Talk:2019–23 ICC Cricket World Cup League 2

Team and tournament status

Per the ICC Press Release, this tournament has ODI status (look at the table, in the row "League Status and rankings"). So unless the ICC state something different, not all 50-over matches played by teams who qualified from the WCL will be ODIs. For example, the USA have now been promoted to this tournament, and all their matches here will be ODIs. But say they have a series against the West Indies in the future (a posibility). It would probably be some T20I matches and maybe some 50-over games (compare with the USA tour to the UAE). As those 5matches are not in this tournament, they would not be ODIs. Thoughts? Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 16:51, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Promotion / Demotion

Interesting that the ICC have actually approved a procedure whereby a test-status team can actually be demoted in the ODI structure, through being beaten by non-test teams - [although it will probably be necessary for it to be 'eclipsed' by at least two "associate" members]: See https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27384084/how-teams-secure-qualification-rank-no-1-32 >

> Essentially, it would be a fight between: "... the 13th placed team in the ODI Super League and the champion of CWC League Two. Whichever of these two teams finishes in a higher position at the CWC Qualifier will claim the 13th spot in the ODI Super League for the 2027 World Cup Qualification, while the team that finishes in the lower position will play in the CWC League Two [leading up to the] for 2027 World Cup".

For example, if Zimbabwe finish below the Netherlands in the ODI Super League, and then end up behind the League Two champions (say Scotland?) in the subsequent CWC qualifier, then it looks as if Scotland would go up and Zimbabwe would go down.

Relieving Zimbabwe of its test-status, however, would presumably be a separate [and controversial] exercise - dependent, perhaps, on Zimbabwe's performance in recent test matches.

--DLMcN (talk) 18:01, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I came to similar conclusions when I first read it. I assume that any Test side would still keep their Test status, regardless of what happens in the ODI league. Would be very interesting if it was a bigger side than Zimbabwe (no offence to any Zimbabweans) to get relegated! Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 18:55, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Stats

Can the same be removed from other long term World tournaments such as 2019–21 ICC World Test Championship. @Lugnuts: Ankurc.17 (talk) 10:47, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes. Per WP:NOTSTATS #3 - we should not include "Excessive listings of unexplained statistics" into articles. These stats don't add any value to the article, have no context or prose to explain them, and have lots of terminology that is not explained to the reader. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 10:50, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Removed. Ankurc.17 (talk) 10:53, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:ICC World Cup Qualifier which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:47, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Future status

@Lugnuts: Hi. We all know the Super League wont be played again in the future. But does it also applies for the League 2 and the Challenge League? ICC havent said anything about the later two tournaments but holding them would be useless. Thanks Human (talk) 06:20, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi. The great un-answered question. I fear it will be scrapped too, with Associate teams taking a double hammering. Add to that the downgrading of the women's ODI matches this week for the qualifer, the ICC have really messed up! Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 06:58, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@A Simple Human: and if you look at the ICC website, there's literally no mention of the current round in Namibia of the Cricket World Cup League 2. They only added the scorecards to their site either late last night/early this morning. The ICC has done great things with T20I cricket for Associates, but outside of that, it's pretty poor. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 15:05, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

The EC guys think League 2 and the Challenge League may continue in some form, although nobody knows. It wouldn't be pointless as it could still feed into WC qualification, the only difference would be no team being "promoted" as the league above won't exist. Bs1jac (talk) 09:37, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

That's some good news - hopefully it does. However, my gut feel is it will get scrapped, and per all the sub-regional T20I qualifiers, the final teams will be based on their ICC rankings... Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 13:15, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

I meant future editions in some form. You are right, there is always a chance they will scrap the current cycle and go to average points or even rankings. We do have the "catch up" Oman-UAE series and, according to Cricclubs, the third Oman-UAE-Namibia triseries in March (possibly in Oman again instead of UAE) coming up. Going to be hard to fit all the missed series in by early 2023 though! Bs1jac (talk) 22:16, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

UAE March 2022 x2

@Lugnuts: Confirmation that there are two series in UAE in March (last sentence). Fixtures are on Cricclubs but not verified elsewhere. First contains and extra Nam-Oma game to make up for game postponed in Jan 2020. I have adjusted the schedule but could you please edit the two series pages as I am not sure how you plan to deal with them where they currently say "was scheduled", round numbers and seasons changing, etc. Thanks! Bs1jac (talk) 10:13, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Another good spot. Read that article yesterday, and never twigged with that last line. Will sort this out. Thanks again! Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 10:19, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: OK, I think I've done all the page moves and updates, etc. As they're both in March in the same place, they are here and here, similar to the two rounds in Oman. The other series that haven't been played and/or postponed can act as placeholders until something similar happens. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 10:45, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

More news

@Lugnuts: Have tou seen this from Namibia? Details of three more tri-series for CWCL2, one in Scotland and two in Namibia. Also a t20i tri-series with USA and Jersey (I'll look at that one tomorrow). Bs1jac (talk) 23:22, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Reading again, I think they are hosting USA and PNG twice (sep and nov), perhaps instead of a series in PNG, and hosting Scotland and Nepal (later in nov). That's in addition to Scotland hosting Namibia and Nepal (Jul). Bs1jac (talk) 23:52, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

I was about to inform you on this one. In other news, the full member teams will likely send their U23 teams in Cricket at the 2022 Asian Games. So there won't be T20Is for them. Human (talk) 05:03, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Wouldn't be surprised. Bs1jac (talk) 07:44, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Great news - will sort out the CWCL2 pages later today. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 07:53, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Dates are on Namibia's calander. Bs1jac (talk) 09:31, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: Right, here goes... After about an hour of page moves, and an hour beforehand to prep with good old pen and paper(!), I think I have everything in the right place.

"First up for the Eagles is a tour to Dubai at the beginning of March for a CWC League 2 tri-nations series against UAE and Oman" - I assume this is the existing round 9 page, as the dates in the calendar on Cricket Namibia overlap a bit with this.

"In July, Namibia will travel to Scotland for a CWC League 2 series against the hosts and Nepal, while Namibia will host two more CWC League 2 tri-nations series against the United States and PNG in September and November". OK, Scotland round 11, host for September as round 12, and host for November as round 13.

"At the end of November, Namibia is scheduled to host another CWC League 2 series against Scotland and Nepal". So this must be round 14.

Round 11 was originally scheduled in July 21, round 12 in Sept 22, round 13 in May 21, and round 14 in March 2022 per the state of this article before I edited it today. And round 13 was originally in PNG, but now looks to have moved to Namibia.

One final thing I've noticed is that round 11 has a very long run-time according to the calendar (7th to 23rd July), so maybe it's two back-to-back series. I'm guessing it could be the Feb23 round in Nepal also moved to Namibia, but time will tell. Phew! Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 13:38, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Didn't ping you correctly first time @Bs1jac:, but I'm sure you'll see this! :D Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 13:39, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Well played! Yes that's all exactly how I read it. The two in November are likely back to back, similar to rounds 9 and 10 in the UAE. Of course the round numbers in the home/away/neutral tables are now incorrect, and indeed some series appear to be changing venue (e.g. from PNG) anyway. Numbers may change again if other series are moved. That article has so much info, with the T20 tri-series as well (created), and women's tour to Netherlands (and possibly Germany), and home series against Uganda (an possibly Zimbabwe) - not creating those yet as clearly not finalised. Bs1jac (talk) 13:56, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Reassuring that we both read it in the same way - thank you! The hardest part was reading my own hand writing... Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 14:02, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

News! If you could do your best with these? Bs1jac (talk) 12:41, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

@Lugnuts: I didn't tag you properly... see above! Bs1jac (talk) 12:47, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Haha, just reading this! Yes, will sort this out. Thanks for the ping. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 12:48, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: - I think that's all sorted (for now). Let me know if I've missed anything obvious, or messed something up! Knew I'd have to move those Namibia pages too... Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 15:10, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Excellent stuff as always... I was tracking your progress, haha! I'll sense check later. I think that leaves three more series, plus two games to be rearranged between Namibia and UAE, which I thought would have been in round 9 but I guess UAE's February/March schedule is pretty packed! Bs1jac (talk) 15:12, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Oman qualified

Claim is that Oman have qualified - which I assume means Top 3 guaranteed from the table. But, if Oman lose all their remaining games, and then PNG lose all theirs and Namibia any left and the USA any left don't we get SCO 44pts, UAE 42pts, NEP 40pts and OMA 40pts - with SCO, UAE and NEP all having games left (9,7 and 10 respectively)? That would imply that isn't true (even close to being true actually - they might not even be "qualified" if they won all their remaining games, although it would probably be enough). The claim doesn't actually come from any official source (CricketEurope?). You might also want to note that the claim was made prior to the Oman v PNG match - but in the match report (by the same author) for Oman v PNG the next day, no claim was made that the win meant Oman had actually guaranteed qualification (which might mean the author realised they were very very wrong). 110.33.28.251 (talk) 01:12, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for posting this. I had my doubts about this too, despite me adding the source at the time. The latest press release from the ICC (28th May) states Oman's chances of qualification are "likely", so I've changed it in the table. Thanks again! Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 08:59, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

@A Simple Human: - latest update from the ICC - even they're not 100% sure if Oman are now through! Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 07:04, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

@Lugnuts: This is Oman's last series and all they have to do after that is sit and watch. Teams like Namibia and Nepal has quite a couple of games to play so lets see what happens. Human (talk) 07:19, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

At this point, Oman should be though? The UAE has 10 games left so even if they win all of them, they will be at 36 points

and if Nepal wins all the games they will be at 42 points.

This ignores that some of the fixtures are UAE vs Nepal. Therefore, Oman should finish in the top 3 regardless? Sputink (talk) 16:08, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Promotion

Looking at Kakapo's recent edit, am I right that some sort of promotion/demotion will still take place? - such that the top-ranked team in League 2 might "go up". --DLMcN (talk) 11:24, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Inconsistent treatment

There are 3 "adjustments" to the detailed results table that reflect the changes to the schedule - however they have not treated the changes the same. For "1" and "3", the matches that have been moved are shown in the table in the location where they were actually played (actually for "1" I think this is what is intended as it hasn't happened yet), however for "2" the matches are shown as being played at "home" even though they were actually played in a neutral venue. Which is the preferred way of reflecting the change? (neither is right or wrong, but they should be consistent). 165.12.252.107 (talk) 22:46, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

The way that we have been trying to do this (and it has been getting ever more complicated), is that if a series was moved to a neutral venue (the 2022 PNG series that was moved to UAE) it remians listed as a "home series" for the results summary, with a note added to indicate the venue change. This being because PNG were the designated hosts. Where matches have been moved so that one of the competing teams is now the new host, we have added those matches as "home" for the new host (e.g. Oman-UAE matches that should have been at a neutral venue, but were played in Oman). Not yet confirmed reliably, but it looks like the 2023 PNG series will also be moved to UAE, and they will then be recorded as UAE home games (and neutral venue for PNG v Nepal); with no home games recorded between PNG and Nepal/UAE. Bs1jac (talk) 12:19, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Is the previous note (and 3Papua New Guinea's designated home matches against Nepal and UAE, and the neutral matches between Nepal and UAE, will be played in the UAE.) correct. Why is this particular series being determined to be "PNG's home series but played in UAE" when a series in February 2023 in the UAE with PNG and Nepal has been noted in ICC documents since 2020 (as linked in the references)? 110.33.28.251 (talk) 22:37, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

UAE v Namibia and Round 20/21

Matches will be played on 23 and 25 February (staring at 9:30 presumably that is local). Source is the CricketNamibia calendar (and I'll be honest here, it's the most detailed calendar you will get access to!). See here - select February 2023 obviously. 110.33.28.251 (talk) 11:46, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Last two series are a bit confusing. Czarsport has a link that notes the dates without actually noting the venue, but Cricket.com suggests the first 6 matches (presumably Round 20) will be played in UAE and the last six (Round 21) in Nepal. Presumably it's really that Round 21 is now Round 20 and in UAE not PNG and Round 20 is now Round 21 in Nepal. 110.33.28.251 (talk) 12:44, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Just to say I have tidied up some of the redirects as two orphaned pages had been left behind by you (i.e. pages no longer needed). Cricket.com is not a very reliable source and we would not normally add such details until the games are either on Cricinfo or Criclubs, or until there has been an announcement. Because you started the job of rearranging the articles for rounds 20 and 21, I decided to assume that these sources are at least correct in terms of host nation, and corrected the fixtures both here and on International cricket in 2022–23. Round 21 in Nepal WILL need a round number in the title to distinguish it from round 19 (also in 2023), but I won't do that until the series are confirmed more officially. Ps: The Namibia calendar is useful, and I had already added those fixtures based on this (but using the times from cricclubs); also note that the calendar has the "wrong" fixtures for round 19 (different order of matches); or at least different to cricclubs which is usually right! Bs1jac (talk) 12:26, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Points Table

How did the "Points Table" get into such a mess? ... I'm not sure how to edit and correct it. See: https://www.espn.co.uk/cricket/table/series/19439/season/2019/icc-mens-cricket-world-cup-league-2 --DLMcN (talk) 12:05, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Good spot. Usually you can just revert the last couple of edits to fix. That's all I did. The first editor's changes are invariable unsourced and wrong most of the time - the second was just vandalism. 110.33.28.251 (talk) 12:41, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Battling for final position

Providing some interest and even 'drama' - these last two series will feature Nepal's struggle to climb away from the penultimate position [with the possibility of demotion if it gets outperformed by Canada and Jersey in the Playoff Tournament - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_ICC_Cricket_World_Cup_Qualifier_Play-off ].

That^ might involve pushing the UAE down into that critical penultimate position ! ... However, both Nepal and the UAE might manage to leapfrog over the USA - thereby condemning the USA to that unfortunate penultimate spot !

Nepal and the UAE are in fact probably aiming even higher - hoping and trying to get into third position at the expense of Namibia, thereby avoiding the need to even participate in the Playoff Tournament. --DLMcN (talk) 18:04, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

On current form, it looks like USA or UAE finishing 6th and having to defend their ODI status in the play-off. UAE and Nepal can both only afford to lose one of their last seven games to overtake Namibia in 3rd as the first tiebreaker is number of wins (then head-to-head record, then NRR), so they both need six wins, or five wins and a tie/no-result. Bs1jac (talk) 12:26, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Cheater of the tournament

🇦🇪UAE 2400:1A00:B111:AE13:346D:F1A8:B70E:4E24 (talk) 07:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)