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The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) SSTflyer 02:00, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Lew Childre

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Known only as the founder of the already deleted non notable Heartmath Institute. Fails WP:ANYBIO. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:52, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as not all convincing any applicable notability. SwisterTwister talk 06:57, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Doc Childre is the WP:AUTHOR of many books[1] that have received book reviews in reliable sources, per WP:AUTHOR #3 "The person has created .. a well-known work, or collective body of work, that has been the subject of .. multiple independent periodical articles or reviews."

Review in Journal of Holistic Healthcare, University of Westminster
Saletnik, Laurie. "Freeze Frame." AORN Journal Feb. 2001: 519. Review of book Freeze Frame (1998)
"The HeartMath Solution." Publishers Weekly 5 Apr. 1999: 236. Book review of same.
Marandino, Cristin. "And the Beat Goes On." Vegetarian Times Feb. 1999: 15. Review of Freeze Frame
Cryer, Bruce. Leadership Excellence. Sep2007, Vol. 24 Issue 9, p13-13. Abstract: "The author cites the stress management program of HeartMath, a company founded by Doc Childre"
Nina Utne. Utne. Sep/Oct2005, Issue 131, p28-28. 1/8p. 1 Color Photograph. Reviews the book "Transforming Stress"

Other Sources NewsBank shows 34 newspaper articles. Most of them are mentions of Childre's books and/or think tank though not dedicated reviews. A couple examples:

Gracie Bonds Staples. "Living with your choices Course of action", The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, October 30, 2010. Quote: "Doc Childre, the internationally renowned stress expert, said.."
Portia Berrey, "The heart has its own brain.literally." Denver Examiner, September 21, 2009. Summarizes Childre's position on the "brain in the heart".
Media sources at the HearthMath website has 100s of "in the media" sources archived (I have not looked through them for reliable sources about ChildreP).

-- GreenC 13:59, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete His books are published by "Planetary Publications" which is Heartmath Institute. Therefore, his books are all self-published. They are held in very few libraries (from 5-99 copies is what I found). The only reliable review source that I can see is Publisher's weekly, which is not enough to give him notability as an author. In terms of GNG, I didn't find anything in the searches that I did to support that. LaMona (talk) 23:27, 7 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia has articles about self-published authors, there's no guideline against self-published books or authors, only the sources about such books and authors. There is no guideline about library holdings. For an extensive list of sources see my post above. They are not all freely online, but they are all available online, in commercial databases, which are accessible through WP:REX. -- GreenC 00:31, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - while there have a been a few reviews of his books, they have not been in major, reliable sources, except for Utne Reader, which does not mean significant coverage. I don't see how the subject passes WP:AUTHOR, much less WP:GNG. Bearian (talk) 17:22, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Publishers Weekly, AORN Journal, Vegetarian Times, Leadership Excellence, the Journal of Holistic Healthcare at the University of Westminster are used throughout Wikipedia oddly being discounted as "unreliable".-- GreenC 18:13, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Only one reliable source, does not pass WP:GNG. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom29739 (talk • contribs)

AORN Journal is a peer reviewed academic journal, to call it unreliable would require justification. Journal of Holistic Healthcare at the University of Westminster same situation. Publishers Weekly is one of the countries largest review magazines we use it all the time on Wikipedia. Vegetarian Times looks reliable but we can discuss if you have reason to think not. Leadership Excellence is held in some university libraries[2] and around for over a decade print publication I see no reason why it's unreliable. Atlantic Journal, Denver Examiner look reliable to me. Once we get past these we can five into the 100+ other sources here. -- GreenC 00:58, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. With due respect to all the delete !votes, I have to agree with Green Cardamom here: there are multiple reviews of his work in reliable sources, which is what we require for author notability. In addition to his written work, note this 1992 Los Angeles Times article reporting that his Heart Zones stress-reduction tape "recently landed on the top 25 'Adult Alternative' list in Billboard magazine six weeks after its release. This is believed to be the first "therapeutic" tape to make the chart." And a March 20, 1993 page from Billboard shows that this album had been on the New Age chart for 49 weeks. The article has a checkered history, and we must continue to be careful not to allow unsupported assertions about Childre's work, but I think there's enough here to establish the subject's notability. --Arxiloxos (talk) 01:17, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The consensus is that she does not currently meet the notability criteria PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 15:26, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Meggie Royer

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WP:TOOSOON author. WP:BEFORE comes up with no significant refs. National award mentioned in article was for a prize awarded to high-school students. Fails WP:GNG. HappyValleyEditor (talk) 06:46, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as nothing at all convincing, too soon. SwisterTwister talk 07:00, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep She has already won an important national award.--Ipigott (talk) 09:38, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Either TOOSOON or BLP1E. The award that she won is one that is given to 2000 entrants each year, so although it is an honor, it is not the same as being a single winner. here. I did find her award-winning works here. LaMona (talk) 18:21, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, Royer's poetry has appeared/ she is listed as a contributor in/to numerous magazines/journals (not sure how notable they are - none have wikiarticles) ie. (in addition to those mentioned in the article) [3] Cleaver Magazine, [4] Open Minds Quarterly, [5] Grey Sparrow Journal, [6], Phree Write Magazine [7], The James Franco Review [8], Red Rose Review [9], Crack The Spine Literary Magazine [10], Vine Leaves Literary Journal. However, this does not count towards notability, according to WP:POETRY the subject needs to meet WP:GNG, WP:ANYBIO, or WP:CREATIVE, ie. "created .. a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews.", having the work(s) appear in magazines is not enough. Coolabahapple (talk) 17:15, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Coolabahapple, I'm not sure what you are saying in the last sentence of your comment-- the phrasing is unclear with the quote. In any case, the links you give are for publications of her work rather than "multiple independent periodical articles or reviews" about her work, which is what is needed. HappyValleyEditor (talk) 03:49, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Now I get what you are saying. How are you voting? You seem to be saying that sources are weak.HappyValleyEditor (talk) 03:51, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi HappyValleyEditor, as afd is not a vote, occasionally (very occasionally

) i only comment. Coolabahapple (talk) 05:00, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And I, for one, always appreciate your comments. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:36, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Simply does not pass WP:GNG as revealed in searches, and does not appear to pass WP:CREATIVE. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:36, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. MBisanz ^talk 00:54, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Chandra Kant Jaisansaria

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Non-notable author. Has published two books, one of them on the Notion Press "self-publishing company". Three of four refs in article are for the same interview that is not a WP:RS. Does not meet WP:BKCRIT or WP:AUTHOR. Article creator started with "book was self-published" but then said it wasn't in subsequent edit. Click here for the author listing at Notion press, and on "packages" to see how much it costs to publish your own book there. I'm starting to think "Notion Press" should be added to an edit filter somewhere. HappyValleyEditor (talk) 05:53, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as not yet better for WP:CREATIVE. SwisterTwister talk 07:01, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete One book is self-published, the other is a collection of stories that he solicited from others. None of the references are reviews (they are all interviews; one may be a "self-interview" based on the tone of the web site). I didn't find anything else, but I assume that references will only be found in Indian sources. If someone has access to those and finds good sources, I can reconsider. LaMona (talk) 23:38, 7 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. MBisanz ^talk 00:54, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Austin (poet)

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Non-notable person. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 04:58, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as nothing imaginably better including for WP:CREATIVE. SwisterTwister talk 07:05, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak delete I hate to lose this since there undoubtedly are not many Cherokee poets who write in German listed in Wikipedia, but the only things I could find were two references in German books that don't seem to say much about him: here and here. The latter is a poem of his, so it's not a primary reference. We'd need access to more German sources, I believe. LaMona (talk) 23:49, 7 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. including the possibility that this is a hoax. —SpacemanSpiff 08:56, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bhabhipedia the film

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This appears to be an as yet non-notable unreleased film. This seems to be a case of WP:TOOSOON. LadyofShalott 04:45, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete at best for now and wait for better as nothing is convincing. SwisterTwister talk 07:05, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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in looking more:

per NCF:(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

director:(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

studio:(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

star:(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

actor:(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

WP:INDAFD: Bhabhipedia Saumyy Shivhare Bizarre Media Nitin Sharma Hrishitaa Bhatt Gireesh Sahedev Rajkumar Kanojia

Delete per failing WP:NF. I gave the article a face-lift, and while it may well be completed and awaiting release, It has no coverage in reliable sources. If it ever gets coverage, the article can always be resurrected. Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 15:47, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I note that Bhabhipedia was previously deleted as a blatant hoax. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:58, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Nakon 01:55, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

United Telecoms Limited

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Fails WP:ORGDEPTH and WP:ORGIND AM (talk) 03:36, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - as per nom. I'm glad to hear that they beat out some other companies, but that's not enough to justify an article. Furthermore, I was unable to find sufficient sources. GAB^Hello! 22:23, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - found some coverage (more available, will bring it here at a later time) [11], [12], [13] etc. Passes WP:GNG. Regards—UY Scuti ^Talk 18:44, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep useful stub, additional rs source.[14] 009o9^Disclosure(Talk) 07:03, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Draft instead for now as the current article is still questionable for solid improvements and I'm currently not entirely convinced by the listed sources. We can wait for a better article, SwisterTwister talk 00:23, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per UY Scuti. There is enough comprehensive coverage here to meet WP:ORG and WP:ORGDEPTH. There are a wide variety of reliable sources to establish notability. Chrisw80 (talk) 07:37, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. No consensus for a particular action has emerged in this discussion. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:55, 29 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

AOA Black

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Not notable for a separate article as they have only one release with the information covered in the history section of the article AOA. Rockysmile11^(talk) 03:16, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. They only have one release so far and there isn't enough information for a separate article. This isn't like Girls' Generation-TTS, who have multiple very successful releases. Random86 (talk) 03:46, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as nothing suggesting better for the necessary notability improvements. SwisterTwister talk 07:07, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I think that this article have to keep. AOA is famous in korea and also famous k-pop singer. so each member of AOA has notability for Wikipedia. it is also AOA unit : AOA Black, AOA Cream, and AOA White.--Berlinuno (talk) 00:33, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Berlinuno, notability is not inherited. That's why Youkyung and Chanmi don't have articles, even though they are members of AOA. Random86 (talk) 01:32, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It is stated in Wikipedia:Notability (music) that a band needs to have a single or album on any country's national music chart. With their debut single, Moya, hitting the Gaon Music Chart and Korea K-Pop Hot 100, they're worthy enough to be called "notable" and have their own article.Igetitcrackinlikebagbag (talk) 13:23, 6 May,2016 (UTC)

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Merge with parent group AOA article. This subgroup doesn't appear notable enough to warrant a page on its own, and like its "sister" subgroup AOA Cream, it would benefit the reader more if they weren't looking through 3 different pages about what is essentially the same group of musicians. DeviantAttitude (talk) 22:28, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with only one release, and no talk of a future one, it not only seems unnecessary to give aoablack a separate article, but it also seems like people will just forget the sub unit ever existed if it's not put on the group's main page.Peachywink (talk) 05:29, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Reluctantly re-listing this for a third time: further debate would be beneficial for this AfD discussion. st170e^talk 17:37, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Reluctantly Keep. The most sensible thing is to merge all "sub-units" on the same page. But it would be inconsistent to leave the other one and delete this one, if they had a single on the charts. Someone could go ahead and merge them all, after this discussion closes, though it will probably get reverted by whomever it is that's being paid to promote them. How many times can a band have a "comeback" in one year? What is a "single album"? I don't get it. -- IamNotU (talk) 19:02, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

IamNotU, I doubt anyone is being paid here. The page creator is a K-pop fan who has created many articles, some on non-notable topics, and all unreferenced. A single album is a CD single and all promoted releases are called comebacks in South Korea. Random86 (talk) 21:57, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. The K-pop industry is a legendary promotional machine, and I'd be surprised if they didn't have some paid editors on here. But I don't have any evidence that any are involved in this article, so it probably wasn't an appropriate comment. Some of the language in the AOA articles does sound a little promotional and advertising-like though. I supposed it's to be expected, given the subject. -- IamNotU (talk) 14:59, 24 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Igetitcrackinlikebagbag comment. Donottroll (talk) 19:38, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Merge, per previous comments. I don't think AOA Cream merits its own article either; they're essentially one-single project groups. Yannaynay (talk) 21:47, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. J04n(talk page) 12:45, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Button Gwinnett (band)

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The band, their sole album, their sole single, and their record label have no external references online (other than those using this article as a base). The only two sources used in the article are two out-of-print music compendiums. The article includes a purported cover of the album, which was modified from https://www.flickr.com/photos/52844469@N05/4898777348. Martey (talk) 02:50, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Since notability is not temporary, the fact that the available sources are out of print has no bearing on these proceedings. However...I have a copy of the Martin Strong discography right here in front of me, and Button Gwinnett doesn't even have an entry in the book. I'd feel more comfortable if someone had the opportunity to check on the Larkin reference (it's not readily available at my local library), but we may have a hoax on our hands. Chubbles (talk) 03:27, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as my searches found nothing better. SwisterTwister talk 07:18, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Comment~~Delete: If it couldn't be found by a search engine, then it probably does not exist. Search only returned a 18th century statesman and something with a computer game. However, do note that infobox including album art are added by another editor 3 days after the last edit by article creator. I'm going to request a CheckUser here. JW Noctis^{talk to me} 15:01, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And request sent. JW Noctis^{talk to me} 15:32, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing much would be coming that way - Pending more evidence pointing towards notability, I'd say if it couldn't be found by several good search engines, it probably does not exist. JW Noctis^{talk to me} 02:01, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I can't find any online sources apart from [15], which is a very passing mention on the obituary of someone not mentioned in the article. I can't find anything for the quoted record label either. I think that even if the refs given are valid, they are not quite enough to assert notability. — crh ₂₃ (Talk) 15:45, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Article's subject lacks notability. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 06:53, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oontini

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TV show with questionable notability, the cast that was deleted for the most part were made by separate single purpose accounts (one page said "age 11, writer of a tv show" that alone sounded fake.) anyway, I can't find any info about this (apparently only one episode aired) And I'm not even sure if this is real or not! Wgolf (talk) 02:20, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I should add, that these 2 other shows are in question made by the same person: Munkareen-e-Haq and Raajkumari, both of there refs are just for the channels, not anything about the shows at all. Wgolf (talk) 02:27, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as nothing at all minimally convincing, delete for now. SwisterTwister talk 07:17, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - No sources whatsoever found (although there may conceivably be some in Urdu). GAB^Hello! 22:17, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment-BTW can someone check out the other shows I mentioned? They might need a AFD also. Wgolf (talk) 22:52, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. — ξ ^xplicit 03:51, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Chart performance of K-pop

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I don't really understand the scope and purpose of this article. It seems redundant to other existing articles, including List of K-pop on the Billboard charts and List of Oricon number-one albums. Random86 (talk) 02:18, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - a list of a list of compilations of a single genre. Bearian (talk) 20:14, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - for the reason stated above. There is no clear reason behind the article, especially when there are other pages (as noted by the nominator) that cover the same ideas. Aoba47 (talk) 23:14, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. MBisanz ^talk 11:00, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Karen Sparks

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Fails WP:BIO. Little coverage in reliable sources. Several sources cited don't even mention this person, and of those which do it's by name only, or one sentence. No significant awards or honours. Does not appear to have made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in her field. Also fails WP:NEQUESTRIAN. Magnolia677 (talk) 02:07, 24 April 2016 (UTC) Magnolia677 (talk) 02:07, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - the reappearance of this article (see Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Karen_Sparks ) appears to be based on Sparks recently receiving a "40 under 40 award" from the Ottawa Business Journal, given to "accomplished business leaders who are under the age of 40" in Ottawa. At least 680 people have received this award over the years, and this year, out of the 160 applicants, one in four received the award. While I applaud Mrs. Sparks for the achievement, I'm afraid the basic requirement of "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject" has still not been met. I wasn't able to find a single example via Google, and out of the 22 references in the article, only two were specifically about her. Both were published by Equine Canada; the second of which was announcement of her appointment to their board of directors. My main concern though, is that the article's (re)creator Beaverbrookottawa (contribs) may have an undisclosed conflict of interest with regards to Sparks. This warrants further review of edits to multiple Wikipedia articles about her immediate family and their business interests, which may be primarily promotional in nature. IamNotU (talk) 05:41, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as not currently convincing for notably better. SwisterTwister talk 07:16, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: meets WP:GNG per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. comment added by The.sparrowhawk (talk • contribs) 18:44, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: The.sparrowhawk and article creator Beaverbrookottawa have been blocked as sockpuppets of Andy.w.sparks. -- IamNotU (talk) 11:14, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: to be fair, I thought I should point out a reference that was slipped into the article under the wire, before the user was blocked: [16] - an interview published in "Faces Ottawa" a free magazine with a circulation of 100,000 in Ottawa; and another reference to the magazine having named her "Entrepreneur of the Year for 2015": [17] I don't know about significant, reliable, and independent though, particularly considering the full-page ad from one "Andy Sparks Realty" on page 47 of the same issue, and the back cover ad from her father's Brookstreet Hotel (Wikipedia article created by Andy.w.sparks) on the previous issue, plus Brookstreet being one of the sponsors of the 2016 awards: [18]. Oh, billionaires... -- IamNotU (talk) 19:18, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Music1201 ^talk 02:14, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete:. Fails BIO for lack of "significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject"; there is really only one source given, it isn't known to be reliable, and does not appear independent. Being the director of a barely notable equestrian park isn't notable by itself anyway. --A D Monroe III (talk) 17:47, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete I agree with all of above arguements for deletion. Not notable. ツStacey (talk) 17:05, 4 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. None of this constitutes a strongly credible reason why a person would warrant coverage in an encyclopedia — and the referencing is about half primary sources and half media coverage which namechecks her existence but isn't about her, which isn't how you get a person over WP:GNG. It's not impossible for people of purely local notability to get into Wikipedia, but it takes a lot more sourcing and substance than this. Bearcat (talk) 02:52, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. The arguments for keeping are both the majority position and better argued. Michig (talk) 07:07, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

M. S. Ramaiah

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Queried speedy delete as advertisement Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:26, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep. The page needs heavy copy editing to make it according to Wikipedia standards however person was very notable. Mr RD 17:59, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Endorse the argument above by @Mr RD:. AusLondonder (talk) 01:35, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Draft at best because this is still noticeably unsourced and would need better improvements, none of which I see happening. SwisterTwister talk 07:16, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 04:20, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, SSTflyer 01:04, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:TNT. This has clearly not been written on the basis of what reliable sources say about the subject and would need a complete rewrite to become compliant with our sourcing and verifiability policies. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:16, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Omni Flames ^{let's talk about it} 04:49, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I'm relisting this again, as it still hasn't had a lot of attention. Last relist. Omni Flames ^{let's talk about it} 01:42, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Omni Flames ^{let's talk about it} 01:42, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As the nominator for deletion of this article stated for their doing so was speedy delete as advertisement, I’m not sure where to begin other than stating the fact that this articles subject has gained sufficiently significant attention by the world at large and over a period of time. And without this deletion nomination pointing exactly towards what material is being challenged, or likely to be challenged,, again, it’s hard to know where to start for an article that has existed for 7 years and now finds itself here.. Anyway, I’ve rewritten the lead for this article adding references (and added the reference section to contain them) and believe that it should be remembered by everyone that the bar for providing actual citations for deceased people is lower than that required for those who are living. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 10:33, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note This articles subject has been linked to the Oregon State University and List of Indian entrepreneurs articles. Picomtn (talk) 12:57, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note Hi @Omni Flames:@Anthony Appleyard:@AusLondonder:@Sportsfan 1234:@David Eppstein: (cc @Titodutta:@MichaelQSchmidt:@Checkingfax:) Please note that there are unique issues dealing with this articles subject matter that that is referenced in Wikipedia:Points to note while debating in WikiProject India related AFDs that should be a part of this discussion. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 20:06, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And through WP:INDAFD: M. S. Ramaiah Dr. M. S. Ramaiah

Keep and encourage imrovements through regular editing. I find the wide and in-depth coverage of this man and his works meets WP:N and WP:BIO, and as he passed in 1997, it is not a BLP issue, just one for editorial attention, not deletion. Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 20:28, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep: I agree with the views of Mr RD and MichaelQSchmidt, but the article will need a lot of work to change the highly positive (and nearly promotional) tone to a neutral view on the subject. ~~A heads up, Earwig's copyvio detector detected close paraphrasing to this site [19]; this content seems to have been added by Webmaster.cg, and might be a major copyvio.~~ Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 02:19, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- That phrasing has been here since 2013 and the spammy blog link is dated 2015. So I think the copying went the other way. —David Eppstein (talk) 04:10, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks for the clarification. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 04:13, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Exactly what Schmidt has said. Passes GNG, I think. --Tito Dutta (talk) 05:49, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Debate has been relisted three times and still there seems to be no consensus for any outcomes. (non-admin closure) Omni Flames ^{let's talk about it} 09:31, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Corina Abraham

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This is more a coatrack to talk about Roe 8 than it is a BLP. Not notable. Abraham herself lacks coverage about her in multiple independent reliable sources. duffbeerforme (talk) 07:25, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep referred to in the Australian Parliament as significant person(Whadjuk Noongar Custodian), involved in multiple events over multiple years, artist with works within a government collection. Currently challenging the WA Government in the States highest court which has potential flow on implications to Federal Government. Yes it has Roe 8 information but thats because Roe 8 is complex and significant, Abraham easily meets WP:N. There are also a number of article from Melville Herald from 2010 but those arent online I need to find time access their archives in person. and the Koori Mail in 2001[20]. This is what happens when AfD s get launched within an articles first 24 hours, if aint a prod give content creators time or even ask them a question as to the articles status I would have happily laid out that I have multiple sourcing for over 15 years that indicate this is a notable person, but given the coverage of Roe 8 (229,000 news articles so far [21]) and the fact she has lodged writs it seamed logical to push the article out so that people could find out more about this person before I had been able to organise access to the other sources. Gnan garra 09:01, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Being referred to as "significant" in such a manner is meaningless in terms of notability. "artist with works within a government collection". Which one? City of Melville's art collection? Whoopty fuckin doo. Koori Mail? All is see is a photo with lots of people who attended a conference. Trivial coverage. Melville Herald? A local paper. Whats the nature of the coverage? Given the coverage of Roe 8 let's write an article on not Roe 8? She's not the issue, Roe 8 is. duffbeerforme (talk) 10:24, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Notability going back before Roe 8, passes WP:GNG quite comfortably. The Drover's Wife (talk) 09:46, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Where's the notability prior to Roe 8? How does she pass GNG? duffbeerforme (talk) 10:24, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as a writ submitter over a complex issue in the public eye in Perth, with earlierreporting Melville Herald and Koori Mail as stated by Gnangarra, it is just a short matter of time that extra refs will clearly further indicate notability of the person against the afd argument JarrahTree 10:16, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Being a writ submitter is not Inherently notable. duffbeerforme (talk) 10:24, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, but significantly trim "Corina Abraham#Opposition to Roe 8". See Talk:Corina Abraham#Proposal to trim Opposition to Roe 8 for my proposal. (For what it's worth I wrote the bulk of "Proposal to trim Opposition to Roe 8" yesterday, before the AfD, and only posted it today.) Mitch Ames (talk) 11:52, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why keep? WP:JUSTAVOTE. duffbeerforme (talk) 10:24, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I believe Corina Abraham is notable, and meets WP:GNG.
Your claim of "coatrack" is understandable, but I don't think it's correct. I do think that the Roe 8 section looks like a WP:SOAPBOX, but that's a surmountable problem and I've already proposed a solution. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:19, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Your proposed solution would solve the BLP1E issue but does nothing to address the lack of notability demonstrated by the article. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. notability passes requirements. VanEman (talk) 16:27, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ITSNOTABLE. duffbeerforme (talk) 10:24, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, plenty of source coverage, including at Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL. — Cirt (talk) 20:43, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

comment suggest a WP:SNOW close before the nominator does something that should be avoided Gnan garra 00:41, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What, like accuse someone of racism? Oh, wait, it was you that did that. duffbeerforme (talk) 10:14, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I didnt accuse you of being racist, I said your actions in nominating multiple Noongar Women had a point appearance given you had prod'd an article that I then converted to merge discussion that triggered your nominations and that you should also take care when doing such multiple nomination. Then you come along and respond to every person all of whom said keep, with comments like Whoopty fuckin doo Gnan garra 04:19, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You've characterized my actions as being racial motivated. then you try to suppress discussion on an article you worked on. and your concerned that I wrote fuck? Why were you keen to suppress discussion? You say I replied to all with comments like Whoopty fuckin doo, please identify some such replies (note plural). duffbeerforme (talk) 10:49, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

For those saying she passes GNG and that there is plenty of sources. Could you please be specific? What sources? What significant coverage outside of Roe 8? duffbeerforme (talk) 10:16, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete If she has been notable for some time, why did it take until 2 April for an article to be created, an article whose entire lead is Corina Abraham is a Whadjuk Noongar elder who in 2016 challenged the Western Australian Government for failure in procedural fairness during its change to the Aboriginal Heritage status of the land to be impacted by the extension to Roe Highway known as Roe 8.? That seriously smacks of WP:BLP1E and supports the nom's argument that this is coatrack, as does the fact that there is nothing in the article establishing notability outside of the one event. Most of the article (and obviously all of the lead) speaks about opposition to Roe 8, with the woman's backstory added as an attempt to unsuccessfully establish notability. Looking at the 8 references, 6 are related to the Roe 8 issue. A 7th is an extract from a list of items in the City of Melville Art Collection. That alone does not generate notability. The 8th is a news piece about a major water leak in a hospital that used Abraham's story to pad out the article. Interesting to some, but not enough to establish notability. Sorry, no WP:SNOW close here. Notability needs to be adequately established, because it hasn't been yet. If notability can be properly established, I'd be happy to change my vote. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:41, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
delete definite case of WP:BLP1E. she is only getting coverage because of one issue. LibStar (talk) 06:02, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Userfy: I can appreciate the arguments about BLP1E. On the other hand, if Wikipedia existed in the 1980s we would've called Eddie Mabo a BLP1E back then too. So I suggest we move it to draft or user space and wait for further developments. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 07:05, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep subject is notable with plenty of refs. Hughesdarren (talk) 21:40, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Having "plenty of refs" doesn't mean a subject is notable. Six of the refs refer to one event and the other two don't go anywhere near establishing notability. An article can have 1,000 references and still not meet GNG. --AussieLegend (✉) 04:39, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

well said aussie. Lots of coverage doesn't override WP:BLP1E. LibStar (talk) 08:35, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Roe 8 and create that article, keeping a good summary of who this person is and her role in it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:36, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

While I don't necessarily disagree with this proposal I'm not sure how this would work. According to Perth Freight Link#Roe 8, Roe 8 is a 5km extension to the Roe Highway while Roe Highway says that Roe 8 is The Perth Freight Link, which is a bit circular. One would expect that if the extension goes ahead, Roe 8 would cease to exist as it would just become that extra bit of the Roe Highway, or the Perth Freight Link, or both. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:40, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as the article is questionable for better signs of solid independent notability and I'm not confident with any better improvements. SwisterTwister talk 01:53, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete in its current state. An article about Roe 8 may be notable. SSTflyer 13:19, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - outside the one issue (for which BLP1E would apply), searches turned up virtually no in-depth coverage to show they pass WP:GNG. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 12:30, 13 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per extensive coverage in the sources. BLP1E does not apply per reasons including her artistic work in 1997, coverage in the Melville Herald (2010) and Koori Mail (2001) , all well before Roe 8 kicked off. FeydHuxtable (talk) 21:42, 13 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The coverage in the sources is not even close to extensive, and they certainly weren't enough to result in an article until Roe 8 came along. --AussieLegend (✉) 14:01, 14 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

FeydHuxtable, could you look again at the Koori Mail source? Count the number of words of coverage dedicated to her then tell us how that qualifies as extensive. duffbeerforme (talk) 10:51, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. BLP1E does apply: her artistic work is trivial, her persona story of the hospitalization is wildly inappropriate content. It is not clear from the article whether she is the principal figure in the opposition, or the person in whose name the opposition is taking court action. I redirect to hte article section on the opposition to the road might be appropriate, at least now. DGG ( talk ) 04:33, 14 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Omni Flames ^{let's talk about it} 22:20, 14 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, BLP1E over a relatively minor issue, no international coverage. Aeonx (talk) 10:43, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

- World Highways has coverage[22] thats a UK based magazine it even mentions Corina Abraham in regards to activity in December 2015, the writ was lodged in March 2016. Then there is the International Business times based in New York[23](noting it doesnt mention Abrahams by name just the specifics of her case), that has 13 million subscribers publishes in 10 countries and 7 languages Gnan garra 13:02, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

noting it doesnt mention Abrahams by name just the specifics of her case that's laughable. If a source can't even name the subject, that's not really a good source for establishing notability of someone. LibStar (talk) 13:16, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

two sources the first mentions Abrahams, 3 months before the writs Gnan garra 13:42, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WP:GNG requires significant coverage in sources. It says "'Significant coverage' addresses the topic directly and in detail." The first source doesn't provide anything close to significant coverage and the second doesn't address the topic (Abraham) at all, let alone directly. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:58, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: There are enough sources. Articles related to rights of Indigenous people are often difficult to source due to being ignored by the press in general. Adequate indicia of notability and though concerns of BIO1E or recentism are apparently made in good faith, the topic passes. If someone wanted to create Roe 8 and merge this into it, I suppose that's not beyond the pale, but I don't think it is needed. Montanabw ^(talk) 22:28, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It has already been established that the quantity of sources is irrelevant. Six of the 8 sources are related to the Roe 8/BLP1E issue. A 7th is an extract from a directory of items in an art collection and the 8th is a news piece about a major water leak in a hospital that used Abraham's story to pad out the article. WP:GNG requires significant coverage and that simply isn't there once you remove the BLP1E content. As a standalone subject, Roe 8 hasn't been notable enough to warrant creation of its own article. It is, after all, just opposition to a 5km road extension and these things happen all the time. A non-notable event can't be used to establish an individual's notability. --AussieLegend (✉) 06:41, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Everything to do with all of the Roe highway extension plans are linked with a particularly messy aspect of current Western Australian politics and is almost reported on daily basis in Perth, Western Australia in relation to the component parts of moving trucks from the eastern suburbs into Fremantle. Just because local editors are not full time producing potential on the subject is not necessarily a reflection on the impact of the issues being squeezed into an assumed 'non-notability' state JarrahTree 06:57, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note that Roe 8 not having a standalone article isn't because of notability, but because it would be a redundant content fork, given that Roe 8 is covered in the Perth Freight Link article. - Evad37 [talk] 08:28, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You might note that I said "As a standalone subject, Roe 8 hasn't been notable enough to warrant creation of its own article." (emphasis added) If the opposition was great enough, and there were enough sources, there is nothing stopping a separate article being created. Roe 8 coverage in both Perth Freight Link an Roe Highway is pretty limited, but quite appropriate given my knowledge of the matter (my daughter is in Perth for nine months and she has been keeping me up to date) so I do agree it would be a redundant content fork to create a separate article and you can't claim an individual is notable because they oppose something that isn't notable enough to warrant a separate article. -_AussieLegend (✉) 11:11, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Roe 8 has been an ongoing issue for over twenty years, because someone related to you has lived in Perth for nine months doesnt make them an expert on Perth, or Roe 8. Gnan garra 11:54, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't say, nor did I imply, that it did make them an expert. Please note that here in the east we have controversial road projects going on for a lot longer than 20 years. The Newcastle Inner City Bypass, for example, still isn't complete even after 50 years of planning and construction. That Roe 8 has been going on for so long makes Abraham's contribution even less significant. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:54, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Claiming that because Roe 8 doesn't have an standalone article it therefore isn't notable is fallacious reasoning, given that notability isn't the only thing that determines whether something has a standalone article. Per WP:N "This [meets GNG or subject-specific guideline + not excluded under WP:NOT] is not a guarantee that a topic will necessarily be handled as a separate, stand-alone page. I haven't yet !voted, and am still on the fence about Corina Abraham, but arguments that "Foo isn't notable because it doesn't have a standalone Wikipedia article" just don't make sense. There are plenty of sources for Roe 8 (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL), and much room for expansion in the Perth Freight Link article, which is only start-class at the moment (we're all WP:VOLUNTEERs with WP:NODEADLINE, so not everything that could be written has been written). - Evad37 [talk] 15:08, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Claiming that because Roe 8 doesn't have an standalone article it therefore isn't notable - That's not what I said. You're concentrating far too much on the road and not the subject of this AfD. --AussieLegend (✉) 16:18, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you're the one who brought up Roe 8's notability in your comments of 06:41, 21 April 2016 (UTC). Is the notability or otherwise of Roe 8 really relevant here? - Evad37 [talk] 02:00, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's relevant insofar as it is being used to establish Abraham's notability. If the notability of an event has not been demonstrated (this is different to an event actually being notable - an event can be notable without its notability being demonstrated - a lot of articles end up deleted because of this) can we use opposition to that apparently non-notable event to establish notability? Remember, while Roe 8 might be notable in WA, the rest of the world doesn't even know it exists, so to us it's not notable as it hasn't been demonstrated in the article. --AussieLegend (✉) 08:57, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Can you show me a guideline or policy that says we need to consider notability as demonstrated in the article? Because as far as I am aware the usual interpretation, as stated in the WP:N guideline, is "Article content does not determine notability" and "Notability is based on the existence of suitable sources, not on the state of sourcing in an article". In any case, there are sources from beyond WA for Roe 8 such as constructionindustrynews.net, Construction Index (UK), The Guardian Australia edition (1) (2), Shanghai Daily, Lexology.com and heaps of coverage from our national broadcaster ABC[24] (and I recall TV coverage being on ABC News 24, not just the local version of the ABC TV news bulletin) - Evad37 [talk] 00:46, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment BLP!E doesnt apply because Corina Abrahams doesnt stem from the one event, she is also a Whadjuk Noongar Custodian, that makes her an authority on Noonagr traditions related to the region or equivalent to Chancellor at any Grey stone University, Supreme Court Justice, Queens Council or even a minister in any Government. Gnan garra 08:06, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Simply being a custodian, on its own, does not establish notability. WP:GNG requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". If we ignore the Roe 8 matter, the subject just does not meet notability requirements. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:11, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Merge. Only notable for one event, therefore should be placed under Roe Highway page. If not, then delete. If a person is only notable for one event, that person should not have their own wikipedia article, but instead be written in the event.EllsworthSchmittendorf (talk) 08:52, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment/Question The only significant coverage I can see is in relation to Roe 8. While others above have said her opposition to Roe 8 is a BLP1E, is it really one event, or one issue with multiple events? That is to say, there is coverage in relation to three things: the 2010 protest (Koori Mail), the letter read out in the senate in December 2015, and the Supreme Court writs (March 2016). While clearly related, is the whole lot one event, or is each thing a single event? - Evad37 [talk] 01:43, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

also being part of the Aboriginal Heritage assessment that resulted in the site being listed, Roe 8 has a long history as protection of the area, has been already we have a court case from Roe 8 that has impact beyond Roe 8 on the WA Government run by the Save the Beelier Wetlands group which is who Corina spoke for in 2010 6 years before this event. Then the letter addressed to the Prime Minister read into Parliament which is while not unique isnt common either. Now we have her a plaintiff in Supreme Court writ(highest court in WA to commence an action) which also will have impact on some 1600 other sites that the current WA Government has removed from the heritage register. Corinas involvement is not BLP1E because it is significant, her impact reaches beyond the event to other areas and when you look at the FSH aspect her being written about even if you want to describe it as padding for the story wouldnt have occured without her already being of note as a Noongar custodian and public figure, oh and whats not covered in the Fiona Stanley Hospital article is all the controversy related to that, the flooding was just one symptom of the failures in the management that project which had materialised in the first 12 months of it being completed. Gnan garra 06:07, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"whats not covered in the Fiona Stanley Hospital article is all the controversy related to that, the flooding was just one symptom of the failures in the management that project which had materialised in the first 12 months of it being completed. " — That may be true, but it is completely irrelevant to Abraham's notability. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:54, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

but it is relevent in the sense that Corina was affected by those events, it demostrates that she has a level of community recognition(notability) before/beyond the court case. Gnan garra 13:59, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Being reported in the news might be relevant to her notability, but the "controversy ... failures in the management [of FSH] ..." have no bearing on her notability, which is why I said that they were irrelevant to this discussion.

Actually I'm not so sure that the article adds to her notability - she was mentioned because she was in surgery at the time of the FSH flood, not because she was a notable Indigenous elder or Roe 8 opponent. The FSH article does not mention anything of those; it merely describes her as "A 38-year-old woman". Wikipedia:Notability#Events says "routine news coverage ... is not significant coverage". I know that is about events, not people, but the principle is the same - the news article is about FSH, not about Corina Abraham. If the Wikipedia article is kept, then the FSH item and ref is worth keeping (it's related to her health issues, which are notable if she is, and also covered by another ref), but I'm not so sure it actually attests to her notability. Mitch Ames (talk) 01:11, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'd argue that we don't need to keep any of the FSH content or the ref. There is already a ref that supports the claim about her health problems. The FSH issue is just being used to pad the article. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:03, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We're drifting off topic here. Perhaps we should defer discussion about the FSH content until if/after any decision to keep the article. (Similar to Talk:Corina Abraham#Proposal to trim Opposition to Roe 8. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:06, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Lots of refs does not equal notability, especially when most are about one event (and not the article subject). In addition, the article suffers from a disturbing amount of WP:OR and with the Roe 8 content removed, the article is mostly about her family and her medical issues (with references almost entirely from primary sources - interviews and her own writings). Chrisw80 (talk) 05:17, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There are obviously sensible alternatives to deletion which should be considered before turning this into a redlink. Andrew D. (talk) 10:41, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you could suggest something that is relevant to this. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:20, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, fails WP:BASIC. I see a lack of significant coverage and a large number of primary or non-independent sources. Ignoring the story about her time in hospital, which is obviously tangential to her notability, the only independent source specifically about Abraham is a profile piece in the Fremantle Herald, a free weekly community newspaper. The campaign against Roe 8 is certainly notable, and Abraham could (or even should) be mentioned in connection with it, but notability is not inherited. Obviously no prejudice against re-creation. IgnorantArmies (talk) 15:27, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Notability not established. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 06:53, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Francisco Montero

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Vanity page for a non-notable person. Article creator has but two edits: the one to create the article and another to link to it from a name page. Three of the four references are primary sources, fourth is trivial. Can't find any other coverage other than things like LinkedIn profile. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 01:00, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The creator of this article's username is "Fmontero1", I think there's a bias here. Also cannot find any sources besides things such as the law firm's page and his LinkedIn, I'd say Delete. I also looked for news articles, couldn't find any. Sheepythemouse (talk) 01:13, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as not currently convincing for his own notable article. SwisterTwister talk 07:15, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - notability is in doubt. and the subject most likely doesn't pass GNG. GAB^Hello! 22:38, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The consensus is that the converage of the award is not in sufficient depth to meet the criteria to indicate notability. PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 15:25, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Future for Nature

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I see no references except to its own web pages, and routine promotional articles and notices for people given the award. I note that not a single one of all of the winners are at this time considered notable at WP. DGG ( talk ) 23:12, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as my searches are unfortunately finding nothing better and the current article is still not convincing. SwisterTwister talk 04:59, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The given reason to delete is lack of sources, yet I found a few sources in only a few minutes of searching:
- NatGeo and numerous related articles.
- mnn.com

These seem to suggest that the award is much more important internationally, even "prestigious", which means that most of the coverage is probably in other languages and simply not all that notable in, say, the U.S. Not trying hard enough to find sources is not a good enough reason to delete. Also, whether the winners are notable by Wikipedia standards is a straw man argument: completely irrelevant. -- RM 20:28, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it's irrelevant whether any of the winners are notable. I don't think most winners of Macarthur Grants are notable, for isntances.

However, be careful about accusing others of "not trying hard enough to find sources". The two sources you provided aren't qualifying sources under WP:GNG. Each of them discusses a person who, it is mentioned, has won a Future for Nature award—and neither article says anything beyond that about Future for Nature. This isn't the required "significant coverage". —Largo Plazo (talk) 20:53, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I should be more specific with my objections. The reason given for deletion states: no references except the ones mentioned (emphasis added). NatGeo is reliable reference, even if you believe it to be non-significant coverage, it is still a reference. -- RM 22:42, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So, what would make an award / awarding organization notable? Fundraising coverage? or for giving the award (and why), since that is its raison d'etre. The source I cited does this: highlighting a recipient and going into detail as to what good things they've done to merit the award. Reliable sources on people who have received the award tells you the award is notable. The converse is not true: reliable sources about the award for non-notable people means the award, not the person, is notable. -- RM 22:32, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, NatGeo is a reliable source. A reliable source may support a finding of notability for a person to whom it gives substantial coverage. But it doesn't support a finding of notability for every single thing about the person to which it happens to make a passing reference. Given other reliable sources that give the person a comparable level of coverage to that received in the NatGeo article, it might support a finding that that person is notable. As for the award, the article merely mentions that it's a prize that this person has won, and then it never says another thing about it, and it says absolutely nothing about the organization awarding it. This helps with verifiability—few are likely to question the existence of the award—but not in the slightest with notability. (In case it helps clarify things, see the article on how notability is not inherited.)

See the general notability guidelines for information about what makes a topic notable. If you'd like, you can also look at the guidelines available for finding organizations to be notable. —Largo Plazo (talk) 00:42, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You cited WP:ORG, so let's start there. "The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources should be cited to establish notability". The coverage is not deep, that's obvious. But it's an award, how deep can it be? Expecting deep coverage is bordering on silly. It is, however, quite reasonable, required in fact, to expect multiple sources for the award. You can search the names of the winners (and guest of honors) along with the name of the award and you'll get quite a number of sources, almost every one of them in a different language. Once again, I bring back my original point: there are a lot of sources to be found, but this AfD isn't being raised because the sources are bad, but because there are not enough sources. This has not yet been established! Deletion is premature because we have not evaluated the existence or the reliability of these sources. I'll be happy to support a deletion if the sources turn out to be insufficient, but simple searches indicate enough basic coverage that deletion is not automatic. -- RM 01:44, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A passing reference isn't coverage at all. It's just that—a passing reference. You might find a thousand people who claim in their CVs "Won Award X", and 100 might have articles written about them that include a mention of Award X among their achievements, just because it was on their CVs, and it still won't be coverage of Award X.

Do you mean "passing reference" as in "trival mention" in WP:NOTE? If so, the mention of the award is not trivial and it is not required to be the main topic. And WP:SELFPUBLISH does not apply here. -- RM 02:00, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You say that "deletion is premature because we have not evaluated the existence or reliability of these sources". That's what this process is for. This is the period during which interested parties are asked to produce evidence of applicable coverage, once the initiating editor has expressed his doubts. If satisfactory coverage hasn't been demonstrated by the end of the discussion period, then the article will probably be deleted. If "there may be qualifying coverage that we just haven't found yet" were a valid argument in favor of keeping an article, then no article would be deleted the grounds of a lack of notability, ever. —Largo Plazo (talk) 01:52, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's not about being unable to find sources, there are plenty. I've found over a dozen references ~~in other languages~~. And they appear to support notability, to the best of my ability to determine this. If interested parties can assist, I can change my mind. -- RM 02:09, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

But you're keeping them a secret. Awesome strategy. —Largo Plazo (talk) 11:26, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. -- RM 13:24, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, let's dive in:
- [25], [26], [27], [28], [29], [30], [31], [32], [33], [34], [35], [36], [37], [38], [39], [40], [41], [42], [43], [44], [45], [46], [47], [48], [49]

I didn't try to filter out the good and bad here. These are mostly quick google news results. Running a standard google search on each subject would take quite a while. -- RM 13:24, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So you have no idea whether any of these supports a finding of notability. I'm not saying that they don't, but your approach to this remains a bit oblivious. You seem to think that it's up to other people to do the work to support your claims. —Largo Plazo (talk) 13:35, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It is perfectly acceptable to choose to keep if the reason given for deletion is invalid. DGG did not state a policy reason for deletion, so I objected to that. There may be other reasons to delete, and that's fine. That's why it's a discussion. As for this list, I only ran the search a few minutes ago per your request. (It turns out I was wrong about my estimate on the number of sources. Memory is unreliable.). I already felt that the NatGeo source supported notability and gave my rationale for it. It's OK that you disagree. -- RM 13:50, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ORG disagrees with you. "Acceptable sources under this criterion include all types of reliable sources except works carrying merely trivial coverage, such as: ... passing mention, such as identifying a quoted person as working for an organization." Identifying a person as having won an award is comparable. It's quite clear from this what's meant by "passing mention". It isn't clear, if you think the mention in NatGeo was more than a passing one, what you imagine even less of a mention would consist of. —Largo Plazo (talk) 15:29, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

this is a passing reference: an aside. The NatGeo reference is not. The article begins and ends with a reference to Future for Nature. All indications are that NatGeo decided to run a biographical piece on the recipient because he won the award, not because he was otherwise notable. -- RM 15:49, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As I stated before, there appears to be plenty of sources that at least mention the recipients of the awards: NatGeo, IUCN, semana.com (news), mongabay.co.id (news), mnn.com (news), gmanetwork.com (news), jpost.com (news), etc. I'm not going to rehash my argument here, if you don't accept it, fine. But it is not an argument based on nothing. -- RM 14:11, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - while there are quite a few mentions, all appear to be of a trivial nature. Searches did not turn up the type of in-depth coverage to show that it passes WP:GNG. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:50, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I can find (and this has been commented on above) example after example of news coverage in the form "Person X wins Y award: Person X feels happy". I've yet to see from what seem to be reliable sources any discussions on the award itself. I've plenty of sympathy for what the broader organization is trying to do, but I don't think that the award itself is that notable. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 16:17, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep. The subject is presumed notable per meeting aspects of WP:NCYC. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:43, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

David Graf (BMX rider)

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Non notable person. Few sources listing him are brief and most are simply rankings of his place in his sport EllsworthSchmittendorf (talk) 21:52, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy keep Bad nomination as many sources can be found and the person meets several times WP:NCYC: 1) competed at UCI world championships, 2) competed at UCI world Cups, 3) won a UCI category race (Echichens 2015). Besides of is one of the best BMX riders over the last few years after winning bronze medals at World Championships (2012 & 2015) and the European Games. I also don't understand the nominator that there are only a few sources about him. A quick Google search found many articles, 5 random of them:1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Sander.v.Ginkel ^(Talk) 06:33, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy Keep very clearly based on WP:NCYC. If the world #3 isn't notable, then we have a problem with our guidelines. -- RM 03:27, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Question Why relisting Northamerica1000 while the cyclist obvious meets WP:NCYC?! What is otherwise the function of WP:NSPORTS?? Sander.v.Ginkel ^(Talk) 07:42, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. This article's subject has been found to lack notability. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 06:52, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Miss Universe Malta

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Newly formed pageant with no independent reliable source coverage. Search for sources yielded 3 copies of the same press release. Unrelated to Miss Malta. • Gene93k (talk) 19:18, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as this is likely too soon and thus there's unlikely enough to suggest confidently keeping. Delete at best. SwisterTwister talk 05:58, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. I can understand why the article creator created this article, as Malta has been away from this pageant since 2001. Here is a reliable source that I found that tells about Malta's return to the Miss Universe, a source that was not yet included by the article creator: "Malta at Miss Universe". Times of Malta. April 10, 2016. Retrieved April 24, 2016. (By the way, the first sentence of this article does not do an adequate job summarizing the article subject.) However, I cannot find other reliable sources about this role who ends up representing Malta each year at this pageant, so I do not believe this article's subject is notable. Note: I feel the need to play devil's advocate and say that, under Wikipedia:Other stuff exists, there are other Wikipedia article about others who represent their countries at this pageant, such as Miss Universe Great Britain or Miss Universe Vietnam or even for specific years like Miss Universe Slovenia 2003, however I strongly suspect many of these should be nominated for deletion as well. Best, Prhartcom (talk) 18:48, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. Michig (talk) 06:57, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Karen Fukuhara

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Essentially a Repost of a userfied article with none of the reason for the original AfD (2 months before) decision being addressed. Still as per WP:TOOSOON and WP:UPANDCOMING. Peter Rehse (talk) 16:48, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Nothing much addable to the article. Daniel Kenneth (talk) 18:06, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Verified principal role in a major release DC/Warner Bros. film. To say its too early to tell if this person will have major coverage is willful ignorance. The essays, not guidelines, WP:TOOSOON and WP:UPANDCOMING are for unverified speculation and personal opinion as to the future potential of a person, not verified confirmation of her principle role which is already in post-production. --Oakshade (talk) 19:31, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not willful ignorance - that was reflecting the opinion in the first AfD. Even after the movie comes out she would not meet WP:NACTOR (also as pointed out in the AfD 2 months ago). Assuming coverage is WP:CRYSTALBALL.Peter Rehse (talk) 19:45, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There will be zero question of her notability when the movie comes out. The only ones who would attempt to delete the article on her, which will be either still around or re-created, are the Wiki Lawyers who will hang on the word "multiple" in the sub-clause of a clause buried in WP:BIO as if that somehow will negate the barrage of coverage on this person on the approach of the release of that film. --Oakshade (talk) 19:55, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - She's on all the posters and marketing material for a film that could probably be one of the biggest super hero movies of the year. People will wonder why she doesn't have a Wiki page when the time comes.--Jonipoon (talk) 08:29, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Additions - With no surprise, since this AfD started there has been a great amount of new coverage of this person, internationally no less. [50][51][52][53][54][55][56][57] This is only the beginning. The TOOSOON train has already left the station. --Oakshade (talk) 17:08, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now perhaps as this seems enough. My next alternative would've been to Redirect. SwisterTwister talk 05:29, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Redirect to Connecticut College#Athletics. Michig (talk) 06:51, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Connecticut College Men's Soccer Team

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Non-notable collegiate sports team, fails WP:ORG and WP:GNG, even for sports teams Donnie Park (talk) 14:03, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete at best as I'm not seeing any signs of actually merging and there's also nothing confidently keeping, still questionable overall. SwisterTwister talk 06:20, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Connecticut College#Athletics. Giant Snowman 07:19, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Connecticut College#Athletics. Looks like it fails GNG on its own and no sourced, useful content in the article. Regards, James (^talk/_contribs) 17:39, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Connecticut College#Athletics. Fenix down (talk) 11:10, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Nakon 22:31, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Kokkolan Tiikerit

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Unable to find significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the topic, fails WP:GNG JMHamo (talk) 09:44, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Plenty of sources exist in Finnish. It's typical news journalism in coverage, so takes some piecing together to properly source everything in the article. I'm not up for the task, but I can assure you, there are sources. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:25, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep and improve perhaps as I had waited for others to comment before finally coming. This is will better familiar attention if it need be improved. SwisterTwister talk 00:19, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Nakon 02:15, 24 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

International School Twente

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Fails WP:GNG Kleuske (talk) 09:20, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Further sources showing the verificability of the article has been given and listed. The article should no long fail WP:GNG and should thus no longer be a subject for deletion. Any questions are welcome. (User talk:Powerofvoice) 15:31, 17 April 2016 (WET)

None of those references appear to provide significant coverage in independent, reliable sources - most are just mentions of the school in listings. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:54, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Additional independent and reliable reliable are provided now - including articles from local newspapers and the record of the speech given by the Queen's commissioner on the governmental website. More sources will be added soon. (User talk:Powerofvoice) 18:44, 17 April 2016 (WET)

Keep as a secondary school per longstanding precedent and consensus. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:10, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete searches for "International School Twente" and "Internationale School Twente" (Dutch spelling) don't reveal enough independent reliable sources for the subject to meet WP:GNG. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:32, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me if I am mistaken since I am new here, but if you perform the search, you would find links to governmental websites(like of the city Enschede) and quiet a few media press. It is true that it is a very new school with less media coverage than some others, but I do not think it would fail WP:GNG - the host school of the secondary department has a Wikipedia page in Dutch but there are not much information covered on Google about that either, but it does exist. Also searches in Dutch may not reveal much information because this is an international school for the English-speaking community nearby. You could search for the school on the Cambridge school finder and you will find it there. The school is supposedly receiving more coverage in the summer. Please do not mistaken me with trying to market the school, I am one of its students and the school needs a lot of improvements, but I think it is significant enough to simply be on Wikipedia as it is somewhat quite known by many other international schools across the Netherlands. --Powerofvoice (talk) 18:33, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments, Powerofvoice. Wikipedia's notability guidelines generally require significant coverage in reliable, independent sources. Inclusion in listings such as the Cambridge site doesn't count as significant coverage in my mind, as they are routine mentions rather than in-depth coverage. The fact that nl:Het Stedelijk Lyceum Enschede exists doesn't really change things here, as each Wikipedia operates to different policies and standards. What is considered notable there might not be here. If more media coverage is going to be forthcoming in the summer, then perhaps it is worth waiting to create an article after that coverage exists. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:04, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As I'm sure I don't really have to point out again, consensus says that all secondary schools are considered notable as long as their existence and status can be verified. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:30, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, most past AfDs on secondary schools have been closed as keep, but that doesn't mean that consensus can't change or that we are bound forever more to keep all secondary school articles even if they fail to meet WP:GNG. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:01, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To illustrate this, I quote the closing statement at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2016 March 30: "All of the various outcomes essays are just compendiums of how we've done things in the past, which doesn't necessarily mean that's how we should do things in the future". Cordless Larry (talk) 20:14, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Show me the consensus to change the way we do things and I'll agree with you! -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:58, 4 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus emerges through discussion on pages such as this (genuine discussion informed by policy, rather than mimetic pointing to WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES). Cordless Larry (talk) 15:15, 4 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note those who support the retention of secondary school articles have been saying all along that we should keep these articles because longstanding consensus at AfD says we should! Yet here you are saying that consensus is created at AfD! Yes, that's exactly what we've been saying! The consensus has clearly not changed no matter how often the handful of opposers of the consensus say it has or should. No matter how often you ridicule SCHOOLOUTCOMES it illustrates consensus. No more, no less. I just can't help feeling that you won't accept a consensus unless it's a consensus you agree with! That isn't how consensus works. I certainly don't agree with every consensus on Wikipedia, but I accept it because it is consensus. Time for you to do the same, I think. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:51, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with your argument is that it doesn't allow for people to disagree with consensus, and therefore leaves little space for consensus to change. If, every time someone suggests deleting a secondary school article, you jump in to say that we can't do that because consensus is to always keep, then how could that consensus ever change? I'm not saying consensus has changed. I just think that editors should be free to disagree with it without it being suggested that they are somehow being disruptive. I think we agree that consensus is created across AfDs, but the point of disagreement is that I think policy-based reasons for deletion should be given, rather than editors simply pointing at SCHOOLOUTCOMES and refusing to engage in discussions about the need for sources to demonstrate notability. Cordless Larry (talk) 15:19, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There's no problem with disagreeing with the consensus. The problem is with those who claim there isn't a consensus when there clearly is and that pointing out the consensus isn't a valid argument, which it also clearly is. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:26, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Per the long-standing (unchanged despite recent efforts) consensus of WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES AusLondonder (talk) 00:11, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES is just a summary, not an argument despite recent efforts to claim something else. (And that removal was not overturned.) The Banner talk 17:11, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nevertheless, editors sought to overturn SCHOOLOUTCOMES and failed. The school that was deleted had practically no sources, unlike this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AusLondonder (talk • contribs) 19:58, 6 May 2016‎ (UTC)[reply]

This article certainly has more sources, but the rationale that resulted in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Good Shepherd English School being closed as delete was that the article failed to meet WP:GNG. Look at the sources cited in the current article, and you will see that many are not independent of the school, hence why I think this also fails GNG (after having searched for potential additional sources). Cordless Larry (talk) 20:07, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:GNG. Most of the sources given are related sources, so not sourced conform WP:RS. The Banner talk 17:11, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Hmmm, the school is not even a separate school but is just a department of a bigger school The Banner talk 18:34, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The school's wi-fi allegedly (but did not) make a kid sick. Beware! [58][59]--Milowent • ^hasspoken 20:20, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I agree with many others that as a secondary school, it is notable enough to be kept per longstanding consesus. Although changes should be made to the page to improve the quality(e.g. adding sources to unreferenced materials). I believe deletion is not necessary in this case. 192.87.100.27 (talk) 14:00, 12 May 2016 (UTC) — 192.87.100.27 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Could you suggest some sources, 192.87.100.27? I have struggled to find many. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:17, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Searches simply did not turn up enough in-depth coverage to show that it passes WP:GNG. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:46, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The school has received significant coverage here^WebCite and here^WebCite from RTV Oost. Cunard (talk) 05:17, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Three relists? Really? Just close it as no consensus already.—S Marshall T/C 21:37, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. Even a "no consensus" close will provide aid to those arguing against the "every school is precious" folks.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 14:57, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And that is what you want to prevent at all costs. Milowent. That is load and clear...

The Banner talk 18:22, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - It's a secondary school, it apparently has some coverage, I see no reason to delete it. Fieari (talk) 04:39, 17 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- No, it is a section of a secondary school. Not an independent school. The Banner talk 18:22, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - sourcing is not great but I think secondary schools that seem non-temporary have a right to have articles on them. Blythwood (talk) 10:34, 17 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- But it is not a separate school.. The Banner talk 18:22, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Wings of Tomorrow. (non-admin closure) –Davey2010^Talk 20:15, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Lyin' Eyes (Europe song)

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No references, no claim of notability, fails WP:NSONG and WP:GNG. Prodded and prod removed. Richhoncho (talk) 09:11, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to ~~Europe (band)~~ Wings of Tomorrow per WP:NSONG. clpo13_(talk) 16:35, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Wings of Tomorrow, the album containing the song. Binksternet (talk) 05:43, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect as not convincing for its own article. SwisterTwister talk 07:13, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to album article for now per WP:MUSICOUTCOMES. Can be rewritten if and when the notability guideline for songs is met. Sam Sailor ^Talk! 18:50, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Consensus is clear. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 02:28, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

2015–16 Troon F.C. season

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Troon don't play in fully professional league therefore fail WP:NSEASONS: Dougal18 (talk) 08:53, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as currently questionable for the needed separate notability. SwisterTwister talk 07:14, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The article is a crafted compendium of detail on Troon FC's activities in the current season, sourced to the team website. However the Junior league in which they play is some levels below fully-professional football in Scotland, which means the article fails the primary WP:NSEASONS criterion. (Note too that the second paragraph of WP:NSEASONS says articles should be text-based rather than statistics.) The key information on the players is already featuring in the main Troon F.C. article. Note too that there are a significant number of other seasonal articles: [60]. AllyD (talk) 08:17, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. Giant Snowman 07:19, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - We have many past articles of the individual seasons of this team. While not professional league anymore that isn't reason enough to discontinue it. Inter&anthro (talk) 15:58, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "While not professional league anymore" - not sure what you mean by that? Troon have never played in a professional league, and the league they currently play in has never been professional?? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:18, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Clear WP:NSEASONS failure. Not sure how any season article on this club would satisfy any guideline. Fenix down (talk) 20:02, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, club does not (regularly) play at a national or professional level. All of the other season articles should be nominated for deletion. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 10:28, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) — Music1201 ^talk 20:41, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Conrad Robert Murray

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I'm not certain this is still ready for a separate article. Conrad Murray (the normal naming convention) was created and then fought over and finally redirected in 2010 and has remained protected since then. A move to this page seems like gamesmanship almost of the prior version but nevertheless, evaluated as a separate new article, I think this is still basically a WP:BLP1E situation that should just be deleted and if kept rather than a redirect to California v. Murray like the regular Conrad Murray page does, that page should be restored and the history merged or something. Ricky81682 (talk) 06:15, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep (and move to Conrad Murray) - I'm seeing years of coverage in numerous reliable sources. It's true much of his notability is likely because of his relationship with Jackson, but it appears he's had plenty of coverage from beyond any single event. FuriouslySerene (talk) 17:00, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Should it be kept as is or moved to Conrad Murray? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:08, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, it should be moved. Amending my vote. FuriouslySerene (talk) 13:23, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - per WP:GNG. simply.BabbaQ (talk) 19:45, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep as convincing enough for his own article apart from Michael Jackson's own article. SwisterTwister talk 07:12, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - one condition of deleting under BLP1E is "If the event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented." Indeed, Michael Jackson's death was highly significant, and Murray's role is both substantial and well-documented. GAB^Hello! 22:32, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Michig (talk) 06:36, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Intro sequence

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I recently AfDed Outro (video gaming), and I think all the same reasoning applies here. This is a thing that exists in video games, sure, but it's not covered as a separate entity. The best you'll do is find mention of particular intro sequences, not a discussion of the concept itself. Essentially, it fails WP:GNG in the same way outro did. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 00:52, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as I'm not finding anything confidently better. SwisterTwister talk 07:12, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. I agree, with my same rationale: there are intro sequences, but without reliable sources writing about them, this is just WP:OR. A quick search on the custom WP:VG/RS search engine brings up some results, but nothing in-depth about the actual concept. Notable intro sequences can be mentioned at its respective game. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 08:08, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for the same reasons that Outro was deleted. ZettaComposer (talk) 14:04, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. This article isn't prepared to do much better than a dictionary definition. czar 07:39, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. MBisanz ^talk 00:45, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Inbox 2.0

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A Yahoo marketing code-name that never caught on as an actual term mentioned in a single New York Times 2007 article. --Michael White^T·C 04:51, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect or merge to Web 2.0 given that the term has been mentioned by independent sources. editorEهեইдအ😎 17:49, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as still questionable for solid independent notability. SwisterTwister talk 07:11, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete 2.0 - sometimes I'll suggest these be redirected to the 2.0 page but there doesn't seem to be a need here. Artw (talk) 01:26, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:41, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Semantic social network

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This is not a commonly used term, this article was created by its originator, and references are mostly papers written by promoters of the concept, and a couple web links of semantic web-promoting websites with questionable reliability for establishing notability. Thus, it fails to meet the general notability guideline. --Michael White^T·C 04:34, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep?. Lots of cites in GS and GB. Xxanthippe (talk) 05:02, 17 April 2016 (UTC).[reply]

That's true, and I probably should have checked that more. Some of the matches are not quite germane. GS search for "semantic social network" -author:neumann -"semantic social network modeling" -"semantic social network analysis" -"social semantic network" returns 595 results but a lot of them are in citations or passing uses of the phrase. "Semantic social network" is a term that has probably been used a fair amount by semantic web researchers but no notable semantic social networks exist and the term does not seem to have been significantly used in any reliable sources independent of semantic web researchers.--Michael White^T·C 05:23, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep an emerging discipline, fairly well documented, nomination does not meet WP:DEL-REASON 009o9 (talk) 01:52, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Fabio Zerpa. (non-admin closure) SSTflyer 23:58, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Los Hombres De Negro y los OVNI

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Fails WP:NBOOK JMHamo (talk) 00:05, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as per nominator. Edward321 (talk) 00:18, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Fabio Zerpa. It's difficult to source anything that references the paranormal, as they are rarely covered in places Wikipedia would consider reliable. That it's difficult to source anything pre-Internet or wasn't published in English goes without saying, and this book has all three things going against it. It's possible, albeit probably unlikely, that sources do exist out there off of the Internet. I didn't find anything in my searches, but if anyone can provide RS in the future I don't mind this being restored. I do note that Zerpa's article has some issues with notability, so that might need to be looked at as well. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 07:30, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect as not seriously needing deletion but also not independently notable. SwisterTwister talk 07:10, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete no reliable sources mentions this book. HealthyGirl (talk) 20:50, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Ed (Edgar181) 17:42, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Mohammad Al Ajlouni

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Fails WP:BIO, non-notable JMHamo (talk) 00:00, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Keep~~ Neutral. If article is to be believed, passes WP:JOURNALIST. Xxanthippe (talk)

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Delete: I can't find sources that verifies he passes WP:JOURNALIST; I can't even find sources that makes him pass WP:BASIC. Sam Sailor ^Talk! 16:05, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as nothing at all actually suggesting the necessary notability. SwisterTwister talk 07:09, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Article written with too much fluff. Seems to be written for self-promotion. Leaning towards delete, due to too much fluff, yet not much notability. Conspirasee1 (talk) 10:38, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Chaos magic#The gnostic state. (non-admin closure) — Music1201 ^talk 20:43, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Excitatory gnosis

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No indication of notability. Sources are anything but reliable. Edward321 (talk) 23:50, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Chaos magic#The gnostic state, where it is discussed. I haven't found multiple independent RS for this aspect of the occult, but basic facts about it are verifiable. Best to merge back into the main article, and since I think there is little to merge, redirect. --Mark viking (talk) 01:09, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect as still questionable for a better improvable separate article. SwisterTwister talk 07:09, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ‑Scottywong | chatter _ 05:01, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

List of Consuls-General of Australia in Chengdu

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is there a need for a list when only 1 person has held the post? secondly we have very few list of ambassador articles, so I question the need for a list of Consuls-General who are lower ranked diplomats. Also nominating :

List of Consuls-General of Australia in Makassar

LibStar (talk) 16:04, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete unless a way to Merge and redirect is found. After looking through some consuls-general related pages, I have not found any pages to merge this one into Sheepythemouse (talk) 20:39, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete both Not-very-high-ranking or significant diplomatic posts. Nick-D (talk) 07:57, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep both The scope of a Consulate General is definitely international, and it is certainly notable, this has been the subject of significant coverage in secondary sources. Further, if there are very few lists of ambassador articles, then that is a gap rather than a reason to keep other notable topics out. I would suggest the reason it is termed a 'list' for one person is for consistency with other similar articles. Here are some of the secondary sources covering the Chengdu Consulate General with significant depth:
- Sainsbury, Michael (20 March 2012). "Australia to open new consulate in Chengdu". The Australian. News Corp Australia.
- Wen, Philip (31 July 2013). "Mission opens door to vast interior". The Sydney Morning Herald. Fairfax Media.
- "Australian Consulate-General in Chengdu Opens Officially". Gochengdu.cn. 11 November 2014.
- One year on: A message from Ms Nancy Gordon, the Consul-General in Chengdu, Australia China Connections Pty Ltd, archived from the original on 21 September 2014
- Peng Chao (14 November 2015). "Australian visa application center opens in Chengdu". China Daily.

Clare. (talk) 01:22, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how this coverage makes a list of Consuls-General notable. You've given coverage except one about the consulate not consul general. It's a separate discussion if the consulate is notable. LibStar (talk) 05:43, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

also how can you argue keep both when you've provided zero coverage for Makassar? LibStar (talk) 12:53, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

you've also attempt to canvass someone into this discussion [61]. LibStar (talk) 05:59, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

On the page about canvassing it says 'In general, it is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, provided that it be done with the intent to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus,' which was what my aim was. Here's coverage for Makassar as requested:

"Islands in focus: Australia opens consulate general in Makassar". The Jakarta Post. 23 March 2016. Retrieved 4 April 2016.
Darmawan, Awang (22 March 2016). "Bishop to Inaugurate Australian Consulate-General in Makassar". Tempo Co.
"Australia notifies VP about plan to open consulate general in Makassar". Antara News. 21 March 2016.
Hajramurni, Andi (2 December 2015). "Australia to open consulate general in Makassar next year". The Jakarta Post.
"Australia strengthens presence in Indonesia". Antara News. 25 March 2016.

Clare. (talk) 10:05, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Again this is coverage about the office of the consulate not coverage where the person who is consul general is the subject LibStar (talk) 10:19, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Throwing accusations about canvassing isn't helpful, especially given that I'm the author of the Chengdu page (I.E. an 'Editor who has made substantial edits to the topic or article') and I had no notification of its deletion until Clare notified me. I see the problem being solved by moving of these pages to a title that focuses on the consulate itself, rather than merely the office-holders, with a bit more info on its functions thrown in; say to Australian Consulate-General, Makassar/Chengdu? This has been done here.Siegfried Nugent (talk) 19:29, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep both I agree with above. There is clear notability and modern diplomacy often means that most consuls-general have many delegated and policy roles that would normally be the sole responsibility of an ambassador. These posts fulfil this role. If deletion is approved, perhaps a single page listing various Australian consuls-general (like I did with the special interests abassadors and envoys) could be a possible compromise. Siegfried Nugent (talk) 04:38, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is presuming ambassadors are inherently notable which they are not. And consul generals even less so. LibStar (talk) 05:43, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

consuls do not have sole responsibility of roles assigned to ambassadors unless no ambassador exists in that country. The ambassador always retains full responsibility. In this case, there are ambassadors in China and Indonesia. LibStar (talk) 05:46, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, perhaps a merge of certain material into the ambassador pages (i.e. for china and indonesia ambassadors) is a better compromise? Not notable enough for their own page, perhaps, but enough to warrant inclusions in a page dealing with the closest subject.Siegfried Nugent (talk) 15:15, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Omni Flames ^{let's talk about it} 00:18, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Ludicrous lists given the number of entries and questionable notability of the individuals. --Michig (talk) 07:28, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete at best, still questionable for its own article. SwisterTwister talk 23:53, 7 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails WP:LIST in so many ways. Bearian (talk) 17:19, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - seriously? Both of these roles have only been held by a single person, so what's the need for a list here? I agree that an article on this could eventually be useful, but it's WP:TOOSOON for that. Omni Flames ^{let's talk about it} 09:33, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. MBisanz ^talk 00:58, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Kallan Holley

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Non-notable, fails WP:GNG and WP:CREATIVE JMHamo (talk) 18:16, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP - Notable, has had lead roles in tv shows like PAW Patrol. http://www.moviefone.com/tv/paw-patrol/286599/credits/ , the upcoming Angry Birds film http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1985949/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1 . And many more. Thursby16 (talk) 18:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note Thursby16 is the original writer of and primary contributor to the article in question. crh23 (talk) 19:39, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep She has a main role in Paw Patrol, which is in its third season. She will also be in The Angry Birds Movie, though I'm not sure how big her role is. She has also won a young artist award, and was nominated for another. Finally, despite the articles short existence, it has already been viewed 137 times. JDDJS (talk) 00:41, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete perhaps and certainly Redirect' to Paw Patrol as this is still frankly questionable and the best two works are listed, too soon at best. I'm also no longer convinced by the Young Artist Awards to save articles. SwisterTwister talk 04:53, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Relisting for the last time so the debate (hopefully) receives some more attention. Omni Flames ^{let's talk about it} 00:03, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Wikipedia is not a public relations platform on which people in any field of endeavour are entitled to have articles just because they exist — it takes reliable source coverage about her in media to earn her an article. If you have to rely on cast lists in cast-list directories like Moviefone or IMDb as your only "sources", however, then you have not gotten her over the bar — and no source present here is anything more than an IMDb-like cast-list directory. Delete, without prejudice against recreation in the future if and when her sourceability gets a lot better than this. Bearcat (talk) 23:23, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Article fails to meet WP:GNG or WP:ACTOR. The only sources that can be found are very routine things, nothing that shows notability in any way. When trying to scrape together sources for an article, if the best we can find is something like this, it's a good hint that it's not quite time to make such an article. - Aoidh (talk) 19:53, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Minimal career (so far) and there appears to be zero significant coverage in reliable sources. --Michig (talk) 07:23, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. not noteworthy at this time. Kierzek (talk) 23:56, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Unfortunately as she hasn't done very much yet (she is very young of course) there are very few sources that can be used to prove notability. She may well become very famous and we may see her name again in the future. ツStacey (talk) 17:01, 4 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Keep' Adequate indicia of notability. I'm noticing a lot of bias against children's programming lately; these programs are themselves of adequate notability and while they are not as extensively covered in the mainstream press as "adult" films, one needs to look to the standard of the world of children's programming and assess within that level. Not everyone has to be Hannah Montana to meet GNG. Montanabw ^(talk) 21:56, 4 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of tallest buildings in Italy. (non-admin closure) SSTflyer 09:41, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Torre San Vincenzo

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Totally unsourced article without any indication of notability. It's a large office building, and that's it. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 00:00, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Genoa, or perhaps Weak Keep, because the Italian Wikipedia seems to have a sizable article on this building - however, I can't read Italian so it may be an article on another building with the same name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheepythemouse (talk • contribs) 01:15, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment it certainly appears to be the same building as the Italian Wikipedia has an article on, but I wouldn't call it "sizeable": it's under 2Kb! Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 15:11, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment My knowledge of Italian is rudimentary, but even so it is adequate to convince me that this article is an only slightly shortened version of the Italian Wikipedia one - the differences seem to consist of a couple more names for the building, one not very substantial reference and links to other Wikipedia articles which actually work. The building was not the tallest even in Genoa when built, so unless being over 100 metres in height for a building from before 1970 is automatically notable, I am not currently seeing any reason to keep. PWilkinson (talk) 17:47, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as there's nothing at least minimally better for a better notable article. SwisterTwister talk 07:08, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Delete~~. No convincing reason to merge, and none of the content is sourced. Nothing much found from a web search to indicate that the building is notable enough. --Michig (talk) 07:17, 1 May 2016 (UTC) Support redirect per Cavarrone below. --Michig (talk) 05:48, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 06:52, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of tallest buildings in Italy, there are a few results in Google Books but they are only visible as snippets so they are difficult to evaluate. Possibly notable, possibly not, for now a redirect to the relevant list (where Torre San Vincenzo is 29th) seems a reasonable solution. Cavarrone 05:01, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A redirect would be reasonable, although the entry in that list also appears to be unsourced. --Michig (talk) 05:48, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of tallest buildings in Italy. Not finding source coverage to qualify an article. However, it's listed at the list article, and this is a valid search term. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:56, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
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+{{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lew Childre}}
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Meggie Royer (2nd nomination)}}
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chandra Kant Jaisansaria}}