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I don't think this warrants its own section, but I'd definitely be open to "media reaction and public aftermath" section that devotes a paragraph to this. EytanMelech (talk) 22:44, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I tried removing it, but it came back. I support removing it. This could have happened in the vicinity of any press conference, after any event, and BLPCRIME advises against going heavy on allegations against ordinary people. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:06, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Its own article, if anywhere, though it really isn't encyclopedic. People get arrested for trespassing and disorderly conduct every day in every state. Most of the time, like this time, they're just Average Joe and sometimes, like this time, they get a day or two of passing mention/Internet fame. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:40, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
According to his bio he's an emmy-nominated, award winning journalist. The story of his arrest has been run in conjunction with the train derailing on every major news platform, but now this edit has been used on platforms like facebook to scrub any mention of the Ohio disaster if they too reference this arrest.
I'm not a wiki editor, but I think that this arrest drastically alters the perception of the incident, with the charges being dropped, and from the evidence available from the bodycam its clear that the arrest and the incident are connected, and I humbly ask that you return the section on the arrested journalist.
I'm not trying to gaslight you, but he doesn't have a bio. The closest thing here to Evan Lambert is List of The Boys characters. And he was briefly detained for refusing to leave a sidescrum, not for derailing a train. I therefore humbly decline your request. If you ever do become a Wikipedian, you'll gradually come to understand why WP:UNDUE and WP:BLPCRIME are more persuasive than your assertions in that regard. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:14, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
thank you, I learned a lot from reading from those links.
I am being honest with you when I posted the comment saying (paraphrased) “charges dropped” it was to show the events final conclusion. I don’t know Wikipedia well enough to confidently re-add a section; I was when surprised someone made it on the Wiki. Sroth0616 (talk) 02:32, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate your honesty. All I meant by the above comment is that I hope the IP isn't considering making some "final conclusion" in the form of a mass casualty event. There are better ways to get a point across. I guess that's now my advice for you and the IP (and anyone else who might be thinking of WP:BLP1Eing themself). Don't do it. Also, don't re-add the section. Named living people not even charged with a crime don't need the Internet even suggesting their guilt. Especially not in the context of a train derailment. If anyone here should later think this has to belong anywhere, think it belongs at his employer's article. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:31, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
After reviewing all of the discussion posts (on this topic) to date [02:40, 17 February 2023 (UTC)] on this thread I agree with your opinion. Sroth0616 (talk) 02:40, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have no idea when this "loop" was open or closed, but the only editor I remember restoring it at all is a Grand High Togneme Vicarus (a grandmaster editor, in plain English), so I'm sure he had his reasons. But that was back when this seemed like it might go somewhere, legally, and this is now. Unless it comes back, best to just forget about it. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:35, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
First, thank you for posting the section in question.
Second, after reading the section in question I wonder if it should be up however, acknowledge the journalist/reporter at the center of this doe not have a wiki page.
Third, as I may have said in prior comments (comments above) I felt it [the event] was worthy to be in the Wiki talk page; I posted about it for the greater good.
I support the ultimate decision made be the mods.; I am not a moderator ('mod.') nor claim to be, I am a Wiki user who tries to be helpful.
Violence would have made this more noteworthy than it appeared, though it still doesn't appear this was a violent arrest. The section didn't indicate his story was intended to be silenced, or even what his story was. Seems rather to be a simple case of briefly alleged disorderly conduct and trespassing, as the block below says, with no effect whatsoever on East Palestine. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:05, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Arrest of reporter for alleged disorderly conduct
On February 8, during a newscast in a gymnasium behind the press conference of Governor Mike DeWine, Evan Lambert, a reporter for NewsNation, was approached by two state troopers of the Ohio Highway Patrol and Major General John C. Harris Jr. of the Ohio Adjutant General's Department, who cautioned him about his loudness, leading to a confrontation. Several police intervened, as cell phones and body cameras recorded.[1][2]
Harris told police Lambert approached him aggressively and: "I instinctively put my hands on his chest to keep him from bumping into me, which I felt was inevitable if I had not protected myself." Lambert was asked to leave by a representative of the East Palestine schools. After refusing, he was taken from the gym and arrested.[3][4] He was charged with criminal trespass and disorderly conduct and released later in the day.[5][6] DeWine said Lambert "had the right to be reporting" and condemned obstruction of the press: "That certainly is wrong and it's not anything that I approve of. In fact, I vehemently disapprove of it."[7]
The Columbiana County prosecutor left the case to the attorney general of Ohio.[8] On February 15, the AG dismissed the charges, saying that there were insufficient grounds for the arrest of Lambert.[9][10][11][12]
A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.
What does this mean for all discussion prior to this time? Are they now void or do they still have meaning when talking about why the old title should be supported/opposed? RPI2026F1 (talk) 21:28, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, chemical disaster was an error on my end. So really, discussion only shifted from the first to the third title. Regardless, no, the arguments prior should not be void, as they in part led to the changing of the proposed title in the first place. And no one should be opposed to the proposed title changing again as the discussion continues. I see proposed titles as malleable, and should in the end move to whatever can be settled on — but my focus is more on changing it to something other than "train derailment". Whether the title says East Palestine or Ohio or both, I don't have a very strong opinion on, though I lean more towards simply Ohio to avoid confusion. TSwanyIRL (talk) 02:36, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Im just gonna say that I find any concerns about Palestine and EP unpersuasive. "east palestine" is not commonly used to refer to a region of the Middle East, there are numerous Palestines around the world, and viewers of this article won't be confused because they can quickly determine what nation.region this occurred in. using EP vs OH doesn't matter to be, but I dislike EP,OH. Thanks,L3X1◊distænt write◊00:58, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with this statement, since the real issue is that the train crashed. The vinyl chloride is the aftermath of the train crash but it's not the only way vinyl chloride can be leaked into the environment. RPI2026F1 (talk) 15:06, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Agreed with above comment, in addition to this it's not referred in media as a vinyl chloride disaster, it's referred to and is commonly known as a train derailment.Marleeashton (talk) 02:28, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Agree with all above - Does not make sense for it to be called this, nobody would know what this is. Odd title "rail disaster". The disaster wasn't because or about the rail. I really just vote "2023 East Palestine Train Disaster" - This way it'll be commonly recognized, and implies the event is beyond just a derailment.SwissAmish (talk— Preceding unsigned comment added by SwissAmish (talk • contribs) 03:19, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support — scanning various sources about this, it definitely looks like the chemical disaster is going to be the primary thing here, rather than the train disaster. It might be a little early for a rename, but I'm convinced that a year from now, something like "the Ohio chemical disaster" will definitely be the primary way people refer to this event, it won't be just a train crash. Krinn DNZ (talk) 06:27, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – We do not yet know the full extent of the contamination or cleanup, so it is too early to change the name. Most current media reports, such as CNN's report from the morning of February 11 still refer to this as a train derailment. If any move is to be made now, it should be to 2023 East Palestine train derailment as L3X1 said. I oppose the use of the term "disaster" unless specifically referred to as such by the NTSB and/or FRA. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk)00:33, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support The "Oppose" voters all make good points. However, describing the article solely as a train derailment would not be adequately addressing the main takeaway of this event. The actual derailment of the train is not as impactful as the subsequent chemical spill, which is already causing displacement and contamination. I think "2023 Ohio vinyl chloride disaster" is not understandable by most, but I am in agreement with L3X1 in renaming the article to "2023 East Palestine Train Disaster". Gaius Publius Scipio (talk) 00:40, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. I think using naming syntax purely based on train derailment examples, ignores other relevant precedents. Historically, one interesting example to consider is the Goiânia accident, one of the worst nuclear waste incidents ever. If Wikipedia had existed then, would the title have focused on the fact that it was a break-in to a hospital complex? Probably not. Obviously the train derailment is major part of the story, but the toxic waste is what is causing the news coverage. Train derailments happen all the time without being worthy of their own wikipedia article. mennonot (talk) 02:06, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Valid point, "vinyl chloride disaster" isn't a very comprehensive title. Move to shift towards "train disaster" or "chemical spill". Alternatively "chemical disaster". Though keep "Ohio" in the title as solely East Palestine may mislead folks. TSwanyIRL (talk) 20:25, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wait I feel like the response to the event is still ongoing and there might be more investigations coming. So I suggest waiting. However, I do composed a list of sources (reliable or not) calling the event "disaster" or "environmental disaster: [1] by Fast Company, [2] by WSWS, [3] by The Militant. -- Akira😼CA09:44, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support members of the public looking for information on this are likely more interested in the environmental contamination than the initial derailment; I suspect coverage will reflect that longer-term, so WP:NPOV would suggest following the conventions in public discourse ElectronicsForDogs (talk) 14:25, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
On second thoughts there are several articles with similar titles but they usually involve many deaths. I suppose there could be some basis for environmental disaster though it's not clear to me that this has risen to that level yet, given that the mandatory evacuation has already been lifted. – wbm1058 (talk) 17:11, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I added the article to Category:Chemical disasters, though the term "disaster" does not appear in the article body, a cited reference does use it. I think such a move is premature before the article more fully discusses the nature of the "disaster". – wbm1058 (talk) 17:47, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The ongoing crisis is notable not simply as a derailment. Describing its full scope, involving both the train's derailment and the colossal burn, warrants language that encompasses the full scope. Unless the derailment and burn will be treated in separate articles, 2023 East Palestine, Ohio rail disaster is a more complete article title. P-Makoto (talk) 17:15, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. "Disaster" is quite emotionally-charged for something with zero injuries thus far. I'm ambivalent on including the city or not, but it should remain "train derailment". Jumper4677 (talk) 17:21, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose or now "Disaster" is certainly not a neutral term, while "derailment" is much more neutral. Maybe in time if people start getting seriously sick or dying, we can reassess. But I do not oppose adding the town name to the title. Rreagan007 (talk) 20:03, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Given the new title, Oppose because I don't feel like the town name is super relevant to the disaster and does not serve the purpose of distinguishing ths accident since Ohio does not even have many rail disasters to warrant further specification by town names. RPI2026F1 (talk) 21:30, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the use of "disaster" in the title as there is no evidence that it is commonly known as one, which is required for such a loaded term. "Derailment" on the otherhand is perfectly neutral. I have no strong opinion on "Ohio" vs "East Palestine". Thryduulf (talk) 10:37, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support The disaster itself forced an evacuation only in East Palestine itself. There is substantial precedent for the naming of disasters after the city they affected, and "Ohio" is far too vague of a location. Additionally, I think that "derailment" does not accurately include the primary aspects of the accident, so I propose "2023 Ohio chemical accident". Very Conscious Citizen (talk) 15:15, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wait/Support per Ceoil and Osunpokeh, could be a big enviromental disaster effecting several states. Just to early at the moment, when the time comes either 2023 Ohio vinyl chloride disaster or 2023 East Palestine, Ohio chemical disaster Koltinn (talk) 15:33, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, at least for now. The event in question is not a "rail disaster" because there really isn't such as thing as a "rail disaster". The event is a train derailment creating a chemical spill. We may wish to veer more towards the spill aspect in the future, but "rail disaster" is a nothing phrase with no clear definition. DarkSide830 (talk) 20:04, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose any renaming, as the current title is descriptive enough and (at least for now) no disambiguation is needed. Support creating redirects from those suggested titles as potential search terms. — Huntster (t@c)20:34, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support The dead chickens, hens, animal and fish indicate a Disaster that is also affecting local citizens. This is not a common cold incident. Chemicals are flowing down the Ohio River. 108.183.79.51 (talk) 00:09, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support, there is precedent set for this naming convention. With the Lac Megantic Rail Disaster, the Ciurea Rail Disaster, the Awash Rail Disaster, the Firozabad Rail Disaster, the Khanna Rail Disaster, and the Sukkur Rail Disaster. The term derailment does not encompass the event's totality. As the majority of harmful effects from the event have come not directly from the derailment itself. But the manner in which the derailment was handled. The event encompasses a train derailment, a chemical spill, a chemical explosion, a chemical fire, a mass evacuation, an environmental disaster causing fish kills, and reports of farm animals being killed; and is woven into the current rail union labour movement. The term 'derailment' fails to encompass all of that. The term disaster as per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (events) is to describe if an accident was more destructive than other. There were 1044 train derailments in the United States in 2022, [4] Of those 1044 derailments, only one caused an evacuation of a nearby town. Paulina Louisiana, due to a single car leaking acid after a 6 car derailment.[5] 150 people were evacuated. East Palestine is a 38 car derailment, with an ensuing explosion, and fire. 4500 people were evacuated. The chemical contents of this train were released into the air, soil, and water in the surrounding area. [6]In Paulina, residents were free to return home after 1 day.[7] While residents in East Palestine were still awaiting clearance ten days after the accident. There are reports of fish kills, and animals kills ten miles from the derailment site. [8]
The term accident doesn't apply, as the burning of the chemicals was intentional. Derailment doesn't cover the extent of the event. Disaster does. Clowington (talk) 00:20, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose 1: Only putting East Palestine will make people think literally East Palestine/Israel, which would be really confusing. 2: I think the extent of the destruction of the train derailment wouldn't qualify it under WP:DISASTER; it's not the next Chernobyl or anything, though I do think @Clowington made a good point by saying that possibly "derailment" doesn't describe the whole issue.
Oppose because railway "disaster" is a sensationalist title that may create unwanted panic or bias for a reader reading this. The current title is good as it is. Captain Chicky (talk) 03:26, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support for following MOS:GEOCOMMA if whatever title we find consensus on includes "East Palestine, Ohio" as part of it (e.g., East Palestine, Ohio, train derailment; 2023 East Palestine, Ohio, vinyl chloride disaster; etc.). Otherwise agnostic about other elements of this discussion. —Collintc23:30, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support some kind of change that indicates that this is more than "just" a train derailment. This RM seems like it'll be a morass to close because of all the changes in the proposal so I'll just outline my thinking: 1) I would like some indication of the chemical aspect since that seems like the most damaging factor of the incident. 2) Do not make it more specific than Ohio. The effects appear to go beyond the town of East Palestine and into PA and WV so Ohio is good for now and perhaps consider a more inclusive regional name in the future. 3) Alternatively, naming it for the train company (Norfolk Southern) may be a good option to consider. It appears that working and safety conditions at the company played a significant role in the derailment. Axem Titanium (talk) 22:35, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. I see it as a given that this article name will change eventually, once a common name has emerged. Let's discuss in early 2024. VQuakr (talk) 21:22, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I support having rail disaster or train disaster in the title, but I’m neutral on the geographic aspect. Rail disaster or train disaster is better than train derailment since the aftermath is more important than the derailment. East Palestine is the most notable area that’s been affected, but it isn’t the only area that’s been affected. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:18, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose / Wait 2023 Ohio Train Derailment is good for now. Ohio is specific enough; East Palestine is a town of less than 300; if it were near Dayton or Cincinnati, then the city would be worthwhile; aside from sounding as if it's near Israel, it's just too obscure. If we have another Ohio TD by a tiny town, then maybe Ohio TD (EP). As for Train Derailment, okay for now; maybe TD and Fire or TD and Chemical Spill will be better later. I do not think vinyl chloride was the sole component of the spill, and the fire certainly produced other chemicals. For now, "Don't just do something, stand there." Laguna CA (talk) 01:57, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I am adding my voice to Jumper4677 and Rreagan007, to the effect that disaster should only be used in a case of a mass casualty event, which all of the above cited examples are, and which this one is not. StonyBrookbabble07:38, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't found a RS for this, but it's logical that with the approximate length of the train per the number of cars, which would be around a mile-and-a-half, that the front of the train was in Pennsylvania. If I do find a RS, would this be notable or trivia? I know that the derailed cars left the track wholly in Ohio so that wouldn't change. Mapsax (talk) 01:43, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Irrelevant. Disaster article doesn't need a 'trivia' section. Ohio state officials and the Ohio Emergency Management Agency are the ones responsible for cleanup efforts and disaster management/declarations, etc, etc. Only involvement Pennsylvania has that is noteworthy is the impact that the burning of the chemicals had on the parts of the state within the area. TSwanyIRL (talk) 02:27, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As this relates to the labor dispute
I think this catastrophe is related enough to the ongoing railroad labor dispute that resulted in executive action that prevented railroad workers from legally striking. It's hard to demonstrate a causal relationship between executive order and environmental tragedy, but maybe it's at least worth a mention? 2600:8800:118:6D00:0:0:0:BDAB (talk) 01:51, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm for the inclusion of this labor dispute. Part of this tragedy was caused by train cars not being inspected well enough as employees only had 90 seconds to do so instead of their previous 3 minutes. Union action was attempting to improve working conditions, including this aspect. A link could be inserted in the "See also" section. Safyrr13:26, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if you are talking to me or the other person, but I don't think the connection to the labour dispute is strong enough to warrant its own section in the article (at least, with what I know). I think just a mention in "See also" is appropriate.
I see a lot of speculation online though that the accident is partly caused by corporate greed, which union action could of maybe theoretically fought against. So, if over time more articles like this[1][2][3] pop up, and people want to create a section about this type of speculation, then I would support it. Safyrr17:55, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Putting it in the "see also" list is suggestively editorializing. There needs to be a reliable source for it to be mentioned in the article --- there are mentions of the labor dispute in articles from The Hill and the New York Times, so it's reasonable to include it in the text (maybe in the background, or in an "aftermath" or "public reaction" section. Biktor627 (talk) 07:50, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Details are still emerging regularly about the event, and given the refusal of national media to actively cover the issue up until this point I'm going to take a wild guess (/s) and say that there's a lot we still don't know. Article will be updated as those details emerge. So not as much a serious omission as just new details that have yet to be included. TSwanyIRL (talk) 02:31, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The derailment and fire were covered extensively throughout the world's media from the day after the derailment through to as of now the 17th of Feb. Stating that the media have not been covering this is incorrect. RLS 84 (talk) 10:50, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Section on government / national media failure to cover the situation?
Section title here essentially sums it up. The glaring lack of national media coverage and government silence in the week following the disaster has become quite a talking point, and could use a subsection in the Impacts and Reactions section. TSwanyIRL (talk) 02:42, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What would be the point of claiming that nobody's talking about it? It seems to have become a talking point on a lot of anti-establishment social media profiles types, but it's not matched in the reality of the situation--- there's plenty of discussion of it in the corporate press. Biktor627 (talk) 07:58, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe they haven't been reporting daily as in the Turkey/Syria earthquake zone where more people have died, but they are covering it. New York Times: In Ohio Town Where Train Derailed, Anxiety and Distrust Are Running Deep Nearly two weeks after a train carrying toxic chemicals derailed in East Palestine, Ohio, confusing messages from government officials have frayed locals’ trust.
This was the lead story last night February 15 on the NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt.
I keep reading Wikipedians say something isn't covered, but what is it? Specifically, I mean. Did people die, was it an inside job, did the train carry something it shouldn't have? InedibleHulk (talk) 21:10, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want to a watch a video on the off chance I sense whatever you do, I want the specific fact or facts They don't want us to know. Why is that so hard? InedibleHulk (talk) 23:38, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Compare and contrast national media coverage
Democracy Now “Bomb Train” in Ohio Sickens Residents: Railroad Cutbacks, Corporate Greed Led to Toxic Disaster
Don't blame me, I voted for Tim Ryan (sent his campaign money, too). Bet he wouldn't have waited over a week to talk about this from his Senate seat. – wbm1058 (talk) 13:11, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Is it true or false?. Is everyone in that area doomed. Is everyone in that area doomed to die a early death? I live in Maine does that mean I am f***ed. It scaring me. GALee246 (talk) 10:00, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We need an explanation of what the term "screening level" means. It's used twice in the article as it stands now. Nowhere in the article is the term defined. The EPA document in the footnote has a short section about "screening level" but even that does not offer a particularly cogent definition. For example, it's not clear whether "minimal risk level" and "screening level" are the same thing. 69.161.125.36 (talk) 13:49, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Vinyl chloride
It hasn't come up in the article, but the the media links refer to this this as a toxin which is incorrect: Vinyl chloride is a poison (there's no known biological origin of vinyl chloride). 24.51.192.49 (talk) 15:11, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's probably an even more correct term. The article on vinyl chloride does in fact state it may be produced through biological processes. The industrial vinyl chloride discussed here most certainly isn't, however, so I think toxicant is probably the more accurate term. 24.51.192.49 (talk) 21:13, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
RIN 2130-AC47
The braking system being discussed here was only for unattended cars, not moving cars. As stated in DOT ruling RIN 2130-AC47.
The ruling states:
"This rulemaking would amend the brake system safety standards for freight and other non-passenger trains and equipment to ensure better compliance of the requirements relating to the securement of unattended equipment. Specifically, FRA would codify some of the requirements already included in its Emergency Order Establishing Additional Requirements for Attendance and Securement of Certain Freight Trains and Vehicles on Mainline Track or Mainline Siding Outside of a Yard or Terminal ("Emergency Order 28"). 78 FR 48218 (Aug. 7, 2013). Amendments to FRA's existing regulations would include additional securement requirements for unattended equipment, primarily for those that include cars containing certain hazardous materials, and additional communication requirements relating to job briefings and securement verification. This rulemaking was recently downgraded to nonsignificant and will not appear on next month's report." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.125.151 (talk) 20:52, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
C'mon 27.32.125.151, are you working for Norfolk Southern?
All hand brakes must be fully applied on all locomotives in the lead consist of an unattended train.
All hand brakes must be fully applied on all locomotives in an unattended locomotive consist outside of yard limits.
The minimum requirement for an unattended locomotive consist within yard limits is that the hand brake must be fully applied on the controlling locomotive.
Railroads must develop, adopt, and comply with procedures for securing any unattended locomotive that is not equipped with an operative hand brake.
That was to mitigate the risk of a parked, unattended train rolling down into a town.
The section of the article under Background, "Brakes" doesn't clearly state the association with the article in question. It isn't clear whether brakes were involved in this accident or not. Some narrative and cited sources explaining how this relates to the article would be much appreciated. Otherwise, the read looks like it was thrown in as a particular Wikipedian's speculation about the cause, which isn't encyclopedic. So much as we want answers, the cause really should come from the investigation report of the NTSB. 98.191.147.19 (talk) 07:01, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For the cause we have to wait until an official report is made. The reason I put the link to the RIN 2130-AC47 Rule is because this is the Rule that is being quoted in newspapers. And it is being quoted out of context. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.235.43.141 (talk) 23:10, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't seen the newspaper stories quoting this rule. Perhaps they quote it as part of a more general background on previous hazmat derailments. This Wikipedia article isn't quoting this rule, so it's a non-issue here. – wbm1058 (talk) 17:53, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The content and effects of the derailment are also of interest. A train that falls on a forest is of different notability than one which falls on a person. Blackcat415 (talk) 11:46, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
How many of those 1,700 derailments result in mandatory evacuation of all residents within a mile, and "controlled" burns of chemicals? wbm1058 (talk) 12:38, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oh so there are chemicals involved and environmental concerns, and that's why it's notable? Maybe we should change the name from "train derailment" to something that reflects its notability then? 31.94.36.175 (talk) 12:51, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a person that tends, probably to my detriment, to be somewhat cavalier about chemicals, because I deal with them daily. However, with the stuff involved here, I would be getting myself and my family very far away from this. 24.51.192.49 (talk) 10:35, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That the U.S. government are deliberately concealing or otherwise hiding the scale and environmental damage and health hazards of the accident Trade (talk) 21:08, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, I tried finding your claim in that pile and couldn't (that European USA Today didn't even let me look). Could you copy and paste a sentence you think is close enough? If so, I'd appeciate it. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:03, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the claim: "A Feb. 13 Facebook post (direct link, archived link) shows screenshots of several social media posts on the Feb. 3 Ohio train derailment.
"THIS WAS PLANNED / BY DESIGN / FALSE FLAG," reads part of the post. "New reports indicate deadly vinyl chloride has contaminated the Ohio River as far as West Virginia, a water source for over 5 million.""
"But contrary to the post’s claim, vinyl chloride has not been detected to date in the Ohio River – a water source for about 5 million people, Ray told USA TODAY in an email." Trade (talk) 00:35, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can read that, thanks. So what I see is a Facebook post with only 500 shares, which you and I and USA Today seem to agree is bullshit. There was no conspiracy here, nor even a contamination. Why are we discussing it again? InedibleHulk (talk) 00:48, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's fear-mongering designed to soften people up. No, they haven't detected it downstream, yet, but it's coming... be afraid, be very afraid. Just vote for your authoritarian-in-waiting who will solve it all for you.
People are acting like this is so novel, comparing it with a nuclear power meltdown... well look what I just found at Miamisburg, Ohio § History. There's nothing here new under the sun. We just have a very different political environment today than back in 1986.
On September 10, 1978, 15 cars of a Conrail freight train derailed as the result of a hot box, caused by uneven distribution of steel ingots in a gondola loaded at Buffalo, New York by Republic Steel. They demolished a house at the Pearl Street crossing and killed three of its five occupants. As a result of a cooperative investigation by the Miamisburg Police Department and the National Transportation Safety Board, the deaths were ruled homicides by the Montgomery County Coroner.[citation needed]
Eight years later the city was the site of the July 8, 1986 derailment of 15 cars of a Baltimore and Ohio Railroad train, resulting in explosions of tank cars, emitted gas and clouds from phosphorus, on two successive days. The resulting thick white cloud engulfed communities as far north as Yellow Springs, Pitchin, and South Vienna. Rolling in like a massive desert dust storm across the horizon, the chemical cloud hugged the ground and blotted out the sun for several minutes before dissipating, according to the National Transportation Safety Board’s report. The explosions led to the evacuation of an estimated 25,000 to 40,000 residents from Miamisburg and surrounding southern Montgomery County municipalities, at the time this was the largest evacuation in U.S. history resulting from a train accident, according to William E. Loftus, executive director of the Federal Railroad Administration. This was also the largest evacuation in Ohio history.[1][2][3]
A nitric oxide distillation column at a local chemical plant known as Isotec exploded on September 21, 2003, causing school and other events to be cancelled. Isotec is a division of Sigma-Aldrich.[citation needed]
World headquarters of JatroDiesel is in Miamisburg. JatroDiesel manufactures biodiesel equipment and produces biodiesel, a sustainablealternative fuel to diesel. The headquarters of National City Mortgage Corporation, a division of National City Corp. was in Miamisburg. In 2009, PNC Bank purchased National City Bank and converted National City Mortgage into PNC Mortgage. The headquarters for PNC Mortgage moved to Downers Grove, Ill, but much of the servicing division remains in Miamisburg. World headquarters of LexisNexis were in Miamisburg. In 2007, the headquarters moved to New York City, but the operations have remained in Ohio.[citation needed]
In 2018, a time vault was opened to celebrate the city's 200th birthday.[citation needed]
Miamisburg Mound, the largest conical mound in Ohio, is attributed to the Adena culture, 1000-200 BCE
Miamisburg is the location of a prehistoric Indian burial mound (tumulus), believed to have been built by the Adena culture, about 1000 to 200 BCE. Once serving as an ancient burial site, the mound has become perhaps the most recognizable historic landmark in Miamisburg. It is one of the largest conical burial mounds in the Eastern United States.[4]
According to the United States Census Bureau, the city has a total area of 12.37 square miles (32.04 km2), of which 12.18 square miles (31.55 km2) is land and 0.19 square miles (0.49 km2) is water.[6]
Climate
View of Miamisburg under water, 1913.Linden Avenue, Miamisburg, after 1913 flood
The climate of Miamisburg and the surrounding region is dominated by a humid-continental climate, characterized by hot, muggy summers and cold, dry winters. Miamisburg is prone to severe weather because of its location in the Midwestern section of the United States. Tornadoes are possible from spring to fall. Floods, blizzards, and severe thunderstorms can also occur.[citation needed]
Miamisburg has suffered some natural disasters. On June 9, 1869, a tornado struck the northwest part of town, reportedly destroying roofs and chimneys, as well as uprooting trees. It also destroyed Linden Avenue Bridge. Blizzards struck the town in 1978, 2004, and 2008.[citation needed]
In 1913, the Great Dayton Flood destroyed much of the city. Not much precipitation is needed to flood locations such as Rice Field(s), which is on the banks of the Great Miami River.[citation needed]
As of the census[15] of 2010, there were 20,181 people, 7,948 households, and 5,570 families residing in the city. The population density was 1,656.9 inhabitants per square mile (639.7/km2). There were 8,604 housing units at an average density of 706.4 per square mile (272.7/km2). The racial makeup of the city was 93.8% White, 3.0% African American, 0.2% Native American, 1.0% Asian, 0.4% from other races, and 1.5% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1.6% of the population.[citation needed]
Out of a total of 7,948 households, 35.0% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 53.7% were married couples living together, 12.0% had a female householder with no husband present, 4.4% had a male householder with no wife present, and 29.9% were non-families. 25.4% of all households were made up of individuals, and 11.5% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.50 and the average family size was 2.98.[citation needed]
The median age in the city was 40.2 years. 25.1% of residents were under the age of 18; 6.4% were between the ages of 18 and 24; 25% were from 25 to 44; 27.2% were from 45 to 64; and 16.2% were 65 years of age or older. The gender makeup of the city was 47.6% male and 52.4% female.[citation needed]
2000 census
As of the census[7] of 2000, there were 19,489 people, 7,449 households, and 5,393 families residing in the city. The population density was 1,741.6 inhabitants per square mile (672.4/km2). There were 7,905 housing units at an average density of 706.4 per square mile (272.7/km2). The racial makeup of the city was 95% White, 1.6% African American, 0.13% Native American, 0.73% Asian, 0.04% Pacific Islander, 0.3% from other races, and 1.29% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.85% of the population.[citation needed]
There were 7,449 households, out of which 35.0% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 58.2% were married couples living together, 10.6% had a female householder with no husband present, and 27.6% were non-families. 23.3% of all households were made up of individuals, and 9.6% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.53 and the average family size was 3.00.[citation needed]
In the city, the population was spread out, with 25.9% under the age of 18, 7.1% from 18 to 24, 29.3% from 25 to 44, 22.4% from 45 to 64, and 15.3% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 38 years. For every 100 females, there were 92.2 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 87.7 males.[citation needed]
The median income for a household in the city was $48,316, and the median income for a family was $56,996. Males had a median income of $41,918 versus $28,045 for females. The per capita income for the city was $22,504. About 4.6% of families and 6.1% of the population were below the poverty line, including 7.3% of those under age 18 and 7.7% of those age 65 or over.[citation needed]
In 2024, Bricky's Comedy Club broke the world record for the "Longest stand-up comedy show - multiple comedians". The festival took place starting on February 14 at 3pm until the previous record of 80 hours and 2 minutes, held by the website NashvilleStandUp.com, was broken on the morning of February 18. The final run time of the festival was 84 hours, 58 minutes, 30 seconds. The festival was recorded in its entirety and is awaiting certification after-the-fact with the Guinness Book of World Records.[19]
Architecture
Due to the growth of the city in the 19th century, many of the older houses in the city are Victorian-style homes. They are concentrated in the neighborhood of "Old Miamisburg" (downtown and riverfront areas). Other architectural styles include Queen Anne, Italianate, and Second Empire-styled buildings. Much of Miami Township has residential housing of single-family homes, which were built during the expanded suburban development typical of the late 20th century, especially the 1970s through the 1990s. Newer houses have been built in the 21st century as some residents have sought higher-priced luxury homes, evidenced in new developments such as Pipestone, Crains Run, Heincke Woods, and Bear Creek.[citation needed]
To encourage and recognize Miamisburg citizens for maintaining the aesthetic appearance (tidiness, landscaping) of their property, the City Beautification Commission selects a number of "City Beautiful Awards" each July, August, and September for both residential and commercial properties. Additionally, the City Beautification Commission also offers awards for high-quality architectural renovation projects and for a number of holiday decoration displays in December.[citation needed]
Annual events
Numerous community events are held during the year, such as live music and block parties. Every spring, 'Spring Fest in the Burg' is held downtown in Riverfront Park. On Halloween, 'Boo in the Burg' offers special shopping and food specials for patrons.[20]
Other annual events include:
Miamisburg Turkey Trot[21] (Thanksgiving Day 8K Run/Walk)
Cruise The Burg (auto show)
Thunderburg Motorcycle Show
Government
Miamisburg is governed by council–manager government with a seven-member city council and a city manager, who is hired by council. Four members of city council represent their respective wards and three members are at-large. The city also has an elected mayor who largely fills a ceremonial role. While the mayor sits on council he or she votes only in the event of a tie.[22]
Public education in Miamisburg is provided by the Miamisburg City School District. The superintendent for the district is Dr. Laura Blessing (2020–present). Miamisburg has 6 K-5 buildings, and one PreK - 5th building (Medlar View Elementary School) The schools, and the years they were built are located below in parentheses. :[citation needed]
Bauer Elementary School (1967)
Bear Elementary School (1952)
Jane Chance Elementary School (2010)
Kinder Elementary School (1906, 2012 reconstruction)
Miamisburg is ranked third in the Dayton Area for the best academic rate scores. Miamisburg has won the "Excellent District Award" in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010, and 2011. For 2012, the district has been awarded the coveted "Excellent with Distinction" status. Miamisburg High School was recognized as a National Blue Ribbon School of Excellence in 1997. Both Wantz Middle School (closed; 2011) and Kinder Elementary were awarded Blue Ribbon Awards in the early 21st century.[citation needed]
After three failed attempts, voters passed a US$78.5 million bond issue on March 4, 2008. The bond issued raised $23 million for a large-scale addition and renovation project at Miamisburg High School and $31 million for the construction of Miamisburg Middle School, grades 6–8, which opened in August 2011. In addition, the bond issue included $11 million for Jane Chance Elementary School, the district's seventh K-5 facility, which opened in August 2010. Also included was $11 million for an addition/renovation project at historic Kinder Elementary School and $4 million in various improvements to Bauer, Bear, Mark Twain, and Mound elementary schools, including renovated administration spaces, enhanced security and safety features, as well as a project at Mound Elementary School for a new playground, student drop-off area, and redesigned parking lots.[citation needed]
Unrelated to the March 2008 bond issue but constructed simultaneously is Maddux-Lang Primary School, on the campus of Jane Chance Elementary School at Wood and Crains Run roads. Maddux-Lang, the district's $2 million preschool facility, was funded entirely through Transportation District Improvement funds related to the new Austin Boulevard interchange.[citation needed]
In addition to the public school district in Miamisburg, the city is also the home to the West Campus of Bishop Leibold School, a private catholic school named after Paul Francis Leibold. The West Campus of Bishop Leibold School deals with preschool through the second grade, while its East Campus in Miami Township deals with the third grade through the eight grade. Bishop Leibold School was awarded the National Blue Ribbon Award in 2008.[23] Bishop Leibold has also been working to improve its STEM education and as a result has been awarded along with its teachers the Governor's Thomas Edison Award for Excellence in STEM Education four school years in a row (2010–2014).[24] In its most recent school year for receiving the award (2013–2014) it was the only Dayton-area grade school to be recognized.[24]
Miamisburg is in the circulation area of the Dayton Daily News, and it publishes the Miamisburg/West Carrollton News. The city has a local radio station, WFCJ 93.7 – Christian (WFCJ Inspiration).[26]
Doesn't look like we have an article about that, but it happened before-Internet. Surely made national news, but I have no recollection. – wbm1058 (talk) 01:19, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Is it really notable that somebody said something stupid on Facebook? Were there any notable false claims, or did anybody act on them in a way that was destructive, or is it just posts about posts about posts? jp×g09:15, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can't find a source that specifies or estimates the amount of hazardous materials released. Including that might be helpful to understand the impact. The wiki page does say that 50 cars derailed, and 20 were carrying hazardous materials.
Their edit summary said Flagged brake section as possibly "Original Research". Please add narrative to tie the portion about the brakes into the narrative of the article and cite sources. The citation provided indicates the fault was a wheel bearing. I don't see the complaint as "Wikipedia editors are performing original research on the service performance and cost-effectiveness of ECP brakes, and the politics of mandating their use" (to determine whether they're broken LOL). The complaint I'm hearing is more one of WP:Synthesis of published material, i.e. the same issue discussed in the next section. – wbm1058 (talk) 18:08, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Brakes?
There is a very long section about regulations about train braking systems and Donald Trump, but it is not really explained how this relates to the event; it seems to me that the issue was an overheated axle bearing.
The only connection seems to be a single comment from a guy saying that it "would have reduced the severity" of the accident, who was a "senior official" (no title given) at the Federal Railroad Administration... but no longer works there, so he cannot have been speaking in an official capacity. I think that there should either be found a stronger connection between these two things, or the section should be trimmed: three paragraphs seems undue for a link this tenuous. jp×g09:20, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Donald Trump confirms visit to East Palestine, Ohio
Donald Trump has indicated that he will visit the site on 'Wednesday' 02/22/2023 and will "show up". Perhaps more attention will bring a FEMA disaster declaration and more support for the locals. I see Ohio's Republican Senator J.D. Vance has exposed some serious contamination in local streams and has expressed concern. 108.183.79.51 (talk) 03:44, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Missing facts about the immediate result of the derailment
I am just a reader of this article - living out on the West coast - but I am baffled by the lack of discussion of the immediate result of the crash. Didn't that pile of cars burst into flames, and then begin to heat the remaining cars? I was unable to find any facts like that in the article, which strikes me as suspiciously sanitized in favor of the railroad company. The article describes the decision to blow open and burn cars that had not been breached, without having even mentioned that there had been a fire prior to that point. Wasn't there a fire? If so, shouldn't there be some sentances that describe that? Very strange. Hekatonk (talk) 04:50, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Miamisburg
