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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Sportspeople. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:19, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Júlio César de Almeida

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MMA fighter who fails WP:NMMA. Into the Rift (talk) 05:10, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:NMMA with no top tier fights. Papaursa (talk) 04:45, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom Secret ^account 15:38, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:48, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Jair Gonçalves

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MMA fighter who fails to meet WP:NMMA since he has no top tier fights. Papaursa (talk) 19:44, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails both WP:NMMA and WP:GNG with no top tier fights or significant coverage.Mdtemp (talk) 17:33, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:49, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Andre Reinders

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MMA fighter with no top tier fights to meet WP:NMMA and fails WP:GNG since the only source is a link to his fight record at Sherdog. Papaursa (talk) 19:36, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Fails WP:NMMA and WP:GNG.Mdtemp (talk) 17:29, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:50, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Burch

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Retired MMA fighter with no top tier fights to meet WP:NMMA and who lacks the non-routine coverage needed to meet WP:GNG. Papaursa (talk) 19:29, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No top tier fights and no significant coverage.Mdtemp (talk) 17:27, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails NMMA and GNG.204.126.132.231 (talk) 18:51, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:24, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hiroyuki kano

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Fails WP:NSOCCER, has not played in a professional league. WWGB (talk) 12:13, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Berliner AK 07 is the fourth division of German football and is not fully professional per WP:FPL, but even then I cannot find him listed on their main roster: [[1]] (perhaps he is on the U23 team?). The article itself does not report him playing on another professional side. Cannot find sufficient significant coverage on him in English or Japanese to otherwise pass WP:GNG. Michitaro (talk) 02:23, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 12:48, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per nom. He has not played in a fully pro league or received significant coverage, meaning the article fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. Sir Sputnik (talk) 23:42, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per nom. He has not played in a fully pro league or received significant coverage, meaning the article fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. Fenix down (talk) 17:33, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – lack of significant coverage. C 679 23:40, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:30, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Alcott

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Nothing is verifiable - this person appears to be completely non-notable, and there is a possibility that this is a hoax, based on the previous version of this article and the subsequent AfD. --Bongwarrior (talk) 05:35, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. The first and only viewable "reference" doesn't even mention him. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:59, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy delete This looks like a hoax to me--St. John's University in New York, which is where the article links, doesn't even have a wrestling team (according to the school's website). There's a St. John's U in Minnesota (a division 3 program) but he's not on their wrestling roster either. Even if it's not a hoax, he clearly doesn't seem to meet any notability criteria. Papaursa (talk) 02:29, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete 1. Possible hoax, and 2. Even if not a hoax, I can't find anything at all about him. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:09, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I think the two AfDs refer to different poeple.Peter Rehse (talk) 16:01, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt it. Both versions were created by the same user, and the subjects of both articles are adoptees from Quezon City, Philippines, who later moved to Rochester, New York. Only the occupations are different: one is a rapper that no one has ever heard of, while the other is a wrestler that no one has ever heard of. --Bongwarrior (talk) 20:39, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's what happens when you can not see the original deleted version. If what you say is true than Speedy delete'.Peter Rehse (talk) 22:17, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) buff bills 7701 16:48, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mohizam Shah Dawood Shah

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Contested PROD. Concern was Article about a footballer who fails WP:GNG and who has not played in a fully pro league. PROD was contested by the articles creator on the grounds that he had played in a professional league. This is false. He has not played above the second tier of Malaysian football, which is not confirmed as fully pro at WP:FPL. Sir Sputnik (talk) 16:38, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following article for the same reason. Sir Sputnik (talk) 16:40, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete both - both fail WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 19:29, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi, I'm the creator of these two pages nominated for deletion. Thank you for all your hard work patrolling Wikipedia pages. I would like to propose not to delete these pages, as Arif Fazlie has played during Perak 2009 Malaysia Super League campaign, and Mohizam Shah are currently on the books of Malaysia Super League side Felda United (he signed on April 2013). I have modified their pages to reflect on these changes, with citations. Again thank you for your concern and consideration. Fringe fighter (talk) 00:47, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete both - Shah Dawood has never played in a fully professional league despite claims, Perak FA were in the Premier League when he was with them. Arif Fazlie is a technical WP:NFOOTY pass as he appears to have played a couple of games in an FPL, but I am not convinced there is sufficient for GNG here. Fenix down (talk) 10:04, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Hi Fenix, Mohizam Shah never played for Perak FA. Arif Fazlie does play for Perak FA during 2009 season. Mohizam however has played for Felda in Super League games this year after signing for them in April, mainly as substitutes.Fringe fighter (talk) 12:56, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Arif Fazlie but Delete Dawood Shah, because the former does pass WP:NFOOTY, if barely, and the latter because he hasn't played professionally. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 11:43, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Hi Narutolovehinata5, Mohizam Shah has played for Felda in Super League games this year. I believe since Felda is a Super League club and the matches are part of Super League fixtures, he has played professionally. I have put a citation here for proof: a match report of Felda against Terengganu FA (http://sports.digitalfive.com/malaysian-football/news-highlights/top-news/newsid/292153/kecederaan-effa-sentap-ceria-tganu) (it's in Malay, though). He played as a sub.Fringe fighter (talk) 12:56, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep both. The lead section of WP:N says (with original highlighting):
A topic is presumed to merit an article if it meets the general notability guideline below, and is not excluded under the What Wikipedia is not policy.
A topic is also presumed notable if it meets the criteria outlined in a subject-specific guideline listed in the box on the right.
Creator has produced sources to confirm both have played in the Malaysia Super League, which is listed at WP:FPL and thus sufficient to pass WP:NFOOTBALL, which is one of those listed in the aforesaid box on the right. The function of the subject-specific guideline is to provide a bright-line decision-making process, so that the article on a presumed-notable subject isn't deleted just because the article about that subject doesn't yet demonstrate general notability to the satisfaction of those of us here, myself included, who don't have ready access to relevant media in a language we couldn't read even if we had. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 14:15, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 00:21, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 02:11, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:20, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Hinton

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Retired minor league ballplayer who never played a game in the majors; no exceptional third-party sources out there that would pass GNG. Wizardman 16:16, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Non-notable minor league baseball player. Alex (talk) 05:59, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Non-notable. Sources are insufficient. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:36, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete not notable.--Yankees10 18:13, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – doesn't meet WP:BASEBALL/N criteria. —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:07, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete not notable....William 14:12, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:26, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Lehmann

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Successfully deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Daniel Lehmann on June 14, 2009. User:Johnny Spasm recreated it as a redirect on July 9, 2009. Nothing has happened since June 2009 that would render the "delete" decision moot. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:32, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nomination. Spanneraol (talk) 18:50, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Non-notable minor league baseball player. Alex (talk) 05:55, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not notable.--Yankees10 18:13, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not notable minor league player....William 12:53, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:22, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Jeudy Valdez

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PROD removed under the reasoning of "notable per WP:BASEBALL/N", but he doesn't fit that guideline at all. He fails all seven of those bullet points, and he lacks sufficient coverage per WP:GNG. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:12, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Same reason as nominator.--Yankees10 17:44, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. Spanneraol (talk) 18:51, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete Non-notable minor league baseball player. Alex (talk) 05:44, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The dominican league is not top level.. In any event the guideline also states that "the meeting of any of these criteria does not mean that an article must be kept" and that " it is best treated with common sense". These players still have to meet the GNG and this guy doesn't. Spanneraol (talk) 17:53, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

**I changed my vote to delete. Alex (talk) 14:19, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – per nominator. —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:08, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:GNG Secret ^account 18:02, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect To Chicago Cubs minor league players as he is now a member of the Cubs organization. Alex (talk) 14:26, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I saw last night that he had signed with the Cubs, but though this gives us a plausible redirect target, I don't think we should view this as a reason to redirect, when the notability issues remain. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:36, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 02:32, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Jackson Williams (baseball)

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Completely unreferenced article, poorly written, about a non notable individual. Previous afd led to a merge but he is no longer with the Giants. Spanneraol (talk) 22:49, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Aparently the article was moved since previous afds, which are here and here.Spanneraol (talk) 22:51, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep and clean up. Has played in the Dominican Professional Baseball League, the highest-level league in the Dominican Republic, therefore he passes WP:BASEBALL/N. Alex (talk) 12:32, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Dominican Professional Baseball League is a winter league for (mostly) low level minor leaguers, and should not be considered a top-level competition. If it does fit under BASEBALL/N, then I say delete per WP:IAR. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:17, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment As I have said and proven, the DPBL is not only for low-level minor leaguers, instead a large percentage, if not a majority, of its participants are players with major league experience, high-level minor league experience and top prospects. The same reasoning I have used to defend the articles of these players has been used by others to defend keeping pages of those who played in the Mexican League (and other relatively weak national leagues), which I would argue is a much less competitive league than the DPBL. I would highly suggest a discussion on changing the wording of WP:BASEBALL/N at the appropriate talk page, because I would likely vote delete if the stipulation I'm citing wasn't there. But as it is written now, I cannot with a clear conscience vote delete. Alex (talk) 05:51, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Same reason as Muboshgu.--Yankees10 17:46, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – per Muboshgu's argument. Winter leagues are almost never considered elite pro leagues – they wouldn't be playing in winter if they were. —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:06, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 02:32, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ron Kubesh

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Fails WP:NGRIDIRON. Can't find any trace of him playing pro ball. ...William 21:32, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. He apparently was in the NFL, but he never played in any regular season or post-season games, so he fails WP:NGRIDIRON. ChromaNebula (talk) 00:19, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Collegiate all-Americans generally create enough press to surpass WP:GNG even if they don't pass WP:GRIDIRON.--Paul McDonald (talk) 00:54, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment He was a collegiate all-american at a Division II school. Don't forget these are Kubesh's claims as reported in a newspaper article 35 years after the fact. Google news comes up with zero on kubesh's football playing when it supposedly took place....William 12:12, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - I see no reason to assume bad faith at this time. And in 1955, there were no divisions in the NCAA. Divisions started in 1956, one year after he played his last year. If you care, the program is now Divsion I FCS (but that should have no bearing on this discussion).--Paul McDonald (talk) 13:38, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

*New information appears to pass WP:NGRIDIRON having played professionally in the CFL.--Paul McDonald (talk) 19:06, 10 November 2013 (UTC) I stand corrected.--Paul McDonald (talk) 13:07, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

- - - The same article that claims he played for the Colts and was a little all-american also says he was drafted by the Colts in 1954. He wasn't. Check out 1954 NFL Draft or 1955 NFL Draft. We know from many sources that Kubesh never played in the NFL. I'd safely say based on all that it fails WP:RS. The subject of an article lying to a reporter about easily verifiable facts is hardly unknown. Ian Bannen claimed here[2] that he won an Academy Award for best supporting actor....William 18:12, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      - That's interesting and insightful! I don't think we should be using other Wikipedia articles for reference on another Wikipedia article when it comes to notability or even accuracy. I did check the NFL.com pages and did not find the individual in question for those seasons, but it appears that their records are incomplete. However, for the purposes of this AFD, I would be willing to concede that the subject never played professionally. That leaves us with the "Little all-American" award. Is it reliable or not? I will argue that if it is true then the subject passes WP:NCOLLATH (see below). If it is not true, then I see no reason to keep this article. The question then becomes: did the reference article author make a mistake on this issue, or is it accurate? I would ask that we extend this AFD for an additional relisting period (what, 7 days?) to find an alternate source to confirm (or possibly deny) the information. If a second independent source is not found for this award, then it should be deleted because the source has come in to question. However, I'm not ready at this point to say that if one part of the source is incorrect, then the whole source is incorrect. Also, I would change my completely if we can find evidence that the source in question is not a relable source. But I don't think that potentially one mistake crosses that threshhold. Thoughts?--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:06, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      - To be fair there is another issue: Does being named a "little all-American" pass the threshhold of notability. I maintain that it has in the past and does here. If the subject never was named to such an award or if consensus decides that if he did it doesn't matter, then the result would be to delete the article. I think that sums it up.--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:22, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete According to nfl.com/players he never played in the NFL and the source cited for him playing in the CFL is about fullback Don Kubesh from Winnipeg, not Ron Kubesh an American linebacker/guard. The article also says he was a small college all-American. Even then there was a difference between playing for Notre Dame and North Dakota. Papaursa (talk) 05:03, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:NCOLLATH and WP:NGRIDIRON. Being a "Little All-American" is not enough to show notability.204.126.132.231 (talk) 23:36, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Yes it is. It is a national award and meets WP:NCOLLATH, and this guideline has been widely accepted.--Paul McDonald (talk) 12:24, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So you're claiming that being a division 2 or division 3 or NAIA all-American is grounds for automatic notability? I think that's a stretch. Don't forget many of these teams have first, second, and third teams as well as "honorable mentions"--all of whom can claim to be "all American". Papaursa (talk) 05:09, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please see above: there were no divisions in 1955. The NAIA did exist but this program competed in the NCAA. Plus, it isn't "my claim" but WP:NCOLLATH.--Paul McDonald (talk) 12:56, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

But he wasn't an "All American", he was a "Little All American" which means the award was for people competing at what was then referred to as "small colleges", so there was a distinction even then. There were even small college ratings back then. Regardless of whether the NCAA had divisions or not, there was still a recognized difference between different levels. If you look at http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/2001football_finest.pdf which lists "all 2868 players (from 156 colleges) over 112 years who made at least one first team on the selections used by the NCAA" you'll not find Kubesh's name listed. Papaursa (talk) 14:38, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The guideline calls for any college athlete that has "won a national award..." and does not specify all-American, little all-American, or Heisman. As for the document you provided, please read it first. It does not contain all athletes that played over 112 years as you imply. The information itself states on page 4 "we have assembled a collection of some of the finest college football players" indicating that other quality players were excluded. On page 5 the document states, "Some wartime figures are missing." ~~(which covers the years of eligibility of the athlete in question)~~ and the next sentence states, "A handful of consensus all-Americans are excluded because nearly all their career figures came in one season." We clearly need to have better information to make an informed decision. Without better information, I still maintain that we should assume good faith unless there is some other policy being violated.--Paul McDonald (talk) 19:35, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I not only have looked at the document, I quoted from page 157 "All time All America roster". This document contains individual records, which is what your quote refers to, while my reference is specifically about All-Americans. According to the NCAA Kubesh wasn't named on any first team All America squad. If he wasn't an All-American then what national award did he win? If you admit it was as a small college All American player (akin to the current division 2) then you're claiming all division all-Americans are notable. You have no reliable sources to show whether. even for small colleges, he was anything other than honorable mention and I believe WP policy says the burden of proof is on those who claim notability. Papaursa (talk) 04:36, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Several points to respond: (1) Ignoring my comments doesn't make them false. Read page 4. Then read page 5. The document you provide admits that it is an incomplete source, ~~especially during "wartime" (presumably WWII or at least including it) which covers the entire college career of the dude in question.~~ It's incomplete, therefore we cannot definitively determine if he received a national award or not from the document you provide. (2) The article states the award was for "Little All-American" which would imply a national award for a player at a smaller school. WP:NCOLLATH merely states a "national award" and does not exclude a "Little All-American" award or provide any specifics. It does offer a list of examples but specifies that the list is not restrictive. It's not "me" that is claiming that "all division All-Americans" are notable, but WP:NCOLLATH. (3) There is no violation in policy that I can find to assume good faith in the sources we have. We believe that the source in question made one mistake but I don't think we need to dismiss the entire article. I would prefer to find more, as I stated above.--Paul McDonald (talk) 12:41, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't respond to your comment about WW2 players because it was irrelevant--or do you really believe that war lasted until the mid 1950s when Kubesh played? Papaursa (talk) 21:46, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Crap. Dislexia strikes again. I swapped 1945 and 1954. I struck the comments. But the document still admits that it is not all-inclusive.--Paul McDonald (talk) 21:56, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 21:52, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Conan Silveira

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MMA fighter with no top tier fights. Peter Rehse (talk) 20:06, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No top tier fights so he fails WP:NMMA. Papaursa (talk) 02:19, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I disagree with Papaursa because I think UFC Japan probably counts as top tier, but that's still not enough to meet WP:NMMA and he fails WP:GNG since the only source is a link to his fight record.Mdtemp (talk) 17:32, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 21:52, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Harry Moskowitz

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MMA artist with only two top tier fights both losses. Peter Rehse (talk) 20:03, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Non-notable MMA fighter. Article's only source is a link to his fight record so fails WP:GNG.Mdtemp (talk) 17:26, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Mdtemp has it right. Clearly fails GNG.204.126.132.231 (talk) 19:30, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 21:52, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Jonathan Wiezorek

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MMA fighter with only single top tier fight Peter Rehse (talk) 20:01, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete One top tier fight is not enough to meet WP:NMMA. Papaursa (talk) 02:01, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:NMMA.Mdtemp (talk) 17:23, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 21:52, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tyrone Roberts

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On notability grounds - MMA fighter with only one top tier fight. Peter Rehse (talk) 19:58, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Lacks the three top tier fights required to meet WP:NMMA. Papaursa (talk) 01:59, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Lacks the fights to meet WP:NMMA and the only coverage is a link to his fight record so he fails WP:GNG. 204.126.132.231 (talk) 23:35, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. v/r - T P 21:52, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wes Hodges

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Retired minor league ballplayer who never played a game in the majors; no multiple exceptional third-party sources out there that would pass GNG. Wizardman 20:02, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:WPBB/N, only minor league competitions. Alex^{discussion ★} 20:45, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete not notable. Spanneraol (talk) 18:51, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Was covered by the Chattanoogan, Times Free Press, Washington Times, Cleveland.com, Ohio.com, among others. Passes WP:GNG. Alex (talk) 05:45, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete He is no different than hundreds of other non-notable minor leaguers.--Yankees10 18:12, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – not a notable minor leaguer. Fails WP:BASEBALL/N. —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:03, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:NBASEBALL.204.126.132.231 (talk) 19:21, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - It appears that this person actually meets WP:GNG, and also WP:BASIC, per the sources provided above by User:Alexsautographs and those already present in the article. Northamerica1000^(talk) 09:11, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per my comment above. I've also added more sources to the article. Northamerica1000^(talk) 09:16, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Minor leaguers don't usually get this sort of coverage. He thus meets WP:GNG. Dream Focus 09:23, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and improve. The coverage Alex showed above is sufficient for WP:GNG. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:29, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 21:51, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

André Tete

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On notability grounds - no top tier fights or championships Peter Rehse (talk) 16:33, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment It appears he technically meets WP:NMMA since he fought for Rings Holland (which was top tier back then), although common sense says it's hard to say he's very notable with 2 lifetime wins in MMA. The article gives, and I could find, no good reliable sources supporting the claims of him being a notable boxer or kickboxer with many international titles and long winning streaks. This looks like a good candidate for WP:COMMONSENSE to override a technical meeting of a notability criteria since he seems to lack the coverage required to meet WP:GNG. Papaursa (talk) 02:25, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Delete I agree with Papaursa's comment about using common sense for someone who only won 2 fights. Other claims are completely unsupported.204.126.132.231 (talk) 23:30, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
strong keep via his kickboxing record.Tete is more known for being a kickboxer than a MMA fighter,ive personally seen many of tete's kickboxing matches on tv he fought top kickboxers such as Clyde van Dams and Errol Parris,play it safe on this one because of his kickboxing record. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ronkoeman44 (talk • contribs) 13:33, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Notability is not obtained by who he fought (that's WP:NOTINHERITED). The article has no independent sources so WP:GNG is not met. Do you have sources that show he meets WP:KICK? If so, please add them to the article. This isn't about "playing it safe", it's about meeting WP notability criteria. The burden of proof is on those who claim a topic is notable. Papaursa (talk) 04:59, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete unless evidence can be given showing he meets WP:KICK. Mdtemp (talk) 17:21, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 21:51, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Arman Gambaryan

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On notability grounds - no top their fights Peter Rehse (talk) 16:30, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:NMMA with no top tier fights. Papaursa (talk) 01:42, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No top tier fights and no significant coverage so he fails both WP:NMMA and WP:GNG.204.126.132.231 (talk) 23:33, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. v/r - T P 02:33, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mamed Khalidov

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On notability grounds - no top their fights Peter Rehse (talk) 16:28, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep He has three top tier fights all in World Victory Road. Into the Rift (talk) 19:20, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment My bad, you are right - I missed World Victory Road in the list. I would withdraw but if we let it run its course than it is protected.Peter Rehse (talk) 10:06, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep He meets WP:NMMA. I'm just making this an obvious decision. Papaursa (talk) 01:41, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment No offense to the nominator, but how are these users nominating these articles not noticing these 3 required top tier fights...its right there plain as day and i notice them in a matter of seconds within me briefly looking over said article.Kind of a waste of time to take the time to nominate it, to be honest it probably takes less time to thoroughly inspect the fight record versus the time it takes to nominate an article for deletion. Sepulwiki (talk) 12:45, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Its more like forgetting that the now defunct World Victory Road was top tier.Peter Rehse (talk) 18:53, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 21:51, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mikko Rupponen

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On notability grounds - no top their fights purely a local fighter. Peter Rehse (talk) 16:25, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:NMMA since he has no top tier fights. Most of the sources either are broken links or don't mention him so there's no support there for WP:GNG. Papaursa (talk) 01:39, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:NMMA. Into the Rift (talk) 23:44, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Will userfy on request v/r - T P 21:47, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Giorgia Simonato

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This article is about a women's footballer that hasn't represented the national team, which means it fails WP:NFOOTY. There are some members of the women's football task force who believe that representing their country at youth international level or appearing in the UEFA Women's Champions League also confer notability, but this individual has not done any of those. The most important, however, is that the subject hasn't received significant coverage in reliable sources, which means it fails WP:GNG. Mentoz86 (talk) 11:18, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 11:40, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - She has not played in a fully pro league or received significant coverage, meaning the article fails WP:NSPORT and WP:GNG. Sir Sputnik (talk) 23:29, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Userfy - Unless article can be expanded with references to meet WP:GNG, userfy it. WP:FPL is incomplete and currently only contains two active women's professional leagues out of numerous top-tier leagues throughout the world so is pretty much irrelevant with regard to articles about women's professional footballers.Hmlarson (talk) 19:42, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per Sputnik. FPL comment from @Hmlarson: is incorrect, this list and the consensus arising from it revolve around fully professional leagues being the required benchmark, not simply players or individual clubs being professional. Additionally whether it is incomplete or not, it reflects the current consensus. That consensus may change, but this is not the forum in which to do so. It is easy enough to resurrect stubs like this should consensus change. Fenix down (talk) 09:56, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, I'm afraid it's you who is incorrect. By you I mean the four or five editors who police these discussions by following about GiantSnowman parroting "fail NFOOTBALL, fail GNG". If this article fails GNG, which I think it might, it should be deleted on that basis. The disingenuous nonsense you guys have created at WP:FPL is totally irrelevant to female players, thankfully. Clavdia chauchat (talk) 16:41, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is absolutely nothing incorrect about my statement. See WP:FPL to verify. For a list of top-tier women's leagues around the globe, see the main league competitions column here: Women's association football around the world. Hmlarson (talk) 18:18, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - fails WP:NSPORTS having not appeared in a fully professional league or represented her country in a senior international match. No evidence available that she has been the subject of significant coverage in reliable sources - therefore fails WP:GNG. Hack (talk) 06:49, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – insufficient coverage to meet WP:GNG. C 679 10:43, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. SarahStierch (talk) 16:42, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Earnhardt–Gordon rivalry

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Unremarkable unsupported rivalry. Article fails to support premise that there was a rivalry between the two drivers. Article lacks references that support premise. reddogsix (talk) 04:53, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete There are no reliable sources discussing any special "rivalry" between these two drivers, other than the obvious fact that every NASCAR driver is a rival of every other NASCAR driver. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:48, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete NASCAR drivers are competitors so every driver rivals everyone else. The article compares their careers which is just a duplicate of their articles. There's nothing special to their rivalry. The sources aren't even specific to their rivalry. Royal broil 04:11, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Although I admit that they were rivals, my beliefs do not determine notability on Wikipedia. Every NASCAR driver has 42 other rivals every race. JG and Dale Sr. are also business partners, but that also would not add to the notability. Gordon-Earnhardt has just as much notability as a Jeff vs. Jeff "rivalry". Zappa O Mati 04:23, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Nothing notable about this rivalry. Top competitors in every sport have always been rivals. Nothing unusual happened to distinguish this rivalry from others.204.126.132.231 (talk) 19:34, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Secret ^account 18:10, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Erik Cordier

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Another non notable free agent minor leaguer. Article contains very little information, other than that he was involved in a marginal trade. Spanneraol (talk) 22:07, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Not notable.--Yankees10 16:48, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and expand. He was covered in detail here, here, here, here, here and here. Alex (talk) 12:27, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Most of that is routine coverage that numerous other minor league players get.--Yankees10 17:48, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – fails to meet WP:BASEBALL/N criteria. —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:02, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
~~Merge and Redirect~~ to Pittsburgh_Pirates_minor_league_players as suggested by WP:WPBB/N #7 --Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 00:32, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Doing that makes zero sense since he is no longer affiliated with the Pirates org.--Yankees10 00:39, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to Baseball-reference.com he played during the 2013 season with the Indianapolis Indians, the Pirate's AAA affiliate. Granted, a 27-yo minor leaguer might not get signed the next season, but I don't see there any indication he's gone from Indy. Did I miss something? --Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 00:55, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He became a free agent after the season according to this.--Yankees10 01:30, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Whelp, then indeed I did miss something. In which chase I change my suggestion to Delete. If he catches on to a team in 2014, the article can be re-created or sent to DRV or he can be added to the correct {organization} minor league players page.--Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 01:46, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. SarahStierch (talk) 16:38, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

David Bromberg (baseball)

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Not notable individual who apparently won some awards in the low minors but I can find no evidence that he meets our notability requirements. Was at one point nominated for deletion before as part of a bundled afd but cant find that right now. He was part of the infamous Johnny Spasm Fort Myers Miracle article creation process. Spanneraol (talk) 21:55, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Has played in the Venezuelan Professional Baseball League, the highest-level league in Venezuela, therefore he passes WP:BASEBALL/N. Alex (talk) 12:11, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Ah, one of the last surviving Spasm Miracle. (Aside from those who actually reached MLB, that is.) Not notable due to lack of sources. The Venezuelan Professional Baseball League does not (or should not) count as a top-level league, because it's not one. It's an off-season league typically populated by minor leaguers from the area. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:21, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Same reason as Muboshgu.--Yankees10 18:10, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – per Muboshgu. —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:00, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) DavidLeighEllis (talk) 00:22, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Santo Manzanillo

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Run of the mill minor leaguer with a career ERA of 5.64. Has some sources but nothing that suggests he's different or more notable than hundreds of other minor leaguers. Zero notability as far as I'm concerned. Yankees10 19:46, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Spanneraol (talk) 20:04, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Far from run of the mill. He was a highly regarded prospect whose career trajectory changed with an injury suffered in a car accident. There is significant coverage (as in beyond brief mentions) of him that I found before I removed PROD from MiLB.com, NBC Sports, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, and Hoy. There's also coverage in Diario Libre and ESPN Deportes. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:09, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Has played in the Dominican Professional Baseball League, the highest-level league in the Dominican Republic, therefore he passes WP:BASEBALL/N. Alex (talk) 12:56, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep enough sources there in my opinion to scrape WP:GNG.Blethering Scot 22:27, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:01, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Madars Razma

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Not sure about this. We do not have articles for many of the World Dart Federation world masters #1 players, and this guy is pretty good, but is only ranking in the 30s to 40s in the world masters. There is scattered enough coverage to build a small article, the question is whether we should. Gigs (talk) 18:43, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Juliancolton | ^Talk 03:58, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Has never made it even to the round of 32 in any world championship event (regardless of tour) and has career earnings of under 4000 euros. Not a notable professional.204.126.132.231 (talk) 20:51, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, SarahStierch (talk) 02:04, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep by reading WP:NSPORTS I can see the player is usually notable if he ever competed in highest professional tournaments. I suppose that being qualified even if not succeed to the round of 32 counts as competing. Also, he hold rank no. 1 professional darts player in Latvia of 2010 and 2012, and that also counts as notable. There is no arguments according to policy to delete the article. Alex^{discussion ★} 08:02, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. SarahStierch (talk) 16:38, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dylan Owen

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Non notable minor league ballplayer. Previous afd called for a merge, but this player is no longer in the Mets organization so merge is no longer possible. Unlikely at his age and skill level to make the majors and no evidence of article meeting GNG. Spanneraol (talk) 18:04, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Has played in the Venezuelan Professional Baseball League, the highest-level league in Venezuela, therefore he passes WP:BASEBALL/N. Alex (talk) 12:11, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the Venezuelan Professional Baseball League does not (or should not) count as a top-level league, because it's not one. Sources are lacking on this individual. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:20, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete same reason as Muboshgu.Yankees10 18:09, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. SarahStierch (talk) 16:41, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tuğrul Erat

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He has not played a professional senior game at club or international level. Article fails WP:NFOOTBALL. Also fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 09:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 13:16, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per nom. Seems like a case of WP:TOOSOON, no problem with recreating if he actually plays in FPL or graduates to full intl team. Fenix down (talk) 14:57, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per nom. He has not played in a fully pro league or received significant coverage, meaning the article fails WP:GNG. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:55, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – no evidence he meets the notability criteria as detailed above. C 679 10:41, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. SarahStierch (talk) 16:42, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nevin Ashley

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Non notable minor league ballplayer.. deprodded by article creator... no evidence of independent notability. Spanneraol (talk) 03:04, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete He's not notable. PROD shouldn't have been removed.--Yankees10 03:18, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No valid assertion of notability. I don't even know why this article was created, was he on a 40 man roster at one point? – Muboshgu (talk) 18:11, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Has played in the Dominican Professional Baseball League, the highest-level league in the Dominican Republic, therefore he passes WP:BASEBALL/N. Alex (talk) 12:07, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The LIDOM is a winter league for domestic minor leaguers and like the Venezuelan league players mentioned above, is not truly a "top-level national league" comparable to MLB or NPB. --Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 02:20, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 03:37, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Barrington Patterson

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MMA fighter with no top tier fights so fails WP:NMMA. No evidence that he meets the kickboxing criteria at WP:KICK since the IKF is not listed as a major organization.Mdtemp (talk) 18:58, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Taken from WP:KICK : A kickboxing athlete is presumed notable if they've fought for a world title of a major organization (K-1, WMC, ISKA, WAKO, etc. Barrington had fought for WAKO which is a major organisation for the world title within the tournament and was given Bronze in 1996 (W.A.K.O. European Championships 1996) I believe he meets the criteria with this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.189.158.217 (talk) 22:21, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Third place European does not make a fight for the world championship. He may be notable for other things but not his fight record.Peter Rehse (talk) 22:46, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Amateur kickboxer is not notable, he was bronze at amateur championship.Master Sun Tzu (talk) 14:40, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails as a MMArtist and as kickboxer. Master Sun Tzu (talk) 14:40, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails notability standards for both MMA and kickboxing (WP:NMMA and WP:KICK). Third place at European amateur championships does not show notability.204.126.132.231 (talk) 23:28, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 21:51, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Łukasz Jurkowski

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MMA fighter who fails WP:NMMA with no top tier fights. Also fails WP:GNG with no significant independent coverage.Mdtemp (talk) 18:35, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete retired MMA fighter with no significant coverage or top tier fights. Papaursa (talk) 19:15, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails both WP:NMMA and WP:GNG.204.126.132.231 (talk) 23:25, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 21:52, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Joachim Christensen

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MMA fighter who fails WP:NMMA with no top tier fights. Article lacks significant independent coverage to show he meets WP:GNG.Mdtemp (talk) 18:30, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No significant coverage and no top tier fights. Papaursa (talk) 19:14, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Clearly fails both WP:NMMA and WP:GNG.204.126.132.231 (talk) 23:24, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 21:53, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Walt Harris (fighter)

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Fails WP:NMMA with no top tier fights. Starting one college basketball game is also not enough to show notability.Mdtemp (talk) 18:24, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Article was clearly created WP:TOOSOON. He has no top tier fights so he fails WP:NMMA and assuming he will get them is WP:CRYSTALBALL. Papaursa (talk) 01:48, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Has no top tier fights so he fails WP:NMMA. Being ranked as the number 11 prospect is not the same as being ranked the number 11 fighter.204.126.132.231 (talk) 23:22, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 21:08, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Van Pope

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Retired minor league ballplayer who never played a game in the majors; no exceptional third-party sources out there that would pass GNG. Wizardman 23:07, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as non-notable. --Jprg1966 ^(talk) 04:15, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete No assertion of being a notable individual, as required per CSD A7. Simply being a professional baseball player is insufficient. – Muboshgu (talk) 13:22, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Completely unreferenced with questionable information about what he hopes to do... No evidence of any notability. Spanneraol (talk) 15:09, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Same reason as others.--Yankees10 17:27, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Not notable or referenced. —Bloom6132 (talk) 20:04, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but willing to be convinced otherwise. He was covered in some detail here, here, here and here, which is a feature story on him. Alex (talk) 11:48, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Some local coverage of a minor leaguer doesn't show notability.204.126.132.231 (talk) 23:20, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 21:54, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mario Rinaldi (fighter)

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Unsourced article about an MMA fighter with no top tier fights. Fails WP:NMMA and WP:GNG.Mdtemp (talk) 18:17, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete BLP with no sources about an MMA fighter with no top tier fights, so he fails both WP:GNG and WP:NMMA. Papaursa (talk) 19:12, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:NMMA. Into the Rift (talk) 23:36, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. SarahStierch (talk) 16:43, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Adam Reifer

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No claim to notability.. run of the mill minor leaguer. Spanneraol (talk) 02:13, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete not notable--Yankees10 18:12, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – fails WP:BASEBALL/N. —Bloom6132 (talk) 20:09, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Has played in the Dominican Professional Baseball League, the highest-level league in the Dominican Republic, therefore he passes WP:BASEBALL/N. Alex (talk) 14:06, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It is as Alex says. The baseball notability guidelines have been neutered, but as the Dominican Professional Baseball League has been cited as the top level baseball in the Dominican Republic and Adam Reifer has played in that league, criteria 2 has still been satisfied for WP:BASE/N, making this an instant keep per the guidelines. The claims against are null, it seems. Agent Vodello^{OK, Let's Party, Darling!} 04:24, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. The dominican has no "top-level" leagues. The guideline does not say "highest level in x country" it says "top-level" and that signifies a quality of play. Winter leagues can not be considered top level. Spanneraol (talk) 15:05, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think its time for a discussion at WP:Baseball with this. It would be kind of crappy if all these AFD's were kept and a later discussion was decided that those leagues are not "top-level".--Yankees10 17:35, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is considerable inconsistent rational being used here. Until now, "top level" was meant to refer to the top-level league in each country (for example, Henry Bonilla's AfD cited his participation in the Italian League as reason to keep), not whether it was of top level talent and competition among the world's leagues. Per previous interpretation of the rule, the Venezuelan and Dominican leagues in question are top level. Alex (talk) 06:11, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep—I think Spanneraol is reading more into "top-level" than can be reasonably read. If the person is playing at the highest professional level in their country, that counts as "top-level" to me. It doesn't say that the player must be playing to MLB standards, it says they have to be playing in a "top-level league", not "at a top-level of skill". Heck, I know a couple MLB players that would qualify for deletion under Spanneraol's criteria. ;) Livit⇑^Eh?/_What? 16:13, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 21:56, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Baga Agaev

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MMA fighter with no top tier fights. The main source is his club and none of the sources appear independent. A second place at a junior tournament does not show notability in judo. Fails WP:NMMA, WP:GNG, and WP:MANOTE. Mdtemp (talk) 18:11, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No top tier fights so he fails WP:NMMA. Papaursa (talk) 01:46, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:NMMA. Into the Rift (talk) 23:40, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 21:57, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Joel Wyatt

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MMA fighter who fails WP:NMMA with no top tier fights.Mdtemp (talk) 18:04, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails to meet WP:NMMA or WP:GNG. Having fought notable fighters does not show notability since WP:NOTINHERITED. Papaursa (talk) 01:36, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:NMMA and WP:GNG with only routine coverage.204.126.132.231 (talk) 23:17, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. SarahStierch (talk) 16:43, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Robbie Widlansky

AfDs for this article:

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Non notable minor league baseball player. Previous afd closed as merge but since he is no longer with any team that is no longer an option. Even if he should hook on with another organization, he is a fringe prospect at best with little chance to make the majors. Not enough sourcing for GNG. Spanneraol (talk) 00:07, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Not notable.--Yankees10 01:02, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep He has appeared in the Australian Baseball League, which means that he meets point 2 of WP:MLB/N. --Jprg1966 ^(talk) 04:13, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep As much as I hate it, his article needs to be kept according to the current wording of WP:BASEBALL/N. Alex (talk) 13:58, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 03:35, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Perez (fighter)

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Retired MMA fighter who had a total of 4 fights, none with a top tier organization. One kickboxing bout doesn't make him notable either. Fails WP:NMMA, WP:KICK, and WP:GNG.Mdtemp (talk) 18:00, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails as a MMArtist and as kickboxer. Master Sun Tzu (talk) 14:40, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Nothing to show he meets any notability criteria. Papaursa (talk) 01:34, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. KTC (talk) 19:56, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Daniels Kristapsons (Ernestovskis)

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Non notable? Edgars2007 ^{(talk/contribs)} 17:10, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. I found some listings for this person (shown as "ERNESTOVSKIS Daniels") on the Union Cycliste Internationale website using this search. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 02:24, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Only coverage is a list of results and no noteworthy performances to show notability. Ranking below 600 on the European tour is an example of non-notable performances.204.126.132.231 (talk) 20:49, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. KTC (talk) 20:22, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

José Flores (pitcher)

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Non notable minor league baseball player Spanneraol (talk) 16:24, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Not notable.--Yankees10 17:50, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Non-notable minor league baseball player.Alex (talk) Alex (talk) 13:57, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Not notable – Muboshgu (talk) 18:31, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 21:59, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alen Guć

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Recreation of an article previously deleted by PROD. Concern was Article about a footballer who fails WP:GNG and who has not played in a fully pro league. This remains valid. Sir Sputnik (talk) 16:09, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 18:30, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Per above. Malaysian Premier league is not FPL, nor are any of the others he has played in. Fenix down (talk) 14:55, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Alen Guc has played in Malaysian Premier league for Kedah FA. He has played 17 matches and scoring 14 goals before being released in the end of the season. User:TorresChelsea96 —Preceding undated comment added 05:34, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The MPL is not confirmed as fully pro (see WP:FPL), meaning that playin in it does not confer notability. Sir Sputnik (talk) 20:13, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. No evidence he meets GNG. Eldumpo (talk) 19:37, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - the article is about a footballer who hasn't played in a fully pro league or represented his country at senior level, which means it fails WP:NFOOTY. Also fails WP:GNG due to lack of coverage in reliable sources. Mentoz86 (talk) 15:18, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Feel free to renominate, if so desired. SarahStierch (talk) 07:17, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ben Habern

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Unsure what to do with this article, therefore I am seeking consensus here. Habern was a highly-recruited football player out of high school, and had a promising career at Oklahoma that was cut short by injuries. He retired before playing in the NFL. I wonder now, whether he is notable or not per WP:ATHLETE. (On a sidenote, that article's creator Habe35 is a single-purpose account, and might be in a conflict of interest.) bender235 (talk) 16:05, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep passes WP:GNG with widespread news coverage. For example, Dallas Morning News, "OU’s Ben Habern has what it takes to make wise NFL decision"; ESPN, "Jamell Fleming, Ben Habern to return"; and USA Today, "OU's Habern, Lewis on preseason watch lists" are just three quick examples.--Paul McDonald (talk) 12:36, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:NGRIDIRON and WP:NCOLLATH.204.126.132.231 (talk) 23:15, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete fails WP:GNG Secret ^account 15:10, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep while his college athletic career may be over, he did generate enough coverage to pass the GNG while he was playing and especially as a result of his career-ending injury:1, 2, 3. As notability is not temporary, the end of his career does not negate the coverage he generated during (or even at the end of) it. --Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:54, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Saying he's notable because of the coverage he got for his injury sounds like BLP1E to me.204.126.132.231 (talk) 20:02, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the comment is "he did generate enough coverage to pass the GNG while he was playing and especially as a result of his career-ending injury" so there's more than one event.--Paul McDonald (talk) 21:18, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. Thank you, Paul. --Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:20, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Chicago Cubs minor league players. v/r - T P 03:25, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Kyler Burke

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Minor league baseball free agent.. no claim to notability.. nothing special here. Spanneraol (talk) 01:33, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I see some sources but nothing that makes him notable.--Yankees10 02:24, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Chicago Cubs minor league players, as the article itself doesn't meet WP:WPBB/N as: "Minor league players, managers, coaches, executives, and umpires are not assumed to be inherently notable", but if we already have a list about these players, the article could stay as a redirect. Alex^{discussion ★} 16:19, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He's currently a minor league free agent so redirecting to the Cubs page is improper. And, frankly, I feel those minor league player pages should be primarily for top prospects and guys on or close to being on the 40 man roster, not run of the mill minor league lifers. Spanneraol (talk) 16:26, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I think a better time to do the 'purge' of minor league player Wikipedia articles would be mid-regular season or right before the start of the season, not right after the start of free agency declarations. It doesn't give players an adequate amount of time to sign with new teams and, therefore, it doesn't give us enough time to gauge whether the player articles should be redirected to team minor league pages or kept. Kyler Burke, a former first round draft pick who has become a successful pitcher at the minor league level, maintains a strong chance of being signed by a major league team before the start of the 2014 campaign.

In regards to the suggestion that team minor league pages should exist only for top prospects, I highly disagree, for multiple reasons. The name of the articles is "[Team]'s minor league players," not "[Team]'s top prospects." The titles are all-inclusive, therefore the pages should be all-inclusive. In addition, the definition of "top prospect" and "near major leaguer" is very fluid and differs from person to person. Lastly, many - if not most - major league players were never top prospects and often weren't considered 40-man possibilities until they were actually promoted. Not allowing non-top prospect players to be included will inevitably lead to many future major leaguers' articles being deleted prematurely. Alex (talk) 13:52, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You cant include every player in the entire system.. you need to have a cut off somewhere. Spanneraol (talk) 14:54, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That "cut-off" is too arbitrary. I don't suggest a profile be written for every player in every minor league system, but every minor leaguer - that is in a major league organization, of course - with an article should be merge-able with the team's minor league players page, if his article is not strong enough to exist on its own. Alex (talk) 15:20, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, no claim to notability and fails GNG. Wizardman 16:32, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 03:08, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alex Bellini

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Promotional biography of a questionably notable person. The main claim to fame here is that Bellini is the first person ever to have crossed both the Atlantic and the Pacific solo by rowboat, but as discussed at Talk:Alex Bellini, the evidence indicates that his Pacific crossing attempt failed, belying his main claim to fame. Other claims of notability are that he has competed in some marathons (but not necessarily excelled at them), which doesn't really meet the mark of WP:ATHLETE. Article appears to be a WP:COATRACK on which to hang an ad for his consulting company. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 16:53, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The claim of being the first to cross both oceans has been removed from the article (by the article's original author), based on its disputed status. This does not change the basis of this AFD nomination. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 17:25, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Several of the sources cited don't appear to support the statements made. This [3] ref for the New York City Marathon is labelled 'Official Results', but simply leads to the front page for this year's marathon. This result [4] states that he came 5th, not third (and the name of the event isn't the same as given in the article). The Marathon des Sables website [5] appears not to show past results or entrants (or if it does, they aren't publicly accessible). Unless proper third-party sourcing can be found, these claims will have to be removed - as will material sourced to Bellini's own website. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:11, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Simply competing, even in extreme events, is not enough to demonstrate notability. This individual has, as best as I can tell, won no events, set no records, nor been the first to complete any significant achievements. The one piece of significant independent coverage is the NBC article about, basically, not successfully rowing across the Pacific; that seems like the sort of "human interest" story that doesn't strongly indicate notability absent other factors. Lastly, at the risk of failing to assume good faith, some of the article's claims seem ... well, rather harder to verify than they should be. AndyTheGrump already noted that the article previously had the wrong finishing position in the Alaska UltraSport 1000 mile event. I'm not able to get the NYC Marathon's official site to cooperate with me for results, but its records are mirrored by several third-party marathon trackers, and I cannot find their name in any of them as a 2000 finisher (even with a stated time that would only put him in the top 7000 male competitors). I agree with the nominator's assertion that this is fundamentally serving as a promotional piece. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 20:45, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Per Squeamish Ossifrage above, there seems not to be the in-depth coverage from third-party reliable sources to indicate that Bellini meets the criteria necessary to establish notability in Wikipedia's terms. While competing in extreme endurance sports is to be admired, it isn't in itself something that meets Wikipedia:Notability (sports) guidelines, and (again per Squeamish Ossifrage), the coverage of the aborted Pacific attempt isn't sufficient to pass more general notability criteria. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:49, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 03:15, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Omar Poveda

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Minor league baseball free agent.. unlikely to ever make the majors.. no claim to notability Spanneraol (talk) 22:30, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Not notable.--Yankees10 23:12, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – doesn't meet criteria of WP:BASEBALL/N. —Bloom6132 (talk) 20:07, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep He played in the Venezuelan League, which is the top league in Venezuela. Therefore, he passes WP:BASEBALL/N per notability criterion 2: "Baseball figures are presumed notable if they...have appeared in at least one game [of] any...top-level national league." Alex (talk) 13:24, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the past there has been much debate over if leagues in Venezuela and the Dominican really count as top level leagues.. I would say no on these. Spanneraol (talk) 13:27, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

They are both the top level leagues in their respective nations, per their own Wikipedia articles. I cannot think of any leagues that are of higher rank. Per Wikipedia guidelines, he's notable. Alex (talk) 13:39, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The argument could be made, and has in the past, that those countries simply don't have "top-level" leagues. As the summer leagues in those countries are developmental leagues for MLB teams and the winter leagues contain mostly fringe minor leaguers hoping to get more seasoning. Spanneraol (talk) 14:56, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The basis for that claim includes assumptions and exceptions that are not included in WP:BASEBALL/N. As it is written, WP:BASEBALL/N would include the Venezuelan and Dominican winter leagues, as they are the nations' top level national leagues. The minor summer leagues are not what I would consider national leagues - rather, they are American leagues sanctioned to play and develop players from those nations. In addition, those leagues are a step above the competitive level of the developmental minor summer leagues (which consist almost solely of raw, developing teenagers and players in their early 20s), as they include - contrary to the above claim - numerous major league and high-level minor league players from around the world - from major league veterans to minor league top prospects (a glance at the Dominican league's leader board provides proof of that claim). If exceptions to WP:BASEBALL/N are desired, then one must petition a change in the wording of the rule. But as it is right now, the leagues and players in question fall entirely within the scope of WP:BASEBALL/N. Alex (talk) 15:37, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We really shouldn't be considering "winter leagues" to be the highest level of competition. That probably should be a discussion on NSPORTS's page (if that dicussion hasn't been had already). – Muboshgu (talk) 16:36, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is open to interpretation... "top-level" doesn't necessarily mean the "highest level of competition in a particular country" but could instead refer to the top-level competition in the world.. meaning the top-level leagues would be MLB, NPB, KBO, etc... I wouldn't consider the winter leagues to be top-level anymore than I would consider the Italian League or the Brazilian League top-level. Spanneraol (talk) 16:47, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

But we've kept articles on the premise that they played in the weak top leagues of various nations, like Mexico and Italy (see the AfDs for Homar Rojas and Henry Bonilla for examples). That said, I do not think the time of year the league plays should be a deciding factor in whether the league is top level or an article is worth keeping or not. The Dominican and Venezuelan summer leagues, which play a 'traditional' baseball season, are far less talent-laden and competitive leagues than their winter counterparts, which contain numerous major league, high minor and top prospect talents. In WP:BASEBALL/N, the leagues you mentioned are specifically enumerated by name in the rule, with "any other top-level national league" added at the end. That suggests that the "any other top-level national league" does refer to any and all national top leagues not mentioned. Alex (talk) 13:11, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete As I recently wrote on the WP:Articles for deletion/Jose Lugo (2nd nomination) page: while WP:BASEBALL/N does state that a player is presumed notable if he/ she plays at a top national level, that is only a rule of thumb, not a policy: a player who has played at such a level may very well be notable, but such a presumption is subject to investigation— and if, after an investigation, the presumption is not met, then in my mind notability has not been established. This appears to be the case with this player. KDS4444^Talk 14:19, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 03:12, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

List of athletes by sponsor

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Okay, this is my criticism of this list — a majority of athletes (or sportspeople to anybody but Americans) are sponsored by companies if not, get free shoes/bicycles/tires/skateboards, therefore this is more like an indiscriminate list of sportspeople who get free equipment/financial assistance as much as a list of NCAA athletes with sport scholarships and should belong to its respective page, not a list like this. Plus whilst I see the significance of the subject, I don't see the significance of this list enough to be here at all. Donnie Park (talk) 21:26, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Change: I think this is a fantastic idea for a page and would be a great contribution to available public information. Perhaps it would be more interesting (and actually have a chance of becoming comprehensive) to redesign it as a list of high-profile athlete sponsorships, with perhaps a greater focus given to non-sporting sponsors i.e. banks, razor manufacturers. --Cantivsto (talk) 02:25, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Are you trying to imply my rationale that these belong to its own (pages of sponsors) page, rather than an indiscriminate lists of people being sponsored by brands and you forgot what I was going to bring up, there are sportspeople sponsored by fast food chains and energy drinks. IIRC, I can remember once seeing a list of people being sponsored by Nike, so why can't belong there not here. Donnie Park (talk) 03:37, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is a fair point, perhaps I hadn't understood you correctly. As it stands, it's a pretty silly article as it is bound to just become an endless list of inanities. --Cantivsto (talk) 14:01, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Basically an unsourced list that appears to be original research.204.126.132.231 (talk) 23:14, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 03:13, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pat Egan (baseball)

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Non notable minor league baseball player Spanneraol (talk) 22:25, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Nothing about him sticks out. Not notable.--Yankees10 23:12, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – fails WP:BASEBALL/N. —Bloom6132 (talk) 20:10, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Would normally say delete to a free agent minor leaguer, but he's had considerable success at the minor league level, including IN 2013, and there is a good chance he will be signed for 2014 based on his performance - at which point, we could redirect him to the minor league players page of the team that signs him. Alex (talk) 13:19, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Saying you think there's a good chance he'll be signed to a minor league contract is a long way from showing notability and is WP:CRYSTALBALL.204.126.132.231 (talk) 23:13, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. v/r - T P 03:16, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Jose Lugo

AfDs for this article:

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Minor league baseball free agent... unlikely to make it to majors, no independent claims to notability Spanneraol (talk) 22:44, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Not notable.--Yankees10 23:13, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Has played in the Dominican Professional Baseball League, the highest-level league in the Dominican Republic, therefore he passes WP:BASEBALL/N. Alex (talk) 13:37, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete While WP:BASEBALL/N does state that a player is "presumed notable" if he/ she plays on a team at the top national level of any country, this is only a rule of thumb, not a policy: a presumption of notability suggests that relevant citations could be found if a person were to thoroughly dig for them... If, however, upon conducting such a dig (as it appears others have now done) with no actual evidence of notability to be found (which it appears is the case), an argument to keep the article solely on a presumption of notability seems to have failed the test of an actual investigation/ examination of notability and therefore the article does not warrant inclusion. KDS4444^Talk 14:06, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Wifione ^Message 04:30, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Matvei Igonen

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Contested PROD. Concern was Article about a footballer who fails WP:GNG and who has not played in a fully pro league. PROD was contested based on a misinterpretation of point 1 (national teams) of WP:NFOOTBALL. This point refers to the highest of level football internationally, which the Meistriiliga certainly is not. Sir Sputnik (talk) 05:04, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Assuming no other evidence of notability shows up, this decision should be either an obvious keep or obvious delete based on the historical interpretation of WP:NFOOTY, particularly its interpretation in recent Wiki-history. I do not know what that interpretation is, but the good folks at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football probably do. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 06:16, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Per nom, Estonian top league is not fully professional and youth international appearances are, by consensus, not sufficient to fulfill NFOOTY requirement of international appearances, these need to be senior. Fenix down (talk) 15:15, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 18:35, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: As I stated on the talk page...

Players, managers and referees who have represented their country in any FIFA sanctioned senior international match (including the Olympics) are notable as they have achieved the status of participating at the highest level of football.
Matvei Igonen (born 2 October 1996) is a Estonian football player, currently playing for FC Infonet in the Estonian first division Meistriliiga.
Meistriliiga (called the A. Le Coq Premium liiga from 2013 for sponsorship reasons) is the highest division of the Estonian Football Association annual football championship.

To sum it up, he has played for Meistriliiga, which is the highest division and satisfies the requirement as playing for the highest level in his area. NFOOTY does not say the team has to be fully professional although players in a fully professional league, will generally be regarded as notable. Technical 13 (talk) 23:57, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - For your information Technical 13, Meistriliiga is not a fully pro league so the player fails WP:NFOOTBALL. More importantly he hasn't received significant coverage so he fails WP:GNG. – Michael (talk) 00:48, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, fails WP:NFOOTBALL as pointed out in the original PROD.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 00:24, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - The Meistriliiga isn't a fully pro league, and since the player in question hasn't represented his country at senior level either, he fails WP:NFOOTY. Also fails WP:GNG, as he hasn't received significant coverage in reliable sources. Mentoz86 (talk) 15:00, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:13, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Nickels

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On notability grounds. Mixed martial artist who has not fought in any top tier fights. Other claims of notability are unsourced. Peter Rehse (talk) 11:43, 3 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment He actually has two top tier fights both in the UFC but he's still one short from passing WP:NMMA. Into the Rift (talk) 18:12, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Do we actually include The Ultimate Fighter as UFC - I was under the impression that it wasn't the same or considered top tier.Peter Rehse (talk) 18:16, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He fought on an Ultimate Fighter Finale event those count as UFC events the fights on the tv show do not count. Into the Rift (talk) 18:30, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Got it. Still it does not look like he will make the three top tier.Peter Rehse (talk) 22:28, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Doesn't meet WP:NMMA or WP:GNG because he lacks enough top tier fights and significant coverage.204.126.132.231 (talk) 22:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I agree with previous comments. He fails WP:NMMA and WP:GNG. Mdtemp (talk) 17:49, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. – Juliancolton | ^Talk 20:50, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nathan Williams (American football)

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The article makes no assertion of notability. Nathan Williams was an undrafted free agent who was released before playing a single snap of professional football. That's not enough to satisfy WP:NGRIDIRON and there isn't sufficient non-routine coverage or accomplishment to satisfy WP:NCOLLATH. There are dozens of such prospective NFL players every year and they aren't notable for being on the preseason team. Further, as an article about a player not in the news (because he's not playing) it's not being updated. At the time I encountered the article on October 30 it still claimed he played for Miami, even though he'd been released over two months ago. In sum, it's a non-notable stub with no prospect of expansion. Mackensen (talk) 00:44, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep according to this simple web search there appear to be many, many newsworthy articles mentioning the subject. At this volume of content there is clear interest in the individual and clearly passes WP:GNG.--Paul McDonald (talk) 11:29, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
WP:GOOGLEHITS specifically lists that argument as one to avoid. Any player for a Division I football team is going to show up in Google News results. It signifies nothing. Before nominating Williams I consulted his Ohio State profile. Despite being a puff piece it recorded no school records by him, nor no national awards. Before nominating this I also, anticipating that you would make this very post, trawled through the first five pages of Google News hits. It's all trivial mention in game coverage. None of these articles are about him as an individual. Mackensen (talk) 12:25, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- You're misunderstanding. WP:GOOGLEHITS refers to simply saying that there are "X number" of Google hits and therefore it is notable. What I've stated is that a simple google search has yielded a good number of news websites covering the subject. That's different. One says "lots of hits on anything" another says "lots of coverage in legitimate sources" -- oh, and WP:N does not require that the subject of a news article be the same as the subject of a Wikipedia article to establish notability.--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:27, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Nothing more than routine coverage an NCAA athlete would receive as Mackensen mentioned above. — X96lee15 (talk) 13:33, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails NGRIDIRON and NCOLLATH. Coverage is just routine sports reporting.204.126.132.231 (talk) 18:51, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per above. Coverage is simply routine information. öBrambleberry of RiverClan 21:26, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment coverage is far and away above routine sports coverage of basic box scores. See essay WP:NOTROUTINE for more details.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:17, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - There's info out there that isn't in the article, which is rather surprising as this person got a fair bit of coverage as a freshman for a shoplifting charge. So that plus in-depth coverage such as this article tips it into WP:GNG passage. Tarc (talk) 02:05, 1 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Routine coverage of a Division 1 collegiate player. Not sufficient for a GNG pass, in my estimation, nor are criteria for the low bar for pro athletes met. Carrite (talk) 03:54, 1 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Tarc. I wouldn't say he passes WP:NGRIDIRON, but with the shoplifting thing and the routine coverage I'd say he squeaks by the general notability guideline. Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 00:52, 2 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I think a shoplifting charge is regular routine coverage, and everything else is general coverage, fails WP:GNG (more coverage than most but still fails) and WP:ATHLETE. We need to stop with that heavy inclusionism of keeping borderline notable BLPs. Secret ^account 14:39, 3 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Shoplifting is very common and many places cover the names of people who are charged and convicted with crimes. Bottom line is his athletic career and it doesn't warrant notability WP:ATHLETE PeteBaltar (talk) 04:53, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Tarc. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 04:54, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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delete We wouldn't bother with an article on a shoplifter were he not already notable, and as far as sports are concerned this guy just didn't cut it. Mangoe (talk) 03:41, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - the subject fails WP:NGRIDIRON and WP:NCOLLATH, and hasn't received enough coverage to pass the general notability guideline. Mentoz86 (talk) 12:15, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:57, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Kendall Gaskins

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The article makes no assertion of notability. Kendall Gaskins was an undrafted free agent who was released before playing a single snap of professional football. That's not enough to satisfy WP:NGRIDIRON and there is no non-trivial coverage. There are dozens of such prospective NFL players every year and they aren't notable for being on the preseason team. Further, as an article about a player not in the news (because he's not playing) it's not being updated. At the time I encountered the article on October 23 it still claimed he played for Buffalo, even though he'd been released nearly two months ago. After fixing the references I proposed the article for deletion; the article's author removed the PROD tag on October 29 with a minor edit (no edit summary). That's his right but it's unhelpful. In sum, it's a non-notable stub with no prospect of expansion. Mackensen (talk) 12:30, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Fails WP:NGRIDIRON and any secondary coverage I can find seems to be WP:ROUTINE Sulfurboy (talk) 17:51, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep I agree that WP:GRIDIRON is not met, but I believe the subject passes WP:GNG due to the significant amount of coverage for his college career found here. Some of it is routine box scores, but many of them provide much more detail and clearly are beyond the scope of WP:ROUTINE.--Paul McDonald (talk) 11:42, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I've been reading through these results and most really are just the variety of "Gaskins ran for an 11-yard TD" or "Gaskins punched it in" which I'd expect from any write-up. What I'm looking for is an article that actually discusses Gaskins. Here's on about him being named Second Team All-CAA, which isn't all that impressive. That being said, he's bouncing around practice squads again (just released by the Titans, NYG is giving him a look). Mackensen (talk) 12:04, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Even that is beyond the scope of WP:ROUTINE. It's clearly more than just sports scores, plus there is a lot of coverage. In this ESPN article, he's the lead mention in the article. Other examples are Gaskins helps Richmond rout Gardner-Webb 41-8 and Gaskins leads Richmond past William & Mary 17-10 and Gaskins, unbeaten Richmond rally past Towson 42-14 from The Sporting News.--Paul McDonald (talk)

That's still just game coverage though. None of these articles are about him; they're recaps of games in which he's played a role. I don't think that's the standard we're supposed to apply. Put another way, there's nothing we can take from these articles to improve our article, save that he played in these football games and scored touchdowns. He's a running back; we'd expect him to do so. Mackensen (talk) 14:04, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's far above routine sports coverage. When the subject's name is in the title, it's clearly not routine. Besides, it's far and away above routine reporting of sports scores. See essay WP:NOTROUTINE for more info.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:48, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That definition of routine doesn't take into the fact that every Division I football game gets recapped at this point. If every game is recapped, with text, then that's by definition routine. Mackensen (talk) 12:29, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Every United States Presidential Election is recapped in print too. By your definition, that's routine. I could argue that every noteworthy event gets routine news coverage. Should we delete everything on Wikipedia? "Too much news coverage" is generally used to say a subject is notable, not that it is not notable. Wikipedia is not about nothing.--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:31, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Gaskins has been in the news quite recently for tryouts with the GIants and Titans (where he was briefly on the practice squad). I think it's too soon for deletion. Let's see how things play out. Candleabracadabra (talk) 13:49, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:NGRIDIRON and WP:NCOLLATH. Being invited to tryouts with a bunch of others does not show notability--hundreds try out every year for each NFL team.204.126.132.231 (talk) 18:47, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:03, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keith Pough

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The article makes no assertion of notability. Keith Pough was an undrafted free agent who was released before playing a single snap of professional football. That's not enough to satisfy WP:NGRIDIRON and there is no non-trivial coverage. There are dozens of such prospective NFL players every year and they aren't notable for being on the preseason team. Further, as an article about a player not in the news (because he's not playing) it's not being updated. At the time I encountered the article on October 23 it still claimed he played for Buffalo, even though he'd been released nearly two months ago. After fixing the references I proposed the article for deletion; the article's author removed the PROD tag on October 29 with a minor edit (no edit summary). That's his right but it's unhelpful. In sum, it's a non-notable stub with no prospect of expansion. Mackensen (talk) 12:40, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - There is information about this player on the internet. I am at the moment refraining from voting to delete this article, only to see whether someone comes up with compelling evidence to keep it. As I see it, this player has not done enough to merit an article of his own. If and when he does more notable things, then an article would be in order. Bill Pollard (talk) 12:59, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails WP:NGRIDIRON and any secondary coverage I can find seems to be WP:ROUTINE Sulfurboy (talk) 17:48, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - I think the above assessment says it all. There really is nothing notable at this time about this article. Bill Pollard (talk) 13:22, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

~~Neutral~~ I'm will Bill for now. I'm finding a lot of stuff, but it appears to be local coverage or press releases from his school. I did find a secodn team all-American FCS division, which is considered a "national award" and a good number of these smaller publications that are quoting him. He doesn't pass WP:GRIDIRON but I could see a strong argument for WP:GNG. Oh, and the article does make an assertion of notability--not a very good one, but it is there.--Paul McDonald (talk) 13:49, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed to Keep per research from Phightins! below. Nice work.--Paul McDonald (talk) 00:26, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Lots of coverage from the Washington Post and also the Charlotte Post ([6][7][8][9]) which, though that would be the local newspaper, still is one of the largest newspapers in America in terms of circulation. As such, I would think he meets GNG. Go Phightins! 23:46, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My Highbeam subscription has lapsed. Are you able to read the article and indicate the nature of the coverage? Or, better, improve the article with that information? Mackensen (talk) 12:28, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Further Comment - I researched into the four articles mentioned by Phightins!. I could not pin anything down on the Charlotte Post, since Highbeam only lets you go so far without signing up. I tried looking at the newspaper itself online, but could not locate the article, although it obviously exists. I did look at the Washington Post online and found a number of articles that at least mentioned Keith Pough. It seems the question that needs answered is whether Keith Pough's history is notable enough to warrant an article. I am willing to change my vote, but I want to hear a bit more about whether he is notable by Wikipedia standards. Bill Pollard (talk) 13:30, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The articles, I would say, offer non-trivial coverage, though Pough is undoubtedly not the main part of the article. I will do some more careful reading in hopes of extrapolating worthy information from the article in the next few days. Should I forget, please ping me on my talk page, as I will likely be busy tomorrow and Saturday, and am likely to forget. Go Phightins! 02:49, 1 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete He appears to be one of hundreds of former college players who fails to make it to the NFL every year. Nothing notable there, or in the fact that he fails both WP:NGRIDIRON and WP:NCOLLATH. Mdtemp (talk) 17:55, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 01:09, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The discussion has come to no consensus, but I would say that GiantSnoman has made a better argument that makes this discussion sway toward delete. But not enough to push the button. v/r - T P 03:15, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mahathir Azeman

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PROD contested by anon for no reason (why am I surprised). Concern was that article fails WP:NFOOTY and WP:GNG and that case still stands today. ArsenalFan700 (talk) 07:43, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 09:24, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 09:25, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - although the subject does not appear to pass NFOOTY yet, there is a case for GNG. The following sources provide substantial indepth coverage of the player, containing interviews and comment beyond routine match reports:

Mahathir's star will only get brighter
Football: A toast to Mahathir Azeman
Mahathir joins Boavista
TNP SSS Profile- Mahathir's hard work pays off
Boavista hand Mahathir one-year deal
17-year-old Mahathir Azeman to train with Boavista
The Success Story of Mahathir Azeman - contains a number of screenshots of substantial newspaper articles about the player, not all of them covered above.

Unlike almost all other young players who have not played senior international football or in an FPL, there genuinely does seem to be a significant amount of coverage about this player in Singapore media (and what I have noted above is only in English), beyond mentioning his name in match reports or briefly noting transfers. Would be interested in @GiantSnowman: and @ArsenalFan700: views on the level of coverage noted above. Fenix down (talk) 11:16, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A case of WP:BLP1E - the media always get themselves in a brief frenzy whenever a young foreign player signs for a 'big' club, see for example Jack Harper who is a young Scot playing for Real Madrid. Giant Snowman 11:20, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not really, the articles discuss more than just the transfer. Would suggest re-reading them in detail please, the four minutes between my post and yours suggests you did not. Fenix down (talk) 11:58, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for ABFing and assuming I didn't read the articles. Are any of them more than "look at this young Singaporean who plays for a Brazilian club"? No, not really. BLP1E, as I have already said. Giant Snowman 14:12, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Er... I didn't assume you hadn't read them, just that as there are several thousand word of text, I questioned whether four minutes was sufficient time to read them in detail and form a solid conclusion, so no need to get snippy. You kind of support my suggestion by failing to realise that the transfer was to the Brazilian club not the Portuguese one, something that is noted repeatedly in those elements of the sources I noted above that deal with the transfer.

More over, the first source, a reasonably extensive article on the player himself, does not mention this transfer at all. The second source, though related to the transfer, places it in a wider context of Singapore / Brazil relations and notes the player being introduced to senior politicans and diplomats. The third source is another in-depth article on the player and does not mention the transfer at all. The final link contains a readable screenshot (the second one) of a full page article on the player again interviewing him and outlining his career to date, without mentioning his transfer whatsoever.

Now, there may not be enough there to satisfy GNG for you, and that is fine, but to dismiss the sources as BLP1E is demonstrably incorrect, this is clearly a young player who has attracted a reasonable level of in-depth attention, a level which does not necessarily guarantee GNG, but is certainly worth discussion. Fenix down (talk) 15:38, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A slip of the finger, apologies - I'm actually playing as Boavista on this video game at the moment, will have to resign in shame after this ;)

Let me be a bit clearer then - are there enough sources which cover this individual in great detail, apart from the fact "ooh it's a Singaporean in Brazil"? I don't think there are, and that's why I still think it fails GNG and BLP1E. Giant Snowman 15:52, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ha ha! Personally, not sure that there is a need for "great detail", that's not mentioned anywhere in GNG. There are above a number of sources some of which deal (in detail and including significant interviews with the player) with the transfer, but also a number that deal with his wider footballing achievements without discussing the transfer in any way. These sources are significant in their coverage in terms of their length and with the player very young one would not expect a huge number of interview and I would argue would generally expect less than is available here. I don't think there is any grounds to doubt their reliability nor that they are independant of the article subject. It's a grey area when dealing with young players as when they have never played in an FPL it is easy to dismiss their case, but I'm not so sure here. Fenix down (talk) 16:04, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"great detail" (my words) = "significant coverage" (GNG's wording). GNG requires there to be in-depth coverage, or to quote again, "addresses the topic directly and in detail." Giant Snowman 16:14, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think there is scope to say that, as I have said above, there are a number of significant interviews carried out with the player aside from the significant coverage his transfer garnered. Whereas in 99% of occasions I would agree with you wholeheartedly about non intl / FPL youth players, here I think there is scope for discussion. Fenix down (talk) 16:26, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Singapore-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:18, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ya... I still need to look at those. Will be back soon. --ArsenalFan700 (talk) 09:58, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Brazil-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:18, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:18, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:19, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Fenix down has demonstrated that the subject passes the general notability guideline, as it has received significant coverage in reliable sources even if we disregard the routine transfer news. Mentoz86 (talk) 12:45, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Delete Doesn't meet NFOOTY and the articles all seem to be about his signing. For right now it looks like BLP1E and WP:TOOSOON, but he may become notable shortly.204.126.132.231 (talk) 19:55, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - though as has been noted repeatedly above, there are articles of significant length that discuss his career without mentioning the transfer at all. Fenix down (talk) 08:53, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - As per Fenix post above, player has received significant non-routine coverage from reliable sources to pass WP:GNG. TonyStarks (talk) 19:57, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee // have a cup // essay // 22:27, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I have gone over each of the citations provided in the article as it currently stands (see timestamp below for specific time). The first two citations are to links that do not mention the subject of the article anywhere (he may be mentioned somewhere on those web sites, but the links themselves show no evidence of this). The thirds citation is to an article in which his name is mentioned only in passing (i.e., he is not the subject of the article and his mention there is too brief to qualify as evidence of notability). In the fourth citation, again the subject is not mentioned anywhere. The fifth citation actually has a named author— "Shamir Osman"— though the link is to a web page (on "AsiaOne.com") that itself is quoting another web site called "The New Paper" of which Osman is a "user" (not a writer or editor) and which does not give any indication of editorial oversight (which I suspect it does not have)— in my opinion, this means it cannot confer standalone notability. The next citation is only to a list of names (not viable for establishing notability). The seventh citation is again a link to The New Paper, and this time does not give the name of any author, making it further suspect. Given that none of these seven citations appears by itself to confer notability, together they cannot do this either. It seems to me that if the subject of this article were truly notable, finding at least one unambiguously reliable third-party source to show this should not be so difficult. KDS4444^Talk 14:51, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Notability isn't about what sources are presently in the article, but what kind of coverage could be found. Would you do an equally in-depth analysis of the sources that Fenix down has linked in this discussion? Mentoz86 (talk) 15:39, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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