User talk:Trappist the monk/Archive 4

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Monkbot task 7

Hi. Many pages seem to have bots template with Monkbot7 value without a deny/allow parameter set. This causes them to appear at User:AnomieBOT/Nobots_Hall_of_Shame#Pages_with_broken_exclusion_templates. Can you please check and remove the bot tag here it is not needed or replace |1= with |deny= were the tag needed? Thanks, Magioladitis (talk) 12:56, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Monkbot is not adding these templates. It looks like SandyGeorgia added at least some of them, like this one and this one. SandyGeorgia, can you please fix these templates so that they work as you want them to? – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:12, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Slovenian/Slovene

Hi, Trappist, regarding this edit, there was no particular need to switch 'Slovene' to 'Slovenian'. Even more, although both terms are acceptable in writing, the term 'Slovene' has been given preference in dictionaries, which is why it has been preferred by editors also here; see Slovene language. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 11:16, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Monkbot task 6 made that edit because Wikimedia doesn't recognize Slovene as a language name. Module:Citation/CS1 categorizes citations that identify foreign language sources by testing the content of |language= against the list of languages that Wikimedia knows about. Because Slovene is not a language name that Wikimedia recognizes, pages with citations using |language=Slovene are categorized into Category:CS1 maint: Unrecognized language.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:38, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Addendum: Sava Hills isn't currently included in Category:CS1 maint: Unrecognized language because of a bug in the current live version of Module:Citation/CS1. That bug has been fixed in the sandbox so after the next update to the live module, Sava Hills will again be included in the unrecognized language category.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:16, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Identifier-based citation templates

A tag has been placed on Category:Identifier-based citation templates requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for four days or more and it is not presently under discussion at Categories for discussion, or at disambiguation categories.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines.

Every template in the category is deprecated. Category is empty. Knife-in-the-drawer (talk) 11:39, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion on renaming Category:Taito NESiCAxLive games

Hello, you're invited to vote and express your views on the respective discussion page. Jotamide (talk) 15:39, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

huh — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.31.0.219 (talk) 14:51, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

quotes around refname

Hi Trappist- Re your revert of my removal of the quotes from around name in our excruciatingly long and difficult-to-use source-citing guideline: Given the refname help section* you linked to in your edit summary, don't you think it would be helpful to mention in the guideline that the quotes are rarely necessary?
*Quotation marks are optional if the only characters used are letters A–Z, a–z, digits 0–9, and the symbols !$%&()*,-.:;<@[]^_`{|}~. Eric ^talk 19:44, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Do you have some evidence that supports your statement that quotes are rarely necessary? I think that quotes should always be used. True, if the value assigned to name= doesn't have spaces, the quotes aren't required but, using quotes is stylistically similar to how attributes are used in HTML and XML which <ref>...</ref> resembles. Using quotes in the guideline, I think, serves to subtly educate editors so that when they do use a reference name that has spaces, they do it correctly even though they don't realize it.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:00, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Ah, didn't catch that about needing them to handle spaces...that makes sense to me. When I saw refs that didn't use quotes, I thought maybe I could simplify the guide. I was trying to get something tedious done in less time, and not paying thorough attention to the guidelines. Nothing slows me down or kills my editing fervor like our help and guideline pages--they are our weakest area in my estimation. For someone who knows his way around wp pretty well and wants a quick reference, I find them agonizing to use. Thanks for your help. Eric ^talk 20:18, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

@Eric,Trappist the monk Random chime in. Quotes around HTML5 parameters are optional. In HTML4 they were recommended but still optional. Effectively they have always been optional except for some XML and XHTML specifications (but even then browsers handled it). I prefer the opposite to Trappist; I avoid quotes unless they are needed. Why? Because it clutters up the source and makes it more difficult to read. Things start to look like syntax soup, especially to non-coders. I suggest that the increase in the ease of reading (and therefore editing) of the source by using no quotes exceeds the benefit of "educating" the users on a syntax issue that doesn't even matter (as per the history of HTML). Jason Quinn (talk) 17:19, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the input, @Jason_Quinn. I'm one of those non-coders who knows just enough to get in trouble, so greater ease of legibility reduces my terror level. Do you guys think we should move this exchange over to Wikipedia_talk:Citing_sources? Eric ^talk 12:55, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 21 July

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ISSN

Just wondering if you could help at Template talk:ISSN#Check for invalid ISSN? -- WOSlinker (talk) 11:55, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

vcite2 journal

I cleaned all instances of vcite2 journal. I hope I did not do anything stupid. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:52, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

List of superfoods

Trappist -- as you have contributed to editing this list in the past, please give your thoughts on whether the article should be deleted, as proposed yesterday.[1] Guidelines:[2]. Thanks. --Zefr (talk) 14:31, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

August 2015

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Sir Edward Stafford

I recently ran across the wiki for Sir Edward Stafford, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Stafford_%28diplomat%29. Do you know of any images of Sir Edward?

We have a portrait in our museum collection that may be of Sir Edward. The evidence is slim so far (happy to share if you are interested). Another image of Sir Edward would certainly inform our research.

Thanks

Perry Hurt Associate Conservator North Carolina Museum of Art — Preceding unsigned comment added by Perry Hurt (talk • contribs) 17:26, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Alas, no. If you can confirm that your portrait is Sir Edward, I expect that it would make a nice addition to the article.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:40, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Your sig

I see from this (which I have now fixed) that the WP:LISTGAP issue with your sig, which I raised here last December and again in January is still present. Is there a reason you have not fixed it? Please do so. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:38, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

175 (number)

Somehow or other I managed to completely misread what was written. Thanks for putting me right. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:24, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Monkbot et al task slight failure

Look at the Vignal reference in this edit for a slight bug in Monkbot's et al. code. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:06, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, have to think about that one. Thanks.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 10:54, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Why is et al. being changed to etal? I've never seen the remarkable word "etal" before. Has some official change been made somewhere? Thanks, --Hordaland (talk) 00:45, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

There are four cs1|2 parameters where the inclusion of etal is permissible: |display-authors=, |display-editors=, |vauthors=, and |veditors=. The first two cause Module:Citation/CS1 to append the standardized 'et al.' text to name lists composed of |lastn= / |firstn= / |authorn= and |editor-lastn= / |editor-firstn= / |editorn= parameters. Similarly, the latter two are Vancouver system formatted lists of author or editor names where the keyword etal is replaced with the standardized 'et al.' text.

There are editors who, for lack of understanding, habit, or whatever reason, write the et al. text with italic markup, odd capitalization, with or without correct punctuation, etc. so the module replaces these non-standard forms with the standard form. Why does Monkbot task 7 use etal? Because etal is the canonical form first adopted for |display-authors= and |display-editors= as a keyword to tell the module what to do with those parameters. Yes, I could have made task 7 write a correct standardized form but that doesn't subtly enforce the notion that form of the 'et al.' text is controlled by the module and not by the editor.

Alles klar?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 01:18, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Not really; I only understood about 40% of that. It looked/looks weird, but it looks fine in the refs on the article pages. Thanks, Hordaland (talk) 04:18, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Citation module

Hi! Was adapting Citation module for Latvian Wikipedia. Everything is OK (currently), except for one thing. If some user uses some author parameters (author; last+first etc.) and |year= (or date etc.), then there is such output: Author(s) (year) .... If there is no author, but is year, then the year is somewhere in the middle. We would like to switch to the second case as default one. I hope, I described well, what I want :) Could you help? Tried to do that myself, but the corresponding code was too complex. You can make any changes to modules directly @lvwiki, you can't screw anything. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 18:45, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

You've discovered why I haven't answered this pseudo-RFC. To this point in my life I haven't felt a need to try to understand that particular bit of the code.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you want. By 'default', do you mean what happens when Authors and Editors are not set? Do you mean that you want Date to be placed in the same position all the time regardless of the state of Authors, Editors, CitationClass, and Periodical?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:11, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes. I would like to see, that in output date is like in that RFC for reference, that contains The Daily Telegraph (London). 4 August 2011, no matter is there some authors shown or not. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 20:39, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

I tweaked your code. Is that what you want?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:38, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

As you can see here, it doesn't look good. Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 22:44, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

it doesn't look good is not a helpful answer. I know that author is missing its separator; worry about small stuff like that later. Is the date positioned as you want it?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:02, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh, yes. Position is OK. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 05:39, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Ok, I've tweaked the code so that author now has it's separator. Do these changes work for all of the cs1|2 templates? Why is |first= rendered before |last=?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:50, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Tested for web, book, journal - looks good. Will do a bigger testing later, if something will be wrong, will get in touch. About first/last - we decided to have first before last, it's better for Latvian language. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 12:23, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Also was thinking about date translation from English to Latvian. Would that be technically possible? The most standart English dates (like 4 September 2015 and September 4, 2015) would be fine. Latvian forms are pretty easy - both dates would translate as 2015. gada 4. septembris. Of course, if it would take quite much time to implement, then you don't have to do that now, but when you have some time (of course, if you want to help me :) ). Currently, it is just an idea. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 11:13, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

You removed date validation. That needs to be restored – no sense in attempting to translate a malformed date. Is there a need to translate ymd dates? I'll need a list of all month names (including seasons: spring, summer, autumn, fall, winter).

I can add code to lv:Modulis:Citation/CS1/Date validation to validate the Latvian date format. Is 'gada' always used and always exactly the same way? What about date ranges? d–d month year; d month – d month year; month d–d, year; Month d – Month d, year; year–year; etc.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:50, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

No, please without date validation. I know your intension was good to include that here, but it will be good without that in Latvian Wikipedia, at least currently. One of the reasons - I think more that 50% (but most probably maybe some 75%) of all instances uses date template (quite similar to yout {{date}}, but no so cool). Need just translating part :) I'm thinking only about those two variants, which I mentioned above (4 September 2015 and September 4, 2015), don't want to translate 2015-09-04 or other numeric dates, because 2015-09-04 can also be April 9, 2015. Latvian names: janvāris, februāris, marts, aprīlis, maijs, jūnijs, jūlijs, augusts, septembris, oktobris, decembris. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 12:23, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

November is novembris?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:11, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Whoops, missed that. Yes - novembris. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 14:40, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

See lv:Veidne:Grāmatas atsauce/Testi.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:06, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

THANK YOU very much :) Included month abbreviations, didn't thought about them, so thanks. You could take a look and say if this is the proper format to include them (for future reference). --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 17:52, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

vauthor

Makes the author not work when copied and pasted into other languages [3] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:42, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Doc James: The cleanup script that you run after pasting a citation into another language's WP should be able to substitute |vauthors= with an appropriate author parameter in that language's citation template. I clean up copy-pasted foreign language citation templates all the time using an AutoEd script. You're welcome to copy my script, or parts of it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:26, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Clean up script? We have been installing a bunch of templates in all the other languages and have simply been using those templates to prevent needing to do this step. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:29, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

|vauthors= and |veditors= were added to cs1|2 at en:wp largely in response to WP:MED.

If the templates that you've been installing are using {{citation/core}} then changing the individual templates ({{cite journal}}, etc) should make |vauthors= and |veditors= work.

change this:

|Surname1={{{last|{{{last1|{{{author|{{{author1|{{{authors|{{{surname|{{{surname1|}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

to

|Surname1={{{vauthors|{{{last|{{{last1|{{{author|{{{author1|{{{authors|{{{surname|{{{surname1|}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

and change this:

|EditorSurname1={{{editor-last|{{{editor1-last|{{{editor|{{{editors|{{{editor-surname|{{{editor1-surname|}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

to this:

|EditorSurname1={{{veditors|{{{editor-last|{{{editor1-last|{{{editor|{{{editors|{{{editor-surname|{{{editor1-surname|}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Does this work for you?

If you are installing some version of the lua modules then the answer is not so simple.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:11, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

USS_Pee_Dee_River_(LSM(R)-517)

If you are interested in the ship's later history, I put additional info on the talk page.→StaniStani 12:50, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

...for tidying up my assorted messes at the ship naming conventions rewrite proposal. It is appreciated. -- saberwyn 11:54, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Renaming a module

Please see Module talk:Citation/CS1#Requested move 9 September 2015. Whoever closes this request may be unaware of whether it will break anything. Since you've edited the file, you may want to comment. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 02:08, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 09:44, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

bot error?

this edit looks like a bug. I am not aware that any of the parameters involved is deprecated. DES ^(talk) 01:18, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

|date= is not deprecated. Monkbot task 1 looks for |month= which is deprecated. If |month= is found Monkbot combines it with |year= (and |day= if present – also deprecated) to create |date=. Before any of that happens, Monkbot searches for and removes empty |date=, |day=, |month= and |year= parameters to avoid the duplicate parameter problem.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 09:34, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Trappist! Checkingfax also brought up this issue - see Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser#AWB is removing date= parameter in references. Is there a way to update the bot code so that it doesn't save the edit if it doesn't remove a deprecated parameter? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 00:42, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

I will have a look.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:38, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

When there is no |month= or |day= removing an empty |date= seems unhelpful, as having the empty (but not duplicated) parameter can make adding the date later easier, and it does no harm. But if the bot is going to remove an empty |date= without more, can the edit summer be something like "Removing unused parameters" or "removing empty parameters" rather than "Fix CS1 deprecated date parameter errors"? the later is in such cases simply incorrect and causes confusion. DES ^(talk) 00:53, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't know that having empty parameters in 'hot standby', ready to be filled, is actually any easier than typing a new parameter name/value pair in a minimally populated template. First you have to find the parameter you're looking for in the sea of text and template parameters before you can add the parameter's value. There are those among us who complain mightily about template clutter and I admit to having sympathy for their cause; sure, empty parameters do no harm, but neither do they add real value.

I'll look at tweaking the edit summary.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:38, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Ships prefixed MT

Hello Trappist the monk. Thanks for fixing the title at MT Indiga. I've noticed that all the MT-prefixed ships using DISPLAYTITLE or {{italic title}} show that same error (Ex MT Frans Suell). Would it be possible to add the prefix MT to Template:Ship prefix to italicize the title automatically? I tried to add it myself, but it didn't seem to do anything...perhaps I did it wrong? Howicus (Did I mess up?) 01:20, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

{{ship prefix}} is no longer being used by {{infobox ship begin}}. I have replaced it with Module:WPSHIPS utilities. More information about that at WT:SHIPS.

I have added MT to Module:WPSHIPS utilities/sandbox. The change will take effect when next I update the live version (which updates are ongoing).

—Trappist the monk (talk) 09:43, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Ah, thanks, that sounds good. Howicus (Did I mess up?) 21:38, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Category move needed

Can you move the wikilink category to Category:CS1 errors: URL–wikilink conflict? I don't think I have the right permissions. Also Category:CS1 errors: translated title. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:40, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

SS Badger

The bot puts a bullet in front to the {{infobox NRHP}} template in the ship notes= section of the ship infobox and it messes up the rest of the article. See this diff. I don't know if there is some way to format that so the bot doesn't keep doing it and maybe there are other ships that it is treating the same way. Maybe that's not how the NRHP template is supposed to embedded, idk. Just thought you might want to know. --Dual Freq (talk) 21:39, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. A case of garbage in garbage out. {{infobox NRHP}} does not belong in the |Ship notes= parameter of {{Infobox ship characteristics}}. Fixed.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:47, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Question about why external links in "|work=" now generates an error

Hi, I have been looking through various Help_talk:Citation_Style_1 discussions in an attempt to understand why having an external link in |work= is now generating an error. I have been populating this parameter with external link for years & just noticed that it now causes an error. It is obvious to me why external links in |title= & in |chapter=, as they conflict with |url= & |chapter-url= respectively. However, there is nothing like a |work-url= for |work= to conflict with. The documentation essentially just says that's the way it is.

I have seen your username all over the discussions at Help talk:Citation Style 1#choosing the correct metadata when |chapter=, |title=, and |work= are all set & Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 9#How to resolve external link errors without work-url= or journal-url=?. I am just hoping to get a succinct, coherent explanation why external links in |work= cause a problem.

I am a heavy user of citation templates. I also have been in IT for 25 years & have dabbled in my share of programming languages, so while I may not be familiar with the syntax of modules, I probably get a grasp of a moderately technical discussion.

Peaceray (talk) 21:38, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Peaceray, Help talk:Citation Style 1 would be a good place to ask your question in a more public place, as there is already a discussion in progress there. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:51, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Moved to Help talk:Citation Style 1

Invitation to join MILHIST

Hello, Trappist the monk, you are hereby invited to join the Military history WikiProject! We're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history, theory, and practice. You can add your name to the list of members, browse our showcase, train at the Academy, weigh in at current discussions, read the news, or find an open task. We hope you will join us! Anotherclown (talk) 22:12, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

zh-hk in {{cite-web}}

• [4]

So, zh-hk is deprecated? Deryck C. 15:52, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Module:Citation/CS1 supports ISO 639-1 and the code's matching name. So, cs1|2 does not support RFC 1766-style language codes (code-subcode where 'code' is ISO 639-1 and 'subcode' is ISO 3166 country code). zh-HK has never been supported so cannot be deprecated.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:05, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palliative_sedation

On Nov 11 2015 I inserted the word "diseases" and you removed my contribution saying, "Unnecessary and confusing: symptoms and diseases are not synonyms."

Could you please justify why you did this because it is strange what you did? Please respond here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tvcv

"disease" word is layperson friendly, used 7.5 times more than "symptom" according to google. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tvcv (talk • contribs) 10:37, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

You are mistaken. Your edits were reverted by clpo13. See the article's history.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:36, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

A redirect for your user page?

I know you have a long history of not having a user page, and I remember that it came up during your RfA, but it sure does look odd to see a red link when I type Trappist the monk and wonder whether I have typed your name correctly. I wonder if you would give some thought to creating your user page as a redirect to your talk page, as Gadget850 has done. Do what thou wilt. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:37, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

One of my many faults is that when told, either explicitly or implicitly, that I must do something, I resist. There are editors who have publicly wondered how it is possible that anyone with a redlinked user name can have the mop. It is for them that I will continue as I have done.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:59, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

I know you that well. Hence my "I wonder if you would give some thought". I would not deign to insist. Rather, I hoped you would give it some thought and come to the conclusion on your own that the Gadget850 way would allow you to remain true to your faults while simultaneously being kind to those of us in whose eyes you do not wish to insert your thumbs.

You could still style your signature such that your user name appeared in red.... – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:01, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:12, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Strategic Barnstar

		Strategic Barnstar
		For your hard work and due diligence creating or editing strategic deterrent related articles or Ballistic missile submarine related pages, you have been awarded the Strategic Barnstar. Your outstanding performance provides significant and long lasting benefits to Wikipedia, Congratulations! Signed: Legohead1my_talk 17:02, 24 November 2015 (UTC)	This editor has been awarded the Strategic Barnstar for creating or editing strategic deterrent related articles.

A bowl of strawberries for you!

With thanks for your outstanding responsiveness in updating the template "Birth based on age as of date" to match the MoS. Gronk Oz (talk) 14:10, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

November 2015

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WikiLove

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Module:Citation/CS1

Can you please check Village pump because date problem is still present... --Obsuser (talk) 02:04, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Lua (references module) /copied from Village pump (technical)/

Why are symbols other than latin ones in the names of months or seasons not working? I get error if I use "август" instead of "August"... Module can be saved but "|date=7 август 1970" is not accepted, for example... This is from Module:Citation/CS1/Date_validation?--Obsuser (talk) 19:38, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

local long_months = {['January']=1, ['February']=2, ['March']=3, ['April']=4, ['May']=5, ['June']=6, ['July']=7, ['August']=8, ['September']=9, ['October']=10, ['November']=11, ['December']=12};
local short_months = {['Jan']=1, ['Feb']=2, ['Mar']=3, ['Apr']=4, ['May']=5, ['Jun']=6, ['Jul']=7, ['Aug']=8, ['Sep']=9, ['Oct']=10, ['Nov']=11, ['Dec']=12};

Are you referring to the Serbian version sr:Modul:Citation/CS1/Date validation? If so, please post a link to a test case. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:25, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Because English dates use the Latin character set, here we can get away with using date_string:match(). Non-Latin languages must use the ustring library.

In function dates(), wherever a month, season, or named date is not numeric, you must use this form (this example to match the date form from your example:

if mw.ustring.match(date_string, "^[1-9]%d? +%a+ +[1-9]%d%d%d%a?$") then</code>
    day, month, anchor_year, year=mw.ustring.match(date_string, "(%d%d*)%s*(%a+)%s*((%d%d%d%d)%a?)");
    ...
    end

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:42, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

---

@PrimeHunter: Yes. Here: [5] I also do not know why is everything italicized nor why do I have dead-url error... --Obsuser (talk) 21:08, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

@Trappist the monk: Thank you. I will try that... --Obsuser (talk) 21:08, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

I fixed the italics for now. You will need to modify Common.css so that citations use the proper <cite>...</cite> tags. See en common.css. When that is done, replace the enclosing <span>...</span> with <cite>...</cite>.

Your version of is_valid_parameter_value() has been modified. If you make it the same as it is here, do your tests work?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:03, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Also, in sr:Modul:Citation/CS1/Configuration, the DeadURL default is a single value not a table of three possibilities. There can be only one default state; here, it is 'yes'.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:10, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

@Trappist the monk: I modified is_valid_parameter_value() because I was getting an error ("... attempt to call method 'lower' (a nil value)"; image here) when using same version as it is Module:Citation/CS1. I will delete two values from DeadURL... Thank you for help. --Obsuser (talk) 23:38, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

I did the default fix; Your last changes to the main module may have put it out of sync with the other modules. You might want to revert them and then restore is_valid_parameter_value(). That should fix the errors and improper italics in your tests. Then all that's left is the date stuff.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:07, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

@Trappist the monk: Yes, thank you. I changed main module to get photo of the error; it is reverted now (in sync) and is_valid_parameter_value() is restored. However, dead-url error is still present despite using one value... :( --Obsuser (talk) 01:08, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

is_valid_parameter_value() didn't get restored. It has been now; no dead url error.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 01:15, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

@Trappist the monk: Oh, I got it wrong; I have been thinking about restoring it from version which is used on English Wikipedia (and Serbian when I reverted your edits to take a pic) to my correction; you have said something else... Never mind. Thank you really for help! I might ask something else, later... --Obsuser (talk) 04:14, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

---

---

1. Date parameter is now OK, but access-date does not accept anything else except year number.
2. Also, if I use parameter |приступ-датум=, English: |access-date= (with this access-date error present), I get error message with English language text:

Проверите вредности за датум у следећим параметрима: |access-date= instead of

Проверите вредности за датум у следећим параметрима: |приступ-датум=

3. Is there a way to use dot after a day number because Serbian date format is a little bit different. It is: "(d)d. month yyyy." (long form) or "(d)d. (m)m. yyyy." (short form). (dot after year will get added anyway because it separates parameters in Wikipedia references by default, and if it is in brackets — i.e. "Surname, Name (2005)" — it’s rule NOT to write it; i.e. ".)" is forbidden, as well as any number followed by dot followed by any other punctuation sign: "6.,", "17.;")
4. Is there a way to enter a month number (for example: "4.", WITH dot), and to make modules recognize that value as correct (as "April" is recognized on English Wikipedia)?

Date formats that are acceptable in Serbian are: "(d)d. month yyyy." (not "dd. month yyyy."; if day value is between 1 and 9, zero is not being written; i.e. not "03. month yyyy." but "3. month yyyy."), and "(d)d. (m)m. yyyy." (not "(d)d. mm yyyy."; if month value is between 1 and 9, zero is not being written; i.e. not "03. 06. yyyy." but "3. 6. yyyy."). --Obsuser (talk) 02:01, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

I'll address these issues tomorrow (I'm in UTC-7). We should probably move this discussion to my talk page.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 03:11, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

I changed string.match(date_string, → mw.ustring.match(date_string,, and date_string:match ( → mw.ustring.match(date_string, in Модул:Citation/CS1/Date validation, and updated Модул:Citation/CS1/Configuration and all other modules meanwhile... --Obsuser (talk) 03:43, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

1. The access date problem is somewhere in is_valid_accessdate(). Does 'today + 2 days' in pcall( lang.formatDate, lang, 'U', 'today + 2 days' ) need to be in Serbian? The call to is_valid_accessdate() is commented out in dates().
2. The error message gets its parameter name from the table passed to dates(). To fix the error message:
   1. in dates(), change date, year, and access-date in 'date'==k, 'year'==k, 'access-date'==k to Serbian ('access-date'==k → 'приступ-датум'==k, etc)
   2. in sr:Модул:Citation/CS1 change the dates call to use the Serbian parameter names: dates({['access-date']=AccessDate,...}) → dates({['приступ-датум']=AccessDate,...}), etc
3. I've added a check for the (d)d. (m)m. yyyy format to check_date(). Because . matches all characters, it needs to be escaped as %.
4. answered with #3?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:22, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Can you help or direct me?

Hi Trappist; i occasionally try and reduce the number of CS1 errors, and today discovered the "external links" error, so i've corrected a few and will go back for more. I have looked, however, and it seems that some ~ or many, i don't know ~ are generated by this template which seems to pass an external link to the publisher parameter of every citation it's used for. I took a brief look, but i'm no template editor, so i wonder if you might point to me how i can stop this error message being generated so frequently ~ if there is a way, which i assume there must be; cheers, Lindsay^Hello 14:54, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

I've tweaked {{Medieval Lands by Charles Cawley}} to remove the url from |publisher=. The error messages caused by the template will start going away as the job queue gets to the pages that have the error. Null edits also work to clear the error if the job queue hasn't gotten to a particular page.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:26, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. I shall go and take a look at what you did, maybe try and learn a bit for next time ~ one of the joys of a collaborative project like this; cheers, Lindsay^Hello 15:29, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi Trappist! I'm looking at other templates in Category:CS1 errors: external links, and I removed the URL from Template:Cite American Factfinder. I see that Template:Cite Hansard/doc encourages the behavior that causes the error. Any suggestions? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 17:49, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

I think that you should delete the last example (it's poorly formed because it: uses an undocumented alias of |hansard=; includes a url that should be in |url=; and along with most of the other examples, isn't really much of an example because it doesn't lead to an actual Hansard page). And then, delete ' or an external link' from the |hansard= description.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 18:24, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Then do you also suggest removal of the note in Template:Cite_Hansard/doc#URL? GoingBatty (talk) 22:23, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

I do, because an external link in |hansard= is the same as an external link in |journal= (my last example item above), the two parameters are aliases.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 09:37, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

 Done - thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 02:35, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Page field in citation

I see that you are removing the "p." text that has been inserted in things like cite journal as they have been put in by hand. The documentation for example cite journal says that the "p." should be inserted automatically but clearly CS1 doesnt do this hence why they have been put in by hand. Clearly something not right somewhere is there somewhere this is explained or discussed, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 16:17, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

See cite journal §In-source locations and §Periodical.

It is the prerogative and responsibility of the cs1|2 templates to provide appropriate static text and punctuation so that citations are rendered in a consistent fashion. {{cite journal}} is used for citing academic or scholarly periodicals. In keeping with that purpose, it renders citations in a manner consistent with academic journal citation styles used outside of Wikipedia.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:30, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

OK thanks perhaps somebody should update the related documentation. MilborneOne (talk) 16:40, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Go ahead. If the documentation isn't clear, feel free to make it more clear.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:41, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

You are making undiscuused changes to the reference format of articles, making them inconsistent (with journals and books being inconsistent). Please stop and revert these undiscussed changes which are only making referencing less clear and harder to follow.Nigel Ish (talk) 17:03, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

For a very long time, the cs1 templates {{cite book}} and {{cite journal}} have not rendered page number(s) in the same manner. The colon-space prefix was introduced with this edit in July 2005. The two templates were not then and are not now intended to render page numbers in the same way. As documented at Template:Cite journal#COinS, editors should not be adding extra text to cs1|2 parameters.

Consider using {{cite magazine}} in place of {{cite journal}} for non-academic periodicals.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:35, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

You are making mass, bot-like changes to the formatting of references using AWB, without any sort of discussion on the article talk pages. As people have bothered to add p. and pp. is is clear that that is how the editors intended the references to look. These changes fall within the realms of WP:CITEVAR. It is disengenous to state that editors should be using cite magazine rather than cite journal when the change from cite magazine being a redirect are completely unannounced. I say again that these mass changes are harmful to the encyclopedia.Nigel Ish (talk) 18:08, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

The ability to detect extra text like 'p.' and 'pp.' in |page(s)= and 'ed.' in |edition= was added to Module:Citation/CS1 in July. The addition was not something that just happened. You can find the discussions in Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 8. About a month later we broached the topic of establishing {{cite magazine}} as a separate template. That discussion is also in Archive 8. At the beginning of this month, we created {{cite magazine}}; you can find that discussion in Help talk:Citation Style 1. None of these things happened under cover of darkness. Help talk:Citation Style 1 is the central point for information exchange in all matters concerning cs1|2 templates.

Templates provide repeatably consistent renderings of citations within an article. One cost of that consistency is a limit on what values are acceptable. While it is possible to misapply cs1|2 parameters to achieve some desired rendering, doing so does not make it correct or the rendering valid. When a cs1|2 template does not produce the desired output, the correct action to take is to choose another cs1|2 template or to choose to create a citation without using a template. For example, here is a template from one of the articles that you reverted:

{{cite journal |last=Dekkers |first=Hans |title=Flying the Angel 44 |journal=[[Flight International]] |date=29 September – 5 October 1993|pages=pp. 25–26 |url=http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1993/1993%20-%202331.html?search=kings%20angel |accessdate=15 September 2008}}}}

Dekkers, Hans (29 September – 5 October 1993). "Flying the Angel 44". Flight International: pp. 25–26. Retrieved 15 September 2008. {{cite journal}}: |pages= has extra text (help)

re-written to use {{citation}} and |periodical= (and |mode=cs1 so that the style is the same):

{{citation |mode=cs1 |last=Dekkers |first=Hans |title=Flying the Angel 44 |periodical=[[Flight International]] |date=29 September – 5 October 1993|pages=25–26 |url=http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1993/1993%20-%202331.html?search=kings%20angel |accessdate=15 September 2008}}

Dekkers, Hans (29 September – 5 October 1993). "Flying the Angel 44". Flight International. pp. 25–26. Retrieved 15 September 2008.

Alternately, {{cite news}}:

Dekkers, Hans (29 September – 5 October 1993). "Flying the Angel 44". Flight International. pp. 25–26. Retrieved 15 September 2008.

So, there were a couple of legitimate options that were available well before the creation of {{cite magazine}}.

It is pretty clear to me that correcting the misuse of a template's parameters, where that misuse is in contravention of the template's documentation, is not a violation of WP:CITEVAR, but rather, looked upon as Generally considered helpful (last bullet point). And yes, I am using AWB to accomplish this because there are nearly 9000 pages listed at Category:CS1 maint: Extra text.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:58, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Changes to citation format

I was very particular in the citation format for a number of my articles, using p. or pgs to denote pages. This is because its very confusing to read the citation when the citations include as they often do, volume and issue number for newspapers. Please engage me in discussion beforehand.Mtsmallwood (talk) 23:58, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

For some reason, I find myself repeating this a lot lately. It is the purpose of the cs1|2 templates to provide the necessary standardized text, punctuation, etc when rendering citations. The templates make no attempt to accommodate all of the possible ways that editors would prefer to have citations rendered; that is just not possible. Instead, the templates do attempt to make life relatively easy for editors by standardizing layout, providing consistency in the niggling details like punctuation, abbreviations, etc. so that editors don't have to worry about such minutia. The formats applied by the templates are very much in keeping with published style guides like The Chicago Manual of Style, APA Style, and the like. The trade-off is that editors cannot do as they please (If I could figure out how to make that happen, I wouldn't be doing it for free here on Wikipedia but would be sitting in my counting house, counting all my money).

The documentation for all of the templates discourages extraneous text because that text becomes part of the citation's metadata which can be confusing to the tools that consume it.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:40, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

I lifted this citation from your sandbox:

{{Citation | title = The White Collar Line | type = reprinted from Skamania Pioneer | url = http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn97071110/1903-02-06/ed-1/seq-3/ | newspaper = Hood River Glacier | publication-place = | volume = 14 | issue = 38 | publication-date = Feb 6, 1903 | page = p.3, col.1 | editor1-last = Blythe | editor1-first = S.F. | publisher = | nopp = yes}}

Blythe, S.F., ed. (Feb 6, 1903), "The White Collar Line", Hood River Glacier (reprinted from Skamania Pioneer), vol. 14, no. 38, p.3, col.1 {{citation}}: |page= has extra text (help); Unknown parameter |nopp= ignored (|no-pp= suggested) (help)

Here, I've changed the template to {{cite news}}, removed 'p.' from |page=, removed |nopp=yes, and added |mode=cs2:

{{Cite news | title = The White Collar Line | type = reprinted from Skamania Pioneer | url = http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn97071110/1903-02-06/ed-1/seq-3/ | newspaper = Hood River Glacier | publication-place = | volume = 14 | issue = 38 | publication-date = Feb 6, 1903 | page = 3, col.1 | editor1-last = Blythe | editor1-first = S.F. | publisher = |mode=cs2 }}

Blythe, S.F., ed. (Feb 6, 1903), "The White Collar Line", Hood River Glacier (reprinted from Skamania Pioneer), vol. 14, no. 38, p. 3, col.1

The only differences between the two rendered versions are that there is now a   between 'p.' and '3', and Module:Citation/CS1 is not complaining about extra text in |page=.

If you have not done so already, you might want to turn on full error message display. See Controlling error message display.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:40, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Baha'i News

Hi, about [6] in my early days I used journal, and then occasionally various, but I now believe "newspaper" may be the best single category. --Smkolins (talk) 20:02, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Also originally Baha'i News was available from one website but it was taken down and then eventually come up on another website (that actually can give a url to the page.) So there are articles in various states for the url of the newspaper. I've not managed to clean them all up (sigh).--Smkolins (talk) 20:04, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

I don't know anything about Bahá'í News except what I read in the Wikipedia article about it. The information there describes it as a magazine so that determined how my AWB script would treat those {{cite journal}} templates that have |journal=Bahá'í News.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:11, 1 January 2016 (UTC)