Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pavlos Kouroupis

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Nomination has been withdrawn following improvements to the article. The weight of the discussion also indicates keep. AustralianRupert (talk) 08:49, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pavlos Kouroupis

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Article is a completely unsourced stub and fails WP:V. The sole external link is not a reliable source. Subject fails WP:NSOLDIER and WP:ANYBIO. A WP:BEFORE search yielded some passing mentions of him on various websites, some of which appear to be near verbatum copies of our unsourced article. However none look to be enough to ring the WP:N bell. (Note: I am renominating this article on behalf of Davidgoodheart whose original nomination was malformed and failed to transclude properly.) Ad Orientem (talk) 23:41, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination Withdrawn based on dramatic improvements by Dr.K.. Great job! -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:58, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 06:28, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 06:28, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Cyprus-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 06:28, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Doesn't pass NSOLDIER (Lt. col. commanded a battalion in action, died while doing so). In my, admittedly, limited BEFORE in Greek - I wasn't able to come up with much (though there are various hits). The grwiki is at the same state, more or less, as the enwiki here. Icewhiz (talk) 07:40, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Following article improvement - heck he even passes NSOLDIER given his 2008 promotion to lt. General. Teaches me for trying to search in Greek. Icewhiz (talk) 07:00, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I have found three RS in Greek with non-trivial coverage which I will add to the article. It appears Kouroupis is credited as the first defender of Cyprus when operation Attila started where for two days he kept at bay superior Turkish forces outnumbering the Greek forces 13 to 1. The RS are two books and a history website: Red in the Green Line, Dying in Cyprus, and Pavlos Kouroupis is considered the first missing of Attila.Dr. K. 22:50, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Followup I have expanded the article and added four RS. The deletion rationale, based on this expansion alone is now outdated. The expansion will continue in the coming days. Dr. K. 06:33, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Followup of the followup Expansion is now complete. The article as it stands now has a very small relation to the article as it appeared at the opening of this AfD. See original state of article as it appeared at the start of this AfD and see it now. Dr. K. 19:23, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - as per reasons by @Icewiz and @Cinderella157. Resnjari (talk) 23:38, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawing vote and not adding a new one - initial reason for placing a vote was that the article was unsourced and appeared to be POV stub recycling anti-Turkish polemics and anti-Turkish and anti-Muslim sentiment. If this article is going to be around hopefully its sources will be from unbiased scholarship written by non-nationalistic academics. Resnjari (talk) 01:39, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that's a surprise. In any case, I find your withdrawal of the delete !vote an honourable thing to have done. Best regards. Dr. K. 04:51, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why the surprise? My delete vote was based on the reasons of two other editors. They no longer stand by them and I decided that a withdrawal and non vote instead was better on my part. Resnjari (talk) 06:08, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No argument on my side. Don't get me wrong, it was a pleasant surprise. I just thought that perhaps you would be more attached to your original position, despite the withdrawals. AfDs are sometimes this way. I am glad we have reached common ground. Dr. K. 06:26, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It was a common sense approach. Opposition for the sake of opposition is silly and petty. Resnjari (talk) 08:03, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, and I wanted to express my appreciation when I saw that you kept an open mind, although I should, perhaps, not have used the term "surprise", even in jest. Dr. K. 08:30, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - as per reasons by @Icewiz and @Cinderella157. Ha, all of whom saw the article before the huge ongoing expansion and addition of sources. Why such a rush to delete this article? Dr. K. 06:23, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Dr.K.:, I saw some of these sources in my BEFORE prior to my !vote. How much content (pages) do you have on our subject in this sources (some of which are available to me only in snippet)? How much content do you have disconnected from the 1974 events? I'll note that the suspected POWs at Bolu and Denizli (1995) would probably be better as a standalone (and seems our subject's connection to the added content is rather loose - he's suspected to be in the the suspected group). Icewhiz (talk) 06:31, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No, one of the sources mentions that the Kasimatis report states that he was one of the prisoners. As far as content disconnected from the 74 events, please see his life section which is substantial. As well, I have not yet started the description of his participation in the battle, which is very notable. Also, no pings please. There is no hurry, and I watch this page anyway. Dr. K. 06:39, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ Article adds nothing of substance to what is at Battle of Pentemili beachhead. Even if there are four sources giving non-trivial coverage, I am not convinced they established sufficient notability or coverage that could expand the article beyond what is essentially a trivial mention. Regards, Cinderella157 (talk) 23:55, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Even if there are four sources giving non-trivial coverage, I am not convinced they established sufficient notability or coverage that could expand the article beyond what is essentially a trivial mention. I disagree. There is enough coverage in the RS to independently expand the article beyond the battle coverage and into a substantial biography. I intend to do so in the next few days. Dr. K. 04:19, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dr.K., I am open to being convinced. Ping me when you think you have something convincing. It should be both, be a "substantial biography" and establish notability. Regards, Cinderella157 (talk) 08:43, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Cinderella, will you join the party? Be careful though when you leave. Don't forget any shoe behind. :) Dr. K. 04:58, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Revised position to now keep, though the references are pretty much all Greek to me. Regards, Cinderella157 (talk) 05:21, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much Cinderella. It was very nice meeting you. As far as the sources, Google translate is not as bad as it used to be, and you are welcome to ask me anytime. Best regards. Dr. K. 06:03, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

My comment re "all Greek to me" was jest. I take these in good faith as being suitable though with translation, I have found some knowledge of the language to be a great benefit. Well done, Cinderella157 (talk) 07:55, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you again, I appreciate your good faith and encouragement. Also, nice to know you understand Greek. :) Dr. K. 08:30, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cinderella Thank you for joining our party, which is guaranteed to be a winner! And also thanks to Dr.K. for that generous invite as well! Dr.K. has really supplied some good sources and great reasons for keeping this article that are very convincing. What was once just a very short completely unsourced stub with so little to say has grown into a tremendous article full of information with sources. I also see that after the article's expansion that it's views have really gone way up as well! What a superb effort on the part of Dr.K.! Davidgoodheart (talk) 07:30, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have to thank you as well, David. Without your idea to put this article through AfD, this article wouldn't have gotten the help it needed from so many great editors, including yourself. AfD rarely works so nicely, but, when it does, it makes for a very nice day on wiki. :) Dr. K.^

Keep Sufficient coverage to establish notability. Khirurg (talk) 16:22, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep After recent expansion article clearly passes wp:N threshold. Alexikoua (talk) 20:20, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Alexikoua (right above). ——Chalk19 (talk) 20:49, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Alexikoua: Thank you Alexi for adding the crucial information to the article of the posthumous distinction by the Greek government and the naming of the street in Nicosia. Dr. K. 02:43, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Dr. K.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 22:30, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep, article has been largely expanded and also is now well sourced enough that it can be kept. It also just keeps getting improved very often as well. Great job Dr.K.! Davidgoodheart (talk) 01:56, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Davidgoodheart: Thank you very much David for the nice gesture of your !vote and for your kind comments. I really appreciate the encouragement coming from a great editor such as yourself. Take care. Dr. K. 02:37, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note Although I have withdrawn the nomination and now support Keeping the article, there are still outstanding Delete !votes. As long as that remains the case the discussion cannot be closed early. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:01, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Ad Orientem: Thank you very much, Ad Orientem, for your nice words and for your nice gesture of withdrawing the nomination. It is a great motivating factor for me coming from an editor and admin I greatly respect. Dr. K. 02:37, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:HEY. ——SerialNumber54129 09:31, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.