Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies

WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies

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Marriage Equality Case in India

I've created a new article Supriyo v. Union of India, which is the case on marriage rights for Gay, lebsian, transgender and non-binary people in India. As the consolidated case is challenging the Indian Marriage Laws for discriminating on grounds of both sexual orientation and gender identity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki6995 (talk • contribs) 11:15, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Garrett Glaser

Someone who might be Garrett Glaser is looking for assistance at WP:HD#How do I source the content below? and I'm wondering if anyone from this WikiProject would mind trying to help them out. I left some general information on their user talk page, but perhaps someone might be able to add to that. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:57, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments

Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class= parameter to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:23, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Clarifying question about interpretation of guidelines around transition

Back in November I made some edits regarding Josie Totah, namely updating her name on some credits prior to when she publicly came out. (I meant to raise this question closer to when this occurred, but my December and January in real life were so hectic that I forgot all about it and was reminded today.) A handful of these edits stuck, but a handful were reverted with the rationale that she was notable under the other name and it was how she was credited, and when I discussed it with the person who reverted it, this was the conversation about it. I'm not looking to, like, prove anything or edit war or bring these edits back up myself (my real life is still feeling the effects from what made December and January so hectic; even if I had the energy to I simply don't have the time), but I wanted to raise the question here to improve my own understanding: Totah was privately out to her family prior to acting, but she was initially closeted when it came to acting roles (i.e. presenting as a boy, doing boy roles); however, it may be that she chose a stage name she was comfortable with at that time which was not her given name. However, now that she's publicly out, she's credited as Josie consistently. My understanding prior to those edits in November was that her prior stage name might count as a deadname, but now I'm just confused so I wanted to ask for clarification from people who might know their way around these guidelines more than I do? Is the rationale that she was privately out so the previously credited name doesn't "count" as a deadname correct and should I take that into account going forward? Just looking for a second opinion here. - Purplewowies (talk) 22:17, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

It looks to me like you're dealing with a situation that doesn't really need to be faced, because looking at a few quick examples (such as the filmography chart for Holly Robinson Peete and the section of Muhammad Ali on his acting), it seems we don't generally specify the "credited as" information for actors who changed their name during their career. That's an IMDb thing, not so much a Wikipedia thing. We definitely shouldn't be making special effort of that sort just because the name change goes with a gender identification, which is the main place where we discourage referring to an old name more than needed. --Nat Gertler (talk) 01:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

At first I wasn't completely clearly understanding your phrasing yesterday (I blame pulling a back muscle), but rereading it today it makes sense. Thanks! - Purplewowies (talk) 00:30, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Drag panic

What happened to the page, drag panic? Was it deleted? — JuanGLP (talk + contribs) 12:19, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

It looks like it was moved to a draft: Draft:Drag panic Historyday01 (talk) 12:30, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

I've moved the article back into main space. I think the page should be improved and issues can be discussed on the talk page. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:27, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Ohhh, I thought someone deleted the page with no reason. — JuanGLP (talk + contribs) 14:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! I was just in the process of requesting that. I don't think it meets the criteria for draftification, especially since 2022 drag performance protests was merged there, which is outside the 90-day time limit mentioned at WP:DRAFTIFY.--Trystan (talk) 14:36, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree, hence why I moved the page back. Onel5969 can discuss on the talk page, if preferred. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:37, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

List of lesbian bars

Project members might be interested in the newly created List of lesbian bars. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:42, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

List of LGBT characters in The Simpsons

I just created List of LGBT characters in The Simpsons. I don't edit much on LGBT topics, so I figure it might be a good idea to post it here. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 22:23, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Gene Robinson

Gene Robinson has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 19:45, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Neopronouns after name

The style manual says neopronouns "should usually be mentioned" but otherwise mandates the singular 'they'. This sucks. If there are reliable sources specifying any explicit pronoun usage, they/them or neopronouns or otherwise, at the very least these pronouns should be mentioned immediately after their name. A recent Neopronouns RfC recommends more discussion about whether to include it as a footnote, in prose, or case by case. I say in cases with any such discussion, the first line should be formatted like this:

Maia Kobabe (/ˈmaɪə koʊˌbeɪb/, born 1989, pronouns e/em/eir) is an American cartoonist and author.

Right now it doesn't even mention e/em/eir in the body of the Maia Kobabe article, it says "Spivak pronouns" as if that's clearer. You have to dig through the Spivak article or other citations to even be exposed to eir most common way of being referred to.

People should be able to easily learn and talk about what they find in an encyclopedia. Hiding neopronouns in obscured citation (or replacing with they/them for that matter) only further mysticizes neopronouns, affirming to cis folks it's "too hard" to figure out.

tl;dr I'm relatively new here -- how do we change this? Do we assemble LGBT folks to make a new thread and vocally support prominent in-line pronouns? Eferwalt (talk) 01:34, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't have a complete answer here but I really don't want us to be saying what people's pronouns are before we say what they are notable for. Obviously we need to explain them before we start using them but that shouldn't be in the first sentence. Beyond that, my thoughts are less clear. There are a portion of readers for whom even they/them pronouns are too spicy, and there is probably no helping them, but we do need to keep the rest of the readers in mind. We have to find a way to combine using the correct pronouns with keeping the articles readable for people who are unfamiliar with them. We don't want the pronouns to be prominent, we want them to be read as normal. We don't want to scare readers away either from the articles or the subjects of the articles. We want to bring them along. Unfortunately, I don't have a specific suggestion for doing that beyond thinking that it might be best to use personal pronouns sparingly in these cases. DanielRigal (talk) 02:26, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

What I'm currently used to seeing is something like

Maia Kobabe (/ˈmaɪə koʊˌbeɪb/, born 1989[1]), is an American cartoonist and author. Their[a] graphic nonfiction has features in several publications and their first book Gender Queer: A Memoir was published in 2019.

Given the MOS Talk debate you link to, I think it would be reasonable to include a self-reference in a footnote:

a: Kobabe uses Spivak neopronouns e/em/eir, but Wikipedia policy is currently to avoid potentially unfamiliar neopronouns in favor of singular they.

I don't think we're likely to get an MOS change that's more respectful to people using neopronouns in the immediate future, given the most recent consensus is only 6 months old. That said, one of the things I've been hoping to do as a part of the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group is to run an editing campaign to improve how we cover trans, non-binary and gender non-confirming biography subjects — and how we cover the current moral panic about trans, enby and GNC people — so we might be able to come to a newer consensus then? — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk; please {{ping}} me in replies) 06:44, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

@Eferwalt @OwenBlacker I saw this about neopronouns and found it to be a very strange policy, particularly for historical figures. For example, Leslie Feinberg uses she/her in the article "for consistency" but this is spoon feeding the assumed cis reader who finds ze/hir to be "too confusing." They/them as the default "non-binary pronoun" is relatively recent. There's also lack of focus on an assumed trans reader who might access an article and find it hurtful. Sure, maybe a random cis reader might feel a teeny tiny bit less confused by they rather than ey, but should that trump Maia Kobabe's own feelings on the issue? Computer-ergonomics (talk) 20:50, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

I can definitely understand your perspective but, as well as what I wrote above about not-now-but-maybe-soon, I think it's also worth bearing in mind that a significant quantity of readers of the English Wikipedia are likely to be non-native speakers, so I'm generally more conservative in article-space here than in my own writing. Given we currently have a policy here that is broadly respecting of trans, enby and GNC identities, I'm not sure it's a very high priority to change compared with other Wikipedia language-editions where non-binary biography subjects are forcibly gendered, for example.

I am definitely happy to be persuaded otherwise — and it's something the User Group is going to work on in the medium-term future, with the intention to facilitate a wider conversation and informed discussion about. I can't see anything specific on the provisional schedule for Queering Wikipedia 2023, but I am sure all of us at the User Group would definitely welcome input from you all (Computer-ergonomics, Eferwalt and DanielRigal) on this. — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk; please {{ping}} me in replies) 17:23, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Conversion Therapy Information

I noticed that the LGBT rights in the United States page didn't have any sources for the subsection on gay conversion therapy under the larger section for medical discrimination. This seems to be the only part of the article which needs credible citations. I was wondering if there was any reason for this or if anyone had the expertise to solve this problem? Rylee Schermerhorn (talk) 00:17, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

friend of fifty years

At Draft:Betty Cronin, a woman who never married but according to her obit had a friend of fifty years, an Irene Milewski, who was the only survivor named in the obit. OR sleuthing shows they lived together. I've included this friendship in her personal life. Is that the right choice? She would have been ~85 when she could have married, and it just feels kind of wrong not to mention this relationship, but obviously it's a bit coy for modern readers. Valereee (talk) 11:09, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

2023 London Marathon has an RFC

2023 London Marathon has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. --Mika1h (talk) 15:55, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Is that actually an RfC? It doesn't have an RfC header on it. DanielRigal (talk) 17:25, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

It gets worse, so much worse. We now have:

• Glenique Frank
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Glenique Frank
• A redirect from her deadname to the article, which has already been speedily deleted

--DanielRigal (talk) 15:16, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Michael Denneny

Michael Denneny, a major figure in gay literature has died. Thriley (talk) 05:34, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I've significantly expanded the stub for this. If anyone can find a usable picture of him that would be great. —DIYeditor (talk) 08:35, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Increasing milestone goals?

Hi folx! Last month I posted a question on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies/progression about increasing milestone goals. Please see and reply if interested. Thank you! –Vipz (talk) 19:23, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Article in need of reassessment

Hello all,

I tagged the article John Mateer (musician)’s talk page about two months ago requesting a reassessment of it. Basically it had be given a “Start” grade, but the article has since been expanded upon and I was wondering how to go about tagging articles for reassessment when they have already been assessed before. Thanks! 4theloveofallthings (talk) 21:16, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

RFC on MOS:GENDERID and the deadnames of deceased trans and nonbinary persons

Hello! Over at the village pump, there's an RFC on MOS:GEDNERID addressing the deadnames of deceased trans and nonbinary persons. Thanks everybody--Jerome Frank Disciple 18:54, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Invitation to this year's Queering Wikipedia conference!

Hi, folks! On behalf of the Wikimedia LGBT+ user group, I'm posting this invitation to invite all of you to join us for this year's Queering Wikipedia conference on May 12, 14 and 17!

Come join us as we bring together people from all over to discuss how we can make our projects a safer and more welcoming place for LGBTQ+ Wikimedians and those who may want to join in the future. You can register for the conference here, and our schedule is available here. We also have in-person events for those who may be interested in attending in their local area.

We look forward to seeing you all at the conference, and thank you! --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 19:50, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

LP (singer)

There is a discussion at the BLP Noticeboards about LP (singer) that members of the project may want to participate in.[1] Morbidthoughts (talk) 22:15, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Need eyes on List of transgender people

There is a dispute, which I am involved in, over on List of transgender people and it's Talk page (section: Talk:List of transgender people#Non-binary = Transgender?). Non-binary people are being removed from the list. I would welcome some more eyes and opinions on this. DanielRigal (talk) 03:20, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Taylor Parsons

This Australian rock climbing LGBT+ BLP is on my watchlist (I focus on climbing articles) and I notice that a new editor - who I think is the subject - has edited the BLP to take out all reference to their past name (they used to be quite a notable rock climber pre their transition). What is the right thing to do here - their notability is mostly attached to their past name, however, obviously I don't want to revert these edits if it is not appropriate in this context. What is the right thing to do? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:12, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

The standard seems to be that, when and only when the person was famous before transition, it is acceptable to make a note in the lede paragraphs to the dead name, and then use the new name throughout the article. For references, the given title should always be used. Exceptions should be made judiciously, such as when the person received awards under their dead name and is likely to be listed in databases and other materials under that name. I would hold up the article for Alexander James Adams as an example. TechBear | Talk | Contributions 17:27, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Correct; see MOS:GENDERID for more details. Funcrunch (talk) 19:53, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

So am I right in saying that we should restore her deadname, as that is what she was notable for (per Alexander James Adams and MOS:GENDERID), somewhere in the lede, and in bold (but not as the initial name)? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 21:47, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Sophie (musician)#Birth name

There's a discussion at this article talk that may be of interest to this project. Valereee (talk) 17:12, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

WikiProject Drag?

If I were to create WikiProject Drag, would you join? I should note, Wikipedia has WikiProject Drag Race, but this project seeks to improve coverage of one specific drag franchise. WikiProject Drag would apply to a much larger collection of entries.

I considered starting a task force of WikiProject LGBT studies dedicated to drag, but Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Drag task force is a lot less catchy than Wikipedia:WikiProject Drag. I don't want to start yet another project page if there's limited activity and interest, so I'll get the ball rolling if ten people indicate interest in joining.

If not, all good. Thanks! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:04, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

I did mention it before on WP:Drag Race, of "why not represent other franchises?" or create a WikiProject Drag; though I will be interested in joining! ☺️ — JuanGLP (talk + contribs) 00:47, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Mattea Roach#they/them pronouns (2023)

A discussion is ongoing here that may be of interest to this project. – dudhhr ^talk _contribs (he/they) 02:55, 11 May 2023 (UTC)