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@Cannolis - Categorical denial is to say that the direct quote from Styles indicates that he DOES NOT date colleagues. Therefore, anything which says that he would date someone he’s working with (especially second or thirdhand “sources”), probably are less credible as they are less primary as sources than the Dazed quote. In order for it to be categorically more verifiable from Styles himself as a primary source that he’s seeing Olivia Wilde as of 11/2021, you would need something from him saying directly that he is breaking his own rule about not dating coworkers to be involved with Olivia Wilde. There would need to be a quote from him personally as a categorical exception for this recent Dazed quote, or this relationship is less verified, even if it’s true in the tabloids. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/173.227.72.99|173.227.72.99]] ([[User talk:173.227.72.99#top|talk]]) 04:27, 26 January 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
@Cannolis - Categorical denial is to say that the direct quote from Styles indicates that he DOES NOT date colleagues. Therefore, anything which says that he would date someone he’s working with (especially second or thirdhand “sources”), probably are less credible as they are less primary as sources than the Dazed quote. In order for it to be categorically more verifiable from Styles himself as a primary source that he’s seeing Olivia Wilde as of 11/2021, you would need something from him saying directly that he is breaking his own rule about not dating coworkers to be involved with Olivia Wilde. There would need to be a quote from him personally as a categorical exception for this recent Dazed quote, or this relationship is less verified, even if it’s true in the tabloids. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/173.227.72.99|173.227.72.99]] ([[User talk:173.227.72.99#top|talk]]) 04:27, 26 January 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::See [[WP:OR]], which your claims are an excellent example of. I think I'm done with this discussion, especially considering [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Olivia_Wilde&diff=prev&oldid=1062367101 this] prior edit from your IP. [[User:Cannolis|Cannolis]] ([[User talk:Cannolis|talk]]) 04:46, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
::See [[WP:OR]], which your claims are an excellent example of. I think I'm done with this discussion, especially considering [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Olivia_Wilde&diff=prev&oldid=1062367101 this] prior edit from your IP. [[User:Cannolis|Cannolis]] ([[User talk:Cannolis|talk]]) 04:46, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

@Cannolis: Just to be clear: the burden of proof is kind of on you at this point as an editor. Unless you have a direct quote from Harry Styles himself where he is indicating he’s dating Olivia Wilde, then you’re managing the edits on this page with less credible information than what he’s saying explicitly in The Dazed article. It just makes the page you’re managing look kind of tabloid. FYI.

Revision as of 05:07, 26 January 2022

Good articleHarry Styles has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Featured topic starHarry Styles is the main article in the Overview of Harry Styles series, a featured topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 10, 2021Good article nomineeListed
June 1, 2021Featured topic candidatePromoted
Current status: Good article

Personal Life and Sexuality

Hello, all!

It's come to my attention that the google featured snippet about Harry's sexual orientation pulls from this page and essentially calls him straight because of the phrasing of the featured snippet when you type in "is Harry Styles gay" or "is Harry Styles bisexual." Google recognizes this search term and pulls this quote (bolded theirs):

"When asked in a 2013 interview with British GQ whether he was bisexual, he replied, "I'm pretty sure I'm not." In 2017, Styles said he does not feel a need to label his sexuality, adding that "being in a creative field, it's important to be progressive" and "everyone should just be who they want to be"."

As a bisexual man who is a fan of his, I can't help but find this representation of his sexuality on google to be very misleading and even harmful erasure of how he really feels. Harry has written one song explicitly about an experience with a man, and he released a music video where he sensually danced with men and women on coming out day over two years ago now and yet much more weight is being given to a statement he made under pressure in GQ on his sexual orientation when he was 19 years old. He is not a heterosexual man and I think it's harmful to potentially participate in erasing that.

I've been hesitant to have this conversation because I know that it can descend into toxicity so quickly but, since we are heading into a fresh new year, I think it's worth reassessing - is the way this section is written actually correct, or is it being actively harmful not only to the person the article is about, but to conversations about people who are attracted to more than one gender?

H-influenzae (talk) 01:22, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2021

See my comment on the talk page as reasoning for why I believe this needs changing.


Change To

Like many other LGBT+ pop stars, Styles's sexuality has long been subject to media scrutiny.[1] When asked in a 2013 interview with British GQ whether he was bisexual, he said that he was "pretty sure" he was not. [2] He clarified this statement in a 2017 interview in the Sun, saying that he does not feel a need to label his sexuality. [3] In 2018, Harry released a new song, Medicine, during his Live on Tour that stated, "The boys and the girls are in, I mess around with them, and I'm okay with it." [4]

Due to his lack of desire to label himself combining with his flamboyant and gender non-conforming image, Harry has frequently been accused of queerbaiting (e.g. using LGBTQ aesthetics for profit.) He refuted this in a 2019 interview in the Guardian, saying, "Am I sprinkling in nuggets of sexual ambiguity to try and be more interesting? No." [5] H-influenzae (talk) 02:20, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. See WP:OR.  Ganbaruby! (talk) 09:25, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t think this is an appropriate response to the issue that I have been raising for several days, which is that his personal life section has serious issues in the way that it’s worded - it doesn’t have to be identical to this but it’s not a well-written section about his sexuality which is a sensitive issue for LGBT people.

H-influenzae (talk) 02:42, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 December 2021

It is unsubstantiated or misinformation that Harry Styles is dating Olivia Wilde. This is a lie. 173.227.72.99 (talk) 00:55, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The claim that they are dating is reliably sourced, so unless you can prove otherwise, it will remain in the article. Thanks. Pupsterlove02 talkcontribs 01:07, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Harry Styles Personal Life

Hello to all!

I realize I have been accused of “edit warring” at this point and my apologies but I really do not mean to edit war. I am simply trying to make the case that the way Harry’s personal life section is written is misleading and inaccurate with regard to how it does not make it clear that he does not label his sexuality, but is attracted to men and women. Harry is not the only celebrity to do so - many other celebrities came out as non-labeling just this year, and it seems like the fact that the article treats his sexuality as a lot more ambiguous than it is, is actively harmful to the wider discourse, to non-labeled LGBT people, and of course, to the public figure himself, who I think deserves to be taken at his word.

I think that this should at least be a conversation on the table that “Styles’ sexuality has long been subject to speculation” is simply a disrespectful thing to say about a human being - we wouldn’t say it about an average person, and a celebrity should be treated the same way. I also think that it is trivializing to frame his statement that he does not label his sexuality as on the same level as “it’s important to be open-minded” etc. - the sentence sounds like he’s a lot more ambiguous about it, when this is not the only time he’s refused to label his sexuality as an answer. He said he didn’t label it in The Face in 2019, and implies it in the Guardian article too. I also think that treating the Guardian as his base statement on his sexuality and gender presentation just because it was the most recent time he was asked gives too much weight to one source.

I also think we need to reassess the role of Medicine as he brought the song back in the last third of Love on Tour: US; it was prominent enough that Rob Sheffield wrote about it in a review of Harryween and in a follow up thread he even mentioned that the lyrics are confirmed as “I mess around with them” and that Harry had fact checked that for him in his 2019 RS interview which is one piece of potentially new information https://twitter.com/robsheff/status/1455318016560861187?s=20

I realize this song is not “official” but I think its significance has been brushed off. Tons of news outlets have reported about it for three years, including recently. It’s well known as a song he performs among both casual and serious fans, and he makes it pretty clear while performing that the song is about himself.

We don’t have to make all of these changes but we should make some of them because this section is just bad.

H-influenzae (talk) 03:03, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any source saying Styles is attracted to men and women. Reliable sources publish articles that contain speculations about people's–specifically celebrities'–personal lives all the time, including but not limited to romances, sexualities, feuds, criminal activities. Nothing disrespectful about it. Styles' queerbaiting does not have enough support from reliable sources to be due for inclusion. Analyzing lyrics from "Medicine" to synthesize a sexual orientation is improper. KyleJoantalk 03:32, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

With all due respect, it’s kind of a heteronormative attitude to say that I’m “synthesizing a sexual orientation” - that would be claiming based upon those lyrics that I believed he identified as a specific sexuality. If I were to claim that he was bisexual from that, then to our knowledge that would be inaccurate, but I just literally quoted a song he wrote and said ‘he said he is attracted to men and women in this song.’ To manufacture heterosexuality out of that is, I feel, equally improper, unless you believe that there is something inherently neutral about identifying as straight, which there is not.

H-influenzae (talk) 03:45, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Who manufactured heterosexuality? Where in the article does it say that Styles is heterosexual? KyleJoantalk 03:48, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]


You are saying I am synthesizing a sexual orientation by saying (accurately) he has lyrics saying he is attracted to men and women. I’m really trying to not use language that will get me banned again because I am aware these are challenging conversations and I don’t want to make ad hominem attacks, but if it’s “synthesizing a sexual orientation” to say the things that he actually wrote. . .like I’m genuinely confused about what you’re trying to say there. Is it not equally “synthesizing a sexual orientation” to omit that information and imply that he is only attracted to women? — Preceding unsigned comment added by H-influenzae (talkcontribs) 03:56, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a specific rule on Wikipedia that specifically states clear and confirmed song lyrics are not allowed to be cited in conversations about sexual orientation? Is there a way to word the inclusion of Medicine’s lyrics that would satisfy Wikipedia’s editorial standards?

H-influenzae (talk) 04:00, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unless reliable sources regard the lyrics as important to the conversation, then no. I get it. You think they are. Now present the reliable sources that believe the same. Little Mix has a song about wings. Should we include in their article that they're humans with wings because I believe those lyrics are important to the discussion about human biology? Aside from outright ridiculousness, that wholly violates WP:DUE. Do you still not understand that? The article says he does not label his sexuality. You're trying to piece different sources together to imply he is not only attracted to women, which no reliable source supports. Please read WP:ACTIVIST. KyleJoantalk 04:04, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I really think the Wings song is a false equivalence for many reasons and that saying ‘his own word’ is not credible is something I disagree with but if that’s the rule across the board then I understand.

H-influenzae (talk) 04:09, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You need reliable sources that consider the song lyrics to be true statements about himself. Wikipedia can't just assume that his lyrics are true statements. KyleJoan's example was an exaggeration in order to show that your argument was flawed, because music lyrics can say anything. A closer example perhaps would be to write that Michael Jackson had a fan named Billie Jean that claimed was his lover had a son of his, based only on the lyrics for "Billie Jean". If you check the Background section, you'll how there are reliable sources that talk about how that song is or may be based on real events. But Wikipedia doesn't say so simply based on the lyrics, we do it based on the reliable sources. —El Millo (talk) 04:37, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yup. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:06, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Slightly off-topic, but this discussion reminded me of something I read in a WaPo article:

"Author Hannah Moskowitz was browsing Wikipedia last summer when she fired off a tweet: "me, yelling at the 'personal life' section of Wikipedia: JUST TELL ME IF THEY'RE GAY." It racked up nearly 6,000 retweets and 36,000 likes. Moskowitz still isn’t sure why that particular tweet struck such a nerve — but it’s a long-running joke in the LGBT community that if you want to find out if a famous person is gay, you go right to Wiki’s “personal life.”" Please carry on.Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:04, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It is funny that that article mentions Styles specifically as being someone who a person may want to search for specifically this information. I do feel like his wikipedia page has to contend with the fact that he has been bothered about his sexuality and relationships for so long, ever since he was a teenager, that he’s grown very hardened to being asked about it, which I feel is not very conducive to the way an encyclopedia values certain sources - if a public figure wants to engage with certain aspects of their life in their work, but doesn’t feel like talking about that with a journalist, it puts one in a bit of a bind of how to talk about them. I’d love to add a line in the section that mentions how private he is because I do think that adds a lot of context to someone uninitiated who may wonder if he is a provocateur who only dates famous people, which he does get painted as sometimes, but I’m still trying to figure out how to word it. He’s never spoken openly about any of the relationships actually on his profile except for Caroline so I think it’s worthwhile to note that part of his perceived cagey-ness is that he’s just a private person generally.

H-influenzae (talk) 22:51, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Huh, I didn't even notice that Styles was mentioned. That is funny. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:20, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Page 161- in this book [6] may have something useful, either for this article or the queerbaiting article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:49, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I definitely have the opinion that accusing real people of queerbaiting is kind of shitty because generally it’s easier to be a successful straight person than it is to be a successful queer person (or at least, a queer man, I know that the sexualization of lesbians is a whole other topic) - in the case of Harry Styles, he’s very talented and would no doubt be successful if he were as energetic and engaging and good at songwriting while being masculine. He’d probably appeal to even MORE people in my personal opinion, because fewer people would be put off by the way he chooses to present himself and live his life. But he chooses to be authentic no matter what people seem to throw at him and in my personal opinion I think it’s commendable. I saw him live just this year for the first time and the authenticity and joy he brings to the stage is really powerful. For anyone who feels an amount of cynicism about him, I’d really recommend attending one of his shows! Really cool atmosphere.

H-influenzae (talk) 23:06, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 25 January 2022

Olivia Wilde is not his partner. They have never confirmed their relationship nor has harry ever spoken about it. He said in his most recent interview with dazed that he would like to keep his work life and personal life SEPARATED. There is no reason why Olivia Wilde should be marked as his partner, it’s disrespectful to him and invades his privacy. Vanessaaruby (talk) 06:14, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Our article does not mark Wilde as his "partner", just contains sources describing him as dating Wilde. Cannolis (talk) 07:26, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
They may not have, but thanks to the harpersbazaar.com ref it's a reasonable sentence to include. As a public figure, these things can happen, and the sentence is ok per WP:BLP. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:35, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There are three citations regarding Olivia Wilde. Please see the verifiability not truth essay on verifiability.
Editors who doubt the veracity of Olivia Wildes's relationship with Styles need to produce sufficient contrary citations showng that affirming the relationship in the article is WP:UNDUE or indicating that is WP:OUTDATED. Peaceray (talk) 17:54, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Dates of Relationship with Olivia Wilde

There seems to be a discrepancy between the Harry Styles wiki page, the Olivia Wilde wiki page and within sections of the Olivia Wilde Wikipedia page as to the dates of the relationship. Can this be reviewed?


Olivia Wilde Wiki page

Overview section


“* Jason Sudeikis
(2011–2020)

  • Harry Styles
(2020-present)”

Bio section

“In January 2021, Wilde began dating Harry Styles after meeting in November 2020 during the filming of Wilde's Don't Worry Darling.[82][83]”

Harry Styles Wikipedia page

“Since January 2021, Styles has been in a relationship with actress and director Olivia Wilde.[177][178][179]“ 173.227.72.99 (talk) 03:24, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Categorical denial by Harry Styles of relationship with Olivia Wilde, including citations:

Harry Styles categorically denied any relationship with Olivia Wilde directly in a recent publication from Dazed Magazine. Kindly see below quote and urls for your reference, and update this page if possible:

“ His relationship with Wilde has been a daily feature of celebrity gossip rags, though the privacy around it is closely guarded by Styles and images of them together are scarce.

“I’ve always tried to compartmentalise my personal life and my working life,” [Harry Styles] explains. Paparazzi snaps suggest the two are very much in love, though any assumptions on his love life are curtailed for his Dazed cover story.” - Nov 15, 2021, Dazed Magazine interview.

URL: https://www.dazeddigital.com/music/article/54765/1/harry-styles-pleasing-brand-cover-2021-interview

Additional mentions of this quote regarding Olivia Wilde:

People magazine: https://people.com/music/harry-styles-says-he-tries-to-compartmentalize-his-work-and-personal-life/

The international news: https://www.thenews.com.pk/amp/909371-harry-styles-explains-why-he-remains-tight-lipped-about-his-romance-with-olivia-wilde — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.227.72.99 (talk) 03:46, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like the only discrepancy is the infobox on Olivia Wilde listing their relationship starting in 2020 rather than 2021 as the article text in both the Wilde and Styles articles currently reads. Have changed it to match, though I'm not sure this is correct. The sources out there are unsurprisingly unclear on when they started dating - I did find this People article from Jan 7 2021 in which "a source" told People they had been dating "a few weeks". It might be better to change the article text to 2020 instead, though will wait for others to weigh in on this. However, your claim that "Harry Styles categorically denied any relationship with Olivia Wilde" is absurd - your quote reads "His relationship with Wilde..." and the sentence immediately preceding that in the Dazed article is "Directed by Olivia Wilde, whom Styles began dating during filming, the film isn’t due for release until September 2022." Your People link includes "he's been dating actress and director Olivia Wilde" and the 3rd link is just multiple blurbs about them having a romantic relationship. Cannolis (talk) 04:18, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Cannolis - Categorical denial is to say that the direct quote from Styles indicates that he DOES NOT date colleagues. Therefore, anything which says that he would date someone he’s working with (especially second or thirdhand “sources”), probably are less credible as they are less primary as sources than the Dazed quote. In order for it to be categorically more verifiable from Styles himself as a primary source that he’s seeing Olivia Wilde as of 11/2021, you would need something from him saying directly that he is breaking his own rule about not dating coworkers to be involved with Olivia Wilde. There would need to be a quote from him personally as a categorical exception for this recent Dazed quote, or this relationship is less verified, even if it’s true in the tabloids. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.227.72.99 (talk) 04:27, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:OR, which your claims are an excellent example of. I think I'm done with this discussion, especially considering this prior edit from your IP. Cannolis (talk) 04:46, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Cannolis: Just to be clear: the burden of proof is kind of on you at this point as an editor. Unless you have a direct quote from Harry Styles himself where he is indicating he’s dating Olivia Wilde, then you’re managing the edits on this page with less credible information than what he’s saying explicitly in The Dazed article. It just makes the page you’re managing look kind of tabloid. FYI.