User talk:Eric Corbett/Archives/2014/November

Little Moreton Hall Knot Garden

Hi Eric, Could I ask why you think File:Little Moreton Hall garden - geograph.org.uk - 433632.jpg is better than File:Little Moreton Hall Knot Garden.jpg at illustrating the Knot Garden at Little Moreton Hall? --Baresi F (talk) 01:28, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Because it's a more close-up image that better shows the knot garden. Eric Corbett 03:01, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Neotarf

... is just trying to wind you up, as seems to be their common style (photos that Drmies took down, for example). You know what to do. - Sitush (talk) 22:34, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

You're quite right, thanks for the reminder. Eric Corbett 22:46, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

More excitement, Sitush? Drmies (talk) 17:10, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Not on-wiki, as far as I am aware; it was just the usual needling from someone who seems to do little else. Off-wiki, the project-related aggravation continues but my mood is primarily despondency courtesy of Manchester City 1 - 0 Manchester United. - Sitush (talk) 17:13, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Chris Smalling ought to be bloody ashamed of himself! Eric Corbett 17:15, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Football? There is no football this weekend--Alabama had a bye week. I hope y'all are ready for LSU next week: it's going to be hugely EPIC. Drmies (talk) 17:37, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

This peculiar US usage of "football" has been raised at the FAC for William Beach Thomas today ;) As for LSU, as usual I lack clue: the nearest sporting acronym I know of is LSH, which is Liverpool St Helens F.C.. I've had a few decent games there, and one trip to hospital. - Sitush (talk) 17:45, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, if this Thomas person don't know the Tigers, screw him. Are you telling me you were deprived of the drama of the 2011 season, when LSU beat us and we got a rematch in the championship game and we whooped 'em bad? And DYK that some LSU players are still in New Orleans, cause someone painted a fifty-yard line across I-10? Hahahahaha! (Best football joke ever.) No one likes playing LSU--they're badasses. They barely speak English. Death Valley has to be one of the worst places to play. Plus, our coach used to be their coach, so there's plenty of hate to go around! Drmies (talk) 18:06, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

FMUTwo kinds of pork^Makin'_Bacon 17:30, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

@Drmies: I was going to say something about LSU but as a Virginia Tech fan who just got beat by Boston College I think I'll refrain.--Church ^Talk 18:13, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Let me get this straight.if you will excuse a possible pun. Are y'all talking here about the sport where men wear shoulder pads and extremely tight leggings? Not to mention colourful hats and eye-shadow? - Sitush (talk) 18:19, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

I was trying to figure out why you were talking about soccer. No one watches that. Dennis - 2¢ 18:27, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Anyone know what the global TV audience is for the football World Cup vs Superbowl? ;) - Sitush (talk) 18:28, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Inside the US, around 200 million vs 1,200, and those 1,200 are people stuck in the airport. And let me be honest, I love antagonizing people by playing dumb American. ;)Dennis - 2¢ 18:33, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

You're only playing at being dumb American? ;) That really is a joke, DB: no offence intended. The TV audience for the last SuperBowl was apparently 111.5 million, although I've just raised a query about that on the article talk page. - Sitush (talk) 18:37, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

I was talking about this with a Belgian friend that has moved here. He has an RV and drives all over the US as part of his new job. He said he now understands why Americans tend to be US-centric. The country IS as large as a continent, and each state really is as different as being in a different country: we just all speak English. Knowing a fair amount about the US and only the US is still a lot of information. That doesn't excuse wilful ignorance, but most people don't realize how large and populous the US is until they come here. Seeing it as numbers on a piece of paper just doesn't do it justice. Dennis - 2¢ 18:51, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

I disagree, Dennis (respectfully of course): I don't think these states are different at all. I mean, the landscapes are, but the food and the people and the politics and all that--not so much. Drmies (talk) 20:53, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Drmies, a young whippersnapper like you just hasn't been around enough ;) I've lived in North Dakota, Arizona, Texas and other places, and have done extensive travelling. The differences aren't as big as going from France to Germany, but they are more than subtle. Even my Belgian friend remarked about this. You can't get Brains and Eggs for breakfast at a restaurant in Arizona or North Dakota, but I bet you can in your city just north of me in Virginia. NC is 35% African American, Arizona is 3%. Texas is 35% hispanic, everyone in Montana is pretty pasty looking. You can buy a joint legally in Denver, it gets you a ticket in NC, and you go to jail in Dallas. Taxes are completely different in each state, for income, gas, tobacco, alcohol, etc. California has its own auto emissions laws. I can hear the difference in a Texas and Louisiana accent, or a Virginia and Kentucky accent. You don't see Confederate flags flying in Pennsylvania, nor the "10 commandments" on many public buildings in New Jersey. Again, not as drastic as European countries, but not trivial either. Dennis - 2¢ 22:06, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Especially if they are from Belgium. We have counties in Montana bigger than Belgium! Montanabw^(talk) 19:44, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

This is true, but he is well travelled, all over Europe, married a Filipino woman, has been all over the world via plane. I've been to Belgium, nice place, wonderful food, and yes, but yes, the size of a good cattle ranch ;) Dennis - 2¢ 20:02, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Yet I've never seen someone use the phrase "India-centric" in the sense that they use "US-centric", and India is a far bigger area, far bigger population and has many official languages. I think there is more to it than just size. - Sitush (talk) 19:04, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, there is the "from sea to shining sea" thing, and especially out west, it is a drive of two very long days or three more-normal days to get anywhere that English is not the first language (other than a few isolated spots with either an Indian Reservation or a concentrated Hispanic community). But Sitush probably has an inkling there was that superpower thing and the Cold War. When I was a kid, we actually got taught in school that the USA was the "only free country in the world." We freely admit that we have a pretty good case of exceptionalism here. we don't admit that we also are the only nation in the world that actually did nuke another country - it was WWII and no one knew what the result would be, but still, probably is a factor! Montanabw^(talk) 19:44, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Sitush, I'm not saying that is all there is to it. I meet people who have never wandered outside their own county (30km x 30km typical), and will jump up and down about how "them mexicans is taking our jobs!". They don't represent all of us. And I've met people like myself who are well travelled within the US and have bothered to learn a great deal about the US, but have little experience outside the US. I mean, if I drive 3500k west, I'm still in the US, that was the point. I imagine India has the same. And to clear the record, India is much smaller than the US, 1/3rd the size in fact. [1]. Like I said, most people don't realize how large it is. Dennis - 2¢ 19:58, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

• Yes, that's my students you're talking about. Imagine what an eye opener it is for many of them if I take them on the annual Sigma Tau Delta trip--the kids that got lucky enough to come to Portland (OR), for instance. Drmies (talk) 20:53, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh yeah, but Americans are bigger and better than everybody at everything right? :-)? ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:16, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

That's true. And we're more humble. Ironically, my introduction to Stephen Fry was due to watching Stephen Fry in America. Excellent documentary, and I love that London taxi he drove all over. I've found myself seeking out documentaries by him to watch. WilliamH used to point me to all kinds of interesting British documentaries, before he became fed up and retired. Dennis - 2¢ 20:26, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Mea culpa, Dennis: that's what happens when I descend into hyperbole :( I do, though, sometimes think that the US tradition of isolationism is a current that still runs deep in its society, despite numerous interventionist government forays abroad since WW2. Anyway, the standard comparative round these parts is Wales (the country, not the god-king): the population of X is five times that of Wales, the area of Y is 12 times that of Wales; the amount of rain this year in Z is one-millionth of that in Wales, etc. I suppose some might use Belgium rather than Wales - in the spirit of Montanabw's comment above - but square kilometres/miles and so on? Pah! (I'm off to look at that list now and work out how many Wales = one US.) - Sitush (talk) 20:37, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Nubar Gulbenkian, the oil magnate, used to be chauffeured round London in his own black cab. He appreciated the versatility of the thing, rather as Fry does. He was once asked why he preferred his cab to a Rolls-Royce and said, "They tell me it can turn on a sixpence, whatever a sixpence may be." Ah, the lives of the rich! - Sitush (talk) 20:37, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

• I think the long and the short of all of this is, yeah, Sitush will be streaming the showdown between LSU and Alabama next weekend. Someone has to: I'll be at a conference--&$%$%^*^&*)*(&$%^&*. Drmies (talk) 20:56, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

• It is more likely I'll be feasting on a dodo ;) Can't you stream at a conference? - Sitush (talk) 21:03, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

• It's a really small conference, Sitush, and I'm reading a paper. (Plus, they're all medievalists so they come from fancy Yankee schools...) It would be incredibly rude, though I suppose as a Dutchman I can claim cultural difference. Drmies (talk) 21:21, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Drimes, sorry to butt in with something as boring as content creation, but do you think anyone at said conference could get a hold of a few images of the Draco Normannicus? I am currently working on creating an article on it. Darkness Shines (talk) 21:44, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm an admin--that's below me. Drmies (talk) 22:34, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Nubar Gulbenkian and Stephen Fry may appreciate them, but anyone who remembers the experience of sitting behind a FX4 belching stinking fumes and screeching like a wounded animal will likely be less inclined to consider them a "design classic". There's a reason London got rid of the things. (I do not share the universal love Wikipedia seems to feel for Stephen Fry and suspect Eric doesn't either, given his propensity for plagiarising from us. On one episode of QI he even lifted the exact awkward wording from Tarrare, which ironically I'd used in the first place to avoid the appearance of close-paraphrasing.) And Dennis/Drmies, I take it you do understand just how peculiar the phrase "televised college football" sounds to anyone outside the US? (As, indeed, does the concept of a footballer at college in the first place…) – iridescent 09:36, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Haha, yes, great observation, although footballers are paid far more than university scholars and educated folk!♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:27, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Hey! leave our Stephen alone - don't you know he's a National Treasure? (and before you say it - no! that doesn't mean he should be stuffed and mounted). QI is one of the best programmes on TV. I mean, where else would you be shown on TV how to make a dildo? Every time I watch QI I find that loads of things I thought I knew are wrong. Then I can watch the repeats some time later and get the answers wrong all over again. Anyway, don't you know that that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? :-) And as for the college football - I should think that televising the Oxford and Cambridge Boat Race must seem as odd to the rest of the world. Richerman (talk) 17:59, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

People with mobility problems I presume (they got rid of them here for that reason). High-roofed Fiat Doblo seems to be the choice for many taxi drivers now. Not cool enough for celebrities- looks like a Popemobile. I got one. It fluffs up bigger than an urban Landrover at the traffic light derby. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 10:15, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Just popping in to confirm my agreement with Sitush initial position, Neotarf brings so much more problems to the tables then the one (or none) that is there but if completely ignored it mitigates it a little. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 12:01, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Magna Carta

This article from the Observer points out that it will be the 800th anniversary of the signing of the Magna Carta next year (15 June 2015) and suggests there will be various TV and radio programmes (and books etc) to coincide with the significant date. I note this article regularly gets 150,000+ page views per month and this is likely to increase. It was listed as a Good Article back in the early days but was delisted in 2006 and has gone downhill since then. It is also listed on the Vital Articles for Society and Social Sciences. Would you (or any of your talk page stalkers) be interested in helping to get it to at least GA or even FA standard before the anniversary?

I'll have to wait until I see what ArbCom comes up with in the GGTF circus. Eric Corbett 22:00, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Actually the Runnymede article is in a pretty poor state too. Although it only gets less than 6,000 hits a month it is important as the place where the Magna Carta was sealed and it may be of more interest to our American friends with the JFK memorial on ground given as a gift to the United States and the Urban H. Broughton memorial. Richerman (talk) 19:50, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Firework Code

With the exception of a couple of obvious points that hardly need proving, there's nothing in the text that didn't come from one of the references already mentioned. As for the essay issue, I presume that's for the use of 'common sense', which I don't think it would be too hard to prove is the expert view of a phrase like 'stand well back' and the others. In fact, one of the BIS sources actually says it's all common sense, but it's necessary because that's exactly how people get injured on Guy Fawkes Night etc, by lacking basic common sense. But by all means, if you think the article is improved by removing that, go ahead. As such, if there's nothing I've missed (and apologies, it's pretty hard to tell even from those specifically worded tags what you're actually complaining about), then I'm minded to remove them. Firework bob (talk) 02:10, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

• Your sourcing consists of a PDF of a "media toolkit" and a flyer with one single page of bullet points. The only secondary sourcing is a newspaper article from 1971 without page numbers. Besides, I'm not sure what "safety message" really means here, though I'm sure that Eric, who's been known to light it up here and there, knows that better than me. If it just means "little piece of paper with voluntary guidelines so you don't blow your hand off", then notability comes into question. Drmies (talk) 02:50, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

• If you remove them I'll simply put them back, and if you don't address the issue than I'll nominate this article for deletion. Eric Corbett 12:57, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

  Ah, I see I'm late to the party. The article has already been deleted and Firework bob blocked. Eric Corbett 13:16, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

• You can't take credit for chasing this one off, Mr. Corbett: it was a regular old CU block. Drmies (talk) 23:15, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

• I'm trying to give off a look of utter shock, but I can't muster it. Dennis - 2¢ 13:50, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

  I actually think it might be possible to write a decent article on the Firework Code, but that wasn't it. Eric Corbett 14:28, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

• I got some fireworks on my talk page, apparently: look at the history. Some proxy-using idiot at work. Sitush, thanks for helping with cleanup. Drmies (talk) 15:13, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Dare I ask who Firework Bob was a sockpuppet for? Parrot of Doom 15:21, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Only Courcelles knows, he did the CUblock, in a way that seems to be intentionally denying recognition. Having conversed with the sock at RFPP, it was easy to see this wasn't his 2nd or 3rd sock, and there was an arrogance about him that only comes with experience. Dennis - 2¢ 15:56, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

• I wondered about creating a "Firework Code" article, but the main point would have to be that there is no such one thing, in contrast to Highway Code or Countryside code: umpteen different organisations (ROSPA, fire brigades, councils etc), each list something they call "The Firework Code", but they're all different. (OK, undoubtedly a lot match, but I didn't spot any on a quick Google: number of bullet points seems to be about 9-14). Still could be an interesting little article: when was the term first sighted? Is the concept unique to UK (minus NI) because we have the tradition of back garden fireworks and also Health&Safety? etc. No time for it right now. Busy week with fireworks (a) at my late Mother's care-home where I'm on the "Friends" (preceded by hotpot supper and sticky toffee pudding), (b) in back lane of our terrace of houses (annual social event of the year for the occupants of the 9 houses), and (c) at the pub, on 3 different nights. And right now a Christmas cake to take out of oven. PamD 17:54, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

  Another important aspect to cover would the background of the need for a code, number of firework-related accidents before and since its introduction for instance. For myself, although I've bought quite a few boxes of fireworks I've never bothered to read the code; I just read the instructions on the firework. Sometimes. Eric Corbett 18:03, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

• If it is a non-UK centric article, here is a worthwhile source that has some info about this side of the pond.[2] Codes vary by state/county/city here, and often will depend on whether there is a drought in an area. If at all possible, work in the Bart Simpson phrase "Tijuana toilet cracker", which is most like referring to an M80, which is (supposedly) large enough to blow a toilet off its foundation when lit and flushed. They are illegal in the US but is potentially available across the border in Mexico. Probably no encyclopedic value, but I just love the name. Dennis - 2¢ 18:12, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

  One of my pet hates is those generic articles constructed as lists: Firework code in the US; Firework code in the UK ... Eric Corbett 18:31, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

The code was brought in around 1970, I would have a look on Hansard to see if it was debated around that time. For instance. Parrot of Doom 18:14, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Also look for a Firework Safety Code, as debated here Parrot of Doom 18:17, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

• Satan is getting rebuffed again: "If then His providence / Out of our evil seek to bring forth good, / Our labour must be to pervert that end, / And out of good still to find means of evil." Drmies (talk) 18:53, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Today being election day, I could make a joke out of that quote pretty quickly. I did my part, voted and now going to get drunk due to depression over my choices. I live in the district with Thom Tillis running against Kay Hagan. We haven't seen a soap or car commercial in 6 months, just commercials of these two calling each other asshats, over and over and over..... The most expensive Senate race in history, over $100 million [3], which explains the non-stop commercials. I have never seen a political race this vicious in my life. Dennis - 2¢ 21:42, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

    Not even RfA? Eric Corbett 21:52, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

    • Being a Brit, I can forgive you for not being familiar with our politics, but RFA wouldn't have been on this things radar. You Brits know nasty politics as well as us yanks (and watching the House of Commons go at it on the floor is comedy gold sometimes), but this wasn't great, nor grand, it was Epic. With a capital E, plus mushroom clouds, hammer of Thor, cinematic music and everything. They truly went nuclear. In the US, if you are running for office, pretty much no libel/slander law can touch you. You can pretty much get away with calling your opponent a pedophile if you are both running for office, all under the 1st Amendment. You never, ever see lawsuits won, or even filed over false claims, the courts will kick them out. Dennis - 2¢ 22:03, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
      • Sorry, Dennis--for something to be "epic" there has to be something at stake, something important and honorable. Drmies (talk) 15:15, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
        • When did "money and power" cease to be enough? Dennis - 2¢ 16:16, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
      • Put another way: Imagine you ran for RFA and they suspended all civility and NPA rules for a week. You still aren't in the same neighborhood. THAT is how nasty this thing got. Dennis - 2¢ 22:08, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

        I have run for RfA, and all civility and NPA rules were suspended for a week. You can have no idea how irritating it is to be repeatedly called "immature" by a bunch of spotty kids who're yet to leave home and find a job. Eric Corbett 22:11, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

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Serious question

I am not trying to antagonize you or push your button. I mean this seriously and in friendship. Please take it that way.

There are lots of debates about your civility. Some (I think including you) say your behavior is not uncivil. Others say it is uncivil, but your contributions outweigh any problems (and in any case, other's issues/drama are more important). Some say you are uncivil and not worth it.

Heres the question : Regardless of your own position on that question, you agree those are the opinions out there right? Do you know the stuff that you do that some identify as a problem? Is that stuff so integral to your Eric-ness that you could not exist/participate with out it? (Or worded another way, could you realistically choose to not do those things?)

Again, regardless of your own opinion, or who is "right" about what is wrong with wikipedia - if the alternative is getting indeffed (which as an outsider seems like a strong possibility), why not do a mea culpa and toe the line so your good contributions can continue? Gaijin42 (talk) 15:39, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Why don't you mind your own business, and I'll worry about mine? Eric Corbett 15:41, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Sigh. Because the line is wrong? Why should some people have to bow to the shout-y rabble who contribute little here? And that includes Jimbo. Honestly, Gaijin, as much as you might mean well your very first paragraph indicates that you realise this is likely to backfire on you. Why poke, however well-intentioned? - Sitush (talk) 15:44, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Is that you, Nurse Ratched? Parrot of Doom 15:51, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The line may be wrong. I specifically mentioned the others issues/drama position as one of the possibilities (where I was implying Jimbo and some of the others involved). My point was is taking a stand over where the line is worth getting banned? Because that seems to be the result, regardless of if its right or wrong. It certainly could be that Eric does feel it is worth it. If so more power/props to him for standing by his convictions. In any case, I'll bow out now. My intent honestly wasn't to poke here, and I'm sorry it backfired. Gaijin42 (talk) 15:55, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Your concern is very touching, but I'm not going to discuss this with you or with anyone else. Eric Corbett 15:59, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Wouldn't your efforts be better used elsewhere Gaijin42? You know, on that little known thing called an encyclopaedia? I appreciate that this comes secondary to incivility hunters like yourself. Cassianto^talk 19:23, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Hey, play nice please. Gaijin is one of the good ones. Their efforts here may be misguided, but Cassianto, they're not an "incivility hunter". Gaijin, you'll have to understand that your message, while well-intended, can be perceived as a bit patronizing. Thanks, and enjoy the (properly coded) GFN fireworks, Drmies (talk) 23:13, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Drmies. Eric and I have made up offline, but I do certainly see how my attempt above could be mistaken for baiting and being patronizing. Gaijin42 (talk) 23:20, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

See, you are one of the good ones. Oh! Eric! This reminds me--I showed the girls the Dead Parrot sketch the other day. They thought it was funny, so there's still hope for mankind. I don't think they really got the Ipswich/Boulton bit, but hey. It's deep. Actually, I have a student from Boulton in my class this semester: he can't seem to pronounce the letter "t". I mentioned to him I know lots of smart people in Manchester but he didn't believe me. Drmies (talk) 00:41, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

That would be Bolton. At least on WP, many from there seem not to like people from Manchester. Actually, a lot of people on WP who are not from Bolton have the same apparent problem. - Sitush (talk) 00:44, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

The T seems to be disappearing from British English amongst the younger generation - I think it's called the glottal stop? So a lot of kids say they have a "compu'er" they got from a "ca'ologue". My kids tried talking like that when they were at secondary school but they didn't get away with it at home - the only problem was the other kids at school thought they were a bit posh. Personally, I find it difficult to pronounce words without the T sound. Some years ago I met some cockney football fans in Manchester who asked me how to get to Bowen (with the O pronounced as in wow) - it took me a bit to work out they were looking for Bolton. Richerman (talk) 01:54, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Like in here. Yes, Richerman, you are correct: what you signal is called Glottalization and if that was a gut feeling of yours, about the younger speakers, your gut is in fine shape: "In urban dialects in Britain glottalization has spread and is common in the speech of young adults." Drmies (talk) 02:19, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

During my lifetime it seems always to have been common to people from the rougher parts of Salford (which traditionally was most of it, outside Worsley and bits of Brough'on etc). That set me in good stead for the expansion you refer to: lipreading people who use the glo'al stop can be a nigh'mare but I was exposed to it from a young age. Thinking about it, does the same apply to dropping the "g"? - Sitush (talk) 06:24, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand why they do it, though. Here in the US, there's a sports talk radio personality that calls Peyton Manning "Pey-on Manning" and it just drives me crazy. How is it hard to say "Peyton"? Tex (talk) 14:58, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, with kids I think its a deliberate attempt to speak like their friends to fit in and sound cool and with some people, as they get older they never learn to speak properly. Funny thing is I hear my daughter now correcting her children when they speak like that. I always used to wonder why kids always seemed to gravitate towards the the lowest common denominator in the way they speak, rather than the scallies learning to speak better. Then I heard a rather brilliant Jewish aphorism in a radio play: "If you drag your sleeve in the dirt, the dirt never gets sleevy". :-) Richerman (talk) 15:23, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

• Having now discussed this posting with Gaijin here's a brief summary. Gaijin was concerned that I was about to be banned as a result of the GGTF ArbCom case, which isn't beyond the bounds of possibility, and that prostrating myself before the great god Jimbo might in some way reduce my punishment for whatever crime I didn't commit. And to be fair he has a point, as ArbCom has a history of diverting cases to suit their agenda. Eric Corbett 00:57, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Eric is still here Gaijin so obviously he can't be that much of a problem, otherwise Jimbo would have used his "power" to have pushed a ban by now and would have concentrated on that, rather than mingling in with the London highflyers. Reality is that he needs Eric as a scapegoat for his campaign, he's a public speaker, not an encyclopedist at the end of the day..♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:14, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Small ping

I've made a couple suggestions at the Stoor worm GAN, you may want to review them and comment. Montanabw^(talk) 03:32, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Guy Fawkes Night

Hi,

It's really a tiny issue, and if you disagree then I shall leave it as it is, but I would say that grammatically there is a slight potential for confusion. As you start to read the sentence, it could (for example) potentially develop as follows: "Towards the end of the 18th century reports commissioned by the government, the reader may notice an anti-catholic sentiment".

Technically, in that case it would have to be a hyphenated "18th-century", as it's a compound adjective, but hopefully you get the idea.

Anyway, I'll leave it up to you.

Regards,

Arthur Holland (talk) 00:00, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

I think we ought to give our readers some credit for not being complete morons. Eric Corbett 00:10, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't think Rick Cook would agree with you - the universe's ability to generate morons is quite uncanny. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:49, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I'll leave it as it is then. However, for what it's worth, the sentence did (very briefly) confuse me for this reason when I was first reading it, and I don't believe I'm a moron. Arthur Holland (talk) 12:52, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't believe you're a moron either, I just don't see that a comma is necessary. Eric Corbett 13:10, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Rather revealing

I think the fact that there are still "100 accounts from British Newspaper Archive and hundreds for Highbeam, Questia, and JSTOR" on offer tells us all we need to know about the general lack of interest among too many so-called editors about creating content. Perhaps there's more of a quick adrenaline rush in civility policing? Eric Corbett 21:24, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Somewhat off topic but my biggest issue for the longest time was finding articles to write about and improve, and then basically learning how to edit and improve content. So I stuck to Vandalism fighting, NPP, and things like that. I guess I have you to thank for several years ago helping me through my first DYK and reviewing an article I had up for GA. In short you gave me the kick in the right direction and I thank you for that, Eric. --Church ^Talk 21:31, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Blimey! Jimbo Wales has a completely different view of me and my relationship with inexperienced editors. But then he does need a cause for his disciples to gather around, and I suppose I'm as good as any.

I'm pleased to see you taking an interest in the Doctor, but sadly the main author was banned a few years ago. Maybe together we can address your issues? Eric Corbett 21:38, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

If you have an interest in American Football (Which I believe you've said in the past you don't) feel free to take a look at Aaron Rodgers, I'm in the process of sourcing the Achievements and Awards section. Slowly but surely mind you, but I'm getting there. --Church ^Talk 21:47, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Just on a quick look, there's way too much detail in there, more like a biography than an encyclopedia article. It's hard to trim your own stuff, I know, but it badly needs trimming. Eric Corbett 21:55, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

I didn't write half of it, so to me it's harder to go about trimming it but I'll definitely give it a look. Thanks!--Church ^Talk 21:57, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

JSTOR has been a godsend to me, my only misfortune is to have had an extremely busy year with work. I just haven't had time to do much here of late. There are so many topics to write about too, like the Cadaver Synod for instance. Parrot of Doom 21:49, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Doesn't "extremely busy" = "loadsa money"? Doesn't sound like a misfortune to me. Eric Corbett 21:55, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

I love that picture in the lead of the Cadaver Synod BTW. Only the Catholic Church could come up with a hoot like that. Eric Corbett 22:00, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Well put it this way: I haven't had to worry about paying bills this year. In fact I'm very content with life right now. I'm only concerned that I'll forget everything I've read about that baby farming business and that that lapse in memory will make finishing the article difficult. I agree about the Synod image, but there are all kinds of Catholic relics knocking about that are just like that - skulls, bits of skin, etc. Just look at Oliver Plunkett's head. Nutters, all of them. Parrot of Doom 22:42, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Strangely enough the thing that really sorted my finances out was being made redundant in the early 1990s. I got a pretty generous package and subsequently made about three times as much money contracting as I had by being employed, including from the company that thought they could easily do without me. Turned out that they couldn't. A bit like Wikipedia in a way perhaps. Eric Corbett 00:00, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

To be fair these are new accounts they're offering - all the ones they had before were taken up in a couple of days. I've had my name down for over three months for a BNA account and I'm still waiting. I've just put my name down for a JSTOR account now some more are available. Richerman (talk) 22:45, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps it's good news then if JSTOR/BNA have made more accounts available, as maybe they're seeing some benefit in the links. Eric Corbett 23:17, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Richerman, the problem with BNA access is that you'll get distracted. Old news is so much more interesting than today's news. I spent hours and hours following up something that has no bearing on WP but which I happened on because of a WP-related search. It concerned umpteen thousand bottles of wine and spirits being auctioned from what is now Nazareth House in Prestwich. The owner - who was very well connected to the Philips family - had died and the estate was being broken up. Between his cellars and those of his mate across the road at the Woodthorpe, they probably could have kept the entire district in booze for months. - Sitush (talk) 01:23, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh, I know all about that Sitush - I used to have access when I worked at Salford Uni. If my employers had known how much time I spent on there they wouldn't have been too happy. Richerman (talk) 16:37, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

HighBeam and Questia aren't new, we just had a lot of accounts to begin with. A smaller partnership that might interest some here is Adam Matthew, and there's a few other accounts available here and there not on the big promo list. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:32, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

• In from the pub, see section header, was hoping for burlesque but got this, shit. Darkness Shines (talk) 23:20, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

• I've been waiting for BNA access for ages. It's a time sink, but for Wikipedians working on any UK articles, a bloody useful one. Everybody should be scrambling for access left, right and centre. Oh, Eric, redundancies these days are not as nice, you basically get "Knock, knock!" "Who's there?" "Not you anymore, here's your paypacket and a map to the job centre, now as Anne Robinson once put it, you are the weakest link, goodbye!" Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:47, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

  Depends on who you work for I suppose. I even got to keep my company car and fuel card! Eric Corbett 13:07, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

On a related note, I can't believe that Anne Robinson's article has had a tag against her being an alcoholic for three years. @John:, you're our resident BLP expert, is there anything else that should be nuked from there? I dare say there are sources that we could use, but what's in the article now doesn't really pass muster. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:23, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. I made some judicious cuts. --John (talk) 16:19, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

That's a "you are the weakest link, goodbye" to that then!♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:30, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

main page mirth

Usually articles I've worked on that are on the main page are pretty quiet vandal-wise...but pelican is proving pretty lively (novelty factor at present...but i suspect will wear off soon...) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:12, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

William Beach Thomas FAC

I've got the book now and the quote is on p. 283. I'm not sure how best to format the citation. Orwell's review has a fantastic final sentence: "The book ends with a plea for the preservation and revival of rural England, with which everyone can agree even while suspecting that Sir William's ideal picture of rural England might contain too many rabbits and not enough tractors." - Sitush (talk) 15:51, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Norah Wilmot

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:06, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Florence Nagle

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:04, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Looking mighty impressive now! A great collaboration! Expand the lede and it should at least pass GA I think with a few more edits.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:45, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Stoor worm

The article Stoor worm you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Stoor worm for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Montanabw -- Montanabw (talk) 08:42, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I wonder if we can teach the bot to know that it appeared on DYK. We can't teach the bot to know that it was a pleasure to review. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:52, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Feminists required

Sorry Eric for using your page for blatant publicity, but I thought one or two of the women (one dare not say ladies these days) who lurk here may want to expand this stub which I've just started. Fascinating woman - a feminist who actually made a useful difference to the world. I perchanced on her a few days ago. Her face was certainly not her fortune, and her husband was a bad lot who gambled and drank all their money, and she, I suspect, was a difficult old trout (horsey women usually are) - so that's a treble whammy to endear her to our feminist colleagues. So any help expanding this to at DYK standard of GA would be greatly appreciated. Giano (talk) 18:39, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

AHEM!!!?!?! "A difficult old trout? (horsey women usually are)" **cough, cough ** Montanabw^(talk) 22:35, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Good old Florence! That would make a nice little DYK for someone after a little bit of expansion. Eric Corbett 19:12, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Well, that is certainly a name I'm familiar with - Florence Nagle was a very well known dog breeder. She also successfully challenged The Kennel Club about its male only memberships! She bred Irish Wolfhounds under the Sulhamstead affix. I should be able to look out some information about her but I'm pretty tied up for about a week; hopefully someone can make a good start on it though! SagaciousPhil - Chat 19:10, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Are we sure it's the same Florence Nagle? Her ODNB entry doesn't mention anything about dog breeding. She must have had a obituary printed though, so that would be worth looking for ... after stoor worm. Eric Corbett 19:19, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

• I think the worm's about done now ... SagaciousPhil - Chat 06:15, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Yep, it's all here. Funnily enough when you google her name it says at the bottom "Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. Learn more". They must be accepting requests from beyond the grave now. Richerman (talk) 19:29, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

All that dog breeding stuff is an amazing omission from the ODNB entry. Eric Corbett 19:40, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

She does have a full biography, but it's out of print and looks to be quite pricey. – iridescent 19:33, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

There's lots in the BNA and this. I think the GM project can claim Florence! J3Mrs (talk) 19:42, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

You mean this? - a snip at £999 for a used copy. Richerman (talk) 19:50, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

And they've got the bloody cheek to ask for £2.80 delivery on top! Eric Corbett 19:56, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

I might be able to get a copy of that ... not sure but will make enquiries as soon as I can. SagaciousPhil - Chat 20:07, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Well I was going to buy it but I'm not paying that for postage. Richerman (talk) 20:17, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

You just made my weekend! TYVM Keri (talk) 00:13, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I saw the reasonably priced bio, they are currently doing it two for one in Tesco. However, I have an article about her from Stud and Stable from sometime in the early 1970s - she was doggy too. I'm looking for it as we speak. Giano (talk) 20:24, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

PS: You can see her in the flesh (in a manner of speaking) here. There's something about her walk which reminds me of my beloved aunt. 20:34, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

She rather reminds me of one of those old eccentric aunts in the Just William books.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:45, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

It's v interesting that the ODNB says that the Jockey Club took legal advice and capitulated after she threatened legal action - so that's what I originally wrote in our article, but the Stud and Stable Magazine (I found it this morning) states that the Jockey Club blocked her in the High Court, and then gives damning quote about the Jockey Club from two highly respected Law Lords following a successful appeal in the Appeal Court. The ODNB seems to have a very sanitised and limited version of her life - perhaps it was written by a Steward of the Jockey Club? Giano (talk) 08:48, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

The ODNB article does indeed seem to be rather limited, I'm sure we can do better than that. Eric Corbett 10:22, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

She was quite a prominent dog breeder in the 1930s, I've added a fair bit on what I could find.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:41, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

I think we the much maligned members of Eric's "coterie" have discovered one of the greatest and most unsung members of the British feminism. Jimbo should give us all barnstars for this. Giano (talk) 15:59, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Or perhaps the Gender Gap Task Force Mind the Gap award? 71.11.1.204 (talk) 18:46, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

CaroleHenson, whom I helped out quite a lot in her fledgling days on Wikipedia, has just got Kate Millett passed as a GA. I was surprised to discover how poor that article was prior to Carole's involvement, given Millett's reputation as a feminist etc. We seem to have quite a few people shouting but not necessarily doing an awful lot where it really matters: casting aspersions about the alleged incivility, misogyny and driving away of editors by Eric (and his "wife"), myself and Mancunian contributors generally merely slows down the improvement of content. Thankfully, Carole is most definitely a content person, not a yakker, and I rather think that Millett might be suitable for a run at FAC before too long. I wonder if she qualifies for the GGTFMTG award? And if she would care? - Sitush (talk) 09:48, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Ah, the myth of the Manchester mafia. Carole sounds typical of the many female editors I encounter, or at least the many who are more interested in content than yakking about some alleged gender gap. Eric Corbett 10:00, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

I almost got confused with User:Carolmooredc then!! I was going to say I was surprised!♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:39, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Women with courage

As said before, Eric, you helped me to stay here, on 14 October 2012, supported by Neutralhomer, GFHandel, Worm That Turned, Wehwalt, Kumioko, 28bytes, RexxS, Nobody Ent, Jc37, HJ Mitchell, Boing! said Zebedee, Scottywong, Gilderien, John, me, Chedzilla and Dianna,

on 15 October supported also by Reyk, Drmies, Dr. Blofeld., Chris Cunningham, Sphilbrick, Floquenbeam, Keilana, Nathan Johnson, Montanabw, Mark Arsten and Churn and change, - thank you, all!

If my math and my assumptions about gender are right, that means 18 (2 of them women) + 11 (2 of them women) = 29 (4 of them women), in other words, you, Eric, leading a minority group with 13% women. Was there a single woman in the majority for a ban? I never had the heart to count. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:47, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

I get a lot of bad press here on WP about my alleged misogyny, but really I love women. I even married one. She's a PhD with a brain the size of a planet; I find brainy women so ... exciting? Tits and bums and so on are all well and good, but when you choose a partner for life there has to be a little bit of spark. Eric Corbett 06:01, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Tell your wildflower-loving wife that she chose well ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:13, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Did you now ... that Belinda Nash researched the history of the Witch of Pungo for decades? - Teh witch from the town with a witches' tower as a landmark, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:01, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

That's a nice little starter article Gerda, well done! It's interesting how one thing leads to another ... I'm sure there must be a lot more to be said about her as well.

At this interminable GGTF ArbCom case I've just been accused in the last few hours of being "contemptuous" towards women. Have you ever felt that I was contemptuous towards you? Or even contemptuous towards women in general? I've always prided myself on being what Dennis Brown described as an "equal opportunity offender", in that I don't give a rat's arse whether whoever I'm talking to is male or female. To my way of thinking, to do anything else would be both dishonest and offensive. Eric Corbett 20:20, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, missed the question. You are respectful to me, - if that changed I would ask myself if I changed. I like collaboration, like this peaceful scene, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:20, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Shakespearean insults

I was chatting to somebody about Shakespeare yesterday, and remembered reading A Midsummer Night's Dream at school, and very specifically the line "Get you gone, you dwarf, You minimus of hindering knotgrass made, You bead, you acorn!". Then I wondered if we had a modern equivalent of such creative writing. Well, after a long and fruitful search, I think I may have found it. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:32, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

One interesting thing about Shakespeare's writings is that modern translations often don't make sense, purely because the appropriate words have changed in spelling and pronunciation. Parrot of Doom 22:33, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

How about Macb........ er, the Scottish play? "The devil damn thee black thou cream-faced loon!" Richerman (talk) 23:19, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

@Bishonen: has (or had) a Shakespearean insult generator, but I'm running out the door and can't look for it. If curious, you should search her user or talk page, or ask her. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:24, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

You must mean Darwinbish's NPA template. Yep, it generates a fine variety of Shakespearean insults. Teach 'em a lesson! Bishonen | talk 23:58, 10 November 2014 (UTC).

I was wondering if Shakespearean insults are notable enough in their own right to merit a short article. I can't find an existing article where they really belong.--Boson (talk) 12:14, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

It would be interesting reading - at least until it got {{globalize}}d with sections on Shakespearean insults in Sweden, Japan, the Cook Islands etc. And of course the inevitable "in popular culture" section.
Then of course the Oxfordians would attempt to hijack the article resulting in far more drama than Bill (or Ted) ever produced pablo 13:02, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

a google books search makes me guess yes. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 13:05, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

A book search for "get you gone you dwarf" (Shakespeare's equivalent of "fuck off, you drama-whore") reveals quite a few hits discussing them in depth, so I dare say something like List of Shakespearean insults does have potential. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:07, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

"Thou naughty knave, what trade?" is one of my favourites!♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:20, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

I like this whole "your mum" exchange:

Demetrius: "Villain, what hast thou done?"
Aaron: "That which thou canst not undo."
Chiron: "Thou hast undone our mother."
Aaron: "Villain, I have done thy mother."

 pablo 13:42, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Like. Though where's all the Falstaff? Dogberry?--Two kinds of pork^Makin'_Bacon 14:15, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Or, "A sailor’s wife had chestnuts in her lap, and munched, and munched, and munched. "Give me," quoth I. "Aroint thee, witch!" the rump-fed runnion cries." In today's English, "This lass at the pub had a bag of pork scratchings, and was scoffing on them. "Lob one over here", I said. "Piss off, bitch", the fat bird replied." Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:22, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Oswald: What dost thou know me for?

Kent: A knave, a rascal, an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-liver’d, action-taking knave; a whoreson, glass-gazing, superserviceable, finical rogue; one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a bawd, in way of good service, and art nothing but the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pandar, and the son and heir of a mongrel bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition.

(King Lear, Act II, scene ii, ll 13-14) --Shirt58 (talk) 09:22, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Ask and ye shall receive (Montanabw^(talk) 22:44, 11 November 2014 (UTC)):

Come here and I'll point the spout at YOU!

Don't call names, you frothy common-kissing clotpole!

You have been noticed using opprobrious epithets. It's payback time from the Shakespeare Insult Generator! To activate the Insultspout and receive fresh insults, click here. Note that all insults generated by the Spout are guaranteed literary and cultured, unlike the nasty things you said, you impertinent dizzy-eyed hedge-pig.

• An NPA template, yes. (I linked to it above.) It doesn't work right this far down on a page, so better activate it here. Bishonen | talk 09:43, 13 November 2014 (UTC).

The Princess and the Pea

one of the things that make this story so appealing and relatable is that optimism prevails over pessimism

The set that "that optimism prevails over pessimism" id a member of is "the things that make this story so appealing and relatable". If the set was "the things", the sentence would read "one of the things is that optimism prevails over pessimism".--Klausok (talk) 07:05, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Look, I really couldn't care less at the moment. If you want to further distress the article then just go ahead. It really won't look out of place among the rest of WP's crap after all. Eric Corbett

"Without a hard heart, you can't survive here." (9 April). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:57, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

@Klausok: I hate to "play the fanboy", but I agree with Eric per his rationale in the edit summary. Worse things happen at sea, y'know. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:01, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

As a courtesy (though it's not going to come across as courteous)

Please see this. - Dank (push to talk) 05:47, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

• Dank, I made a note there, but removing or hatting that might be best, then filing at ANI if you feel it need adjudication. Otherwise, it might look like you are trying to sway the discussion using evidence that was not admitted in the case. And that is not the place to have a drama fest, ANI is. Dennis - 2¢ 05:50, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

  Dennis, you and a few others know why I've got no time for Dank's nonsense right now. And it's got absolutely nothing to do with the ridiculous ArbCom case, which I see is now proposing to ban me. No surprise there. Eric Corbett 05:57, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

  • It would feel like an Arb case without it. I haven't expressed an opinion on the merits, but on procedure, it is very, very clear that this must be filed at ANI, not in the middle of an Arb case that is about to end. Dennis - 2¢ 06:06, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

• • • I'm sorry Dank, but your procedure is wrong here and has prejudicial effects. I don't expect to get involved since I hatted, but you should file at ANI. We do NOT need that kind of drama on that page, which is already contentious enough. Dennis - 2¢ 06:15, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

To be honest, filing an ANI report about Eric right now, regardless of circumstances or procedures, is guaranteed to get a pack of drama-vultures swooping down for the entertainment, and hence is about as sensible for one's own well being as mooning in front of Jimbo giving him the middle finger, and would probably get a similar result. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:59, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

• Please see my apology [4]. Dennis - 2¢ 16:44, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Ince Blundell Hall

Eric. Do you think that this article on a Grade II* listed former country house, until recently overlooked, is worth a go at GAN? If so I should welcome your comments and help with copyediting. Best wishes, --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 09:11, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

I think that would make a fine GA Peter. Eric Corbett 11:20, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 13:09, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Nominated yesterday, and passed in less than 24 hours! Many thanks for the part you played. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 17:03, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Copyeditng of Constitution of May 3, 1791

In reference to the request from Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Constitution of May 3, 1791/archive4 (June that year), I wonder if you would have more time/will to look at this article? I would like to resubmit to FAC, but I am afraid the deputy director will veto it again unless you or John c/e it (since those are two names he mentioned, and c/e by what is at that point about half a dozen of other editors was not good enough for him...). I'd appreciate your assistance in this matter. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:18, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

You may want to ask John, as it appears quite within the bounds of possibility that I may soon be consigned to the "infinite Hell" that is a site ban, so I don't have much time or patience for WP right now. Eric Corbett 15:26, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

I do hope you are exaggerating. I find it hard to believe that you would be site-banned. Giano (talk) 16:27, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

He's not exaggerating: [5] Four votes in favor, one oppose, two abstensions. Not looking good. Montanabw^(talk) 19:51, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

No, but I'm quite resigned to the outcome whatever it may be. I'll live. Que sera, sera. Eric Corbett 19:56, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

• Oh well, it will give the Jimbos and other sanctimonious nonentities of this world something to sing, dance and gloat about, but I can't help but wonder who will be writing the project while they are doing so. Doubtless we will be told it's now to be written by all those poor, hapless and wretched souls and timid females who Eric's driven away, but I have yet to see any proof of their existence. Perhaps Eric's detractors now think that the meek are truly to inherit the earth. God knows they've been waiting long enough. I do wish I could be an American idealist - but of course, I don't really - that woudl be hypocritical. Giano (talk) 20:05, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Fuck 'em. I'm sure, in their own little world, they'll believe they've done something worthwhile, but it'll be quite clear to everyone else that they've broken their own rules. WP:NOTHERE, remember? Black Kite (talk) 02:43, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Seraphimblade's pretty pink hat

[6] [7] Nothing surprises me about these people any more. Writegeist (talk) 18:20, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Wow, that's not good but is probably typical for this farce of a proceedings. RogerDavis has made at least one pretty incomprehensible vote today. It seems that he finds nothing at all wrong with Carol's efforts. Amazing, especially given that even GW seems to find some merit in the f.o.f.. - Sitush (talk) 18:35, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

• I rather think that you will find that the order "Get Eric at all costs" has been issued, and the minions and staff have to scurry about to ensure that the order is executed. In time the sorry facts of this episode will be leaked and we shall all see for ourselves. Giano (talk) 13:20, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

• I had deposited with a third party some criticisms relating to handling of the case. I did that towards the end of the evidence workshop phase with the intention of perhaps offering them for scrutiny after the case was closed. I chose a third party so that I could not be accused of sour grapes whatever the outcome might be. Alas, the weirdness has extended considerably since that time and I may have to take the risk of such an accusation. I've had little to do with ArbCom, bar being dragged into an earlier case without merit. I generally do not keep track of their activities but this thing has been an eye-opener, and not one that reflects well on the institution. - Sitush (talk) 13:35, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

  But on the other hand it reflects accurately on the institution. Eric Corbett 13:50, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, indeed it does... I have had a growing sense of bad times to come for some time now. What a shame. Gandydancer (talk) 15:06, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you

Eric, I just wanted to let you know that, regardless of how the ArbCom case turns out, I appreciate your terrific content contributions to this encyclopedia. I doubt you even know who I am, but it's hard not to know who you are, and I think that a silent majority truly does appreciate what you do. I just wanted to take a moment to say thank you, and offer my condolences on the loss of your cat. All the best, and God bless. Go Phightins! 15:37, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I keep expecting to see her jump onto the window sill and demand to be let in, but alas ... Eric Corbett 15:41, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

And I'll chip in with similar sentiments - I don't know the timescale within which Arbcom might come to a decision and, if it's the wrong decision, close down this page. I just wanted to say that since our first very civilised encounter in 2007 it's been a pleasure to work with you here at the encyclopedia, and it'll be a poorer place if you're gone. Thanks for all your contributions. And condolences on Amy's death - life's unfair. PamD 15:55, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm signing off for the night now, so will say Adieu. These things are usually wound up pretty swiftly, and in the case of European editors, most often while Europe is asleep - the knock on the door in the night is something I believe which is favored by many totalitarian states. It's been fun working with you - I wonder who's going to maintain all those articles, let alone create new ones. Very disappointing. So in case you're not here tomorrow - so long. What a waste. Giano (talk) 21:37, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Given the singular absence of clerks during most of the proceedings, if they suddenly spring into action less than 24 hours after final votes have been cast, I'll be extremely pissed off. - Sitush (talk) 21:40, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

They won't. But returning to my earlier musing about Amy jumping up onto to window sill and demanding to be let in, might that be the origin of the vampire myth, that they come tapping at your window but can't enter until you open it? Or am I thinking of ArbCom? Eric Corbett 22:00, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I am pretty ignorant about myths etc. I sort of skipped the fairy tale phase because no-one realised I was deaf at that point. My parents wasted hours telling me tales, singing tunes and reading from books. Their early attempts to bollock me didn't go too well either ;) - Sitush (talk) 22:06, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Forgive me if this is too personal a question, but how old were you when your parents realised you were deaf? Eric Corbett 22:15, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I think they realised quite early on, say by the age of two. But getting a diagnosis took me to within weeks of starting school at five. The problem was, then as now, I'm very capable of fooling people into thinking that either there is no problem or the problem is something else. In that initial instance, the experts reckoned I was just a slow developer and a naughty child who chose not to do as he was asked etc. I'd already taught myself to lipread, you see. - Sitush (talk) 22:21, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Hey, Eric, it has its uses! I always hear someone who asks me would I like a pint but when someone says "it's your round", well, I never hear that ;) - Sitush (talk) 22:25, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello Eric. This page somehow ended up on my watchlist (probably because I keep an eye on ArbCom cases), and I thought I'd comment. (Like Go Phightins!, I'm also pretty sure that you have never heard about me.) While I honestly do not agree with the way you have sometimes communicated with other users in the past, it is impossible to deny the existence of the great content that you have created, and I would like to thank you for that. I'm also sorry about the death of your cat. Regards, --Biblioworm 22:48, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. It's pretty tough having to collect your dead cat from the side of the road. Eric Corbett 23:54, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

If I don't talk to you between now and the time they twist the knife, please update me on the two new ladies in your life. Ironic timing, I've been planning an extended wikibreak for some time, right after vote. I may start going up to the weekly open jam night at the local pub. Very cool place, they only sell beer brewed regionally, they have pot lucks and the like. you would approve. I'm actually a respectable blues guitarist, enough to keep up with the young bucks and teach them a thing or two. I need to be reminded what life is about. Drink a little, pick more, forget this place. See if it is possible to miss it. Dennis - 2¢ 02:02, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

• And I just noticed that a comment I made, directly relating to GGTF and why I haven't joined (being that I founded WER and it seems natural that I would), and GorillaWarfare, who was eager to ban you, shut down the whole thread. [8]. Well, not the whole thread, just that section. I actually got a thank you notification from that. From a woman. No wonder I avoided most of that case, knowing I wouldn't be listened to anyway. Dennis - 2¢ 03:17, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

• I challenged GW about a bit of her hatting spree. It seemed, um, a bit one-sided. - Sitush (talk) 03:19, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

  I've watched that clusterf--- from the sidelines, and I'm convinced that the arbs voting to ban Eric accepted the case mainly to that end. LHM^{ask me a question} 03:23, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

• Time for an amusing cat story. A teacher on a warm island, in the middle of a warm sea, has a weakness for cats. They now have approximately 26, due to their pupils presenting them with any old cat that can be found on the island. Teaching contract runs out next year, and the teacher will return, with cats, sometime in June, on a plane whose animal storage area (or whatever it's called) has been reserved for the herd. Alternative was chartering a catamaran, but no-one makes lifejackets for cats. I've volunteered to drive the van back from the airport, just for the laughs basically, although my instructions are not to stack the cats, which is going to be a bit awkward. I'm sure there'll be room for yet another old cat, so if ******* ***** fancies a free vacation… Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 09:40, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Away

What's not to like?

It probably is not my place to say this but I'm going to do it anyway. I'm sure that Eric will bollock me if he sees fit. As intimated in a thread above, something has happened and he may well not be around for two or three days. It would be good if people gave him a bit of space. It has absolutely nothing to do with Wikipedia and it is only by chance that I have come to know of it. - Sitush (talk) 02:20, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Having been accused elsewhere of trying to avoid scrutiny by inventing some personal difficulty, let me simply say that my cat was knocked down and killed by a passing car. I know that might not seem like much to some, but it was to me. Eric Corbett 20:06, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm so sorry, Eric. In our thoughts. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:17, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Some people don't seem to understand how you can be upset about the death of an animal, but I don't understand them. Eric Corbett 20:22, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I understand, hopefully, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:27, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Understand totally, we have always had cats, and they are part of the family. Hope you and yours are OK Eric. Black Kite (talk) 21:05, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I was going to say things seemed quiet around here of late. Sorry to hear about that Eric.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:05, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I am sorry to hear of your loss Eric. We have had a couple of cats die of illness over the years and it is always a wrench. It was also my daughters' introduction to mortality and that was a difficult one to field; "Daddy, will I die one day?" Take care of yourself and your family, real life trumps Wikipedia every time. --John (talk) 21:13, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

We'll obviously all die one day, but she was only 18 months old. Anyway, I'm in danger of becoming maudlin here, so I'll say no more. Eric Corbett 21:25, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Most of us who have or have had pets will totally sympathise. We had Ron (yes he was ginger) the cat and expert mouser who was the friendliest cat we've ever owned. Disappeared suddenly in April and then turned up looking ill 2 days later. His bladder had blocked and he was in renal failure. He still purred when he saw me despite being in desperate straits, and I took him to the vet. Died just after surgery. My wife is still too upset to think about it much. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:48, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

For 10 years I had a stray cat that I had found in front of an abandoned building who was ultimately run down by a car on one of the few times I ever let her outside. I understand completely. John Carter (talk) 21:59, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Our cat was 5 when he died 3 years ago. My middle daughter was 3, and I was torn between telling her about mortality so early, and telling her a deliberate lie which she would hold against me in the future. In the end I went for honesty and said "Yes you will, though I hope you have a long and happy life first". She came straight back at me and asked "Will I suffer like [cat's name]?" (He had had a painful, debilitating and expensive illness for several months before he succumbed.) I almost burst into tears (I didn't know she even knew the word "suffer") and could only say "I hope not, but I can't guarantee it". She took it well and hasn't held it against me so far. It is too soon to say whether I did the right thing. Keep well, --John (talk) 23:56, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I know exactly how you feel, Eric. Last year my cat died aged 19 and I miss her curling up on my lap purring away nineteen to the dozen or miaowing incessantly at the sight of fresh chicken or ham. But 18 months is worse. Cats are friendly, loyal, trustworthy and NEVER support arbcom bans. My sympathies. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 00:08, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

We lost our dear little kitty to a car just a few weeks ago. Made a pretty poor 5th birthday present for his biggest fan (happened on the day). We later found out he'd endeared himself to our neighbours, solving one's fruit rat problem (explains why he sometimes left his dinner), and making friends with another's cat by having conversations through their front wire door.

Anyway, condolences. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 02:14, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

My condolences. We had a Maine Coon in the family. Lost her a few years ago. They give us a piece of their heart, and take a bit of ours when they go.→StaniStani 06:23, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

My condolences, also. We had to put down a cat 11 days ago; we've had him for 17 years, but his illnesses were getting worse, and we were giving medication to counteract the side-effects of medications counteracting the side-effects of the medication for his principle condition (inflammatory bowel syndrome), which he had had for about 5 years, after we had to put down his pack-mate. (All of our cats have been strays, so we don't know if they were litter-mates.) — Arthur Rubin (talk) 06:51, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Condolences from me. We had a stray who came to me 18 months ago and six months later got very ill. No explanation for her illness could be found so it was presumed inherited from its mother and slowly unveiled its ugliness. She was my best friend for those six short months and has not been replaced in spirit nor in pictures around the house. She will remain with us for a long time. — Wyliepedia 07:02, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Pets are family members. I feel for you. Writegeist (talk) 07:15, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Eric, I'm sorry for your loss. My dog was run over and killed by a car years ago so I understand it's rough. :( Pets do become like family members. — Cirt (talk) 19:52, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I may have said this before, hence my nickname on Stanistani's web site of "ferret boy", as if that's supposed to be some kind of an insult. But it doesn't matter how big or small they are, they're all lives with their own personalities just as we are, and it hurts when they have to go. Eric Corbett 20:11, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Eric. Words are always so empty when expressing condolences, but please accept the heartfelt meaning behind mine. I rescued a frail feral kitten who lived happily with me for 13 years. She was my breath and I was hers. Being feral, she only socialised with me and she was a faithful loving companion. At the first sign of suffering, I let her go over the rainbow bridge. I cannot imagine the pain of having one die unexpectedly and so young. My deepest sympathies. Fylbecatulous talk 20:27, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Our first cat, Icarus, was also feral, and became fiercely loyal. He'd follow us everywhere, even down to the local pub, where he'd sit under the table until it was time to go. Cats are more complex creatures than we give them credit for, and Amy was my friend. Eric Corbett 20:46, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

• I can't say I know exactly how you feel, but I know the pain from losing a furbaby who was as dear to you as my own flesh and blood. Having no children, I'm prone to getting extraordinarily close to my dogs, one of which worked with me daily for many years. You know the story, so I won't rehash it. Some people like pets, others don't. Then some people don't consider them pets, or things to be owned. They consider themselves lucky to have them as companions, they accept the responsibility as caretaker, and consider them family. I fall into that category. Nothing wrong with anyone not being like that, but unless you do, it is difficult to truly empathize with how deep the grieving is, why it feels like a piece of yourself has died with them. It is not a small thing, nor quickly forgotten. Dennis - 2¢ 20:50, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

  I needed to fill the space that Amy left behind, so we've now adopted two jet black adult cats from a local animal rescue, who I guarantee will have the best lives that cats could possibly ever have. Eric Corbett 21:04, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Nice one Eric! I am also an active rescuer of animals, with both of my dogs coming from the RSPCA with literally hours to spare on their lives. Rescuing animals is far better than buying them from breeders IMO. Cassianto^talk 21:07, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree that's probably the best thing you could do, and I salute you for choosing some of the harder-to-place adults. The only thing I can think to add is that you maybe consider seeing if they like the "Salmon and Shrimp" flavored soft food. I gave Missy, the cat I mentioned, a fairly wide selection of the soft foods available, and found that particular flavor disappeared from the bowl much faster than any of the others. Of course, black cats are considered evil by some idiots, but some people are considered evil by some idiots too, so the opinions of those idiots should be given only the minimal regard they deserve. John Carter (talk) 21:11, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

That rescues seem to find black cats harder to rehome is one reason why we chose them, the other is that we lost a passionate black cat some years ago, and they remind us of her. Eric Corbett 21:31, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

How do you suggest to deal with "idiot" as an edit summary for a revert? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:21, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

One of the people I love in this world is someone I've never met: whoever it was that adopted my two 13-year-old cats from the shelter after I had to give them up due to my wife's severe allergic reaction soon after she got pregnant. It was a no-kill shelter, but I was petrified that no one would want them because they were so old. Whoever it was adopted both, so they'd be together. Thanks, Eric, for adopting older animals from the shelter; a definite deposit in your karmic bank account. And I'm sorry to hear about Amy. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:24, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

They were living together at the rescue and I couldn`t bear to split them. Just call me an old fool. Eric Corbett 21:39, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I've filled my mug with North Carolina apple pie moonshine, and would offer the toast: "To Amy, she inspired a man to do at least two good things this week". And as I was quite serious about the drink and the quantity, I should wish you all the best and log off for the evening. Dennis - 2¢ 01:04, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Eric, I am really sorry to hear about the loss of your cat. As someone else said, pets become part of the family, and losing one is really a great family loss. I hope you are very happy with your two new cats, and I am sure they will help you always to remember the good times you had with your previous cat. We have two dogs here in China, and both were strays originally: one followed my son home from school and "adopted" us, and the other was found by my wife starving, abandoned, wounded and close to death in a local park. We spent time nursing it back to health. In fact, we have had 4 dogs in total, all abandoned dogs who we rescued from certain death, either by starvation or by being killed and eaten by other people, though we kept only two (we passed the other two onto people who continue to look after them well). I hope your experiences with all your cats, past and present, are as fulfilling as ours have been with our dogs.  DDStretch  (talk) 01:51, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I said to my wife after I carried Amy in from the side of the road that I don't want to live without a cat. I know it's stupid. maudlin and many won't understand, but that's just the way it is. For me anyway. Eric Corbett 02:14, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

It's not stupid, it's generous human. And I imagine your two new cats are more than happy that you are willing to display your humanity in that way. John Carter (talk) 02:22, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

After our two previous cats died (sisters, 18 years old, within weeks of each other; see also human partnerships) we took on two rescue cats; unfortunately one was very ill and we lost her as well within 6 months; our current two are brilliant however, although I'd wish they would stop bringing us rodents, small passerine birds, frogs, toads, and at least in one case bats and pigeons. Black Kite (talk) 02:40, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

You never know, one day they might bring you a black kite, Black Kite. One of mine managed a rabbit that was nearly as big as itself. This tendency of cats to bring gifts is something I've never understood. They're obviously not hunting for nutrition purposes but is it a show of loyalty or gratitude, or is it part of a game based on their natural hunting instinct. Anyway, I'm pleased to hear that it is Eric 2 Rescue centre 0. That's what I call a result. - Sitush (talk) 05:05, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Just now I recalled Ritchie333 closing this ANI with "Every time a user complains about User:Eric Corbett, God kills a kitten." I find it quite bizarre that this happened eventually. I'm sorry for your loss. No such user (talk) 08:20, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Minneke Poes at the 2012 Kattenstoet

If you like cats and Belgium (which I do), you can't do much worse than visit the Kattenstoet every third May in Ypres, a town well worth visiting anyway for its architecture and focal point for remembrance and war memorials. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:11, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

• What warm my cold, mean heart right up is walking into the bedroom most nights, and Mrs. Brown has Olive snuggled against her like a teddy bear, and Buster is curled around her shoulders, resting his head on her neck or head, all of them sleeping, blissfully. "Piled up like little piggies" is what I tell her. Animals have a type of unconditional love that I think we humans are simply incapable of, at least to that degree. They are blind to our faults and simply accept us as we are. Dennis - 2¢ 17:56, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

• Blind to our faults? Not sure about that as an absolute. Watch the reaction of a rescue dog whose previous owner habitually beat it with a walking stick. - Sitush (talk) 18:00, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I didn't say deaf and dumb ;) Buster has never complained about my spelling or grammar, that I wake up with bad breath, or that I break the speed limit on the highway every day. He only worries about the important things. Dennis - 2¢ 18:43, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I am very sorry to hear about Amy. As another lover of cats, I understand their importance in our lives. Your new kitties are fortunate, and I hope they bring you joy. LadyofShalott 01:49, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

My Maddy surely will have greeted Amy in kitten heaven!

Oh Eric! I am mostly offline for a few days and missed this! I am SO sorry! My condolences! I believe you were kind-spoken back when I lost my dear little calico (pictured) to FIP, and I remember when you announced that you got Amy! Adding Maddy's photo to your page, as that dear heart no doubt greeted Amy with a kitten kiss upon her arrival in pet heaven! Good for you to get the black cats, we have a black one adopted by our neighbors as our current barn cat, our gray now being a full-time inside cat. Montanabw^(talk) 05:17, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Let me add my condolences. I've only just noticed this. I've lost two cats in the manner you describe, it's a horrible feeling to lose a member of your family, especially one who gives out nothing but love (and the occasional puddle of sick) in exchange for food and the odd stroke. Parrot of Doom 17:21, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Invitation to comment

Call it a guess, but I think this comment might be seen as perhaps requesting some sort of input or response from you. John Carter (talk) 22:00, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Define "needless", maybe? This has been hashed out throughout the case. I'm at a loss why various people are suddenly turning up now, right at the death. - Sitush (talk) 22:03, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I've made all the comments I feel it's necessary to make. If Jehochman chooses not to read them or to ignore them then that's his choice. That an admin would jump in at this late stage with such a clear agenda and without full knowledge of the facts is symptomatic of this case. Eric Corbett 22:10, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Eric, I notice that some Arbitrators still appear to be persuadable. If you are about to get sanctioned, it would be great to say something like, "Hey, I recognize that using inflammatory language is not a good idea. I am smart enough to make my points without using those sort of words, and I will make sure to do better in the future." If you swing a couple arbitrators from "support" to "oppose" the result could be very different. Jehochman ^Talk 22:13, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I've made my position clear, and I've already agreed to something along those lines, and even said so on my talk page more than a month ago now. I am not prepared to do more. Eric Corbett 22:22, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

if that is the case then it is a mistake for them to ban you. Jehochman ^Talk 22:31, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

It would be a mistake. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:19, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

The whole thing is a farce. We need to ban POV pushers. Eric is no POV pusher. While the intention was probably good, commenting there would be as useless as flapping your arms wildly after you've been pushed off a cliff. Dennis - 2¢ 14:55, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Great analogy. Like I said above, I'm convinced that there was a subset of arbs that accepted this case KNOWING they were going to push for banning Eric. Just a complete joke. LHM^{ask me a question} 16:14, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

I feel pushed off the cliff already. Klag-Lied: "Durch ein persönliches schlichtes Klag-Lied erweiterte Dieterich Buxtehude Mit Fried und Freud zu einer Trauermusik für seinen Vater." (German Main page, today and tomorrow) - Commented three times, one more than I normally permit myself in my state of shame, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:23, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Dennis & LHM are right, the whole thing is a farce; some of them had already made up their minds going in. Judges get disbarred for that. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 16:24, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

But as people love to point out "there is no justice in Wikipedia." Intothatdarkness 17:14, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

From the BBC archives, rare footage of a typical arbcom case in progress. — Writegeist (talk) 17:38, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Morbid

I found this interesting, I thought you might too. Parrot of Doom 20:28, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Interesting indeed. I'll have a read through that later to see if it mentions any accidental deaths of gong farmers. Eric Corbett 17:46, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Lancashire County Council poor management

Home Secretary and minister for women and equality: "Attacking Eric Corbett must STOP! National Security is at risk."

Were I a resident council tax payer of Lancashire, which I believe you are (my geography becomes hazy once north of Watford), I would be irritated to know that my council tax was being squandered by its employees. Who instead of filling in potholes. coning off roads and doing whatever it is these people are paid to do, are actually anonymously editing Wikipedia, and making pointless attacking edits at that. No wonder the country is in such a state and taxes so high - thank goodness I don't pay them. Giano (talk) 18:50, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

No, Lancashire is to the north of me, I live in Greater Manchester. Eric Corbett 18:57, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Accrington is right next door to Burnley, I could hazard a reasonable guess as to the building this edit was made from, but it wasn't me I swear! :) As for squandering my council tax this is a drop in the ocean, believe me.--Trappedinburnley (talk) 20:22, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

From past reports, there are a lot of potholes need filling thereabouts. - Sitush (talk) 20:27, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I seem to have a distant recollection of a council employee anonymously attacking Eric before. I wish I knew how to work all those tools that look things up, but I don't. I see he's hopped on the ferry to the Isle of Man in the last few hours - he obviously has a very dull life - council employee to Isle of Man. I went there once, the Isle of Man, God it was dull - perhaps it perks when the Grand Prix is on - I do hope so but in November in the rain it's hard to imagine - the locals looked a bit odd too. So I feel very sorry for our county council employee, I suppose attacking Eric must be almost orgasmic by comparison to his/her day-to-day humdrum. Giano (talk) 21:26, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

BSA Gold Star DBD34, a model that apparently dominated in the IoM in 1956. This was my dad's: he and his parents (sat on it) are gone but the bike is still going strong here. Brmm-brmm.

IoM perks up even more for the Isle of Man TT than the Manx GP, Giano. So do the prices, which are in any case normally pretty high even for essentials. If this is a council employee, I think their employer would have something to say about usage and abusage. - Sitush (talk) 21:30, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Well if he's not an council employee, he must be a hacker. Gosh that's thrilling - just think local government and the privacy of a whole UK county is in peril because one person wants to attack Eric Corbett - didn't MI5 or Theresa May ought to be informed of this. Jimbo has friends in high places, just imagine if this were to be an embarrassment to him - we must protect him because widows, orphans and one armed lesbians in Lancashire are all at risk of having their details hacked. Giano (talk) 21:38, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Sigh

	Sing! (song)
	Ha! Hafspajen (talk) 00:34, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

God bless you, Eric. We all love you. 109.149.197.83 (talk) 07:07, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

GGTF/AnonNep

Probably not worth it, Eric. Trolls etc. - Sitush (talk) 18:33, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Probably not. I've said all I have to say there anyway. Eric Corbett 18:38, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Definitely not. I do miss Hans. I read something the other day about people who lose one sense experiencing enhancement of their remaining senses and how this means that those with no sense of humour gain an increased sense of self-importance. pablo 19:49, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Won't somebody please think of the children!

As I'm slowly fading into my wikibreak (more slowly than I would care for, to be honest) I'm trying to tie up loose ends. I realize that I must leave my children here. Our children really. I even remember staying up late at night arguing over names. I ask that you take good care of them. Assuming I come back, I want to keep working on my 60s article. I even bought a book for it the other day, being forever the optimist. I have a two 1' stacks of books on my coffee table for the article, along with all my guitar stuff. Mrs. Brown is truly an angel; she hasn't complained once. It is linked on my front page, and of course, you are welcome to poke around if you want. You can see it has a different direction, although I'm not fixed as to format.

Working with you has been some of the best fun I've had here, and certainly the most educational. I hope I get to do it again. Dennis - 2¢ 22:31, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

God bless you, Dennis. We all love you. 109.148.35.89 (talk) 00:19, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh please, not the loss of another actual content contributor! We are becoming an endangered species. I'm starting to feel like a voice in the wilderness here! Montanabw^(talk) 23:46, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Contributing content is hard work, and it takes its toll. Taking offence and filing spurious AN/I reports as a result is rather easier. Eric Corbett 23:53, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Jimbo knows nothing about that one of course. I was appalled to get an "email" from him the other day demanding money to give to the project. As if the work I've put in here isn't worth far more than I could possibly afford to give in the long term.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:48, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

It certainly does take its toll. Alas, I suspect that the toll will rise as this project becomes ever more dumbed down. - Sitush (talk) 01:05, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

WBT

I have just noticed that William Beach Thomas has been promoted to FA. What, with all the exhausting drama and a few pints of Doom Bar etc, it seems that I'd accidentally unwatched the thing. Perhaps more the latter than the former but I'm keeping schtum.

Anyway, the bot will apparently catch up with events and I am, as so often, very grateful for your help. There is no way I could have sorted out the intricacies without it. Obviously, I think it is quite a classy article; hopefully, others do also. Still room for improvement, though! - Sitush (talk) 01:25, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Congratulations, what's next? Eric Corbett 11:20, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

This place is getting me down a bit and I did say that getting the article through FAC might be the time when I reassess. I could probably get most of my other GA stuff through the FA process if I tried but I'm not sure that I can be bothered.

I have little desire right now to be around so many people who care less about content than civility/politics/social networking etc. I've just been reading the gendergap mailing list and that is particularly depressing, especially when I see people who seem sometimes maybe to be implying that it is only women who are attacked on the web. You know some of the grief I've had in recent months, and of course you get it yourself. - Sitush (talk) 13:18, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Tell me about it. Eric Corbett 13:21, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Someone should perhaps analyse the contributions of those who have commented extensively to the arbcom case. In particular, their contributions during the course of the case itself. I'd hazard a guess that those who have been ranged against us have done proportionately far less content work even while throwing all of the mud etc. One or two have probably done no content work of note at all and they certainly could do with a reminder of what our primary purpose is here. - Sitush (talk) 13:40, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

The problem, I think, is that there is no single primary purpose shared by all editors. Even though WP is nominally a project about building an encyclopedia, in reality for many it's actually more about addressing issues such as gender disparity, to take a current issue. Eric Corbett 14:51, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

True - everyone has varying degrees of issues they hold dear that they think should be more prominent, whether it is folklore, astronomy, environment, promoting the israeli/palestinian/conservative/left-wing/armenian/azerbaijani point of view or whatever. Some more innocuous than others and some more accommodating than.....that's a given really, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:53, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Thing is, one can spend months or years happily doing content-work with very little arguing. I retreat to it when a bit burnt out. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:53, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

What I don't understand is why your typical ANI-camping drama whore doesn't do that? I find rescuing an article from AfD or fixing up somebody's AfC submission to be a fun little passtime, yet I can't imagine some of those parked on the GGTF arbcom case doing that. Oh, Sitush, I'm more a Shepherd Neame man myself, but each to their own eh? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:08, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps because saving content doesn't tick any of the boxes at RfA? Eric Corbett 21:33, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Writing content puts you up for scrutiny and judgement by others. I suspect some are reluctant to put themselves in this situation and have doubts about their own writing ability, or intrapsychically they hate the idea of potentially being in the 1-down position. AfD is a similar situation. Others like the drama I suspect, letting off steam that is collected in real life and venting it at others here, by manipulation or deletion or whatever. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:59, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

That's a very good point. Eric Corbett 22:06, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

I write articles in large part to get away from the drama that is caused by my edits to specifically Indian articles, edits that have almost always survived scrutiny but have inspired a massive amount of hate etc because they fit with our policies but not with the opponents' desires. - Sitush (talk) 22:29, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

(chuckle) the funny (well, not so funny) side is when disputes flare up on (one would have thought) totally innocuous/noncontroversial subjects, such as me at Alpha Centauri and Eric at kelpie. Worth a thought sometime on the most obscure things folks have tussled about (other than really obvious ones) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:15, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

TBH I don't really mind at all if folks don't do much content contribution as long as they don't lord it over folks that do. If a person continually (exclusively) positions themself into a position of faux authority (e.g. passing judgement at AfD, DYK, mainpage, arbpages, ANI) and casts judgement with varying amounts of sanctimoniousness and/or acrimony, then I have a problem with that. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:18, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

I do try to reflect this in real life - I am a consultant psychiatrist so in clinical situations at the top of the pecking order, yet I tell the junior doctors and nurses that I am accountable for every action I take, so anyone at all at my work is most welcome to question me on anything I do as I should be able to explain the rationale for any medication I prescribe, test I order or patient I admit/don't admit/discharge etc. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:21, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Casliber: I would have loved to work with you, then. As it was, before I was retired, I had an academic lectureship where staff changes meant that eventually many of the psychiatrists apparently couldn't distinguish between the idea of someone "working for" them and someone "working with" them, and that if I did my job properly (the one I was always told to do by the university), I wasn't doing what they wanted, and if I did what they wanted, I wasn't doing my job properly. After being put in an impossible situation, much worse than what I've hinted at here, I had to do the right thing, which was a poisoned chalice, and so I was eventually retired.  DDStretch  (talk) 01:27, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Yikes! Sounds terrible! Only worked in the UK for 6 months - at the Maudsley, which was quite fun. Yeah, some jobs and areas are a bit like tightrope walking that's for sure......Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:45, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

I put The Who up for FAC a day or two ago having spent about a year on it, but almost immediately thought "Have I got the time and patience to tackle the workload?" Partly due to general aptitude (I don't have a BA in English) and partly because of the sheer amount of stuff going on and (especially) off wiki in my life. Have to be honest I probably should have asked you two first but this bloody Arbcom case is really getting everyone down. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:38, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

You never know. Depends how long the FAC page gets.....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:53, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Depends if Eric gets his teeth stuck into it. Since he seems to avoiding a ban, it looks like we might get some more FAs after all. But I've just done a few random searches for places in Greater Manchester and they all seem to be GA or above, except Salford Quays. Damn content creators. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:33, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Today I came across some content prophecy --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:53, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Nothing much has changed since then really. I think everyone pretty much realises that acceptance of a case means that punishments will be handed out, it's just their severity that's at issue. Eric Corbett 22:58, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't look at arbcom much, but get nervous to sick when I see a majority of votes for banning a user with whom I want to keep working, - happened twice only, thank goodness, and both turned around. Back to ignoring. - Did you vote. I got nice answers to my question, much better than ban proposals, from "go and sin no more" to "no foul, play on", - even "common sense" was mentioned, would you believe that? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:13, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

No, I didn't vote. What would be the point? Nothing would change. Eric Corbett 23:18, 30 November 2014 (UTC)