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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Really there's no particular reason to relist a third time here. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:55, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Phil McGuinness

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Fails WP:NAFL and most likely fails WP:GNG, no references in article to establish notability and cannot find any other sources about him. Flickerd (talk) 10:54, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. MassiveYR ♠ 12:55, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete for the moment, but open to changing my mind if sources can be provided. 200 games in the SANFL, even if they were all when it was a second-level competition, is a reasonable achievement and he could meet WP:NAFL criterion #3 if significant coverage in independent reliable sources can be demonstrated. I had a look but couldn't find anything easily myself. Someone might need access to the Adelaide Advertiser archives of the 1990s to really be sure – if someone can find a couple of decent length articles there primarily about McGuinness then I would be willing to change to keep. Jenks24 (talk) 13:06, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:50, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep >200 games, Premierships & a B&F indicates a significant career in the second level state league, 2 articles listed indicates GNG is likely, especially given how poorly the 1990s are covered online. The-Pope (talk) 13:04, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Coment I was able to find a couple of early 2000s articles on Factiva and EBSCOhost that deal primarily with him. I suspect that if someone was to visit the newspaper archive at the State Library in Adelaide, they would find be able to find some coverage of his earlier career. Hack (talk) 16:14, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 03:18, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 05:23, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Three users have advanced "keep" arguments, among whom only one has produced sources in support. A spot-check of those sources do not demonstrate clear-cut notability (one of them, for instance, appears to be a review of a book published by this club). Therefore, I see a consensus to delete. Vanamonde (talk) 07:57, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tennis and Badminton Club of Reykjavik

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Non-notable organization, lack of GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 20:13, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iceland-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 20:28, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 20:28, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:14, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep notable badminton organization. This is the oldest badminton club in Iceland. Lack of GNG doesn't mean this article is non-notable. Stvbastian (talk) 05:18, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

By definition, lack of WP:GNG means the article is non-notable. Ifnord (talk) 22:13, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment There are around nine thousand results on Google for TBR (the short name for the club) on Morgunblaðið (the countries oldest national newspaper) website alone. Then you you have the possibility to search for both the full Icelandic and English name, and also expand the search to Fréttablaðið and RÚV websites who are the other two major national news organizations in the country. Just out of curiosity, did you do the proper procedure and "do the necessary homework and look for sources yourself, and invite discussion on the talk page by using the {{notability}} template" as is stated under the Wikipedia:Guide_to_deletion? -- Dammit_steve (talk) 09:46, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep notable badminton organization. See also interwikis. 20+ national team titles in Iceland. Florentyna (talk) 23:25, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 20:35, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep this is certainly notable and meets WP:GNG as the biggest club in a country. Only that the article didn't get attention for long, but that doesn't strip it of notability per WP:NEXIST — Ammarpad (talk) 06:04, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. If reliable sources exist, then why is nobody citing any? Old it may be, but if nobody comes up with actual sources then we have nothing to base an article on. Sandstein 21:04, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 05:22, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom and User:Sandstein. As I mentioned above, with no claims to notability, the article fails WP:GNG. Ifnord (talk) 22:13, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - It's not enough for something to be the oldest "something" - there must also be media sources covering the group to meet Wikipedia guidelines. I visited the Morgunblaðið site and searched for TBR [[1]], but the only coverage I can find appears to be match results. I also went to Fréttablaðið to search for TBR [[2]]. Same thing - just routine match results. This is what you'd see in the local news coverage of a local paper. What we'd like to see in order to demonstrate notability is in depth coverage of the group itself. If indeed it is the largest club in Iceland one would expect to see some coverage to that effect, and also some coverage outside the country in foreign publications. This article is so short now that there's no harm in deleting it - if any sources come up and anyone takes an interest, it can be recreated with more meat. It has been in this same sparse condition for almost 13 years. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 22:17, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. There are 2 refs, a facebook page and a link to the club website. Interested editors have had two weeks to source the article but have been unable to do so. Szzuk (talk)
Delete No surprises to me that the {{Unreferenced}} banner-template was removed at the same time as the two Ext links unacceptable as references were added in 2010. I've also considered WP:CCS when !voting delete.-Semperito (talk) 22:36, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep As stated, it is a fairly old club so older sources could be difficult to find. For older Icelandic news, timarit.is is a good source. However, the search in older issues is not perfect (Looks like they automaticaly scanned the words in the papers, it doesn't always work as some letters are wrong). To complicate it a bit more, you also have to search for either the full Icelandic name (Tennis- og badmintonfélag Reykjavíkur) or the short version (TBR). Still, a 5 minutes search turned up some sources. Like this one from 1964 (Page 5 and 9). Another from 1964 (Starts on page 5, continues on page 8). From 1966. Here is one from 1999 -- Dammit_steve (talk) 10:41, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Mostly per Sandstein. I am happy- keen, even- to be convinced that there are sources out there; but, as the feller says, in that case where are they? WP:OFFLINE, is, after all supplementary to WP:V, so we need the second before the first. — fortunavelut luna^{Rarely receiving (many) pings. Bizarre.} 11:02, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I actually did point to a few new sources above your answer and I've added them to the article. -- Dammit_steve (talk) 12:04, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It seems bizarre that we are wasting time debating - and trawling up little-more than passing historic mentions (one being a book-review of the club's primary-source publication) only by virtue of modern facilities - keeping something on En Wiki that does not appear on Is Wiki?. Those of you with Chrome may do better than me trying to copy/paste, then machine-translate, the scanned .pdf text. It all smacks of Law of Diminishing Returns.
If it's so important to some editors, instead of insisting on keeping as-is, think about redirect/merge - a few lines only without the infobox - to Reykjavík#Sports teams? This make more sense? This does not imply I've changed my 'delete' !vote.-Semperito (talk) 17:11, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Oldest badminton club in Iceland -Selenemoon (talk) 21:51, 23 November 2017 (UTC) — Selenemoon (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Blocked sock. Mz7 (talk) 07:41, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Being the oldest badminton club of Iceland doesn't make the subject notable. Irrespective of its standing in the society, the subject has to pass WP:GNG to have an article here. Even WP:NEXIST says that suitable sources (suitable independent, reliable sources) must exist, which is not the case here. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 04:36, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to America East Conference Men's Soccer Tournament. I've been going back and forth between no consensus and redirect for a while here, but I seem to have settled on redirect as the fairest option. As far as actual valid arguments go (and there are plenty of invalid ones to sift through), there is fairly even disagreement over whether the sources provided clear the bar of WP:ROUTINE (sources must be more than routine), and also whether WP:SIGCOV is met by the sources provided, some of which are regional roundups and some of which seem to discuss individual games - some not even in the tournament - as opposed to the entire tournament. (Note that WP:OSE goes both ways - while the existence of articles for other conferences' tournaments does not affect the suitability of this one for an article, nor does the non-existence of articles for other years' tournaments for this conference.) In the end, though, the vast majority of the scant information that is covered by the potentially notability-giving sources is already included in the redirect target, so the content is generally maintained anyways, just in a different place.

I would also encourage those inclined to start a discussion about tournament notability as Tim Templeton suggests; as Govvy says college sports (especially association football) are really in the WP:NSPORTS gray area. I note that several people have suggested that WP:NSEASONS applies, but it doesn't - that portion as currently worded is for individual team seasons, and tournaments in general aren't mentioned outside of specific sports on the WP:NSPORTS page. ansh 666 08:31, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

2017 America East Men's Soccer Tournament

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The previous season was deleted by AfD at the start of this year. (See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2016 America East Conference men's soccer season.) This article fails the relevant notability guidelines (WP:NSEASONS, WP:GNG) for the same reasons. Sir Sputnik (talk) 23:38, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 23:39, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 23:39, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @Sir Sputnik:, with all due respect, how many citations to relevant, third party links are you looking for until you vacate yourself from the WP:IDONTLIKEIT? Quidster4040 (talk) 02:51, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Keep - Per my comment above, the article meets the notability guidelines of WP:NSEASONS for the following reasons:
- Per WP:NSEASONS, "Team season (or in this case tournament) articles should consist mainly of well-sourced prose, not just statistics and lists of players". We should aspire for these pages to not fall under WP:NOTDIR. The following sources are cited to cover the relevant topics of information in this article, as in, where it is, who played, and who contested the championship, and what was the outcome for the finalists.

America East website, for official organization verification
Albany Student Press
Burlington Free Press
Baltimore Sun
Lowell Sun
I'm also confident if further citations are needed beyond these third party sources that covered the tournament, we could find plenty of information, analysis from the likes of the NCAA website, TopDrawerSoccer, SBI, SoccerAmerica, and other publications that exclusively cover soccer. Not having enough citations, and yes, only seven citations is quite a lowly number, does not constitute the article therefore fails WP:NSEASONS

- Next, the nominator believes that this article does not meet WP:GNG. The article actually does meet GNG for the following reasons:
  - First concern may be it does not meet WP:SIGCOV. A quick Google search of "America East college soccer" results in 1,950,000 pages. A news search brings back 3,970,000 results. A search explicity for "college soccer news" draws 8,400,000 results. The first pages of these results shows extensive coverage of the tournament from third party sources, newspapers, sports-focused websites and soccer-focused websites. Clearly, this meets the significant coverage criteria. So let's move on...
  - Reliable sources is the next concern potentially. So what is a secondary source? I think all the listed articles that detail and explain that are beyond the athletics websites are good barometers. So here are 10 links that focus or discuss on the A-East Tournament. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. I think this meets enough secondary sourcing beyond the main athletic websites.
  - Multiple sources expected. Article has seven sources, and could easily have close to 20. Meets criteria.
  - Independent sources. All these websites, sans perhaps the Albany Student Press (although it is not an athletics website), are independent on the tournament, meaning we might have just 19 sources in this discussion.
  - Final concern would be WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Are these just brief summaries? No these articles feature interviews, summaries on the season, perspectives and explain the match more than just a box score.

That being said, I strongly believe it is safe to say that this article easily meets WP:NSEASONS and WP:GNG. I'm deeply worried that the nomination was made out of WP:IDONTLIKEIT rather than thoroughly examining whether or not the article truly meets GNG and NSEASONS. Quidster4040 (talk) 03:26, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - no evidence of notability. GiantSnowman 11:43, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment let's actually provide reasons for supporting a deletion, instead of a WP:JUSTNOTNOTABLE argument. Quidster4040 (talk) 15:38, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - No independent notability but a plausible search term. Sourcing in the article shows individual matches get some local level reporting, but so does pretty much every league in countries where football is popular. I'm not seeing any specific coverage of the season as a whole event. Fenix down (talk) 13:19, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- This article's about the tournament, not the whole season. Tournaments generally get more coverage. Smartyllama (talk) 14:49, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Sources clearly indicate significant coverage of the tournament. I too am concerned that this is a WP:IDONTLIKEIT nomination. There are plenty of sources. Knock it off. Smartyllama (talk) 14:49, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Individual match reports =/= coverage of the tournament. Where are the articles on the tournament as an event in itself? Happy to accept the tournament is notable, happy to accept the teams are notable. This doesn't mean that individual iterations of the tournament are notable in themselves. They need to show GNG as an independent subject. For example, are there any articles from third parties previewing the tournament as a whole or summarizing the tournament post completion? Bringing together disparate match reports and saying that = GNG is too much like WP:SYNTH for my liking. Fenix down (talk) 15:20, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, per my reason above, if you take the time to read my post, you would see that there are more than just match reports. Quidster4040 (talk) 15:35, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments I really don't understand why you are applying WP:NSEASONS to this, this comes under WP:SPORTSEVENT, also is the competition competitive or friendly, and where does it sit in the ladder, American soccer seems to do my head in sometimes for being so poorly organised. Govvy (talk) 15:42, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's quite organized, there is simply a lot of bureaucracy at this level of the sport in the U.S. that can make it look like a hot mess. This tournament that is being nominated for deletion is a competitive tournament, and part of college soccer in the United States. In the U.S., college/university sports (especially American football and basketball) are generally very popular and do serve as avenues for nurturing professional athletes. This tournament is the championship for the America East Conference, one of the 20 conferences that play in the National Collegiate Athletic Association's first division. (There are three divisions). Each conference at this level selects one team to receive an automatic berth in the NCAA Tournament, which is what this tournament's purpose is for. At the top collegiate division, there is normally significant press coverage, as these tournaments can exhibit future soccer players that may play in MLS or USL. Several professional footballers such as Clint Dempsey, Vedad Ibišević, Neven Subotić, Santiago Solari, Alexi Lalas and Alejandro Bedoya played college soccer in the United States before turning pro. Nowadays, many pro athletes in MLS go through the academy ranks, but college soccer does serve as a net for players that may have been overlooked at the academy level. Quidster4040 (talk) 16:08, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep. It is an article that would otherwise be a redlink in the navbox (Template:2017 NCAA Division I men's soccer season) at the bottom of the page. No reason to delete it. PCN02 WPS 19:39, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Other stuff exists is not a valid reason for keeping an article. Sir Sputnik (talk) 20:03, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Then edit the link out of the template. Elapsed time, six seconds. Sheesh. Ravenswing 06:59, 17 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep - I think the above keep votes have some weight, I'll look for more independent coverage. Still a tad unsure of the tournament's long term coverage or if it meets WP:GNG. Inter&anthro (talk) 21:45, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:44, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:44, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: A powerful lot of turgid and irrelevant arguments here. First off, this just fails SIGCOV and ROUTINE; despite airy assertions that sources exist that discuss this particular season of this particular tournament in the "significant detail" the GNG requires, none have been produced, and the article is free of aforementioned "well-sourced prose." It is not a valid defense at AfD to assert that qualifying sources may exist; they must be shown to exist. I'm unmoved (and hope the closing admin is likewise unmoved) by simple lists of the media outlets providing this tournament with routine sports coverage.
Beyond that, whether players in this tournament go on to professional soccer, is "part of college soccer" (we did notice that, thanks), whether pro players once played college soccer and whether this particular tournament was competitive are just plain irrelevant to the discussion. Was this a tournament that people played in, attended and followed? Seems so. Does any of this have anything to do with whether it meets the requirements for a Wikipedia article? No. Ravenswing 06:59, 17 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This argument seems more fixed on WP:ATTP and WP:IDONTLIKEIT with assumption that the pro-keep argument is "turgid" or "irrelevant". If you read my argument it definitely follows under the WP:SIGCOV umbrella. The point that it receives coverage, especially from a wealth of sources certainly fits the SIGCOV narrative. Quidster4040 (talk) 20:44, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: A lot of non-notable players and this tournament imo is not notable. Also, Ravenswing's points are valid. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 23:45, 17 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - the tournament determines an automatic entrant into the NCAA Division I Men's Soccer Championship, which makes it notable. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 00:17, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Could you link to the notability criterion that satisfies? Certainly not WP:SPORTSEVENT, which governs the notability of individual series. In any event, notability not being inherited, its connection with the NCAA soccer championship is irrelevant. Ravenswing 01:45, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NSEASONS says:

A season including a post-season appearance (or, if there is no post-season competition, a high final ranking) in the top collegiate level is often notable.

This tournament sends a winner to a post season appearance. Division I is the top collegiate level. I'm interpreting that to show notability. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 18:16, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 05:21, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Ravenswing is correct, sources must shown to exist. Yes, there's plenty of routine coverage, but in depth coverage of the tournament is required. PhilKnight (talk) 01:01, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting per my closing comment at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2017 November 30, so that a clearer consensus may emerge.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (talk) 10:25, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Opining because I've reviewed the sources and the arguments here, but am now too deep into this to close it. After having read the sources in question, I do not see them as providing anything more than routine coverage of the matches and teams in question. I do not see them as going far enough towards establishing the notability of the tournament itself: they possibly establish notability for the seasons of the individual teams, but I'm uncertain about that, too. Vanamonde (talk) 11:09, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm relatively new to this whole process, so I don't really understand why this was closed in the first place. Those advocating delete aren't really citing (or at least linking to) any Wikipedia policies that state why the sourcing is inadequate and what is required for the article to be notable. Could somebody clarify this? I too worry that the nature of the arguments made leans more towards WP:IDONTLIKEIT rather than actually making arguments against the article. Jay eyem (talk) 17:26, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep After re-reading a lot of the comments and earlier arguments, I'm weakly in favor of keeping the article. I share some of Ravenswing's concerns regarding WP:SPORTSEVENT but I'm wondering where the line gets drawn concerning the first bullet "The final series... determining the champion of a top league". WP Footy is already not very receptive towards college soccer and the line needs to be drawn somewhere, and I'm not really sure where that somewhere should be. I think it's worth pointing out that since my previous comment three days ago no additional wikipedia policies or guidelines have been linked to dispute the article. I also find it off-putting that Quidster's arguments were not rebutted and were casually ignored, and that the article was initially deleted anyway. We need to do better to come up with a consensus. Jay eyem (talk) 02:59, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Jay eyem: I was subconsciously thinking the same thing, and I'm glad someone caught on. It's that type of potentially deliberate ignoring that continues to tempt me that it was a JDL, bad faith nomination, and bad faith deletion. I don't want to take anything away from Raven's comments, which I personally disagree with, but it is unsettling that one fleshed out delete argument is supposedly good enough for a deletion whereas three, perhaps four fleshed out keep arguments are disregarded. Baffles me that others would wonder why I would then be tempted that I feel it's JDL. As far as WP:FOOTY is concerned, I think part of it is they have a general ignorance to the sport of college soccer primarily due to many of them being from outside the U.S. and may not have an understanding, or willingness to understand for that matter, the relevance of collegiate soccer in North America. For now though, I think WP:CSOC is a decent task force to keep that JDL party in check. Quidster4040 (talk) 15:06, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Arguing in the alternative, I propose a Redirect to the page America East Conference Men's Soccer Tournament as this is a plausible search term. Jay eyem (talk) 16:27, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments, I got pinged because I commented on this earlier, my opinion is that GNG or not, it seems to fail NSeasons to me. But I am neither for keeping or deleting, because it's college soccer and not professional soccer I tend to stay away from these articles, it's a grey area in wiki-policy. Govvy (talk) 18:20, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I was pinged as an earlier commentator, and voted to keep, but I also agree that the general coverage is weak. This is partly because of soccer's lower status in the US, and partly because this is not a "Big Five" type conference; correspondingly, members of this conference don't tend to win the NCAA tournament. The majority of the coverage is therefore institutional. Nonetheless, I hope one day we will see an agreed upon policy that any postseason tournament in the following major Division I sports (baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer) with a tournament that automatically sends the champion to the NCAA is notable. With the long tail of knowledge, there will always be an audience for this information, and that's what the encyclopedia is about. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 23:37, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That pretty much reinforces why I feel like this was a WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT, bad faith nomination. Quidster4040 (talk) 00:04, 4 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

weak keep Sources discuss specific games and teams at the tournament, but I'm not seeing a solid RS that covers the tournament itself. If someone can find one, I'd probably jump to a regular keep. But most (all?) the the tournament did see coverage--just very spread out. I think it's not at all clear from our rules. Oh, I think "routine" coverage is basically box scores etc, not high-prose articles in RSes. So I reject that argument at least. Hobit (talk) 23:42, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Thank you @Vanamonde93: for re-opening the discussion to see if a consensus can be reached. Quidster4040 (talk) 03:32, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, I'm shocked that the article was deleted in the first place, especially when there is one compelling delete argument, by Ravenswing, which feels partially WP:IDONTLIKEIT by their tone. That, and the remaining delete votes are WP:JNN (ahem, Snowman and Sports1234), WP:DIDNOTWIN (because it's a smaller Division I conference) and WP:VAGUEWAVE (nominator) arguments. The keep votes may point to a handful of suspect links, but the Albany Press, BFP, and Baltimore Sun bits show enough notability to meet WP:GNG: they're independent of the athletic website, they recap the tournament, and furthermore, they provide details on the tournament and what is at stake in the tournament. Plus, if we do some routine TopDrawerSoccer.com, CollegeSoccerNews.com, SBI and Soccer America coverage of the sport and conference is enough to also meet WP:SUSTAINED. Cobyan02069 (talk) 12:49, 3 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep— It was deleted without due cause before, and it is more notable now... GWFrog (talk) 21:11, 3 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm more tempted that the original admin's closure saying he "wasn't impressed" with the sources provided seems like JDL quip. I cannot continue to stress enough that routine coverage is met with these links, which Hobbit describes as websites showing box scores is more than enough to meet routine coverage. What is the admin looking for them to feel compelled to realize it meets GNG/SIGCOV? A freaking Sports Illustrated quadruple-page cover story on the depths of this tournament? Quidster4040 (talk) 00:20, 4 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm in favor of keeping it, but in the closing admin's defense, the fact that routine coverage exists is not usually used to support keeping articles but instead to support their deletion. Box scores are a perfect example of routine coverage. We usually like to see more than routine coverage. In this case, I'm basing notability on the tournament's linkage to the NCAA tournament. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 01:16, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, Wikipedia is not a sports almanac. No material content other than stats and match results. Quidster4040 is encouraged to read WP:BLUDGEON. Stifle (talk) 12:16, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:GNG. HindWiki^Connect 14:57, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you feel that way, @HindWIKI:? I don't think WP:JNN is good enough. Cobyan02069 (talk) 00:57, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, I feel universally at this point there is NC (fair points from Quidster and Ravenswung both for and against), if the final call is Keep, that's fine and I wouldn't have any further comment. However, if the consensus manages to swing towards delete, we should instead consider to redirect to America East Conference Men's Soccer Tournament, because it's a plausible search term, but perhaps (I say this from an arguendo perspective), not plausible on its own. Cobyan02069 (talk) 00:57, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

To help reach a conseus, I will consult WP:CSOC members who haven't discussed in this debate, to see what their viewpoint is on this tournament: @GauchoDude:, @Swimmer33:, @US Referee:, @GauchoDude:. Cobyan02069 (talk) 20:09, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Cobyan02069:-I understood. HindWiki^Connect 03:04, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete--I thought for long.And Vanamonde andf Stifle convinces me enough.Winged Blades^Godric 13:23, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and create-protect 2018, 2019 and 2020 titles to save us from another AfD next year and for the following reasons: 1. Generally there is insufficient content and sources for both the Tournament and the season every year 2. The parent article itself has lingering {{onesource}} tag, (^{removed after this comment)}. There's insufficient content to write meaningful article and (in my analysis, even notability concern). 3. The Tournament page has been repeatedly created every year and every year get deleted, it is just not notable: * 2011 America East Men's Soccer Tournament; *2012 America East Men's Soccer Tournament; * 2013 America East Men's Soccer Tournament; *2014 America East Men's Soccer Tournament; *2015 America East Men's Soccer Tournament *2016 America East Conference men's soccer and now this year 2017. There is also intention for creating it next year as infobox of this has shown. Note that All these past versions where deleted via full AfD not speedy or PROD. In addition, after AfD deletion of the season 2016 America East Conference men's soccer season it was recreated record 3 times until the title was salted to sysop-create only. Even after that it was recreated with varying letter case and later redirected. I believe it is time to save editors' time and indefinitely sysop-proctect creation for at least 3 years to come. I have no doubt nothing will change. Because Notability cannot be created where it exist not.–Ammarpad (talk) 14:02, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That seems a bit pointy, don't you think? Quidster4040 (talk) 18:30, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I will assume you don't actually understand what WP:POINTY is all about. Nonetheless, you were already given good advice by another user above. –Ammarpad (talk) 18:42, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I will assume you don't actually understand what WP:POINTY is all about. If you read the details of the policy, you will see that placing the parent article/future events and lumping it with the main article counts as deleting from an important subject. Quidster4040 (talk) 19:59, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - seems to me there is a small number of editors trying to WP:BLUDGEON this discussion without any one presenting sufficient independent sourcing showing non trivial coverage of this tournament as an event in itself. Ammarpad's comments are particularly convincing. Fenix down (talk) 23:25, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I genuinely am not trying to bludgeon, I'm new to this entire process. To me it feels like everyone assumes that they and everyone else knows how these policies work without linking to them. I just find it odd that those arguing delete haven't directly disputed Quidster's arguments (other than Ravenswing), they haven't answered Quidster's questions, and they haven't linked to any Wikipedia policies that demonstrate that it fails notability guidelines. The nominator made reference to a previous AfD without addressing what actual arguments they want to address from that AfD. Ammarpad and Ravenswing are the only ones to actually link to something, and even there they are essays and not policies or guidelines. ~~What exactly would constitute, as you put it, non-trivial coverage?~~ Totally missed your first comment on the page, my bad. Jay eyem (talk) 01:04, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep meets GNG and SIGCOV via Quidster and Templeton. Also, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but the championship game itself was broadcasted on the ESPN Network family, which, in the U.S., is one of the premier sports coverage networks. That alone should easily meet the notability concerns Raven and Ampad are worried about. Twwalter (talk) 04:15, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why would the broadcast of the championship game indicate that the regular season was notable? Fenix down (talk) 07:53, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Sandstein 12:34, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rutaba Yaqub

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doesn't satisfy WP:MUSICIAN. two sources are not Reliable enough to be cited here. Saqib (talk) 05:11, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: I've since added a further two obviously reliable sources, which are not simply rehashes of the earlier material. The article in The Express Tribune is non-trivial (she is one of two artists discussed, although in less detail than the first). The second article from Public Radio International is about her reaction to the death of Junaid Jamshed, although the article title doesn't make that obvious. It obvious from the first line of the article however, which reads "Growing up, musician Rutaba Yaqub loved listening to Junaid Jamshed.". So that now makes four obviously reliable sources, although two of those four are about roughly the same thing (just with different details). So three different stories in four reliable sources, which are either websites of print media or public radio broadcasters. Miyagawa (talk) 18:55, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Miyagawa: I still think in-depth coverage on the subject is missing. also i don't see the subject meeting WP:MUSICBIO. --Saqib (talk) 05:25, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I see it meeting the very first criteria "Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself." There's now three/four references that meet that, which covers the "multiple" part. As for in-depth coverage, that isn't a requirement under Wikipedia:Notability (music). I've had a look, and the only mention of in depth coverage related to notability is for WP:INDEPTH, which is in relation to individual events, not biographies. The requirement there is "multiple", not in-depth. Miyagawa (talk) 08:56, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Miyagawa makes a good case for her passing MUSICBIO. this source also mentions that she will be released shortly on Patari Aslis. Patari is "Pakistan's largest audio streaming platform." Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:34, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep since no particular notability issues. Unclear why she was nominated. gidonb (talk) 23:28, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep significantly discussed in two independent sources. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:41, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I agree with Saqib that the person has not been mentioned in enough independent sources, and the links are quite related, referring to the same details and information. Quantumavik (talk) 06:56, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Define "enough". Right now there's four that easily meet the reliable and independent source since they're all print newspapers or international radio organisations. One from The Express Tribune in 2013, two from Public Radio International in 2016 and one from The News International in 2017. Pick a number, and tell me where to find that number in the actual policies. Miyagawa (talk) 09:09, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note I've just reverted a whole bunch of edits that Saqib made to the article, which removed sources and added unsourced material that hasn't been mentioned anywhere. Miyagawa (talk) 09:03, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have started a thread at User_talk:Miyagawa#Rutaba_Yaqub. I expect you to respond. --Saqib (talk) 09:29, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Seems to meet WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO with mentions in a number of reliable, international sources. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:47, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Does the nominator have connection with the article subject?♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:50, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per above; coverage here: [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] etc. Mar4d (talk) 09:49, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:31, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Miz and Damien Mizdow

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This article basically consists of a weekly recap for a six month angle that's sufficiently covered in both wrestlers' individual pages. The subject matter fails the notability criteria, and the article itself is guilty of fan cruft and content forking. Feedback 05:05, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I voted "Weak keep" two years ago but probably shouldn't have. There's not much here, just two paragraphs about the tag team and another (larger) paragraph about them feuding. Everything useful is already covered in the individual articles. Fails GNG, amongst the other issues Feedback points out.LM2000 (talk) 05:52, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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- Delete, I'd usually be all up for keeping tag team articles, but this one is super short lived, and is based on them splitting. Note - Even the template they are in as tag team champions lists other articles, and not this one. Lee Vilenski(talk) 14:30, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:31, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Causal thinking

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Part of a walled garden created back in 2011, and materially unchanged since then. Meandering WP:SYNTH made as part of a self-promotion effort. See also the AfDs for Random structure function, Bernoulli stochastics, Bernoulli space, Stochastic thinking, Stochastic prediction procedure, Stochastic measurement procedure, Quantification of randomness, Variability function and Ignorance space. It's less math-y than those, but they're all part of the same package. XOR'easter (talk) 04:15, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. This one seems less promotional than the others but that doesn't make its sophomoring maunderings (with citations used for effect rather than for content) any more palatable. —David Eppstein (talk) 04:46, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete blatant WP:OR and promotion of primary source. I am in support of deleting all these OR articles by this user because they are all similar –Ammarpad (talk) 02:33, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete and redirect to Category:Voice actors. Sandstein 12:27, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

List of voice actors

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One big unsourced ball of fandom listcruft. It has been tagged as badly sourced since 2010 and has gone through two AfDs in that time, without improvement. There is no useful value to this list (voice actors are commonplace and we have categories to list them). The detail in this list is excessive, as there is negligible sourcing. It certainly has no value beyond listing the actor names, as a category would do better.

I'm prompted to list this because of this edit, a persistent vandal today dumping another similar 3k block of unsourced, unverifiable BLP. Yet it's not actually any worse than what's here already. We can't polish this, so we should flush it. Andy Dingley (talk) 03:02, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Category:Voice actors. I know it's cross-categorization, but that's a good way to deal with thousands of entries, and can apply WP:CATDEF as to who is really a voice actor and who just had a bit voice-over role in whatever, the latter of which is pretty much everyone who's been an actor. If you skim through Lists of actors, you'll see a good chunk of them as redirecting to categories. Maintaining a list of "well, what were they in?" is not useful. You get guest voices on the Simpsons from all sorts of celebs, and they're suddenly classified as voice actors? AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 04:01, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'd support that redirect. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:07, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Category:Voice actors per AngusWOOF. It's cross-namespace, but R2 doesn't cover this type of redirect. While long lists like this can't be controlled as easy, the category can just as well work as additions on the articles in question would need to be sourced anyway. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk • contribs) 21:05, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or redirect. Per WP:SALAT, "Lists that are too general or too broad in scope have little value." Pburka (talk) 03:16, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. List is too broad in scope to be useful, because there are simply too many people who have worked as voice actors, too many editors who think every voice actor who exists gets an automatic notability freebie regardless of their sourceability (further adding a constant ebb and flow of additions and removals), and too many people who get added here on the basis of having once voiced a two-line cameo on The Simpsons without ever having had a regular voice-acting role at all, for this to be a maintainable list. Redirecting to a category is never a useful thing to do with a list title, either — for one thing, voice actors are subcategorized by nationality and gender, so there are exactly zero people filed directly in Category:Voice actors at all. So a person typing this title into the search bar won't actually end up at any actual list. Bearcat (talk) 23:42, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:SALAT. The scope of this list is far too broad and too general to be useful. Wikipedia has thousands of biographies of voice actors from different nationalities to be of any use and countless more of regular actors who performed voice roles. —Farix (t | c) 15:36, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:SALAT, the categories present make up for the list in a big way. I am neutral on a redirect here as I am unsure if it would be helpful or not. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:17, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete. Given the obvious copyright violation and the lack of non-copyvio content that would form the basis for an article, deletion per WP:G12 was the only route. This is not to say that a list of podcast episodes such as this one is or isn't notable; that would of course be decided based on the sources in each case. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 06:33, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

List of Hello Internet Episodes

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Wikipedia is WP:NOT a collection of indiscriminate information, such as detailed lists of podcast episodes. power~enwiki (π, ν) 02:58, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep You cannot delete an episode description page on an "indiscriminate information basis." The episode list is useful for people who want to know a bit about the show without having to leave Wikipedia to find it in the iTunes store or their page, then find the episode description list, then find what they want. It is easy access. Furthermore, on the basis of the previous attempt to do this, the fact it is a talk show doesn't work against it as List of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver episodes exists as an episode description page for a talk show. There can't be multiple standards for the pages. If it is off the main page, as not to clutter it, then what exactly is the problem? UnknownM1 (talk) 15:27, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the history of the Podcast page, this was on a rollback because the editor of that page thought that listing the episodes was "messy." Yet this is valid information, compiled in a standard Wikipedia reference form for the purpose. It should be on the primary page Hello_Internet and User:Daniel Rigal should not have reversed it. Theclevertwit (talk) 16:15, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete as copyright infringement of episode list on iTunes. (Tagged)

I do not take kindly to my talk page comments being misrepresented. I did not use the word "messy" in either an edit summary or a talk page comment. What I actually said on the talk page was:

"I removed the list because it seemed to be copied directly from iTunes or from Hello Internet itself. We don't want a lot of content copied from other sources but what we can do is link to it instead."

That was me being nice, pointing out that we can't plagiarise other sources listings in a gentle way and being nice by adding a link to the full episode list under External links. I know that no good deed goes unpunished but I am not taking a trouting for this!

Now, this is me being slightly less nice, but not unreasonably so: The podcast teeters on the edge of being notable enough for an article. It falls just the right side of the line for a single article. It does not justify a stand alone episode list (like a highly notable TV show can do) or a walled garden of additional articles. Copyright issues aside, it does not offer the readers any advantage to look at a list of episodes on Wikipedia instead of on iTunes or HI's own website (which I linked to under External links). The "Tims" can put what they like on their own Wiki (and take the consequences if it turns out to be somebody else's copyright) but Wikipedia is not free web hosting for fansites. --DanielRigal (talk) 19:54, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, this is more of a WP:NOTCATALOGUE breach rather than being an indiscriminate list. Ajf773 (talk) 21:52, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: It doesn't matter what counter point is made, this list has a copyright infringement and needs to be deleted, further more, a list of episodes of an internet podcast is certainly not noteworthy nor encyclopedic content.Grapefruit17 (talk) 23:01, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:27, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ignorance space

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Part of a walled garden of self-promotion, wholly reliant upon primary sources. See also the AfDs for Random structure function, Bernoulli stochastics, Bernoulli space, Stochastic thinking, Stochastic prediction procedure, Stochastic measurement procedure, and Quantification of randomness. XOR'easter (talk) 02:16, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Variability function. XOR'easter (talk) 02:21, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Google finds nearly 20 hits on this (filtered to include Collani to avoid unrelated things with the same name) but they all appear to be by Collani's associates. With no in-depth sourcing by multiple groups independent of its originator, it fails WP:GNG. Also it appears to be content-free drivel but I guess that's not relevant to our notability criteria. —David Eppstein (talk) 02:30, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete this is clear synthesis of one primary source and this introducing WP:OR in Wikipedia. No other reliable sources discussed this invented concept in this sense –Ammarpad (talk) 02:13, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - as with the rest, needs independent reliable sources to pass WP:NPOV and WP:NOR. Smmurphy^(Talk) 02:19, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:27, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Aftab Pureval

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A puffery-filled personal bio of a politician who doesn't meet WP:NPOL. power~enwiki (π, ν) 02:13, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. I feel like I've done a decent job of stating facts objectively and without puffery; however, I do concede that I haven't included enough opposing viewpoints, and I'm working to fix that. As for notability, I feel strongly that Pureval meets WP:GNG for significant coverage in reliable sources. Of particular note are the Daily Kos piece ([8]), this coverage in AdAge (I haven't yet added his Aftab/Aflac campaign advertising to the article), and the lengthy Cincinnati profile ([9]). He has also received significant local coverage beyond what is normally expected for the oft-ignored clerk of courts position -- compare the sources available on Google for "aftab pureval" vs those for his predecessor, "tracy winkler". -IagoQnsi (talk) 02:42, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Clerk of courts at the county level is not a notability criterion that would get a person into Wikipedia under WP:NPOL, but the sourcing here is not making a strong case that he could be considered more notable than the norm. It's an office whose holders would simply be expected to generate some coverage in their county's own local media, so local coverage isn't enough to demonstrate notability by itself — to consider a person at this level of office notable enough for an article, we would require evidence that he was getting nationalized coverage beyond just Cincinnati media alone, thereby making him more notable than most other clerks of courts in most other counties. The fact that he may be more visible within Cincy than his predecessor was isn't the make-or-break condition in and of itself — the determing factor is whether or not his prominence can be shown as significantly wider (i.e. statewide or national) than most other court clerks could claim. But the only evidence of that being shown here is Daily Kos, which is not a notability-supporting source because it's a user-generated activist blog, not a media outlet. Bearcat (talk) 17:52, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, I concede; I made a mistake here. I had read WP:NPOL before writing the article, but I hadn't read WP:POLOUTCOMES, so I didn't realize that meeting WP:GNG isn't sufficient for local politicians if the sources are almost entirely local. Mea culpa. (However, I am gonna hang on to a copy of the article, because I think it's pretty likely that he'll become notable in the future). -IagoQnsi (talk) 19:18, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete local politicians with this type of office are not in any way default notable and we need non-local coverage to be more than routine.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:23, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Sandstein 12:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tom Paradise

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Recent AfD and a non-admin closure, but a bit late to simply re-open it.

They're a professor. But do they pass WP:ACADEMIC? I'm seeing neither the extent, nor the sourcing to justify this. This is another bio from a problematic community banned paid editor (KDS4444). Andy Dingley (talk) 02:11, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep distinguished chair at a research university. It means he passes PROF, and its been worked on by other editors to try to make it comply with our guidelines. Not a fan of the paid stuff, but Jytdog and others have helped here, so it isn't solely the work of a paid editor or only intended to promote. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:12, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So we're happy to take this on the basis of only a job title and a TV credit? This is supposedly an academic biography, yet there isn't even a publications list. A CV so thin would have a hard time getting a postdoc role, let alone claiming to be NOTABLE. Andy Dingley (talk) 02:31, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, because of how North American academic ranks work. It means that he does meet the other PROF criteria without having to check. We also just had an RfC on this that confirmed passing PROF establishes notability independent of the GNG, and he clearly passes PROF. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:36, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So what is his "rank"? The infobox claims "Distinguished professor", but the staff list states "University professor". This is an article which might well end up labelled as "notable", but it's also painfully lax. We're not usually so accommodating to our editors. Andy Dingley (talk) 02:39, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Andy, his details are on his university page. SarahSV ^(talk) 02:40, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps amazingly, I've already read that. And nowhere does it call him a "Distinguished professor", which is what the infobox claims. Now maybe in Arkansas a "University professor" is something special, but it isn't round here. Andy Dingley (talk) 02:54, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A University Professorship is a specific professorship given to academics with the rank of distinguished professor at some North American universities. It is different than simply being a professor at a university. It is a specific title for a highly regarded academic at the institution. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:01, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Andy, you wrote "A CV so thin would have a hard time getting a postdoc role", so I assumed you hadn't found his page. For "University Professor", see Academic ranks in the United States. SarahSV ^(talk) 03:07, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per PROF. SarahSV ^(talk) 02:16, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep. "Distinguished Professor" generally means someone with well-above-ordinary scholarship, and "University Professor" sometimes means something similar (at my campus it is like Distinguished Professor but even more rarefied). But at Arkansas it seems to mean someone with extraordinary contributions to service rather than to scholarship. So I don't think this is quite what we usually expect in WP:PROF#C5. Instead, in this case, it appears to be evidence of WP:PROF#C7, "substantial impact outside academia in their academic capacity", presumably for his general-audience work on Petra. —David Eppstein (talk) 03:06, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. He's a distinguished chair at a notable research university. It means he satisfies PROF. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 04:19, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

IMHE (which is UK) someone with a "distinguished chair" would be titled as holding the "Zoidberg Chair in Psychoceramics" or similar. I can see no such description. Nor can I see "distinguished professor" being used anywhere outside our own infobox. As a BLP, we have to source such things, especially when their notability rests upon them. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:10, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as a " distinguished chair" he certainly passes WP:PROF and the renomination is a bit rushy with the previous AfD resulting in speedy keep barely 30 days ago. — Ammarpad (talk) 08:40, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes WP:PROF#C7, per David Eppstein's argument above. XOR'easter (talk) 17:13, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I have to agree with Dingley. In the US true holders of "distinguished chairs" hold named chairs. If he does not have a named chair, at least in the US, he does not pass Academic criteria #7.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:57, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Huh? "Named chair" means: someone gave money to the school, and you were the best we could find in that subject. "Distinguished professor" or in this cases "University professor" may be more meaningful, because it generally has specific levels of distinction required (that I have linked to above) rather than merely an endowment fund. In addition, "Distinguished professor" is specifically called out as equivalent to named professorships in the relevant WP:PROF criterion (which is not #7). —David Eppstein (talk) 04:20, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- meets WP:PROF and per the 1st AfD. K.e.coffman (talk) 21:46, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep passes WP:PROF.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 09:42, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. MBisanz ^talk 02:28, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Andorra–Azerbaijan relations

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No particular claim of notability. Unless all bi-lateral relations are notable, there's no reason to believe this one is. power~enwiki (π, ν) 02:04, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete no inherent notability. all there is diplomatic recognition and nothing else. LibStar (talk) 09:04, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep relations between two entities with mutual recognition and notability. Tart (talk) 13:28, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

simply having recognition does not give inherent notability. LibStar (talk) 02:37, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I expanded the article. Now it has more relevance. Super Ψ Dro 14:41, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per LibsStar. Also, what expansion? What there is, is pretty much indistinguishable from a short directory listing. --Calton | Talk 22:58, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

How that what expansion? Look at the previous version, when that article was nominated and now, please. The truth, I do not know why, instead of fixing it, you are making a vote to delete the article. Super Ψ Dro 23:02, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment the thread at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive_138#Articles_on_bi-lateral_relations may be of interest when closing this. power~enwiki (π, ν) 20:50, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 01:14, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The default criterion for inclusion is meeting WP:GNG and this bilateral- relationship doesn't meet it. After similar AfDs like this now there's this attempt to agree on policy or guideline concerning whether countries relationships are automatically notable. But in the meantime that's only proposal, therefore only WP:SIGCOV of their relationship can be used to establish notability. And for this article there is no such sources and the stub is nothing save to show each country know the other exists. –Ammarpad (talk) 19:31, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into Foreign relations of Azerbaijan and Foreign relations of Andorra, both of which have tables for keeping track of the details of visits that this article now includes. MarginalCost (talk) 05:28, 3 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ^{Babymissfortune} 06:08, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per LibStar. While I agree that the article has been expanded since then, I don't agree that there's an awful lot more going for it. GNG wasn't met and still isn't. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 08:53, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I don't understand why people create pages as esoteric as this and I certainly don't understand why people obsess and make a hobby of deleting them. This particular one fails GNG. Carrite (talk) 05:14, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, I did not know that you could not create esoteric pages. In that case, tell me what I have to create. Super Ψ Dro 14:23, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Coffee house church

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Tagged as needing sources for over 7 years. This seems to be a rarely used WP:NEOLOGISM. An (admittedly shallow) search didn't turn up any good sources, although the phrase does appear occasionally. Note that this article isn't about coffeehouses run by churches (a trend in the USA for a while), but about congregations who meet in regular coffeehouses. Pburka (talk) 01:43, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete absolutely no sources. No evidence provided that the Catholic Church would approve of mass in a non-standard location like this. On the other hand, it makes assertions that having a worship service in a restaurant is inherently different from having one in a standard church building. Considering that the Harlem 1st branch that started meeting in a room in Sylvia's Restaurant of Harlem 20 years ago is the same organization as the Harlem 1st Ward that today meets in a regularly built LDS Chapel, I strongly suspect that the assertions of this article would not be held to be all people.Johen Pack Lambert (talk) 04:15, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete -- It might be classified as a dictionary definition. This is a genuine way of conducting mission. It might be transwikified. Whatever the outcome, the list of denominations needs to be removed as largely irrelevant. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:43, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sergei Kruchinin

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Scopus says h-index of 8, well below the threshold for WP:PROF. Editor of two journals that turn out to be predatory. WP:PEACOCK added by the WP:SPAs who are the main substantive contributors. However, Russian, so some of the issues with this awful article might be down to language difficulties. Guy (Help!) 00:52, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I can't see a way to passing WP:PROF. GS citation counts for his listed publications: 0, 12, 15, 15, 18, 31, 14, 3, 30, 51, 14, 0, 2, 3. Even allowing for the irregularities of what GS sees and what it misses, there's no way this adds up to "influential". The 2010 textbook he coauthored has only 39 citations, and I can't find reviews of it. No evidence of awards or highly selective society fellowships that could indicate professional recognition. XOR'easter (talk) 17:36, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. With the predatory editorships removed there is no evidence of WP:PROF. This article is puffed up in a particularly eastern-European way, but that's neither here nor there except that it makes any actual notability hard to find among all the noise. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:37, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the start is overly promotional and full of unneeded padding. If there was substance this might be overcomeable, but he just does not meet the notability guidelines for academics.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:34, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Journal of Basic and Applied Physics

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This article was created by a WP:SPA - in fact, creating this article was their sole edit. Amazingly, they "forgot" to mention that the publisher is listed by Beall as predatory. Not in Thomson ISI, not in JIF, not in DOAJ. Not in any way notable. Guy (Help!) 00:42, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I suppose that a fraudulent journal could attain notability by being widely discussed as such, but this is nowhere near that level. XOR'easter (talk) 02:00, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, basically per the same reasoning as WP:FRINGE: Without sources discussing the predatory nature of this journal we have no way to write a properly WP:NPOV article. If we had an article on the publisher we could redirect there, but we don't. —David Eppstein (talk) 02:10, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The following articles cite this journal btw: Prime number theorem, Taylor's law Tweedie distribution. It would also be more accurate to say that this was created by the journal's editor (hello massive COI here). In any case, delete.Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 04:15, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: this article is literally two short sentences, one external link, and a short table to make it appear better. Along with that, the article if you could even call it that, has four major issues tagged at the top which in my opinion constitutes deletion alone. definitely not WP:N and seems to be advertising somewhat, further more this information can all be found on the official website which not surprisingly was the one source for this article.Grapefruit17 (talk) 15:16, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Regarding the nominator's statement that "the publisher is listed by Beall as predatory," here is support for that statement: The publisher listed in the wp article is World Academic Publishing, and that organization is listed as a predatory publisher here and here. -- econterms (talk) 18:44, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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