Jump to content

Talk:Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present): Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous editNext edit →
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit New topic
Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit New topic
Line 454: Line 454:


Almost every Hezbollah action is aimed at killing civilians, i.e by shelling Israeli population centers such as Kiryat Shmona. And the "War Crimes" section doesn't even mention that? What kind of terrorist supporting biased article is that? [[Special:Contributions/2A02:14F:1F9:1836:9487:A835:B528:1F16|2A02:14F:1F9:1836:9487:A835:B528:1F16]] ([[User talk:2A02:14F:1F9:1836:9487:A835:B528:1F16|talk]]) 08:12, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Almost every Hezbollah action is aimed at killing civilians, i.e by shelling Israeli population centers such as Kiryat Shmona. And the "War Crimes" section doesn't even mention that? What kind of terrorist supporting biased article is that? [[Special:Contributions/2A02:14F:1F9:1836:9487:A835:B528:1F16|2A02:14F:1F9:1836:9487:A835:B528:1F16]] ([[User talk:2A02:14F:1F9:1836:9487:A835:B528:1F16|talk]]) 08:12, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

== Why mentioning Iran in Belligerents and not USA? US troops & ships in Israel. ==

Why mentioning Iran in Belligerents and not USA? US troops & ships in Israel. [[Special:Contributions/202.47.36.141|202.47.36.141]] ([[User talk:202.47.36.141|talk]]) 14:09, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Revision as of 14:09, 10 January 2024

Is this really a necessary article in this point in time?

I believe this could be merged with October 2023 Gaza−Israel conflict as its own section rather than requiring its own page when very little has happened. RamHez (talk) 13:41, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I also believe it this should be merged. IamBrainGriffinFromFamilyGuy (talk) 17:01, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree Parham wiki (talk) 18:15, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
gotta disagree MissionGuyNoob (talk) 06:22, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It should be merged, yes. It's a minor fragment of a much broader event. Belayed. The situation has moved on. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:40, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
agreed but i think this article should be renamed to Israel–Hezbollah clashes or of the likes. This wasn't a single strike or simply a Hezbollah strike but multiple clashes for the past week. RamHez (talk) 02:56, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 8 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: MOVED to 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes per WP:NOTCURRENTTITLE. Discussion indicates no remaining support for current title or requested title, but instead general support for some other title. As "2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes" appears to be a common name in the media for this topic (pointed out in discussion) I am moving it to that title. (non-admin closure) Ultimograph5 (talk) 05:06, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

October 2023 Hezbollah strike → 2023 Shebaa Farms airstrike – The attack actually happened at this location, and in the future, "strike" may be mistaken for strike action Bremps... 18:57, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

True,I support this. 2023 Shebaa Farms airstrike sounds better and specific MissionGuyNoob (talk) 06:16, 9 October 2023 (UTC) Struck per WP:ARBECR and WP:ARBPIA4. — MaterialWorks 18:28, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Reasonable. Strikes from both sides, not just from Hezbollah. Prodrummer619 (talk) 06:43, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: Strikes have occurred in numerous places in Lebanon and Israel. Not just Shebaa. Also, there's currently an exchange of fire between Israel and Hezbollah so the article shouldn't just talk exclusively about the October 8 strike on Shebaa. I would suggest renaming it to October 2023 Hezbollah-Israel strikes/exchange or something like that. Prodrummer619 (talk) 12:58, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: It has turned into a violent exchange Prodrummer619 (talk) 14:07, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support alternative: Move to October 2023 Hezbollah strikes, making "strike" plural because the article encompasses all of the clashes between Hezbollah and Israel happening alongside the October 2023 Gaza−Israel conflict. AmericanBaath (talk) 21:46, 9 October 2023 (UTC) Struck per WP:ARBECR and WP:ARBPIA4. — MaterialWorks 18:28, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support: This proposal makes the most sense. Charles Essie (talk) 03:39, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move to 2023 Israel−Lebanon border clashes since this already covers a variety of events and multiple parties, i.e. it's not just 'strikes' and the border incursion was by the PIJ, not Hezbollah, etc. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:37, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Or 2023 Israel−Lebanon clashes, as mentioned below as a variant. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:03, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support alternative: and the fact that the PIJ are also involved makes me support the change, though i prefer "October 2023 south Lebanon clashes " Durranistan (talk) 11:59, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It didn't happen in north Lebanon, it was in southern Lebanon and the occupied Golan Heights. Not Israel. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:41, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
thanks for the correction, my mistake Durranistan (talk) 06:48, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support this variant. It could also be October 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes. Oppose 2023 Israel−Lebanon border clashes because it is not about the army of the Republic of Lebanon. Oppose all other variants, they're not simple strikes. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 14:34, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes or 2023 Israel−Lebanon border clashes. GWA88 (talk) 14:48, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose "Israel−Lebanon border clashes", the strike wasn't on the border between Israel and Lebanon, it was in the Sheba farms, between Lebanon and the occupied Golan Heights. It is a clear npov violation to claim the area is "Israel". --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:38, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Events have involved, and there has subsequently been an incursion and a series of strikes across the border proper, making it a far broader geography at this point that just the Sheba farms. However, it could potentially also just be 2023 Israel−Lebanon clashes, because yes, technically, there is disputed space. Iskandar323 (talk) 16:59, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It doenst matter if it has evolved, the first strike happened on border between Lebanon and occupied territory, not Israel. The title must accurately describe the event in a npov way.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 17:21, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - current title is appropriate. Hezbollah strikes are not limited to that specific place. It is also not a border conflict or crisis. Paul Vaurie (talk) 02:37, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - There have been multiple rocket attacks, artillery strikes, air strikes, as well as infiltration by gunmen and shootings on the border since last week. We are well past being able to call this a singular strike, regardless of whether the page renaming involves Shebaa or not. --Dynamo128 (talk) 08:58, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
October 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes or simply 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes would make the most sense given the circumstances, and would also be in line with how such topics are typically referred to on Wikipedia. --Dynamo128 (talk) 09:00, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Again, Palestinian Islamic Jihad has also become involved, so it's not just Hezbollah anything at this point, hence the alternative suggestions that are more widely encompassing. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:55, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes RamHez (talk) 14:22, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support immediate replacement of "Hezbollah strike" in current name. "Strike" in the singular is clearly outdated terminology, and Hezbollah is now one of three combatants against Israel on this front. Oppose any move to a title referencing the "Shebaa Farms" because clashes have taken place throughout nearly the entire length of the (de facto) Israel-Lebanon border. Also considering that nearly all the contents of this article also appear in 2023 Israel-Hamas war#Outside Israel and the Gaza Strip, consider potential merge? SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 13:53, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think with how this conflict has developed since this article was created, that 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes is now the most appropriate title. GWA88 (talk) 16:18, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Reliable sources such as Reuters continue are referring to these events as Israel-Lebanon border clashes, and Wikipedia should be using something similar. This is already extremely appropriate per WP:NCE, while the suggestions of using "Hezbollah–Israel" in the title are simply not. WP:NCE calls for "when, where, what" and Hezbollah is not a where, but a who. Matching like for like here would give you either Hezbollah-IDF or Lebanon-Israel border, but matching actors with territories is just a mess, apples and oranges, and not what is called for by WP:NCE. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:00, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes. Clashes have expanded and are continues. EkoGraf (talk) 18:14, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 October 2023

In the October 9th paragraph Israeli is incorrectly spelt as Israelí.

In the October 11th paragraph "of northern" is missing a gap between the two words. Professor Spud (talk) 21:40, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done partly by me, partly by user Prodrummer619. Politrukki (talk) 15:08, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 October 2023

Hezbollah kills IDF Soldier with ATGM Need to change from 3 to 4 https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-soldier-killed-in-hezbollah-anti-tank-cross-border-missile-attack/amp/ Kalaka2335 (talk) 16:13, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:20, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merger discussion

I propose merging this article into October 2023 Israel–Hezbollah Golan fire exchanges. Rather than have seperate articles on Hezbollah clashes with Israel during this wider war, it would make sense to have a single article with a name like 2023 Hezbollah-Israel clashes or 2023 Hezbollah-Israel conflict. Please discuss here. GWA88 (talk) 14:30, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Support"- I think the Hezbollah stuff should be moved here but what should be done about the Israeli Airstrikes on Syrian airports in that article. HuntersHistory (talk) 21:22, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support proposed merge of articles regarding the recent clashes in and around Lebanon and Syria. Oppose proposed Hezbollah-centric names due to the involvement of cells of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad operating out of Lebanon in the events described in this article, in addition to the involvement of the non-Hezbollah-affiliated Syrian Air Defense Force in responding to Israeli strike on apparent non-Hezbollah-affiliated targets in Syria (Aleppo and Damascus International Airports).
Alternatively suggest tentative name Spillover of the 2023 Israel-Hamas war, in the format of articles Spillover of the Syrian civil war and Spillover of the Tigray War, which largely cover incidents involving third parties to the main conflict similar to the events discussed here, which would be largely coterminous with the "Outside Israel and the Gaza strip" section of the primary article.
SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 21:50, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
“Support” @SaintPaulOfTarsus because that makes sense to me. HuntersHistory (talk) 22:14, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom Abo Yemen✉ 19:11, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
===Support===
This can be renamed as Spillover of the 2023 Israel-Hamas war as suggested by User:SaintPaulOfTarsus. 110.224.97.128 (talk) 04:12, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose because this article was created more earlier than that one that you're talking about and there's currently a proposed name change for the article; and also the article that you're talking about has less information about Hezbollah and Israel. PopularGames (talk) 22:56, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed there should be at most one article. This was around first, is much longer, and is the only one of the two actually about Hezbollah, so I redirected the other here. The brief material about Syria is now convered in 2023 Israel–Hamas war#Outside_the_conflict_zone – SJ + 20:11, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nicely done. Thank you for your assistance. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 02:16, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should the alleged involvement of Iraqi PMF and other "Axis of Resistance" militias be added to this page

According to the Institute for the Study of War, there are reports of a number of Iraqi PMU militias joining the Lebanese Hezbollah in Lebanon for a planned war against Israel. I don't know the veracity of such reports, but should the alleged involvement of Iraqi PMF elements be mentioned in this page? Or is it far too premature for that right now?

Source: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-update-october-14-2023 Randomuser335S (talk) 15:19, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

IDF death toll at 5

Can't edit the article. Yesterday IDF death toll rose from 4 to 5. Source: Times of Israel reporting on yesterday attack. 2A00:1FA0:110:30C4:178E:81F7:F236:B7CA (talk) 07:58, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Casualties/Losses

2 merkava4 tanks of IDF were destroyed with clashes with Hezbola 2A00:23EE:1CA0:3137:B9E4:5629:1DA2:F45B (talk) 20:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 October 2023

2 Merkava 4 tanks of the IDF were destroyed in clashes with Hezbola 2A00:23EE:1CA0:3137:B9E4:5629:1DA2:F45B (talk) 01:13, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: It's not clear exactly what you want changed, and you also need to provide a reliable source for your request. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:21, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 October 2023

Remove the Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq from the belligerent section of the infobox.

The referenced article from the ISW does not properly demonstrate that this group is a belligerent in this conflict beyond some sort of braggadociousness on social media. No single kinetic military activity has been ascribed to the Asa'ib or to any other Al-Hashd Al-Shaabi group. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 02:30, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Statement failed verification. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 15:42, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, @TechnoSquirrel69. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 17:34, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The commanders of the israeli forces in the front

This page appears to refer to every incident in the current military confrontation between israel and hezbollah, and not specifically to a single strike in a defined sector. Therefore, the way in which the 2 israeli officers that were killed are represented as the main commanders of the israeli forces in the front, is wrong and creates a misleading impression that the commanders of all israeli forces in the region were killed in one strike/incident (in fact, both of the israeli commanders weren't responsible on division sized forces). Which isn't true. Therefore, I think that the list of the israeli leaders in the front needs to be updated. טוראי פייל (talk) 02:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I assume the commanders should be Ori Gordin and above? Maybe Shai Klapper, the 91st Division commander, can also be included but I'm not sure the 91st Division is the only one responsible for the Lebanon front. Theipu (talk) 18:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add Al-Qassam Brigades to units involved section in infobox

There is now explicit confirmation of Hamas's Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades operating out of Southern Lebanon per ISW.[1] Please add them to the units involved section of the infobox.

SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 20:17, 19 October 2023 (UTC) SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 20:17, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. Also, see [[2]] Brendan ❯❯❯ Talk 05:00, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Iran Update, October 18, 2023". Institute for the Study of War. October 18, 2023.

Is this the socond front ?

For over a week this part of the border has seen some fighting can this be a second front ? 2600:6C50:1B00:32BE:E12E:E076:3863:5956 (talk) 23:35, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Displaced people

If we are willing to add the number of displaced people in Lebanon, we should add the number of displaced in Israel. By this article. Israel evacuated the city of Kiryat Shmona as well as 42 smaller communities 5 kms from the Lebanese border, at least 34,000 residents. Supported (without numbers) by this article, as well as the official government decision for evacuation (in Hebrew). Bhtzuc (talk) 17:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This seems like a reasonable request. I can’t understand why it hasn’t be done. While at it, number of displaced in Lebanon should be updated as well. Emmett87 (talk) 20:56, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 26 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Clear consensus that the proposed rename of 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes should not be carried out, as it is no longer October and the event is still ongoing. However, there isn't clear agreement about what to do with 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings, and another discussion to just move it could take place and has a better chance of gaining consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 01:12, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

– Differentiate between the April and October events. The April events include more than shellings, but also airstrikes. Suggest renaming for consistency. Longhornsg (talk) 21:56, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The shellings in April didn't involve any border clashies at all though ... Some shelling occurred, and then there were airstrikes on Tyre and Gaza, nowhere near the border. Border clashes would be a totally non-descript title for that. Better to just add April in front of that title to distinguish it from the shellings that have occurred in the October clashes. Job done. Iskandar323 (talk) 03:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If preferred by consensus and based upon the above comment, I would switch support from 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings → April 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes to 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings → April 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings. As for the proposed 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes → October 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes, I feel that the inclusion of "October" within the main title header is analogous to the "April" header and solidifies clarity. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 04:52, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I certainly think this would be preferable to reducing everything to "border clashes". As an alternative to 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes → October 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes, it might also be reasonable to now intensify this title to 2023 Israel-Lebanon border conflict, given the mounting damage and dead - I'm not sure if "border clashes" really adequately sums up the scale of engagements: it sounds more like protests and the odd potshot than it does the serious rocket and artillery exchanges that are ongoing - with facilities hit, many dead and flights redirected. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:21, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with your points on "border clashes", and I would drop "border" given that some subsequent activity has occurred quite far from the border. Propose 2023 Israel-Hezbollah clashes or the like. Longhornsg (talk) 06:34, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Since the 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings → April 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings only lasted for one day in April, it seems sufficient to simply add "April". On the other hand, since the current hostilities will last beyond October, I would amend support to either of the above-proposed alternatives: 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes → 2023 Israel-Lebanon border conflict or 2023 Israel-Hezbollah clashes or even 2023 Israel-Hezbollah conflict. Depending upon the progression of hostilities, further revisions using terms stronger than "conflict" or "clashes" may be ultimately applicable. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 08:13, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support moving 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings → April 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings per Roman Spinner above. VR talk 13:53, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

October is almost over, and this will probably be going on for a while — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.229.178.74 (talk) 07:15, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, the proposed title will be obsolete in a few hours. VR talk 13:51, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

casualties of Israel

must be updated. 85.104.67.100 (talk) 23:34, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why only hezbollah casualties are updated not Israel's? What about no. of tanks destroyed?

Why only hezbollah casualties are updated not Israel's? What about no. of tanks destroyed? If Israel not revealing it's numbers, why not add hezbollah alleged claim? While mentioning it's hezbollah claim. 202.47.36.141 (talk) 14:36, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rockets fired from Lebanon at north; IDF strikes terror cells, Hezbollah sites

IDF says it bombed terror group’s positions in southern Lebanon in response to attacks; Israel also said to hit Syrian military, pro-Iran militia targets in response to shelling. Source: The Times of Israel Accuratelibrarian (talk) 00:00, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Israeli casualities

Hezbollah Claims 120 israeli troops have been killed/wounded in the border strikes.

This should be updated. 80.220.74.143 (talk) 13:33, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Claims by Hezbollah (or really by anyone) are not reliable sources. Aydoh8 (talk) 04:39, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
well the leaders' statements must be taken into consideration whether they are true or not: on the Hamas-Israel war Wiki page the entry "1000 infiltrators killed in Israel" was added without providing any documentation, photographic proof or confirmation of this figure. We Wikipedians are not historians, which is why we must take into consideration all possibilities, even more so if they come from the leaders of countries or movements at war with each other. On the Russian-Ukrainian war page, completely random numbers and numbers of Russian losses are cited without any actual evidence, however our job is not to make sure if the number is accurate, that is the job of historians, if there is evidence that Hezbollah has mentioned that number, must be inserted Elia Tamburin (talk) 22:02, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
can you show source? Durranistan (talk) 04:53, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://english.almanar.com.lb/1958024&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiNpcGFi66CAxVZHzQIHc1oA-YQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3u0Eg_vHhE2rHrYnXxGM5F
Right here
for deaths at least 17 have been admitted by the IDF whereas Hezbollah claims it’s 30. 90 IDF injured respectively A.H.T Videomapping (talk) 00:12, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 November 2023

Danyd92 (talk) 19:20, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Another Israeli civilian has been killed, as well as an Israeli soldier who died of his wounds following an accident. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-civilian-killed-in-anti-tank-missile-attack-from-lebanon-amid-escalation/

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —Sirdog (talk) 05:24, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Military death incorrectly listed as civilian

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/civilian-killed-in-hezbollah-attack-on-kiryat-shmona-named-as-meir-mouyal-55/

Article says civilian was killed while working on behalf of the Israeli armed forces. Should be listed as death of a combantant. 161.216.164.22 (talk) 15:22, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-civilian-killed-in-anti-tank-missile-attack-from-lebanon-amid-escalation/
Hezbollah at the time of the attack stated they attacked an IDF position, however israel stated a civilian was killed and only clarified that he was a combatant four days later. This Wikipedia article still shows him as a civilian with no clarification 2605:B100:D4D:6C2F:0:5:B40A:2801 (talk) 18:11, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
just gonna ignore this injustice? Now we know who the real terrorists are 2605:B100:D21:68E5:0:F:D83F:A601 (talk) 02:57, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 November 2023

change israeli casualties per hezbollah from 120 to over 350 killed or injured.

in hassan nasrallah's speech, he stated that over 350 israelis have been killed or injured from the beginning of the conflict. AliDaniFarhat (talk) 14:48, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Claim still has to be verified. It’s not as if Hezbollah could count and see every cadaver they claim. Borgenland (talk) 14:49, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fatalities to update

https://new.thecradle.co/articles/hezbollah-escalates-attacks-on-israels-northern-front -Israel's Channel 12 reported: "8 IDF soldiers were killed today on the border with Lebanon." Elia Tamburin (talk) 17:02, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done.Mr.User200 (talk) 02:00, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

al-Fajr Forces of the Islamic Group in Lebanon are a belligerent

Please add the Islamic Group and its military wing, the al-Fajr Forces to the infobox as belligerents and units involved, respectively. I will demonstrate below why this change should be made. Editors might also consider including some of this information into the body of the article.

The al-Fajr Forces took responsibility for a volley of missiles which struck Kiryat Shemona on Sunday, October 29, 2023. [1]

The al-Fajr Forces claimed to have launched missiles against Israeli targets from southern Lebanon on October 18, 2023. [2]

Corroboration: [3] [4].

Thank you. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 00:00, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Martyr Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades of the PFLP are not a belligerent

Hello all, I have reviewed the source provided next to the  Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in the infobox and do not believe that this justifies its inclusion as a belligerent. While the group has declared a state of mobilization among its ranks in Lebanon, it has not claimed responsibility for any attacks on the border, nor have any attacks been ascribed to it. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 00:04, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Israeli death toll drops?

So not long ago there were 10 Israeli soldier deaths listed here. Now the number is 9. What's the matter? Don't we know the names of these fallen?

Most likely a error. I have checked any source or name of the 10th soldier.No mention of him.Mr.User200 (talk) 02:00, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Civilians death

7 Lebanese civilians have died not 16, 2 in chebaa, 1 journalist and 4 in the massacre israel done against 3 children 5.195.212.42 (talk) 04:13, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 November 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 18:34, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes → 2023 Israel–Lebanon border conflict- Should there be a discussion about changing the name from 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes to 2023 Israel–Lebanon border conflict because of the death toll and rise in violence. HuntersHistory (talk) 23:03, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggested this previously already, and it seems more apt now, yes. Iskandar323 (talk) 16:43, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have opened it up as a discussion to
see what more people think. HuntersHistory (talk) 16:27, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 November 2023

Israeli casualties reported by Hezbollah as of nov/22/23 is 354 according to an official statement by Hezbollah. 2600:1702:2DF0:12B0:C05F:6D92:EBEC:9057 (talk) 11:49, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Israeli civilians displaced not shown in infobox

While the infobox mentions the amount of Lebanese displaced, it doesn't mention the amount of Israelis that had been displaced.

The amount is already stated in the page itself, so it's weird that no one added it to the infobox.

Can anyone edit the infobox and add the number?

Side note, the amount that evacuated is much higher than 65,000 people. Back at the 26th of october, there were 60,000 evacuated from the north of Israel (In hebrew, first bold line in the body of the article), the number has risen since. Current numbers of total evacuees from both North and South are between 200,000 to 300,000, and the line of evacuation was upgraded from 2KM to 5KM from the border with Lebanon. I can't find specific number for evacuees from the north, so it's 60,000+ (outdated). Shisoy (talk) 23:24, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 December 2023

4th Israeli civilian killed at the border with Lebanon. Source: https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-civilian-killed-by-anti-tank-missile-in-north-as-hezbollah-attacks-continue/ Danyd92 (talk) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 17:15, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bombs

"According to the photos presented by the "Washington Post" and video clips coming from Lebanon, it can be seen that the IDF made use of these measures, mainly in open areas covered with tangled and thick vegetation. There are many such areas in the Upper Galilee, mainly in nature reserves, but in Lebanon these nature reserves cover military compounds established by Hezbollah and its Radwan force as forward bases from which the organization's fighters are supposed to launch operations against Israel."

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bykjwxbip

"Kirby also added that “it's important to remind that white phosphorus does have a legitimate military utility, in terms of illumination and cruising smoke to conceal movements. And obviously, anytime that we provide items like white phosphorus to another military, it is with a full expectation that it will be used in keeping with those legitimate purposes and in keeping with the law of armed conflict.” https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bykjwxbip 2.55.164.84 (talk) 08:14, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Shooting on civilians

"Hezbollah accepted responsibility for firing an anti-tank missile near Moshav Dovev, from which 15 civilians were injured, one critically and one seriously. Seven soldiers were slightly wounded by an IED hit near Menara. Hamas in Lebanon accepted responsibility for firing rockets at Kiryat Bialik and Acre." https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-11-12/ty-article/0000018b-c37e-dc2b-a3fb-e7fe784c0000

"Dozens of launches were recorded this morning (Thursday) in one volley from Lebanon towards many settlements in the Upper Galilee and above the Galilee, the farthest of which is Biriya. Alarms were also activated in the Miron area, in one of the most significant barrages in the north since the war began 48 days ago. Hezbollah claimed that 48 rockets were launched in that barrage."

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/sjai2yn4t

It was happened at the past:

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2007/iopt0807/2.htm 2.55.175.4 (talk) 08:29, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wounded Lebanese Army soldiers now at eight.

First on CNN: US rebukes Israel for more than 30 attacks on Lebanese military amid concerns of Gaza conflict widening
"US officials believe Israel’s attacks on the Lebanese military have resulted in at least eight injuries and one death since October 7."
An edit to the casualties section of the infobox to reflect as such would be appreciated. UncleBourbon (talk) 05:56, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Updated infobox "casualties3" section as requested. DigitalChutney (talk) 13:59, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Outdated Claims About Israeli Casualties and the Number of Operations

1-The Latest Claim that Hezbollah released about the number of Israelis killed is 354 killed/wounded. (The claim comes from Hezbollah's official Military Media, you can see a repost of the claim here: https://twitter.com/shigri_zayeem/status/1727780958441717936 . The infographic was also made by Hezbollah)

2- Hezbollah also claims that they did more than 509 Military Operations against the Israeli Defence Forces since October 8. (The claim comes also from Hezbollah's Official Military Media, you can see a repost of the claim here: https://twitter.com/AoR3138/status/1735684269731614776 ) InfiniteValrath (talk) 06:00, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kibutz

"09:52/אולם התרבות של קיבוץ בגליל נפגע מירי נ"ט תושבים מהגליל העליון מדווחים כי ירי נ"ט פגע באולם התרבות והמופעים של קיבוץ סאסא. עוד נמסר כי אין נפגעים באירוע." "09:52 The cultural hall of a Galilee kibbutz was hit by anti-tank fire Residents of the Upper Galilee report that anti-tank fire hit the cultural and performance hall of Kibbutz Sasa. It was also reported that there were no casualties in the incident."https://news.walla.co.il/blog/3629261 2.55.21.91 (talk) 08:30, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Far from neutral

Uses weasel words and point-of-view forks Moniquebonique (talk) 10:45, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Moniquebonique: Hello, could you point some of them out for me so I can change? Prodrummer619 (talk) 18:33, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bad casualty interpretation

the four civilian deaths are not the non combat deaths of idf. There were 8 soldiers killed in combat, 3 soldiers killed in accidents, and 4 civilians killed. Only three non combat IDF deaths. Total should be 11 soldiers, 4 civilians on Israel side as of 22 Dec 2023 2605:B100:D20:655B:0:5:34B0:2501 (talk) 17:42, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done. But another one died on 22 after your comment.Mr.User200 (talk) 02:41, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Timeline of clashes is very large- split?

The Events section of the article is about 85 kb, and it looks like a split into an article consisting of a timeline of the clashes shouldn't be ruled out as a possibility. I may do this in the near future, and consolidate the info on border clashes in this article, just notifying here too if that happens and why it would - presidentofyes, the super aussa man 16:57, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Probably need to prepare a summary before making said move. Borgenland (talk) 18:04, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Presidentofyes12: I agree. Its very silly having it and to keep expanding it at this point. Prodrummer619 (talk) 09:24, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A cherch

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/b1spbvuda 2.55.15.25 (talk) 12:13, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-5ca88108727ac81026.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:1915:D7B3:DF90:FF6F (talk) 18:49, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 26 December 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 06:43, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]


2023 Israel–Lebanon border conflict → 2023 Israel–Hezbollah conflict – At the onset of hostilities, the conflict was limited to the Israel-Lebanon border but since then, both Israel and Hezbollah deepened their strikes, stretching beyond the border area. Additionally, IDF is operating deep inside Syria, not just around the Golan Heights. With that in mind, I think it would suitable to find a new name for the article, I think 2023 Israel–Hezbollah conflict would be suitable. Other suggestions are also welcome. Ecrusized (talk) 12:33, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Whilst I do agree that the conflict has expanded from the Lebanese border, it is worth also acknowledging that the fighting is definitely not just between Israel and Hezbollah. Numerous other groups have also entered and have been actively fighting against Israel. Perhaps a more fitting name would be something along the lines of “2023 Northern Israel Conflict”, or “2023 Israel—Lebanon/Syria Conflict”. IiSmxyzXX (talk) 21:05, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think 2023 Israel–Hezbollah conflict is a fine name but we also got to think about the name based on other groups involved in the conflict so maybe something like Israel–Lebanon conflict (2023-Present), Northern Israel Conflict (2023-present), South Lebanon conflict (2023-Present), 2023-2024 Shebaa Farms conflict, 2023-2024 Levant Conflict, or something else, also since 2023 is almost over maybe it’s better to move it to 2023-2024 Israel–Hezbollah conflict, Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023-Present), or Israel–Lebanon conflict (2023-present) HuntersHistory (talk) 00:22, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - indeed though Hezbollah party is part of the Lebanese government, the Republic of Lebanon is not (yet) directly participating in fighting vs Israel. 2023 Israel–Lebanon border conflict is correct, but Israel-Hezbollah conflict is the most correct naming term and in line with sources like [3].GreyShark (dibra) 16:07, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. It isn't possible to tell the whole story in the title, but the proposed version is closer to the facts than the current version. The only other possibility I see is to note that the border is indeed the Israel–Lebanon border, so we could have something like "2003 conflict at the Israel–Lebanon border". Zerotalk 03:20, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Now that it’s 2024 maybe 2023-2024 Israel–Hezbollah conflict or Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023-Present) because the conflict is ongoing and 2023 is over. HuntersHistory (talk) 05:13, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeSupport: Since the current conflict isn't only taking place the Lebanon-Israel border. Or how about a more descriptive one like 2023 Israel–Hamas war spillover in Lebanon and Syria Prodrummer619 (talk) 10:32, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"2023 Israel–Hamas war spillover in Lebanon and Syria" would be preferable to Israel-Hezbollah conflict. VR talk 17:21, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: No longer limited to borders and limited strikes.--Sakiv (talk) 16:58, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As Israel starts to attack Hezbollah inside Lebanon, this couldn't be just a border conflict.
Wendylove (talk) 23:53, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

W:I brought this up farther down with the creation of the page Hamas in Lebanon and the escalating conflict with the creation of the Al-Aqsa Flood Vanguards, the Assassination of Saleh al Arouri, and Mark Regev saying "this was not an attack on the Lebanese state ... Whoever did this did a surgical strike against the Hamas leadership". I wonder if a page should be created called something like 2023-2024 Palestinian insurgency in South Lebanon or Hamas insurgency in South Lebanon and some of the stuff be merged there much like how the PLO in Lebanon page is connected to the Palestinian insurgency in South Lebanon and the 1982 Lebanon War and I like the decision of calling this article the 2023-2024 Hezbollah–Israel conflict. HuntersHistory (talk) 00:20, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Post-move discussion

Now that it has been moved to "2023 Israel-Hezbollah conflict", we should probably remove conflict that doesn't strictly relate to Hezbollah, such as Israeli airstrikes on Iranian and Syrian military targets. Will we also limit this article to 2023, and not include any 2024 events? VR talk 05:40, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shooting from a mosque

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/b1spbvuda 2.55.15.25 (talk) 13:28, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

biased wording not supported by source

"The IDF fired warning shots and used riot dispersal means at 18 people, including journalists and parliamentarians that crossed the border from Lebanon and walked 80 meters into Israeli territory.[42]" — as the cited article says, they walked into israeli-occupied disputed territory, not unambiguously israeli territory 130.180.88.101 (talk) 00:02, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should there maybe be a new page because of Hamas in Lebanon.

W With the creation of the page Hamas in Lebanon and the escalating conflict I wounder if a page should be created called something like 2023-2024 Palestinian insurgency in South Lebanon or Hamas insurgency in South Lebanon and some of the stuff be merged there much like how the PLO in Lebanon page is connected to the Palestinian insurgency in South Lebanon and the 1982 Lebanon War HuntersHistory (talk) 22:32, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 January 2024

In the latest hezbollah infographic on November 23, they claimed 354 israel soldiers wounded/killed on the border. 185.118.220.5 (talk) 10:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. RetroCosmos (talk) 17:30, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 January 2024 (2)

Per Hezbollah: 120 killed/wounded Should be 354 killed/wounded 185.118.220.5 (talk) 10:41, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Borgenland (talk) 17:34, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Correct the Hezbollah retaliation to Saleh Al Arouri's assasination.

Hezbollah confirmed launching 62 rockets towards an israeli air command center in mount meron.

Add that info and correct the mistakes made, also correct the fact that this is an initial response, as stated by Hezbollah.

The people who have rights to edit this article should 1rst and foremost look at Hezbollah's statements if they write about their operations, all info necessary will be found there. 80.220.74.143 (talk) 14:40, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add Amal movement units and leader

Add afwaj mokawama lobnaniya amal for the military units involved and the commander nabih berri since everyday includes a lot of rocket firing from them to israel Moudb (talk) 19:50, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2,000 Israeli casualties according to Hezbollah

I think this should be removed because the claim is exaggerated. Any party can assert any amount of unattributed claims against their opponents. Ecrusized (talk) 19:47, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with editor @Genabab:'s comments here [7]. NBC is considered an RS. And as long as the claim is properly attributed to Hezbollah for the reader to understand there is no reason to remove it. EkoGraf (talk) 20:07, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't doubt the reliability of NBC News..... I doubt that Hezbollah is a reliable source. Ecrusized (talk) 21:06, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As Genabab said himself, it is most likely not true. However, we still include claims of all belligerents in a conflict for the sake of NPOV balance, presenting all sides POV. Like we have included over in the main Israel-Hamas conflict article the mention of Israel's claim they killed 1,000 militants in those first days within Israel, or like we include both Ukraine's and Russia's claims of their enemies losses over at the Russia-Ukraine war article (all figures that are more than likely inflated for the sake of propaganda), EkoGraf (talk) 21:26, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree that its probably not true, but deciding that, is not Wikipedia's job. Really, as long as NBC (a rs) is saying "Hezbollah claimed this" that's reason enough to include it. But only if we do say 'claimed by' Hezbollah. since other groups like the IDF are denying it. Genabab (talk) 20:09, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"War crimes" section doesn't mention Hezbollah targeting Israeli civilians?

Almost every Hezbollah action is aimed at killing civilians, i.e by shelling Israeli population centers such as Kiryat Shmona. And the "War Crimes" section doesn't even mention that? What kind of terrorist supporting biased article is that? 2A02:14F:1F9:1836:9487:A835:B528:1F16 (talk) 08:12, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why mentioning Iran in Belligerents and not USA? US troops & ships in Israel.

Why mentioning Iran in Belligerents and not USA? US troops & ships in Israel. 202.47.36.141 (talk) 14:09, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Israel–Hezbollah_conflict_(2023–present)&oldid=1194738898"