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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was No consensus. Stifle (talk) 13:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

User:Psikxas/Karheim

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Originally created as mainspace article. Speedy deleted for violation of NOTE and SOAP (with great difficulty; creator & socks kept removing SD notice — see SPI). Retrieved and moved at creator's request to his userspace. Still violates WP:SOAP, also violates NOTHOST and CORP and apparently COI; creator continues to add promotional material and deliberate factual errors of commercial nature, padded with encyclopædic material lifted from Headlamp and other articles. Tough to assume good faith given creator's (and socks') contrib histories; it appears this userspace pseudo-article is being put together with the intent of using it to create the appearance of legitimacy (perhaps by means of links to the pseudo-article from non-Wikipedia sites) for one of many non-notable vendors of a globally illegal product. —Scheinwerfermann T·C00:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Really cant understand why you continue accusing me...im willing to give you even my phone number to see i have nothing to do with companies..for real! What else can i do?

    It seems like its something personal...?

    I asked Jayron32 and he moved the article in my user subpage...there i edited it again and again...added infos that HIDs are illegal...tried to be neutral...and finally asked Jayron32 in his talk page to review it again and tell me if im in a good way from what i started...and before i get an answer maybe this article will be deleted..? ....

    Psikxas (talk) 00:44, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Furthermore, thats i left in your talk page Scheinwerfermann

    " Dont know..really..i see links from many companies..not only one...from Osram to Mcdonalds...from Banks to TDK and sony...doesnt these companies have external links?

    ..and i want to write an article about something that it doesnt exist here, but something about i know it very well...maybe include less info at the beginning and let others complete it....everyone can modify it then, cant he? anyway...if you have any idea of an article about ligthing or in general electronics -cause thats what i study, is there a PM system here i could tell you who i am, we could talk further and solve you all your concerns if i have anything to do with companies, who is behind a nick etc- that doesnt appear here, please kindly tell me to start with..."

    and your only answer was

    " YOUR COMPANY is not notable "  ?

    Does this answer seem that you have nothing personal with companies or with me as an admin? or its my idea only?

    I said in public im willing to verify who is behind Psikxas to an admin, if i work, own, or have anything to do with any company...ANY...!

    and you insist...this is help from an admin? Jayron32 helped me till now by providing me articles to read and become better...thats all i believe.

    When you reported me for the first time, i stopped editing any page here because i thought my account will be blocked. And as i started editing again, REMOVING advertisment from the page, you reported me again? i have to stop editing again pages here i suppose. Review my history, i didnt edit only one article here, i edited many articles that i think i know them, even in non-english wikipedia Psikxas (talk) 01:00, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per nom, having reviewed Daniel Stern's information on the illegality of HID retrofits worldwide, and Auto Express's documentary.   — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 01:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Osram Sylvania HID is this HID from Osram illegal too? may any admin report Osram too? Or even this Osram's Retailer HID Kit ? from Osram's authorised retailer? see here if suvlights.com are authorised or not [1]
    2. Jeff: Yes, HID installed in WRONG housing is illegal, but doesnt Audi, BMW etc have OEM HID? if this HID system fails, what aftermarket kit are you supposed to use to fix it? Resources mentioned above are for china kits fitted in Halogen headlamps. According to regulations, this should be installed in correct housing for HID use, thats the only matter
    3. Is this article reported cause its illegal or because its violating any wikipedia policy? Confused now
    4. from resources Jeff provided : "Fact: While some of the components in these kits are sometimes manufactured by the companies mentioned, the components aren't being put to their designed or intended use. Reputable companies like Philips, Osram, Hella, etc. never endorse this kind of "retrofit" usage of their products." They sell them to be installed in HID designed headlamps.
    5. article is in a user page, still in progress and correcting it. why dont have a chance to complete and then decide if its violating any policy? how else could i ask any admin about correcting it?Psikxas (talk) 01:50, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comment: Psikxas, once again, Osram does not make "HID kits" for installing HID bulbs in halogen headlamps. The difference has been explained to you enough times between illegal HID kits (such as your company sells) and legitimate HID headlamps (original equipment on some cars) and components for use in them (such as Osram sells), that it's growing very difficult to interpret your persistence on this point as genuine confusion. Your article is about a fundamentally non-notable vendor engaged in a dubious business selling items that are illegal everywhere. No amount of modification to the article will change that, which is why it is being considered for deletion. —Scheinwerfermann T·C02:09, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]


  • " these products should be installed in correct housing for HID use - They sell them to be installed in HID designed( NOT Halogen)- HID designed! headlamps.".... Thats what i said and This.... "Osram does not make "HID kits" for installing HID bulbs in halogen headlamps." from Scheinwerfermann. Despite my poor English, everyone can judge here if we are talking about the same think or not, and who insists or not..Arent both sentences identical? where you dont agree? Is really a good reason behind all this behaviour we should know?
  • Complete Osram Sylvania Xenarc HID system is illegal? Or complete Karheim HID system of one company is illegal and from another one doesnt?may i write it in Osram and leave your words as a reference?
  • Despite i asked to proove my ID and if i have any relation with ANY company, despite i asked to leave this article cause makes us argue and if you have any idea about telling me an interesting article as an admin here i could write (except for this that obvious you dont like (?) and create an encyclopædia article for the general reading public, you decided to do nothing of these 2? The only think you care is to continue accusing me about a company i have nothing to do? about a "dubious business"?
  • still working notability of this article.. thats why its in a user page...and have communication with an admin that is kindly willing to help! im all of my own and you are an admin that can delete, undelete, edit every page! Admin is an admin for a reason, its not a new user of course and has experience, but wouldnt be more fair if everything would not be based on a single person judge?Psikxas (talk) 02:48, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe im totally wrong. Thats why, after reviewing another page, Kärcher, and its history how it started in wikipedia as a stub, how notability requires verifiable evidence and this evidence was from official karcher site, i created another article in my User Page, marked as a stub too, in the same "format" of Karcher, trying to follow all wikipedia policy. If Karcher is a notable article, then this should be also i suppose... I stopped editing this page here cause i dont want to be accused again for anything...

Hope any fair admin who will solve this matter here, will not mark for deletion the new article created in my user page, or else he has to do it in Kärcher and a list of so many other companies here, isnt? First, Scheinwerfermann reported the article, then accused admin Jayron32 why he moved the article in User Page, then tried and found another way to mark it again for deletion. Despite everyone can google for "Scheinwerfermann" and find himself that this nick replies in other forums such as here | Here promoting automotive lighting products, recommending prices, recommending stores such as Candlepower , an American aftermarket(!!) distributor (!!!!) in a way that points he is involed in manufacturing and lighting in general, i dont believe its the same person as our admin here, so this doesnt justify his obsession with some articles while others left them without reporting, and has nothing to do with his behaviour here. I strongly believe that a good admin here, after reviewing all infos ive given, after reviewing especially dialogs between me and Scheinwerfermann, then it would be fair, if he thinks this article here isnt notable, neutral enough, then he will delete it, but he will also move the other article i created and marked as a stub from my User Page User:Psikxas to wikipedia as a stub and let other users judge, make changes to it etc Psikxas (talk) 22:05, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Aervanath (talk) 04:01, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Userspace does not require notability. Question about legality is dealt with properly, hence not too commercial (most companies do not include material saying no one in the US can use the product). All the rest belongs on Talk pages, not in MfD. Collect (talk) 10:56, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep for now. Schweinwerfermann, you seem to be pursuing deletion of this, in several venues, because the subject is illegal and dangerous. HID refit kits are illegal and dangerous, but that's not actually a reason for deletion from Wikipedia - see heroin for the proper way to write an article on something illegal and dangerous, and note how much of an enormous loss it would be to delete that article. See also WP:NOTCENSORED, our policy on topic censorship. In the absence of any other objection, Psikxas should be free to draft a potentiallly acceptable article on the subject. Having said that, the potential for this to become promotional is a genuine concern. I'd suggest to Psikxas that he keep it on the subpage (putting it on the main userpage would not interfere with deletion), and work quickly to draft an acceptable article. If it doesn't seem headed to article space within a reasonable period of time, then deletion should be on the table. — Gavia immer (talk) 11:28, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My concern over how the illegality was (not) handled has been assuaged for the most part by the user's recent revisions to the text; my primary objection remains that this is essentially a promotional piece for a non-notable vendor, with some padding and refs drag-and-dropped in from other articles. I will wait awhile and keep an eye on it; what are your thoughts on what constitutes a reasonable timeframe for Psikxas to establish notability and other basic prerequisites for an article headed to mainspace? —Scheinwerfermann T·C19:55, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have a concrete recommendation for how long this should be allowed to stay in mainspace. Assuming this is kept, though, and that no new issue pops up, it definitely shouldn't be renominated in the next thirty days or so. More than that depends on what's happening then. — Gavia immer (talk) 00:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]


  • 1. I uploaded it from the MAIN companys SITE with the SAME name as it appears there, as this hasnt been done the very first time.In its site its public. I did it after carefully reading this wikipedia policy:

"It is believed that the use of low-resolution images on the English-language Wikipedia, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation, of logos for certain uses involving identification and critical commentary may qualify as fair use under United States copyright law".

I didnt change any name of course, but i left the same as i found it on the company site..i added a log where i found it when i asked to, through bot in my talk page.

2. So, cause i uploaded an img, this page here is not notable?? Ok.. "Admin".

Instead of telling US if YOU or why, from one hand you are promoting in public forums (see my other posts) AFTERMARKET Lighting products, and on the other hand you are trying HARD to report EVERY page you are not promoting of course, you choose to watch what i do or not.. Maybe someone is acting in good faith, but...what if there are obvious evidence for the opposite?!


Maybe i vandalise an article here oneday and get banned immediately, will this mean that a nottable article should be deleted ? Arent there articles here whom first editors banned after some time? Did their articles removed too? Didnt understand this point here at all..And if it has anything to do with what we are discussing or with ONLY one person trying like crazy to remove this article here...


For now..im waiting..i dont know what to do and when is the time to ask an admin move the page to wikipedia MAIN from my user page. Hope this issue here will close soon. Psikxas (talk) 14:07, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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