Talk:The Tell-Tale Heart/Archive 1

Archive 1

Adaptations

Umm... this list of adaptations looks to have spiraled out of control. Are all of these 15-minute adaptations notable? Are the 78-minute films really adaptations or are they more appropriate under "Works inspired"? My suggestion is to only pick out the ones that are worth mentioning and gut the rest. Remember that this shouldn't be an indiscriminate list, like Pokemon trying to catch 'em all. ;) --Midnightdreary 12:29, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Your points are well taken. Does current revision address all concerns? Conrad T. Pino 13:31, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

This is good because it doesn't give excessive weight to adaptations in an article about the story. But, I think more text is needed, and less referencing. Is there an equivalent of a "disambiguation page" on IMDB that lists all the adaptations on the same page? I'm a big fan of having some kind of prose discussion about these sorts of things too, maybe discussing the varying relevance of the adaptations. If nothing else, it's worth noting that some are faithful and short adaptations while others are expanded to full-length feature films (which, really, the original story text would not support). I know, for example, the one by Mark Redfield (the last on the list, I think), re-imagines the story in the Civil War (a time Poe never witnessed) and involves a love triangle of some sort. I'm going to grab a copy of the Poe Cinema book tomorrow and see if there is any information in there discussing any "Tell-Tale Heart" adaptations. --Midnightdreary 13:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Continuing to add text is beyond me as I'm relatively ignorant on both the story and adaptations. The closest page IMDB has is the title search page which is now the 21 count citation source. I've parked the IMDB 21 count enumeration in External links for now. I'd like to keep the enumeration but will defer to your opinion. Conrad T. Pino 14:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Assumed Male Narrator

The story does not implicitly state that the narrator/protagonist is male. I think at the very least this should be stated in the intro before reverting to masculine possessives and descriptors in the plot synopsis. Patrolmanno9 (talk) 21:04, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

(Shrug) It's a masculine language. This was an agreed-upon compromise from our peer review. No offense is meant. Certainly, anonymity makes pronouns ambiguous, but we'd have to do the same for every other anonymous narrator from every other work in literature that's ever been written. That's a lot of work. I wonder why people jump on the gender situation on this work so much more than most every other work of Poe's (very few have named narrators). --Midnightdreary (talk) 21:58, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I think your shrug is exactly why the ambiguous gender should be mentioned- people don't know. People jump on the gender situation on this work so much because it's exceptional among Poe's works in that it has an anonymous narrator that isn't identifiable as male, or at least in his works that are well known. Even if you can prove me wrong on that point with your expertise, if so many people make issue with it on this work, then obviously it has some merit for mention and/or discussion. And English is not nearly masculine enough to use that as an excuse for laziness. 'It' doesn't take much time to throw in 'a' sentence or two to add to 'the' quality of 'this' article.Patrolmanno9 (talk) 22:29, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for coming across as lazy (Please note WP:NPA. As I said before, the previous version of this article made sure to point out that the character was genderless. After a discussion in a peer review, a decision was made to remove it and stick with the (typical) masculine pronouns. If you disagree, feel free to add it in - especially if you can find an analytical source that discusses the gender (even moreso if you can find a source that doesn't use "he" in reference to the narrator). --Midnightdreary (talk) 02:43, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I've inserted a little note at the beginning of the plot summary section that deals with the issue of ambiguous gender and the use of masculine pronouns for ease of description. I'm not sure if it's in the correct wikipedia format or not, so please feel free to correct it if it isn't. --Patrolmanno9 (talk) 01:37, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I think you're on to something... but I wonder if it's easier as a footnote after the first instance of "he" in reference to the narrator? Also, saying "the majority of Poe's narrators" is original research, so we might as well leave that out. I'm going to flip through some publications I have regarding Poe and gender (and similar themes) and see if I can find a deeper discussion of "The Tell-Tale Heart" in particular. --Midnightdreary (talk) 01:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Cool. I'll take the sweeping generalization out but I'll leave it to you to change it to a footnote if you think that's best. --Patrolmanno9 (talk) 04:21, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Is the book good?

Many people find the book weird... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.65.107.128 (talk) 19:06, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

What book? --Midnightdreary 00:10, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I happen to think that this short story is excellent. As for abnormality . . . If it's not weird, then it wasn't written by Poe, I say. Czar Baldy Bald IV (talk) 15:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Publication History

Already mentioned in introductory paragraph, so it seems redundant to me. Maisma gardens (talk) 17:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

As per WP:LEAD, the introduction summarizes the article to follow. So, most of that information will seem redundant. --Midnightdreary (talk) 18:45, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Written in 1843

Sorry to nitpick but it seems unlikely to me that it was written in 1843 if it appeared in the January 1843 edition of a journal. Surely the January edition would have been printed towards the end of December 1842. Or did journals work differently in those days? --Thehalfone (talk) 20:05, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

It's not nitpicking at all - you make a very good point. I will make a quick edit that should be clearer. --Midnightdreary (talk) 01:58, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

The Simpsons

I was told that there was a Simpsons version of the Telltale Heart in a Treehouse of Horror, but it's not noted. Can anyone verify this, or at least let me know what Treehouse of Horror this was so I can look it up on Youtube. --24.192.224.242 23:59, 23 September 2007 (UTC)Hermesscholar

Err... the reference made in the Simpsons is already in the article already, it's just not a Treehouse of Horror episode. --Midnightdreary 00:47, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

It seems that Midnightdreary has removed all the Simpsons references from this article as "unsourced, less than relevant cruft" in this edit 81.197.72.46 (talk) 20:54, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I know, I'm a terrible person. How dare I try to develop an encyclopedia here and not just an indiscriminate collection of information. However, feel free to check out Edgar Allan Poe in television and film and you'll see all is well with the world. --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:24, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Merger

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

I have decided to withdraw the merge proposal of remaining articles to The Tell-Tale Heart. Thank you for your discussions and contributions to these articles, and I will look forward to them for some time. --Gh87 (talk) 23:47, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

---

• Strong oppose Each film article stands up on its own for notability (esp. the Jules Dassin version), and should not be mergered. Lots of other adaptations have their standalone articles (compare films based on Shakespeare's plays, for example). Lugnuts (talk) 08:43, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose I think the article on the story is far too important to have all that other stuff stuck in it as more than just a quick mention. --Midnightdreary (talk) 11:51, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
• Comment I see two opposing comments for some reason; however, I proposed the merge because those articles are way too short and less notable for everybody, even with information that almost no one bothers to care. If opposing the merge, then each of them must be expanded. --Gh87 (talk) 01:02, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure how opposing a merge forces a required expansion. However, I agree that if the other articles are not strong, they should be expanded (if not already, they should be marked stubs, if such is applicable; I haven't looked at them). If the concern is that the film articles lack notability, that is impetus for deletion, not merging. --Midnightdreary (talk) 03:12, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I tagged those articles with {{notability}} within or without {{article issues}}, just in case. They still looked too short, even with {{infobox film}}. --Gh87 (talk) 06:28, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I've ref'd the 1941 film. I'll bring them all to the attention of the film project to see if anyone can expand the others. Thanks! Lugnuts (talk) 08:27, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose I feel I've expanded the article for the 1953 animated adaptation to the point it is entitled to remain as a separate article. I question Gh87's observation that the articles are "less notable for everybody, even with information that almost no one bothers to care," which seems to express a subjective POV. Surely anyone interested in animation will find the information in this particular article, however limited, to be both notable and interesting. LiteraryMaven (talk • contrib) 14:53, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for making The Tell-Tale Heart (1953 film) more informative and notable than its previous versions; I removed {{merge}} from and ended a merge proposal for that page. I still left two to propose a merge with this article because both of them are not notable and informative enough for me, although I see one reference improvement toward the director's debut in The Tell-Tale Heart (1941 film). --Gh87 (talk) 16:23, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Give these articles time. See WP:DEADLINE and WP:DEMOLISH. I'd just hate to see this article watered down with information that only has a vague connection to it. --Midnightdreary (talk) 17:31, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

xkcd

Just a heads-up: There was a reference to this story (as well as to "The Fall of the House of Usher" and Daft Punk) in today's xkcd comic (and a link to this article in the forum post about the strip), so people may want to be ready to revert references to the strip that might be added to the article by overzealous fans, as I realize that it's been quite the problem (especially with the whole malamanteau debate). I am the 0dd1. (talk) 05:27, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Never killed anyone?

My professor spent an entire period breaking it down for us that the narrator couldn't have possibly killed anyone because with the time period this story is based in, it was unlikely he had indoor plumbing, and there's no way he drained the bathtub full of blood within the four hours before the police showed up. That there's no way he had drained the blood and cleaned the tub before they got there, and since they didn't freak out because a bloodspattered house, there's no way the body ever even existed.

I'm kind of new to adding things to Wiki, so I figured I'd bounce this here before just adding it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.216.40.246 (talk) 09:25, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

You'd need a reliable published source for something like that, otherwise it's original research. Your professor is wrong anyway; for one thing, there's no indication what time period the story is based. If you assume it's contemporary to when it was written, indoor plumbing or not, people could still own tubs. The Walt Whitman House in Camden, New Jersey has two of them: one looks like a contemporary tub (made of copper or brass, I believe) and the other looks like one of those outdoor kiddie pools you buy at a toy store. I should say, though, it's an interesting theory. --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:35, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

It is possible I have read a different version than you--there are many, no doubt--but in mine, there is no tub. Mine says he pulled the bed over the body, and then id the corpse under the floorboards. No tub was ever mentioned.

 Jake  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.169.45.99 (talk) 19:54, 16 January 2010 (UTC) 

The body was cut up in A tub. It did not specifically say a bathtub nor did it mention any draining. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.72.113.24 (talk) 03:43, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

My version doesn't mention the body being cut up or a tub and says specifically that there was no blood. The entire corpse was put under the floor boards. He took up 3 planks to do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.19.184.80 (talk) 03:05, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Your version is incomplete; there's a "censored" version floating through schools and libraries which does away with the gruesome stuff (which is, ultimately, relativelytame anyway). --Midnightdreary (talk) 15:33, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

This is a great arguement. A tub is mentioned...but the tub could maybe be outside since a tub in those days didnt mean a stationary one. Maybe a wash tub outside for laundry? The story insinuates it's night time....I think the dismembering was taken place outside. I think info on location would be key here.

Include SpongeBob episode in adaptations?

There was that one episode, with the squeaky boots, that is very, very similar to The Tell-Tale Heart, and I thought it was worth mentioning. CheezerRox4502 (talk) 23:09, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't agree. It's been added and removed several times as WP:TRIVIA. I don't think a Spongebob Squarepants really adds to the understanding of Poe's story. --Midnightdreary (talk) 02:28, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I sorta frowned at the idea of the simpsons adaptation not being mentioned since it was my first understanding of this story as a kid...however...spongebob has never had any subjective information. I feel biased. hah! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.252.171.113 (talk) 23:03, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Spongebob

Okay, so a few editors over the years have continuously removed a reference to Spongebob Squarepants in this article. One anonymous IP editor in the past couple days has decided to override that unspoken consensus and push for Spongebob's inclusion. May I suggest now is a good time for discussion? --Midnightdreary (talk) 16:46, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

The IP editor has responded on my talk page. For ease of discussion, I have transposed below. --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:21, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

The reason I've reverted you is because I dislike you're smart alleck attitude that you're the only one in control of the Poe articles, not to mention how you link multiple times as if anyone other than you is completely incapacitated and needs links to everything YOU think is important. Wikipedia is, as you said yourself, supposed to establish equality between editors but your general demeanor has shown that you only want the section to appear your way regardless of external thought, and I for one do not appreciate it, and it's a pretty sucky way to welcome someone to Wikipedia. 76.125.207.75 (talk) 19:47, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Realized I hadn't responded here (ignoring the personal attacks). Sorry you didn't find my links to relevant Wikipedia policy helpful. Back on topic, the editor has offered no arguments (valid or otherwise) regarding the content of the article. --Midnightdreary (talk) 16:13, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

The heart

From first reading (okay, second -- first reading was in childhood) I assumed that the hideous heartbeat is supposed to be the narrator's own. One generally doesn't hear one's own heartbeat, but in moments of extreme stress, with norepinephrine sharpening every sense to a razor's edge (and regular epinephrine stimulating the heart itself), it becomes easily audible. 71.248.115.187 (talk) 00:57, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

May have been inspired by Peter Robinson's 1840 Murder

What do you guys think of this? I'll link this Murder but also google itWikiOriginal-9 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 14:38, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

I know of at least three towns who have a local story that inspired "The Tell-Tale Heart". Unless Poe himself admitted to it, these are all speculative and, therefore, not verifiable. --Midnightdreary (talk) 16:14, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Influence on Dostoevsky

According to Mario Praz this tale can be seen as an influence on Dostoevsky. In his article on Poe contained in the Enciclopedia Italiana, he wrote: "Un racconto come The Telltale Heart riecheggia nell'opera del Dostoevskij" (A tale like The Tell-Tale Heart re-echoes in the work of Dostoevsky). I suppose he referred especially to Crime and Punishment. I feel this is a remarkable observation, deserving of being incorporated here. Any suggestion? 82.51.51.85 (talk) 12:53, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Well, I think we'd need a more reliable source than an online encyclopedia. If you can find one, I'd say it's worth incorporating. --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:40, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

No sir, you got it wrong; it is not merely an online encyclopedia at random, it is the most prestigious, reliable italian encyclopedia, originally published on paper and later turned into an online edition, similarly as the Encyclopedia Britannica. And the article is written by a well known, respected scholar. Please give a look to the above provided (wiki)links. Lastly, just to make things clear, nobody needs any authorization to publish contents here; I promoted this discussion solely for a matter of courtesy or, rather, lack of boldness. 82.51.51.85 (talk) 16:47, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

I've noticed that the entry for this work in Russian language Wikipedia has a whole section dedicated to Poe's influence on Dostoevsky with plenty of cited sources. --82.51.51.85 (talk) 17:17, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

It's not the prestige or the reliability of the encyclopedia that matters, or even who wrote it; that it's an encyclopedia is what makes it problematic. Nowhere is that considered a good source. But certainly see what you can glean from the Russian Wiki. --Midnightdreary (talk) 00:33, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm astonished and speechless about what I've read. That's all. --82.51.51.85 (talk) 11:47, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

I assume this is because you are unfamiliar with how Wikipedia works. If this connection between the two authors was notable enough to merit inclusion here on Wikipedia, there would be multiple sources to support it. You should have no trouble finding several sources and, in fact, you probably should so as not to rely on a single source. Good luck editing. --Midnightdreary (talk) 12:55, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

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Citations Needed

Two claims need citations: "The Tell-Tale Heart" is widely considered a classic of the Gothic fiction genre and is one of Poe's most famous short stories." "Like many characters in Gothic fiction, he allows his nerves to dictate his nature." Oeparker1 (talk) 01:33, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Horror Comic pastiche

A horror comic in the 1950's, before such publications were banned, has a pastiche in which the heart is reallyeating and making noise. Anybody know anything more about this? Das Baz, aka Erudil 18:02, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Its a comic published by The Comics Code Authority that did a couple of Poe adaptations (using that term very very freely), but its not really a full adaptation so much as bits and pieces taken from the story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snatoli (talk • contribs) 17:28, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Reminder, this is not a general page for discussion on the topic, but a forum to come to consensus on edits to the article. --Midnightdreary (talk) 11:20, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Works inspired

A huge portion from the "Works inspired" section was removed - though I understand the basic reasoning for it, I disagree and would recommend those lines be put back in (incidentally, I do agree with the removal of the entire "Analysis" section, which was clearly original research). Maybe some clean up is required on those works that reference "The Tell-Tale Heart," but I'm not sure why an episode of the Simpsons, which clearly does reference the story, should be removed as "speculative" - how do you cite something like that? I do agree, however, that sometimes people really stretch it to add to this list. Thoughts? -Midnightdreary 15:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Here is most of what I removed and why:

• "The 1953 animated short is featured on the two disc version of the DVD Hellboy." - well, not really notable, its like saying its available at wal-mart really.
• "Also, the song "Who Am I? (Tripitena's Song)" has the line: "I'd like to solve the mysteries of life by cutting someone's throat or removing their heart. You'd like to see it beat."" - again not really needed because we already mentioned Lou Read, we don't really need that much detail.
• "In 1995, Mojo Press and artist Bill Fountain published a collection of graphic versions of Poe stories under the title The Tell Tale Heart, featuring a female character as the tortured narrator of the title story." - who? not-notable, doesn't have a wiki article
• "An episode of The Simpsons ("Lisa's Rival," September 11, 1994) featured a "Tell-Tale Heart"-inspired act of revenge between Lisa and a new student (voiced by Winona Ryder)." - Well, who says it was in the episode and who says that it is inspired by the Tell-Tale Heart?
• "The season 1 episode titled "The Telltale Head" is a reference to "The Tell-Tale Heart." - again, says who?
• "An episode of SpongeBob SquarePants, Squeaky Boots, has Mr. Krabs burying a pair of squeaky boots underneath the floorboards, only to begin hearing the noise more and more before snapping and digging up, boiling, and eating the boots." - again, these are really loose correlations here. People don't come to this article looking for sponge bob episodes that have some really loose correlation to the story
• "On the Insane Clown Posse's 1995 LP, The Riddle Box, the song "Ol' Evil Eye" is based on the story, and even has quotes of the story read aloud." - Unsourced
• "A portion of the 1995 computer game The Dark Eye requires the player to enact the plot of "The Tell-Tale Heart" from the point of view of either the story's narrator or the old man." - unsourced
• "A Tiny Toons Halloween special had a "kiddie" version of the story. Plucky Duck destroys Hamton's vacuum cleaner to stop the sound it makes." - unsourced, loose connection

So, while I understand what you are saying, most 'pop culture' sections I see for anything are like this. People constantly add stuff that they personally feel is an important pop reference to something when it is not or even can not be proven to be. NOW, that being said, if an episode of something is a remake of the tell-tale heart or there is an interview with someone that says it was based on TTTH then it could be cited and added. Just my two cents, but I would like to see cites before adding stuff to these types of lists. --Chuck Sirloin 16:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, so looking at the wiki article for "Lisa's Rival," I can see the connection, so I am cool putting that one back in. --Chuck Sirloin 16:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I thought I already responded to this, but apparently I must have just previewed. ;) My concern is that legitimate references in pop culture are hard to cite; the sources are self-refle<style>span.GerbrantEditRegexReplaceHit{font-weight:bold;background:lightsteelblue}span.GerbrantEditRegexReplaceHitOff{font-weight:bold;background:mistyrose}span.GerbrantEditRegexReplaceMaskFailed{font-weight:normal;color:red}</style>xive (i.e. to find why the Simpsons episode mentioned refers to Tell-Tale Heart, just watch that episode... it's not in a textbook or anything). But, with that said, and based on the most recent edit to the page, these pop references are going to keep pouring in. PLEASE, people, at least give us some context to these references! Was it a joke? Was there dialogue? Was it clearly marked as a reference or are you just making an assumption? etc. -Midnightdreary 21:03, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree this information is very well typed XxSavageWriterXX (talk) 16:13, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Recent tag

A couple of tags have been recently added to the article. I would hope the editor would provide further information about his/her concerns so that they can be addressed. Currently, it is tagged as a copy/paste violation. I have been working on this article for years, with multiple sources, and not sure I understand. Which section is believed to be copy/pasted, and from where? --Midnightdreary (talk) 19:28, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Recent edits

I added backgroufn information about the narrators guilt and why the narrator felt that way and what instigated those feelings. I felt this was important because there was a contradiction that can be found in the article; I pointed it out in my explanation. I also added why the narrator confessed and gave up his secrecy to the police by saying the body of the old man was underneath the floorboards. I went into explanation about this and why the narrator felt compelled to confess. This addition ties into the contradiction and is important when trying to analyze why the narrator has done the ungodly acts committed. Hziegerhofer (talk) 21:53, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Gender of narrator

Given this is not known, I wonder whether it would be appropriate to change the masculine pronouns to singular they? 94.15.96.155 (talk) 18:42, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Given the time period this was written in, I do not think it is necessary to change the masculine pronouns to "they" whether we know the true gender of the narrator or not. Aleross11 (talk) 18:19, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

This section is stylistically and grammatically extremely awkward with the constant use of third person plural pronouns to refer to the narrator. Even if the gender of the narrator is not directly stated in the text, the majority of readers will interpret the narrator as male, especially when one considers the statistical probability of the murderer being male. By far more murders are committed by men than by women, and the nature of the murder in the tale suggests more likely a male perpetrator. Female murderers in 19th century fiction would be more likely to use a knife or dagger, or poison, not pulling someone out of bed and suffocating the victim with a mattress. In addition, the narrator insists that he is not a madman ("would a madman have been so wise as this?"); he does not say mad woman or mad person. I think the readers who suggest that we do not know the gender of the narrator are ignoring significant clues. Grafplaten (talk) 06:53, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the comment. I believe your assessment is entirely speculative and including it would be a violation of WP:OR. --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:53, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

The gender of the narrator is directly correlated with the point of view (1st person) in which the story is told. We can draw many inferences based on pronouns, and what we know about gender role at the time this story was written, that this is more likely to be a male narrator rather than a female.Marc201 (talk) 12:40, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

I agree, thinking about the way the old man was murder would point better towards a male narrator. The narrator tells of the way he killed the old man and then cut him into pieces to bury under the floor which takes a lot of effort and is quite violent. So it would make better sense that the narrator is male.Darla0421 (talk) 18:54, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Darla, and thank you for your recent edits. Your comment here is a personal opinion and, therefore, expresses original research. Please remember the Wikipedia project is based on verifiability and reliable sources, not debates of various users' opinions. I hope those links are helpful. --Midnightdreary (talk) 21:01, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Overview-Plot Summary

The overview and plot summary start almost exactly the same. The overview should be cut out and have the information transferred in the plot summary and analysis. The word "he" is brought up many times but the narrators gender is never revealed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericdeonarine (talk • contribs) 17:43, November 20, 2016 (UTC)

The concern over the gender is related in the article already. Changing "he" to "it" is not an improvement and only makes this more confusing for a reader (it also dehumanizes the character, which draws forward other issues). The lede seems redundant because it is. That section is implicitly meant to preview what is to come. Removing the lede, as you seem to suggest, would lower the quality of this article. Perhaps for your project you could pick something that's not already in decent shape? --Midnightdreary (talk) 01:32, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

I agree that the overview and plot summary are very similar. It's unnecessary to have both with the same information. Abbeyflonc (talk) 17:44, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

The plot summary mentions that the narrator is suffering from a disease; in parenthesis is says nervousness. Nervousness isn't a disease, but I do agree that this is seen throughout the text. The narrator shows narcissistic characteristics. The plot focuses more on the actions of the narrator, instead of the events that occured. This story is one that proves his insanity as it goes on. (Kaitlyncons1 (talk) 00:06, 5 April 2017 (UTC))

I don't intend on making a major edit, but does anybody else support that the final sentence in the plot summary might be confusing to those who haven't actually read Poe's short story? Considering the fact that we refer to his body as "remains," is the heartbeat of the old man beneath the floorboard rather more symbolic of the narrator's guilt as opposed to one that's literal? Smxash39c (talk) 20:20, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

You're veering into analysis rather than mere plot summary. Interpretations, including symbolism, is more appropriate in an analysis section. With that said, however, you draw attention to the fact that the story does not, in fact, actually reveal any physical remains at the end of the text; that seems to be an assumption on the part of the summary writer. --Midnightdreary (talk) 23:49, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

In the overview I feel that the fact that the body was dismembered in the tub would be an important bit of information to add in to prove that the main character was a little off his rocker.(Anbous (talk) 02:41, 18 November 2020 (UTC))

I agree. The narrator is proud of the fact that he was able to dismember the old man without spilling any blood outside of the tub. This shows that he had no remorse at first about killing the old man. This also provides evidence that the narrator was irrational. Abbeyflonc (talk) 17:16, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

In the Plot Summary it states how the narrator yells as he goes to smother the old man but in reality the story says that the old man let out a shreak before he was smothered with the pillow. (Anbous (talk) 02:55, 18 November 2020 (UTC))

I believe that the introduction will flow better if "first published in 1843" starts the sentence.Damaris36 (talk) 18:12, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

I have started by rewording the first sentence.Damaris36 (talk) 18:18, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree that "first published in 1843" would make this sentence flow better if put at the beginning. But, the publishing year is mentioned again in the second paragraph and fits better, so it is not needed in the first sentence.Kjoyc1 (talk) 19:49, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Much of the plot summary is closely paraphrased and would be better off as quotes.Damaris36 (talk) 18:12, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

I know you folks are in an echo chamber because you are either sockpuppets or required to comment on talk pages for a class, but I would highly recommend you familiarize yourselves with Wikipedia policies. For example, consider the policy on the lede section, which likely would help you understand why that section is intentionally redundant. --Midnightdreary (talk) 12:34, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

The plot summary is slightly chopping with an over repetition of words. Fixing this would allow clarity in the flow of the summary.

Organization

The organization of this article could be improved, these changes would be small but could make an impact. The publication history and adaption should be put in front of everything else as it makes the rest of the article flow much better. It allows for the reader to understand the biography of the work and how others tried to adapt it before delving into the text itself. --Gcamp02 (talk) 20:51, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

I believe the format is in keeping with the guidance provided by this article's associated Wikiprojects and, further, follows the same pattern as other short story articles in Wikipedia (including all those by Poe). I feel that it flows very logically this way. Why would adaptations of the work be mentioned before a summary of the work itself, for example? --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:58, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree, and would like to add that there are redundancies between the plot summary and the analysis.Damaris36 (talk) 21:24, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

I feel that it would also prove useful if the analysis is split into subsections.Damaris36 (talk) 22:21, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Can you give more specific examples of the "redundancies" you see? The plot section first introduces the story in an objective manner; the analysis than provides a deeper understanding of those same plot points, as it should. Can you also clarify why your personal opinion on the article's organization outweigh the long-standing standards set by precedent with associated Wikiprojects? --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:50, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree that there could be more organization, specifically separation of ideas or content. One example of this could be adding a specific section for symbols. 198.254.26.2 (talk) 18:28, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

The Eye

Could it be that it is a cataract? Coolio 226 (talk) 17:23, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

The vulture is well known for death. They are usually portrayed as following around the dying and visualizing them as prey. "Whether or not the old man is a vulture-like person" it can be interpreted that "the narrator is afraid of the 'vulture eye'" and leaves us wondering "does this mean the narrator is dead or almost dead"? http://www.shmoop.com/tell-tale-heart/old-man-eye-symbol.html Gpanullo (talk) 17:18, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Reminder, this is not a general page for discussion on the topic, but a forum to come to consensus on edits to the article. --Midnightdreary (talk) 11:20, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Just some insight on the possible reasoning behind the use of the eye as first stated in this section Gpanullo (talk) 17:11, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Much they the Great Gatsby, The "Eye" symbolizes how people are being watched, and judged. The young man in the story simply can't take the weight of constantly being watched and thus loses his mind and kills the old man.Marc201 (talk) 13:08, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

I agree with the idea that the man doesn't like being watched but I disagree with the fact that the younger man loses his mind because he is being watched. I believe that the younger man was insane long before he thought of killing the old man and what was going on inside his head was a symptom of a pre-existing madness that pushed him to murder the old man.Darla0421 (talk) 19:34, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Are you sure that this is the specific reason why the man kills the old man? Because the man doesn't want to be watched? I viewed the story as the man is the one watching the old mans eye. Since the man is watching the old man, and the man is unaware of this, the blue eye is being drawn to the man. Making the man think that the old man knows his killer is in the room taunting him to come out from hiding. I believe that this is why the man finally follows through with his killing; because he can't take the taunting anymore by the old mans blue eye. 2601:199:4301:6260:F854:FC01:5EF3:630D (talk) 20:56, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for sharing your personal opinion but please be aware that it is not relevant to this or any other Wikipedia article. Please read Wikipedia's policy on original research. --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:16, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

The eye is an important symbol in the short story, although to support claims there should be cited information due to the ambiguity nature. 198.254.26.2 (talk) 18:31, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Sockpuppets?

Hello, anyone who is seeing this. I don't know how to proceed so I'm starting here. There seems to be several accounts that I suspect of sockpuppetry that are editing this talk page and replying to one another's comments, occasionally making minor edits to the article itself. They are behaving similarly on a few other pages in a clear pattern (including the article on Jack London's "To Build a Fire" and other American short story articles). I have attempted to communicate on a couple of their user talk pages but have not heard responses. Does anyone know how to report or investigate this? --Midnightdreary (talk) 21:45, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

This page has become very difficult to watch. These suspected socks are just writing back and forth to one another. If there was a way to lock the article while we sort out the sockpuppet situation, that would be helpful. --Midnightdreary (talk) 20:30, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Analysis

There are some problems with the sentence structure in some of the paragraph and I plan of fixing that. Priyankirana26 (talk) 20:03, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

In the third paragraph of the Analysis section the last few sentences are very repetitive. (Anbous (talk) 03:01, 18 November 2020 (UTC))

I agree, instead of having this paragraph devoted to talking about their "innocence" and trying to "prove sanity", it can be incorporated between the rest of the Analysis. Many other the other paragraphs mention the narrators being insane and evidence why.Kjoyc1 (talk) 19:59, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

In the 5th paragraph there is a large part about Deathwatch beetles but there is only one sentence referring to the fact that the heart beats could be narrators own. It is possible that due to anxiety the narrators heart was beating fast enough for him to hear it and his mind didn't register that it was in-fact his own heart beat and not the old mans. (Anbous (talk) 03:09, 18 November 2020 (UTC))

In the 6th paragraph there should be more of a connection between the narrator having paranoid schizophrenia and the plot of the story. The paragraph is quick to debunk this idea but Poe may have observed behavior similar to this without knowing what it was and decided to write about it. (Anbous (talk) 03:12, 18 November 2020 (UTC))

In the 1st paragraph there should be more about the significance of the lack of a reliable narrator, and how Poe uses this concept frequently.198.254.26.2 (talk) 19:10, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Additional information regarding paranoid schizophrenia was added in the smaller paragraph already referring to the psychological disorder. The same source as the original was utilized. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nick.b23 (talk • contribs) 19:07, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree, in order for the reader to understand why he could be suffering from this, more information and connections must be added to this section about paranoid schizophrenia. Kjoyc1 (talk) 20:25, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

This section on analysis seems too long. It would be better if it was split up into different parts. It starts with questioning the narrator's gender then goes on to psychological disorders.Gmora1011 (talk) 14:21, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree, adding a section on possible mental illnesses of the narrator such as paranoid schizophrenia, would make the analysis section a bit shorter.Kjoyc1 (talk) 20:03, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree that mental illness should be spoken about in this analysis. Rustyboy23 (talk) 22:03, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

I believe the structure is slightly hard to follow and lacks organization. Using headings for each idea could be beneficial198.254.26.2 (talk) 18:25, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

ENGL1121 Hi, I added an interpretation from English Professor of South Dakota, Paul Witherington: Witherington, Paul. "The Accomplice in "The Tell-Tale Heart"" (PDF). Univeristy of Victoria Database. UVIC. Retrieved 25 April 2021.. 148.59.24.7 (talk) 23:53, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

So this is for a course after all? Tell your instructor to assign a different article. This one is overedited already. --Midnightdreary (talk) 00:45, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

The articles are not assigned, we are allowed to choose which ones we would like to contribute to, I would prefer it if you dont gatekeep this wikipedia article by deleting new interpretations, so that my contribution is seen. 198.254.26.2 (talk) 01:14, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

I added an interpretation made by James Gargano. This will help the readers to understand Poe's style of reading while reading the analysis of "The Tell- Tale Heart".Kjoyc1 (talk) 00:07, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

I've removed it. Your addition did not note if this interpretation was relevant to "The Tell-Tale Heart" or not. Also: No need to announce this stuff on a talk page, especially in a section created in 2017. --Midnightdreary (talk) 00:45, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Musical Adaptions

I've come across quite a few musical works based on the Poe tale. I'm wondering if I should simply add them to the Adaptation section, or does it warrant its own section: Musical Adaptations? A few examples:

• Composer Roger Zare wrote a musical adaptation for octet based on the Poe story. It was written for the SONAR new music ensemble and had its premiere on May 8, 2015 at Baltimore Theatre Project in Baltimore, Maryland.
• In 2010, composer wrote piece for string ensemble entitled: The Evil Eye and the Hideous Heart. It was commissioned by the Lake Zurich Middle School South in Lake Zurich, Illinois.
• Composer Michael Story wrote a musical adaptation for concert band entitled The Tell-Tale Heart".
• In 2020, composer Graham Plowman released the album: The Yellow Sign - Orchestral Horror Music Inspired by the Works of H.P. Lovecraft, Robert W. Chambers and Edgar Allan Poe. The track The Tell-Tale Heart is based on the tale by Poe.

I welcome suggestions on their inclusion. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 02:28, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

None of these sound particularly helpful in understanding the story and, as you know, you would need reliable sources to back up the claims. Have you considered Edgar Allan Poe in music? --Midnightdreary (talk) 21:01, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ericdeonarine.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 11:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Beating of the heart

In a couple of spots, this article states that "the narrator hears the old man's heart beating". I don't think that's accurate. As a reader (of the short story), we are not sure if the narrator hears (A) the old man's heart beating; or (B) his own -- the narrator's -- heart beating. I think it's an intentional ambiguity that Poe leaves in the story. I (and many other experts) believe that the insane narrator hears his own heart pounding -- due to his nervousness and excitement -- yet mistakenly believes that he is hearing the old man's heart pounding. Thus, the article should reword these sections. It should not say "the narrator hears the old man's heart beating". But, rather, "the narrator believes -- or claims -- to hear the old man's heart beating". A small -- but significant -- fix. Thanks. 32.209.69.132 (talk) 05:17, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

This particular point being ambiguous is the most important part of the story so it's hardly an "expert" opinion. This is vaguely addressed in the lede, but the description here merely reflects the original text. Anything beyond showing that the narrator hears the beating heart at face value would be interpretive and, therefore, be analysis rather than plot summary and would require a citation. --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:48, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Not true. This article is summarizing the story. It is not directly quoting from the story. Those are two different things. For example, in the plot summary it says: The narrator hears the old man's heart beating. It is stated as fact. I am suggesting that it should be re-worded as The narrator claims that he hears the old man's heart beating or The narrator states that he hears the old man's heart beating or some such. It does not require a citation. This is my suggestion. But -- I forgot -- you clearly "own" this article. 32.209.69.132 (talk) 06:21, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry you feel that I am claiming ownership over this article. I am not. I genuinely thought you came to the talk page to discuss this point and I was providing my thoughts based on several years of experience on this project. My only goal is to support your edit suggestions in a way that aligns with Wiki policies. --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:46, 22 November 2023 (UTC)