Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Kling (American football)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Draftify. SpinningSpark 23:46, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

John Kling (American football)

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After 3 seasons, has not played in any regular or postseason games so he doesn't pass WP:NGRIDIRON. Doesn't have any coverage in WP:RSes outside of routine coverage after being signed or released from teams therefore doesn't pass WP:GNG. WikiVirusC^(talk) 15:41, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. If he's still under contract with Washington I'd say that makes him presumptively WP:N as there is still a good chance he could still play a regular season game. If he's a free agent I would change my vote to delete. SportingFlyer (talk) 01:48, 13 February 2018 (UTC) Delete, but perhaps keep source somewhere. Updating as I was wrong. I feel as if this is a borderline case where he's not quite notable. Since there's nothing otherwise wrong with the article, and since it's the offseason and we'll know relatively soon if notability will be established (new non-reserve contract or release), perhaps we keep the source somewhere (perhaps this is done automatically with admin tools.) SportingFlyer (talk) 09:13, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I also don't think this should be done often - my recommendation is due to the timing of the delete shortly after the start of the offseason and a rule saying you can't spend more than 3 seasons on a practice squad (Kling has possibly played three seasons). SportingFlyer (talk)

Being under contract doesn't mean they are notable or presumptive notable. No where on Wikipedia will that apply for any sport. As I said in nomination it's been 3 seasons and he hasn't played one single regular season game. The article being created now versus when he was first signed to a team a few years ago, its no difference. If in the future he gets to play a game then yes he will be notable, but until then, just like the rest of football players that haven't played, he isn't notable yet. WikiVirusC^(talk) 02:47, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, we're going to need to delete a lot of NFL practice squad articles. I think he meets notability guidelines now but may not in the future. SportingFlyer (talk) 03:07, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Other articles that don't meet guidelines can be nominated for deletion as well, but that is separate from this nomination. And notability isn't temporary, once he is notable he will forever be considered notable for Wikipedia, so there is no scenario where someone is notable now and might not be in future. WikiVirusC^(talk) 03:12, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete We do not keep articles because the person might meet notability requirements in the future, we do so based on their actually meeting them.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:51, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Per this NBC Sports story on Kling (also referenced here), he also played for the Philadelphia Soul in the Arena Football League. Doesn't this give him presumed notability under WP:NGRIDIRON? Cbl62 (talk) 17:52, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
He signed with them, it does not say he played any games. Unless you can find a source that says so. For reference he signed with the Sol after the 2016 season[1], with plans to play in 2017 season. He then signed with Redskins April 6th, 2017[2]. The 2017 Arena Football League season didn't begin until April 7th, and Philadelphia didn't play until the 15th, and he was already with the Redskins practice squad. WikiVirusC^(talk) 18:39, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That appears to be sound analysis. It appears he's bounced around a bit. Some sources indicate he also spent time with the Winnipeg Blue Bombers in the CFL. See here. Are you aware of any sources to determine whether he played in any games with the Blue Bombers? Cbl62 (talk) 19:26, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I saw mentions of his time in CFL, but no mention of playing games. His CFL profile doesn't list any games, but I don't follow CFL and am not sure how acurate that is. Article from a site/blog that follows his college team says he was a practice squad member while in CFL. May 4, 2017(After signing with Skins) But I can't find anything more reliable than that after a quick search. WikiVirusC^(talk) 20:10, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also wouldn't this feature story qualify as significant coverage in a reliable, independent source? Cbl62 (talk) 18:04, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That would qualify as one incident of coverage, but not significant coverage by itself. It is routine coverage from the local paper about a player on their sports team. WikiVirusC^(talk) 18:39, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

GNG requires significant coverage in multiple, reliable, and independent sources. The "significant" element concerns depth of coverage. The Chicago Sun-Times article has such depth of coverage. Passing mentions and statistical data may be considered WP:ROUTINE, but an in-depth feature story is not. Of course, GNG requires multiple instances of significant coverage, so we are not yet there. Cbl62 (talk) 19:26, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW. In addition to (1) the Chicago Sun-Times feature story (here), and (2) the NBC Sports story (here), searches turn up the following: (3) "UB tackle Kling adapting well to left side; switch gives better shot to impress NFL scouts", The Buffalo News, 10/9/15 (656 words, full access requires payment); (4) Kling cashes in on an opportunity, The Buffalo News, 11/3/13 (570 words, but not all about Kling); (5) "John Kling signs with Washington Redskins", Pro Football Weekly, 4/13/17 (requires payment, 455 words); and (6) "John Kling signs with Washington Redskins", The Spectrum (arguably, not independent), 4/13/17. I'm still undecided, but it's a close call. He does have a great nickname though: the 6'7" 313 pounder is known as "Kling Kong". Cbl62 (talk) 20:28, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 19:55, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 19:55, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify. Borderline notability with a good chance to meet it within the G13 window, so no point in erasing the content entirely. ansh 666 22:04, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm having a difficult time believing that there's no coverage of his college career given the time he's spent nearly making an active NFL roster... not taking a position yet, just hoping (hope is not a reason to keep or delete) that we can find more.--Paul McDonald (talk)
There is coverage from his time in college from local Buffalo papers, and mentions from the college Newspaper as he tried to make NFL rosters that Cbl62 linked out above. He was signed to teams, just never played, and with each signing(or release) in NFL, there is routine coverage from localized and national venues. He has about as much as you would expect there to be. WikiVirusC^(talk) 16:47, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sportswriters aren't exactly in a hurry to dull their pencil tips over offensive linemen. Lizard (talk) 14:16, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - fails WP:GNG. It's WP:TOOSOON - this shouldn't have been posted to main space yet. I'd weakly support if someone wants to draftify to save the work should he eventually play in an NFL game. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 23:00, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.