Talk:Isaac Asimov: Difference between revisions
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{{Old peer review|ID=1114067257|reviewedname=Isaac Asimov|date=31 October 2022|archive=3}} |
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== "Believing" ??? == |
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One sentence reads as follows: |
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"''When the family arrived in the United States in 1923 and their name had to be spelled in the Latin alphabet, Asimov's father spelled it with an S, believing this letter to be pronounced like Z (as in German), and so it became Asimov.''" |
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This is a ''ridiculous'' statement, because S '''is''' often pronounced like a Z. |
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I improved the references in the section "Attitudes to Women", and in the process changed the title to "Assault of Women". Someone then changed this to "Alleged Assault of Women", although it has since been changed back. I have a feeling that the person who changed it to "Alleged Assault" is probably more correct than I was in the original. Does it not remain an allegation unless he unambiguously admits the assault, or is convicted, or there is some truly extraordinary evidence (eg unambiguous video?) Asimov admitted to very poor behaviour, but I asked some of the relevant researchers and I don't know of any references where he admitted to assault, nor of any where he was so much as charged with assault let alone convicted. |
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Consider the words "is", "as", "was", "does", "words", "trains", "cars", "cans", and many, many others that are not even slightly exceptions to any rule. |
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It is important to stick to the facts, and I think on reflection these are only allegations. Even if the allegations were sufficient to cause the police of the time to bring charges, that did not happen. |
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So Isaac Asimov's father did not merely "believe" that S is pronounced like a Z in English. |
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[[User:DanShearer|Dan Shearer]] ([[User talk:DanShearer|talk]]) 18:16, 13 January 2022 (UTC) |
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:As that section seems to rely primarily on Nevala-Lee's column, that source supports a heading like "Misconduct toward women". There is no mention of "assault" even though the modern interpretation of his actions would be considered such today. [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#9966FF;">Schazjmd</span>]] [[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#5500FF;">''(talk)''</span>]] 18:32, 13 January 2022 (UTC) |
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::Misconduct would be better. Since Asimov freely admitted to such behaviour, I don't think these are allegations.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 18:58, 13 January 2022 (UTC) |
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:::They're not just allegations, he freely admitted it, but he didn't think of it as assault. Times and attitudes have changed, and "misconduct" might be better than "assault" which could be considered anachronistic (or we could just go back to "attitude" but I'm fine with misconduct). [[User:Richard75|Richard75]] ([[User talk:Richard75|talk]]) 19:19, 13 January 2022 (UTC) |
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Rather, it very frequently '''is''' pronounced like a Z. |
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The section on sexual harassment has been moved into the "Views" section, as a sub-section along with his views on politics, religion, the environment, other authors, etc. I'm not sure why; the focus of the sexual harassment section is on his behaviour, it's not just about his opinions. I think it was better where it was, it seems out of place now. [[User:Richard75|Richard75]] ([[User talk:Richard75|talk]]) 18:35, 6 February 2022 (UTC) |
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(Conversely, there are many cases where a Z is pronounced like an S, like "waltz". In its plural, "waltzes", the Z has an S sound and the S has a Z sound.) |
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== More representative photo? == |
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⚫ | <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:200:c082:2ea0:9cf0:82c3:f2ea:74c4|2601:200:c082:2ea0:9cf0:82c3:f2ea:74c4]] ([[User talk:2601:200:c082:2ea0:9cf0:82c3:f2ea:74c4#top|talk]]) 18:33, 5 December 2023 (UTC)</small> |
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The physical appearance of Asimov that most people are familiar with, and the one depicted the most in pop culture, is of a middle-aged or elderly Asimov with sideburns and longer hair. Even he said "they became a permanent feature of my face, and it is now difficult to believe early photographs that show me without sideburns", as mentioned in the article. Should the article photo be changed to reflect that? The only argument I can think of for the present photo is that it depicts him as he looked like when he wrote most of his famous books. |
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⚫ | <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/ |
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:We can only use photos that are in the public domain. [[User:Darkday|Darkday]] ([[User talk:Darkday|talk]]) 22:31, 11 February 2022 (UTC) |
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== |
== Misbegotten sentence == |
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"''Asimov refused early suggestions of using a more common name as a pseudonym, believing that its recognizability helped his career.''" |
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I remeber reading one of his books (translation of the title to Croatian was not literal, so I had trouble finding it). It's a 1979 non fiction book 'A Choice of Catastrophes' which discusses various possibilities in which life on Earth could end and the probabilities of it happening). Here's the link to the title on GoodReads: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1891139.A_Choice_of_Catastrophes?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=NVe3zWNOh9&rank=2 . Pls feel free to add to bibliography. HTH [[User:TPetricevic|TPetricevic]] ([[User talk:TPetricevic|talk]]) 13:32, 10 November 2022 (UTC) |
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::Well, this book was not really missing, since the bibliography in this article is a selected bibliography. Or at least, it started out that way, but over the years, more and more books were added. But I think trying to include every Asimov title in this article doesn't make much sense, since we already have three(!) dedicated pages covering Asimov's books. [[User:Darkday|Darkday]] ([[User talk:Darkday|talk]]) 17:43, 10 November 2022 (UTC) |
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:::True. We have external links to complete lists for people who want that. (Maybe we should be more selective?) [[User:Richard75|Richard75]] ([[User talk:Richard75|talk]]) 21:46, 10 November 2022 (UTC) |
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This sentence contains no antecedent for the pronoun "its". <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:200:c082:2ea0:9cf0:82c3:f2ea:74c4|2601:200:c082:2ea0:9cf0:82c3:f2ea:74c4]] ([[User talk:2601:200:c082:2ea0:9cf0:82c3:f2ea:74c4#top|talk]]) 18:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)</small> |
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== Robert Heinlein, L. Sprague deCamp & Isaac Asimov picture == |
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== Suggested new section: "Controversy" == |
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The description for this picture is wrong. |
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The following paragraph is hidden in "Writings > Other Writings," and I would strongly recommend that a new "Controversy" section be created to house it. I had to search the word "harass" to find it, so a reader who doesn't already know may not see it, and it's important. The wording of the paragraph itself is already very mild compared to the extent of his behavior, but at least it should be in a more logical category. |
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They are, from left to right: Robert A. Heinlein, then L. Sprague deCamp, then Isaac Asimov. |
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"Particularly in his later years, Asimov to some extent cultivated an image of himself as an amiable lecher. In 1971, as a response to the popularity of sexual guidebooks such as The Sensuous Woman (by "J") and The Sensuous Man (by "M"), Asimov published The Sensuous Dirty Old Man under the byline "Dr. 'A'"[181] (although his full name was printed on the paperback edition, first published 1972). However, by 2016, Asimov's habit of groping women was seen as sexual harassment and came under criticism, and was cited as an early example of inappropriate behavior that can occur at science fiction conventions.[182]" [[Special:Contributions/142.115.97.35|142.115.97.35]] ([[User talk:142.115.97.35|talk]]) 20:06, 19 February 2024 (UTC) |
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The current description confuses Heinlein and deCamp. [[Special:Contributions/104.240.132.209|104.240.132.209]] ([[User talk:104.240.132.209|talk]]) 22:26, 17 November 2022 (UTC) |
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: |
:There is a "sexual harassment" section already. [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]] [[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 20:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::There is indeed, and it isn't hard to find. Look, there it is in the table of contents. You didn't need to do a word search. [[User:Richard75|Richard75]] ([[User talk:Richard75|talk]]) 00:10, 20 February 2024 (UTC) |
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== Picture used == |
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== Category "[a]ge controversies" == |
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Isaac wore big sideburns for most of his adult life. Is there any particular reason to use this atypical image? If not, should we use an image with his common look? [[User:Big Money Threepwood|Big Money Threepwood]] ([[User talk:Big Money Threepwood|talk]]) 04:44, 29 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:It is probably because it is the only, or best, free image. Check the Commons category [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Isaac_Asimov here]; [[:File:Isaac Asimov, RIT NandE Vol13Num29 1981 Sep24 Complete.jpg|'''''this''''']] is the only other image that is suitable. [[User:MarcGarver|MarcGarver]] ([[User talk:MarcGarver|talk]]) 08:45, 29 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:Uncertain doesn't mean it's controversial. [[User:Richard75|Richard75]] ([[User talk:Richard75|talk]]) 23:02, 12 December 2022 (UTC) |
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::I found a stack of cc 4.0 non commercial licensed images of him, I've updated the page with one. Please revert if it isn't up to snuff. I think wikimedia has some sort of clipping capability to improve the image I will look into [[User:Big Money Threepwood|Big Money Threepwood]] ([[User talk:Big Money Threepwood|talk]]) 07:22, 1 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Non-Commercial No Derivatives License (CC BY-NC-ND) are not acceptable I'm afraid. Wikimedia projects require commercial and derivative licenses. [[User:MarcGarver|MarcGarver]] ([[User talk:MarcGarver|talk]]) 12:53, 1 March 2024 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 12:53, 1 March 2024
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"Believing" ???
[edit]One sentence reads as follows:
"When the family arrived in the United States in 1923 and their name had to be spelled in the Latin alphabet, Asimov's father spelled it with an S, believing this letter to be pronounced like Z (as in German), and so it became Asimov."
This is a ridiculous statement, because S is often pronounced like a Z.
Consider the words "is", "as", "was", "does", "words", "trains", "cars", "cans", and many, many others that are not even slightly exceptions to any rule.
So Isaac Asimov's father did not merely "believe" that S is pronounced like a Z in English.
Rather, it very frequently is pronounced like a Z.
(Conversely, there are many cases where a Z is pronounced like an S, like "waltz". In its plural, "waltzes", the Z has an S sound and the S has a Z sound.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:200:c082:2ea0:9cf0:82c3:f2ea:74c4 (talk) 18:33, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
Misbegotten sentence
[edit]"Asimov refused early suggestions of using a more common name as a pseudonym, believing that its recognizability helped his career."
This sentence contains no antecedent for the pronoun "its". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:200:c082:2ea0:9cf0:82c3:f2ea:74c4 (talk) 18:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- Nobody is going to be in any doubt about what it is referring to. Richard75 (talk) 21:23, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
Suggested new section: "Controversy"
[edit]The following paragraph is hidden in "Writings > Other Writings," and I would strongly recommend that a new "Controversy" section be created to house it. I had to search the word "harass" to find it, so a reader who doesn't already know may not see it, and it's important. The wording of the paragraph itself is already very mild compared to the extent of his behavior, but at least it should be in a more logical category.
"Particularly in his later years, Asimov to some extent cultivated an image of himself as an amiable lecher. In 1971, as a response to the popularity of sexual guidebooks such as The Sensuous Woman (by "J") and The Sensuous Man (by "M"), Asimov published The Sensuous Dirty Old Man under the byline "Dr. 'A'"[181] (although his full name was printed on the paperback edition, first published 1972). However, by 2016, Asimov's habit of groping women was seen as sexual harassment and came under criticism, and was cited as an early example of inappropriate behavior that can occur at science fiction conventions.[182]" 142.115.97.35 (talk) 20:06, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- There is a "sexual harassment" section already. Schazjmd (talk) 20:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- There is indeed, and it isn't hard to find. Look, there it is in the table of contents. You didn't need to do a word search. Richard75 (talk) 00:10, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
Picture used
[edit]Isaac wore big sideburns for most of his adult life. Is there any particular reason to use this atypical image? If not, should we use an image with his common look? Big Money Threepwood (talk) 04:44, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- It is probably because it is the only, or best, free image. Check the Commons category here; this is the only other image that is suitable. MarcGarver (talk) 08:45, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- I found a stack of cc 4.0 non commercial licensed images of him, I've updated the page with one. Please revert if it isn't up to snuff. I think wikimedia has some sort of clipping capability to improve the image I will look into Big Money Threepwood (talk) 07:22, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Non-Commercial No Derivatives License (CC BY-NC-ND) are not acceptable I'm afraid. Wikimedia projects require commercial and derivative licenses. MarcGarver (talk) 12:53, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- I found a stack of cc 4.0 non commercial licensed images of him, I've updated the page with one. Please revert if it isn't up to snuff. I think wikimedia has some sort of clipping capability to improve the image I will look into Big Money Threepwood (talk) 07:22, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
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