Talk:Primer (film)

GA failed: Requires references

Spoilers

I hadn't thought that my plot description was really spoiling very much, since most reviews cover similar terretory. It's a fairly moot point though, I suppose. --Shane Lin 17:29, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Biblical names

What do you think about Abe and Aaron being named for the Biblical characters? Should we put in a link to them on the Primer characters' names?

To answer this year-old question, it's possible Carruth got the names from the Bible, as he told Christianity Today in 2004 that he read the Bible regularly (www.christianitytoday.com/movies/interviews/shanecarruth.html). The namings seemed to me more like a defiance of the recommendation given to novice screenwriters to choose names for main characters that start with different letters, to limit confusion. Whether Carruth was exposed to this doctrine in the film course he audited at SMU, who knows? As to the second question, nah. Jonathan F 03:18, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Another idea: the first two letters of the names are AA and AB, just like the "entry and exit points" in the diagram of the time travel drawn by Aaron. Coincidence? Moreover, at the end of the film Abe seems to have abandoned the idea of time-travel, while Aaron still seems obsessed with this idea. Like "Abe enters in A and exits in B", but Aaron keeps coming to A over and over. Too convoluted?

Unanswered questions

I believe there are many unanswered questions, such as:

- why does their handwriting suffer

  They both put their hand into the first version of it when they test the magnetic field with the paper dots. Could this cause it?

- is that the aaron that left trying to build a box in france at the end?

i dont think so. i had too pause the movie several times to grasp what was happening but i dont remember anything that had to do with building a box in france. - so overall, aaron has the upper hand?

I don't think these should go on the main page, and ruin the movie for people, but i can't find info anywhere else on the web, except for the timeline. This is a good a place as any to discuss these issues.

Apparently you fail to grasp the purpose of an encyclopedia. Spoiling movies is not our concern, nor is it an encyclopedia's duty to judge which information may displease its readers. If those questions have factual answers appropriate for an encyclopedia, then they should by all means be added. You don't see spoiler warnings in Britannica, do you?

You also don't see non-mainstream movies covered in enough detail to actually spoil them, so your point is misguided. Spoiler warnings help readers and encyclopedias are entirely there to help their readers.

Errors in the Overview

-Rachel is not Aaron's wife.

-Rachel is never killed in any timeline. Aaron intervened the first time so that he comes out looking like a hero. The second time Aaron and Abe work together to make sure that the ex-boyfriend goes to jail.

-Abe created the failsafe not Aaron. Aaron only found out about the failsafe when he saw 2 units rented by Abe on the storage unit manifest.

Yeah, I wrote the overview before I understood the film. It was repetitive anyway. Fixed. savidan^{(talk) (e@)} 07:00, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

-It's possible Rachel is killed in one version of the party, which serves as a motive for Granger (her father) to attempt to travel back in time, and also explains why Aaron(2) mentions something like "there's no telling how many time it took him to get it right," referring to Aaron's intervention at the party.

Dates

"events in the film take place in the week Sunday, September 21, 2003 and Friday, September 26, 2003"

-Where does the info come from? The only references to dates are the numberous mentions of March Madness games being played.

I agree. I haven't found a souce for the dates, and given the 'error' of the March Madness game that is supposedly made, I think that 1993 (North Carolina 77-71 Michigan - March Madness) could be more accurate. I'm not suggesting we change to 1993, but that we don't speculate without proof (reliable source) on the dates. agapetos_angel 09:40, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Any original research in this article?

Is all of the stuff in this article actually verifiable? Some of it seems like fan conjecture. I think any statements that are not clear from the movie itself should be supported by references to sources such as director's commentary. Anything not supportable in this manner belongs on a fan site, not Wikipedia. ike9898 15:28, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

For example, what is the source for this statement, "design a device which can alter the effect of gravity". I don't think the movie specifically supports this statement. I'll give anyone who wants to a while to respond to this type of thing, then I'm going to start cutting. ike9898 23:26, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Whilst I am somewhat lost in the following of the various timelines, it appeared to me that the device they created did affect the weight of the paperweight doll (or whatever it was). It is clearly stated in the film that the doll weighed 77 grams, although the readout for measuring the weight was in decagrams. The men are excited to see the weight read at various amounts below 7.7 decagrams, and the possibility of time travel occurs as an unexpected result of their experiments. Whilst they may not have set out to design a device that would alter the effect of gravity they clearly set out to create some type of device which had an attachment to measure the weight of the item inside. At least that's how I understood things (and I certainly welcome further explanation of this enjoyable film!) RevJohn 15:15, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

(ri) From the official site, ABOUT THE STORY: 'a device that reduces the apparent mass of any object placed inside it by blocking gravitational pull' [1] I think the statement should more closely reflect what the source states. 09:37, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

The director's commentary on the DVD says they are trying to produce a High-temperature superconductor, hence the floating paper bits. Dominic 03:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

it's not one or the other, it's both. they're trying to build a device that creates a partial negative gravity field (as established by the scene with the Weeble and the 7.7 decagrams going down to 6.6) by using high-temperature superconductivity (as established by the scene where abe and aaron are using a diagram in the garage to explain to robert what their project is). Streamless 13:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Typing Errors?

In the main article, under the heading "Timeline 8", there's a sentence that states "Abe (4) and Aaron (1) chase Mr. Granger (1) ."

Shouldn't it be Aaron (5) by this timeline instead of Aaron (1) ?

Siakap 06:12, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

In "Timeline 2" it says "Abe (0) exits from the first box (0) at 9:00 a.m. on Monday morning." Shouldn't it be Abe (1)?

Plesner 18:24, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Critical Error in the current version

I like this attempt at laying out the overall events in the film, but I have three concerns with the timeline presented, two minor and one major:

-Timeline 8. I agree with Siakap above, this seems like it should be Aaron(5) in Timeline 8, this seems an obvious Typo.

-Also in Timeline 8 we switch from Abe(3) to Abe(4) without Abe(3) ever entering a box. How is that possible? This also seems a typing error.

Now the big concern with this write-up: This movie is one that intentially confuses and has a cult following of people trying to explain the order of events. The order represented on this page seems fairly plausible; but it has a glaring error.

The write-up says that:

Sometime on Wednesday Aaron(1) discovers that Abe has rented two rooms at the storage facility, discovering the failsafe box(0) and guessing its purpose (for Abe to have a reset button should something go wrong). This discovery is narrated by Aaron(2) in a flashback during a phone call. Later that day Aaron(1) enters the failsafe box(0) taking both boxes(0) with him, creating timeline 4. This is the canonical version. Some fans believe that Aaron does not enter the failsafe until after Rachel gets shot.

So if that happened on Wednesday night, both box(0) boxes are GONE after Wednesday night. Timeline 6 as it is written can not happen, because it claims:

At 8:45 AM on Thursday morning Abe(3) and Aaron(4) start 15 minute timers on the first(0) and second(0) machines respectively and leave for the hotel.

These machines are not there to be started! Not if Aaron(1) took both boxes back through the failsafe on Wednesday night.

Again, the great thing about this film is how much fun it is trying to piece it together, but this interpretation of the order of events does not make sense because the boxes (box(0)) are gone after Wednesday night.

No. This is not an error, though I suppose it is some kind of paradox. Aaron may have taken both boxes back through the failsafe on Wednesday night in one timeline (which I guess we call Timeline 3). This creates duplicate boxes(1) on Sunday, at the beginning of Timeline 4. The first box(0) is where it is supposed to be on Sunday, at the beginning of Timeline 4, and the second box(0) is created by whichever copy of Aaron on Monday night in Timeline 4. These boxes(0) are never moved again. In the new timelines, no copy of Aaron removes them, even on Wednesday night.

Also remember that Aaron(2) drugged Aaron(0) after he went back, which gurantees that the first(0) and second(0) boxes won't be moved since it was Aaron(0) who created Aaron(1) who took back the boxes. With Aaron(0) drugged Aaron(1) would never exist to take back the boxes. Instead, Aaron(2) would take Aaron(0)'s place and Aaron(3), who has no need to take back the boxes, would take Aaron(1)'s place.

I'm going to look around on the films very large Message Board to see if there is a more consistent timeline, but I believe the one that is represented here is in error.

Knoma Tsujmai 2006.04.04

Explanation of inappropriate tone/persons tags

The Time Travel section was tagged because it is written in a pedantic and casual tone. Examples of the former:

To understand this film, one must understand how causality works in this "world".

Understanding this is a prerequisite to understanding the plot.

The storytelling is actually quite linear.

The beginning of the movie is simple enough up until the point where Abe creates the first box.

It was also tagged for being problematically written in the second (you) and first person (plural). Jonathan F 02:35, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that the section has serious problems even beyond that, particularly verifiability and original research. It really reads a lot more like a college paper than an encyclopedia entry. I moved it here so that it could be reviewed and perhaps salvaged, but I'm inclined to think it doesn't belong in the article in its current form. --Mr Wind-Up Bird ✈ 02:51, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I only wrote it because the timeline section is really ambiguous. I wanted a better explanation on how the so-called "duplicates" appeared. The section on "how the time machine works" and the diagram is perfect and resolves that problem so you can remove the Time Travel tag and article below. The only thing that's left to explain is how the narrater was "created" with the whole super loop thing. The timeline section is really relly bad for this. Anyhow good job to whomever wrote the How the time machine works section! My purpose here is done. -Anon July 10, 2006

Time Travel

Primer examines the concept of time travel and paradox differently then most stories of the genre. Most stories treat any changes that occur as a result of time travel to the past have an instant or near-instant effect on the future (e.g. Back to the Future). However, in this version of time travel, if a person changes something in the past, it does not instantly propagate to the future. Every cause is on a time delay. As an example, if a time traveler were to go back in time exactly one day and kill his past self, that event would not cause a paradox. The entire film dwells on the exploration of paradox Aaron coming out of the box early and the cell phone incident.

If a person were to go back one day and kill himself, it would take two days for this action to catch up to him. But because he is always two days ahead (one day going forward and one going back in time) in his own personal timeline from receiving this action, it will never catch up to him. So he will never die. For example, suppose a person were to go back to their proper place two days in the future. But, say a year from now, he goes back in time between 48 and 96 hours, he could visit his (double's) grave. In this "worldline", he's been dead for a year. Understanding this is a prerequisite to understanding the plot.

The storytelling is actually quite linear. It tells the story from the point of view of the original (or initial) Aaron and always from his point of view, but from after he's gone through the failsafe once. The narrator on the phone is the Aaron from just under 10 days behind. But leave that at that for now.

The beginning of the movie is simple enough up until the point where Abe creates the first box. From this point on, the Aaron that the viewer sees in the movie is Aaron after he's gone through the failsafe once. This is indicated by the fact that he is wearing the earpiece (recording all the day's events) even during the basketball scene just outside his garage. Another indicator is that there is an Aaron double tied up in the attic as can be seen during the "rats and birds" scene. The tied up Aaron is behind the original Aaron by about 10 days.

The complications begin when Abe comes back from the failsafe device. It seems that the further away the time traveler is from "when" he/she should be, the greater the adverse effects to the body. When coming up to Aaron on the bench, Abe collapses. This is where the audio from Aaron's earpiece can be heard. So the viewer knows this is Aaron's second time through the failsafe (once back through to record the day's events and this time to have a three second advantage). This is confirmed by the narrator soon after.

The scene where the narrator comes into the picture is the most difficult to explain. Normally, during a loop, there would only ever be one double. In this case however, there are two. The second one, man in the middle, being the narrator. Why would there normally be only one double? This goes back to the causality delay. If you go back a day and kill yourself, your double is now dead. If your double were alive at the end of the day (or not tied up), he'd go in the box. But since he's dead, he cannot. So the box starts emptying going backwards in time for 24 hours. Once the box is completely empty and no one is going back in time, all of a sudden, there is no longer anyone getting out of the box. If no one gets out of the box, there can be no killing. So this version of "you" that isn't killed would go through the day normally and then enter the box at the end of the day none the wiser. This would create a never ending alternating cycle every 48 hours of your own personal timeline. A full cycle is 96 hours. During the loop, if one is alive, the other is dead. This is reminiscent of quantum entanglement. If you observe the state of one "particle", the other particle will be in the opposite state.

In the story, since one Aaron is knocked out and the other is conscious, the conscious one is free to take his double's place and go back in the box as many times as he wishes creating a perfect loop. Aaron has every intention of going back through a second time (and live events for a third time) and should theoretically only meet up with one double. But something causes an anomaly in the loop.

The Granger event is what breaks this loop. It causes Aaron to use his failsafe device earlier than normal. This in turn causes him to be able to witness his earlier self knock out an even earlier version. In other words, he's able to come back before the original failsafe device had time to empty itself (caused by the knocking out of the double and making it that he can't enter the box). Now by trying and eventually knocking out the second double, this second double takes a different path than he would normally. The second double is the narrator. So this is what the narrator means that he enters the story. But at the same time, he leaves everyone's life. That's what the narrator means that it depends on your perspective. Although unclear, it could indicate that the narrator is speaking to the Aaron locked up in the attic. This is when the narrator entered and left Aaron in the attic's life.

After this, the story continues on from the same Aaron as the first half of the film, but he's now on his third time experiencing these events. Or in other words, it's his second time through the failsafe as mentioned by the narrator. This also confirms that earlier in the film, Aaron had been through once already. Now you can follow Abe and Aaron reverse engineering the party.

So the entire film is always from the point of view of the same original Aaron. And the narrator is from about just under 10 days behind in personal time. Assuming the failsafe was taken at 4 days after activation, they were living 36 hours days with the mini-loops, this makes 4 times 36 which gives 144 hours. That makes 6 days. Adding 4 days to travel back makes 10 days. So it'd be a little less than 10 days because the Granger event made him come back earlier. How much earlier is difficult to tell.

It is unclear exactly who the narrator was speaking to. It could have been his wife or daughter so that he can now tell them what happened as he should have done originally instead of walking away. That may be his debt. He owed it to them to tell them the truth. Or it could be that he's talking to his double that he locked up in the attic so that he may know what happened that day. The film does not make it clear who the call is meant for.

At the airport, Abe and Aaron are upset at each other for going behind each other's back. Abe now wants to keep the timeline clean, so Abe sends Aaron away. But Aaron has bigger plans. Template:Endspoiler

Rachel, The Granger Incident and its relevance to the story

I would like to see an ammendum, just a couple of lines or maybe a short paragraph, added just prior to the 'Timeline Order' section explaining the characters of Mr Granger, Rachel and the significance of the perceived minimal impact of the events at the party and Aaron's behaviour there - minimal because Rachel is a person who doesn't affect Aaron's social orbit in the broader sense and the thing Aaron's actually trying to change is his hero-worship of the eyes of the guests, a little thing - significance because of the eventual ramifications of changing these little details in his seemingly content life. Its from this event that EVERYTHING in the movie eventually rests on, Aaron takes a lot of effort and risks to try to achieve this little goal (and, hey, causes more of a struggle once Granger enters a box...).

I think I (and a viewer can only humbly ever say that they think they...!!) got the general gist of the multiple timelines and multiple characters - took me a couple of watchings and a lot of laying in bed at night, scratching my head, to get there. But the one element that got me baffled from the first watch was the introduction of these characters, Granger and his daughter, and its only now, after a bit more thought, that I see the absolute impact that these little 'pebbles in the pond' ultimately have on the whole tale. I believe that Caruth deliberately left the impact vague because the smaller the characters are on the eye of the viewer, the more a viewer realises in later viewings exactly how significant they really are - growing in a viewers perception like the fungus on the weeble (eep, that was quite insightful for me!). I'd just like to see the article reflect that. But there's no way in hell I'm writing anything without everyone's permission first. Diving in and editing an article on Ken Dodd is one thing but a casual glance on the 'net shows how very serious everyone takes this 'cheap little flick'...!!!

Thoughts? Thumbsucker-UK 08:30, 3 July 2006 (UTC+1)

Yes, I agree. I felt the same way about these two characters. They feel underdeveloped as characters. Once Abe and Aaron manipulate the stock market, Granger's money isn't needed. If Aaron needs to be a hero, why did Carruth choose the event of Aaron saving Abe's friend Rachel? In one case the character (Granger) becomes irrelevant and in the other the character's (Rachel's) relevance is never fully explained.

That said, while I believe the characterizations of Granger and Rachel are shallow, I support the notion that the significance of the characters presence is vital to moving the story ahead. To start, Rachel is the catalyst for Aaron's heroics. But the Granger incident is critical. Seeing Granger is when Abe and Aaron realize that there is a breach in their secret project and suspicion and mistrust starts to grow between the two best friends (refer to Shane Carruth's Director's Commentary on DVD) and when the viewer realizes (me at least) that if multiple Grangers are running around then maybe multiple Aarons and Abes are running around, too. This was the "ah-ha" moment for me when the pieces started to click together.

You're right, these ripples grow to be more important. But, I'm not sure they warrant an entry in the Wiki article. Great discussion topic, great movie forum string, but it's not factual enough IMHO. --Parenthetical Guy 15:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I see what you're saying by not being "factual" enough, but highlighting the bits about how Rachel represents a cause and Granger represents an effect would be helpful. While their participation doesn't really explain the machinations of the film any further, they do provide clear understanding as to why Aaron and Abe do what they do in a way that won't be necessarily clouded by the multiple-timeline explication. There are too many numbers thrown in, too many iterations to keep keep discrete.

I interpretted the whole "Granger Incident" differently:

Consider that Aaron reacts very strangely to seeing Granger. He is the one that calls attention to Granger's car and then makes a point of telling Abe about Granger's 2-3 day-old beard growth. Next, Aaron gets out of his car to confront Granger, while Abe lags behind. Granger gets out of his car and runs, rather than simply driving away. Note that Abe has not actually seen Granger at this point. When Abe catches up to Aaron and Granger behind the house, Granger is in a sudden coma and Aaron is inexplicably lying on the ground.

My interpretation is that something (unseen in the movie) goes very wrong in the future so Aaron decides to convince an earlier Abe that things have gone terribly wrong and need to be set right, before the really bad stuff happens. In this interpretation, Aaron makes several trips through time to achieve his goal.

In the "Granger Incident", Aaron A drugs Granger in the future, then brings him back in a comatose state, planting him behind the house. (This explains why there are multiple Grangers and why Granger (b) has 2-3 days of beard growth.) Aaron A also drives Granger's car and runs behind the house before Abe can get a good look at him. Then Aaron B simply plays along with the plan by getting Abe to follow him, but not too closely. Then, behind the house, before Abe arrives, one of the Aarons leaves (or hides), while the remaining one lays on the ground, pretending to have fallen. After this, Narrator Aaron makes a comment that Abe began to tally all of the timeline changes in his head. After this point, we see Abe help Aaron to set things right. (Mission accomplished - and without giving Abe any knowledge of the future!)

Is this overly complex? Yes, but what part of this movie isn't? Considering Aaron's recurrent time travelling, I expect that there are really any number of Aarons cycling through time by that point. This also serves to explain why Abe is so keen to keep Aaron from meddling any further and the Original pair from ever time travelling at all.

As for the motivation for interfering at the party, my understanding was that Rachel was Abe's girlfriend (as evidenced by her calling him Monday afternoon after they watch themselves enter the storage facility, as well as several scenes that show the two of them sitting together). This clearly gives Abe motivation for saving her. However, in the real timeline, it is Aaron that actually disarms the ex-boyfriend. Therefore, with the Original Aaron drugged, the pair must devise a plan that still prevents the shooting from occurring and changes as few events as possible. And given the opportunity, they improve on the plan by making sure that Aaron doesn't get killed this time around. Imagine what would happen if Future Aaron got shot because something didn't happen just right, and then Original Aaron started walking around again the next day! You see evidence of chance events changing the events of this film when Future Aaron talks to the guy about coming to the party while playing basketball. In the original timeline, Aaron makes his shot, because you can hear the other guy say "nice shot; you should play golf with us sometime" in Aaron's earpiece. But in the altered timeline, Aaron misses his shot, causing the guy to ridicule him until Aaron gets the conversation back on the original track.

But those are just my opinions/interpretations...

Bc2586 23:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Film does not take place in 2003

In the shot where Aaron sees the registration sheet at the storage company with Abe's name on it (i.e. the way Aaron learns about the failsafe), you can read one of the dates on the sheet as 2001. So if anything, the film takes place in 2001. However, on the DVD commentary, Shane Carruth says that his objective was to make the film "timeless" as much as possible (for example, by using old-fashioned cell phones rather than the latest models). It seems that the cell phones and laptops shown in the film date from the mid-1990s if not before. In any event, the movie was certainly filmed well before 2003 because in the cast/crew commentary they say how easy it was to bring their camera to the departure gate to shoot that scene at the end of film, since this was before the September 11 attacks. Therefore I have removed from the article the statement that the film takes place in 2003. The director does say that the opening scenes of the film are supposed to take place around Christmas time and the later scenes (including all the time travel) a few months after, in March. --Cinematical 13:55, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Operating the time machine

Here's one thing I don't understand. Suppose I plan to travel three hours back in time, from 10 AM to 7 AM. At 6:45 AM I set the timer to turn the box on at 7. Then I leave and return just before 10 AM. I enter the box at 10 AM and close the door behind me. Then I immediately start travelling backwards in time, so when my watch (inside the box) says 10:01, it would actually be 9:59. So why am I not interrupted at that moment, inside the box, by my double arriving at 9:59 to open the door and get in the box himself? --Cinematical 07:30, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah, but you're NOT 'immediately travelling backwards in time'! It's one of the bigger concepts to try to get anybody's head around but it's dealt with in the scene in the garage, discussing the A-in and the B-in theory of the boxes operation as explained by Abe. As you sit in the box, time and it's direction appear to continue as normal for the traveller (that is, in a forward direction), so you don't 'reverse' time in the box, crossing over (in your example) 9:59. It's only when you exit the box, leaving the field which its cycling through the A and B-ins, that you exit the cyclical loop, at the A-in. It's like jumping off a merry-go-round on the opposite side you got on - you're essentially hitting the same ground, just in a different place.

Christ, I hope I've got that right. I still think the actual physics is a 'red herring', however well researched. The main thing is the consequences, not the deed itself... --Thumbsucker-UK 02:50, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

in addition to the timelines, perhaps there should be a person-specific narrative

the timelines personally confuse me, even if they're internally consistent. what i think should be added to the article are five narratives, representing what the two "surviving" abes and three "surviving" aarons (including the narrator) experience throughout the film. each narrative should be from the perspective of the person. the easiest one should be abe(0), since the film is linear from abe(0)'s perspective. check the official film site for more details. if anyone wants to help me do this, let me know (i don't have much wikipedia editing time, though). Streamless 12:37, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

in the tradition of

"While most critics have embraced Primer as a rewarding conundrum in the tradition of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, 12 Monkeys and Donnie Darko, others have criticized it as a willfully pretentious exercise in obfuscation."

Can a movie be made "in the tradition of" a film that was released in the same year? I'm a little fuzzy on the usuage of this phrase. A little clarification would be appreciated. RichMac 11:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

15 minutes timer

Can someone please explain the 15-minutes timer thing?

When the box is turned on, that is the exit point when the doubles come out of the box. Abe mentioned that he didn't want to risk bumping into the doubles, so he uses the timer so he can be clear out of the area when the box is activated. Robomojo 08:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

How it works

Gave a decent explanation to go along with the diagram. BTW, also explained the timers. If we like it we can remove the tag. --Justanother 16:31, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I can't help but to beg this small indulgence. As capable mentally as I am, this movie still causes my brain to tie itself in rather uncomfortable knots. 61.69.210.25 15:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Another Abe?

Early on Aaron and Abe try the prototype box for the first time. The box cycles WAY up and burns something out. The pair then lift the box cover and the film cuts to Abe waking up on the floor to a phone call. In the call Aaron tells Abe that "it's 7 at night" and to come to the front door. As Abe is about to leave his room he pauses at the door to his room and says to himself "Hey Brad", as if rehearsing. He then leaves the room and says "Hey Brad" in response to something that Brad says.

Could this be an Abe from outside the story entering, somehow, via the anomalous prototype operation?

24.67.208.187 22:24, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Coppell?

What's the source of the info that the movie is set in Coppell? Is that actually mentioned in the film? I ask because most of the recognizable shots (the rooftop, the pizza sign, the fountain at night) are in Addison, and the U-Haul facility is in Dallas (a couple of blocks from my house), although I don't believe that either of those locations are explicitly referenced in the movie. I haven't seen Primer for a while, I remember there's one reference (on a VCR label?) to a town in Texas that doesn't actually exist, and I don't remember any references to Coppell. HMishkoff 16:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Good catch - I am fixing it now. --Justanother 16:48, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Overly long?

I disagree with the "overly long" tag on the plot summary. I could not make head or tail of the plot simply from seeing the film: the plot summary in this article, though long, explains much.

Also, I'd like to add a "Trivia" section dealing with the story of the Soviet space program and the pencil. Can anyone provide the exact quote and the name of the character who tells the story? Skaltavista 23:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the disagreement over "overly long." This is a complex movie; one or two paragraphs won't work. Cwp2112 07:49, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Just on a side note away from the movie for a second: it was totally reasonable that NASA spent all that money on a pen for zero-g...do you know how dangerous having pencil shavings, broken tips etc from pencils would be to such sensitive hardware?! that story always bugs me (as anti-us as i can sometimes be) its annoying to hear such undeserved credit being awarded. ok, now back to the movie. Trottsky 15:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)