Talk:Mesopotamian mythology/Archive 1

This page is within the scope of WikiProject Iraq, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Iraq on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IraqWikipedia:WikiProject IraqTemplate:WikiProject IraqIraq

Mythology

This page is supported by WikiProject Mythology. This project provides a central approach to Mythology-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the WikiProject page for more details.MythologyWikipedia:WikiProject MythologyTemplate:WikiProject MythologyMythology

Ancient Near East

This page is within the scope of WikiProject Ancient Near East, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ancient Near East related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ancient Near EastWikipedia:WikiProject Ancient Near EastTemplate:WikiProject Ancient Near EastAncient Near East

Untitled

The original Talk page for this article has been destroyed and the history page truncated..

"Mesopotamian Mythology" is the correct title. I agree. The title implies the oral tradition that developed in the early Sumer culture that was continued as oral tradition or written down in texts (e.g. Gilgamesh). Babylonian mythology/religion was developed after writing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.39.204 (talk) 21:16, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Mesopotamian mythology" is the correct title and the convention (see Encyclopaedia Britannica and others.) Sargonious represents himself as an Assyrian nationalist and moved this page (January 13) alone without discussion, explanation. Now I would support a movement for independence of Assyrians and Kurds in Iraq (isn't Iraq naturally three or four countries?), but Encyclopedias are not soap boxes for political pet projects.

How does anyone type in "Assyro-BabyloMGA HOTDOG BA NINYO NAKAIN NINYO NA MGA CHEESEDOG HARHAR NGENGENGE BLURFFFF....nian mythology" anyway? or perhaps we are to adopt Sumero-Akkado-Assyro-Babylonian mythology to be most precise? Iranian nationalists will of course want to receive recognition for the influence of ancient Persia in the religion of the region, so perhaps Zoroastro-Sumero-Akkado-Assyro-Babylonian mythology would cover all bases. Did I leave anyone out?

Drastic moves like this should be discussed with others and the associated Talk pages should never be destroyed.

Castanea dentata 20:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, definitely move it. "Assyro-Babylonian" is a dumb name. If it's general, it should be "Mesopotamian", and if it's specific, it should be either "Assyrian" or "Babylonian". In fact, we already do have a page on Babylonian mythology. —Keenan Pepper 02:50, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Drastic Editing Needed

Who is responsible for "This accounts for the origin of most of the world as we know it according to the a summary of most of the myths." This is eronious, a POV and needs removal.

John D. Croft 16:58, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions

You need to decide whether the Sumerian or the Akkadian (Assyrian-Babylonian) names of the deities should be used in the text. At present, names of Sumerian and Akkadian deities are mixed together; Utu/Shamash, Inanna/Ishtar and Nanna/Sin.

While there are firm archaeological support for a good description of Sumerian gods and their temples, you should be cautious when dealing with Sumerian mythology. With few exceptions, all religious literature -the myths- known to us were written down in the Old Babylonian period, and later (Enuma elish, Athrahasis, the Gilgamesh epic).

--JFK 19:52, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- note, there are full descriptions of many Inanna texts from the URIII period, though whether those reflect traditional sumerian religion or show influence of the just ended Akkadian religion cna't be determined.  Some people think sumerian was nothing but a literary language by that point!  And dont' forget, fragments of Bilgames (gilgamesh's earlier sumerian incarnation) exist in sumerian.

I also would say its wise not to chose "one name" for the gods, as the gods are not equivalent. Their roles and importance changes. Mesopotamian scholars would not mistake Inanna for Ishtar, as their characters and relative importance are different enough that they refer to the one they mean, not only by historical period, but invoking the personality of that deity. Shamash/Utu is another great example! Dumuzi/Tammuz... picking one name won't solve anything, it will obliterate the difference between them.

This article needs an overhaul, and to be kept separate. Sumerian in one article, Semitic in another. with an overview perhaps in this article and "see main article Sumerian Mythology" or whatever linked in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.52.182.179 (talk) 07:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

should add an "in popular culture" section..... mostly to link to Neal Stephenson's novel Snow Crash —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.100.52 (talk) 06:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Template of Ancient Mesopotamia

I inserted this article Mesopotamian mythology into the Template:Ancient Mesopotamia, and replaced it with the odd choice Nibiru (see Template talk:Ancient Mesopotamia. I think this article makes a good starting point in the mythology section of the template with a lot of valuable entries. --JFK 16:43, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to know if whoever it was that wrote the deity section actually speaks English, and is so if they could please at least make the punctuation semi-coherent. Or at least proof-read the thing before posting it.

Suggestion in dealing with various cultures, etc.

While I support having a general Mesopotamian mythology page, it seems that such a page should be truncated into sections dealing with Sumerians and Babylonians, at least. They're two different time periods and have different takes on the myths that are shared at all. Perhaps the Mesopotamian mythology page could be a general overview, while detailed accounts of the myths could be provided in Sumerian mythology and Babylonian mythology respectively. --Krishva 06:40, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They should be demerged as happened on http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Sumerian_mythology&oldid=8136846, the fact that Marduk is the head honcho to the Babylonians and Enlil was to the Sumerians is also another point. Most likely if you asked a Sumerian who Marduk was they would answer, What are you on drugs or something!!!. Enlil Ninlil 21:09, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Or, maybe, if you asked the Man in the Moon how much cheese he exported each year, you would get the answer: "go get yourself an ice cream"! Said: Rursus ☻ 13:27, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Different view

I stated this on the babylonian mythology page. But this page really does a poor job of dealing with "mesopotamian myhtology". It treats it as a single unified mass. But 3rd millenium mythology, 2nd millenium mythology, nand 1st millenium mythology are different balls of wax. Sumerian and Semitic deities are presented beside one another, and, in some cases (erroneously sometimes) simply declared equivalent. Ishtar might have her roots in the cult of Inanna, but she's hardly an identical character. The prominence of inanna for sumerians is not similar to the prominence of ishtar for babylonians/assyrians. Similarly, greeks thought of Ares entirely negatively, but the romans thought of mars often quite positively. You would not equate Mars with Ares; they simply aren't the same person, despite serving SIMILAR functions in the pantheons.

I think this article needs expanding, from assyriologists/sumerologists, or division into 'sumerian" and "semitic" mesopotamian mythologies, including some kind of chronology. Marduk/Ashur are head honchos in the 2nd millenium onward, but only to those cities (Babylon, Ashur/nineveh/calach) where the cults were located. And during times when those cities were at the heads of great empires. What about, as someone points out, the Enlil dominance during much of sumerian dominance of the south? Dumuzi and Tammuz, Enki and Ea, these gods lose in importance greatly in the transition to semitic deities. (H)Adad is not the same as Ninurta/Ningirsu....

what about the pre-anthropomorphic sumerian deitis? Imdugud for instance? Anzuu?

This mish-mashery obliterates any change of transformation. it would be like presenting christianity, and judaism, as one religion, with a couple different terms, and no sense of the historical development, one from the other, then both inside themselves... :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.52.182.179 (talk) 06:55, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And lets not forget the OTHER mesopotamian cultures that exist in the periphery. Urartu, Hannigalbat! ELAM! ooi oi oi ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.52.182.179 (talk) 07:04, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone against a Sumerian Mythology page: speak now or forever hold your full-reverts. NJMauthor (talk) 20:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Er...

For example, the Biblical account of the creation of man as well as Noah's flood resemble the Sumerian tales very closely, though the Sumerian myths were written many centuries earlier than the Tanakh (Old Testament).

Citation needed? (ApostleJoe (talk) 20:22, 18 January 2008 (UTC))[reply]

I think so. It would be easier to say that Noah's flood resembles similar Mesopotamian myths thought to [citation needed] originate in the Sumerian myth of Zi-ud-sura/Utnapishtim. But still citations would be good. Said: Rursus ☻ 18:29, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I move that a seperate article be created for Sumerian Mythology, as proposed b y 70.52.182.179. Later, we can get an Akkadian and Assyrian one going too. NJMauthor (talk) 23:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That would be good. Would you please go vote against merging Babylonian mythology with Mesopotamian mythology, HERE if you wish? Separating the mythologies would be preferable because of the long time span, I think. Said: Rursus ☻ 18:34, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Garden of Eden in Hunza Valley ??

What do you think of the theory based on geographical data and numerics as promoted by Prof. Emilio Spedicato, of University of Bergamo, Italy, that the Garden of Eden was really located in Hunza Valley of Northern Pakistan ?

Please check the following two very interesting articles by him :--

1. "Geography and Numerics of Eden, Kharsag and Paradise: Sumerian and Enochian Sources Versus the Genesis Tale": URL: http://itis.volta.alessandria.it/episteme/ep7/ep7-eden.htm

2. "EDEN REVISITED: GEOGRAPHY, NUMERICS AND OTHER TALES (REVISED VERSION", URL: http://www.unibg.it/dati/persone/636/419.pdf

Does his theory warrants a mention of it anywhere in the Wiki article ?--Monmajhi (talk) 16:22, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

End

I would like to know how ths mythology came to an end? Was it because of christian persecution at the same time as in Rome! Enlil Ninlil (talk) 08:53, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mesopotamian mythology arguably lost its remaining distinct identity after the conquest of the Persian empire by Alexander the Great in the 4th Century BCE. It was not the result of Roman persecution. NJMauthor (talk) 02:44, 24 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Mesopotamian mythology/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Needs reference citations and formal references. Badbilltucker 01:48, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 01:48, 25 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 23:44, 29 April 2016 (UTC)