Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

This page is for urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems.

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Disruptive editing and WP:TALKNO by User:AnonMoos

The main issue with this editor at the moment is disruptive editing based on continuous abuse of WP:TALKNO and failure to get the point. Issues began when this editor removed 5000+ bytes of sourced material. They did it again and again and again.

Instead of starting a discussion on the talk page of the article, the user came to my talk page to let me know of their opinion of my contributions. When I started a discussion on the talk page of the relevant article, the user edited my signature and changed the heading of the discussion I started according to their POV. When I let them know that this was highly inappropriate according to WP:TALKNO, both in that discussion and on their talk page, they responded on my talk page stating ever since the stupid Wikipedia Dec. 2019 encryption protocol upgrade, to able to edit or view Wikipedia at all from my home computer, I have to use an indirect method which involves a non-fully-Unicode-compliant tool. I couldn't even really see your signature that way, and so didn't know to try to avoid changing it, which I had never heard of. In any case, they kept reverting the content supported by the reliable source, they also kept attempting to apply their POV to the discussion heading again and again and again. I finally explained that I had sought a third opinion and that they should refrain from changing the heading again in order to preserve the integrity of the link, and they went ahead and changed it again anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by إيان (talk • contribs) 15:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

The other user in this case is User:AnonMoos? This looks like a content dispute over whether the article is on the English version of a German-Arabic dictionary or the dictionary itself. Secretlondon (talk) 15:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes the is indeed about User:AnonMoos. I see the content dispute as stemming from the fundamental conduct issue, which has manifested itself most egregiously with insisting on violating WP:TALKNO repeatedly even after I explained that I had sought a third opinion and that they should refrain from changing the heading again in order to preserve the integrity of the link, after which they went ahead and changed it again anyway. إيان (talk) 16:00, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

The heading dispute is between a date heading, and a descriptive heading? that's not really reformulating your entry. Secretlondon (talk) 17:44, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

It's a conduct issue. إيان (talk) 19:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

But what conduct issue? TALKNO doesn't forbid changing headings. In fact the wider guideline makes it clear it's perfectly acceptable "Because threads are shared by multiple editors (regardless of how many have posted so far), no one, including the original poster, "owns" a talk page discussion or its heading. It is generally acceptable to change headings when a better heading is appropriate, e.g., one more accurately describing the content of the discussion or the issue discussed, less one-sided, more appropriate for accessibility reasons, etc. Whenever a change is likely to be controversial, avoid disputes by discussing a heading change with the editor who started the thread, if possible. It can also sometimes be appropriate to merge entire sections under one heading (often preserving the later one as a subheading) if their discussions are redundant." To be blunt, if you don't want editors changing the headings of sections you start, don't use such terrible headings. I definitely recommend you stay away from ANI since changing headings is quite common here. Nil Einne (talk) 06:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Actually I missed the signature issue. That's far more concerning unfortunately lost IMO partly because you concentrated on silly stuff. Nil Einne (talk) 06:29, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

‎إيان: I suggest you stop messing around with the section heading since it's a distraction which could easily lead to you being blocked. But if AnonMoos changes your signature again, report it and only that without silliness about section headings, mentioning that they've been warned about it before if needed. Nil Einne (talk) 06:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

I wrote a long and detailed explanation on his user talk page as to why the date-only header is basically useless in that context, but he's still for some peculiar reason fanatically determined to keep changing it back. Frankly, I've basically run out of good-faith reasons that make any sense -- except of course, his apparently unshakable belief that he has certain talk-page "rights", which according to Wikipedia guidelines he does not in fact have (outside of his own personal user talk page)... AnonMoos (talk) 23:10, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

@AnonMoos: I don't see a problem with changing the heading but why on earth did you change their signature multiple times [1] [2]? That is indeed a clear violation of WP:TPOC since the signature was perfectly valid per WP:NLS. In fact your change was far worse since it changed a perfectly valid signature which would take other editors to the contributor's talk page and user page into an invalid one which lead no where. If you're using some sort of plugin which does that, it's your responsibility to manage it better so it doesn't do that ever again especially if you're going to edit talk pages where it might be common. If you're doing that intentionally, I suggest you cut it out or expect to be indeffed. Nil Einne (talk) 06:48, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

User:AnonMoos, this is not good to see. Don't rewrite or reformat other editor's signatures. There is no reason to be doing this unless you are trying to provoke the other editor. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

For what it's worth, AnonMoos stated earlier that the changing of the signature was a unintentional technical issue, due to his use of some "non-standard tool" in accessing the internet [3]. This seems plausible, as similar apparently unintentional changes to non-Ascii character data have happened in edits of his before (e.g. [4]). But if he knew of this issue, it's rather disappointing he let it happen again some days later [5]. Equally disappointing is the extremely aggressive rhetoric and acerbic tone with which he has been escalating this essentially harmless, good-faith content dispute from the beginning. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

I just can't fathom what tool they're using to get around the HTTPS requirement to edit Wikipedia securely. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 17:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Should be impossible as it's required to even access the site in the first place according to WP:SECLakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 16:41, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Looking at his talk page it's been going back to at least 2011[6]LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 16:17, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Guys, I do not deliberately set out to modify signatures, and when it happens, I am not usually aware of doing so. As I've already explained before in several places, since the December 2019 encryption protocol upgrade (NOT 2011!), the only way I can edit (or view) Wikipedia at all from home is by an indirect method which is not fully Unicode-compliant. To change this, I would have to get a completely different type of Internet connection, which would permanently disconnect my older computer, which I still use almost every day.

Meanwhile, this thread has been set up so I can't add a comment to it from home without affecting Unicode characters, so I was unable to reply here for 36 hours or so. If I'm silent in the future, it will be for the same reason. AnonMoos (talk) 01:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia uses Unicode characters (UTF-8 encoding). Anyone who cannot edit without corrupting such characters should not edit. Johnuniq (talk) 03:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Whatever, -- I was using them perfectly fine until December 2019, and still use them perfectly fine on public WiFi, but in December 2019 a requirement was imposed that you can't access Wikipedia at all unless you can handle encryption algorithms and protocols that weren't introduced until the mid-2010s. I have a 2012 web browser on my home computer that handles UTF-8 just fine, but 2012 simply wasn't good enough for the Wikipedia developers -- you had to have software that was almost up to date as of 2019, or you would be abruptly totally cut off. If you can drag up the relevant archive of Village Pump Technical, I and others complained at the time, but our concerns were not listened to or considered in any way. The basic attitude of the developers was that if you weren't running almost up-to-date software, then screw you, and if your computer is not capable of running almost up-to-date software, then double screw you! The change was announced for January 2020, but was actually implemented in mid-December 2019, apparently because they were so eager and anxious to start excluding people. It wasn't one of Wikipedia's finer moments. Since that time, I have had to use an indirect method to access Wikipedia from my home computer, and I don't feel particularly guilty about it (other people's obnoxious behaviors in 2019 have done away with most of the guilt I might feel)... AnonMoos (talk) 20:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

...HTTPS was created in 1994, and became an official specification in 2000, not "mid-2010s". I'm not sure what 2012 web browser you're using, but if it's not able to handle HTTPS not being able to access Wikipedia with it is the least of your browsing concerns, given that 85-95% of the World Wide Web defaults to it now. Also I hate to think of how many security holes your ancient computer has. I'm going to be honest: with a brower setup that old it isn't safe for you to be on the web at all, and the security hole that lets you access Wikipedia without using a secure connection should be fixed, because that is not working as intended and is - as mentioned - a security hole. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:18, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

You unfortunately don't know what you're talking about. New ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL METHODS have been introduced within HTTPS from time to time. I was using HTTPS perfectly happily until December 2019, when the developers arbitrarily ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS. AnonMoos (talk) 00:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

And even leaving that aside, as Johnuniq mentions - if you can't edit without corrupting Unicode characters, and by your own admission you don't know when it happens, you shouldn't be editing. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:20, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

This is probably a reference to when Wikipedia started requiring TLS 1.2 (because earlier versions were deprecated). Anyone who was/is still on Windows XP at that point couldn't connect any more. MrOllie (talk) 01:29, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not talking about when the update happening, I'm talking about how you have known about this issue, and have been getting complainants about it since 2011and are still not taking any steps to do anything about it. What kind of internet connection would not support your PC? What on earth are you even using? Dial-Up? Because that still is supported by even Windows 10. LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 02:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

:::Also, how did you see me saying "this has happened since 2011" as me saying that the update happened in 2011? Can you clarify. LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 03:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

The problem didn't start in 2011, and I have no idea what you're referring to when you mention 2011. The problem started in December 2019 when the developers arbitrarily imposed new ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS... AnonMoos (talk) 00:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Apologies. I was extremely tired when I wrote both above. I have striken the date parts. Rest of my comments still stand. LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 01:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

None of this matters

I don't care what tool this guy uses or what his excuse is. If he can't edit without screwing up people's sigs, then he must not edit. AnonMoos shouls consider himself on notice now that if one of his edits messes stuff up one more time, he'll be blocked until he can give assurance that he's come into the 21st century. EEng 18:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

That's nice -- and also totally inaccurate. I was in the 21st century, and using 2012 tools, up until December 2019, when the developers pitchforked me backwards by arbitrarily imposing HTTPS ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS which my home computer hardware is not able to run. Notice that I had no problem complying with character-set handling -- the problem is with arbitrary ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS. AnonMoos (talk) 00:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

The century imagery is irrelevant. You have been warned. EEng 03:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

That was six years ago, which is IMO about 3-4 years too long to keep using it as an excuse. Technology changes over time, so whatever this non-standard thing you think you need to do to edit here, it may be time to make a choice. Zaathras (talk) 00:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

As I said, to fix the problem, I would have to get a completely different type of Internet connection which would permanently disconnect my old computer, which I still use almost every single day. I would basically have to change my workflow and overall habits/methods of working because of an arbitrary decision by Wikipedia developers about encryption protocol updates. Anyway, when editing through public WiFi, I'm 100% Unicode compliant, and by exercising a little prudence, I can also avoid most problems when working from home. If I was constantly mangling Unicode right and left, there would have been a chorus of complaints long before now. But occasionally I can't anticipate a problem... AnonMoos (talk) 01:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

And just to say for the third time: you're out of chances. "Occassionally" is too often. Once more is too often. And if and when that happens, your attitude of entitlement displayed here will pretty much ensure an indefinite block. EEng 03:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Think it's time to draft up a formal proposal at this point? LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 18:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't think that's necessary. The key isn't formally deciding the criterion for blocking (because that's obvious to everyone) but rather detecting the next incident. Best way to do that for everyone gathered here to watchlist User talk:AnonMoos. Sooner or later, futher trouble will show up there. EEng 21:31, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

If you have DSL or even DialUp. That still works with modern machines. LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 01:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Heck, I am on DSL (and have been since, if I recall right, 2008). I have no idea what sort of ancient Internet connection AnonMoos is claiming to be using, but it's clearly one that was already obsolete before this change he's still up in arms about six years later was made. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Not to mention it would STILL be supported these days. It's literally right there when you click wifi/network settings in Windows 10. LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 18:20, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Why do you contend it was arbitrary? Usually there is a reasonable basis for updating HTTPS Encryption Protocols (i.e. security). Isonomia01 (talk) 18:21, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

• The response by AnonMoos to feedback about this problem is bizarre. I don't really care what the excuse or the history behind it. If you are unwilling to edit Wikipedia using tools that work in 2024 then you should stop editing. The behavior is completely unnecessary and it seems like you don't understand the disruption. Nemov (talk) 14:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

• AnonMoos hasn't really explained in any detail what their technical limitations are. They don't have to, but we can't really give advice otherwise. If as others have suggested their computer can't negotiate TLS 1.2, I'm surprised that they're able to use any websites at all from that computer. Requiring TLS 1.2 is not controversial; Wikipedia wasn't doing anything unusual in dropping TLS 1.0/1.1 around that time. Mackensen (talk) 15:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

• If it's that much of a problem for his computer, go and buy a new computer. It would certainly be better than whining about how Wikipedia broke his ability to edit without screwing things up for other users.Insanityclown1 (talk) 07:06, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Meh. None of this matters. Signatures sometimes get accidentally fucked up. This is an encyclopedia, not a forum, and this signature thing is not a real disruption to the creation of encyclopedic content. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 07:21, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

While true, it's still a violation of WP:TPO, and if it's accidentally changing characters in signatures, who knows what else it might be doing that isn't getting caught or reported? - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 07:27, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

What it is accidentally changing is Arabic characters to Latin characters, and probably all non-Latin characters to Latin characters. That has the potential to destroy substantial amounts of content. Robert McClenon (talk) 06:51, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

It is safe to assume there more than a few of the editors taking part in this discussion have years and decades of technological experience under their belts, myself included. I do not think The Accused is straight-up lying about the technical hurdle, but clinging to the "I refuse to change my system of operation, therefore it's Wikipedia's fault for (6 years ago) making the change!" excuse is the real problem here - this is at the heart a behavioral discussion, not a technical one. Consistently violating the norms of the community is indeed a real disruption to the creation of encyclopedic content. Zaathras (talk) 16:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

It's not inherently about the signatures. It's that he's stubbornly insisting on using an outdated system that introduces errors into other content. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 17:40, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

agree on this. Incidental changing of signayures due to the tech issue is not a small problem itself but that clearly has potential to impact a much wider range of mainspace content. I have a hard time believing that there is not a browser that supports https and can run on a decade old computer (something like Opera even). Claiming inability to switch or upgrade needs to be explained in detail or otherwise this has potential to be a bigger problem. Masem (t) 17:55, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

A Slightly Different Analysis

I concur with most of the comments that have been made, and with the general conclusion that User:AnonMoos appears to be unreasonably expecting Wikipedia and the world to accommodate to their obsolete hardware and software. However, encryption is not the problem as such. AnonMoos, as they explain, has found a workaround, which is an indirect method which is not fully Unicode-compliant. I see no evidence that it is partially Unicode-compliant. There isn't a visible encryption problem. There is a very visible Unicode problem. AnonMoos is mangling the OP's signature because the OP's signature is in Arabic. When they edit a block of text that contains the Arabic signature, they convert it into Latin characters. The conversion may be a transliteration, or it may be something else. I don't know Arabic, but I know garbling when I see it. I think that AnonMoos is incapable of editing text that contains non-Latin characters without corrupting them. Their workaround may only be problematic for editing Wikipedia because Wikipedia is the only site where they are trying both to read and to write non-Latin characters. So it is the only site where they are failing to write non-Latin characters. Wikipedia, unlike AnonMoos, is Unicode-compliant, and Unicode is a key part of its functionality, especially in certain subject areas, such as the Arabic language. If AnonMoos had tried to edit articles about the Arabic language, they probably would have corrupted them also. They may be lucky not to have tried to edit articles containing Arabic characters.

They may also be lucky to have kept obsolete hardware running for much more than five years. Their 2012 web browser had already been obsolete in 2019, but only became problematic when the encryption was upgraded (not when it was first implemented). My experience, and the experience of many, although not all, users is that hardware typically signals that it is obsolete by stopping working, often after about five years. So I have to have non-obsolete hardware, because I have to replace it. Then again, I don't know about their hardware. Maybe they are running obsolete software such as a 2012 web browser on current hardware. If so, they should move into the 2020s.

An editor wrote: I just can't fathom what tool they're using to get around the HTTPS requirement to edit Wikipedia securely.. I think that the indirect method is an indirect implementation of HTTPS that breaks Unicode.

In the short run, AnonMoos should avoid editing any text that contains non-Latin characters, because they break the non-Latin characters. In the medium run, they have been warned that any corruption of Unicode in Wikipedia will lead to a block because their hardware and software is incompetent. In the medium run, they can request technical advice at the Village Pump, request a referral for a computer technician from their local electronics store, or get a modern Internet connection and modern hardware.

They don't have an encryption problem. They have worked around that with a technique that breaks Unicode. They have a Unicode problem, and Wikipedia requires Unicode compliance. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

User:ZanderAlbatraz1145 Civility and Content #2

• ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This user has engaged in a lengthy display of disruption. Namely through incessant incivility I have noticed they were previously reported for.

Instances such as ordering IP editors to stop editing articles, hostilely chastising them, making personal attacks in edit summary on several occasions, etc. Users such as @Waxworker: and @Jon698: can speak to their experiences, I'll outline mine.

On December 10, I noticed on the article Luca Guadagnino's unrealized projects page several additions were made that didn't adhere to the article's purpose. Zander restored these with an introductory summary rife with bad faith assertions about my intelligence and asserting they'd engage in edit war behavior. For the most part there was an attempt to discuss the issue we had, but ultimately did not see eye to eye. I asserted I'd be escalating the issue to garner more substantive dialogue around it, Zander's response includes a needless "bite me". I made some attempts at engaging the topic at the article's talk page, in addition to WikiProject Film, it was over a week that saw no input. I would go on to state that (at the time) in two days, I would restore the page to it's status quo. I would do so, asking it not to be reverted. Zander reverted anyway, and after another terse interaction, I moved to nominate the article for deletion, finding with the conflicting views of what Unrealized meant, it was too open ended and led to these lists being essentially trivia. Since then, Zander has elected to take an antagonistic approach towards me, making swipes they openly admit add nothing to the discussion threads they're added to, and now that I am putting said comments behind collapsable tables for being offtopic, Zander is now doing the editing equivalent of mockingly repeating me, with edits such as this and this.

This editor displays no interest in conducting themselves cordially or cooperatively on this website. Rusted AutoParts 23:20, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

I've given them a warning for canvassing: [7] [8] [9] - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 04:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

And more personal attacks here - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

And they appear to be continuing editing while ignoring here. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:39, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

This feels par for the course for Zander frankly. As noted with the bit about Zander reverting after an explicit edit summary saying not to and there being two days worth of me saying that edit would be made and they made no objections until the move was made. They disengaged from discussion but only re-engaged when the situation changed to their disliking. Rusted AutoParts 02:07, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

A week has now passed, and Zander has elected to continue ignoring this thread. Perhaps it's too much of a reach to suggest they aren't here to be constructive, but it certainly doesn't help to think otherwise when they just refuse to engage. Rusted AutoParts 00:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I gave them another notice, and their response was "watch me". I'm this close to blocking as not here to collaboratively build an encyclopedia. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 04:50, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Considering they aren't willing to amend, or even to discuss amending, their behavior towards regular users such as myself or Jon698, the flagrant disrespect in that comment towards you, an admin, and similar disrespect towards Liz, another admin, seems really the only course of action. Rusted AutoParts 07:07, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

• Alright, this has gone on long enough. Given the obvious behaviorial issues here, and their ignoring concerned raised and explicitly thumbing their nose at this ANI thread while continung to edit edit and edit, I have pblocked ZanderAlbatraz1145 from articlespace indefinitely until they respond here. Once they do and the issue is dealt with, anyone can feel free to unblock. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 18:34, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

  I acknowledge my behavior. Taking everything into account, I believe my behavior is not completely irrational. I also don't see the logic in "addressing" the "concerns" here (debating/arguing) with editors of higher power than me if we will never agree, because we never will. I don't think any edit I've ever made to a page was to destroy or worsen it, so your accusal of me not being collaborative is highly offensive, considering that on a regular basis, I am a great collaborator, I thank my editors and very often seek out to assist them with articles. They could even revert one of my edits, and we could come to a compromise/conclusion, that is not out of the ordinary as long as it is warranted. I am a flexible, malleable editor. I just don't like this I am right, your are wrong mentality. Nothing I've done illustrates a wrong view; I don't vandalize, I cite everything I do, etc., I don't seem to see the issue except for others to nitpick small issues. Every now and again you encounter that one editor, that one pain in the ass (for lack of a better phrase, I acknowledge) who is like that, the kind to ignite edit wars. This right here at the Wiki noticeboard is merely just an example of a result of something that escalated. My entire edit history will show/prove this. It is only the opinions of a select few editors that have decided to target me, with which I'm now forced to reckon with here. Doesn't really seem to make much sense to me. That was my logic in not coming here to respond before. For the record, I am responding now not to be unblocked but because I'm not exactly sure what you wanted me to say here. So I guess I'm proving a point by saying, okay, I'm here... now what? Is this really all you wanted? Just for me to acknowledge it? I was not ignoring it, I was just deciding not to engage because what good will it honestly do? Surely you're not blind enough to see that. I've said everything I've needed so say, however rude or crass, or however buried they may be, in previous edits or responses, but they seem to have gone completely ignored and not taken into account. If you look at the order and the pattern of my editing and history, you can see my behavior worsen recently as result of several factors, plus editors who will never see eye-to-eye. I have never had this type of issue before on Wikipedia, so to me, I just take this instance as a domino effect, a contributing set of circumstances resulting in me being here, right now. So, if we all just decide to be adults and move on, the ice will eventually unfreeze and things will go on back to normalcy (Normalcy as in: I will not appear on this noticeboard, just like I've never appeared on this noticeboard for the past two or so years.) Things must stop in order for them to start again. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 02:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  So "I've done nothing wrong, it's their fault" - that's not going to fly here, I'm afraid. You don't mention your explict canvassing, for one thing, and nothing about your - repeated - personal attacks. And you weren't just deciding not to engage because what good will it honestly do - you explicitly blew off a notice to come here. Even if your content was 100% squeaky clean, your conduct is most certainly not, and is very much not in line with the expectations of editors in a collaborative project, which Wikipedia is. You cannot just choose to ignore when people raise concerns about your conduct, and then posting the above screed when finally forced to confront it is not, at all, helping your case. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  I acknowledge my canvassing, too. Better? The guy already won the battle, the page got deleted. Not sure why it's worth acknowledging. Also not sure why after four votes to keep the page were discarded, because the two editors who I did canvass genuinely believed and wanted to keep the page, and thought for themselves. Not like I fucking bribed them or persuaded them, they did what they genuinely wanted to do, to vote to keep the page. And I guess my vote and another editor's were discarded for no good damn reason, and a vote to "Burn it to ashes and then burn the ashes" (bit extreme, no?) and then one vote to Merge. So that's four Keeps, one merge, and one toss. So that's a 4.5/6 to keep, if my math is correct? I understand now that I should not have canvassed with "opinion", if I hadn't put that in the message, I'm sure the page would not have been deleted. So I paid for my mistake there. But I believe it worth it and right to inform other editors who may be of interest and it was not like I said "Vote yes or die", I just tried to spread the word and said to "help save the page". They could have voted to delete the article if they wanted to, I have no control over that. But they voted to keep it... so again, not sure what else I need to add, or what else is worth discussing. I was in the wrong by canvassing with bias, that was proven by the page deletion. Done and done. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 02:31, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  The deletion discussion was reopened, and the page undeleted by the initial closer. You're still inherently making it a personal issue by asserting that I "won" the discussion. This is why the canvassing is a problem. It's one thing to notify people that a page they may have a connection towards is up for deletion, and to assess whether they'd like to participate. It's another thing to paint it as "saving" a page and painting me in a negative light. This inherently biases an editor, such as with Nils, and makes it difficult to fairly count those votes as they were recruited as opposed to invited. Rusted AutoParts 03:07, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  I acknowledge the bias, but yet I understand my logic at the time. As I stated, I would have handled the situation differently in retrospect. And my wrongness about the canvassing was made clear by the then-fate of the page. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 03:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  I understand and I acknowledge the conduct, but to me actions speak louder than words. If I react negatively, it was a result of a negative action. Nothing more, nothing less. I suppose I should learn to control it better, but like I said, I've been on edge more lately as result of all this recent garbage that's been happening. I'm not usually this unpleasant or crass or rude to other editors. Like I said, a domino effect. This is not my standard behavior, again, if you look at my edit history and put it into a percentage, it's honestly not all that often. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 02:34, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  "You cannot just choose to ignore when people raise concerns about your conduct, and then posting the above screed when finally forced to confront it is not, at all, helping your case." Yeah, but this is better than nothing, right? And like I said, I'm not confronting anything. I did what you wanted me to do, I'm engaging in a discussion, trying to explain myself. You said in previous messages just for me to respond here. Well, now I've done it. Now what good is it doing? I'm trying. I'm trying to discuss it. But I announce again, what good is it doing? What was the first thing I said? "I acknowledge my behavior." And you know what, I do regret some of my actions. Had I been less naive and handled the canvassing issue better, I might have saved the Guadagnino page. I don't think, however, had I been nicer to certain other editors I would have persuaded them or convinced them or been able to collaborate with them. I don't think nicer conduct there would have made a difference at all, because I tried to approach it from a nicer angle several times, but I just kept getting angrier. Made it worse and worse. Domino effect. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 02:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  Well, frankly that just sounds like perhaps it's not the best idea to be an editor here if trying to conduct yourself civilly with someone you might wind up not being able to see eye to eye with winds up just making you angrier. No one by and large is here to "win" anything, if there's a dispute the situation is to either explain your POV and change another's mind, or to see perhaps your POV is the one needing evolving. The ultimate need is to do what's best for the page and the website. Rusted AutoParts 03:12, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  And, like I said, I've resolved past issues that way before. Jon698, or whatever the user's name is, resolved our beef quite peacefully and understood each other by the very end. We just had to get through the toughness. Just because of this one instance of culminating events I think is ridiculous reason to conclude that I "not be an editor here". And, again, I don't believe you understand the specific example is not the seeing eye to eye, but rather the change in my approach did nothing to dissuade the editor's view whatsoever, and the area discussed was too grey to be merely right or wrong, hence why the discussions are STILL going on. And that itself made me angrier, as seen by the edits. 'Well, I might as well just go back to being rude if this nice crap isn't doing shit', that was the logic, doesn't make sense saying it now, but I'd never thought I'd have to analyze it like this. Is this discussion helping anything? Be honest. And please tell me if I need to just quit. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 03:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  No one is wishing you to quit, that's something you personally would need to decide (barring of course if an admin makes that choice for you. What led to myself and Bushranger to start considering NOTHERE was the difficulty in bringing you to this thread. As they articulated, you have to engage. The ignoring over a week and subsequent refusal to do so put you inline with being NOTHERE and thus on the verge of being banned. It's not an outcome I've been rooting for, I'm disappointed it's wound up to where this thread needed to be opened. But this needed to be addressed, because your interaction with Jon698 would've ideally been the one and done, but with the antagonism pointed my way with the needless jabbing, it just had to be done. A conflict in content really should not become something where being needlessly rude is the way to approach it. That just makes anyone in disagreement just inherently uninterested in seeing your point. I speak from experience, being the person being needlessly rude. Alot of could have been productive discussions or productive collaborations with other editors got spoiled because I was too easy to get hotheaded. Rusted AutoParts 03:33, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  You misunderstand. I mean, is this discussion helping? Is it worth my time or are we just going in circles and should I just quit the discussion? That's what I meant. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 03:36, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  I mean, the idea is for the issue to be hashed out here, but it still seems you really don't have interest in doing that give this response. Rusted AutoParts 03:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  I don't know what else needs to be said, that's what I mean. I acknowledged my faults, stated my regrets. I'm not sure what else Bushranger would like me to do. That was sort of the point in my initial message is that I already received the blows from my actions before even going on this Noticeboard, so now I have this on top of everything else. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 03:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  I appreciate the remarks. But I have admitted my faults, however buried they may be in "screed", as lovingly put by Bushranger. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 03:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  And you're still not getting the point, as evidenced by your comment right here. Also my wrongness about the canvassing was made clear by the then-fate of the page carries the implication that if the article had been "saved", it wouldn't have been wrong - no, your 'wrongness about the canvassing' is because it's against Wikipedia policy no matter the fate of the page. Overall the fact you still clearly consider this discussion unnecessary and a waste of time illustrates, to me at least, that your attitude here is not conducive to a collaborative editing environment. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  Well, that comment was not meant to be rude, and I believe you're reading to much into it. But again, I could see how it could be misinterpreted, but I'm not writing a Wikipedia article here. This is a message board. I'm talking. And I more meant it to be humorous, "as lovingly put by", I don't know, I think it's funny. And my regrets of my faults are buried within these long paragraphs, believe it or not. I believe Screed is a bit harsh to call it, but I might say the same thing as an outsider, ha ha. But to be fair, it comes off as "screed" because this is a delicate topic, frankly. Everything has just been drawn out to the point of... gee, I can't even think of the right adjective... madness? Boredom? Pointlessness? Uhh... restlessness? Maybe that last one. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 03:53, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  I understand the counterproductivity of being rude. In a general sense though, "mak[ing] anyone in disagreement just inherently uninterested in seeing [my] point," is a logical thought, and I believe that would apply to other and future scenarios in which I may disagree with other editors. I will keep this in mind, though not every editor operates on this logic. This is not assuming bad faith, but it's frankly true. However, I do not feel in this instance that being nicer would have convinced you or would have helped my case. The only thing it would change is I just don't think I'd be on this Noticeboard. You and I would still be in heavy disagreement with regards to the unnamed topic. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 03:49, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  You don't need to become a teddy bear when discussing an issue, you just have to not open an interaction with someone by making remarks about intelligence, and then just going about antagonizing someone if the discussion gets hardheaded. The issue was what constituted being unrealized, I don't think it would be something that was fundamentally impossible to bring about a shared consensus. Rusted AutoParts 04:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  "I don't think it would be something that was fundamentally impossible to bring about a shared consensus." You'd be surprised. An uphill battle. Not for right or wrong mind you, for consensus. I always seek to find that, I don't enjoy edit-warring. This is not fun for me. Of course, consensus is what I seek to find, a place where the page is at a general agreement at where it needs to be and why. Again, I will keep in mind the fact that being "needlessly rude" will "make anyone in disagreement just inherently uninterested in seeing [my] point" for the future since there would be no point because it would be counterproductive. Even though it may not apply to every editor, in which case I would not report them because I am not that kind of editor. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 04:05, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  I reported you because of edits like this. Straw that broke the camel's back. And frankly, it's difficult to believe consensus is what you seek because your very first edit summary pointed my way asserted you were just going to keep re-adding the deleted content back. What's ultimately being sought in this thread is, are you going to amend your behavior or no? Because this hardheaded rude approach isn't going to fly. Rusted AutoParts 04:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  I've stated already in this thread that I will take the rudeness into consideration and not do that approach the next time because of how sensitive everyone is. I thought I've made that clear from my first response on this thread from the beginning. Frankly, the rudeness doesn't bother me as I've experienced it back and never sought to report them, because, again, that's not the kind of editor I am. But if you're going to go out of your way to report me and drag me through this, then clearly I've offended you to the point worthy of an apology. So, I apologize. And, just for the mere fact of the time I've spent back-and-forth on this, I will rescind from being as rude in the future (but C'MON, that ten collapsible tables bit was funny! You have to admit! Even funnier that it was the "straw that broke the camel's back"- I didn't realize it would be at the time), but I will still keep my wits about me, if you know what I mean *wink* *wink* — I can't take that away! ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 04:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

• ...so you half-apologise because it's because of everyone else, not because of you, and then, functionally, take back the apology. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing a genuine understanding that you did anything wrong. You need to 'not do that approach' not because of how sensitive everyone is, and not because you [went] out of your way to report me and drag me through this, you need to not do it because it's a violation of Wikipedia policy, and realise that you're being 'dragged through this' because of your actions and your actions alone which violated that policy. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 07:08, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  Well, yes, that reason and also the fact that it's a violation of Wikipedia policy. That's why I'm here. I would not be here if it weren't so I felt that went without saying. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 15:58, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  So I'm saying I will not do that approach for both reasons. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 15:59, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

• The more reasons not to do something or to go about a certain "behavior", the better, ha ha. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 16:06, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

• I just want to point out to @ZanderAlbatraz1145 that your intent in writing a post or comment doesn't change how it's received. You only have text to communicate with others here, and you have no idea what's happening in the life of the person reading it.

You could be speaking to someone who's having a great day, or who just had the worst news - you don't know and can't know. There are millions of editors and readers, so you need to remember your audience.

In my workplace, there are a few of us with the most inappropriate sense of humour - we will joke about each others body parts, sex life etc. because we know each other that well. A few months ago, a new lad joined the team and got on with everyone and decided to join in. It didn't go well at all.

I recently had a dispute with another editor for a similar reason, he was so focused on his view that he didn't realise how it came across to someone who was in hospital undergoing tests whilst they were reading his replies. He didn't know what was happening on my end, but you need to tailor your response to be polite and respectful precisely because you can't know what is happening with your audience.

You cannot presume that other editors are ok with sharp or rude responses just because you are. They're not you.

If you can show that you appreciate and understand this fact, you'll be fine.

Blue Sonnet (talk) 16:12, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I understand that, thank you. But I believe my understanding and acknowledgement of others has already been established prior in the few messages above. I'm just going in circles at this point. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 16:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Also, maybe don't talk crude sex jokes to each other and then he surprised how they are negatively received? If we all treated each other with a little more respect, like we were in a 1940s movie, and talked with some dignity, and some class, I think we'd all have a much better time and a better world. A world in which people use their words better, more effectively, more intelligently. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 16:23, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

User:Glenn103

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Glenn103 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been mass creating unsourced stubs about Cyrillic letters, most of which have been draftified. They've also disruptively edited in the past, such as: [10][11][12] '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 01:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Most of these pages don't even make any sense (eg.: Draft:Yery with tilde). The user also ignores any notice about his articles being moved to draftspace by simply recreating duplicates of them (eg.: Draft:Tse with caron & Tse with caron). Immediate action may be needed. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 07:38, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Given a uw-create4im with directions to come here, let's see what happens. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 08:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

They've continued editing, this time adding infoboxes to the articles, so I don't think the warning worked... '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 08:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

I have blocked them from article space and page moves, and will leave note on talk page to come here. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 15:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Honestly, this almost feels like trolling. Their basic procedure seems to be: pick a random Cyrillic letter. Combine it with a random diacritic. Write a short stub on the combination, saying effectively "this letter combination is not used anywhere." The occasional historical mentions ("this combination was used in such-and-such obscure Siberian language") are completely unsourced, of course. (Everything is unsourced.) Oddwood (talk) 04:43, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Excuse me for detracting from the report, but this was your 4th edit, your last edit was in January 2016... how have you found yourself here of all places?

I mean you might have a point, but wow. – 2804:F1...57:88CF (::/32) (talk) 04:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Similar behavior to PickleMan500 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki) and other socks puppeted by Abrown1019 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki), which also made tons of drafts on Cyrillic characters that cited few sources (and none with in-depth coverage). Most drafts have been WP:G5'd, of course, so only those with admin perms can verify the deleted contribs. Since these socks have been banned (WP:3X), I haven't notified them of this discussion. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 17:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Good catch, and looking at the contribution histories it  Looks like a duck to me. Changing the block to indef as a sock accordingly. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 07:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

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Insults

I'd like to report an incident related to this discussion. A person under IP already accused me of being "obsessed". Now someone (possibly the same person) suggests that I may need psychiatric help. Please also see this comment. I guess we can always agree to disagree with other people, but this is going a bit too far. Thank you. Psychloppos (talk) 09:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Psychloppos. What action are you seeking to happen here? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:42, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

I have no idea which actions are warranted here. Maybe an admin could leave a message to this IP and this registered user and remind them that they should assume good faith ? It would also be nice to remind them about Wikipedia:Civility and Wikipedia:No personal attacks. Saying that I am "fuelled by an unhealthy obsession" or questioning my sanity do not seem to respect those guidelines. Psychloppos (talk) 09:52, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Normally this starts with warnings on the user's Talk page, but it seems you two have already hashed that out. So unless this account does it again, there's no further action to be taken. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 18:25, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

FYI, following this, I have made this sockpuppet investigation request. Psychloppos (talk) 13:48, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Of note, Hazar Sam has now accused Psychloppos of engaging in defamatory edits, which smacks of a WP:LEGAL violation. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 18:09, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

And their response to being warned about that was to flounce. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:46, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

So apparently he was indeed the person insulting me under IP (which he calls having "a little anonymous fun"). Psychloppos (talk) 08:21, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Request for Review of Neutrality and Repeated Actions

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Dear admin, I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to express my concern regarding Psycholoppos, who has repeatedly applied the neutrality dispute tag to content related to Randa Kassis. Despite previous clarifications, these actions suggest a potential bias, which could undermine the objectivity and integrity of the platform.

I kindly request that you review this matter and take appropriate steps to ensure that all users adhere to neutrality standards. If possible, I would also appreciate guidance on how to address such situations constructively in the future.

Thank you for your attention to this issue. Please feel free to reach out if further clarification is needed. Hazar HS (talk) 17:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

@Hazar Sam, whether the NPOV tag is needed or not should first be discussed on the article's talk page. Also, see the large notice at the top of this page: you are required to notify the editor you are reporting. Schazjmd (talk) 17:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

The editor is also called Psychloppos, not Psycholoppos. I have notified them for the OP. – 2804:F1...26:F77C (::/32) (talk) 17:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't give a chatbot-written thread the time of day. HS, we have less tolerance for AI-written arguments than the American court system. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 18:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

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• Note: I moved this retaliatory post to be a sub-heading of the original issue. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 18:34, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Rude and unfestive language in my talk page

My esteemed editor collegue Marcus Markup just left this rude message on my talk page, on Christmas Day no less. Not really in the spirit of the season, I'd say. Considering that he was sagaciously advising me on the importance of tact and etiquette in the very same thread, he should be held to the same standard. Vector legacy (2010) (talk) 17:54, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Vector legacy (2010) and Marcus Markup, you both should stop that childish behavior and disengage from one another. Cullen328 (talk) 18:10, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Uh, “suck a bag of dicks” seems a cut above anything childish in VL2010’s conduct. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 08:05, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

True, and given a warning accordingly - but Vector legacy's user page is also...interesting. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 09:31, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Vector Legacy's comments in that discussion are clearly poking the bear, both should be warned. On top of that, Vector has broken the 3RR rule with these 4 reverts: [13], [14], [15], [16]. They acknowledge in the edit summary of the 4th that they know of the 3RR rule and that their first edit was a revert. The last revert in particular, effectively saying "haha, you can't make any more reverts because you've already made 3" when the user themselves has made 4, is really not smart nor constructive/collaborative. Valenciano (talk) 10:12, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm normally a stickler for civility, but frankly in this case I actually think Vector legacy (2010) is the bigger problem. Marcus's Markup comment is something they can hopefully easily learn not to do and could have been an extremely unfortunate one-off in a bad situation. By comparison it seems that Vector legacy (2010) is treating editing here as a game where they win edit wars rather than collaborate constructively. I have little hope this is an attitude easily changed so a WP:NOTHERE block might be justified soon. Nil Einne (talk) Nil Einne (talk) 12:25, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Yes. The idea of WP:3RR is that the protagonists should discuss things on the article talk page before that point is reached, not to use it as a stick to beat other editors with. I note that Vector legacy (2010)'s user page admits to a lot of edit warring, and it discloses a WP:BATTLEGROUND attitude. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:31, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I think that it is safe to say that both these editors are skating on thin ice. Cullen328 (talk) 17:02, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

To that point, Vector legacy (2010)'s userpage consists of a tally of "EDIT WARS WON". I doubt this is serious, but the optics of it, combined with the above 3RR vio + bragging about the other party being on the line, is not good. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 18:01, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I've nominated that userpage at MFD as it's purely disruptive. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:42, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Incivility, aspersions, WP:NOTHERE from Cokeandbread

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Cokeandbread (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Cokeandbread is a few-month-old account whose area of greatest focus has been creating (and defending) two promotional pages for social media influencer-types: Jimmy Rex and Hammy TV. Cokeandbread has refused (diff) to answer good-faith questions (diff, diff) about whether they are operating as a paid editor (responding to one of them with Don't threaten me) and posted a copyvio to Commons (diff). Despite warnings (diff), the editor has been engaging in bludgeoning/disruptive behavior at the Jimmy Rex AfD (bludgeoning and attempting to !vote multiple times (diff, ) and has made uncivil remarks to other editors (diff, diff, diff), while demanding respect in the other direction. Recently, Cokeandbread posted the following on their user page: The way some people in AfD discussions move, you just know some people commenting are under demonic influence. Stay away from me and mine. (diff). Despite another warning (diff), which Cokeandbread removed when blanking their talk page (diff), this aspersion is still up. If we're at the point where an editor is accusing other editors of being demonically influenced, I think we're well into WP:NOTHERE territory. Given the lack of response to non-admin warnings and requests, I'd ask for admin intervention here. Dclemens1971 (talk) 23:34, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

• You're absolutely right. Editors should not be accusing other editors of being demonically influenced. They should WP:ASSUMEGODFAITH. EEng 00:04, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
• I concur, and have accordingly blocked. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:14, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
• Do have to wonder what's going on with that AfD given several accounts with only few contributions, contributions which themselves seem questionable, have somehow found it. But that's probably a question for WP:COIN or something. Nil Einne (talk) 02:28, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

  Suspicious indeed. There's an open case at SPI, although CheckUser did not confirm connections on the first batch of reported accounts. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:35, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

  (edit conflict) Actually see it's already been partly dealt with at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Amaekuma. The geolocation point there is interesting, while I don't know what CUs are seeing it does seem likely given the other accounts wider interest these are editors from Nigeria which is another weird thing since there's nothing to suggest the subject is particularly known in Nigeria. Nil Einne (talk) 02:37, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

  ...after posting this as the end of a series of "I won" edits, they blanked their user talk page. Appears to have been a troll from the start. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 09:30, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

  Should have locked their TPA. Borgenland (talk) 09:49, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

  On another note, I would like to flag Hammy TV with some COI-related tag in light of this but I couldn't remember the exact template. Borgenland (talk) 09:52, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

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Disruptive editing by Dngmin

• Dngmin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The main issue with this editor at the moment is disruptive editing based on continuous abuse of Byeon Woo-seok. Issues began when this editor 1500+ bytes of sourced material. He did it again and again and again for past few days, thus creating a lot of work for others to undo.

Since october the user received warning for blocked from editing. Please help to block the user. Puchicatos (talk) 04:19, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm assuming the mention of diffs and @PhilKnight: was a cut and paste failure? [17] - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 07:00, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes it is. Puchicatos (talk) 16:14, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

New user creating a lot of new pages

• 4Gramtops (talk · contribs)

I am not confident I understand what 4Gramtops is up to. They created 50+ new pages in their userspace. I have not a clue what they are meant to accomplish outside of testing. It just seems strange for a user with so few edits. There was no forthcoming response to my talk page messages trying to get an explanation (which I know they've seen since they used my heading as a new subpage title)

On a related note, they have also created this epilepsy nightmare. It's possible I'm just overthinking a simple troll here. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 07:35, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Gaming the system for permissions? - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 09:28, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Given Special:PrefixIndex/User:4Gramtops/, I find it likeliest they're trying to learn Lua by using their userspace as a testing environment. Harmless but technically U5. Folly Mox (talk) 11:54, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Might not even be U5 if the purpose of trying to learn Lua is to develop the expertise to work on Lua modules for Wikipedia. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:39, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I already suggested they use Test 2 Wikipedia for that purpose. It'd lead to a lot less clutter. I do find that either way they should probably say what they're trying to do. No one can help them if they don't communicate. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 20:55, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

197-Countryballs-World

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So far, 197-Countryballs-World (talk · contribs) has made categories, started drafts, and attempted edits to articles, all of which make it clear they presently view Wikipedia a bit like their personal playground where they can build some sort of confused, redundant atlas. They have not responded whatsoever to talk messages, their categories at CfD, or their unsourced additions to live articles being reverted. If they can hear us, it seems they need to be gotten a hold of if they want to be a positive contributor—but it seems likely that they can't hear us. Remsense ‥ 论 19:19, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

(NAC) Based on their username, I can reasonably confer that their edits likely pertain to the Countryball Fandom. Just a note, as I know we've historically had issues with Fandom editors crossing into Wikipedia. Feel free to remove if this message is innapropriate for ANI. :) E_F⁵ 20:23, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Aye. Mostly, they seem young. Remsense ‥ 论 20:27, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

• I've indeffed them for disruption and incompetence.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:52, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Haha balls. Drmies (talk) 21:53, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

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Disruptive editing and ongoing vandalism by User:Caabdirisaq1

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I have warned @Caabdirisaq1 multiple times in his talk page with no avail. He consistently vandalises articles by adding images unrelated to them such as Ahmed Girri Bin Hussein Al Somali , Matan ibn Uthman Al Somali and Garad Hirabu Goita Tedros Al Somali . I have been trying to revert the changes made and explained that they were of orientalist paintings of Arab bedouins. Replayerr (talk) 21:28, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

• User:Replayerr, you may disagree with these, as you say, orientalist depictions, but that doesn't make Caabdirisaq1's edits "vandalism". You also haven't actually discussed the matter with them--you merely placed two standard warnings and threatened to have the editor blocked. You reverted them a few times on Ahmed Girri Bin Hussein Al Somali but you never explained why. I am not going to take administrative action on a content matter where the complainant (you) have done so little to make clear why those edits were problematic. Drmies (talk) 21:57, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

  Adolf Schreyer produced the paintings in the late 19th century mainly depicting Arabs and they have nothing to do with the Adal Sultanate and those Somali soldiers which fought for it. They have been doing image vandalism on these articles and they're all related to each other.

  This image has nothing to do with Ahmed Girri Bin Hussein Al Somali

  https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Adolf_Schreyer_Reitende_Araber_mit_Gefolge.jpg

  I have spoken to him on the article but he had constantly reverted the talk page and prevented a discussion from taking place as evident here. [18][19] Replayerr (talk) 22:13, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

These edits adding these images may not rise to the level of vandalism but they seem pretty disruptive to me. Adolf Schreyer was a 19th century painter well known for portraying horses and horsemen, and he traveled to to Turkey, Egypt, Syria, and what is now Algeria. He also painted horses and horsemen in a European context. I know nothing about his work other than what the Wikipedia article says or the file pages for the various public domain images on Commons say. If the image file says something like "two Arab horsemen" and the painting was created 150 years ago, then adding that image to the biography of someone who lived 500 years ago with zero evidence connecting that specific painting to that specific individual 350 years earlier is disruptive and unacceptable. So, maybe I am missing something and maybe there is a Catalogue raisonné for this artist that identifies these paintings as representing figures of the Adal Sultanate. But lacking that sort of solid evidence (which should be reflected in the Commons file pages), then adding these images is a violation of the No original research policy, in my opinion. Cullen328 (talk) 04:09, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Regardless of the content dispute, Replayerr opened a discussion on an article's talk page three times; the first two times Caabdirisaq1 simply deleted Replayerr's talk page post rather than replying to it. That alone seems pretty inappropriate behavior. CodeTalker (talk) 06:34, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

He hasn't spoken to me once and I've tried to hold discussions explaining it to him but he ignores them and reverts the changes done. I opened this incident so something could be done regarding this. Replayerr (talk) 10:00, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I've left another comment asking them to come to this discussion and participate in this conversation about images added to articles. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:37, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

He hasn't listened and is still editing those articles with the unrelated images. He has reverted all my changes.[20][21] Replayerr (talk) 09:58, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

This editor does not seem to want to discuss things. Maybe a partial block from mainspace would help? Phil Bridger (talk) 10:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

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Please revoke TPA from MarkDiBelloBiographer

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• MarkDiBelloBiographer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Misuse of talk page after being blocked. Still promotion the same person. -Lemonaka 03:40, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

What exactly is the problem? She said that she wants to create a Wikipedia page for her friend as a Christmas gift. She got blocked, and now she's complaining that she doesn't understand how Wikipedia works. If you don't want to explain how Wikipedia works, why not just stop looking at the page? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:52, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I offered to write about him and did for 3 long days as a gift and you guys disbelieved everything, none of which I put was false! It's all on the web, in papers, or other media, or pictures and on his websites

Anyways Mark and I were both fans of and he thinks it's a valuable resource for people I'm just sorry you're so negative and inaccurate about me and him

I believe this is not the good try after getting block. -Lemonaka 03:58, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

This person clearly appears to be a good faith editor, they just don’t understand notability requirements. Now they’re blocked and being reported? Nobody could take the time to be kind and explain how this place works? Wow. 173.22.12.194 (talk) 04:49, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

This does seem to be, if not a wrong block, one for the wrong reasons - it's certainly not an "Advertising only" account. And absolutely no need for TPA to be revoked, no. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:02, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

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User:KairosJames

KairosJames (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This user's additions of unsourced content to biographical articles (not any living persons that I've seen, or I'd have gone to BLP) have been reverted many times, with several warnings. They've made no response on any talk page. Assuming they actually are getting these facts from some kind of source, I would think they could be a constructive editor, but they at the very least need to become aware of our citing standards in my opinion. -- Fyrael (talk) 04:36, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Actually in one of their recent edits (here) they added content that was patently false, so for all I know they've made up all the other unsourced info. -- Fyrael (talk) 05:18, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikihounding by Awshort

user Awshort has been selectively invoking rules on the article for Taylor Lorenz. It has taken me some time to really see how it was happenening, but finally today wrote this post on the talk page with examples of how they have been selectively and hypocritically enforcing rules on me (a new user).

Additionally, as I mentioned in that post, at one point they accused me of asking another editor for help...which doesn't make any sense? It seems like they were trying to imply to me that I had done something wrong, but I read over some rules first to make sure I was allowed to ask for help. I'm still pretty sure I am! If not...let me know?

After my post today, Awshort started Wikihoundingme.

Here are diffs where they follow me around to pages it doesn't appear they have had any interest in prior:

°1

° 2

°3 Now, I will of course acknowledge that on the third example, I did make a mistake. I thought I had only removed the text of the sentence, but looks as though I accidentally deleted part of the template too. I am unsure how that happened, so I will try to figure that out.

Either way, Awshort's edit summary was not the language I hope experienced editors would use with newer editors like myself. I have mentioned multiple times in conversations that user Awshort is part of that I am a newer user, so they likely know that. ____

I'll end by saying that this user's behavior is making me reconsider whether I want to devote any time to improving wikipedia. Truly. I've never made a report like this before, anywhere in my life, just to give you a sense of how frustrating and upsetting its been.

I hope that this is the right forum for this. If not, my apologies, and please let me know where to redirect this to.

Thanks for taking a look.Delectopierre (talk) 08:49, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Delectopierre, if you have had any discussions where you actually tried to talk out your differences with this editor, please provide a link to them. They might be on User talk pages or article talk pages or noticeboards. But it's typically advised that you communicate directly with an editor before opening a case on ANI or AN and don't rely on communication like edit summaries. Also, if you haven't, you need to notify any editors you mention about this discussion. They should be invited to participate here. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:12, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

There isn't. I don't feel comfortable discussing wikihounding with them. It is, after all, harassment. Delectopierre (talk) 09:20, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Although I did link to my post today where I confronted them with their behavior (except the wikihounding, as it hadn't happened yet). So that is an attempt to discuss the other part.

But after I tried to discuss it, instead of responding to it, they started wikhounding me. Delectopierre (talk) 09:22, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Maybe you should spend less energy “confronting” and more energy discussing and trying to learn from more experienced editors. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 13:38, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I try to learn when experienced editors engage with me in a helpful and respectful manner. Your comment does not fit that description.

As an aside, I wasn't aware that non-admin, IP-only editors, who are not involved with the incidents I've reported would be participating in this discussion. Delectopierre (talk) 23:52, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I've notified Awshort as it still hasn't been done. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 15:05, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, ActivelyDisinterested for doing so. User:Delectopierre, you should have notified User:Awshort yourself, there are messages instructing editors to do so all over this page including on the edit notice that you see any time you post a comment here. As I said, you are also advised to discuss disputes first with involved editors before posting on a noticeboard. ANI is where you come for urgent, intractable problems, it's the last place you go when other methods of dispute resolution haven't worked. This also looks like a standard content disagreement regarding Taylor Lorenz and the fact that Awshort reverted one of your edits. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:15, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Liz as I noted above, I attempted to discuss their behavior on the article here, and their response was to wikihound me.

As I said here I don't feel comfortable discussing what feels like and seems to be harrasment, directly with them, as it felt like intimidation to stop confronting them about what I see as bad behavior on the article. I was waiting for a reply to that statement before proceeding.

Is there really no process that allows for an instance when an editor feels uncomfortable? Delectopierre (talk) 23:31, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I will also add that it appears as though this is not the first occurrence of this type of behavior, based on this comment by @Twillisjr. I don't, however, know any of the details. Delectopierre (talk) 23:35, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Re-reading your comment, @Liz:

I think I’ve been unclear. The content dispute is a content dispute. You’re right about that.

That is NOT why I posted here. I posted here because the content dispute spilled off that article and has now resulted in wikihounding. The wikihounding, specifically, is why I posted here. Delectopierre (talk) 05:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

User:Iacowriter

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User:Iacowriter has been warned in the past year to properly update numbers since he is not listening and can't do basic rounding of numbers and update the accessdate parameter. He has been warned enough times about this as seen by his Talk page by me and other editors but still refuses to listen.

I've requested admin action but I was told to go here. Timur9008 (talk) 14:51, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

This has been going on for months now. At first I thought he was following the bad example of other editors who fail to update the box office gross consistently in all places it needs to be updated (article body, lead, infobox) but it goes beyond this. I tried asking nicely and repeatedly tried to explain the basics of how to round numbers (which is odd because he seems to be able to get it right in the Infobox most of the time, but frequently fails in the lead section and fails to update the article body). The problem is compounded by his failure to follow the WP:SIMPLE rules and provide a meaningful edit summary.

User:Betty Logan warned him politely (diff) October 27, 2024, but Iacowriter seems unwilling or unable* to correct his persistent mistakes and unfortunately it seems to be necessary to escalate this issue in some way. (* (diff) stated that he has autism) -- 109.79.69.146 (talk) 16:41, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Leave me alone! I’m trying! Iacowriter (talk) 17:04, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Trying is one thing, but you seem to keep ignoring it he advice you're getting from others. It looks like there have been multiple requests for you to stop rounding numbers incorrectly. Why have you refused to stop? Sergecross73 msg me 17:08, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Making the same edit while this ANI is ongoing is not "trying" in good faith and as such, I have blocked from mainspace. Longer note TK on their Talk Star Mississippi 17:44, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

for anyone considering a future unblock request, User_talk:Iacowriter#ANI_discussion has further discussion with the editor. Star Mississippi 18:17, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

• Numerical rounding is a straightforward skill that should have been mastered at high-school. There are even online rounding apps available if it is something you struggle with. From what I recall of my interaction with this editor the issue of incorrect rounding is compounded by reverts (of editors who subsequently correct the rounding errors) and communication problems. For what it's worth I don't think this is deliberate vandalism or disruptive behavior (Iacowriter is apparently autistic), but the bottom line is that he is causing a lot of unnecessary clean-up work. Perhaps there are other aspects of Wikipedia he could work on that won't lead to the same problems? Betty Logan (talk) 17:47, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

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Disruptive editing and pushing of his own "point of view" by User:Michael Bednarek

A few months ago, I began to create some new pages about German folk songs, with my own translation under CC-license (that's still quite normal for a bachelor in history (ethnography), I guess). The above-mentioned user started to push his own remarks, reverting my edits (in spite of my authorship and my notices about my VRTS permission and CC), and ended here. At least, we (together with other participants) clearly established that I had had such a right and labelled some of my talk pages with my VRTS-ticket. Nevertheless, already the following page I'd started drew the attention of the aforementioned person. And that what he answers me (a poet-translator of folk songs and historian/ ethnographer):

"I replaced (or omitted) archaic 'inwit', 'wont'; mark parts of the translation as dubious.", it was a substantial improvement of that article. My remarks on the shortcomings of its translation, which you subsequently labelled "poetic", still stand"

. The first case that he marked as "dubious" was the gender of the German "Winter". In German, that word is masculine; however, I translated "Winter" as a feminine, and there are a plenty of samples from history when the Germans depicted "Winter" in their beliefs as a female deity or spirit (one might begin from here).

I have neither wish, nor time to consider all such current and future "improvements" (a lot of time we've spent solving the question with the VRTS-ticket itself). I only hope to avoid such "waste" of time and strength in the future — either he isn't allowed to undo or change my poetic translations without my own consent and our consideration, or I stop my further like work. --Tamtam90 (talk) 15:10, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@Tamtam90 I have posted an ANI notice on Michael's talk page. Please leave the notice on users' talk page when starting a discussion on ANI next time. 🔥YesI'mOnFire🔥^{(ContainThisEmber?)} 15:42, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@Tamtam90:, anything on Wikipedia can be changed at any time by any editor. If it is not acceptable for you to have your translations modified by others, I suggest you not use them. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:17, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I translated and published my translations in Wikisource, as professional ethnographer. You don't explain the situation, nor the edits of your "protégé": merely reverted my (author's) edits without any consideration. Why not to "change" or "revert" all my edits in Wikisource as well? Please, try it. Or your admin flag doesn't admit such a trick?--Tamtam90 (talk) 16:59, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

That's a needlessly hostile attitude to take.

Of note, your status as a professional ethnographer does not mean your edits are above reproach. Other people may disagree with your translation, that's normal. You do not own edits here, so changes to your edits may happen. If that means you "stop <your> further work," then so be it. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 17:45, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Please try to stick to WP:CIVILITY and avoid casting ASPERSIONS, like baselessly implying that one user is an admin's "protégé". NewBorders (talk) 17:46, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Willing to give some grace to potential second language and things not coming through as intended @Tamtam90 but either he isn't allowed to undo or change my poetic translations without my own consent and our consideration, or I stop my further like work. falls afoul of edit warring, ownership. WP:EXPERT will be a helpful read, but right now you're closer to a block from mainspace than @Michael Bednarek is if you don't re-assess your conduct. Star Mississippi 17:58, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Dear friends, I published all my translations before on an "outer" site, not here, though I granted with VRTS all rights to use them — without changing — to the community. That's, to say — publish and reproduce them, not to change in any possible manner and without any consideration. Maybe, I missed, but I haven't found such "conditions" (to change one's works in any possible manner) in these rules. --Tamtam90 (talk) 23:04, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

By publishing changes, you agree to the Terms of Use, and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 4.0 License and the GFDL. You agree that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license. Now, if you want to remove your translations, probably nobody will replace them. But you have no more say in edits going forward than anyone else does. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 23:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

If you publish anything on Wikipedia, anyone can edit it, in anyway. Full stop. You explicitly cannot license contributions to be unalterable. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:53, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Original work is original work. Once accepted from an outer source, it cannot be changed and posed as original by anyone. The third column seems to be a healthy solution (for each acceptable derivative, as well) — it's a pity that the opponent doesn't follow his own decision and way anymore. --Tamtam90 (talk) 08:40, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

No, I don't publish anything on Wikipedia, I republish here the texts added to Wikisource. That rule doesn't apply to any authentic translations previously published outside (one may create some derivatives, but not change with them the original). --Tamtam90 (talk) 08:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

The button you hit was "Publish changes", so yes, you published it here under cc-by-sa 4.0. I really think you're setting yourself up for a minor disaster by not understanding what the license you're using means. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:21, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

If you post anything on Wikipedia, you have, in fact, published it. And once you have posted/published it here, anyone can change it in any way for any reason at any time. It can be changed, and saying it "cannot be changed" is a violation of Wikipedia's licensing. If you don't want your content edited by others, don't post it here. It's as simple as that. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 18:29, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

According to your claim, one may change here any text loaded on Wikisource, still labelling that as original (from the Bible or some historical chronicles, from a traveller's notes and so on). However, holding the authorship (demanded by any CC licence), such an editor would violate the very bases of Creative Commons' spirit: who would share freely their works knowing that the latter might be changed at any time and by anyone and still published under their own names? (Under the authors, I mean here not only writers, but scientists, artists, and other professionals as well). There's a clear border between the original and its derivatives. --Tamtam90 (talk) 08:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I think the issue has been poorly explained. The articles in question contain translations that are cited at Wikisource. Changing the translation then results in a false citation. I think it is important to separate the Wikipedia article and the translation document on Wikisource. The wikipedia article can be edited, the wikisource translation should stay intact. The policy question, is how can Wikipedia editors use the Wikisource translation and how do they cite it? Wikisource surely has their own policies. Tinynanorobots (talk) 09:15, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

An additional column might be a healthy solution. That's not "a one-hit wonder": such approach does work in some pages on the folk songs: The Song of the Volga Boatmen, Kalinka (1860 song), Arirang, and other related articles. --Tamtam90 (talk) 09:57, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

About "minor disasters": the above-mentioned user undid or "cleant" my changes in three of the last four articles: Das Todaustreiben, Wiegenlied (Des Knaben Wunderhorn), Es kam ein Herr zum Schlößli, Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär. How many new contributors, in your opinion, would withstand such "attention"? I'm not a "newb" in Wikipedia, though I have a sense of some prejudice (maybe, implicit). --Tamtam90 (talk) 09:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

An inspection of the edit history of 3 of these 4 articles shows that my edits were substantial improvements; I never touched the 4th, "Wiegenlied" (Des Knaben Wunderhorn). All my edits are intended to collegially improve Wikipedia; I don't think I've ever been accused of prejudice or harassment, and I reject that characterisation. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, three. Yes, and certain your improvements made some admins from Wikipedia and Wikisource to intervene, to solve the previous conflict (1, 2) --Tamtam90 (talk) 11:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

AUSrogue's behaviour

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AUSrogue (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I believe this user is not here to build an encyclopedia. They are pushing an anti-semitic point of view and calling editors who disagree with them Jewish as an insult. The original issue is this [22] on List of terrorist incidents in Australia where they say some terrorist attack was labeled as Christian terrorism by Jewish wikipedia editors. I reverted it, left a level 2 personal attacks warning on their talk page, and they agreed to stop.

They then do [23] which just isn't neutral. This was a month ago, and today, they put it back, leaving this [24] on my talk page, with an image, Toxic Wikipedia Users.png uploaded just for me. This is a reference to the Jewish Internet Defense Force which I take issue with.

I believe AUSrogue isn't here to build an encyclopedia. win8x (talk) 16:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

• Yeah, that's not acceptable. Blocked indefinitely, they can explain themselves in an unblock request. Black Kite (talk) 16:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

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Disruptive reverts and insults by Andmf12

Andmf12 (talk · contribs)

First, I'm French and my english isn't perfect. Then, it's my first report here, so sorry if I'm not posting on the right place.

Since days, Andmf12 (talk · contribs) is continuously reverting on article CS Dinamo București (men's handball) but also insulting me: revert 1, revert 2, revert 3 + insult: "are you dumb?", revert 4 + insult: "yes, you are an idiot and stop deleting because we are not interested in your stupid rules, like you", revert 5 + insult: "You're crying like a little girl and I see you don't want to calm down".

The object of the reverts is about non-sourced hypothetical (or not yet confirmed) transfers (see ? on each item) but as I explained many times in my removal, "Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and not a crystal ball". If needed Bellahcene and Pelayo's transfer has been mentioned ("devrait") but not confirmed yet. Same thing for Rosta.

For a little more context, previous similar behaviour by differents IPs happened in this article and lead to a request for page protection on 4 December and a second time on 22 December. Actually, the problem wasn't only for the handball club article but the same problem occurred to multiple handball clubs and led to many pages protection. At that time, CS Dinamo București (men's handball) was the worst with already many insults in english ("Where is democracy? We do not distort information, we come to support handball fans who do not have a platform like transfermarkt in football" and "Are you stupid?") or in romanian "iar ai aparut ma prostule?" (meaning "You showed up again, you idiot?"), "mars ma" (x2), "Nu mai sterge bai prostule" meaning according to google "Stop wiping your ass, you idiot").

Coincidence or not, looking at Andmf12 contributions led to the conclusion he.she is Romanian and by the way one can see that he also have had inappropriate behavior in the past months (diff with probable insult in capitals "NU MAI EDITA PAGINA DACA NU AI TREABA CU CLUBUL INAPTULE", diff with insult "don't delete if you have nothing to do with the team", diff with insult "fck u iovan jovaov")

I'm not fully aware of the rules here, but I think that Andmf12 (talk · contribs) should sanctioned somehow.

Thanks for your concern.--LeFnake (talk) 16:27, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Blocked two weeks as a CheckUser action. It could be upped to indefinite if someone wants. I doubt this person is going to change after 2 weeks. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 16:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

LeFnake, your English is just fine and your report here was very informative. Merci beaucoup. Cullen328 (talk) 17:52, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks both of you. LeFnake (talk) 18:00, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm surprised to see only two weeks for block evading - who's the master, and was there a reason it wasn't straight to indef? - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 21:54, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Disruptive editing from User:Azar Altman

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User:Azar Altman is disruptive editing and failing to interact positively on talk page discussions. He appears to be POV pushing, unlike you, I know everything about my country and especially the city.[25]

• Changing Data: [26] [27]. He was previously warned about changing numbers [28]
• Incorrect formatting or breaking things such as: [29] [30]
• Removal without reason: [31] [32] [33]
• Talk page interaction is uncivil: [34] [35].
• Edits have been reverted by at least 4 different editors, three of which have placed a total of 6 warnings on the talk page.

I do AGF they are attempting to be a positive contributor, but they also appear to simply want to POV push and disregard other editors and/or WP:P&G because WP:IKNOWITSTRUE. Additionally, there is a degree of WP:CIR that is missing when it comes to appropriate sourcing and using markup. Attempts at civil discourse has been ignored. [36] [37] For those reasons, I recommend a very short term block to get their attention further to contribute positively and also to engage in consensus. TiggerJay (talk) 19:30, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

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Persistent disruptive category additions by Simbine0

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Simbine0 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - Keeps disruptively adding the category 'Category:Occitan-language films' to articles where the Occitan language isn't discussed in the article (see WP:CATVER), continued after final warning. Simbine0 is indef blocked on the French Wikipedia. @Ciseleur: removed the category across several articles due to "inter-wiki disruption", and Simbine0 re-added them - I reverted the additions due to CATVER issues, then Simbine0 re-added them again, in one of the reverts leaving the edit summary of "Sei ein Mann und forsche selbst wie ein Erwachsener", meaning "Be a man and do your own research like an adult". Examples of recent category additons: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Waxworker (talk) 19:56, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Agree, I made a request on meta about this issue. --Ciseleur (talk) 20:18, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Automated (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) should be included, according to fr:RfCU. --Ciseleur (talk) 20:53, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I've blocked both accounts. If someone can, a bulk revert of Simbine0's edits would be a time saver. Wiki Automated had only one and it's reverted. Star Mississippi 00:41, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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Political party affiliation in the United Kingdom

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There's currently a row going on between two UK political parties – the Conservatives and Reform UK – about the counter on Reform's website that the Conservative leader has claimed is automated to just tick up all the time regardless of actual numbers.

Party membership in the UK is not audited, so there's no real way of knowing what the truth is as yet.

On Political party affiliation in the United Kingdom, IP and newly registered users are visiting the site and then coming here to tick the figure up. This is remarkably unproductive, especially for an unsourced (and probably unsourceable) number. Not against our rules, per se, but... just a bit ridiculous.

There seems to be no point in reverting to the last sourced version here (BBC, but vague) since it's just going to get ticked up from the party website again.

Some options on what – if anything – we should be doing would be welcome (protection? but is that a sledgehammer to crack a nut?). 81.2.123.64 (talk) 21:25, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Have you started a discussion about this on the article talk page? That seems like the appropriate location to settle a content dispute, not ANI. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:29, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not convinced it is a content dispute – it sort-of straddles multiple issues, of which content is only a small part. Also, since it's new users and IPs, starting a conversation on the talk page will be me talking to myself unless I start reverting – which will have me over the 3RR and blocked (we give no rope at all to IPs, after all) within 10 minutes. 81.2.123.64 (talk) 21:32, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

It's also happening at Reform UK - indeed, there's a SPA editor there (User:C R Munday) that does little else but increase the membership ticker. Given that the membership numbers are only primary sourced and disputed, I wonder if it would be better to either remove them or mark them as disputed for now. Black Kite (talk) 21:36, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps this is a case for WP:RFPP? - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 21:52, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I use third-party sources (media outlets) to verify as per the rules set out in WP:PRIMARY. These numbers are now NOT disputed and confirmed as accurate after inspection by several reputable media outlets. C R Munday (talk) 23:15, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I think there should be a debate had on the article's talk page. C R Munday (talk) 23:17, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict)As I write this that article says that all of the parties it lists published membership figures today, two days after Christmas. Unlikely, to say the least. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:40, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I've EC protected both articles, Reform UK was only semi'ed and Political party affiliation was not protected at all. If folks think length needs adjusting, feel free as the duration was a guess. Star Mississippi 00:45, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

As I feared might happen, a revert war now appears to have broken out on Political party affiliation in the United Kingdom. 81.2.123.64 (talk) 00:43, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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User:AstroGuy0

AstroGuy0 has created at least two articles in mainspace and an additional draft. I have reason to suspect that this user is using AI to generate these articles, upon examining the initial edits for Delivering Outstanding Government Efficiency Caucus, Daniel Penny, and Draft:A Genetic Study on the Virulence Mechanism of Burkholderia glumae (2013). As I noted in Talk:Department of Government Efficiency, in which I warned AstroGuy0 about using AI, these edits have a varied use of links, false statements—as evidenced in the DOGE Caucus article that claims that the caucus was established in November 2024, an untrue statement—incongruousness between the grammar used in how AstroGuy0 writes on talk pages and how he writes in articles, a lack of references for many paragraphs, inconsistencies with the provided references and paragraphs—for instance, with the first paragraph in "Criminal Charges and Legal Proceedings" on the initial edit to Daniel Penny and the fourth reference, and vagueness in content. I ran the caucus article through GPTZero and it determined that it was likely AI-generated; I have not done so for the others. AstroGuy0 has denied using AI. If that is true, then he or she should be able to explain the discrepancies in the references they are citing and what they are including in articles and why they chose to word specific phrases in a certain way. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:59, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Independent eyes needed on Triptane

Can someone please take a look at recent edits, and a resultant two-week first block, at Triptane, thanks Andy Dingley (talk) 22:18, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

That would be a bit over the top, no? Nobody's exceeded 3RR and the reverting stopped 7 hours ago. BethNaught (talk) 22:38, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh dear, I misunderstood you, the IP editor was actually blocked and you're asking for a review of the appeal at User talk:5.178.188.143. BethNaught (talk) 22:43, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm confused by the reverts being based on WP:CITEVAR, since the article (before the edits) only had 1 ref and it used CS1, as did the refs in the reverted edits (unless I'm misreading them somehow). And two weeks seems harsh for a long-term constructive IP editor for a first block. Two editors made 3 reverts each but only one was blocked, that's also confusing. Schazjmd (talk) 22:41, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

UtherSRG, who blocked the IP, wasn't notified but I'd like to see their comments here. Spicy (talk) 23:14, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Bad block. Mr. Ollie is out of line. The IP's version is clearly superior. Carlstak (talk) 23:45, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I have to agree, and this is hardly the first time Mr. Ollie has refused discussion. Hellbus (talk) 23:56, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean. I started a discussion on the IP's talk page because this was an issue across other articles as well ([38], [39], [40], [41]). Their last edit on Triptane used the existing citation style, so I had no plan to revert further. I did not request nor did I expect the IP to be blocked. MrOllie (talk) 00:50, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I had made it clear on my talk page way before this incident that I won't touch your citation style on the statistics pages you listed in the future. However, on the pages I'm writing I can use whatever citation style I like, and you can't use CITEVAR regarding the citations I added to the page you have never edited. And of course you had no plan to revert further, that would have broken 3RR which I made clear I am aware of. 5.178.188.143 (talk) 10:56, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Again, 3RR isn't the only trip line. It was still an edit war, so I blocked accordingly. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:17, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Two editors were edit warring. I don't understand why you blocked the IP but not MrOllie, or better, protected the page to force discussion. Spicy (talk) 15:04, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

You're right. I probably should have done either of those. My GF-meter has been eroding, and I've taken to assuming better of more established editors over IPs. I'll strive to do better. My apologies to the IP. - UtherSRG (talk) 15:23, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

• Wow. Yes, the IP editor could have used (much) better edit-summary phrasing, but this is one of the worst blocks I've seen in awhile. I've given MrOllie (talk · contribs) a warning for edit-warring and removed the block on the IP with a "don't edit-war" notice. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:42, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you very much. I regret my edit summary was so poorly worded but you might understand I was quite emotional while posting it. 5.178.188.143 (talk) 10:53, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

  • Good deal. We need competent, enthusiastic new editors. Thanks, Bushranger. 00:48, 28 December 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carlstak (talk • contribs)
• The block review isn't impressive either... might be of interest to Fram given the recent AN discussions. 1.141.198.161 (talk) 02:27, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

HollywoodShui

In the last few years, User:HollywoodShui has attempted several mass additions of (generally non-contemporary) portrait sketches by one particular artist to biographies, all marked as minor edits. I was the most recent one to tell them to stop, and that they need to consider each article instead of spamming indiscriminately. They did not respond, and an hour later they decided to keep going for a bit. I do not see why they won't do this again in a few months or a year. Remsense ‥ 论 00:26, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

• It looks like over the years they have uploaded a bunch over at commons, and some of that has been deleted. I think there might be a COI concern here based on editing trends. TiggerJay (talk) 05:20, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

User:Remsense, you are not a new editor. You should know that when you made a complaint at ANI you have to present diffs illustrating the bad behavior you claim is going on. Otherwise, your complaint is likely to just be ignored. You need to provide evidence and not just come here and post a complaint. The editors who review cases at ANI want to be able to verify that what you say is actually happening. Nothing is going to happen based on your narrative complaint. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:10, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Every single one of them, Liz. I didn't attach diffs because the "contributions" link clearly suffices. Remsense ‥ 论 07:15, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Asking editors viewing this complaint to look through an editor's entire contributions will result in very little response to your complaint. If you want editors to respond, you need to spell it out clearly and you haven't here. You need to point out the problems, specifically. I don't expect much to come out of this. Editors are busy people and shouldn't have to do your work for you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:18, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

If you don't find the report clear, I don't mind if you ignore it. Remsense ‥ 论 08:19, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

It seems like coming to ANI is your immediate response to disputes, Remsense. You might try alternative approaches to dispute resolution before bringing editors to a noticeboard. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:24, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

This is a user who was spamming Wikipedia. I made it clear to them that this is what they are doing and they should stop, and they didn't, nor did they respond to messages. If you think they should be allowed to continue as they were, then that's your right, but I have no idea what other avenues are available if I think someone needs to stop and they don't respond to messages. Remsense ‥ 论 08:26, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Nearly every one of HollywoodShui's 197 edits has been to add a 100 year-old drawing by Manuel Rosenberg:

• [42]
• [43]
• [44]

I left this talk page message last year for HollywoodShui advising them to be mindful of MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE.

Today, HollywoodShui stated here (via IP) that Manuel Rosenberg is his great uncle, and HollywoodShui wanted to share the images because of their "significant historical value".

HollywoodShui appears a good faith editor who genuinely wants improve the project. Unfortunately, Wikipedia isn't a photo gallery, and in my opinion, few of the sketches improve the articles they were added to.

A solution for HollywoodShui would be to add a Manuel Rosenberg gallery on the Commons, and then add that category to images like this.

Then, add a Commons link to each Wikipedia biography. (EPLS). Magnolia677 (talk) 12:40, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

After engaging with them on their talk page they seem to have good intentions and are specific in how they’re adding images. This does not appear to be abusive but perhaps a bit misguided. A thoughtful discussion on the appropriate uses of those photos (over 100 of which are in commons) would be a good place to start. TiggerJay (talk) 16:00, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't think they were being very discriminate, though. What justifications could be articulated for adding these to, e.g. Abraham Lincoln, Albert I of Belgium, Thomas Edison if any attention was paid to the articles as they were? What is the intended effect for the reader in having one of these sketches pop up across a significant number of the most important late 19th-century biographies? As far as I can tell, I was the first one to introduce thoughts to the process here, and I was ignored. Given their response to scrutiny so far, I doubt if they use this account again, it will be for anything other than the same. If that turns out not to be the case, then of course all the better. Remsense ‥ 论 16:09, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Request to investigate

Dear Wikipedians,

I suspect this user User:2A00:23C5:C05E:EC00:F4C0:EA5C:FA3A:BE07 may be a sockpuppet of User:Kriji Sehamati due to similarities in editing patterns and focus areas.[45], [46]

Thank you! 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 05:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

You can bring that over to WP:SPI but be prepared to have specific evidence to support your allegation in the form of diffs, etc. TiggerJay (talk) 05:21, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

SPI is thataway, yes. Also you tagged the IP as a suspected sock, when {{Sockpuppet}} specifically says The template should not be used in this manner (and I'm pretty sure we don't tag IP socking "account pages" at all anymore). - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 06:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

As a reminder, before using a template there is a handy Usage section, in this case {{Sockpuppet}} says In general, this template should only be applied by Administrators or Clerks as part of the Sockpuppet investigations process.. But in specific regard to this allegation, do make sure you open an API with specific information. While you can report IP addresses, and this sockmaster has been found to block evade using IP addresses[47], they are in a completely different network in a different country, so initially it would seem unlikely, without very specific diffs to show the abuse. TiggerJay (talk) 06:13, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

In case it is not clear from all of these other messages, User:s-Aura, do not tag an account as being a suspected sockpuppet unless it is confirmed by a checkuser, an admin who works at SPI or an SPI clerk. Your suspicions are not enough to label an account as a sockpuppet. If you believe an editor is a sockpuppet, file a report at SPI, not ANI. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:58, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Sorry about that thankyou!

I’ll remember to follow the right steps next time. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 07:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Navin Ramgoolam

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For the past few months, Navin Ramgoolam has been ravaged by a recurring edit war between Nikhilrealm (talk · contribs) and BerwickKent (talk · contribs). I understand that both had been warned on their TPs multiple times but have still continued. I'd leave it to others who needs to be sanctioned. Anyways, I have tried multiple times to have the page locked but apparently evaluations on RFP do not believe it is that serious. Borgenland (talk) 05:15, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Both editors seem to have dropped the stick since they received the stern warning from @LaffyTaffer. RFP really isn't necessary since it seems to be an edit war between two specific users who can be individually dealt with without unduly limiting editing by others not involved. It's not that the edit war isn't serious, but rather not serious enough to perform a full protection from all edits just because of a few bad users. TiggerJay (talk) 05:28, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I hope they do. This has been flaring up repeatedly since October and clogging up the edit history. Borgenland (talk) 05:31, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I only issued those warnings this morning, and this edit war has been happening slowly. I'm not sure whether they're actually dropping the stick, but here's hoping they have. There will certainly be a report here or WP:ANEW if the reverts kick back up. Taffer 😊 (talk) 05:35, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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User:Remsense

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This user, Remsense, Told me to remove diacritics in the article Palestine, and is threatening to do the same here. They claimed that I personally attacked them and accused me of 'yelling at them' in an edit summary at the article India. They also denied saying that. If you do not believe me, feel free to look at that edit summary, as they won't leave me alone anytime soon. Thank you. 🗽Freedoxm🗽(talk • contribs) 08:10, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Sigh. Proudly hanging a banner calling someone a harasser and liar at the top of your user page is a personal attack, but saying one rewrote some text such that it yells at the reader is not. If anyone has questions, let me know, otherwise I'm tuning out. Remsense ‥ 论 08:11, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

This could have been avoided if you didn't threaten to report me to ANI. 🗽Freedoxm🗽(talk • contribs) 08:13, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

It also could've been avoided if you expressed any self awareness whatsoever. Remsense ‥ 论 08:16, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Freedoxm, WP:DROPTHESTICK. Otherwise, you are headed to an interaction ban or a block. --Yamla (talk) 08:19, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Alright. 🗽Freedoxm🗽(talk • contribs) 08:26, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Can you please provide a diff for this edit summary?CycoMa2 (talk) 17:44, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

stick has already been dropped. 🗽Freedoxm🗽(talk • contribs) 17:46, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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Socking vandal/troll back again

Dealt with. Sandstein 10:06, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
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The Fistagon sock and vandal who stalks the edits of me and a few others is back again as TweenQween (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log).Could I please ask that the usual action be taken against them, along with revdel on their edit summaries? Many thanks - SchroCat (talk) 09:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)  Done Sandstein 09:59, 28 December 2024 (UTC) Many thanks Sandstein - I'm much obliged. Cheers - SchroCat (talk)

User:Kremoni-ze

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• Kremoni-ze (talk · contribs · logs)

Editor appears to be using grammar-checking software to reword one or two sentences in major articles, but they either aren't fluent enough in English or aren't reading carefully enough to realise when this renders a sentence factually inaccurate. Some of these edits are also being applied to direct, historical quotations.

Both of these issues were raised on their talk page but they've continued making the same mistakes since (eg. [48], [49]). Possible WP:THEYCANTHEARYOU issue. Belbury (talk) 11:42, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Behold!

−

Antibiotic-resistant bacteria have been found to infiltrate the water cycle from farms. 73% of all antibiotics used globally are used in animal raising. As a result, wastewater treatment facilities can transfer antibiotic-resistant bacteria to humans.

+

Antibiotic-resistant bacteria have been found to infiltrate the water cycle from farms. Seventy three percent (73%) of all antibiotics used globally are used in animal raising. As a result, wastewater treatment facilities can transfer antibiotic-resistant bacteria to humans.

Remsense ‥ 论 12:03, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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User:Beach00 and personal attacks

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Beach00 (talk · contribs) has made a series of personal attacks in a contentious topic area, see for example this and this. They received a final warning for personal attacks and decided to respond with Russian Bot. Mellk (talk) 11:51, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I've blocked. 331dot (talk) 13:48, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

48 hours is lenient, especially recently after a 1 week block. But I guess the WP:ROPE can lead to an indef for their WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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Request for user page protection

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Hello. The user Olve Utne has passed away, the global account is locked, see m:Special:CentralAuth/Olve Utne. Can an administrator protect User:Olve Utne and User talk:Olve Utne from editing? Thanks in advance! Best regards, no-wiki sysop 1000mm (talk) 13:32, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

The user page has been fully protected. Thanks for letting us know. Isabelle Belato ^🏳‍🌈 13:41, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) My condolences. Isabelle Belato has protected his userpage. On enwiki, we usually don't protect the talk page as users might wish to leave condolences or see messages regarding articles the editor has contributed to. Spicy (talk) 13:43, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I wasn’t aware of the established practice in regards of user talk pages here at enwiki. That’s of course OK. 1000mm (talk) 13:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Wow. I'm Facebook friends with his wife. I didn't know he was a Wikipedian.SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:06, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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NLT block?

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• Plansau1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – for this threat on Joseph Weterings (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Thanks. 81.2.123.64 (talk) 14:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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Help Needed for Move Discussion

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I request that Admins address this Move discussion that has been going around in circles for more than a month with no clear resolution. There is a consensus that the current article title is wrong but myriad inconclusive ideas on a solution. This is a second request for Admin help and little was accomplished the first time except false accusations. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 17:14, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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ip 77.98.111.156

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• 77.98.111.156 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
• Shabana Mahmood (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) [50]
• Dario Amodei (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) [51]

  Talk:Dario_Amodei#Controversial_comment

• Sam Altman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) [52] [53]

  Talk:Sam_Altman#Section_about_Mr_Altman's_views_on_AI_replacing_people's_jobs

• Mira Murati (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) [54][55][56][57][58]

  Talk:Mira_Murati#Controversial_comment

Looks like a WP:NOTHERE situation. Edit warring at all four BLP articles. Disrupting article talk pages and User_talk:Alenoach#Message_26_December_2024. --Hipal (talk) 20:58, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

My edits were all perfectly reasonable. When other users suggested I should open a discussion on the talk pages I have done so.

The objections have become increasingly insane (I think that's a fair word to use in this instance), hence my frustration, for which I apologise.

For example claiming that adding an edit that had over 100 media articles written about it was "original research". How can that possibly be true?

Also being accused of POV, when in reality the people with a POV are clearly the people removing my edits without any justification. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.98.111.156 (talk) 21:17, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi 77.98! The issue here is that neither you nor I get to decide if any of these statements are controversial. We have to let reliable, independent, secondary sources decide that, and then we summarize and cite it. In fact, our policy on content about living persons is very strict, meaning that we typically require the most reputable of sources (and often multiple sources) when we're reporting on negative or controversial content.

An example is this edit at Mira Murati. CNBC (which is a good source, by the way) reported that Murati made those statements about AI and job loss—but critically, CNBC didn't say anything about a controversy or otherwise take a stance on the comments. That is what made your edits original research.

If these statements truly are causing a controversy, then it shouldn't be difficult to find some reliable sources saying that. Woodroar (talk) 21:42, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the explanation.

I did suggest this link as an alternative https://www.forbes.com/sites/joemckendrick/2024/06/23/generative-ai-as-a-killer-of-creative-jobs-hold-that-thought/ which does mention that it caused a controversy. I looked on the list of reliable sources and it appeared that forbes.com was green and therefore reliable. But Hipal has subsequently said that version of forbes.com isn't reliable.

If I find a source that is green on the list of reliable sources and it mentions that it's a controversy, would that be ok?

I am not here to cause trouble btw. 77.98.111.156 (talk) 21:56, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, unfortunately that article is by a Forbes contributor, which means they're not a Forbes journalist and they can self-publish pretty much anything they want. Forbes is somewhat like a content farm in that way. The entry for Forbes contributors is at WP:FORBESCON.

If you find a source (or better, multiple sources) listed in green, that should probably be fine. Make sure to read the entire summary, though. Reliability is nuanced, and some sources may not be reliable for everything. See the entry for People, for example, which is green but the summary says it shouldn't be used for contentious claims.

One last suggestion: because you've made multiple changes to these articles and been reverted, consider bringing any sources you find to the Talk page to discuss if or how to include them. That's an excellent way to demonstrate good faith, especially since you're off to a rough start. Wikipedia has a lot of rules and rough starts aren't uncommon, so I'm hopeful that everyone else will be just as willing to work with you. Woodroar (talk) 22:15, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks again for the explanation. In hindsight I should've read the links to the rules that people had posted. In future I will open discussion in Talk pages prior to making any changes. 77.98.111.156 (talk) 22:36, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm glad to help! If you have any questions in the future, feel free to reach out. Cheers! Woodroar (talk) 22:50, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Will do. Thanks very much. 77.98.111.156 (talk) 22:54, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Whether we should modify or not the article on Mura Mirati to include the quote can reasonably be argued for or against.

The issue here is mainly about edit warring and WP:Civility. Despite having received a warning about edit warring and the three-revert rule, 77.98.111.156 has added back the section 5 times (original edit, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5), in response to reverts by 4 different users. For the revert I made in this article and two others BLP articles where similar "Controversy" sections were added (1, 2), I got into two aggressive discussions (1, 2), and was accused of having a "huge conflict of interests" for being a "huge fan of AI".

I saw though that this discussion recently gave signs of improvement so I will not insist if 77.98.111.156 consistently behaves respectfully from there. Alenoach (talk) 23:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I accept I was wrong. I've apologised to you on your Talk page. 77.98.111.156 (talk) 00:23, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate the productive discussion you've had here.

WP:CIVIL begins with, "Participate in a respectful and considerate way. Do not ignore the positions and conclusions of your fellow editors. Present coherent and concise arguments, and refrain from making personal attacks; encourage others to do the same." Can you please address your talk page behavior in light of WP:CIVIL? (eg [59][60][61] [62]) --Hipal (talk) 22:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes I will act in a civil way in future. Apologies for being rude to you earlier. As I've said above, in hindsight I should've read the links to the rules that people were posting. I thought I was applying common sense but I accept that I was wrong to do that. 77.98.111.156 (talk) 23:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I hope you'll apologize to the other editors as well. --Hipal (talk) 23:13, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes I will do. Cheers. 77.98.111.156 (talk) 00:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

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CIR, EW and Battleground

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SimpleSubCubicGraph (talk · contribs) has displayed abominable WP:CIR, WP:BATTLEGROUND, incivility and other intolerable behavior as part of targeted edit warring on Azerbaijan Airlines Flight 8243. Despite not having consensus to bloat the page with WP:NOTNEWS entries they proceeded to WP:IDNHT and had to be reverted several times at the same time engaging in WP:SHOUTING and wholesale removal and vandalism of citations ([63]) and casting aspersions on experienced well-meaning editors who tried to revert them ([64]).

They then made International and domestic reactions to Azerbaijan Airlines Flight 8243 to circumvent consensus and is currently nominated for deletion per WP:NOTABILITY and engaged in redirect warring and yet more uncivil behavior in making another aspersion and false claims of hounding by reverting users ([65] and [66]). Finally, they continue to engage in WP:IDNHT behavior when warned on their Talk Page. See User talk:SimpleSubCubicGraph#December 2024. Borgenland (talk) 22:05, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Also look at the edit summaries on International and domestic reactions to Azerbaijan Airlines Flight 8243 showing a very strong WP:OWN attitude [67] and thinks a "moderator" has more review privledges than a normal editor [68]. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:12, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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Repeated unconstructive edits by IP 58.235.154.8

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The IP 58.235.154.8 has made several edits without sourcing, for which they have been warned previously. (my apologies, I cannot send a link to the dif of the first warning as it was the first edit to their talk page) After continuing, they were reported to ANI, and banned for two months.[69]

Just over five hours after their ban expired, they resumed their vandalism,[70] for which I sent them two warnings on their talk page.[71] The first warning was for marking a flight of Starship as having occured in the List of Starship launches article,[72] followed by their previous addition of almost completely blank sections to Starship flight test 7.[73] This was over the course of 7 edits.

The edits that got them banned, as described by the user who filed the ANI report, was "Changing a month to the following month, for future planned events without reference". After taking a nearly month long break, they have resumed this.[74][75]

It is clear that they are not here to improve Wikipedia. Redacted II (talk) 23:59, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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Personal attack by Thebrooklynphenom

Thebrooklynphenom responded today to a series of warnings about incivility, disruptive editing and COI with: You know exactly what your kind is doing and you’re going to see very soon the end result of your racist antics. Leading up to this personal attack, the editor has:

• Introduced serious formatting errors into an article and broke an AfD link, raising WP:CIR questions.
• Added a non-MOS-compliant lead sentence using the following edit summary: resist White colonial Eurocentric disrespect for African American clerics. This is a pattern of racism and a byproduct of white-washed persons misportraying the subject.
• Refused to answer questions (diff, diff) about an apparent conflict of interest.
• Despite claiming to be an editor of many pages, refused to answer a question about alternative accounts since this account had up to that point only edited three pages.
• Inserted unsourced promotional peacock language into a BLP, along with adding self-published sources that do not comply with WP:BLPSELFPUB.
• Tiptoed up to the edge of a legal threat.

I think the personal attack at the top is beyond the pale, but all told, it seems like this editor is WP:NOTHERE. Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

• I've blocked the user for one week. Probably should be indefinite.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks. What do you think about semi-protecting Darel Chase (bishop) for a week as well to prevent logged out edit warring? Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:46, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  We don't protect articles preemptively.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Disruptive IP editor on Christian fundamentalism

2600:1700:500:D0D0:1870:6A86:412B:C026 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is ignoring warnings and repeatedly making edits that essentially promote Christian fundamentalism and intelligent design, e.g. denying that it is "pseudoscientific". Helpful Raccoon (talk) 02:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

This editor has just been editing for about an hour. How about we give them some time to respond to their talk page messages before laying down sanctions? It would also have been preferable if you had tried talking with this editor and not just plopped down multiple template messages. Try communicating, like to another person, before starting a case at ANI. Templates are wordy and impersonal. As for ignoring user talk page messages, they stopped editing after only 20 minutes and many of these messages were posted after they had stopped editing. For all we know, they may not even be aware that they have a user talk page. I'd try not to be so trigger-happy. Let's see if they return to edit. Many IPs don't. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreed that I could have been more personal. The reason I reported this editor was that I already made three reverts to the article before they edited it again and nobody else was paying attention to the article at the time I reported. But then they stopped editing immediately after I reported them. Was there a better way to deal with this other than an ANI report? Helpful Raccoon (talk) 03:59, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Reviewing my report, I see that a different noticeboard such as FRINGEN might have been a better place, since they handle a lot of similar issues that don't rise to chronic behavioral problems and don't necessarily require admin assistance. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 07:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Disruptive edits on Syria-related articles (mostly regarding flag changes)

IP User 174.93.39.93 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) keeps on changing the flag of Syria to the revolution flag which has not been considered official yet according to Talk:Syria. Here are some examples: Japan-Syria relations, Syria-Ukraine relations (he mentioned option B and I don't know what he meant), and Iraq-Syria relations. He has done this repeatedly as proven by one of his older edit of the Ukraine article which was reverted. Also he was previously blocked for a week on the 15th for disruptive editing, but I checked his post-block contributions and he also did a few more disruptive edits as seen here (those with tag:reverted). Underdwarf58 (talk) 05:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

96.83.255.53

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

• 96.83.255.53 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

... was previously blocked twice for personal attacks and incivility. A longer block is probably warranted. C F A 05:43, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Yep. Blocked 3 months. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 05:45, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Socking

MAB is creating socks faster than I can block them.......see my recent contributions. 331dot (talk) 09:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Is there any way to track them with this type of contribution pattern? Checking new user accounts? Ymblanter (talk) 09:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I've been watching the user creation log. Their latest spat seems to be over. 331dot (talk) 09:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I know that WMF was sent info on them so they could take action and I thought some filters were set up. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Should I send these account names somewhere? 331dot (talk) 09:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I think I got it, will help now.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I think we are done for the time being. Ymblanter (talk) 09:56, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Undoing my work

User:GoodDay is undoing my work even tho the information is correct. Auxiliary213 (talk) 09:46, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi- please discuss this on the article talk page, Talk:Yoon Suk Yeol; admins do not settle content disputes. 331dot (talk) 09:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

@Auxiliary213: You have failed to notify GoodDay (talk · contribs) of this report, even though the red notice at the top of the page clearly requires you to do so. In fact, you have not even attempted to discuss the matter with them at all. Discussing reverts such as theirs is a requirement on this project; if nothing else, it allows you to understand why they thought that your information might not be appropriate for the page. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). 14:11, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

You've only made one edit to Wikipedia, since your arrival two days ago. Are you going to report every editor who reverts you, going forward? GoodDay (talk) 14:36, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

First of all learn manners. You are undoing my work without proper clarification. 78.57.86.69 (talk) 14:46, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Can this be removed? Auxiliary213 (talk) 14:52, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

First of all you should learn manners. I am only reporting it, because you didn't give me clarification of the revert. Auxiliary213 (talk) 14:51, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Auxiliary213 - you are the one who needs some manners. GoodDay was right to revert your edit, and an explanation was provided in the edit summary. GiantSnowman 14:52, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Stay out of this, you are irrelavent. Auxiliary213 (talk) 14:53, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

That's enough, Auxiliary213. You are not entitled to treat other editors as opponents. Acroterion (talk) 14:56, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

No - you brought it here for admin attention, and I am an admin giving it attention. If you continue to be rude and disruptive because you don't like the answer then you will likely end up blocked. GiantSnowman 14:57, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Alright. I do not care. Block me if you insist but i definetly ate you up 😝🤪🤪🤪 Auxiliary213 (talk) 14:59, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Acroterion & GiantSnowman, I think we have a WP:NOTHERE situation. GoodDay (talk) 15:01, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, inclined to agree... GiantSnowman 15:05, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Can yall block me? Idk how to delete this acc Auxiliary213 (talk) 15:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Have blocked them. PhilKnight (talk) 15:23, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Wendy2024 making legal threats

User:Wendy2024, a sock of User:Naderjamie6 has started to make legal threats. I believe that our policy requires us to escalate things when legal threats are made. See this diff We will not give up on our right if we have to go to court and sue every single one of you for this crime, and yes, it is a crime and unjust. Bunch of of you taking over Wiki which is suppose to be for everyone, patrolling it like a gestapos, blocking and banning people. See also this diff now bunch of gestapo are taking over banning/blocking people right and left, and deleting articles based on their prejudice. If there is any Karma in this world, any justice, those who responsible for banning us will face justice.

Long story short, this user is threatening to take Wikipedia to court over their sock block. For context, the initial block was for socking to vote stack at AfDs, however, they are insistent that they are just a bunch of mates at a library editing together. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I rejected the unblock request and pointed them out to WP:LEGAL. Concerning their unblock, they insist that during a wiki-meetup two users were using the same laptop. Whereas this could happen, if it was an organized meetup, there should be a Wiki user group, or chapter, or whatever, who organized it, and there should be some way to see whether these two users are one or two physical persons. Ymblanter (talk) 10:10, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Those wishing to consider unblocking these users should note that User:BonitueBera has just been blocked and is confirmed to this sock farm. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:16, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

And User:Hendrea44 as well... There's so many of them. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:18, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

They continued to insist that they go to the court (I think they claim this is an Iraqi court - good luck with this), so I removed their talk page access, but an uninvolved admin still needs to look at their last unblock request. Ymblanter (talk) 12:14, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done. GiantSnowman 12:17, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I think we are done here.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Cross-wiki harassment and transphobia from User:DarwIn

User:DarwIn, a known transphobic editor from pt.wiki, is harassing me here after his actions led me to leave that wiki permanently. He has also harassed me on Wikimedia Commons. I don't know what to do anymore. I just want to edit about transgender topics in peace. This is severely impacting my mental health. Skyshiftertalk 13:02, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

You don't seem to have notified the other editor. This is mandatory and this section may be closed if you fail to do so. Use {{subst:ANI-notice}}~~~~ on that user's talk page. Additionally, you don't seem to have provided specific diffs demonstrating harassment. Please do so. --Yamla (talk) 13:06, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

On pt.wiki, DarwIn proposed the deletion of articles I created about transgender topics (Thamirys Nunes and Minha Criança Trans), using transphobic arguments, including misgendering and questioning the validity of transgender children. After translating these articles to en.wiki, he is targeting the DYK nomination, again focusing on his personal transphobic beliefs - as it shows, he doesn't even know how DYK works. He insisted multiple times trying to include his transphobic comment on that page and has just edited it again. On Commons, for extra context, DarwIn unilaterally deleted images related to these articles, despite being clearly involved in the dispute.

Again, I just want to collaborate with trans topics in peace. Skyshiftertalk 13:15, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

We can't help you with pt.wikipedia.org or with commons, only with en.wikipedia.org. Please provide specific diffs for en.wikipedia.org. --Yamla (talk) 13:17, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes. However, context is important. This is harassment that began on pt.wiki, has spread to Commons, and is now here. The history has been provided, but, sure, I can provide the diffs instead. He has unilaterally edited the DYK page and put a "disagree", despite this being not how DYK works. This is because he really doesn't know, as he only sporadically edits here and only came back to harass me. His comment is explicitly transphobic and doesn't focus on the article itself at all. After his comment was reverted by me, he insisted saying that I shouldn't call it transphobia, despite it being transphobia. After being reverted again, he reincluded the comment. I asked him to stop harassing me, but he has edited the page again.

I just don't want to be targeted by that editor here. I've left pt.wiki in great part for that reason. I just want to edit about transgender topics in peace here. Skyshiftertalk 13:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Looks like yet another cross-wiki troll by this user. Already blocked at the Portuguese Wikipédia and Wikimedia Commons, the account is now promoting their POV here, including spreading lies, hideous slurs and baseless accusations against me like "known transphobic", after two of their creations were taken to community evaluation at the Portuguese Wikipedia for lacking notability. The user is also a known sockpuppeter, with an open case for sockpuppetry at the Portuguese Wikipédia. In any case, I'm not interested in pursuing this case in yet another project apart from the strictly needed, so do as you please. Darwin ^Ahoy! 13:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I have been blocked on the Portuguese Wikipedia for contesting that transphobia was called "valid criticism" on ANI and on Commons for literally nothing. Skyshiftertalk 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Questioning a women that declared her 4 year old son as trangender after he refused to play with cars and Marvel puppets and preferred what his mother calls "girl stuff" doesn't fit in any reasonable definition of transphobia, a word which you are well known for abusing whenever anyone criticizes you at the Portuguese Wikipedia and elsewhere. In any case, I don't think this is the place for this discussion, so this will be my last direct answer to you you'll see in this board. Darwin ^Ahoy! 13:32, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

And here's explicit transphobia. It's her daughter, no matter how much you hate the idea of trans children existing. The story you've told is also completely distorted. Skyshiftertalk 13:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

• Comment I simply don't want this editor targeting me with transphobic stuff here after he target me on pt.wiki (and left it permanently in great part for that reason) and Commons. I am considering taking medication because of these events. Skyshiftertalk 13:45, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  • Comment I would suggest Darwin review MOS:GENDERID. If the child uses she/her pronouns we should not be referring to her with he/him pronouns. Simonm223 (talk) 15:06, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    @Simonm223 I would suggest you to recall we ate talking about a 4 year child whose social gender was chosen by their mother after the child refused to play with what she calls "boy toys", such as toy cars and Marvel puppets. If that's not enough that this kind of gender prejudice was already abhorrent and condemned even in the generation of my babyboomer parents, one of the first things we teached as LGBT activists in the 1990s was that our parents don't own us nor our sexuality or our gender. So please let's refrain from doing that kind of suggestions when what is in question is the gender identity of a 4 year old attributed by their mother. Ok? Darwin ^Ahoy! 15:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    @DarwIn, the bottom line is that you don't get to question that. As a complete stranger to that child you have no right to do so, plus this is not the place to even enter into that discussion. How does complete strangers on the internet talking about a child's gender do them any good? This isn't the place anyway so please just follow guidelines, which have been put in place for a good reason. Blue Sonnet (talk) 15:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    I questioned the mother, not the child. I've no idea why we are discussing this here, anyway. Darwin ^Ahoy! 15:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    We're here because this "questioning" appears to be bleeding into transphobic harassment. I would support an indef based on edits like this [76] Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:54, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    The story told above is completely distorted to fit the transphobic's narrative. Simon223, if you want to get the full story, read Thamirys Nunes' page or read its sources (with the help of a translator if needed). Skyshiftertalk 15:33, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    I would like to suggest we follow MOS regardless of people's personal opinion of early childhood gender expression. Simonm223 (talk) 15:38, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Rephrase that as mothers opinions on their 4 year old baby gender expression. Darwin ^Ahoy! 15:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Darwin - I suggest you drop whatever agenda you have, treat other editors with respect, and comply with our MOS (including MOS:GENDERID) - otherwise you will be blocked. GiantSnowman 15:44, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Sure, if in this Wikipedia the community accepts the opinions of a mother of a 4 year old on their child gender based on her very biased self declared social constructs about toy cars being for boys and makeup being for girls, that's perfectly fine, even if those are not my own opinions. To each Wikipedia community their rules and their stuff. People seem to have become very agitated over something on which I've not the least interest on debating here, specially on this space, so I'm retiring myself from this topic. Good debate everyone, have an happy new year, you can find me at my talk page if you need so. Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:07, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Just so everyone knows, the facts are being quite distorted here. It wasn't really an imposition — her daughter, did not want to play with "boy toys", even when being forced by her mom. That's why the mom said she plays with "girl toys" and everything else. The references on said articles weren't thoroughly read, apparently by everybody here.

    Adding to this too: DarwIn, in some edits to the article in the Portuguese Wikipedia, added "quotes" on the word trans and some other parts of the articly, as if was his duty to judge if the girl is trans or not. Anyways, I think what happened in ptwiki stays there.

    And I want to make clear that I'm only stating the things that happened so everyone knows. I do not support blocking him. Eduardo G.^msg-contrib 16:12, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Four year olds are generally not considered babies. You really need to drop this - and probably to avoid editing in the WP:GENSEX area.Simonm223 (talk) 16:08, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    I would suggest a topic ban is imposed. GiantSnowman 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    I would support a topic ban from WP:GENSEX. Simonm223 (talk) 16:11, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Given that much of what they've been saying is about living people I think we would need to expand this to at least cover all other BLPs until such a time as they have demonstrated that they actually understand that the BLP policy applies to non-article spaces on wiki as well as articles. Overall this seems more like NOTHERE than something which a topic ban can remedy. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:14, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Topic ban from GENSEX and BLP, broadly construed, is fine for me. GiantSnowman 16:16, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    I do understand this Wikipedia rules on BLP. Isn't that not enough for you? Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:17, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Given your comments here and at DYK, you clearly do not. GiantSnowman 16:18, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    You seem to have missed the part when I very clearly stated there that I retired myself from that DYN debate. Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    @GiantSnowman nice try, but I don't edit on that topic, anyway. Let's calm down and enjoy the Christmas season. Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:12, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    This is the opposite of the attitude you need to adopt if you want to remain an editor in good standing. Remeber if you didn't edit on that topic we wouldn't be having this discussion, we're here because of edits you made in that topic area. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:15, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Then get your facts right, as I never edited any biography on that topic here, at least that I can recall. Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:18, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    You fundementally misunderstand the scope of WP:BLP and the concept of topic area as well. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:23, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Look, I'm at a family gathering and I really have nor time nor patience for this kind of endless debates, specially on culture wars topics. I've already retired from DYN yesterday but you seem to insist on pursuing this kind of Salem witch hunting here, but really, I'll not be anymore part of that. Roger and over, happy new year. Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:27, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    I think you may be getting different editors confused, I was not a participant at DYN. I did not pursue you to here. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:30, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    it was a collective you. Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:33, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    The collective you did not pursue you here either. Only the OP appears to cross over. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Would recommend that Darwin walk away from the general topic. This would avoid any need for topic bans. GoodDay (talk) 16:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

They cannot be trusted. Above they said "I'm retiring myself from this topic" and yet has continued to post. GiantSnowman 16:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I've continued to post where? Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:23, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I've already walked away from it yesterday, why you're insisting on that lie? Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

You are continuing to post here, ergo you have not "walked away" from it, have you? GiantSnowman 16:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

@DarwIn The issue here is not whether you are right or wrong. The issue here is that you are violating a community guideline. That's it. Either you stop or you will end up getting blocked. I have my own disagreements with that guideline, and as a consequence I simply stay far away from those articles or discussions. You should too. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:27, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

How can I get out of this endless cycle, if each time you ask me to stop and I say I already stopped yesterday, you came back chastising me for having answered again? That's not fair. Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:30, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Simply post a note at the bottom of the discussion stating that given your respectful disagreement with parts of MOS:GENDERID that you will voluntarily avoid any articles or discussions where that is, or may become, an issue. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:34, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Which discussion are you talking about? Now I'm confused. Can't you be more clear? Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

• Heres the main point I can see RE "Cross-wiki harassment." If DarwIn claims they do not regularly edit this topic space and had not previously participated in DYK discussions how did they come to find themselves there just in time to oppose the contribution of an editor they had extensive negative interactions with on another wiki? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:36, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  that's old stuff, I already posted a note there retiring from that space yesterday. I'm really puzzled on what all this fuss is about. Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  This isn't about the transphobia, this is about the harassment (they are seperate by apparently related claims). So how did you find yourself commenting on that DYK? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  I expressed my disagreement with that note, justifying with my opinion, and there's not even any misgendering issue there, AFAIK. Not sure if expressing that opinion here is forbidden or not, but in any case I've posted a note retiring from it already yesterday, so I've no idea what more do you want. Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:46, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  And how did you become aware that there was something to disagree with? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:50, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  precisely because we are currently in the process of evaluating the notability of that person and association at the Portuguese Wikipedia, so it's just natural that related issues on other wikis get monitored too, that's part of the process. You don't agree with that evaluation, and that's perfectly OK. To each Wikipedia their own stuff 🤷 Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  Please link the diff from portuguese wiki where the DYK for this wiki came up. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:59, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  it's the wikipedia articles created yesterday that we are evaluating, not any kind of DYK note. Darwin ^Ahoy! 17:01, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Admitting sockpuppetry

An account created last month admitted to being a sockpuppet account by User:Sewnbegun, after I dorectly asked them through their talkpage.[77] You can check more about Sewnbegun here.[78] Based from my interaction with the sockpuppeteer, this would be their 8th Wikipedia account.Hotwiki (talk) 13:18, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Blocked for sockpuppetry. --Yamla (talk) 13:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)