Talk:Atlantis

Kodiak Island

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Can we add a mention under location hypothesis of Kodiak Island as discussed in the following book: https://archive.org/details/atlantis-and-its-fate-in-the-postdiluvian-world Reasons: 1) Similarities between the Kircher Map of Atlantis and Kodiak Island during the Younger Dryas, and that Kodiak at that time fits many of Plato's dimensions. 2) Similarities between the "Aeletean" kings of Ancient Egypt, thought to have come from a faraway land, and the modern word "Aleutian". Other historians also imply there was a colony from India and the Far East south of Egypt in antiquity near "Punt" where the Ancient Egyptians believed their gods, the same ones aligned with the Aeletean kings, came from. 3) Sonar imaging of an underwater site southeast of Chirikof Island might imply a sunken human face monument and ruins that would put the pyramids at Giza to shame. 4) Genetic evidence of the X2 haplogroup in the Bayahira Oasis region of Egypt suggests a link to Native North Americans, suggesting Beringia as a possible origin point for Atlantis. The Berbers of North Africa also share a relative with the Sami circa 7,000 BCE, who would have been in Northern Siberia at the time. 47.32.37.155 (talk) 14:37, 10 October 2023 (UTC) A self-published book isn't a reliable source. Schazjmd (talk) 14:39, 10 October 2023 (UTC) Disagree, the claim any book based on how it is published is not a reliable source is quite frankly ludicrous, and anyone making such a statement should not be moderating anything. The information in a book, and the arguments it makes, is what makes something a reliable source, not how it is published. Many self-publish to avoid censorship and editorial overreach. 47.32.37.155 (talk) 16:25, 20 March 2024 (UTC) No what makes it a reliable sources in meeting wp:rs, does it? Slatersteven (talk) 16:28, 20 March 2024 (UTC) "CHAPTER FIVE: ON UAP; € DETECTING TIME-DILATING PHENOMENA". ROFL. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:53, 10 October 2023 (UTC) And "CHAPTER SIX: ON TIME TRAVEL" shows a rather weak grasp of physics. Donald Albury 16:03, 10 October 2023 (UTC) It's a chapter on hypothetical ideas from physicists such as Amos Ori and Frank Tipler, and relates to block theory of time, aka, Julian Barbour and LQG via Rovelli and Smolin, and would only be considered a weak grasp if you assume the modern picture of physics is complete, which it most certainly is not, especially if you apply the concept of Platonic Solids to solid-state physics/crystallization theory and then to QG and remove linear time from the equation like the Wheeler-DeWitt equations did, as possible avenues as to how future generations might have insights into novel quantum geometries we currently do not. Nor is ridicule a part of the scientific method, and responses such as AndyTheGrump indicate to me such moderators should be banned for displaying a gross level of immaturity such as "ROFL" that contribute nothing positive to a discussion, and border on inhumanity and possibly even sociopathy. These statements also have no relation to the central argument which is that Kodiak Island should be added based on: 1) Genetic evidence of the X2 haplogroup showing a high percentage in a group in The Bahayara Desert Oasis region in Egypt equalled only by Native North Americans in terms of their X2 haplogroup ancestry. 2) Sonar imaging data which shows a geological formation resembling a giant human sized face, a trident and a circular debris field within the remains of what was once likely a caldera, which would have resembled the inner island exactly as Plato described and would have resulted in the entire area sinking several thousand feet below sea level and being inundated by ocean water after an eruption. This area is in the Aleutian Volcanic Arc, and has had some of the biggest earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanic eruptions in recorded history, exactly where we might expect to find Atlantis. 3) Linguistic similarities between ancient historians descriptions of the ancient kings of Egypt, such as aelete, aeletean, auritean and aulitean and those of Alutiiq and Aleutian words. Not to mention similarities with Aelean's description of the headdresses of Atlantean kings who he wrote wore a headdress of a ram fish and a marine ewe, artistic depictions which model those of the Alutiiq seal hunting hats, and their use of using fish skin to make clothing, which also mirror the artistic descriptions of the Sumerians Apkallu. 4) Kodiak Island also matches several of Plato's dimensions, including being 230 miles in length during The Younger Dryas, and Chirikof Island would have been a small mountain 5-6 miles from the shoreline, also as Plato described. Whether you personally agree with Kodiak Island being a candidate site is irrelevant, or as someone else stated, that how a book was published should have any bearing on the arguments it makes. What matters is the evidence clearly shows the seafloor near Kodiak is a site worth exploring and investigating in more detail, so additional sonar imaging, ROV footage and archaeological excavations can determine the truth, not someone's preconceptions. What should be added to the Wikipeia entry is that: ALASKA/ANCIENT BERINGIA One modern fringe theory has looked at Alaska in terms of Ancient Beringia as the source of the Ancient Egyptian stories that were reportedly told to Solon by a priest in Sais as stated by Plato. They are looking at a potential caldera site southeast of Chirikof Island where they believe sonar imaging shows the possible remains of a human face monument, trident and a circular debris field, as a possible location for Atlantis. They base their claim on a review of ancient historical sources other than Plato, and by tracing the genetic footprints of the X2 haplogroup. Their argument is that Plato wrote he was giving Greek names to replace the Ancient Egyptian originals, which has caused people to look in the wrong places, and direction, leading many to assume Atlantis was a myth. They also state that the Ancient Egyptians have a similar concept of Atlantis known as Aaru, or the Field of the Reeds, which they place in the east, where the sun rises, along with the Land of Punt. Ancient Egyptian stories such as Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor show what they believe is a potential connection between Punt and Plato's Atlantis. The idea of Atlantis originating to the east of Egypt they claim is based on other sources in antiquity, such as Pliny the Elder, who associated Atlantia with Aethiopia, and others such as Ephorus who wrote the Aethiopians originated from the Far East. Homer, who Schliemann used to locate Troy, placed Aethiopia to the east, and not to the south. They also utilize findings such as those by Frank C. Hibben, who discovered a mass grave site in the 1940s near Fairbanks, Alaska, showing what appeared to be the remains of thousands of animals killed in a massive prehistoric flooding event which he compared to the concentration camps of Nazi Germany, as well as the mass-extinction event that killed off many species in North America around the same time as Plato's date for the destruction of Atlantis. They describe other similarities such as the shape of Kodiak Island during the Younger Dryas matching the same shape as the island of Atlantis as depicted in the Kircher Map of Atlantis, showing inlets and mountain ranges at the same locations as they currently exist on Kodiak Island. Although the Kircher Map is considered fictional by mainstream academia, this theory points to Kircher's claim of having used Ancient Egyptian maps to create it. The NOAA was contacted in 2023 regarding the geological formations in the sonar imaging of this area, and Sam Candido, who was heading an expedition exploring the seafloor around the Aleutians, responded that they would possibly add this site to their list and look at it in the future depending on weather. However, they required a NDA to be signed to see the results for the "protection of cultural heritage sites." 47.32.37.155 (talk) 17:49, 20 March 2024 (UTC) I think we can leave out reviews, this is not a forum. Slatersteven (talk) 16:23, 10 October 2023 (UTC) Evaluating potential sources is a legitimate use of article talk pages, and using the ridiculous chapter titles to show why we aren't going to cite this nonsense saves a lot of unnecessary waffle. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:26, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Where us your evidence that its fiction then?

Plato never wrote a single piece of fiction and there is 0 evidence to support this claim. Its pure speculation, you should be clear about the controversy instead of starting with "its fiction". Even if you feel strongly, its wrong to do that. 72.48.43.29 (talk) 22:42, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Please see Talk:Atlantis/Archive 7#Rfc: Atlantis as Fiction, Allegory. Deor (talk) 00:28, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Or, we go by what RS say. Slatersteven (talk) 12:52, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Plato also didn't write factual history. He was a philosopher; his works contain many so-called "Platonian myths" that are meant to illustrate various philosophical arguments (e.g., Ring of Gyges), but are not to be understood as historiography in the sense of Herodotus. --bender235 (talk) 05:11, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

History isn't always taught accurately and that's just the way it is. 50.35.104.160 (talk) 09:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

I wrote so much more in my reply to you that was truncated. History is crafted by dishonest people, they censor, block, truncate and oppress without care of who they offend, so long as their narrative is the only one seen. 50.35.104.160 (talk) 09:37, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Maybe, but we go by what RS say, and if history is made up by dishonest people....why was Plato not dishonest, form was he not writing history? If he was not writing history then how do you know Atlantis was not fictional, as he was speaking philosophicaly? Slatersteven (talk) 10:48, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Need to see the story from an Egyptian point of view.

Plato through Critias and Dropides states the story comes from Solon from an Egyptian Saite source. This was the capital of Egypt in the 26th Dynasty, 664-525 BCE a Lybian dynasty descendent from Bakenranef (Greek Bocchoris). Solon lived c. 630 – c. 560 BCE, at exactly this period, and travelled for 10 years starting with Egypt during the reign of Amasis II or Ahmose II.

Looking at this from an Egyptian point of view, suggests that the Hieroglyphic hieratic could easily confuse a hundred with a thousand. Thus rather than 9,000 years earlier it would be 900 years earlier, a Late Bronze Age point of view, which more accurately fits the description of the times. 1460 was the date for the Battle of Megiddo, when Thutmose III defeated the Canaanites, who, as Hyksos, had earlier ruled Egypt.

The Egyptians did not know the Mediterranean was landlocked. It was called "the Great Green" and there was it was believed, a chain of islands (Cyptus, Crete, the Peloponesse, Southern Italy, Sicily and Sardinia, stretched between Asia and Africa. The discovery of another continent beyond the sea (A-thalassa) could have been the land of Atlas (Atlantis). From 1174, an invasion of the people of the islands trying to invade Egypt and Athens, could have been the origin of the Atlantis story John Dudley Croft (talk) 06:21, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Please read WP:NOTFORUM. AndyTheGrump (talk) 07:32, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

and wp:or. Slatersteven (talk) 12:22, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Atlantis has been found

Atlantis has been found, It Is the Sardinian Corsican geological block. You can find info on Google searching for the words Official Discovery of Atlantis 62.19.157.0 (talk) 08:19, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

It's not our job to search for anything. If you have a link to the source, please provide it here so we can assess it for reliability. HiLo48 (talk) 08:58, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Atlantis is always being found we need RS saying this is Atlantis. Slatersteven (talk) 12:29, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2024

2A00:23EE:2658:1563:9DFA:586D:C385:6425 (talk) 14:30, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Why is this page protected? Just curious. I feel it's wrong to state that it's not real when there's no proof either way.