Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Isaac Álvarez (footballer)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Sorry but I don't see any consensus here for any particular outcome and it's not the closer's role to impose what I think should be done with this article. I can always be renominated at a future date if the article is not improved. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:26, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Isaac Álvarez (footballer)

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Reviewed during NPP. No evidence of wp:notability under GNG or SNG. Has only two datbase entry / stats sources. Main statement is that he was on the team for a South American championship but didn't play. North8000 (talk) 14:06, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Bolivia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:12, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: From the DICCIONARIO BIOGRAFICO DEL FUTBOL BOLIVIANO (1930-2000):

"Nombre completo: Isaac Álvarez Moscoso. Apodo: La “Araña negra”. Nacimiento: Cochabamba, 6 de julio de 1933. Posición: Guardameta, No 1. Padres: ..... Esposa: ..... Hijos: Jorge Isaac, Jenny Carmiña, Martín Erick. Estudios: Primaria Escuela Carrillo, Secundaria Colegio Carrillo de Cochabamba. Otros Estudios: INSEF. Profesor de Educación Física. Cursos de Dirección Técnica. Clubes: En el Club 31 de Octubre (1963), de La Paz. Participación en la selección: Es Campeón Sudamericano de 1963. Jugó por la selección boliviana dos partidos oficiales (1963-1965) y fue batido en tres oportunidades. Es Campeón Sudamericano Invicto 1963. No tuvo participación oficial en dicho campeonato figurando en la banca. Dirección Técnica: Fue Preparador Físico en The 16 Strongest (1990). Otros Datos: Practicó el Atletismo, el Básquetbol, el Voleibol y el Fútbol. Distinciones: El gobierno mediante la repartición respectiva condecoró con la Medalla al Mérito Deportivo en el Grado de Caballero del Deporte, al cumplirse los 40 años de la conquista del XXI Campeonato Sudamericano. Además de ser acreedor a la pensión vitalicia de 4 sueldos mínimos mensuales."

There is also a bit of coverage here, which although not published in a reliable source, is definitely more evidence of notability. JTtheOG (talk) 17:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 15:32, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 15:34, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @GiantSnowman: What's wrong with the ~170 word encyclopedia entry listed above? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:42, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Based on Google Translate, it covers the names of his children and the schools he went to in brief list form, and then briefly covers his playing career and then his pension... it's not enough on its own. Giant Snowman 15:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  It gives a decent enough bit of coverage for SIGCOV I think:

Full name: Isaac Álvarez Moscoso. Nickname: The “Black Spider”. Birth: Cochabamba, July 6, 1933. Position: Goalkeeper, No 1. Parents: ..... Wife: ..... Children: Jorge Isaac, Jenny Carmiña, Martín Erick. Studies: Primary School Carrillo, Secondary School Carrillo de Cochabamba. Other Studies: INSEF. Physical Education Teacher. Technical Management Courses. Clubs: At the 31 de Octubre Club (1963), in La Paz. Participation in the national team: He is the 1963 South American Champion. He played for the Bolivian team in two official matches (1963-1965) and was beaten three times. He is the 1963 Undefeated South American Champion. He had no official participation in said championship, appearing on the bench. Technical Direction: He was a Physical Trainer on The 16 Strongest (1990). Other Information: He played Athletics, Basketball, Volleyball and Soccer. Distinctions: The government, through the respective distribution, awarded the Medal of Sports Merit in the Degree of Knight of Sports, on the 40th anniversary of the conquest of the XXI South American Championship. In addition to being a creditor of the lifetime pension of 4 minimum monthly salaries

- Probably could use more sources though... BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:50, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The above source is pretty comprehensive and he definetly has more offline sources, having won the 1963 South American Championship with the Bolivia national team. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 07:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 10:13, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 06:03, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete—One unsourced encyclopedia entry means very little. In my view, this does not come close to sustained and significant coverage. Anwegmann (talk) 21:41, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep. I actually think the encyclopedia entry does show prominence, especially as it mentions that he was given what seems to be a prominent sports medal by the government and that the Bolivian government granted him a lifetime pension for his sporting career. The blog post, while a blog, should also be considered here as it mentions he was "one of the glories" (of his club?). Considering that no Bolivian sources from the time have been searched, I'd lean towards keeping, considering that it is highly likely someone of such prominence would receive SIGCOV and we already arguably have SIGCOV in the encyclopedia entry for WP:SPORTCRIT. BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:10, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You make good points. I think a "no consensus" is probably the best outcome here, as this article needs a deeper dive. Anwegmann (talk) 01:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you cite backups for the encyclopedia. I understand what you mean but for the articles state currently, there is no SIGCOV. I also understand that you argue of possible existing sources, can you help digging? I can't give much weight of the encyclopedia. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 10:16, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Backups for the encyclopedia? What do you mean? Why is an encyclopedia discussing the most important Bolivian footballers not to be given any weight, especially when it says the government thought him to be such an important player that they granted him a lifetime pension? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:34, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 02:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I disagree with the no consensus outcome. How a whole discussion should be on an encyclopedia that didn't give much per WP:SIGCOV. The fact proven is that the footballer isn't notable to the measure of being entered as an article. There are much sources needed to prove all claims in the article as well as being direct of how sources are analyzed. This may meet GNG but for the fact that we can't say a little written about him is enough for citing sources. Its not even a biographical book. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 10:12, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.