Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Germany task force: Difference between revisions
Moving posts to newly created Archive 4 for 2011, hope folks don't mind |
Moving posts to newly created Archive 5 for 2012-2016, hope folks don't mind |
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#[[/Archive 3|Archive 3 (2010)]] |
#[[/Archive 3|Archive 3 (2010)]] |
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#[[/Archive 4|Archive 4 (2011)]] |
#[[/Archive 4|Archive 4 (2011)]] |
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#[[/Archive 5|Archive 5 (2012–2016)]] |
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== German tv sport journalists == |
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On english wikipedia many german famous tv sportjournalists are missing, for example |
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[[Waldemar Hartmann]], [[Ernst Huberty]], [[Heribert Faßbender]], [[Gaby Papenburg]], [[Marcel Reif]], [[Gerd Rubenbauer]] or [[Matthias Opdenhövel]]. Maybe someone has time to translate them and now i will hope, that [[Germany national football team]] wins [[UEFA Euro 2012]]. [[Special:Contributions/178.3.16.111|178.3.16.111]] ([[User talk:178.3.16.111|talk]]) 23:25, 12 June 2012 (UTC) |
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== 2012-13 season articles are pretty lacking == |
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A whole slew of 2012-13 season articles were recently created for German football teams. A lot of these articles don't have a single word of prose and just list game results.[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=2012%E2%80%9313_Karlsruher_SC_season][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_1._FC_Union_Berlin_season] I know that season articles are basically lists, but even lists require some sort of lead to explain the context of the list. Most "beginning of the season" articles at least say how many seasons the team has had ("The 2012 New York Yankees season will be the 112th season for the New York Yankees franchise.") and what the result of the season opener was. They may also discuss team acquisitions, line-up changes, management changes, etc. [[User:Kaldari|Kaldari]] ([[User talk:Kaldari|talk]]) 20:51, 15 August 2012 (UTC) |
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:Your assessment is quite correct. The creator, [[User:EdvonSchleck]], has already been warned about the possibility of this articles being deleted by [[User:Kingjeff]] about a month ago. If no improvement is forthcoming I suggest you nominate them for deletion. But please give the creator another warning that this could happen to give him a chance of fixing the issues first, out of courtesy. [[User:Calistemon|Calistemon]] ([[User talk:Calistemon|talk]]) 21:01, 15 August 2012 (UTC) |
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== Club names in the season articles? == |
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Does there exist any manual of style for the length of club names in the season articles? I am not sure what to take. |
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Example: |
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{{football box collapsible |
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|date ={{Start date|2012|11|25|df=y}} |
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|time =17:30 |
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|round =13 |
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|team1 = TSG 1899 Hoffenheim |
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|score = 1–2 |
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|report = [http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/spieltag/1-bundesliga/2012-13/13/1441754/spielanalyse_1899-hoffenheim-3209_bayer-leverkusen-9.html Report] {{In lang|de}} |
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|team2 = [[Bayer 04 Leverkusen]] |
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|goals1 = [[Matthieu Delpierre|Delpierre]] {{yel|9}} <br> [[Fabian Johnson|Johnson]] {{goal|59}} |
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|goals2 = [[Lars Bender|Bender]] {{goal|15}} <br> [[Dani Carvajal|Carvajal]] {{goal|38}} <br> [[Oemer Toprak|Toprak]] {{yel|40}} <br> [[Stefan Reinartz|Reinartz]] {{yel|78}} |
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|stadium = Rhein-Neckar Arena |
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|location = Sinsheim |
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|attendance = 22,100 |
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|referee = [[Christian Dingert]] |
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|result = L |
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}} |
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{{football box collapsible |
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|date ={{Start date|2012|11|25|df=y}} |
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|time =17:30 |
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|round =13 |
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|team1 = 1899 Hoffenheim |
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|score = 1–2 |
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|report = [http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/spieltag/1-bundesliga/2012-13/13/1441754/spielanalyse_1899-hoffenheim-3209_bayer-leverkusen-9.html Report] {{In lang|de}} |
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|team2 = [[Bayer 04 Leverkusen|Bayer Leverkusen]] |
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|goals1 = [[Matthieu Delpierre|Delpierre]] {{yel|9}} <br> [[Fabian Johnson|Johnson]] {{goal|59}} |
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|goals2 = [[Lars Bender|Bender]] {{goal|15}} <br> [[Dani Carvajal|Carvajal]] {{goal|38}} <br> [[Oemer Toprak|Toprak]] {{yel|40}} <br> [[Stefan Reinartz|Reinartz]] {{yel|78}} |
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|stadium = Rhein-Neckar Arena |
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|location = Sinsheim |
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|attendance = 22,100 |
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|referee = [[Christian Dingert]] |
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|result = L |
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}} |
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{{football box collapsible |
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|date ={{Start date|2012|11|25|df=y}} |
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|time =17:30 |
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|round =13 |
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|team1 = Hoffenheim |
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|score = 1–2 |
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|report = [http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/spieltag/1-bundesliga/2012-13/13/1441754/spielanalyse_1899-hoffenheim-3209_bayer-leverkusen-9.html Report] {{In lang|de}} |
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|team2 = [[Bayer 04 Leverkusen|Leverkusen]] |
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|goals1 = [[Matthieu Delpierre|Delpierre]] {{yel|9}} <br> [[Fabian Johnson|Johnson]] {{goal|59}} |
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|goals2 = [[Lars Bender|Bender]] {{goal|15}} <br> [[Dani Carvajal|Carvajal]] {{goal|38}} <br> [[Oemer Toprak|Toprak]] {{yel|40}} <br> [[Stefan Reinartz|Reinartz]] {{yel|78}} |
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|stadium = Rhein-Neckar Arena |
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|location = Sinsheim |
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|attendance = 22,100 |
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|referee = [[Christian Dingert]] |
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|result = L |
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}} |
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[[User:Zahnfee|Zahnfee]] ([[User talk:Zahnfee|talk]]) 14:41, 9 December 2012 (UTC) |
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:For Germany, yes. [[WP:KARLSRUHER]]. Broadly speaking it should be the same as you put in a player's infobox. [[User:ArtVandelay13|ArtVandelay13]] ([[User talk:ArtVandelay13|talk]]) 15:16, 9 December 2012 (UTC) |
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Thanks for the link. But it seems like it does not cover all cases. |
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Following the advice, it would lead to "FC Schalke" and "TSG Hoffenheim" instead the more common terms "FC Schalke 04" and "1899 Hoffenheim" which are used in the real world (kicker.de, spox.de, sport1.de, bild.de) and more or less in the player profiles. The player profiles are using btw both, full names or a the shorter version. |
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I tend to use the name which is used by kicker in ambiguous cases. What do you think? [[User:Zahnfee|Zahnfee]] ([[User talk:Zahnfee|talk]]) 10:51, 10 December 2012 (UTC) |
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:That's exactly what I'd suggest: follow Kicker as your example. You're right "Schalke 04", is correct, "FC Schalke" is never used, "FC Schalke 04" is too much, and "Schalke" is not enough. I should probably make the article clearer. [[User:ArtVandelay13|ArtVandelay13]] ([[User talk:ArtVandelay13|talk]]) 19:47, 10 December 2012 (UTC) |
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== Ola Kamara == |
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I want to expand the article about Norway freshest expatriate footballer, [[Ola Kamara]] for [[WP:DYK|DYK]], and have used the last couple of days searching for information about him, but the info about his transfer to Germany is somewhat unclear. Norwegian media reports that he have signed a six-month contract with 1860 München, with an option to sign for further years. His article on Norwegian Wikipedia claims that he is loaned out from Strømsgodset, and that 1860 München got an option to buy him after six months. The German Wikipedia however, claims that SV Ried have bought him, and loaned him out to 1860 München with option to buy. I've also found this info in an unreliable Norwegian source, which says they've gotten the information from the newspaper "Österreich". As I don't speak German, I would like to ask for some assistant from a German-speaker to expand his article about the transfer to Germany, with a citation from a reliable source, and I'll expand the article about his time in Norway and hopefully nominate it for DYK. [[User:Mentoz86|Mentoz86]] ([[User talk:Mentoz86|talk]]) 06:01, 23 January 2013 (UTC) |
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:1860 Munich's official website says he's been signed on loan from Strømsgodset, so that's what I'd go with in the article. [[User:J Mo 101|J Mo 101]] ([[User talk:J Mo 101|talk]]) 13:33, 23 January 2013 (UTC) |
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::Thank you for the help. There is only one problem, his contract with Strømsgodset expired 31 December 2012, and I can't find any evidence that he signed a new contract with the club - he can't be loaned out from Strømsgodset then? [[User:Mentoz86|Mentoz86]] ([[User talk:Mentoz86|talk]]) 12:52, 26 January 2013 (UTC) |
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:::Actually, re-reading the official site again I'm not so sure. It just says he's on loan, but not from who. The loan from SV Ried is mentioned [http://www.tz-online.de/sport/fussball/tsv-1860/kamara-kann-neue-loewen-stuermer-wirklich-2708367.html here] though I'm not sure hown reliable it is. [[User:J Mo 101|J Mo 101]] ([[User talk:J Mo 101|talk]]) 19:49, 26 January 2013 (UTC) |
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::::What about [http://www.weltfussball.de/entry/_165157_ried-holt-stuermer-kamara-und-ve/ this]? [[User:Mentoz86|Mentoz86]] ([[User talk:Mentoz86|talk]]) 21:10, 26 January 2013 (UTC) |
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::::Google translate tells me that Weltfusball confirms the transfer to Ried, but can we call it a reliable source? But I guess that since we have a number of unreliable sources confirming the transfer to Ried, and the official club's website saying that they signed Kamara on loan, we would state in the article that he is on loan from Ried? [[User:Mentoz86|Mentoz86]] ([[User talk:Mentoz86|talk]]) 11:54, 27 January 2013 (UTC) |
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:::::It's looks as if that is the most likely situation. Ideally we'd add a source confirming his departure from Strømsgodset as well. [[User:J Mo 101|J Mo 101]] ([[User talk:J Mo 101|talk]]) 00:49, 28 January 2013 (UTC) |
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== Summer transfers == |
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July 1 may be the offical date, but with the season over these players have effectively moved, and most will be playing in friendlies for their new clubs until then. I say we make these changes already, otherwise there'll be too much work to catch up on on July 1 and we'll end up out of date. [[User:ArtVandelay13|ArtVandelay13]] ([[User talk:ArtVandelay13|talk]]) 12:40, 6 June 2013 (UTC) |
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== German interational footballers == |
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According to the [[:Category:Germany international footballers|category]], there are now less than 50 players who have played for Germany without an article on the English Wikipedia. Most of the missing articles can be found in [[List of Germany international footballers 1908–1942|this]] list, so any help reducing that number further would be much appreciated! [[User:J Mo 101|J Mo 101]] ([[User talk:J Mo 101|talk]]) 23:22, 7 August 2013 (UTC) |
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== Popular pages tool update == |
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As of January, the popular pages tool has moved from the Toolserver to [[Wikipedia:Wikimedia Labs|Wikimedia Tool Labs]]. The code has changed significantly from the Toolserver version, but users should notice few differences. Please take a moment to look over your project's list for any anomalies, such as pages that you expect to see that are missing or pages that seem to have more views than expected. Note that unlike other tools, this tool aggregates all views from redirects, which means it will typically have higher numbers. (For January 2014 specifically, 35 hours of data is missing from the WMF data, which was approximated from other dates. For most articles, this should yield a more accurate number. However, a few articles, like ones featured on the Main Page, may be off). |
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Web tools, to replace the ones at [[tools:~alexz/pop]], will become available over the next few weeks at [[toollabs:popularpages]]. All of the historical data (back to July 2009 for some projects) has been copied over. The [[toollabs:popularpages/view.php|tool to view historical data]] is currently partially available (assessment data and a few projects may not be available at the moment). The tool to add new projects to the bot's list is also available [[toollabs:popularpages/config.php|now]] (editing the configuration of current projects coming soon). Unlike the previous tool, all changes will be effective immediately. [[mw:Help:OAuth|OAuth]] is used to authenticate users, allowing only regular users to make changes to prevent abuse. A visible history of configuration additions and changes is coming soon. Once tools become fully available, their toolserver versions will redirect to Labs. |
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If you have any questions, want to report any bugs, or there are any features you would like to see that aren't currently available on the Toolserver tools, see the [[User:Mr.Z-man/Popular pages FAQ|updated FAQ]] or contact me on my talk page. [[User:Mr.Z-bot|Mr.Z-bot]] ([[User talk:Mr.Z-bot|talk]]) (for <span style="font-family:Broadway">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span>) 05:06, 23 February 2014 (UTC) |
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== Vandalism == |
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Hey guys. I just noticed an act of vandalism regarding shirt numbers in articles of [[VfL Wolfsburg]] players. Take a look here: [[Special:Contributions/79.107.235.144]]. Do you perhaps know an easy way to undo all that? Kind regards. [[User:DrunkenGerman|DrunkenGerman]] ([[User talk:DrunkenGerman|talk]]) 16:38, 28 July 2014 (UTC) |
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:The easiest way I know is to select [[Special:Contributions/79.107.235.144]], select the diffs and then undo the edit. [[User:Calistemon|Calistemon]] ([[User talk:Calistemon|talk]]) 02:16, 29 July 2014 (UTC) |
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== Updating all teams season matches. == |
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( request you to comment {{ping|Wiggy!}}, {{ping|Secret Agent Julio}}, {{ping|Sir Sputnik}}, {{ping|Fischer47392}} ) |
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Hi, |
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I have a raw proposal which can be useful to update all the bundesliga and pokal matches in team's season pages effectively. |
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Now each match need to be updated in multiple articles and some teams season matches were not updated. |
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My propasl is to create a template for football macth with Id, and use template in other pages where it is required. |
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In short, if a Pokal/leguage match is played between BVB and Bayern, we just update a match template with ID (lets use BL1, BL2... or PK1, PK2......). We can just use this template {{<big>BL1</big>}} in both team season pages and pokal page. |
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Advantage is No need to update(or copy paste) same match in different pages. |
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Idea is some what similar to Bundeliga table. Update table in template and use team id to show its table in page. |
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--[[User:Rasulnrasul|Rasulnrasul]] ([[User talk:Rasulnrasul|talk]]) 01:12, 12 April 2015 (UTC) |
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:You would have a hell of a lot of templates that would only be used three times each, at club a, club b and the competition article. I think you will have these templates pretty quickley deleted and outlawed on the grounds that they can very easily be substituted with the information in the articles. [[User:Calistemon|Calistemon]] ([[User talk:Calistemon|talk]]) 04:31, 12 April 2015 (UTC) |
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:: Its not multiple templates, single template for Leguage where all matches will be updated and with match ID, just show match info where ever required. --[[User:Rasulnrasul|Rasulnrasul]] ([[User talk:Rasulnrasul|talk]]) 20:12, 12 April 2015 (UTC) |
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::: That is an interesting idea. Personally, I have been working on adding all missing matches, and am currently only four articles away. This would be an easy way to fix mistakes instead of having to fix it on both articles. And I know that the style used to not be very uniform until I started adding it. This would not work for the Bayern, Hertha, and Schalke articles though, as they use tables, despite the fact the the template Football box collapsible is pretty widely accepted. This would also help with the fact that the code can differ on some articles (i.e. parameters in different orders). And you would need to add a way to be able to place the correct color on each page if it is not a draw, which could be fairly simple. This would help, as when I looked at articles from previous years, they are missing many matches, and it looks horrible. But at least for now (since MD 24) I have kept everything right up to date. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Secret Agent Julio">SAJ</span>]] [[User:Secret Agent Julio/T|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor: help;" title="Feel free to leave me a message.">(T)</span>]] 21:38, 18 April 2015 (UTC) |
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::::Hi SAJ, thanks for comment, the main problem to be solved is updating not leaving any club match in season page. Only few famous club pages are getting update regulary, many pages are updated late or not updated at all. And yes bayern , schalke has lot of editor to have their own tables. --[[User:Rasulnrasul|Rasulnrasul]] ([[User talk:Rasulnrasul|talk]]) 22:02, 18 April 2015 (UTC) |
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== 2014/15 3. Liga error in table - matchday 36 completed. == |
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[[Special:Contributions/167.0.234.181|167.0.234.181]] ([[User talk:167.0.234.181|talk]]) 03:17, 12 May 2015 (UTC) |
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Matchday 36: Chemnitzer FC did NOT draw the game at Regensburg. They WON 0-1 (won in the last minute)! I did the modification in the crossed table, but the league table needs to be modified accordingly. See the German language version of the Article "2014/15 3. Liga". Thanks. REF: http://www.dfb.de/3-liga/spieltagtabelle/ |
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== Questions == |
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Hello. I had a few questions I was hoping to get answered. First of all, does anyone know what German women football leagues are fully professional? I have not been able to find it. Is it the Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga? Also, does anyone know if the [[2007–08 Regionalliga]] Nord was fully professional? Because someone made the article [[2007–08 Dynamo Dresden season]], which probably should not exist if the league was not fully professional, similar to the decision made [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2012–13 SC Paderborn 07 season|in this discussion]]. Also, is it appropriate to make club season articles for women's teams? I saw that there were three season articles for [[1. FFC Turbine Potsdam]], and just wanted to make sure that was okay. Thanks for the help! [[User:Secret Agent Julio|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Secret Agent Julio">SAJ</span>]] [[User:Secret Agent Julio/T|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor: help;" title="Feel free to leave me a message.">(T)</span>]] 04:48, 6 June 2015 (UTC) |
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:Before the introduction of the 3. Liga in 2008–09 only the Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga were professional leagues [http://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussball/einfuehrung-der-dritten-liga-reform-mit-schoenheitsfehlern-a-670424.html] [http://www.11freunde.de/artikel/vor-der-einfuehrung-der-3-liga]. Therefore, Regionalliga Nord was not fully professional in the 2007–08 season and the [[2007–08 Dynamo Dresden season]] should be deleted. |
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:I could not find concrete sources about the German women's leagues, only links that said that the only professional women's league exists in the USA, so I'm afraid that the German leagues are not professional. --[[User:Jaellee|Jaellee]] ([[User talk:Jaellee|talk]]) 17:10, 10 June 2015 (UTC) |
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::Hello. Thanks for the response. So, I was hoping to understand correctly professional leagues. Is the following statement correct? "Up until the 1962–63 season, there was never a fully professional league. From the 1963–64 season until the 1973–74 season, the Bundesliga was then the only professional league. From the 1974–75 season to the 2007–08 season, the Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga were the only professional leagues. From the 2008–09 onwards the only professional leagues are the Bundesliga, 2. Bundesliga, and 3. Liga." Also, was there ever a fully professional East German league? Thank you for your help. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Secret Agent Julio">SAJ</span>]] [[User:Secret Agent Julio/T|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor: help;" title="Feel free to leave me a message.">(T)</span>]] 07:03, 12 June 2015 (UTC) |
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:::The statement is mostly correct but not fully. It is a bit difficult to explain. This part is correct: ''"From the 1974–75 season to the 2007–08 season, the Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga were the only professional leagues. From the 2008–09 onwards the only professional leagues are the Bundesliga, 2. Bundesliga, and 3. Liga."'' |
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:::Up to the 1962–63 season there was no national league in Germany. Historically, the DFB was strongly defending the idea of the amateur player. Nevertheless in 1932, the legalization of professional football was decided. But with the upcoming Nazi regime and the Second World War these plans never came true. After the war, there were several regional top leagues in Germany which had some kind of "Vertragsspieler" (contract player) who had to have a job outside football and the money they could earn with football was limited (at least officially). The DFB was still fighting tooth and nail against the creation of a national league because they were afraid that this would ultimately lead to professional players. The clubs threatened to create their own football association if the DFB would not budge and so the Bundesliga was introduced in 1963, but the players were not official professionals. There were called "Lizenzspieler" (license player) and were not required to have a job outside football anymore. A salary cap was still in effect, but it was quite often violated. With the [[Bundesliga scandal (1971)|Bundesliga scandal in 1971]] the pressure on the DFB increased again to allow professional players because one reason for the manipulation of the matches seemed to be the low pay of the players. So in 1972, the salary cap was revoked and since that time the Bundesliga was officially a professional league (there is a nice history about professional football in Germany explaining all this in detail [http://www.bpb.de/gesellschaft/sport/bundesliga/160779/geschichte-der-bundesliga?p=all], but it is only available in German). |
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:::I cannot say that if Wikipedia considers the Bundesliga from the 1962–63 season to 1971–72 season as fully professional (with regard to season articles for example), you should ask this at [[WT:FOOTY]]. I would personally say yes, because the Bundesliga was effectively a professional league, but officially it was not until 1972. |
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:::I cannot really answer your question about professional leagues in East Germany, because as a former West German, I've never bothered much with the football in East Germany. As far as I know, all the players in East Germany were officially amateurs, but effectively they were professionals because they officially had jobs (mostly working for the government/military) but they did not have to work and could concentrate fully on football [http://www.mz-web.de/nachrichten/ddr-fussball-profis-mit-parteiauftrag,20641290,22599916.html]. --[[User:Jaellee|Jaellee]] ([[User talk:Jaellee|talk]]) 11:24, 12 June 2015 (UTC) |
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::::Thanks for the detailed response. It was very helpful. So now, I was wondering what are the guidelines for notability of club season articles. I am not sure if there are set guidelines on it yet. Here is what I thought. All the professional leagues club seasons can have an article (from the 1972–73 season to present). Before then, only the teams at the top level may have a club season article (i.e. Bundesliga before the 1972–73 season (it has always been the top flight, correct?), and before then, the Oberligas). But this leaves the question, what about East German clubs? Can they have season articles? For only the top flight, or lower levels too? A few already exist, and I am wondering if this is okay. Also, what about women's clubs? Can they have season articles? For only the top flight, or lower levels too? A few of theses exist as well. Did East Germany have women's football leagues? Also, on a side note, what if a club's name changes? Should the season article's name be correct for the time period? I am not sure how many clubs this applies to. The only one I know of is VfB Leipzig, or now 1. FC Lokomotive Leipzig. And a random question, since you seem very knowledgeable about German football: why did the 3. Liga not become part of the DFL? Thanks! [[User:Secret Agent Julio|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Secret Agent Julio">SAJ</span>]] [[User:Secret Agent Julio/T|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor: help;" title="Feel free to leave me a message.">(T)</span>]] 20:38, 15 June 2015 (UTC) |
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:::::Don't forget '''[[WP:GNG]]''' in regards to the club seasons. Even if not fully professional a club season may still meet notability requirements when ''a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list.'' I would think that Dynamo Dresden received enough coverage in print amd omline media, even in the Regionalliga, to meet that requirement. It would however be up to the creator of such an article to prove it did. [[User:Calistemon|Calistemon]] ([[User talk:Calistemon|talk]]) 05:19, 17 June 2015 (UTC) |
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:::::You can create season articles for clubs that played in a league that was fully pro. However, as I've understood it, top flight leagues do not automatically confer notability on a player, so in that sense, the DDR-Oberliga would not automatically make a player notable. (I think.) Hence you can only create season articles on seasons played after reunification in what were then pro leagues, i.e. Bundesliga, 2. Bundesliga and 3. Liga. |
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:::::Nevertheless, if you can show [[WP:GNG]] is fulfilled, it is quite possible in my mind to create season articles for at least the top flight seasons of any East German club - but of course these articles have to include prose, not only tables, and must be sourced as well. |
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:::::As for the 3. Liga not coming under the roof of the DFL, I believe that was never really an option, as the 3. Liga was supposed to be the new "premium product" of the DFB in terms of league football. [[User:Madcynic|Madcynic]] ([[User talk:Madcynic|talk]]) 14:00, 17 June 2015 (UTC) |
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::::::Some answers: |
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::::::Since its foundation, the Bundesliga always was the top flight in (West) Germany. |
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::::::As far as I know, there were women's leagues in the DDR, since 1979 there were regional leagues and in 1987–88 the DDR Oberliga started. [http://www.mdr.de/damals/archiv/artikel119692.html] |
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::::::I'm not sure why the 3. Liga is organzied by the DFB and not by the DFL, the only sources I've found agree with [[User:Madcynic]]. --[[User:Jaellee|Jaellee]] ([[User talk:Jaellee|talk]]) 12:31, 19 June 2015 (UTC) |
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== [[2016–17 Bundesliga]] == |
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Hello. Is it really necessary to have an article for the [[2016–17 Bundesliga]] seeing that the 2015–16 season still has yet to start? It seems extremely premature. It should be created when there is enough information on the topic (like the clubs that will be participating), but until then, it seems rather foolish. Thoughts? [[User:Secret Agent Julio|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Secret Agent Julio">SAJ</span>]] [[User:Secret Agent Julio/T|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor: help;" title="Feel free to leave me a message.">(T)</span>]] 02:41, 20 June 2015 (UTC) |
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:Redirect to parent article Bundesliga, as is common practice with other future season articles with now reliable information as yet. [[User:Calistemon|Calistemon]] ([[User talk:Calistemon|talk]]) 04:21, 20 June 2015 (UTC) |
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== FC Sachsen Leipzig == |
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Hello |
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I know that at least a few of you have already noticed this, but the article on [[FC Sachsen Leipzig]] is currently quite a mess. The article covers the old BSG Chemie Leipzig, FC Sachsen Leipzig, the new BSG Chemie Leipzig and SG Sachsen Leipzig. Despite the name of the article, the infobox describes the new BSG Chemie Leipzig. I think the article needs to be split into two or three articles. I do not have time to engage in this article right now, I just want to mention the problem, if anyone would be interested. |
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Best regards |
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/[[User:EriFr|EriFr]] ([[User talk:EriFr|talk]]) 23:21, 4 January 2016 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|EriFr}} [[BSG Chemie Leipzig]] just won promotion to the Oberliga. It may soon be time to sort this mess out, I fear. A quick look at the German Wikipedia reveals that the article on the current clubs is [[BSG Chemie Leipzig (1997)]] to reflect that it is a new entity. Time permitting I will try to create a new article on this club. [[User:Calistemon|Calistemon]] ([[User talk:Calistemon|talk]]) 00:39, 19 June 2016 (UTC) |
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:::{{ping|Calistemon}} Oh, they did! Damn, I am so happy for them! I forgot to check the latest results. Thank you for the notification! I have followed Chemie this season. Things were looking promising for them until maybe the 21st match day. It was sad to see how they slowly lost the opportunity to win promotion (I think they really deserve it after all these years in the Sachsenliga), but there was still hope. And now this last match day. Chemie had to win and Einheit Kamenz had to either draw or loose... I never thought they would make it. This has been quite a season for Leipzig football: RB Leipzig won promotion to the Bundesliga, 1. FC Lokomotive Leipzig won promotion to the Regionalliga and BSG Chemie Leipzig won promotion to the Oberliga. Oh well. I am sorry for being of topic, back to the subject. The article named FC Sachsen Leipzig needs to be sorted out. Perhaps it should be splitted into three articles, I don't know, but either way, we can't do all at once. I am sure no one has the time for that. But as you point out, given the latest events, a very reasonable start would be to break out the new Chemie into a separate article. I will support you if you go on an do that. I think we could begin with a very simple article, including the most basic facts that you need to know, such as an infobox, a very brief history, squad details and information on the latest seasons. We could list the things that need to be done and distribute them. Kindest regards /[[User:EriFr|EriFr]] ([[User talk:EriFr|talk]]) 11:20, 19 June 2016 (UTC) |
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I revamped the whole mess into [[FC Sachsen Leipzig]], [[BSG Chemie Leipzig (disambiguation)]], [[BSG Chemie Leipzig (1950)]] and [[BSG Chemie Leipzig (1997)]]. I didn't actually really add anything, just separated it into the correct sections. The Sachsen on BSG '97 articles mention briefly the other (attempted?) successor clubs a bit, all of them explain the mergers and name changes and have headings at the top to clarify. The disambiguation page also has a very brief explanation to guide people as to which of the three they are actually after. Everyone happy? [[User:Abcmaxx|Abcmaxx]] ([[User talk:Abcmaxx|talk]]) 12:44, 19 June 2016 (UTC) |
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:Thanks Abcmaxx & EriFr, great work, it was well overdue to see this mess sorted out! And yes, it has been an amazing year for football in Leipzig this year to have three clubs promoted. Football is a funny thing, seeing the clubs in Stuttgart having such a bad year with three teams relegated while Leipzig made such arise. I wonder if their is a reliable source out there that has picked up on the football success for the city of Leipzig this year? [[User:Calistemon|Calistemon]] ([[User talk:Calistemon|talk]]) 13:01, 19 June 2016 (UTC) |
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::I will take a look at that! I am really happy for Leipzig. It is a city with a rich history in football. When RB Leipzig was founded, some people feared that it would be the end of traditional football culture in Leipzig, but today the situation for football in Leipzig is probably better than in a very long time. The old names has not only survived, but actually advanced. Leipzig now has both Bundesliga, and a very interesting variety of clubs. Other clubs that should be mentioned are [[FC Inter Leipzig]] and LVF Sachsen Lepzig. FC Inter Lepzig actually finished the NOFV-Oberliga Süd on second place this season. If it had not been for 1. FC Lokomotive Leipzig, the club would probably have played next season in the Regionalliga Nordost. LFV Sachsen Leipzig was founded in 2014 and has just finished its inaugural season in the 3. Kreisklasse. LFV Sachsen Leipzig claims the the legacy of FC Sachsen Leipzig (http://www.lfv-sachsen-leipzig.de/verein/geschichte/). That could well be discussed, but the club could probably be considered a successor to SG Sachsen Leipzig, and at least, the name "Sachsen Leipzig" is still kicking. Also LFV Sachsen Leipzig won promotion this season. Kindest /[[User:EriFr|EriFr]] ([[User talk:EriFr|talk]]) 14:59, 19 June 2016 (UTC) |
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:::There's a big section on successor clubs in [[FC Sachsen Leipzig]], LFV is mention and so is SG Sachsen, so feel free to add infor that section if you know anything. |
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:::As for the rest - I wouldn't class "[[Nein zu RB|Dead Bull Drinks FC]]" as a Leipziger club but having Lok and Chemie is certainly positive, 1st hopefully the derby will be played again soon and b) will show that those poor fans who've stuck by their team that it was worth it. Hopefully they will be both at least in he 3.liga soon and hopefully one de-saddle RB as the top club football-wise in the city and get some much needed support. I think it's fair to say that Chemie got promoted despite the several successor clubs because there is a lot of squabbling between them, and quite frankly, it's ridiculous having 3-4 clubs all claiming to be successors rather than establishing one strong one (one of them folded though I think).[[User:Abcmaxx|Abcmaxx]] ([[User talk:Abcmaxx|talk]]) 16:41, 19 June 2016 (UTC) |
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== Translation from German to English. Vorwärtsverteidigend? Schnelles umschaltspiel? == |
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Hello |
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I am writing a section about the youth academy of RB Leipzig, and I would like to describe the style of play teached at the academy. The style of play has been described in several interviews in German, but I can not find the right words to describe it in English. |
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* ''"Achim Beierlorzer verfolgt die gleiche Spielphilosophie wie wir: ballorientiert, '''vorwärtsverteidigend''', '''laufintensiv''' und aggressiv. Das hat uns beeindruckt."'' [http://leipzig.sportbuzzer.de/2-bundesliga/artikel/wollen-spieler-nicht-mit-geld-locken-rb-nachwuchschef-schrof-im-interview/3730/1] |
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* ''"Für alle unsere Mannschaften gibt es eine einheitliche Spiel- und Ausbildungsphilosophie, die auf die jeweilige Mannschaft altersgemäß angepasst und vermittelt wird. Aggressive, ballorientierte '''Vorwärtsverteidigung''' mit '''schnellem Umschaltspiel''' wird bei uns in allen Teams intensiv trainiert und gespielt."'' [http://leipzig.sportbuzzer.de/2-bundesliga/artikel/wollen-spieler-nicht-mit-geld-locken-rb-nachwuchschef-schrof-im-interview/3730/1] |
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* ''"Achim Beierlorzer lebt und lehrt die Philosophie, die unseren Fußball ausmacht“, sagt RB-Nachwuchskoordinator Frieder Schrof. Heißt: ballorientiertes Spiel, aggressives Gegenpressing, '''schnelles Umschaltspiel'''."'' [http://www.mz-web.de/rb-leipzig/achim-beierlorzer-bei-rb-leipzig-ein-musterschueler-als-platzhalter,27404014,29843848.html] |
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The terms for which I can not find the right words are: |
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* "Vorwärtsverteidigend" |
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* "Laufintensiv" (I can translate this perfectly well into Swedish, because we use basicly the same words, but that is not particularly helpful...) |
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* "Schnellem Umschaltspiel" |
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Do you have any suggestions? |
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Thank you in advance! |
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Best regards /[[User:EriFr|EriFr]] ([[User talk:EriFr|talk]]) 22:49, 17 January 2016 (UTC) |
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:Some tricky translations there! |
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* "Vorwärtsverteidigend" = Forward defending |
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* "Laufintensiv" = Run intensiv |
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* "Schnellem Umschaltspiel" Quick-shift game or Quick-shift play |
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:I used google translate and adjusted it to what seemed to make sense to me. You might want to run it by a native English speaker to have another look at the terms however. [[User:Calistemon|Calistemon]] ([[User talk:Calistemon|talk]]) 23:36, 17 January 2016 (UTC) |
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:: "Defending from the front" would be a good translation for "Vorwärtsverteidigend", I think. Even [http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/sport/fussball/meine-teams-muessen-in-jedem-spiel-ans-limit-gehen/story/23868413 Jürgen Klopp] struggled to translate Umschaltspiel! I would probably say "transition play" or "transition from defence to attack" (or vice versa). [[User:J Mo 101|J Mo 101]] ([[User talk:J Mo 101|talk]]) 20:14, 18 January 2016 (UTC) |
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:::I had to read a few articles on "Gegenpressing" in English newspapers to find words that could possibly be used, because I get the impression that some of these expressions describe something similar to Gegenpressing. |
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:::* "Laufintensiv" = "Run intensive". I made the same translation as you Calistemon, because that is what is basically means. "Run intensive" may sound a little bit odd, but at least it should not be possible to misunderstand. |
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:::* "Vorwärtsverteidigend" = "Forward defending", "Defending from the front". "Vorwärtsverteidigend" sounds quite opposite to "fall back and defend". |
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:::* "Schnellem Umschaltspiel" = "Quick-shift game", "Quick-shift play", "Transition play". I think I will describe this as a style of play with fast transitions. |
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:::I think I might have what I need, big thanks for helping me out! I will try to describe the style of play with these words, and I will quote the original describtions in German in the references. Kindest regards. /[[User:EriFr|EriFr]] ([[User talk:EriFr|talk]]) 20:31, 19 January 2016 (UTC) |
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::::This is what I think I will write: ''"The style of play teached at the youth academy is ball oriented, aggressive and run intensive, with forward defending and fast transitions"''. /[[User:EriFr|EriFr]] ([[User talk:EriFr|talk]]) 20:39, 19 January 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::Far from being any good at English spelling I do think it is "taught", not "teached". [[User:Calistemon|Calistemon]] ([[User talk:Calistemon|talk]]) 20:50, 19 January 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::Embarrassing. You are completely right. I actually wondered by that word always had a red underline... ;-) /[[User:EriFr|EriFr]] ([[User talk:EriFr|talk]]) 07:11, 20 January 2016 (UTC) |
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== [[2016–17 FC Bayern Munich season]] == |
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In the fixtures table on [[2016–17 FC Bayern Munich season]], {{u|Kingjeff}} insists on using the forced "English style" of just including the city name for nine of the Bundesliga clubs, which sounds very strange. This also seems to go against [[WP:KARLSRUHER]], which I thought was the general consensus for German club names. He claims there is a lack of space in these tables, which really does not seem to be the case, as there are already wider club names in the column. It seems odd to go against the common style which is used on numerous German football articles, so I was hoping to get additional input. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 01:21, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:You're analysis spot on here. Kingjeff is applying a British standard to a part of the world that does not follow it. Outside of prose, a German football club's name should not be piped to a single word unless lack of space is an issue. [[User:Sir Sputnik|Sir Sputnik]] ([[User talk:Sir Sputnik|talk]]) 01:59, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::{{u|Kingjeff}} seems to have reverted as he claims that the names have already been "established". If you read WP:KARLSRUHER, it states "obviously in '''article prose''', a shortened name can be used, once the proper name has been established, to make the text flow more easily". This does not refer to tables, but rather only written prose where repeating the full club name becomes awkward. Not everyone is going to read the prose before looking at the fixture tables, therefore the names should abide by WP:KARLSRUHER. It seems to be a flimsy excuse to force this British style upon the article. Kingjeff, before reverting against general consensus based on your opinion, why not discuss? Multiple editors disagree, so continuing to revert is unhelpful. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 05:07, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::I'm not applying a "British standard". If you further read WP:KARLSRUHER, it clearly states "Equally in tables where there is a lack of space, abbreviations can be used, but this is rare on Wikipedia." This is clearly a table that lacks space. WP:KARLSRUHER is only an essay and not policy or a guideline. [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 06:47, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::Once again, WP:KARLSRUHER represents a general consensus which is accepted by many and is used on numerous articles. Also, WP:KARLSRUHER mentions that the lack of space is "rare on Wikipedia". The table you are referring to does not seem extremely short on space. It already has the font size reduced, three columns with a reduced width, and has long names like Borussia Mönchengladbach in it. Even with the expanded club names, they all still were shorter than the width of the column on my monitor. These are just a few pixels of space we are talking about. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 07:00, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::What does rare mean? They are short on space. This is why I piped the full names out. [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 07:43, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::Obviously seems a bit vague, but as I mentioned, this table does not seem to be short on space, especially since the column already contains longer club names. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 07:59, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:The shortening of football clubs to a single word is very much British thing. It's origin is the fact that almost every football club in the British Isles is either an "FC" or an "AFC", which means leaving the extension in is kind of redundant. This reasoning does not apply to rest of the world, and can actually be counter productive when piping out, for example, the FC part of a club nicknamed "[[1. FC Köln|the FC]]". Add to that the space argument doesn't really hold up. When piping the shortest club names as opposed to the longest one (which shouldn't be piped either), no space is actually being saved here. [[User:Sir Sputnik|Sir Sputnik]] ([[User talk:Sir Sputnik|talk]]) 14:14, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::So, are you saying I should be inconsistent? Secret Agent Julio, It is short on space and will definitely affect the goalscoring and discipline section. Let me ask you again, what does rare mean? Does it mean it doesn't happen at all or does it mean something else? [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 17:38, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::How is he saying you should be inconsistent? You are the one not following the common style for German club names. And once again, as we both have mentioned, there does not seem to be a lack of space in this table. You chose to not pipe the longest name, Borussia Mönchengladbach, but only shorter ones. Sure, the term "rare" is a bit vague, but that's beside the point. The table clearly does not seem to lack space. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 18:11, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::Sir Sputnik is saying that Köln is the smallest there and doesn't make a difference. But Why stop there if the others are piped out? At this point, it would be inconsistent not to include Köln. Why would I pipe Borussia Mönchengladbach when they have nothing to do with WP:KARLSRUHER. I can't put it simply as "Borussia" because there are two Borussias in the Bundesliga. [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 18:51, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::That's not quite what I'm saying. I was using a Köln as an example because the nickname easily demonstrates the problem with excessive piping. For all of the clubs whose names are currently piped contrary to [[WP:KARLSRUHER]], the amount of text piped out is too small as to make a difference. If space were in fact so limited to not be able to handle the addition of 3 or 4 extra characters to a few lines, it would seriously call into question why we're using the format in the first place. This is precisely why cases where piping down to a single word would be appropriate are so rare (which means the exact same thing here as it does anywhere else in the English language). [[User:Sir Sputnik|Sir Sputnik]] ([[User talk:Sir Sputnik|talk]]) 19:33, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::Exactly. The "limited space" argument is a poor excuse to force this British naming style upon the German clubs. It sounds very strange, especially when you simplify the name of a club like 1. FC Köln to just "Köln". [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 19:55, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::Then you are in disagreement with WP:KARLSRUHER. It clearly says, when space is limited in a table then "British naming style" is okay. Sir Sputnik, it being "contrary" is dependent on how much space is a "lack of space". It's not just letters being piped out. It's also the space inbetween letters that is being piped out too. [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 04:09, 11 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::::Once again, the "lack of space" explanation simply does not hold up. As Sir Sputnik said, '''''if space were in fact so limited to not be able to handle the addition of 3 or 4 extra characters to a few lines, it would seriously call into question why we're using the format in the first place'''''. These are only a few pixels on a screen, it is not nearly as much as you make it out to be. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 05:31, 11 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::::Of course it does. You completely want to disregard the fact that it is even allowed at all. You keep treating the word "rare" like it means that it doesn't happen at all. [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 13:30, 11 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::::::As we both have mentioned, in this specific instance there does not seem to be a lack of space. "Borussia Mönchengladbach" already fits into the column, yet adding a few characters to these other club names is just too much? If we seriously could not add a few characters to a row in a table, why would we use it at all? [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 14:31, 11 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::::::This is a bad format for English Wikipedia. They can do this at German Wikipedia all they want. [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 16:12, 11 August 2016 (UTC) |
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{{unindent}} |
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Based on what? Your opinion? This is not a German language issue, but rather a German football naming format. The real "bad format" is forcing the British style upon the article. As SuperJew said, '''''don't you think it makes more sense that you comply with the majority than that the majority comply with you?''''' The majority of articles follow WP:KARLSRUHER, based on past discussions and a mutually understood consensus, but you think you know best? [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 17:01, 11 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Don't act like you have been free of opinion. Why would you use German grammer rules for English Wikipedia? I am in full compliance. You on the other hand seem to be blind of certain points within the opinion and wrong definition of words. You still haven't defined the word "rare" yet. [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 22:03, 11 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::My opinion is based on the fact that WP:KARLSRUHER is widely used and accepted across many German football articles. What I fail to understand is why you think that "the majority should comply with you". These are not grammar rules, but rather naming rules. And once again, there does not seem to be a lack of space in this table. I would like some additional input on this since you seem hell-bent on this issue, maybe {{u|Kante4}}, another frequent German football editor? [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 04:47, 12 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::You don't even realize why we are here. We're are disagreeing whether I am in compliance or not. [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 16:03, 12 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::Well, you clearly are not complying with the naming style used by the majority of German football articles. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 16:23, 12 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::{{ping|Secret Agent Julio}}, WP:KARLSRUHER allows for the "British standard" when tables have a "lack of space". You like to use the word "rare" when I bring up this point. I am going back to my question for you. What is the definition "rare"? Does it mean it doesn't happen at all or does it mean some else? [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 02:06, 13 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::This kind of thing is determined by discussion, and both Sir Sputnik and I believe there is no extreme lack of space which prevents the addition of 3 or 4 characters to the lines. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 06:06, 13 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::::If there is room enough to put Borussia Mönchengladbach in full, then there is no lack of space. [[User:Madcynic|Madcynic]] ([[User talk:Madcynic|talk]]) 08:59, 13 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::::This is where the disagreeement is. WP:KARLSRUHER also allows for people who insist on using the "British standard" to use the "British standard". [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 15:43, 13 August 2016 (UTC) |
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{{unindent}} |
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No, the point of WP:KARLSRUHER is to use the correct club names. You do not own the article or get to decide what naming style to use just because you "insist" on it. That is what the discussion is meant for, and three editors have agreed there is no lack of space. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 16:19, 13 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Madcynic}}, there isn't enough room to show Borussia Mönchengladbach in full. {{ping|Secret Agent Julio}}, where did I claim to own the article? Me correcting your interpretation of something is not owning the article. |
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::WP:KARLSRUHER allows for the "British standard" in the following situation: |
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:::In the prose after the full name has been established, |
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:::In tables when there is a lack of space, |
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:::editors that insist on using it. [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 19:10, 13 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::But Borussia Mönchengladbach is the widest and is already being displayed, so why can't a few characters be added to other lines? Three editors agree there is no lack of space. And saying that '''''you''''' insist on using the British style does not hold up. This discussion will decide, not one individual editor. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 02:32, 14 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::Borussia Mönchengladbach is also not on a single line. Neither is Borussia Dortmund for that matter. This proves I'm right about the limited space in the table. [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 02:52, 14 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::Obviously this is based on your monitor, but if Borussia Mönchengladbach and Borussia Dortmund can go onto another line, why can't another club? This does not prove you right, the three editors who say there is no lack of space proves you wrong. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 03:15, 14 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::::Are you approving of me using Dortmund and M'gladbach? [[User:Kingjeff|Kingjeff]] ([[User talk:Kingjeff|talk]]) 03:45, 14 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::::All I am saying is that if Borussia Dortmund can go onto another line, what is wrong with some other club doing that? It is really not saving space if other names are doing the same. [[User:Secret Agent Julio|Secret Agent Julio]] ([[User talk:Secret Agent Julio#top|talk]]) 16:10, 14 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Startrecht/lizenz: any difference? == |
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Do you know if there is any difference between a ''"lizenz"'' and a ''"startrecht"''/''"spielrecht"'' in the German football league system? It seems to me that German news websites often uses the term "lizenz" when talking about federal leagues (3. Liga and above, organized by the DFB or the DFL) and the term "startrecht" when talking about regional or state level leagues (Regionalliga and below, organized by regional or state associations). I wonder because I do not want to make any mistake in translation. Can they all be translated to "licence"? Thanks in advance! /[[User:EriFr|EriFr]] ([[User talk:EriFr|talk]]) 19:10, 15 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Technically, there is only a "lizenz" if there is also a "Lizenzierungsverfahren" (licensing process) for the league. This is only the case in the top 3 tiers. Below that, there is often only a nominal check whether the clubs fulfill the conditions forthe admission to the league, hence the Startrecht (starting right). |
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:There is also the term "Lizenzverein" which exclusively refers to the Bundesliga and 2nd Bundesliga sides. Here the term has nothing to do with licensing for a certain league, but with the license under which the German Football League (DFL) operate the top two tiers on behalf of the DFB. HTH [[User:Madcynic|Madcynic]] ([[User talk:Madcynic|talk]]) 12:21, 16 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::{{ping|Madcynic|}} Great! Thank you very much, interesting to know! /[[User:EriFr|EriFr]] ([[User talk:EriFr|talk]]) 15:36, 16 August 2016 (UTC) |
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==2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages== |
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[[File:Magic Wand Icon 229981 Color Flipped.svg|thumb]] |
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<big>'''''Greetings {{PAGENAME}} Members!'''''</big> |
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This is a '''one-time-only''' message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the '''[[meta:2016 Community Wishlist Survey|{{nowrap|2016 Community Wishlist Survey}}]]''' that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for: |
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* [[meta:2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/WikiProjects#Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report|Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report]] |
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Best regards, {{u|Stevietheman}} — <small>Delivered: 18:00, 7 December 2016 (UTC)</small> |
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== [[:Category:German footballers needing infoboxes]] == |
== [[:Category:German footballers needing infoboxes]] == |
Revision as of 16:58, 26 October 2023
This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Football/Germany task force and anything related to its purposes and tasks. |
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Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 |
Football: Germany Project‑class | ||||||||||
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I've just created and populated Category:German footballers needing infoboxes. There are around 130 articles on footballers (either German or have played in Germany) that currently lack an infobox. I was hoping to chip away at the category, if anyone would like to join in it would make the process faster! Only takes a couple minutes per infobox, quite a few of the articles are stubs on older players, so an infobox would be nice to add a bit more context about the person. Secret Agent Julio (talk) 05:47, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
Women in Red online editathon on sports
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Racist discrimination in China against German and other UEFA players
This is a serious development in China currently. Half the players must be Chinese youngsters over foreigners; this rule is only in China, right? It is discrimination against foreigners, right? They say it's good for the young players, but it's not fair against these poor foreign players because they cannot speak the language and they have difficult life adjusting to the cultural differences and so we must help them, yes?
Due to a disproportionately high number of foreigners playing football in China, and a lack of "youthful" Chinese players, new rules were established over the '17/'18 newyear to require an equal or greater number of Chinese youngsters to foreigners on the pitch during gameplay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.53.189.18 (talk) 18:44, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
Football rivalries in Germany
Inviting more participants to join in Talk:Football rivalries in Germany#Requested move 26 February 2018.
Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.
We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Prefixes: BSG, SC, 1. FC, etc.
I understand that 1. FC Union Berlin is often called only "Union Berlin" outside Germany, while you will probably never see only "Union Berlin" on German Wikipedia. Other examples are 1. FC Lokomotive Leipzig and BSG Chemie Leipzig, which is often called only "Lokomotive Leipzig" and "Chemie Leipzig". (That BFC Dynamo are often called "Dynamo Berlin", is another story...).
I know we should stick with the most common name per WP:COMMONNAME. But this is a very interesting topic and I think these prefixes are important in some cases. This is my view:
1. FC Union has its roots in East German football. And in East German football, these prefixes (BSG, SC and FC, etc.) will tell you a lot about the club . That is why I think it is important to write 1. FC Lokomotive Leipzig, BSG Chemie Leipzig etc. (In the case of 1. FC Lokomotive Lepzig, I strongly suggest that "1. FC" is used, also to separate the club from SC Lokomotive Leipzig). But I understand that these prefixes are not that interesting outside that context, or if you are not familiar with how German football (or continental European football) is organized (with regard to club organization).
I regularly see how authors (of magazines, sports articles, etc.) either fail to undestand, or deliberately simplifies, the history of some clubs, such as 1. FC Union Berlin and 1. FC Lokomotive Leipzig. It is often told that the "fotball club" changed name from this to that, like this "football club" was one single entity (allegedly, a pure football club) the whole time, when the "football club" was in fact a football department of one multi-sports club (BSG, or later SC), and then following a merger, a football department of another multi-sports club (TSC or SC), and only later (1965-1966), as part of a major national re-organization of football, separated from its sports club and re-organized into a pure football club (FC).
So, I think that by not using the prefixes, a lot of history is pushed aside and things are uncesessarily oversimplified. What is your view on this?
Kindest regards. /EriFr (talk) 19:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
List of Eintracht Frankfurt players
Would someone from this task for mind taking a look at List of Eintracht Frankfurt players? The formatting seems a bit unorthodox and as if someone merged two articles together, but didn't do any post merge cleanup. The TOC, in particular seems, a bit odd, not so much because of how it's formatted, but because it's located near the middle of the article. Perhaps this type of layout isn't so uncommon, but other similar articles like List of FC Schalke 04 players, List of Borussia Dortmund players and List of VfL Bochum players seem to follow a more traditional layout with the TOC at or near the top of the article below the lead section. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:46, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Marchjuly: - yeah, the structure of that article is pretty odd. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to put the international caps in the table, like with List of Birmingham City F.C. players. As a side note, List of VfL Bochum players is basically unreadable as the text is too small, and violates MOS:TEXTSIZE. Microwave Anarchist (talk) 20:13, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
Mario Gómez Peer Review
Hi, all! I have started a peer review for Mario Gómez and wanted to invite anyone interested to contribute. The peer review can be found here. Thanks! Perfect4th (talk) 23:56, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
Season pages of German teams
Hello everyone! I'm creating many season pages of German teams for Italian wikipedia: it:Template:Calcio in Germania 1999-2000, so I could make the same work for English wikipedia, too, since many season pages are missing here. Do you have specific guidelines? ChampagneSupernova3 (talk) 16:58, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
Wikitable in Christian Groß
Can anyone think of a way to eliminate the excessive white space at the beginning of Christian Groß#Career statistics? The table in that section is coming into conflict with the infobox. Perhaps there's a way to resize the table? -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:59, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Marchjuly: I forced the heading down. My best recommendation would be to add some prose. :-) Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 08:29, 24 May 2023 (UTC)