:Importance-section]] to both sections. [[User:Ham|Ham]] 20:44, 5 March 2011 (UTC) :::so the consensus is to remove both parts? [[User:Tinynanorobots|Tinynanorobots]] ([[User talk:Tinynanorobots|talk]]) 22:59, 15 September 2011 (UTC) ==File:Welsh Dragon Memorial Mametz Wood.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion== <!--TSTAMP:{{{4}}}--> {| |- | [[File:Image-x-generic.svg|100px]] | <!--IMAGES--> An image used in this article, [[:File:Welsh Dragon Memorial Mametz Wood.jpg|File:Welsh Dragon Memorial Mametz Wood.jpg]], has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: ''Wikipedia files with no non-free use rationale as of 27 October 2011'' <!--/IMAGES--> ;What should I do? ''Don't panic''; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review [[WP:CSD|deletion guidelines]] before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. * If the image is [[WP:NFCC|non-free]] then you may need to provide a [[WP:FUR|fair use rationale]] * If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used. * If the image has already been deleted you may want to try [[WP:DRV|Deletion Review]] ''This notification is provided by a Bot'' --[[User:CommonsNotificationBot|CommonsNotificationBot]] ([[User talk:CommonsNotificationBot|talk]]) 15:45, 28 October 2011 (UTC) |} == Before 1959 == Whilst editing, my reason for doing so was cut short. Simply because the Welsh Flag was "accepted" by the British Heraldic establishment in 1959 does not mean it was not used by the people of Wales before that. (It quite obviously was, as any discussion with any Welsh person born before 1959 will show.) However, that is immaterial, as the onus of proof is on someone to prove that the use of the Welsh flag at the election of Lloyd George was wrong or anachronistic. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/90.199.254.249|90.199.254.249]] ([[User talk:90.199.254.249|talk]]) 01:43, 30 September 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> [[User:Ceiniog|Ceiniog]] ([[User talk:Ceiniog|talk]]) 17:55, 30 September 2014 (UTC) Just one quote from BBC history site after quick google search, " in Caernarfon in 1911, at the investiture of Edward, Prince of Wales, the flag appeared in its current form" . This takes it back well before 1959, and it may well have been used by Welsh people rather than the British establishment establishment before then. If it were up to someone to prove it was used before 1959 I would look for (much) better references than the BBC, but as I say, it is up to someone who wishes the deleted section to stand to prove that the deleted reference is incorrect/anachronistic. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/90.199.254.249|90.199.254.249]] ([[User talk:90.199.254.249|talk]]) 02:03, 30 September 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> [[User:Ceiniog|Ceiniog]] ([[User talk:Ceiniog|talk]]) 17:55, 30 September 2014 (UTC) A photo of the Welsh Flag ("in its current form") being flown at the International Six Day Trials (motorcycle event) at Llandrindod Wells in 1938 on this site- http://speedtracktales.com/index-of-isdt-events/isdt-1938-wales/ Just one piece of evidence showing that the use of the Welsh flag before 1959 is not "incorrect" or "anachronistic".[[User:Ceiniog|Ceiniog]] ([[User talk:Ceiniog|talk]]) 11:53, 1 October 2014 (UTC) :Did you mean [http://www.nwmba.org.uk/speedtracktales/mediac/400_0/media/ISDT1938A.jpg this photo]? It's so small that there's no way to be certain that the flag is ''identical'' to the modern one. For example, in a small grainy photo [http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74187000/jpg/_74187394_017415694-1.jpg this particular flag] may well ''appear'' to be identical to the modern one, but clearly it isn't!--[[User:Brianann MacAmhlaidh|Brianann MacAmhlaidh]] ([[User talk:Brianann MacAmhlaidh|talk]]) 23:22, 1 October 2014 (UTC) Yes, I mean the flag which both you and I linked to. It is quite obviously the Welsh flag, as is the second one you link to. What is your point? The second image is the Welsh flag. Assuming you (for some reason) think the dragon in the second link is a bit different (to whatever you have unilaterally decided a Welsh dragon should look like), the dragon appears in many different forms on the flag, there is no official version of it. It appears in many different forms on Welsh flags. The one you link to is not particularly unusual. I would suggest you invest in a pair of reading glasses if you cannot see the obvious Welsh flag in the 1938 photo. [[User:Ceiniog|Ceiniog]] ([[User talk:Ceiniog|talk]]) 00:27, 2 October 2014 (UTC) Actually, on rereading, that last sentence of mine is unfair. You are obviously not saying you cannot see it, just that you can not be sure that the dragon is exactly the same form as- well, whatever. I apologise for the last sentence, but refer you to the first paragraph of my answer. [[User:Ceiniog|Ceiniog]] ([[User talk:Ceiniog|talk]]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned"> — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 00:46, 2 October 2014 (UTC)</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> In fact, I may have fallen foul of not assuming "good faith", if that is the term? I apologise further for the tone of my answering text! But if you could read the facts in it rather than the rather confrontational tone, I would be obliged. Thank you for your interest on this subject! 00:55, 2 October 2014 (UTC)[[User:Ceiniog|Ceiniog]] ([[User talk:Ceiniog|talk]]) So, just to establish in a better way than I did above the point I am making! The Welsh flag consisting of a red dragon on a white and green background was used by the Welsh people as the Welsh flag long before 1959. Ok, "how long before?" I have no idea! But the deleted text said that it was "inaccurate" and "anachronistic" in 1890. As the flag (red dragon on white and green background) was used by Welsh people as the Welsh flag before 1959, it us up to someone who wants the text to stand to prove that it is "anachronistic". If the form of the red dragon was less uniform as you go back in in time (I would guess this is correct!) this still does not mean that any form of the Welsh flag is "anachronistic". The form seems to have gone from "many different forms" to "one form", rather than from "one form" to " another form" if you see what I mean. So the dragons tail seems to gave gone from sometimes pointing down and sometimes pointing up to always pointing up. And the 1959 date seems to be a bit of an irrelevance in the way the people of Wales use the flag, (but that is a debate for a different issue concerning the flag!) This does not mean if a Welsh flag was used in 1890, it would not have had a dragon resembling the ones today in all such points. (Not that there are many such points!) Therefore, I believe the text I deleted should stay deleted unless someone can link to evidence as to why the use of some form of a red dragon on a white and green background as a Welsh flag by a group of Welsh people would be anachronistic in 1890. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ceiniog|Ceiniog]] ([[User talk:Ceiniog|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ceiniog|contribs]]) 01:34, 2 October 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> == External links modified == Hello fellow Wikipedians, I have just modified 2 external links on [[Flag of Wales]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=803353278 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100611213215/http://fotw.net/flags/gb-wales.html to http://www.fotw.net/flags/gb-wales.html *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080907195629/http://www.lgbtcymruhelpline.org.uk/8welshflag.htm to http://www.lgbtcymruhelpline.org.uk/8welshflag.htm When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. {{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}} Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 00:35, 2 October 2017 (UTC) == External links modified == Hello fellow Wikipedians, I have just modified one external link on [[Flag of Wales]]. Please take a moment to review [[special:diff/814967296|my edit]]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100405072446/http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/showbiz/article-23543895-katherine-jenkins-threatens-to-spill-out-of-dress-on-stage-as-boyfriend-gethin-jones-looks-on.do to http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/showbiz/article-23543895-katherine-jenkins-threatens-to-spill-out-of-dress-on-stage-as-boyfriend-gethin-jones-looks-on.do When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. {{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}} Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 23:12, 11 December 2017 (UTC) == A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion == The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: * [[commons:File:Y Draig Aur Owain Glyndŵr.jpg|Y Draig Aur Owain Glyndŵr.jpg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2019-07-09T17:37:21.604790 | Y Draig Aur Owain Glyndŵr.jpg --> Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Y Draig Aur Owain Glyndŵr.jpg|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 17:37, 9 July 2019 (UTC) == Heraldic penis? == There is currently a petition going to the Senedd about whether the flag should have a penis which has attracted some national news attention ([https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9932657/Hilarious-campaigners-demand-famous-red-dragon-given-permanent-penis-Welsh-flags.html Daily Mail]; [https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1483179/Wales-news-Welsh-flag-dragon-penis-petition-GB-News-Colin-Brazier-latest-today-VN Express]). The depiction of the flag on this page currently has a penis, but this doesn't appear to be normative. Should the image be neutered to reflect this?'