Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Darioush Rezaeinejad

Darioush Rezaeinejad

Darioush Rezaeinejad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

WP:NOTMEMORIAL / WP:BIO1E. Dead 35 year old post-graduate student and alleged member of Iranian nuclear program. Please see the similar Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mostafa Ahmadi-Roshan which closed as a redirect to Assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists - following which this was redirected as well. There is no coverage of this individual of not besides his death and circumstances leading to his death. His death is already amply covered in Assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists - not much to merge, and topic-wise these deaths are treated as a group, and not individually. I am also nominating two other similar individuals. Icewhiz (talk) 06:03, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Ardeshir Hosseinpour (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Majid Shahriari (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 06:08, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 06:08, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 06:08, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

• Delete. WP:BIO1E. Xxanthippe (talk) 06:33, 5 May 2018 (UTC).
• Delete per nomination since subject's lacking independent notability. -The Gnome (talk) 07:19, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

If the article changes title to Assassination of Darioush Rezaeinejad I'd comfortably change my opinion to a "Weak keep" since almost all sources are about the event. As an individual the subject is not independently notable. -The Gnome (talk) 21:40, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

We already cover this assassination in Assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists - at quite some length.Icewhiz (talk) 21:49, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

The killing of Jean Charles de Menezes was not bundled together with an article about terrorist incidents because the victim was not a terrorist and his assassination was a case of mistaken identity. This seems to be the case, per sources, with the subject of the contested article: The victim was falsely assumed by the assassins to be Darioush Rezaei; Mossad subsequently claimed that the killed man was indeed working for Iran's nuclear program but there's no corroboration for this. Whatever we do with this article about an Electrical Engineer, it certainly does not belong in an article about nuclear scientists. -The Gnome (talk) 22:08, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

It is not 100% clear who (Mossad or anyone else) was behind any of these. Nor is it clear what role any of these individuals filled in Iran's alleged program. However, electrical engineers do play an important role in any modern nuclear program - quite a bit of the staff at Sandia and LLNL are EEs. High voltage and rapid switching is quite important for nuclear detonators. There is no clear indication this is any sort of mistake - this individual was working at a national security facility.Icewhiz (talk) 22:24, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Naah...but Israeli sources do an awful lot of "wink, wink, nudge, nudge", which is what they typically do in these cases.... (Read the Spiegel article) Huldra (talk) 23:11, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

First of all, Icewhiz, a "national security facility" does not equate to a "nuclear facility." Western countries, to use an obvious example, have myriads of "national security facilicities," none of which are nuclear related. Second, when Mossad comes out and states that an assassinated person was working for Iran's nuclear program, then we can say with a rather high degree of probability that the victim was indeed targeted by Mossad (who, then, went on to justify the killing). Third, everyone working for a state service of Iran, especially in the armed forces, can be considered a legitimate target by your logic ("electrical engineers do play an important role in any modern nuclear programme"). Perhaps, to be on the safe side, Mossad should kill all Iranians with a college degree.

In which case, we'd have a huge number of Wikipedia articles to audit, of course, which is a problem. -The Gnome (talk) 07:08, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm not getting into whether this was legit or not or who did this - there are obviously two issues here that muddy the waters - Iran denying having a nuclear weapon program, and no one clearly taking responsibility. However, Politico in 2018 when covering the alleged Israeli assasinations (which are notable as a group - this individual got a short paragraph) - wrote [1] In July 2011, a motorcyclist followed Darioush Rezaeinejad, a doctor of nuclear physics and a senior researcher for Iran’s Atomic Energy Organization, until he reached a point close to the Imam Ali Camp, one of the most fortified bases of the Revolutionary Guard, which contains an experimental uranium enrichment area. The biker drew a pistol and shot Rezaeinejad dead. - so it seems later sources do see this individual as connection to a nuclear program. Looking at the sources for this individual (and there aren't that many) - it seems there was an initial spin that this was a mistake. However, later coverage from Iran has glorified the group as a group - and it doesn't seem that some nuclear (peaceful, of course) connection is denied anymore. Electrical Engineers play a vital role in many fields (from medical devices, through signal processing, high voltage, and yes - nuclear programs as well - usually specializing in a particular field or aspect - nuclear engineering, in academia, is often a sub-department (or in less developed institutions - merely a few personnel in the interdisciplinary department) inside the electrical engineering department) - don't sell EEs short.Icewhiz (talk) 07:23, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Nope, that is not convincing at all and I have no stomach for a discussion about Middle East spin. I suggest Keep with the intention of renaming the article later on. It's a subject with independent notability and deserves a stand-alone article. A link to the list of assassinated nuclear scientists in Iran would be, of course, welcome. -The Gnome (talk) 12:38, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

• Keep ok, just ask yourself: if an Israeli with similar qualifications had been killed: would that have been considered notable? Hell, yeah,...and there would not only be a Wikipedia article about him, but also about every street, park or area named after him. Alas....when he is an Iranian murdered....he can be forgotten? Hell, no, Huldra (talk) 23:12, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

  WP:OSE is a non-valid argument which doesn't need to be countered, however as we may see in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ben-Joseph Livnat, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shooting of Danny Gonen, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oron Shaul, and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Killing of Yehoshua Weisbrod (nominated by Huldra herself) - this does not seem to be the case. Furthermore in this case - we already have an article on the event - Assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists.Icewhiz (talk) 05:48, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Yehoshua Weisbrod was an arbitrary victim, in the wrong place at the wrong time, as were all of the above, AFAIK. Clearly you can see the difference an arbitrary victim, and a targeted assassination? Also, all should note that the AfDs for Ardeshir Hosseinpour and Majid Shahriari both redirects here, so this is in reality a triple AfD vote. Huldra (talk) 20:51, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Targets may be non-notable. See WP:BUNDLE for how AfD bundling works - in this case since the individuals are highly similar (and the redirect undone in all 3) - bundling made sense.Icewhiz (talk) 21:07, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, well, it seems you missed step III in WP:BUNDLE: "Add the remaining articles to the nomination." Huldra (talk) 21:21, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

"la" + "find sources" were added for both, and the deletion nomination refers to the bundle -- I am also nominating two other similar individuals - I don't see how I missed step III.Icewhiz (talk) 21:31, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

My bad! I see it now...just unaccustomed to this format. Huldra (talk) 21:50, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Huldra, I'm loath to suggest any kind of "pro-Israeli" bias but in my experience here I cannot say I did not witness a pattern of alerts calling in votes on AfDs and of keeping up articles about subjects of quite dubious notability. Rather sad this. -The Gnome (talk) 21:40, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

User:The Gnome Yeah well, I once estimated that if you were a random victim of a violence in Israel/Palestine, your chances of getting a Wikipedia article were more than 100 times larger if you were Jewish, than if you were Palestinian. (Just count the number of civilian victims in the conflict (=the large majority are Palestinian) and compare it with number of Wikipedia articles on victims (=the large majority are Jewish) Huldra (talk) 21:50, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

• Keep perhaps the article should be called "killing of Darioush Rezaeinejad". The one event seems to be notable with numerous newspaper stories from around the world. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 13:43, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
• Keep - seems to be important to keep it but altering the title to "Killing of Darioush Rezaeinejad","..... Hosseinpour", ".... Shahriari" might be a suitable fitting here.GizzyCatBella (talk) 04:49, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
• Delete this article is basically built on subsubstantiated claims. It is a very clear fail of verifiability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:27, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Could you point us, please, to those claims that are "subsubstantiated"? I'd be happy to change my suggestion if we find sources to be "subsubstantiated." Thanks. -The Gnome (talk) 12:36, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

• Keep: the first one is borderline, but as an “Assasination of …” may be a week keep. Majid Shahriari appears to be notable for a stand-alone article, and so is the 2nd entry. Should probably not have been a bundled nomination. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:22, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

  Regarding the bundling - note I did not nominate/bundle Masoud Alimohammadi who as a tenured professor should be evaluated more critically for PROF (which he may fail). Regarding Majid Shahriari - the bundle is appropriate. He has very little or no coverage prior to being killed. His known or alleged position(s) wouldn't qualify for WP:NPROF or WP:SOLDIER. And his publications - google scholar search for him (might include someone from a different field as well) - not many, mostly uncited by others, many of them conference/low-grade journals, and he's the co-author on most of them - shows no snowball chance in hell of passing NPROF by dint of his publications. Coverage of him and Rezaeinejad are the same (in relation to their death for the most part with some MEMORIAL type publications) and often done jointly (in the same articles).Icewhiz (talk) 07:27, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

• Delete Fails WP:BIO1E ,WP:NPROF or WP:SOLDIER and there is a page Assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists for this.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:12, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 11:53, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

• Delete and redirect to Assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists. I see little notability outside the circumstances of his death and the references used to write the article, as noted above, are mostly unsubstantiate claims. Redirecting to the relevant article where there is existing context regarding circumstances of his death is the best course of action here. Peacock (talk) 12:34, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect Rezaeinejad to Assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists#23 July 2011. A few details about the possibility of mistaken identity would be good, but the incident itself doesn't warrant a standalone article. Not sure about the other two, who were actual nuclear scientists; that would depend more on their academic standing. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:31, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
• Comment for fellow editors who suggest only a mention in the "List." Was not the assassination a notable event? If title and content change and focus on the assassination, doesn't that have independent notability? The Wikipedia article about the person who ostensibly ordered the assassination, Mossad's then-chief Tamir Pardo, is overwhelmed with sources relevant to the event: The Sydney Morning Herald ("Mossad shot dead Iranian scientist"}; Der Spiegel ("Mossad Behind Tehran Assassinations, Says Source"); Middle East online ("Mossad behind murder of Iranian scientist"); UPI ("Israel killed Iranian"); Haaretz ("Israel's New Mossad Chief Behind Assassination of Iran Nuclear Scientist"). -The Gnome (talk) 12:36, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

  Had this been a long list (with one liner entries for each event) - you might have had a point. However - Assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists is not a list, and covers (at length, and could possibly be expanded) 6 connected assassination (and attempts) events in which Iranian (alleged) nuclear scientists were targets. These men were not targeted individually - but rather as part of an (alleged) campaign. There is little reason (or policy justification per BIO1E / NOTMEMORIAL) to have an individual article for each one as opposed to covering the entire (alleged) campaign.Icewhiz (talk) 12:51, 15 May 2018 (UTC)