Talk:Pan-Slavic colors

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Hyperpanslavism

Poland had its colors way before panslavists, so this may be a pure coincidence. After all Flag of France is also 100% "pan-slavic".

Therefore unless the statute of the flag says something about pan-slavism expressly or this is known from the history of the creation of the flag, one better not to list them. It is a common rule of wikipedia:verifiability.

The most suspicious entries here are Poland, Sakha, Yamalia, Taimyria, "former Nenetsiya", "former Belarus".

Specifically, Poland and "former Belarus" would feel strongly against Panslavism, which for them means colonization by Russia, and in the latter case, total annihilation as nation.

Also, what the heck is "Flag of Ruthenians"? Dont' we know that the latter term requires a heavy disambiguation?

mikka (t) 17:18, 27 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Unlike France, which is not Slavic state, Poland and Belarus are Slavic states. So, the flag of France is totally unappropriate here. You are right that Polish flag have different roots. Flags of the Russian autonomous republics and regions seems to be based on the Russian flag (but I am not sure about this). Can you explain the roots of the former Belarussian flag? Flag of the Ruthenians is a flag of ethnic Ruthenians/Rusyns. User:PANONIAN

Ok, I removed flags of France, Sakha and Poland, since it is clear that these 3 do not belong here. In fact, there is problem. Flag of Poland is older than pan-Slavic colours, but Polish flag was a base for the Czech flag. The pan-Slavic colours might not have only Russian, but also Polish roots. We maybe should return Polish flag. As for the flags of Yamalia, Taimyria, "former Nenetsiya", and "former Belarus", if you are sure that they are not based on the Russian or pan-Slavic colours, please remove them (They look pan-Slavic to me). User:PANONIAN

Here are the problems:

1. Flag of the Poland, not pan-Slavic, but maybe one of the roots for pan-Slavic colours (for sure it is one of the roots for the flag of the Czech Republic). User:PANONIAN
- Polish flag is not root for czech flag. Both polish and czech flag was first white-red. But not becouse of pan-slavism movement in 18th or 19th century, but becouse of coat-of-arms of this states. White polish eagle (czech lion) on red area. Blue triangle was added to czech (czechoslovak respectively) flag as a disctinction. One reason was that blue is "slavic", another was usage of this color in moravian and slovak coat-of-arms (other parts of czechoslovakia)

- Pan-slavism has a definite date. Poland predates it. If the statute of panslavist flag says something in the respect of commonness of polish and russian flag, then listing Poand here is OK. Otherwise it is a coincidence.mikka (t) 23:03, 27 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
2. Flags of the Permyakia, Yamalia, Evenkia, Taymiria, and former flag of Nenetsia. All these flags look like to have been based on the Russian flag. I am not sure about this. If somebody know is this correct or not, he should write this here. User:PANONIAN
3. Former flag of the Belarus. What are the roots of this flag? Pan-Slavic or not? User:PANONIAN
- Pan-slavism has a definite date. The belarussian roots in GDL, way earlier. We don't call Soviet flag pan-slavic just because it is red. mikka (t) 23:03, 27 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, then Poland and Belarus should not be here, but what about these Russian autonomous regions? Are these flags based on Russian flag or not? User:PANONIAN

It looks like that their design, especially of Chukotka, deliberately hints to a Russian flag, and there are solid reasons to think so. So I'd say not to worry about what is left here, until serious objections arise. mikka (t) 00:43, 28 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

France

Mikka, the article already contain this sentence: "These three colours are, symbolising freedom and revolutionary ideals, also used on the flags of many non-Slavic nations, including the United States, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and France."

So, we do not need to write that "Flag of France accidentally has the same colors, although arranged in vertical strips". Dont you agree? User:PANONIAN

Sorry, I didn't notice the sentence. In your edit comment you sould have written "rm duplicated info". mikka (t) 00:35, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The classic red-white-blue tricolour is an allusion to the flag of the 16th-century Dutch revolution, the first revolution ever, and as such is a symbol of independance. That's why these colours were chosen for the flags of so many freedom-loving countries, including UK and US. The Flag of of the French Revolution (i.e., the Flag of France) is actually the Dutch flag with stripes arranged vertically. The Flag of Russia, which is the source of the pan-Slavic colours, was also modeled after the Dutch tricolour.

So all these flags are interconnected. Nevertheless, I would reserve the article for those flags that resulted from the 19th-century Pan-Slavism, i.e., primarily for the flags of the Balkan countries. For those states, the Pan-Slavic colours underlined their solidarity with Russia at the time when it was the only world power championing their liberation from the Ottoman yoke, in despite virulent opposition by France, Britain, etc. --Ghirlandajo 07:47, 28 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

A slight correction: for many of the Slavic peoples at the time, the yoke was also Austro-Hungarian or Prussian. Zocky 09:13, 28 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Unlike France, which is not Slavic state, Poland and Belarus are Slavic states. I doubt anybody in Poland places any importance of having "slavic" origins.The idea of Slavic background as something important for the state or the nation is rather a Russian concept. Panslavism in Poland is disliked(to say the least) as it was used by Russia to justify occupation of Poles by Russians. So its very doubtfull if culture in Poland connects our flag to mythical slavic colours.Perhaps some fringe groups. Molobo

Disputed

The dispute seems to have been solved so I have removed the {{accuracy}}-tag. --Palnatoke 09:12, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Panslavic and "Slavic"

I will remove the OR "Slavic" flags since it this article about Panslavic colours. The Flag of Poland is flag of Poles-not only those from Slavic ethnicity but also Tatars, Germans, Jews, Greeks who are members of Polish nation--Molobo (talk) 17:03, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

All flags of countries with a Slavic majority are presented here, and it is clearly outlined which flags build on the "panslavic" colours and which don't. Such deletion as you conducted once already is pure vandalism. JdeJ (talk) 17:10, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do countries that have those flags present them as "Slavic" ? Can you back up this with reference ? Otherwise It can be considered OR to name them such. Also this is article about panslavic idea not about 'slavic flags' --Molobo (talk) 17:12, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Using different colors" section

What is this? This article is about the Pan-Slavic colors, not Slavic nations using different colors. The sentence "The flags of some Slavic nations and entities, for various reasons, do not contain the Pan-Slavic colours" is especially indicative of useless information. Also, compare to the articles on Pan-African and Pan-Arab colors for precedent. Anyone have a compelling reason it should stay? danis1911 (talk) 16:56, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the flag of Bulgaria does not have the blue stripe, and yet it's based on Pan-Slavic colors, it's just one color was replaced with green to represent agriculture. Just like the flag of Chad is a compromise between Pan-African and French colours and therefore may be mentioned in the article about Pan-African colors. Hellerick (talk) 13:11, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Slovenian exception

This sentence would need a reliable source: "The same is true for the flag of Slovenia, which takes its colors from the flag of Carniola." It may be so but the inspiration for the flag may be pan-slavic as it was presented in 1848. I think statement such as this must be taken from a reliable source before being posted on wikipedia. --Odisej (talk) 14:16, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Countries that are not pan-slavic

Britain got its colour from the Irish, Scottish and English crosses, not borrowed from Russia or Dutch flags
USA took it's colours from Britain
The Dutch flag is not pan-Slavic because it wasn't based on Russia's flag, Russia's flag was based of the Dutch Flag.
Finally, almost none of them are in stripes where as the Pan-Slavic colours are! See for yourself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.71.100.135 (talk) 17:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bulgaria

First of all, I find it questionable, that Bulgaria should be mentioned at all since there isn't any proof or even a theory, that the Bulgarian flag could have anything to do with the panslavic colours. The green-white-red combination

Second; even if it would be worth mentioning, that the Bulgarian flag is not panslavic, the sentence "instead having a flag very similar to that of Russia but with the central blue strip replaced by a green one" should be removed, since it is insinuating, that the Bulgarian flag has something to do with the Russian, but is not saying it. And indeed, it can't be said, since there isn't any evidence, that the Bulgarian flag descends from the Russian one, and that the blue has been "replaced" by green. So I wiil remove this part, if nobody objects. --Kreuzkümmel (talk) 23:17, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All right then. --Kreuzkümmel (talk) 17:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Other Slavic flags" section

Shouldn't the flags of Poland, Belarus, Bosnia etc be included there? Unless anyone objects, I think I will be adding them. Regards, --Spivorg (talk) 20:10, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, it's done. Best, --Spivorg (talk) 13:01, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You could probably include them into a separate section, something like "Flags of Slavic countries with non-Pan-Slavic colors", but not with the flag of the Sorbs, which actually follows the Pan-Slavic tradition. And what happened to Montenegro and Ukraine? Hellerick (talk) 01:17, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No references

Aside from the fact that this article provides no references whatsoever, it has been edited sporadically according to tastes (read as WP:OR as attested to by the talk alone.

While I don't wish to nominate the article for deletion, it's in desperate need of reliable and verifiable sources. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:06, 25 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Flag of the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia

@Nick Mitchell 98: I reverted your edit. You added the flag of the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia to the gallery in this edit. You cited this page as a source. Now, I would like you to tell me where exactly on that page is the source that says that the flag has Pan-Slavic colors? I don't see any mention of Pan-Slavic colors on that page. Vanjagenije (talk) 21:22, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanjagenije: Apologies for that reference not having specific mention of Pan-Slavic colours. Is this page more appropriate? P.S. this flag is already included at Wikimedia Commons list of Pan-Slavic flags. Nick Mitchell 98 (talk) 08:05, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick Mitchell 98: That source is not reliable because it uses Wikipedia as a source (it is almost copied from this version of this Wikipedia article). Using such source would be contrary to WP:CIRCULAR. Vanjagenije (talk) 11:46, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Poland

Poland may not have blue, but it has red and white, should it be added to the article? Jjjjjjdddddd (talk) 06:12, 24 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, if you find a reliable source that says Polish flag has Pan-Slavic colors. Vanjagenije (talk) 18:20, 24 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Really? It seems like a WP:BLUE case to me. Jjjjjjdddddd (talk) 00:44, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No. The scope of this article is highly specific. An RS is needed or it's plain WP:SYNTH. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 18:28, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just a point that the Polish flag has used red and white since the 13th century, about half a millennium before Pan-Slavism was conceived and a good 600 years before the tricolor was adopted. So it's best not to mention Pan-Slavic . --Coldtrack (talk) 20:06, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, good point. Jjjjjjdddddd (talk) 22:44, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Illustration of the wedding procession of Sigismund III Vasa in Kraków from the Stockholm Scroll (c. 1605).

What does this have to do with Pan-Slavism? The choice of these colors has nothing to do with Pan-Slavists!