Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ritual Decalogue

This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Keep (no consensus). --Ryan Delaney ^talk 05:52, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Ritual Decalogue

Delete this rambling mish-mash that duplicates the Ten Commandments article; it's full of original research (see Talk:Ritual Decalogue); the topic could easily be redirected to the Ten Commandments article where the uniqueness of the word "Ritual" could be explained; "Decalogue" already means "ten commandments/utterances"; anything deemed suitable could be added to the Ten Commandments; as it stands, this article merely adds gratuitous clutter to a serious subject.IZAK 09:22, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as above. IZAK 09:23, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
• To make sure there are no doubts, I'm going to be verbose: Salvage anything worthwhile from this article and merge it with Ten Commandments. Then delete this article and recreate it as a redirect to Ten Commandments. Now, voy a volver a mirar la revista de «Battlestar Galactica» por SciFi... Tomer ^TALK 09:37, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
  • There is no consensus to put the material into Ten Commandments. Do check the talk page. Pilatus 14:37, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

It does not in the least duplicate the TC article. There are two Decalogues discussed in biblical scholarship, the Ethical and the Ritual. I made this a separate article because it's not the common understanding of the "Ten Commandments", and I didn't think people would appreciate having it in the main TC article. Izak and Tomer, if you would prefer to divide that article into two sections, Ethical Decalogue and Ritual Decalogue, I would have no objection. In fact, I would prefer it: I agree with you that that's where it belongs. I was merely attempting to avoid the edit war that I thought might follow.

Please delete any original research. I agree the article's a mish-mash; I'm not the person to write it. I came to Wikipedia to read up on this topic, and it's a rather egregious omission on the part of Ten Commandments article not to mention the Ritual Decalogue. Better a mish-mash, which will improve with time as other editors play their part, than silence. Please improve the article to make it more respectable, wherever it ends up. kwami 09:57, 2005 August 8 (UTC)

Hi Kwami: It is rather poor form to "create" articles out of thin air, and then admit that they are in fact "mish-mash" to wit! May I suggest that you first learn how to do things in the Wikipedia:Sandbox. Writing an article is not the same as putting down in writing the stream of consciousness of one's mind about any given subject. All you are citing are philosophical and moral aspects, perhaps, of the Ten Commandments...otherwise articles could become splintered in 6 billion ways as each person on Earth comes along and has "thoughts" and "ideas" that they may dredge up from the Internet or wherever. We must be more responsible than that in creating a respectable and coherent online Encyclopedia that conforms to accepted scholarship. What you say here merely re-inforces the need to delete the article (and place anything of value on the Ten Commandments page.) Thanks. IZAK 10:32, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

You seem to be missing the point. I'm prepared to accept the criticism that the article is mishmash, because I know I'm not the best writer in the world. But these are not my opinion about the TC, or dredged up from the internet. They are accepted scholarship, and can be found in standard biblical commentary. You can perhaps find better sources than I. This material needs to be in here somewhere, preferably in the TC article. It should be clear that according to much biblical criticism, there are two distinct Decalogues. One is not a "philosophical" version of the other, at least not according to the sources I've cited. (There will of course be other points of view which I have not found.) kwami 11:28, 2005 August 8 (UTC)

• Keep or merge as above. kwami 09:57, 2005 August 8 (UTC)
• Delete. anything good should be merged with the Ten Commandments article. --Eliezer | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 10:13, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to Ten Commandments The term is notable. Pilatus 12:35, 8 August 2005 (UTC) Keep. Consensus at Ten Commandments is to have that page to refer to the Ten Commandments proper, and the term Ritual Decalogue or Ceremonial Decalogue is notable in the literature. Clean up, remove original research, then it will stand. Pilatus 13:37, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with Ten Commandments after reducing to the bare bones. This is nothing but a vehicle for the documentary hypothesis (although it goes back to Goethe) and has no other notability. JFW | T@lk 13:47, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Even if you don't like the Documentary Hypothesis, it's still notable. Hey, even though I don't like Creation Science, the term still belongs in an encyclopedia. Pilatus 13:37, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, seems entirely based upon limited philosophical thought — HopeSeekr of xMule (Talk) 14:30, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, then turn into a re-direct. If there is anything worth keeping, it could be merged with Ten Commandments, but this is not crucial. Jayjg ^(talk) 16:00, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Maybe a slight mention could be made in the Ten Commandments article, but this info primarily belongs in the Documentary Hypothesis article. HKT ^talk 16:55, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. --Arcadian 17:54, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

• Merge As per Tomer's suggestion Robertbrockway 22:22, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

• DeleteAs per IZAK's suggestion Kuratowski's Ghost 23:54, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. Interesting, valuable and scholarly. The vehemence of opposition to this article is clearly ideologically driven - read the talk page. Alternatively, add as a section of the Ten Commandments article and redirect. ntennis 04:04, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

• DeleteAs per IZAK's suggestion. This article is based on flawed analysis of the Old Testament DRosenbach 12:21 11 August 2005
  • It's not up to us to judge if the scholarship is OK, that would be original research and pushing POV. What counts is that the Documentary Hypothesis is a notable view. Yes, the article needs serious reworking. Pilatus 14:37, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. I'm not in favour of merging these with the Ten Commandments article since it is an unrelated set of injunctions. Which set may be Moses's original set may be open to debate, or not, but it's the other one which is known today as the "Ten Commandments". IMHO merging the articles would be misleading; but the article as it stands looks already interesting, NPOV (or if some people think it isn't, it can be made so), and it can also be seen as useful in that it's easier to remember "Ritual Decalogue" than "Exodus 34" which is the place where to find it in the Bible. -- Tonymec 23:54, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep per kwami, Pilatus & Tonymec. Mish-mashery is a necessary first step for many a good article. I appreciate that this is not orthodox understanding, and it needs to be cleaned up to reflect this, but the sources already cited show it is one scholarly understanding, and notable enough for its own article outside "documentary hypothesis" or "Ten Commandments".Lusanaherandraton 11:56, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. The subject deserves its own article. COGDEN 19:50, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.