Talk:"Yo mama" joke

Semi-protected edit request on 3 September 2022

Yo mama should be of no offense to anybody since it is a simple joke. 68.111.140.72 (talk) 23:34, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. MadGuy7023 (talk) 00:00, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

"VA NIQUER TA MAIRE"

The French graffiti pictured is actually a pun (or a spelling mistake) and reads "go fuck your mayor", not "go fuck your mother". Is it worth editing the caption to point this out? Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 14:19, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

I suggest moving this

"Maternal insult" surely isn't WP:COMMONNAME. I think "Your mom" joke would be a better title, per precedent like dick joke. (Actually, looking at the sources, "yo momma" joke and the like seem to be common, so maybe that.)

I will boldly move this in a week if there is no opposition. CharredShorthand (talk) 08:37, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Support Yeah, "Yo mamma" joke seems like a way more common way of referring to it! Someone-123-321 (talk) 02:14, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

But that’s only one kind of a maternal insult…the only body section of this article is full of historical kinds of maternal insults which are not in the same format. Umimmak (talk) 04:24, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

@Umimmak I think one can justifiably interpret "yo mama" joke to be fairly broad, not only jokes in the "yo mama so x she x" format. As per one of the article's sources, [1].

But have you any suggestions for improvements? I just think "maternal insult" is quite ridiculous and obscure. CharredShorthand (talk) 04:34, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Also, I moved it after seeing the first "support", which now I think perhaps I ought not to have - but we can move it again if necessary. CharredShorthand (talk) 04:35, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Well like I said “yo mama” is specific to the dozens, or at the very least the contemporary anglosphere. I think part of this will depend on what the sources say/cover; if there’s enough specifically about the format “yo mama”, then that can be its own article with a WP:SUMMARY in a larger article about maternal insults, but again as right now the article is half about other formats for this sort of insult. Umimmak (talk) 06:12, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

My point is that "yo mama joke" can encapsulate insults about mothers that do not actually have the specific phrase "yo mama", and that this is significantly better than titling the article "maternal insult" - a phrase which barely any sources use, and which I suspect got its primary origin from Wikipedia when some editor moved this page from "Mother insult" to "Maternal insult" on grammatical grounds.

"Maternal insult" is simply not the WP:COMMONNAME. CharredShorthand (talk) 08:45, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

I agree with this change, or a change in general. "Maternal Insult" suggests they're only insults. Whereas We're seeing more "compliment" jokes in today's era; yo mama so nice, yo mama so strong, yo mama so smart etc. Even products like Alexa will reply with a "yo mama so nice" joke if you ask the device to give you a "yo mama joke". ZackJames90 (talk) 04:40, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 2 February 2023

"Yo mama" joke → Maternal insult – No evidence that this is the WP:COMMONNAME. Furthermore, even if it was, surely "mum", "mom" or "mother" would be more common than "mama". It could also be "ur" or "your", rather than "yo". Even so, "Yo mama" jokes are only one part of it; for example, Shakespeare's wordplay is certainly not a simple "yo mama" joke. This page was moved without a clear consensus, done in a bold edit, and without a proper RM. I suggest we have a discussion where consensus can be properly gained. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 17:18, 2 February 2023 (UTC) — Relisting.  ASUKITE 19:16, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

• @CharredShorthand: Pinging the user who moved this and "proposed" the move above. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 17:22, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

'Yo Mama' and other terms similar to it already existed as redirects to this article. Not only is the modern format included, but the historical context is included as well. 'Maternal Insult' was already a title that was far more encyclopedic and successfully encompassed the topic of the article itself. Not sure why we're having this talk; the page title was already very good. ~GoatLordServant^(Talk) 19:08, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

• Good call to list it properly so we can gain consensus. "Maternal insult" seemed like a pretty unnatural title. The page was originally called "Mother insult"; someone moved it to maternal insult years ago for grammar reasons. Few non-WP sources I could find from an online search use the term, and even those which do could well have copied us, a kind of WP:citogenesis.

I do acknowledge however that some people have expressed a view that "yo mama" refers to a narrow subset of the things the article is about. I think it's actually fairly broad per the article's sources, eg. [2], but let's see and get consensus. CharredShorthand.talk; 01:04, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. There isn't a great name for the phenomenon, it's just "yo mama." The idea of maternal insults in general is probably not an encyclopedic topic as being too vague in the same way that "nice mother" or "joke about stoves" aren't really encyclopedic topics, just valid English phrases. SnowFire (talk) 23:23, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

  So your argument is that we can never have a good title for this article, so we shouldn't even attempt to better it? And then you say that this article is not suitable for inclusion. Why does this make ""Yo mama" joke" a better title than "Maternal insult"? Surely, if you want things to be more encyclopaedic, changing the title to "Maternal insult" (when it should never have been moved without a proper RM in the first place) is a good place to start. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 23:34, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

  That isn't what I was saying. Ignore the article title for a moment: I'm saying that the topic of "yo mama" jokes is encyclopedic (barely) while the topic of "maternal insults" in general is not. I'm certainly open to other suggestions for the title of an article on "yo mama" et al., but "Maternal insult" seems to be suggesting an overly broad scope for the article. As for Shakespeare, I think it's probably OR-y to consider his comment a "yo mama" joke at all - I think it should be removed unless it has a reference connecting it to the specific phenomenon. (Plus, "yo mama" is normally a joke, i.e. friends might do it among themselves, while "maternal insult" and the alleged Shakespeare example seems to include 'serious' insults.) Lots of people make jokes or insults involving mothers, that's not necessarily interesting in the same way that insults about any topic aren't necessarily encyclopedic. SnowFire (talk) 05:22, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

  It's not "OR-y" to put it in the article because it is a maternal insult. Changing this article's title to ""Yo mama" joke" is wrong because Shakespeare's joke is not a "yo mama" joke. The retitling has made the information in the article inaccurate, which is why it should never have been moved in the first place. If you want a "yo mama" joke article, then split this one, but don't unilaterally rename it to be inaccurate and misleading, and then try to get content removed from it because the title inaccurate and misleading. The fact is, it was moved without an RM, with no clear consensus and no clear reasoning. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 12:26, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

  Note regarding proper requested moves: I would have started one had I fully understood their significance at the time. Not doing so was an error on my part.

  I don't think "maternal insult" is a fundamentally more encyclopedic title. Why do you think so? Perhaps the formality? I'm not sure that's valid; it feels euphemistic almost. And like I said, certainly not WP:COMMONNAME. CharredShorthand.talk; 05:55, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

  How is it euphemistic? ""Yo mama" joke" is the wrong title because this article covers much more than "yo mama" jokes, e.g. the insults by Shakespeare and to Andrew Jackson. It covers all of those, not only just yo mama jokes. There is no common name for these things because it's a phenomenon, not something that has a defined title. Using "Maternal insult" covers everything pretty well. It is concise, precise, and consistent. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 12:33, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

• While "maternal insult" is the most stable title (thank you, User:Nardog/MoveHistory), it does lead one to wonder if the article is about insults from a mother or made about a mother, especially for those unfamiliar with whichever English variations that use "maternal insult" commonly. Even more to the point, this is yet again one of those RM discussions that may also be a discussion of scope. Anyway, keep this article at "Yo mama" joke and redirect Maternal insult to Insult (medical) or Insult (disambiguation) per Google Scholar query. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 16:13, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Comedy has been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 19:15, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose "Maternal insult" feels clunky and is a term I have literally never seen anyone use, so it goes against WP:COMMONNAME. While the current title isn't perfect, it is at least recognizable. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:57, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - proposed title is not WP:NATURAL. -- Netoholic @ 14:02, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - too awkward; title makes it sound like the mother is doing the insulting. Walrasiad (talk) 14:39, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Weak oppose. Eh, I think it’s kind of comically formal but the serious reasons presented outweigh the mild amusement factor Dronebogus (talk) 08:15, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Oppose: same as above Thehistorianisaac (talk) 14:53, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. The suggested title seems off to me, and it is a phrase I've never seen anyone use before. I can see arguments against the current title, but it is much clearer than the suggested change in my opinion. Aoba47 (talk) 17:14, 17 February 2023 (UTC)