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'{{Talk header|search=yes|archive_age=30|archive_bot=Lowercase sigmabot III}} {{Vital article|level=4|topic=People|class=GA}} {{ArticleHistory |action1=GAN |action1date=13 October 2006 |action1link=Talk:Pelé#GA passed |action1result=listed |action1oldid=81238352 |action2=PR |action2date=15:49, 28 January 2007 |action2link=Wikipedia:Peer review/Pelé/archive1 |action2result=reviewed |action2oldid=103852577 |action3=GAR |action3date=19:16, 28 May 2008 (UTC) |action3link=Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Pelé/1 |action3result=delisted |action3oldid=214536186 |action4=PR |action4date=18:36, 28 December 2015 (UTC) |action4link=Wikipedia:Peer review/Pelé/archive2 |action4result=reviewed |action4oldid=705508424 |action5=GAN |action5date=12:45, 18 November 2016 (UTC) |action5link=Talk:Pelé/GA1 |action5result=failed |action5oldid= |action6=GAN |action6date=23:41, 30 July 2017 (UTC) |action6link=Talk:Pelé/GA2 |action6result=passed |action6oldid= |topic=Sports and recreation |currentstatus=GA }} {{WikiProject banner shell|blp=yes|1= {{WikiProject Biography|class=GA|living=yes|sports-work-group=yes|sports-priority=top|core=yes|listas=Pele}} {{WikiProject Brazil|class=GA|importance=top|sports=yes}} {{WikiProject Football|class=GA|importance=High|USA=yes|Brazil=yes}} }} {{Press | subject = article | author = Deborah Ross | title = Contains nothing you couldn’t get from Wikipedia or YouTube: Netflix’s Pelé reviewed | org = [[The Spectator]] | url = https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/contains-nothing-you-couldnt-get-from-wikipedia-or-youtube-netflixs-pele-reviewed | date = 2021-02-27 | quote = The grapefruit, the stuffed sock, are just the kind of vivid details you want, but I read about those on Wikipedia. | archiveurl = | archivedate = | accessdate = 2021-02-28 }} {{todo|collapsed=yes}} {{OnThisDay|date1=2004-10-01|oldid1=6297937|date2=2005-10-01|oldid2=24515704|date3=2006-10-01|oldid3=78615955|date4=2007-11-19|oldid4=172590544|date5=2008-11-19|oldid5=252609952|date6=2009-11-19|oldid6=326742975|date7=2010-11-19|oldid7=396260836|date8=2012-11-19|oldid8=523884378|date9=2014-11-19|oldid9=634610743|date10=2016-11-19|oldid10=750438290|date11=2017-11-19|oldid11=810887483|date12=2019-11-19|oldid12=926969748|date13=2021-11-19|oldid13=1056002773|date14=2022-11-19|oldid14=1122819914}} {{Annual readership}} {{archive box| *[[Talk:Pelé/Archive 1]]: start-August 2006, not including the debate regarding Pele's goal-scoring record *[[Talk:Pelé/Archive - Statistics]]: Everything related to the debate over how many goals Pelé scored, but that is no longer needed. }} {{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn |target=Talk:Pelé/Archive index |mask1=Talk:Pelé/Archive <#> |mask2=Talk:Pelé/Archive - Statistics |leading_zeros=0 |template=Talk:Pelé/Archive index template |indexhere=yes}} {{User:MiszaBot/config |archiveheader = {{aan}} |maxarchivesize = 200K |counter = 2 |minthreadsleft = 10 |minthreadstoarchive = 1 |algo = old(30d) |archive = Talk:Pelé/Archive %(counter)d }} == The other 3 playmakers == In the 1970 team, there was Gerson as main playmaker or deep-lying playmaker, then Clodoaldo his partner in the double pivot who was used as an improvised defensive midfielder unless/until Gerson was man-marked (or not playing) and they'd swap, and then Rivelino who was converted into a left winger. So you had: +++++++++ Tostao +++++++++++++++++ ++ Rivelino - Pele - Jairzinho +++ ++++++ Gerson - Clodoaldo ++++++++++ During this time Pele increased the amount of people coming to New York Cosmos games. The average amount of people coming to these games where about 20,000 people. Also, Pele used his popularity to promote soccer in the US. This brought more hope and interest for the game of soccer, and was the start of its revolution. The revolution continued to grow as Pele played for the Cosmos, but when he left the popularity started to die down. Though the popularity of soccer started to go down, Pele still inspired people to love the game of soccer, which was an improvement. Without Pele coming to the US, soccer may not be where it is today.<ref name=Hillstorm>{{cite book|last=Hillstorm|first=Laurie|title=Pele Soccer Superstar|year=2008|publisher=Gale Cengage Learning|location=Detroit}}</ref> {{reflist-talk}} == Senior apps/goals in the Infobox == Hey, guys, I missed the original discussion, but, If I may, I'd like to add some points.</br> I see that the numbers in the Infobox consider all the domestic competitions simultaneously -- but shouldn't it concern only ''the'' (main) domestic league of each year?</br> Torneio Rio-SP, for instance, was never the main competition. Sometimes state league results would even be counted in the Rio-SP table. Besides, more often than not teams would avoid using 1st team players in some matches due to its smaller importance in comparison to the state leagues. Another point is that the last Taça Brasil took place in 1968, which made state leagues lose much of their relevance in the national scenario from 1969 on (thus no longer the main domestic leagues) since they were qualifiers for Taça Brasil.</br> For those reasons, I believe it would be fair to use numbers from Campeonato Paulista only until 1968 -- plus all the numbers from national competitions (Taça Brasil + Torneio Roberto Gomes Pedrosa/Taça de Prata + Série A), which would add up 477 apps and 508 goals. Any thoughts? —<i>[[User:Lesfer|Lesfer]]</i> ^{<small>[[User talk:Lesfer|(t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Lesfer|c]]/[[Special:Emailuser/Lesfer|@)]]</small>} 12:49, 19 September 2018 (THIS IS CONSIDER FOR GREAT PLAYER PELE == FIFA Games == Pelé is known as an icon in the football game FIFA 22 [realesed 1 October 2021] with an ovr of 95, making him the best player. He has appeared in most FIFA games prior. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Jacklovesliverpool|Jacklovesliverpool]] ([[User talk:Jacklovesliverpool#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jacklovesliverpool|contribs]]) 22:56, 14 October 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> == Semi-protected edit request on 19 February 2021 == {{edit semi-protected|Pelé|answered=yes}} Website information is incorrect or has been compromised www.pele.com has been redirected to https://adamriveravo.com Also pele10.com is redirected to an online bookstore. Both websites need to be removed. I was not able to find an active website for the history athlete. [[User:Shawna-alala|Shawna-alala]] ([[User talk:Shawna-alala|talk]]) 21:09, 19 February 2021 (UTC) : {{done}}. pele10.com does not seem to be in the article. [[User:Ganbaruby|<span style="color:#960596">◢</span> <b><i style="background-color:#F7E3F7; color:#960596"> Ganbaruby! </i></b>]] <small>([[User talk:Ganbaruby|Say hi!]])</small> 00:23, 20 February 2021 (UTC) == PELE STATS == There are two international statistic sources, RSSSF and IFFHS, the second recognised by FIFA. ALL other sources are unofficial (including the Santos FC archive) except FIFA but FIFA has no recognised any number of officials for Pele (only the total of 1,281). The number of goals of Pele should be from any of those two sources and the same should be for every player (not always possible) . The choise is on wikipedia. Especially for Pele the numbers are two : RSSSF 775, IFFHS 765. The number 757 is an experimental number and not appropriate for wikipedia. And that's the way wikipedia should work : not based on media or anything someone can found in the web, especially for stats. The difference is one : RSSSF includes all the career goals, IFFHS only the highest level. This is according to their definitions. But "goals at the highest level" ARE NOT recognised as "type" of goals. FIFA (the highest authority of the sport) recognise OFFICIAL GAMES and FRIENDLY GAMES (there are also unofficial friendlies, called "training games" but they are out of any account). This "categorization" is followed in whatever I write in el.wikipedia and can be found in proper way in the list of "Players with 500 goals or more" of el. wikipedia. I hope that I assisted in understanding how football statistics work. [[User:Γεώργιος Τερζής 2|Γεώργιος Τερζής 2]] ([[User talk:Γεώργιος Τερζής 2|talk]]) 15:11, 6 March 2021 (UTC) As nobody answered it is my duty to re-change your EXRERIMEMNTAL STATS. IF YOU DON'T KNOW, I KNOW. [[User:Γεώργιος Τερζής 2|Γεώργιος Τερζής 2]] ([[User talk:Γεώργιος Τερζής 2|talk]]) 23:24, 22 May 2021 (UTC) == Pele in Santo Domingo in 1976 == In 1976 Pele didn't play against Violet atletic club in Santo Domingo.. The game was in Port au Prince, Haiti, Stade Syvio Cator. It was a promotion for Pepsi cola. It finished 2-1 for Violet Ac against New York Cosmos. Pele didn't score. I was there with my late father. [[Special:Contributions/173.59.20.217|173.59.20.217]] ([[User talk:173.59.20.217|talk]]) 22:49, 15 March 2021 (UTC) == Why the article does not emphasize that he is considered the 'de-facto' best player in history? == Wikipedia needs enciclopedic information, and Pelé is, by many, even the world's football most respected organization, FIFA, considered the best player in the known football history. One cannot be considered the best by all the people in the world, this is impossible. But we have enough information from history books, football experts and media considering him the best player in history, and this article does not emphasize it when the information is so clear. [[User:Marcus Diniz|Markweiser]] ([[User talk:Marcus Diniz|talk]]) 17:30, 18 May 2021 (UTC) I agree. Pele was voted the best athlete of the 20th century by the highest sport authority (IOC), best football players of 20th century by IFFHS, World Soccer, France Football etc. There's not even one OFFICIAL STATEMENT of any other to be the greatest. If someone has even one, I WANTED TO KNOW. [[User:Γεώργιος Τερζής 2|Γεώργιος Τερζής 2]] ([[User talk:Γεώργιος Τερζής 2|talk]]) 23:14, 22 May 2021 (UTC) :a simple google check reveals that both messi and maradona are way more often listed as the greatest ahead of pele, so it doesnt make sense to change it. we already have the statement of fifa labeling him the greatest so that should be enough [[User:FMSky|FMSky]] ([[User talk:FMSky|talk]]) 08:22, 19 July 2021 (UTC) * Because he is not. The opinions of those organizations cannot convert into fact. At the end of the day, stats will be the metric that matters the most in terms of measuring how great a player is in history and not how a certain organization views the player. From stats alone, Messi and Ronaldo are better than Pele. Also, just for the record, there are many articles saying Messi is the greatest player in football history. Also, I am sure whatever those organizations said about Pele was during a time before the era of Messi and Ronaldo. Times have changed, those recognitions given to Pele are now outdated. [[User:Ae245|Ae245]] ([[User talk:Ae245|talk]]) 09:00, 29 January 2022 (UTC) :{{ping|Ae245}} find a consensus first[[User:FMSky|FMSky]] ([[User talk:FMSky|talk]]) 16:59, 29 January 2022 (UTC) ::{{ping|FMSky}} the statement "labelled 'the greatest' by FIFA" is very inappropriate because of 7 reasons. One, it is biased and assumes that FIFA holds the highest and most trusted level of authority over the sport itself, when it does not or is disputed. Two, the provided source is no longer accessible and the archived version is smudgy. Three, even if you were to cite FIFA as a source, it would not be proper because FIFA is a primary source and by the principles of Wikipedia, secondary sources are required and not primary sources. Four, the source itself is questionable because it has written controversial and subjective information in the article such as scoring over 1200 goals in his career. His career goals reach not even 900. Five, the statement does not match anything written in the source. It says he is "the greatest", but the source does not say that. Instead it says "The greatest of them all" (all specifies something, just "the greatest" does not) in the title or "Player of the Century". Six, the manner in which the statement is phrased in the article is very vague. The greatest of what? Of all time? Of the last 50 years before the 21st century? Seven, it needs to be improved or removed to abide by the policies of this website. I understand your desire to protect this "Good" article, but for the betterment of it, such a misleading and vague statement is best removed. [[User:Ae245|Ae245]] ([[User talk:Ae245|talk]]) 13:58, 2 February 2022 (UTC) :::FIFA is the governing body of the sport. Attributing a quote to them is in similar vein to the National Basketball Association who label Michael Jordan “the greatest”. By attributing a quote you avoid subjectivity (ie. a personal viewpoint). [[User:Nampa DC|Nampa DC]] ([[User talk:Nampa DC|talk]]) 19:25, 3 February 2022 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Nampa DC}} the quote doesn't match the source so it is a fake quote. The source doesn't work because the page is inaccessible and there is no trace of it on the internet other than the archived version. This can be akin to FIFA retracting their statement on Pele. Also, the fact that it was posted in 2012, when Messi's career was just getting started. It is obviously an outdated statement, considering how nothing is definite and the viewpoints of people and organizations like FIFA can and will change over time. [[User:Ae245|Ae245]] ([[User talk:Ae245|talk]]) 15:33, 5 February 2022 (UTC) ::::Also, does this account (Hells Bells7) belong to either one of you? [[User:Ae245|Ae245]] ([[User talk:Ae245|talk]]) 15:39, 5 February 2022 (UTC) ::::: {{tq|One, it is biased and assumes that FIFA holds the highest and most trusted level of authority over the sport itself, when it does not or is disputed.}}. {{ping|Ae245}} I agree but "according to FIFA" is not the same what "Pele has been wiedly redgarded as very the greatest of all time thank to FIFA", so current form is OK. If so short sentence is controversial then why you not remove from infobo information that Messi has the most [[FIFA Ballon d'Or]] (mentioning trivial infos about records of Golden Ball at infobox in the lead is ridiculous as suggests that anyone ever consider that award seriously, follow that rivalry for golden ball, or that Cristiano and Messi respetivelly oul have five times more such individual awards than Cruyff if they not play at the same era, even before 2016 when none of them won national title they were couple times mbest player of the year according to FIFA, why not remove table with records per [[WP:NOTSTATS]] and as FIFA is not trusted authority or source?). [[User:Dawid2009|Dawid2009]] ([[User talk:Dawid2009|talk]]) 18:28, 5 February 2022 (UTC) :::::: {{ping|Dawid2009}} I am not saying the phrasing is worded non-neutrally, but it's a bit vague to just say "Greatest" and especially citing a source from over a decade ago making it obsolete too. Also, I didn't say FIFA is not noteworthy but in instances like this where prose is written in the very top of the article, I think it is better to not write something that may be considered controversial as there may be many people to disagree with the view, even if it's written in the form of a quote attributing to an organization. I have also mentioned how the source is problematic but no one seems to be interested in rectifying it, maybe because these editors on here are fans of Pele and may prefer to write what is favourable to him or what, I don't know. [[User:Ae245|Ae245]] ([[User talk:Ae245|talk]]) 15:01, 6 February 2022 (UTC) ::::::: The wording looks fine. It’s not a definitive statement, merely the view of FIFA. Had it said he was ''de facto'' the best (as the original editor proposed) then that would be an issue. His achievements in the game are extraordinary, which is reflected in the esteem with which he is held, therefore I don’t see why it shouldn’t also be reflected here. [[User:Emmett SP|Emmett SP]] ([[User talk:Emmett SP|talk]]) 13:25, 8 February 2022 (UTC) == Semi-protected edit request on 14 October 2021 == {{edit semi-protected|Pelé|answered=yes}} I would like to edit this source because I would like to talk about him as an icon in FIFA 22 [[User:Jacklovesliverpool|Jacklovesliverpool]] ([[User talk:Jacklovesliverpool|talk]]) 22:52, 14 October 2021 (UTC) :[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 22:55, 14 October 2021 (UTC) == Surname. == Hi {{ping|Ciro Lyndo}} - I noticed your edit here[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Pel%C3%A9&diff=1055554360&oldid=1055144315]. I thought that "do" was part of the surname, as it appears to be similar to other prefixes found in surnames in other languages, I.E - "De la" in Spanish (like de la Cruz), "Del" found in Spanish and Italian surnames (like Del Toro or Del Vecchio), the "De" or "Du" in French (De La Rue), etc. I'm not a native speaker of Portuguese, but it's my understanding that "do" means "of the"? [[User:Clear Looking Glass|Clear Looking Glass]] ([[User talk:Clear Looking Glass|talk]]) 03:22, 18 November 2021 (UTC) "Do" means literally "of the", and isn't a part of the surname. The majority of famous Brazilians remove the "do", "da", "dos" from their stage name. "Da" means "of the" but from surnames which A is the last word, like Silva. "Dos" means "from them", and it's from surnames ended with S, like Santos. [[User:Ciro Lyndo|Ciro Lyndo]] ([[User talk:Ciro Lyndo|talk]]) 12:38, 25 November 2021 (UTC) :{{ping|Ciro Lyndo}} - Interesting. So, for Portuguese-speakers, or at least Brazilians, the prefixes such as "do" or "da" are different from say, Spanish-language surnames? It's not like say, [[Benicio del Toro]] or [[Hernando de Soto (economist)|Hernando de Soto]], where the "del" or "de" (also meaning "of the" or "of") are part of their surnames (AFAIK)? [[User:Clear Looking Glass|Clear Looking Glass]] ([[User talk:Clear Looking Glass|talk]]) 20:17, 26 November 2021 (UTC) I really don't know so much about Spanish surnames. But, Brazilians with Spanish surnames didn't count the "del" as part of their surnames. The same occurs with Brazilians with German surnames, they don't count the "von" as part of the surname. [[User:Ciro Lyndo|Ciro Lyndo]] ([[User talk:Ciro Lyndo|talk]]) 01:45, 3 December 2021 (UTC) == Semi-protected edit request on 15 August 2022 == {{edit semi-protected|Pelé|answered=yes}} Grammar error [[Special:Contributions/2001:BB6:7B31:7300:50E3:D3A6:5308:F151|2001:BB6:7B31:7300:50E3:D3A6:5308:F151]] ([[User talk:2001:BB6:7B31:7300:50E3:D3A6:5308:F151|talk]]) 14:19, 15 August 2022 (UTC) :[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a [[WP:EDITXY|"change X to Y" format]] and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:MadGuy7023|MadGuy7023]] ([[User talk:MadGuy7023|talk]]) 14:26, 15 August 2022 (UTC) == Semi-protected edit request on 4 December 2022 == {{edit semi-protected|Pelé|answered=no}} {{subst:trim|1= <!-- State UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes below this line, preferably in a "change X to Y" format. Other editors need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests will be declined. --> <!-- Write your request ABOVE this line and do not remove the tildes and curly brackets below. --> }} ~~~~'