Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Sams (2nd nomination)

David Sams

AfDs for this article:

• Articles for deletion/David Sams
• Articles for deletion/David Sams (2nd nomination)
• Articles for deletion/David Samson

David Sams (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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David Sams has recently been in the news extensively for the Google Assistant Jesus Christ incident [1], however, outside of that (which would be BLP1E) doesn't seem to have a footprint in RS. The article makes a number of extraordinary claims like he's personally won 9 Emmy Awards (I'm assuming the implication is national, not local, Emmys), helped launch Oprah Winfrey, and sold $125 million in direct TV systems, however, I am unable to find RS to support any of these claims after searching Google News, Google Books, newspapers.com, and JSTOR. At present, the article is sourced to two YouTube videos and David Sams' personal website. The article was previously deleted via AfD but later recreated. Chetsford (talk) 03:08, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. ^{Babymissfortune} 04:35, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. ^{Babymissfortune} 04:35, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. ^{Babymissfortune} 04:35, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. ^{Babymissfortune} 04:36, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

• Keep While Sams is probably very good at self promotion and has some despicable political ideas, he clearly has a history as a TV producer. One of his shows is named in WP:TVSHOW as an example of a show suitable enough to be named as content carried by local TV stations. He is obviously much higher up the food chain. He has done what good producers do, get his name attached to a lot of successful projects. He has managed to get his position as creator of Oprah's talk show and 9 Emmy awards mentioned in a lot of press, including reliable sources like the LA Times. Clearly there are a lot of sources talking about a lot of different stages of his career at varying points in time. Somehow the NOM's google search didn't seem to find the ones I have already added to the article. If nothing else he has achieved WP:GNG. And further, if his name is in the news currently (as stated by the NOM), it would be irresponsible of wikipedia to delete his article with his lengthy history specifically at the time people will be searching to find out who this guy is no matter how we feel about his religious or political activities. Trackinfo (talk) 05:32, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

"Somehow the NOM's google search didn't seem to find the ones I have already added to the article." While I appreciate your effort in adding press releases [2], Blogspot posts [3], Wordpress.com blog posts [4], and something called constantinereport.com [5] to the Sams BLP, just to be clear, David Sams did not create the Oprah Winfrey Show or win nine Emmy Awards.

• The only WP:RS that mentions any involvement by Sams in Oprah in any context at all is this one LA Times candidate profile [6] when he was one of 135 candidates running in the California gubernatorial recall election and it says he was "involved in launching" Oprah as a syndication staffer at King World Television. This is the careful wording a publicist uses in crafting a biography for his client; the cameraman of the pilot episode was also "involved in launching" Oprah.
• I've just checked the Emmys database [7] and they return no results showing Sams winning "9 Emmy Awards" (or even one Emmy Award).

"if his name is in the news currently (as stated by the NOM), it would be irresponsible of wikipedia to delete his article" - see WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BLP1E

Chetsford (talk) 07:03, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Sams has sources talking about his history going back to the 1980's. Clearly this is not a case where WP:BLP1E applies. I am specifically questioning the timing of this AfD to correspond with his appearance in the current news, which you as the NOM brought up. The sources I added did not even address whatever is putting him in the current news. Trackinfo (talk) 17:28, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Regarding the other points, I agree, he or his publicist (possibly the same person) have done an effective job of placing his claims of 9 Emmy awards into various media, including the LA Times and other legitimate newspapers. I suspect, in his role with the distribution company for Oprah, Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune, he has assumed the awards for those shows to be his own. Clearly he was high up the food chain at King World. I'm adding a source that defines his title at the company. If you think the multiple sources repeating the claims posted by his publicist are still inadequate, I would not contest removing of the awards or better, refining of the wording to say "he claims." Independent of that, he did co-produce and was on camera host of RollerGames, also sourced. And his current involvements in religious broadcasting that have evolved over the last two decades. There are a lot of things this guy has done over a long career, a lot of it behind the scenes and more difficult to articulate if you aren't sitting in those offices while decisions are being made. Was he important to the decisions that made these things happen, or was he just occupying a seat at the table? But he was there. He keeps getting asked to be there. The main point is you are improperly using the AfD process to try to delete the entire article, rather than using your skills as an editor to place proper words into the article to more accurately describe what is known about this subject.Trackinfo (talk) 17:54, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

We're in dangerous territory here. This guy obviously has a relationship with Oprah, among others. Removing him from here would be as bad a Google removing Jesus from Google Home.

Blogspot posts, press releases, YouTube videos, and constantinereport.com aren't real sources, though. Especially for a BLP. Chetsford (talk) 18:17, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

NY Times, LA Times (multiple mentions in different decades), Chico News & Review are legitimate newspapers, The Washington Times is a biased conservative newspaper. There are multiple trade publications in the sources. The other sources just supplement. I added an LA Times to supplement what a previous user had added from youtube. I freely admit there is garbage in the article. Feel free to edit. You have no case for removal. Trackinfo (talk) 18:47, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

The NY Times article you added is a 4,663 word article that mentions David Sams once in a short quote. The others are similarly incidental. It seems the only substantive references are to the non-RS sources you've added like Blogspot, Wordpress, constantinereport.com, etc. If we remove those we have no biographical detail on Sams other than the fact he is a living human. Chetsford (talk) 19:15, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Good Grief. His name might be mentioned once, in the middle of a paragraph long quote that sets up his participation in the negotiations on Oprah and several paragraphs about how innovative that was. And you are counting words? Trackinfo (talk) 19:22, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

"that sets up his participation in the negotiations" - But it doesn't really, does it? [8] Chetsford (talk) 19:41, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

• Delete not enough sources to establish notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:15, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
• KeepEverything has been sourced as of 23:00 on January 27.

This user says delete to everything. Please ignore. Trackinfo (talk) 17:24, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

This user is a seasoned contributor to Wikipedia with an 87% match rate on AfDs. Please treat other editors in this discussion with civility. Thanks. Chetsford (talk) 18:10, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

JPL has such a bad track record that he has been banned from creating AfDs. That's one of my sources for a legitimate accusation. Since he can't create AfDs, he is a serial deletionist. As for your statement about an 87% match rate, I have made multiple requests for your source on such a declaration. You have refused. So that declaration is unfounded. Trackinfo (talk) 23:23, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

You can find anyone's AFD match rate using Wikimedia Toolforge. If you have other questions about tools available for Wikipedia editing I would encourage you to bring them up at the WP:Teahouse. If you have other accusations to make against editors I would encourage you to bring them up at ANI. Neither of these are appropriate avenues of discussion for this AfD. I appreciate your help in keeping this AfD as on-topic and un-dramatic as possible. Thanks, in advance. Chetsford (talk) 00:07, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

• Keep All questions posed here have been reviewed, checked, and referenced. The article has been updated and sources cited throughout.