Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2009 July 5

5 July 2009

Paola Di Maio

Paola Di Maio (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

Biography in relation to published work, projects and events systematically deleted (vandalized) by wikipedia editor since 1995. Suspected hate campaing, /ad since the biography and links to support the notoriety principles have been edited/added by various users and systematicaly deleted by the editors who obviously did not verify the supporting links, even when 'hold on' was placed on the page. Claim to notoriety met. Similar articles not deleted, nor questioned nor discussed, despite lesser links (see Nick Denton}, Patrick Barkham and many many living others whose profile is never deleted). All backlinks to related sources in other wikipedia pages also systematically wiped. Please restore and do not allow editors to delete this page, or please delete all the other pages that carry biographies of living people who are journalists/writers/researchers.

• Before I reply to this, please could an uninvolved admin confirm that the various G4 deletions here really were substantially identical to (i.e., near-carbon copies of) the original content from 2006?—S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 19:18, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  • They were not. The recent recreated versions were all similar to each other, consisting of one sentence about Ms. Di Maio, several requests not to redelete, and assorted references. Stifle (talk) 20:34, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
    • I should think we'll need some trouts, then.

      Procedural overturn as a bad G4, and list at AfD so the community can judge their merits per the correct procedure. Addendum: Before anyone challenges me on this, I should probably add that the references constitute a claim of notability so they invalidate the A7.—S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 20:46, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

      • I agree that the recent recreations weren't substantially identical - in fact they were substantially worse than the version that was deleted at AfD. They were composed pretty much of a little paragraph about how Wikipedia keeps deleting the article, one sentence about the subject, two links to blogs with vague mentions, and a copy-paste of some information from one of the blogs. Two of the three recent deletions have been valid A7 speedies, and the third one pretty much could have been. ~ mazca ^talk 20:51, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
        • To save further theoretical argument, I've made a temporary copy of the most recent deleted version (all three recent ones were essentially the same) - User:Mazca/Paola Di Maio. This was not a viable article in any way in the state it was deleted in. ~ mazca ^talk 20:58, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
• I suggest you work on a draft of the article in userspace and bring it here - none of the recent recreations have been in any way convincing of notability, but I'm open to being convinced otherwise. Creating an article with virtually no content beyond an angry statement about how it keeps getting deleted is not likely to solve the problem. ~ mazca ^talk 20:51, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
• Keep deleted; userfy for a draft if desired. Stifle (talk) 08:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
• Userify I think the intention of the latest group of articles was to add what was missing in the original: references. . there might or might not be a viable article combining the original version and the reverences. Sending the latest version to AfD would not help get an article, since it would almost certainly be deleted. Trying to write a new one might possibly do it, and to give a chance,it should be worked on in user space first. This will meet the intent of the request, which was to try to have an article if possible. DGG (talk) 17:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
• Keep deleted unanimous AFD and three re-creations later, 'nuff said. No objection to userfication, but it comes here before being recreated a 4th time, as we aren't buying a pig in a poke. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:06, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

• Comment—I'm really concerned that this could result in us endorsing a bad speedy. I think that if this is closed as "keep deleted", the closer should use those words, and specifically not use the word "endorse". In a perfect world, every single bad speedy that comes here would be overturned and sent straight to AfD, because I think it's an overriding consideration that CSD deletions need to be absolutely valid and unambiguous.

  I'd also invite the closer of this DRV to comment on the appropriateness of the speedy, please.—S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 22:32, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

• Endorse deletion: That was the clear consensus. Niteshift36 (talk) 06:17, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Bill Verna

Bill Verna (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

Substantial improvement was made during the course of the discussion and was ongoing at the time the discussion was closed. A courtesy notification, while not required, should have been made to the article creator (User:Faridzenger) and the relevant WikiProject (WP:PW). I question the motivation of three of the "delete" voters, as they had expressed displeasure at me for disagreeing with them in a previous deletion discussion and then all showed up to vote "delete" with no interest in weighing the merits of the additions to the article. While the discussion was ongoing, two of the "delete" voters removed sourced information that helped establish the subject's notability for reasons that, at ANI, were said by two administrators to be against Wikipedia policy. I was unable to restore this information without dancing around 3RR, but the article was deleted several hours later (while the ANI was still open). Due to the ongoing improvements up to the time of deletion and procedural irregularities during the discussion, I am asking that the article be restored or, at the very least, that a second, untainted AfD be opened. GaryColemanFan (talk) 18:04, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

• I'm somewhat inclined to agree with a relist on the numbers, but I find your other remarks very concerning and I wonder if we're looking at a conduct dispute rather than a content one. Please could you provide diffs to illustrate what you say?—S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 19:15, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

• To illustrate which points, specifically? GaryColemanFan (talk) 19:30, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

• I'd like to see the removal of sourced content and the disapproval at ANI, please. My concern is that DRV can help with a content dispute but if there are conduct issues, other places may be appropriate venues as well.—S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 19:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

• Thank you for the clarification. Because the article has been deleted, I do not have access to the diffs for removal of sourced content. The removal is mentioned directly, however, at ANI here by an uninvolved third party as "de facto vandalism". This was supported by two administrators: [1] and [2]. The second "delete" voter removed the content in response to the first one recruiting him to help get around 3RR here. My concern is not to seek action against the editor (in fact, the first editor to remove the content has since left Wikipedia because the ANI at which he reported me did not go in his favor [3]). I would much rather see the article restored than have punitive action taken against anyone, but I believe that these diffs at least help to indicate procedual irregularity. GaryColemanFan (talk) 20:09, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

• Yup, those diffs show an enormous amount of totally unnecessary drama, and I think they put your case that the AfD was tainted by disruptive editors beyond all reasonable doubt.

  Relist as a defective debate, and thank you to GaryColemanFan.—S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 20:21, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

• Keep deleted; I'm satisfied with the consensus at the AFD. Stifle (talk) 20:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
• Relist per S Marshall. If the comments made at the AfD were all that was happening, I'd call it a reasonable close, though verging towards no consensus. Given the fairly convincing evidence that there was some rather unsavoury behaviour going on at the same time, though, I think this needs to be restored and reviewed again at AfD to come to an untainted consensus on it. ~ mazca ^talk 20:40, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
• Endorse deletion the claim that new stuff was added doesn't wash, the later deletes had benefit of such stuff and specifically rebutted the asserted importance of them. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:15, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

• Comment - Please note that the final "delete" came after the content was removed. It is also important to remember that the removal of content potentially had a larger impact. Editors who may have been leaning toward keeping it if they saw the extra information may have been less willing to comment after the content was removed (ie. more on the fence). While I admit this is speculative, it is certainly possible. Relisting the AfD would help answer such questions. GaryColemanFan (talk) 06:15, 12 July 2009 (UTC)