Talk:Elizabeth Báthory: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Latest revision as of 18:20, 28 October 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Elizabeth Báthory article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5: 2 months

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Biography: Royalty and Nobility

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.

Crime and Criminal Biography: Serial, mass, and spree killers High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Serial Killer task force (assessed as High-importance).

Hungary Low‑importance

	Hungary portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hungary, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hungary on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HungaryWikipedia:WikiProject HungaryTemplate:WikiProject HungaryHungary
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Slovakia Low‑importance

	Slovakia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Slovakia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Slovakia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SlovakiaWikipedia:WikiProject SlovakiaTemplate:WikiProject SlovakiaSlovakia
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

European history Mid‑importance

	Europe portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the history of Europe on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.European historyWikipedia:WikiProject European historyTemplate:WikiProject European historyEuropean history
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women's History Mid‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

Crystal Ro (2019-11-29). "15 Horrifying Female Serial Killer Wikipedia Pages That Are Not For The Squeamish". Buzzfeed.

Untitled

"Elizabeth Báthory" Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
"Báthory Erzsébet" Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Maintenance tags

I am attempting to address the issues noted by the maintenance tags. I have worked on the neutrality and sourcing issues (so far removing livejournal and pop history sources) and will continue to do so. I wanted to ask here, though, about the citation style tag. I have noticed some citations that do not have complete info; is that what it's referring to? What exactly is "unclear" about the citation style?--MattMauler (talk) 19:19, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 {{Talk header}}
 {{controversial}}
-{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|1=
+{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|listas=Bathory, Elizabeth|vital=yes|living=no|1=
-{{WikiProject Biography|class=C|living=no|royalty-work-group=yes|listas=Bathory, Elizabeth}}
+{{WikiProject Biography|royalty-work-group=yes}}
-{{WikiProject Serial Killer task force|class=C|importance=High}}
+{{WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography|importance=High|serialkiller=yes|serialkiller-imp=High}}
-{{WikiProject Criminal Biography|class=C|importance=High}}
+{{WikiProject Hungary|importance=Low}}
-{{WikiProject Hungary|class=C|importance=Low}}
+{{WikiProject Slovakia|importance=Low}}
-{{WikiProject Slovakia|class=C|importance=Low}}
+{{WikiProject European history|importance=Mid}}
-{{WikiProject European history| class=C| importance=Mid}}
+{{WikiProject Women's History|importance=Mid}}
-{{WikiProject Women's History|class=C|importance=Mid}}
 }}
 {{User:MiszaBot/config
@@ Line 18: / Line 17: @@
 |archive = Talk:Elizabeth Báthory/Archive %(counter)d
 }}
-{{Vital article|level=5|topic=People|subpage=Criminals|class=B}}
 {{Press|author=Crystal Ro|title=15 Horrifying Female Serial Killer Wikipedia Pages That Are Not For The Squeamish|org=Buzzfeed|url=https://www.buzzfeed.com/crystalro/female-serial-killers|date=2019-11-29}}
 __TOC__
@@ Line 25: / Line 23: @@
 * "Elizabeth Báthory" {{Find3|Elizabeth Báthory}}
 * "Báthory Erzsébet" {{Find3|Báthory Erzsébet}}
+== Maintenance tags ==
-== It is a momentous error to treat the legend of Bathory as fact ==
+I am attempting to address the issues noted by the maintenance tags. I have worked on the neutrality and sourcing issues (so far removing livejournal and pop history sources) and will continue to do so. I wanted to ask here, though, about the citation style tag. I have noticed some citations that do not have complete info; is that what it's referring to? What exactly is "unclear" about the citation style?--[[User:MattMauler|MattMauler]] ([[User talk:MattMauler|talk]]) 19:19, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
-The peer-reviewed source by Aleksandra Bartosiewicz from 2018 is an important addition to this article. It was added in [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Elizabeth_Báthory&diff=prev&oldid=1052508249&diffmode=source this edit].  The detailed and well sourced article was written directly in english. Bartosiewicz first covers the ''legends'' surrounding Bathory and then moves on to cover the ''historical facts'' of her life. It is a long article with several sections.  The Wikipedia biography of Bathory should primarly concern itself with the historical facts rather than the ledgends presented as fact.  Much of the existing sourcing in the Wikipedia article is weak and comes from brief blurbs about Bathory from non-academic writers. Bartosiewicz is a very strong source.
-Furthermore, ''we don't know exactly how'' Michael Farin phrased the claims that have been left in the article's lede from his book ''Heroine of horror: the life and work of Elisabeth Báthory in letters, testimonies and fantasy games'' (1989). Did his German get mis-translated? Does his phrasing suggest that it is purported or absolute? It is worth recognizing that Farin's book is interested in subject matter far beyond the historical facts of Bathory's life . . . namely fantasy games. For a book published in 1989, it's not real clear what sort of fantasy games there were to write about at that time in history or how they would be of any use to establishing historical facts about Bathory's life.
-If the strongest sources disagree, editors should not just go with the side they prefer. For those who have yet to review Bartosiewicz, see the section titled "Elisabeth Báthory’s biography according to historical sources" which starts on page 113. [[User:Cedar777|Cedar777]] ([[User talk:Cedar777|talk]]) 20:33, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
-== History.com is not a reliable source ==
-This is what is listed at [[WP:RSP]] for the History Channel and History.com:
- {{tq|"Most editors consider The History Channel generally unreliable due to its poor reputation for accuracy and its tendency to broadcast programs that promote conspiracy theories."}}
-The source "History" is too poor of quality for something [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Elizabeth_Báthory&diff=prev&oldid=1106547479&diffmode=source like this]. Content cited to this source was [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Elizabeth_Báthory&oldid=1050685977 removed once before here] for the same reason, that it is flagged as RED at WP:RSP. Nothing has changed. A consensus of editors deem History to be generally unreliable. [[User:Cedar777|Cedar777]] ([[User talk:Cedar777|talk]]) 23:00, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
-:{{u|TheXuitts}}, there are a number of sources that refer to the accusations against Bathory as alleged, even if you personally disagree that historians are not aligned. There is a brief interview [https://www.vice.com/en/article/ex9awa/inside-the-ruined-castle-of-medieval-serial-killer-elizabeth-bathory here] with [[Tony Thorne]], author of ''Countess Dracula: The Life and Times of Elisabeth Bathory, the Blood Countess'' that covers much of the disputed material. While Vice itself is not a great source (its yellow at WP:RSP), Thorne is notable as a writer and his English language book on Bathory, covers a lot of ground. His words in the Vice interview are worth recognizing and it provides a much more concise summary of his overall views after he spent considerable time translating and studying the records of her life which the Google book preview does less effectively. [[User:Cedar777|Cedar777]] ([[User talk:Cedar777|talk]]) 11:37, 26 August 2022 (UTC)