User talk:Johnbod

This user is one of the 400 most active English Wikipedians of all time.

Dirty angel from the Monumental Cemetery of Staglieno in Genoa, c.1910

DYK for Venus and Musician

On 2 August 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Venus and Musician, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the various versions of Titian's Venus and Musician include organists, lute-players, Cupids, and dogs, but always a nude Venus? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Venus and Musician. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Venus and Musician), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:03, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Gasparo Cairano

Thanks for helping to push this article through to Good status! Feanor0 (talk) 19:35, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Problems?

In light of this, I'd be interested in knowing what past problems (if any) you've had with the GOCE. I joined the project a number of years ago to help improve articles, and "this project has the potential to do harm as well as good" could be applied to any WikiProject. A request for a copyedit is certainly not a denunciation of an article, and is not taken as such; we just do our jobs. Miniapolis 19:50, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

There are several ways that copyediting can go wrong. One is not having the sources and changing the meaning inadvertantly by changing words. Not all words are always synonyms and not consulting the sources when copyediting can result in problems. Another problem is shifting around text and divorcing it from the sources supporting it. I see that one pretty often - people move stuff but don't move the source. Some examples from the article that brought up the diff you highlighted : "with only occasional intervention from deities but a pervasive sense of divinely ordered destiny." which was changed to "with occasional intervention from deities and a pervasive sense of divinely ordered destiny." That changes an oppositional set of statements to two joined statements. Or "Romulus was credited with several religious institutions. He founded the Consualia festival, inviting the neighbouring Sabines to participate;" becomes "Romulus was credited with founding the Consualia festival, where the neighbouring Sabines were invited to participate". Where the fact that Romulus was credited with founding other things than the Consualia was lost. Or "The impressive, costly, and centralised rites to the deities of the Roman state were vastly outnumbered in everyday life by commonplace religious observances pertaining to an individual's domestic and personal deities, the patron divinities of Rome's various neighborhoods and communities, and the often idiosyncratic blends of official, unofficial, local and personal cults that characterised lawful Roman religion." which becomes "Costly and centralised religious rites were vastly outnumbered by commonplace religious observances including those pertaining to an individual's domestic deities or the patron divinities of Rome's various neighborhoods and communities. Lawful Roman religion was characterised by an idiosyncratic blend of official, unofficial, local and personal cults." This lost the fact that the centralised rites were to the state deities. Does the GOCE have a set of training exercises or instructions? Things to be careful of? Any oversight or mentoring for new members? Ealdgyth - Talk 20:10, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) Ever since this string of edits, painstakingly Americanizing an article on a steam railway built to serve a stately home in Buckinghamshire (a topic that only needs an old maid cycling through the mist to the cricket club whilst sipping a warm half of bitter to make it the most quintessentially English topic possible), by an editor who then claimed to have "improved 5000 words" in some GOCE competition despite the fact that every single one of his "improvements" was reverted, I've looked very askance at the GOCE/LOCE. It has a legitimate place in cleaning up articles by people who are knowledgeable about a topic but don't understand appropriate tone or Wikipedia's formatting standards, or by people to whom English isn't a first language and make basic errors. However, when it comes to any kind of remotely complex topic I'm not sure I've ever seen a GOCE/LOCE edit that improved the article—for every thoughtful and intelligent editor there, in my experience there are a dozen tedious edit-warriors who either think the MOS is some kind of holy writ or that their local version of English is the only legitimate one. (A bitchy-but-true comment Ritchie333 once made in a different context rings true to me as well—when you look at someone's contributions and you can't find a single one that actually improves any reader's understanding of any topic, you have to question just why they're here, and GOCE seems to have more than its fair share of people to whom that applies at present.)

TL;DR: "The GOCE has some good people, but it also has a lot of well-intentioned people who are out of their depth, particularly on complex articles which are generally the result of multiple people collaborating, and don't appreciate (or don't care) that 'corrections' can be just as disruptive as an outright vandal or POV-pusher." ‑ Iridescent 20:11, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

I think to some degree problems with GOCE are similar to the problems with editors thinking they can "google-search" their way to a comprehensive article on anything other than the most obscure topic. This is a source review I did the other day on an article at FAC from a very well-meaning but quite new editor. It probably shouldn't be a GA, given the sourcing problems (we had Lulu, AuthorHouse AND PediaPress all as sources!) but its symptomatic of the "solve problems by googling" research a lot of editors do. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:16, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

When it comes to attempting to Google their way to a comprehensive article, this is always my go-to example. ‑ Iridescent 20:27, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the input, and I agree that these are potential pitfalls. Given the painful, term-paper prose of many WP articles, however (even some GAs, and all of which detract from the 'pedia's credibility), I maintain that we do more good than harm; in any case, we do our best. Miniapolis 23:25, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Nice to see this while I've been in the garden, eating etc. I agree with all the above. It is complex subjects with uneven coverage that are especially a problem I think. As for "denouncing", I've said at the project that editors should be encouraged (nagged) to say what they actually think is wrong with an article, rather than just "Hi, this could do with a copyedit" - which might be ok for a new article, or one with weak English, but not Christianity or Islam, two recent suggestions that I've added cautions about on the GOCE page. Johnbod (talk) 00:09, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

I looked over the GOCE help documents and noticed there is no advice on how to work around sources and work WITH sources. It really at the minimum should emphasize that sources need to stay with the information they are sourcing... the lack of that statement is one reason that many people view the GOCE's "help" as less than helpful. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:15, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

I am really sorry to learn of the dissatisfaction of these experienced editors with the Guild of Copy Editors. As far as I know, we cannot prevent editors from joining the project, but I assume that, if a pattern of poor editing is seen, the lead coordinator could persuade them to spend their time elsewhere. I agree that keeping citations with the right material is important; perhaps a short tutorial on this, with examples, could be drawn up. Regarding losing crucial meaning in the process of revising a sentence, I agree that this is something that needs attention. Perhaps it would help a little to draw up a tutorial with several examples to show how to avoid this. I also think that the editor who requested the copy-edit needs to carefully review all the edits made by a copy-editor to ensure that meaning was not changed, and either discuss it with the copy-editor or make a further change to correct the misinformation. If the requesting editor does not check the edits, or does not even see that the meaning was changed, perhaps s/he does not know the subject matter as well as s/he should; the problem may not lie completely with the copy-editor. I try very hard not to change meaning when I copy-edit an article, and if I'm not sure, I sometimes read the source material or leave a comment for the requester, or suggest alternatives from which s/he can choose. If Jonesey95, Miniapolis, and Tdslk think it would be useful, perhaps new participants at GOCE could be assigned to each of us for a while to mentor them, or at least review their edits and make suggestions.  – Corinne (talk) 17:12, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

In the case of the disruption Quainton Road railway station I mention above, it would have been a little difficult to ask the lead coordinator to have words with the editor in question, given that the editor causing the disruption was the GOCE lead coordinator at the time. (Don't get me started on my opinion of any project that sets up its own rank structure, either; I hold WP:MILHIST in contempt for the same reason.) I meant what I said in saying that once one gets either to GA/FA level, or to complex topics where sources with differing POVs need to be sensitively integrated without distorting either meaning or balance, I have never seen a LOCE/GOCE review which didn't cause problems. I agree entirely with Ealdgyth's main point; if someone in any other context were to try to edit an article without access to the sources and just working on their own guesswork regarding what they felt the sources ought to say they'd immediately find themselves at least topic banned and probably blocked, but when it comes to GOCE we're expected to turn a blind eye. ‑ Iridescent 17:45, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

(Current GOCE lead coordinator here to say, since I was pinged:) I am surprised that you have never seen a GOCE copy-edit of a complex article that has not caused problems (a double negative I might work to rephrase, BTW). That has not been my experience at all. Many of our editors, especially those who work on requests, are thanked frequently for their copy-edits. I don't work on requests often, but when I do so, I find that editors on the article's talk page are usually eager to discuss and resolve questions that arise during my editing. Take, for example, my time working on Magna Carta in 2015, during which I engaged in a fruitful talk page conversation with multiple editors. Here is a link to my copy edits of the article during that time, along with additions to the article by those involved editors. The article was nominated as a GA shortly thereafter, and it sailed through its review in 24 hours, being described by a very detail-oriented reviewer as "of extremely high quality" even before the review. As far as I can tell, the GOCE's copy-editing did not cause problems in that case; rather, it enabled the article to pass GAN smoothly by identifying and fixing prose problems before the GA review. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:15, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

I agree with most of what Corinne has said, although I don't have time for much mentoring. FWIW, I may be the last of the GOCE's (relatively) old guard and am surprised at the level of resentment of the wikiproject. We're dedicated amateurs, and you get what you pay for; any issues with a particular copyedit should first be raised with the individual copyeditor. IMO the drives and blitzes have gone a bit overboard, but the only thing I can control is what I do. Our collective hope of whittling down the backlog of articles tagged for copyediting may be unrealistic; for perspective, though, when I came in the backlog was about 8,000 articles and now it's over 1,500 (and rising, since it's much easier to tag than to fix). Miniapolis 17:41, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

I'd just like to add that, like all editors, Wikipedia's volunteer copy-editors can and do learn more and more over time. A kind, informative comment to the copy-editor regarding problematic edits could assist in this learning curve. Some of the things I've learned over the past five years are: idioms, spelling, and word usage of other variants of English; formatting; how to keep a citation with the information if I re-word a sentence; meanings of words other than those I knew before; words to avoid; templates; how Wikipedia articles are generally organized; things I probably shouldn't change before asking the person who was writing or expanding the article; some particularities of Wikipedia's style such as WP:LQ, etc. Also, I'd like to add that when I first started reading articles on Wikipedia, I was astonished at the number of errors in each article that I read. That's what got me started copy-editing. I copy-edited articles for about two years before I even learned about the GOCE. So, I really think that most good copy-editors do make a positive difference in most articles.  – Corinne (talk) 20:04, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

At least two of us here know cases where several "informative comments to the copy-editor regarding problematic edits" produced no positive results at all, in fact the reverse. I'm sure many GOCE people do good work, but the fact remains that anyone can join up, and there seems to be next to no quality control (which after all was originally the mark of a guild). Johnbod (talk) 01:24, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

I hear you, but (a) don't you see similar issues with editors who are not copy-editors? and (b) are you suggesting that the GOCE as a project implement more quality control? If so, do you have any suggestions for how to do that?  – Corinne (talk) 01:35, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Re a) yes, of course, but GOCE editors typically do more in volume terms (per article), and also the style of the requests page makes them feel licenced, even if the request is purely a drive-by one. As examples Christianity and Islam (see above) were added within a short time by different editors claiming to be about to take these to GA/PR/FAC, when in fact both had only a handful of edits (to anything). There may have been a tit-for-tat aspect there. Re b) yes, I am. There are various ways of doing this, none of which are likely to be popular with the editors who need them most, and all rather time-consuming for those doing the work. Somebody has to look at what GOCE people are doing, and feedback on it. Johnbod (talk) 02:07, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

It sounds as though placing a {{Copy edit}} template on the article for which copy-editing is requested—with the "for", or "reason", parameter set to tell of the request being made and warn of imminent changes—could be made part of the requesting process, which currently doesn't require such an alert, which then could be discussed or contested. Dhtwiki (talk) 01:44, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

I think that could help, certainly. One issue at present is that watchers of the article aren't aware that a GOCE request has been made. Johnbod (talk) 04:13, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Well, isn't there a template that anyone can place at the top of an article that s/he thinks needs copy-editing? If so, then perhaps the WP:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors could create a different template that says something to the effect that "A copy-edit has been requested for this article at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests and will take place in the next few weeks", and placing this template at the top of an article could be made part of the process of requesting a copy-edit. Regarding improving copy-editing at the GOCE, perhaps new participants at GOCE could be assigned to one of the coordinators who would review the first few copy-editing efforts and, if the copy-editing shows problems, the copy-editor could be assigned a mentor. Perhaps it should be two mentors: one a GOCE coordinator (or experienced GOCE copy-editor) and the other an experienced content creator/editor. I'd be glad to help mentor new copy-editors. Jonesey95 is about to take a wiki-break, so may not be able to respond until his return.  – Corinne (talk) 17:14, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

My suggestion included using the standard copy edit template with appropriate wording, to avoid having to craft a new template, which shouldn't be too complex a chore, but would require someone with the technical skill, and even special permission (e.g. "template editor" rights), to accomplish. It might be that we (the GOCE) do something as simple as provide boilerplate that we ask requesters to post to the talk page, just something that alerts other article editors of a copy-edit having been requested and gives them a chance to weigh in as to the advisability of such an effort. As far as needing to increase the competency of the Guild, I think we're dealing here with articles curated by editors with a keen grasp of English and capable of writing with nuance above and beyond the usual. Some of us at the Guild might not be alive to the demands of editing such a page, partly because so much of what we encounter—mainly in the backlog, not so much on the Requests page—falls short of basic intelligibility. Copy-editing of such articles as are being discussed here can more reliably be left to the active subject editors. Dhtwiki (talk) 08:38, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Appreciate your input

Hi Johnbod I would greatly appreciate your input here:[1], thanks...Modernist (talk) 01:37, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Venus and Adonis (Titian)

On 19 August 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Venus and Adonis (Titian), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Titian's painting of Venus and Adonis (pictured) exists in "two-dog" and "three-dog" versions? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Venus and Adonis (Titian). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Venus and Adonis (Titian)), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:32, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Flaying of Marsyas

On 20 August 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Flaying of Marsyas, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Titian's Flaying of Marsyas (1570s) shows a satyr being skinned alive by Apollo, and was once the prize in a lottery? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Flaying of Marsyas. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Flaying of Marsyas), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Alex Shih^Talk 00:19, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

National Museum of African Art

I'm prepping the museum's article for FA and have opened it up for peer review (Wikipedia:Peer review/National Museum of African Art/archive1), general edits and a scope/sourcing question. Not sure if art museums fall within your areas of interest but I'm hoping they do and thought I'd ask: If you have the time or interest in taking a look, I'd appreciate your expertise. czar 01:55, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Perseus and Andromeda (Titian)

On 23 August 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Perseus and Andromeda (Titian), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Perseus and Andromeda by Titian "hung unglazed over a bath in Sir Richard Wallace's dressing room" for over 20 years? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Perseus and Andromeda (Titian). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Perseus and Andromeda (Titian)), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Alex Shih^Talk 00:03, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Johnbod. You have new messages at Template:Did you know nominations/American Jewish cuisine.
Message added 02:36, 26 August 2017 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

New hook provided. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:36, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Looks better, but I'm not reviewing this, which I'll make clearer. Johnbod (talk) 02:40, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Teniers'moddeli for the Theatrum Pictorium

Hi Johnbod. Teniers' modelli have never been questioned before. Why do you feel they are not authentic? I am surprised by your edit here. Jane (talk) 11:34, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

The picture was presented as an original by Teniers, which the one in the gallery presumably was not - see the MMA page. Johnbod (talk) 13:53, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

The image therefore should have been properly "presented", not removed. Your edit seemed to me to be destructive rather than collaborative or constructive in this context. Jane (talk) 14:05, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

I was just being consistent with the rest of the article. It is a pity it is completely unreferenced. Johnbod (talk) 14:14, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Well I can't argue with that. It is an interesting subject and I feel that it is sadly very underrepresented in the literature. Jane (talk) 16:28, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Yes, we could do with an article on "gallery pictures" as a genre, which I may do some time. Johnbod (talk) 16:40, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Titian

Really excellent work here recently. They were nearly all on my watchlist, but was especially pleased with the Danaë expansion. Its a fascinating sequence. Ceoil (talk) 14:32, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! Once I started, I can't stop them now. At some point I'll do a group article on the poesie I think (but keeping all the individual ones of course). Johnbod (talk) 14:45, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

The posies would be a great addition. I notice the bio is also very strong, your work again, later touched up during that house of commons nonsense a few years back - those were the days when only that level of incompetence was all we had to deal with :) I have a preference for his mid to late period, post 1550, work. For me its "mostly" about the portraits. Ceoil (talk) 15:15, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

I just got Hale, Sheila, Titian, His Life, 2012, Harper Press, ISBN 978-0-00717582-6, all 800-odd pages, (only £6 hb inc p&p on Amazon, as some plates had come loose) so have been looking at the bio, which does the job (unlike most old masters), but is rather listy. As you can see, I've mostly been concentrating on his girl power side over the summer. I now forget what got me started on him. Johnbod (talk) 18:01, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

There is a lot to be said for focusing on sequences of articles, when you are immersed in the sources and its all fresh in the mind. I'm also inclined towards girl power; strong female protagonists seem to dominate his most successful work, also my life, fortunately! Ceoil (talk) 14:34, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

I'd put your talk page on my watchlist during the dogs in art discussions, and must second the motion of your good work on the Titian (and many other) pages. On the byways of art pages I keep seeing you, Another Believer, and others who really have shared their talents with the world. Thanks. And I should check out and become more familiar with your work more, Ceoil, and I see you have an image of poor Lizzie on your user page. Amazing stories and editor's expansions of the Pre-Raphaelite group. Can you both take a look at the Camille Claudel page if you get a chance, I've only learned of her a couple of months ago and her life is really in need of a major film in English. Thanks again. Randy Kryn (talk) 19:07, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Chartwell

Johnbod - first, thanks again for taking the time to review. It's much appreciated and your comments were very helpful. If I've addressed them all, would you be kind enough to stick a "Support" at the front. Obviously, if there's anything you're still concerned about, just let me know. Thanks again and all best wishes. KJP1 (talk) 16:54, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Johnbod, I'm really sorry to turn into a shrew, but I think we could wrap Chartwell up if you were able to indicate your Support. I wouldn't nag but there are a couple of other things I'm keen to crack on with and it would be good to put this one to bed. As before, give me a shout if there are still issues of concern. KJP1 (talk) 20:06, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

DYK nomination of The Tribute Money (Titian)

Hello! Your submission of The Tribute Money (Titian) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:19, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

The Last Judgement (Michelangelo)

I've reverted your revert -- there was a relatively lengthy discussion in IRC about the paragraph, and multiple editors had issues with its phrasing. This way, it is far more clear. Thank you for your ongoing work with the article. I'd be curious to read the section on this in the source, though, since it's quite an interesting topic. Keira1996 02:39, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

I'll leave the article, since I've absolutely no interest in edit warring over it, but I'm interested to see how you feel it's not an improvement? There's a few parts there with awkward phrasing: "had given trouble from the start", "The site is on sandy soil, draining a large area, and the preceding "Great Chapel" had had similar problems.", lintel "to" the doorway as opposed to of, etc. Using talk pages is only necessary for building consensus, otherwise WP:BB applies, and I hardly feel an editor bringing up a paragraph for second/third opinions requires posting in a talk page... Keira1996 15:31, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Un-neccessary passive voices, faux-technical language such as "erection". I see no awkwardness where you do, and you introduced a confusing tense change re the site. You shouldn't have "a relatively lengthy discussion in IRC" just with your pals, and should certainly not then cite this unseen discussion to back up your changes. Johnbod (talk) 15:46, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

These are editors who I've had absolutely no interaction with before, and one of them raised it, not me. As I said, I'm not interested in edit warring over a minor copy edit, though I would advise a careful read of WP:OWN. Your avoidance of the passive voice is very Orwellian, though! Keira1996 06:38, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Oh, I thought you weren't going to edit war! Johnbod (talk) 13:55, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Pedantic

Whew! Glad you caught that! Coretheapple (talk) 12:42, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

September 2017

Please do not assume ownership of articles as you did at The Last Judgment (Michelangelo). If you aren't willing to allow your contributions to be edited extensively or be redistributed by others, please do not submit them. Thank you. Keira1996 14:04, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Oh don't be silly. The point is, my version, as amended, is better than your committee's, with the problems touched on above. Johnbod (talk) 14:09, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

My committee? Hilarious. I've had zero interaction with any of these editors before, the one who changed again (with differences to mine, mind you) was not even present for the original discussion... I wasn't even the one who brought up the change, just the one stupid enough to try and maintain it. Keira1996 14:13, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Popes

I've been checking the pope articles for those idiosyncratic entries. Please see Pope Callixtus I, Pope Urban I and Pope Stephen I. It appears that Job Labasan is reinstating those edits both you and User:Kansas Bear reverted. What good does it do to try and clean it up, if he just keeps adding it? Mannanan51 (talk) 18:55, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Dear Johnbod: I have checked all the edits by 58.69.101.221 that I could find. Also popes fr Peter through Pope Clement VII; the interesting and picturesque edits seemed to have stopped w Alexander VI. My Talk page shows the current status as far as I know at this time; (some of the listings I will move to the sandbox). I will next be looking at the edits done by 49.147.191.157, who seems to be connected. It appears this may be out of some school in the Phillipines. Cheers. Mannanan51 (talk) 05:31, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Many thanks for this work! The edits certainly seem to have a Phillipine background. As for reversions, once the issue has been raised, and is recorded in the edit summaries, in the long run good sense usually wins out. Johnbod (talk) 14:16, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

While I was posting this, a block was placed on the user. I've decided not to post this on that Talk page. **My apologies. I have no preference at all regarding the images of the various pontiffs. But in light of a raft of edits from various users with similar names, urls, and modus operandi, all throwing a barrage of edits at papal infoboxes going back to September 1, (and twice noted on the wikiproject Talk page, 'though not by me) which were reverted by a number of different users and blocked by one, I suppose, at some point, I had come to view his/her/their edits as somewhat suspect. Point taken. In the future, I will abstain from reverting Kim, Job, Jobee, John, Jobee Dalog, or any of his/her/their alter egos. Mannanan51 (talk) 03:31, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I didn't notice the similar user names till after I had reverted all the edits (now done). Keep up the good work! Johnbod (talk) 03:35, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for your additions to Birds' Head Haggadah. I don't have access to the Meyer Schapiro essay; glad you do. Yoninah (talk) 21:07, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

No problem! Delighted to see the article. Johnbod (talk) 23:28, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

DYK for The Tribute Money (Titian)

On 25 September 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article The Tribute Money (Titian), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Titian's The Tribute Money (1516) (pictured) was painted to be a cupboard door? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The Tribute Money (Titian). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, The Tribute Money (Titian)), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Vanamonde (talk) 12:02, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Anonimo Gaddiano

How about we discuss edits in a civilized fashion -- in a talk space -- before we engage in blindly undoing stuff?

• Is it not the standard convention, in wikipedia, to list disambiguations in a top note, rather than as a footnote?
• You have undone a fix made to the reflist. ????? Without even looking? Is that true?
• The header for a reflist is Reference. Take a closer look here.
• There should be only one reference to the Weirda article, as the second citation is Wikipedia Italia.
• please link to the exact mention of Anonima Gaddiano as an author - as I came across my references in a book and my google does NOT give me a link where it is used to reference an author.

Fb2ts (talk) 16:32, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

You should never cite anything to any WP. The search above gives several clear instances where it is used as an author name - we do not call book "he"! Try pp 117-118 here. No, the header for notes is not "references" in most articles - look at FAs. And so on. Johnbod (talk) 16:42, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Pietà (Titian)

On 27 September 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Pietà (Titian), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Titian intended his painting of the Pietà to hang over his grave, but it never did? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Pietà (Titian). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Pietà (Titian)), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 01:03, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject Women in Red/The World Contest

Hi. Thankyou for your participation in the challenge series or/and contests. In November The Women in Red World Contest is being held to try to produce new articles for as many countries worldwide and occupations as possible. There will be over $4000 in prizes to win, including Amazon vouchers and paid subscriptions. If this would appeal to you and you think you'd be interested in contributing new articles on women during this month for your region or wherever please sign up in the participants section. If you're not interested in prize money yourself but are willing to participate and raise money to buy books about women for others to use, this is also fine. Thankyou, and if taking part, good luck!♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:21, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Questions

Hello Johnbod, I have few questions about DYK. Can lists be nominated for DYK ? Also, is it necessary that the article is expanded if the article is nominated before 7 days of creation ? Please reply at the quickest. Thanks and regards, 2.51.18.94 (talk) 14:04, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I'm not the best person to ask, but I think: No for lists; Normally yes, but some latitude may be given by reviewers, especially to new editors there. Hope that helps, Johnbod (talk) 14:20, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 2

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Niello, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Panther (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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COI edits for a GLAM

Hey John, I am supporting the development of a GLAM project with an institution in the United States, and they made some suggestions for edits at Talk:Yiddish_Book_Center#RE:_citation_clarification. Do you think you could take a look at that? I know there was a window of time where you reviewed and checked on contributions by other organizations to Wikipedia -- do you think you could review those? Thanks much, Sadads (talk) 15:55, 4 October 2017 (UTC) Hey - done that - see the talk. Johnbod (talk) 18:01, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject Women in Red/The World Contest

Hi. Thankyou for your participation in the challenge series or/and contests. In November The Women in Red World Contest is being held to try to produce new articles for as many countries worldwide and occupations as possible. There will be over $4000 in prizes to win, including Amazon vouchers and paid subscriptions. If this would appeal to you and you think you'd be interested in contributing new articles on women during this month for your region or wherever please sign up in the participants section. The articles done may also count towards the ongoing challenge. If you're not interested in prize money yourself but are willing to participate and raise money to buy books about women for others to use, this is also fine. Help would also be appreciated in drawing up the lists of missing articles. If you think of any missing articles please add them to the sub lists by continent at Missing articles. Thankyou, and if taking part, good luck!♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:32, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

DYK for The Gypsy Madonna

On 6 October 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article The Gypsy Madonna, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the landscape in Titian's Gypsy Madonna (pictured) virtually repeats part of that in the Dresden Venus? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The Gypsy Madonna. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, The Gypsy Madonna), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Alex Shih^Talk 03:16, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 10

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

Mazer (drinking vessel) (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

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added links pointing to Maplewood and Mazer

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Discussion at Talk:Michael Portillo#Infobox proposal

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Michael Portillo#Infobox proposal. Smerus (talk) 11:05, 11 October 2017 (UTC)Template:Z48

Peer Review of Fawad Khan

Hi! I've requested a peer review for Fawad Khan, it was listed as GA but failed FAC. It'd be kind of you to review it.(Wikipedia:Peer review/Fawad Khan/archive1). Thanks Amirk94391 (talk) 04:01, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Anonimo Gaddiano

Hello! Your submission of Anonimo Gaddiano at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Jon Kolbert (talk) 18:20, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Boiled leather

Hello! Your submission of Boiled leather at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Andrew D. (talk) 20:13, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

diff bw our def of primary source and generally accepted one

• Johnbod, quite some time ago I asked at PR is a govt report of Bengal famine of 1943 is a primary source. You said No, Wikipedia's def differs from common understanding. Could you explain/elaborate, please? Tks  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 22:25, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

WP:PRIMARY defines them as: "* Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved. They offer an insider's view of an event, a period of history, a work of art, a political decision, and so on. Primary sources may or may not be independent or third-party sources. An account of a traffic incident written by a witness is a primary source of information about the event; similarly, a scientific paper documenting a new experiment conducted by the author is a primary source on the outcome of that experiment. Historical documents such as diaries are primary sources." This is not the usual definition, excluding sources that are not very close to the events, but are old, not written to modern historical standards etc. Johnbod (talk) 02:17, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

If the British govt of India issued a report in 1946 about a huge famine in 44-45, and if several of the authors were in India (some in Bengal) during that famine, would that be a primary source in Wikipedia's view? Tks.  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 03:51, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps not, if we follow what our policies actually say! Johnbod (talk) 03:37, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. It's gonna languish untouched in PR for a month or so, then take another bitter gust of wind in the face when I move it to FAC. I won't mention your name when I make that argument re Primary. Tks again.  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 11:36, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Anonimo Gaddiano

On 28 October 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Anonimo Gaddiano, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the brief biographies of Italian artists by the Anonimo Gaddiano were written before Vasari's Lives of 1550, but not published until 1892? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Anonimo Gaddiano. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Anonimo Gaddiano), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 00:03, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia Asian Month 2017: Invitation to Participate

Hello! Last year, you signed up to participate in Wikipedia Asian Month (WAM) 2016 on the English Wikipedia. The event was an international success, with hundreds of editors creating thousands of articles on Asian topics across dozens of different language versions of Wikipedia.

I'd like to invite you to join us for Wikipedia Asian Month 2017, which once again lasts through the month of November. The goal is for users to create new articles on Asian-related content, each at least 3,000 bytes and 300 words in length. Editors who create at least four articles will receive a Wikipedia Asian Month postcard!

Also be sure to check out the Wikipedia Asian Art Month affiliate event - creating articles on Asian art topics can get you a Metropolitan Museum of Art postcard!

If you're interested, please sign up here for the English Wikipedia. If you are interested in also working on other language editions of Wikipedia, please visit the meta page to see other participating projects. If you have any questions, please visit our talk page.

Thank you!

- User:SuperHamster and User:Titodutta on behalf of The English Wikipedia WAM Team

This will be the last message you receive from the English Wikipedia WAM team for being a 2016 participant. If you sign up for WAM 2017, you will continue receiving periodic updates on the 2017 event.

Art patronage of George Villiers, 1st Duke of Buckingham

I have just merged back the art patronage article to its original home, as discussed on the George Villiers, 1st Duke of Buckingham talk page back in September. The trouble is, I don't know how to dispose of the art patronage article's title page. The best I could do was blank the article and put a redirect. Could you sort it out, if you have that expertise? Sweetpool50 (talk) 15:30, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

I've asked. AA is the go-to guy on merges etc. Johnbod (talk) 15:36, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Ottonian dynasty

saying its three kings infers that it only had three kings, saying three of its kings means they had more kings but only three were named Otto. That is not poor English it changes the meaning entirely.