Template talk:Infobox basketball biography

TemplateData

The documentation for TemplateData at Template:Infobox_basketball_biography/doc#Template_Data, which is used by VisualEditor, needs some fixes. Apparently, each entry should have only one parameter, not multiple ones like "years1,team1". This was flagged for the NFL infobox at this discussion. Refer there for details on fixing the issues.—Bagumba (talk) 19:26, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Multiple drafts

What if a player was involved in two or more drafts? e.g., Wayne Chapman. Could support be added for that? Thanks for your consideration. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 01:01, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Stevie, given the length of the infobox, and the fact that Chapman played four season in the ABA, shouldn't his ABA Draft information be listed and not his NBA Draft info? Infoboxes are about choosing the most relevant and important information, not trying to duplicate the main body text in bullet points. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:28, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

I have no idea. I was only updating this article because params were used twice. I don't know enough about this subject to decide what should go in the infobox. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 02:31, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

If a player was selected in the NBA draft, it seems like that should display. If you've ever gone looking for ABA draft info, it is more scarce than you think it should be. There is nothing stopping one from using the ABA draft though if you think it's best (no guideline that is), just use the "draft_league" parameter. There is no way to display multiple drafts and I think for the sake of efficiency we shouldn't seek to add this in my opinion. The dual draft situation can be addressed in the prose. Rikster2 (talk) 16:42, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughts. I think this is a case where I'll leave it to other editors to futz with if they choose. As I said, I don't know enough about the subject to be able to weigh an ABA versus an NBA career. For now, I have commented out the duplicate/ignored parameters so they don't trigger addition to a cleanup category. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 18:08, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

GM/Executive tenure

How come this template doesn't support perameters to delineate tenure as a GM or executive? pbp 19:51, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

@Purplebackpack89: There was no consensus to add executive stints previously at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Basketball/Archive4#General_manager.27s_infobox—Bagumba (talk) 07:40, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Current team in Infobox basketball biography

FYI

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball#Current team in Infobox basketball biography regarding the basketball person's current team at the top of Template:Infobox basketball biography.—Bagumba (talk) 06:04, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Request: National team players parameter

Could national team parameters be added like what is being done at the soccer player infobox? In theory there are three (previously four) national "teams" a player could participate:

• Under-16 to 17 (Youth)
• Under-18 to 19 (Junior)
• Under 21 (Cadet, now restricted to Europe)
• No age limits (Senior)

There are also instances when a player changed his national team affiliation. In most cases this is due to a country being dissolved (see former Soviet and Yugoslavian players. There might be a handful who switched teams due to naturalization; the most famous of which is Hakeem Olajuwon. (In most cases, naturalized players are Americans who aren't good enough to crack the US team so they don't count here.)

For coaches we could list them at one of the cteam fields. I noticed these have separate "international" sections too. –HTD 15:02, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

There was a similar proposal before with no consensus. I'm not convinced for basketball anything more than medals are significant enough for the infobox. At least in English American sources, there just isn't much mention in independent sources of those youth tourneys.—Bagumba (talk) 03:02, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Participation on a youth tourney "national team" is not worthy of inclusion in a major professional basketball player's space-limited infobox; including reference to a player's participation on a senior national team that represented their country in the Olympics or FIBA World Cup deserves to be referenced. It should go without saying that an Olympic or FIBA medal should be included in the infobox medals table. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:36, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

The thing is there are many players who haven't won medals, but were good enough to play for their national teams; in that case, you wouldn't know that they had played for the national team until you've read the article. There also instances of players having medal templates for junior national team appearances. Players like Nikola Mirotić and Tyus Jones list their junior national team medals, without telling the reader first that they even played for the national teams earlier in the infobox. That's like saying Kobe won all of those Finals MVP awards without the sight of the word "Lakers" on his infobox. I don't think people would move to remove these junior national team medal templates.

Americans may be ambivalent to such tournaments but it's a big deal elsewhere. You won't even know that the greatest Indian woman to play hoops, Geethu Anna Jose, even played for their national team if you read her infobox, until you realize that "International" means national team duty. A typical current player's biography always contains a section on an "International career". Adding a separate section in the infobox for such corresponds to fields in the infobox for sections on high school, college and professional teams. If coaches can list the national teams that they had coached, players deserve to have their national team duty added too. Jason Kidd played 59 games for California, but you didn't know that he played 46 games for team USA when the infobox shows you the medal out of nowhere. –HTD 09:33, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't think people would move to remove these junior national team medal templates. Its weight is overblown for US players. About the only place I'll see mention is on niche subscription site like rivals.com or on bios on university websites.—Bagumba (talk) 16:17, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Examples of widespread independent coverage of national teams might sway me that it's a big enough deal outside of the U.S. to consider somehow incorporating it. That being said, not everything that is true needs to be in the infobox, e.g. AAU teams, records, etc. In the meantime, I'll wait to see others' take on this as well.—Bagumba (talk) 16:17, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

It seems most basketball biographies don't have a separate section for AAU tournaments, much less mention them at length. For some younger players there's an extensive discussion on high school(!) seasons, and seeing high schools, colleges and pro teams are listed at the infobox, and have separate sections on the main body of the article, it makes sense that we list national team appearances as well, since we have "International" sections and medals on the infobox as well. –HTD 16:32, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Examples of NBA players who don't have their senior national team listed in the infobox are Goran Dragić and Sasha Vujačić. They both have medal templates for junior competitions so I dunno if that counts as a "mention". –HTD 14:53, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Is there any hope for this request? I just updated Chang Tsung-hsien's teams in his infobox, and he apparently played for the Taiwanese Chinese Taipei national team. Since TPE is stuck in a place where it's hard to win medals (East Asia has always been dominated by China and South Korea), there's no way for the infobox to say that he had played for the TPE national team before. This is very unfortunate. I could imagine there could be several more instances of articles like this dude's, like Joji Takeuchi, Kosuke Takeuchi, heck, even players like Desmond Oh and Mario Wuysang. –HTD 16:36, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

• Here's what WP:HOCKEY and WP:SWIMMING do for national teams:

Wayne Gretsky;

Dara Torres.

Use of the flag icons is restricted to national teams, and not used for nationality. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:58, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Flags for national team

Also, for a sorta related request, can the medal template be edited to remove the flag? Flags aren't supposed to be used infoboxes unless there's a good reason. –HTD 14:53, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

"A good reason" for flag icons, HTD? Like membership on a national team in international competition? FYI, MOS:INFOBOXFLAG was recently changed to specifically permit flag icons for athletes in international competition. That said, Template:Medal, Template:Country and Template:Competition, which are used to create the infobox medals table, are not tied to flag icons. The flags may be omitted -- if that's the consensus of the particular WikiProject. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:33, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

I could live with the flag to the left- (or right-)aligned, but now it flows together with the text, which WP:ICON disallows. If we're ever be going to use flags, it shouldn't be at the middle of the text as it is right now:

Competitor for the United States

We could either go with

Competitor for the United States

Or

Competitor for the United States

Or even

Competitor for the United States

–HTD 15:56, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

I never understood the fixation for flags. I'm resigned that they somehow provide a coolness factor, presumably like seeing your own navbox on an article.—Bagumba (talk) 16:26, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

I kinda like flags to be honest but the way it is presented right now is a violation of WP:ICON. Either no flag, or put it on either (or BOTH? LOL) end/s of the header. I realize this is a separate template(?) though so I dunno if we could do something about it. –HTD 16:28, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Looking at Kobe Bryant, that article is encoded as {{MedalCountry|the {{USA}}}}. Unfortunately, the flag/text is passed into the template, meaning it would need to be changed on every article, not just one change in {{MedalCountry}}.—Bagumba (talk) 16:35, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

I snooped around elsewhere and that was the case too. Well that sucks. Either way if we're going to make any edits to this template we should force people to use templates that won't display flags unless it's necessary. –HTD 16:40, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

. . . . or {{MedalCountry|the United States {{flagicon|USA}}}}, which yields

|- ! colspan="3" style="text-align:center;vertical-align:middle;background-color:#eeeeee;color:inherit;" class="adr" | Representing the United States

Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:49, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

That works but you'd have to change every article and it's not worth it. :P This template is either badly constructed or was made before the flagicon templates came out. –HTD 16:54, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

HTD, please read MOS:ICON again:

"Do not use icons in general article prose

"Icons should not be used in the article body, as in, ". . . and after her novel was published, Jackson moved to Bristol, England, in April 2004." This breaks up the continuity of the text . . . ."

Please note the use of the words "article prose," "article body" and "text." It does not apply to phrases used in tables and infoboxes. In such circumstances, it is generally understood that presenting the flag icon with the country name is the proper and accepted way of using flag icons. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:00, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

You got me at "Text". It breaks up the continuity of "Competitor for the United States" The flag is in the middle of the text in the infobox. It should be at either edge of table. It's like having

Birthplace	Los Angeles, California, United States

Nobody does that, right? That's what's happening right now. Putting it in the middle of a sentence violates MOS:ICON. I'm willing to bet that, if this happened at the MOS talk pages, this use of flagicons is not allowed. –HTD 17:13, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

HTD, no one does what you have shown in your birth place example for a variety of reasons, starting with the fact that two side-by-side links for city and state are deprecated (e.g., Los Angeles, California vs. Los Angeles, California), and we are not supposed to use flag icons for purely geographic locations, including birth places and places of death. When using flag icons, there is always supposed to be an element of "representation," e.g., an athlete representing his country at the Olympics; a warship, military unit or commander of a particular country; an article where the country is the primary subject; etc. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:35, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Specific example aside, I think HTD is just saying that a flag in middle of text feels klugey. Given the work involved, I doubt anyone is inclined to pursue it, but I don't see a reason to object if someone is willing and able.—Bagumba (talk) 17:42, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Template:MedalCountry is in use on over 41,000 articles, most of which are bios of national team athletes who have won medals in major international competitions like the Olympics. Its format has been fairly well standardized for years (predates my six years on-wiki, and then some). If HTD wants to invent something better for the medals table for Infobox basketball biography, I'm game, but we're not going to re-do 41,000 existing medals tables because of a mis-reading of the quoted provision of MOS:ICON. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:03, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Like I demonstrated, it's on the positioning on the text, not on what it supposedly stands for. I would've used flags for many things on the infobox if it weren't for MOS:ICON. –HTD 17:47, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

You can always try at WP:BOTREQ to see if someone can write a bot to detect and perform the changes.—Bagumba (talk) 17:54, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

HTD, again, please re-read the quoted portion of MOS:ICON; it has a bolded section header labeled "Do not use icons in general article prose". The text of the MOS:ICON specifically refers to the "article body," and the example provided is a prose sentence from article main body text. By its own terms, the MOS:ICON prohibition on icons in text applies to main body text of articles, not phrases used in tables, etc. You are inventing a restriction that does not exist by mis-reading MOS-ICON. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:08, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

(EC): I won't be bothered on asking someone to make a bot to change 40k articles on upholding what the MOS says. I suggested this because I thought all we need is a simple edit on one place. I'm not one of those guys who won the "dash wars" who have nothing else better to do. With that said, you said it's a misreading, and I say it's a violation. If I misread it, I could perfectly add random flags such as in infoboxes such as "TV in the United States" in Template:Infobox Super Bowl. Now I don't care either way, but if you insist on whether I "misread" it, you could ask the people at WT:MOS. –HTD 18:29, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

HTD, I've been involved in FLAG discussions for 5+ years -- I know what MOS:ICON permits and prohibits, where it is internally inconsistent, and I can discuss the history of MOS:ICON changes including some of the sneaky shit that was pulled in 2008–09 to get the original infobox prohibition adopted without notice, how it has been a contentious bit of warfare ever since, culminating in recent MOS:ICON changes that explicitly permit the use of flag icons for athletes in international competition. The current exception permits flag icons as a representation of the "sporting nationality" of athletes, but we still don't use flags for NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL and NCAA athletes because they are not members of national teams and they don't generally compete in international championships. Various sports projects have made limited provision, however, to incorporate such icons into the infobox medals tables for those small minority of NBA players (and other athletes) who have been medalists as members of their national teams. Nothing requires the use of flag icons in the medals table of Infobox basketball biography; if WP:BASKETBALL or WP:NBA decided today to remove the flag icons from the medals tables of all basketball player infoboxes, that's within the formatting discretion of those WikiProjects. If you want to create a replacement of Template:MedalCountry for Infobox basketball biography, that either omits the flag or re-arranges the text around the flag icon to your liking, you can do that too, assuming that's the consensus of those WikiProjects. Where we part company is your misreading of the quoted provision of MOS:ICON: it does not say what you think it says. Again the quoted provision applies to the use of flag icons in main body prose of articles, not tables, infoboxes, etc. There are other provisions of MOS:ICON, however, that are understood to prohibit or strongly discourage the use of flag icons for purely geographic locations, including birthplaces, places of death, tournament locations, etc., as well ethnicity and non-representative nationality. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:12, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Look, I'm not in the process of making 40k edits. TBH I'm on the fence on flags. All I'm saying is that the icon shouldn't be in the middle of two words. It should either appear first or last. That's it. –HTD 19:21, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Howard, bringing this discussion full circle, I am completely open to a better solution for the medals table for Infobox basketball biography. If you can address the flag-in-the-middle-of-text issue in a way that improves on the existing Template:MedalCountry, I'll be the first to back you in a template talk page discussion that advocates applying your formatting change for basketball players to how Template:MedalCountry is coded and/or used. If it's a clear improvement, it's an improvement, regardless of what MOS:ICON says. Feel free to play with the existing word-icon order and ping me if you come up with something you like. Don't worry about the coding (there are multiple options for flag icons and associated displayed links); focus on getting the phrasing and word-icon order where you want it. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:13, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Presumably the easy way out is to put the flag either on the leftmost or rightmost part of the row. I'd also want the template to use the flag templates so that we won't have to use templates such as {{USA}}. But it's 41k transclusions and I dunno how to deal with other than bots... –HTD 17:52, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Purely devil's advocate: just because it aint an MOS already don't mean its not worth doin. At any rate, not on my bucket list.—Bagumba (talk) 18:23, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

I wish you luck with that. Having been a part of MOS:ICON discussions over the last five years, I can say with some authority that it's a hornets nest of irrational extremes -- MOS warriors who hate flag icons and want to ban them everywhere, on one hand, and equally extreme editors who think it's entirely appropriate to slap U.S. state flags on NCAA tournament locations and national flags on the geographic locations of dinosaur fossil-bearing rock formations, on the other. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:12, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

No luck needed. I obviously didn't emphasize the "Purely devil's advocate" part enough apparently :-)—Bagumba (talk) 19:23, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

National team parameter

Nationality is one thing, and international representation another. I think it is only about time we add a "National team" parameter. Examples:

• Oliver Lafayette, nationality: American, Croatian, national team: Croatia.
• Milko Bjelica, nationality: Serbian, Montenegrin, national team: Montenegro.
• Emir Preldžić, nationality: Bosnian, Slovenian, Turkish, national team: Turkey.
• Jake Cohen, nationality: American, Israeli, national team: Israel.

I could go on, you get it. The parameter could either have its own header, or added to Career history.--Zoupan 09:43, 8 May 2015 (UTC)}}

I believe annotations will work best here, minor footnotes on each entry to explain subject's relationship with nation is question. It will be helpful in cases where subjects have four or more states. --Oranges Juicy (talk) 10:55, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit template-protected}} template. Do any other sportsperson infoboxes make this distinction? --Redrose64 (talk) 12:38, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

I never ordered "do it", it would be a long drawn-out operation anyhow and I am well aware it needs many more editors to agree. I think your call of not done was a little early since consensus discussion has just begun. --Oranges Juicy (talk) 14:54, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

• Is there anything new to consider here since the previous discussion on this topic. Otherwise, I'm OK with the status quo to not have this.—Bagumba (talk) 23:38, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Judging by the fact of nationality ≠ national team (see the examples above), there should be no problem in including national team, perhaps as Template:Infobox football biography has it.--Zoupan 01:56, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

I think continuing to list national team events for which a medal is earned is sufficient for the infobox. Per MOS:INFOBOX: "The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance." Mention of other national team participation can be done in the prose.—Bagumba (talk) 21:16, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Summoned by bot. Having had a quick look at past discussion, I don't see the need or advantage of this change. I second Bagumba's point that info-boxes should not be over-burdened. With any sport, birth place or birth nationality is a detail, membership of a national team/squad is what is notable. Pincrete (talk) 08:48, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

I understand that if a player has played on national team level, and if so, the number of games played for the national team is an interesting data to appear. This data is available in the template of other languages. --Maku17 (talk) 12:54, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Not all "interesting data" is notable enough to be in the infobox. However, there's no reason it can't be included in the prose.—Bagumba (talk) 22:45, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

WNBA Player Link

The link to the player pages on wnba.com is incorrect and needs to be changed. --Pink Fae (talk) 01:04, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

NBA.com is notorious for changing URL formats without redirecting old urls, so it appears WNBA.com is no different. It appears an old URL like http://www.wnba.com/playerfile/tiffany_jackson-jones is now changed to http://www.wnba.com/player/tiffany-jackson-jones/. The changes include:

1. "playerfile" -> "player"
2. "_" -> "-"

I've tweaked to have the old format coverted to the new format.—Bagumba (talk) 21:07, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Brittney Griner now works. It may take a while for the fix to automatically transclude. If you want to force a specific page to update, you can manually purge it.—Bagumba (talk) 21:11, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Problem with the team field of the template

Hello, I've already noticed a couple of times that this template is giving issues with respect to disambiguation pages. Take Šarūnas Jasikevičius as an example. At the top of the team box, it says he plays for Zalgiris Kaunas, which is another name for the BC Zalgiris basketball team. That team name, at the top of the infobox, is not wikilinked. However, when looking at the links pointing to the Zalgiris Kaunas disambiguation page, the article Jasikevičius shows up. So it is being seen by the system as a wikilinked name.

Since articles shouldn't point to dab pages, and in this case, the link should be pointing to BC Zalgiris, is there a way of fixing this? I've tried by simply wikilinking the team name, but then the infobox loses some of its formatting, and it is being discouraged in the template documentation.

Also, please note the fix should go further than just replacing Zalgiris Kaunas by BC Zalgiris. I also know of similar cases where the articles to be disambiguated have identical names, and they only differ in the fact that they have a disambiguator between parentheses. So the solution should come from either removing that perceived wikilink from the infobox template, or having a way to make it point to the correct article instead. --Midas02 (talk) 04:06, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Midas02, fixed. Frietjes (talk) 15:55, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Colors

Why does this template only use colors 1 and 2 from Module:Basketball color/data? It should also use colors 3 and 4. Joeykai (talk) 14:40, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Could you be more specific? How should the other two colours be used? Alakzi (talk) 14:58, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Personal information and career history could be 3 and 4 and the other headings use 1 and 2 so that it alternates. Joeykai (talk) 15:06, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm not a big fan of alternating colors like in baseball (e.g. Mike Trout). Something like recent change at Template:Infobox NFL player to add borders with the additional colors would be an alternative (see Richard Sherman (American football)).—Bagumba (talk) 17:30, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

I would be fine with either of those, I just think that only having two colors is a bad idea. Joeykai (talk) 18:07, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Joey, I am not a big fan of alternating solid color blocks for the subheaders of sports bio infoboxes. I would also suggest that the darker of the two team colors should be used as the base color for the subheader colors blocks with the lighter team color used as the accent/highlight. If you use the darker team color as the base, then white text will provide the best color-contrast ratio 95 times out of 100. Nobody asked me, but I think the WP:MLB guys made a big mistake with the alternating color blocks, because it often requires different color text to achieve a satisfactory color-contrast ratio. A satisfactory contrast ratio is not really achievable with certain mid-density colors like medium (true) orange, light to medium blue, or medium to dark yellow, where neither black, white, nor other color text provides a truly satsifactory contrast. Even when the alternating solid color blocks provide satisfactory contrast with the text, the alternating solid color blocks are not a particularly professional graphics look. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:00, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

WP:CONTRAST: text color and borders

@Frietjes and Alakzi: Some editors have been changing colors at Module:Basketball color/data to address WP:CONTRAST issues. As a side effect of changing text to white, some infoboxes are no longer distinguishing because many teams use the same base color. As was done at Template_talk:Infobox_NFL_player#WP:CONTRAST_issue, can we have a border added to this infobox that uses a secondary team color?

I'll leave the implementation open ended, but we also need a way to detect basketball colors whose contrast need to be improved. Some examples I've seen are the implementation at Template_talk:Infobox_television_season#Colour, or a table that shows contrast ratios like at Module:College color/data.—Bagumba (talk) 01:54, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

yes, I am planning to expand the table in Module:Basketball color/data to match the table in Module:College color/data, but probably won't get to it until this weekend. Frietjes (talk) 13:48, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I implemented a border at Template:Infobox basketball biography/style for pro teams, but it still needs to be done for college teams. I wasn't ambitious enough to try modifying Module:College color.—Bagumba (talk) 23:56, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Usage of athletic clubs colors?

Colors of athletic clubs in the basketball infoboxes falls to the WP:COLOR, because give not important informations, the choice of colors is controversial and are a reason for edit wars. Also, basketball players are not only members of clubs but maybe are members of national teams too. For these reasons I suggest their removal from the infobox. --IM-yb (talk) 19:13, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

• Uh, no. The use of team colors for athlete and team infoboxes is well established; there are no "edit wars." The major concern we have is making sure that the contrast between background and text colors complies with WP:ACCESS, and great efforts have been made to ensure that color contrast is AAA-compliant throughout the major sports projects. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:40, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Association football, baseball, ice hockey and other sports has not colors of clubs in the players infoboxes. Usage of colors is only for basketball players infoboxes. The reason is not about contrast. Is about WP:COLOR which speaks about colors who gives important informations. What is the important information who gives the colors? Are for identify of the current club? And what about the national teams? The choice of the colors is based in sources or is at the discretion of each user? --IM-yb (talk) 21:05, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

• You are mistaken, IM-yb. We do use team colors for active (as opposed to retired) baseball players in Template:Infobox baseball biography. Team colors selection is not "at the discretion of each user"; the colors used are the colors of the player's current team, and there are entire color modules for each sport that ensure all players of each team have identical colors. See, e.g., Alex Rodriguez, which uses the blue and gray team colors of the New York Yankees. Same for Template:Infobox NFL player, Template:Infobox basketball biography, and Template:Infobox college football player. The infoboxes of most national team members do not utilize team colors, but many do use national flag icons to symbolize national team membership. See, e.g., Template:Infobox swimmer and Template:Infobox ice hockey player. FYI, comparing any other sport to association football would be a mistake; WikiProject Football has its own unique standards for when it uses team colors and flag icons, which are different from every other sport on Wikipedia. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

In each case, the three colors are too mach (i speak for the border) in the infobox. All your examples (about the other sports) has two colors. Most of the teams have two or one official "home" color (with unstable away colors). --IM-yb (talk) 00:51, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Can you provide a specific example of a team color where one of the colors is not associated with the team? Frankly, I don't believe one exists. ~ Rob^Talk 01:36, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

In the Infobox Basketball club of the Olympiacos article [1] someone gives maroon as the color of Olympiacos! We spend many time to find a common acceptable and representative (with good contrast) color in the european clubs, and now we have a third color to manage, because it adopted from that template (Infobox basketball biography). We have and other more important works, except the correction of wrong colors. --IM-yb (talk) 11:22, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

• Wikipedia is a group collaboration, and what is important to one editor might not be important to another. We all get frustrated when we see "unimportant" information that might also be incorrect. Sure it could just be uniformly removed, but the decision to do so would need consensus. At this point, there is no consensus to remove the colors.—Bagumba (talk) 19:52, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

It is not necessary to remove the colors, but at least the third color that does not exist in many teams like this ([2]). --IM-yb (talk) 23:09, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

@IM-yb: What is the concern if a team has a verifiable third color?—Bagumba (talk) 23:26, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

A team may have three and four colors but these teams are minimal. In addition to the other problems, there is always the problem of verification. Where is the verifiable colors? Anyone gives their view about colors (see the third color of Real Madrid Baloncesto, Camel!, even the second color, "black", is doubtful). --IM-yb (talk) 14:36, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

• @Bagumba: Another reason to lock down the color modules; reliable sources should be provided for all team colors, including European teams in the basketball color module. You do realize that many, if not most European association football/soccer teams regularly change their colors, and often have completely different home and away uniform colors, right? Some of the European teams in other sports also have similar team colors "flexibility". No doubt this seems weird to Americans and Canadians, whose college and pro teams have often had the same colors for 50 or even 100 years (Harvard Crimson, anyone? New York Yankees pinstripes?). Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:56, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Background: There's a related discussion at Module talk:College color/data#Request for template protection that DL is indirectly referencing.—Bagumba (talk) 15:38, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
  • DL: As an editor, I add footnotes to 90+% of all my added content, so I'm all for providing reliable sources. However, if you are requesting protection from me as an admin, I'll note that WP:V says: "... any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material." It's unclear that this is all being challenged, as there has been no obvious signs of reverts or discussion at this template. Many WP articles have little if any references, but they are not automatically protected for that reason alone, which would in itself be a barrier towards others improving it. I get that there is frustration when incorrect information is discovered, but that is a content issue to be dealt with through dispute resolution, and not an automatic reason to protect. The problem of inaccurate editing is not unique to this template.—Bagumba (talk) 15:38, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
• @IM-yb: You may want to do a Google search for the official Hex or Pantone colors for the European teams in question. Most American college and professional sports teams actually post their official Hex and/or Pantone team colors somewhere on their websites because it is an important element of their branding. Presumably, some European teams do the same thing. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:01, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

• @IM-yb: - as far as I am aware, each NBA team has three official colours, so reflecting that in the infobox is supported by RS. Do I personally agree with it? No. Is there clear consensus that the colours should remain? Yes. A better compromise would be to make these colour parameters optional, so that if they are not filled in they use standard, default colours. GiantSnowman 21:17, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Dirtlawyer1 I agree that the usage of colors should be based on sources. Bagumba in the examples I quoted were not used sources for colors. Giant where is the clear consensous? The value of color usage can be challenged at any time by any user (WP:CCC). I want to make it clear that I do not intend to create problems for those wishing to use the colors.I mention my views and my legitimate worry about the subject, which were expressed above also based on other users' edits. --IM-yb (talk) 13:43, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

• @IM-yb: Sorry, but I've already spoken my piece here and I'm not going to repeat myself (again, and again) in order to address your personal preferences. If there are no reliable sources for Real Madrid Balconcesto's team colors, then let's remove them from the affected Real Madrid player infoboxes (perhaps making the colors optional for certain teams and/or leagues per GiantSnowman above). But you need to hear the wisdom of what GiantSnowman said: there is a strong consensus to maintain the team colors option within this template, and there are literally hundreds of teams and thousands of players that are affected. And, yes, there is a very strong consensus to maintain the use of team colors for players in the NBA, WNBA, American college basketball and many other leagues around the planet. If you don't like team colors, then start an RfC, but let's recognize that its likelihood of success in removing the team colors option from the template is slim. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:15, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

The consensus is evident in this discussion, and in the fact that this has remained unchallenged for years. GiantSnowman 16:04, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

WNBA stats

Would it be a good idea if the infobox was able to link to WNBA players' stats from basketball reference? Like Sue Bird. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 23:42, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Nvm lol. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 17:35, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Well, you could still add bbr_euro, bbr_nbl and bbr_dleague for players that only played in one of those leagues. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 17:40, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Youth departments

Hello everybody, I suggest we should add a "Youth career" parameter, like Template:Infobox football biography has. There are already high school parameters, but for European players "youth career" is needed. For example, if you view Isaiah Hartenstein's page, it seems like he has been playing pro basketball since 2009 (when he was 11). I think there should be clear separation between youth clubs and pro clubs. I'd like to hear what you think. --H-Hurry (talk) 14:43, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 23 August 2016

Would like to add additional information to the personal life section, including spouse and siblings For example: | spouse =

name

​

(m. )​

Zurich899 (talk) 08:15, 23 August 2016 (UTC)