User talk:Mattythewhite

Shaun Rooney

I appreciate that. I just thought with all the updates I had accomplished tidying up his page. Will you update my edits on 1 June? Rusty1111 : Talk 13:26, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - May 2018

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23:02, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Álvaro Arbeloa (and others, i suppose)

With all due respect Matty, really? Do we need two lines/entries for the same trophy in honours? If the previous approach was not correct (and i imagine the pertinent discussions were held, it was I who missed out on them), don't we have any alternatives? My opinion only of course, but i think the current M.O. is downright ugly, if still technically correct.

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 15:12, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

In my experience, it is common to have separate honours, as in winners and runners-up in the same competition, on separate lines. Perhaps a user wiser than myself could mediate. @Struway2: Can I ask what your take is on these two versions? Mattythewhite (talk) 16:04, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Don't think I have a definite view, to be honest; don't tend to work on articles for players with strings of honours, and if I do, they generally don't include runners-ups. Not sure why we'd include sitting on the losers' bench in the glorified friendlies that were the 2011 and 2014 Supercopa de España as honours while omitting the 2008–09 Premier League runners-up spot to which he contributed 29 starts, either. If I were having separate rows, I'd put the runner-up row immediately below the corresponding winner row, rather than at the end of the list, and would omit the repeated name in favour of indenting the runner-up row. If keeping them together, then certainly no capital letter for runner-up.

• Supercopa de España: 2012
  • runner-up: 2011, 2014
• Supercopa de España: 2012
• Supercopa de España runner-up: 2011, 2014
• Supercopa de España: 2012; runner-up: 2011, 2014

You may want to look elsewhere for a user wiser than yourself, or else agree to disagree so long as anything for which there is a style guide abides by it, or else take it to WT:FOOTY and risk diverting into the endless pointless argument about runners-ups not being honours at all... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:42, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Indeed User:Struway2, that "runner-up yes"/"runner-up no" battle has longsince started to reek! I also giggled at your interesting definition of the Supercopa de España ("glorified friendly"), even though it is indeed an official/seasonal trophy. About the league runner-up inclusion, that would make sense if medals were awarded in England/UK for the second-place team. Are they (asking in all candidness, i honestly do not know)?

Attentively, thank you very much to both for your participation. --Quite A Character (talk) 21:03, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Just posted a WP:FOOTY thread, and the ONLY reply so far (please see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football#Honours_(yes,_honours)) conveys that it's not wrong to add finishes (1st, 2nd, etc) for same trophy in same line, so again i deduce it has everything to do with aesthetic preferences and nothing to do with editing consensuses.

So, i kindly ask: is it OK if i reinstate the previous approach or Mr. Arbeloa's honours, with the due compromise (name of club written inside quotation marks instead of the ";" symbol, runner-up/third place written BEFORE the two dots instead of AFTER even though i do not agree with that)? Thanks in advance --Quite A Character (talk) 16:49, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Whatever you do, please could you make sure it is in line the fair suggestions made above by Struway. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:08, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Sure thing, do not worry! --Quite A Character (talk) 20:28, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Leonardo Ulloa

I assumed that two refs would be better than one (and BOTH being in English), also taking into consideration stuff from the PL official website eventually crashes down. Whatever, only wanted to help (as did you, of course)...

Attentively, sorry for any inconvenience --Quite A Character (talk) 21:25, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Nothing in the Premier League source is disputed, so I don't see why a secondary reference would be required. I'd recommend you take a look at WP:CITEKILL. If the url changes, goes down or whatever, we can either update it to the new one or add the archive details. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:33, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Jake Livermore

Are we pretending that Livermore has not played 49 league games and scored 2 league goals for West Bromwich Albion. Just curious as to why valid information has been deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slade121 (talk • contribs) 22:14, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Because the timestamp was not updated. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:16, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

hmm, I read it off of soccerbase, they are slow to update, thanks for fix. Govvy (talk) 22:39, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Gabriel Heinze

Would SOCCERWAY.com be sufficient to allow the accolades to stay? Awaiting your (always certified in my book) input before i engage in further editing in the article. --Quite A Character (talk) 16:18, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

I would say no, as Soccerway are notorious for listing honours players haven't necessarily won. They list the trophies won by the player's club, regardless of whether the player received a medal. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:24, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

I get it! What about if i find a reliable source showing the player appearing in the build-up rounds, would that "cut it"? --Quite A Character (talk) 16:36, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

But as I queried in my edit summary, does appearing in an earlier round mean a player earns a medal? Genuine question. And bearing in mind different competitions will have different rules/standard regarding the distribution of medals. I know FA Cup winning clubs receive a set amount of medals, but it's never or at least rarely publicised which players actually received one (bar those who played in the final, of course). Mattythewhite (talk) 17:10, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Oddly (or not) could not find anything for the English League Cup thus far. But what's your intake on this (please see here https://archivesparisfootball.wordpress.com/2014/06/05/psg-troyes-3-2-ap-040104-coupe-de-france-03-04/, i've come to learn that anything Wordpress-related is not very reliable (but i can surely find a suitable replacement), but what about the semi-finals, he scored in the penalty shoot-out https://www.eurosport.fr/football/coupe-de-france-04/2003-2004/le-psg-finalement_sto581116/story.shtml)? A guy who scores a goal in any given round surely deserves a winners' medal...

Just "engage" in this thought: a player scored eight goals in the previous cup/league cup rounds, then misses the final through injury or suspension, he's nor worthy of the accolade? How come? --Quite A Character (talk) 00:28, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

• On an unrelated note, the following question stemming from Paulo Fonseca: is the info contained by reference #13 unencyclopedical? Methinks not, after all the coach boasted they WOULD BE CHAMPIONS and they did not, worth the passing mention! Previous user removed it without one word in summary (for that or any of their other FOURTEEN edits, which also included removal of professional senior clubs managed in the infobox and true info in his playing career - i admit i added the latter part back in the day and did not source it immediately, now i have), hate it when they do that... Plus, they added tons of info regarding Mr. Fonseca's managerial work in Ukraine, adding ZERO sources to go with it (no worries, i have already sourced the contents, and then some).

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 16:54, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:10, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Not trying to be a nuisance or anything (not by a mile! My last message could have passed you by, with all the archiving and stuff), but what do you think of this "twist"? I emphasise, if a player scores (mind you, SCORES, not PLAYS) in any given previous round of a knockout tournament, he's entitled to the trophy/medal, right? I know I only showed you a wordpress article thus far for his FC quarter-final goal, but I can find a reliable source in a heartbeat.

If you still think this is not enough, I respect your decision and leave article as it is (I know Mr. Heinze won the 2004 Coupe de France Final, all I need to get by so to speak). Regarding the 2006 English League Cup he may not have featured at all (for what it's worth, I never delved in to confirm if SOCCERBASE is 100% reliable - though I imagine it is, at least for English/UK-based players - but the 2005/06 seasonal data for this player does not show him appearing once in the LC), due to the serious injury mentioned in his reference #11; matter settled here thus, we only need to focus in the French Cup (assuming it's not an open and shut case).

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 09:59, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed your message, as it was tucked between others and not located after my last message. This is what I'm asking: *is* an appearance in an earlier round sufficient? We can't assume that is the case. In some competitions it probably is, in some it won't be. Mattythewhite (talk) 15:53, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Something alone the lines of (in Heinze's case) the French Football Federation guidelines on trophies? --Quite A Character (talk) 16:12, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Kyle Spence

I have now added a reference to Kyle Spence's league stats. It's a link to his profile on the official Norwegian Football Association website. Thanks, Cam (talk) 07:16, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Cameron McGeehan

Firstly Where does it state league only? surely it is how man goals he has scored for the club so Cameron McGeehan has scored one goal for scunthorpe united

Secondly Why are you so damn rude accusing me of "vandalising" a wiki page? I have not once "vandalised" a page and I have no intention to I only make correct and factual edits to a page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23limegreen (talk • contribs) 00:02, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

It's literally at the bottom bottom of the infobox: "Senior club appearances and goals counted for the domestic league only". And the waning I issued was based on your history of continually adding unsourced content. Mattythewhite (talk) 00:27, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Solanke

Could be wrong but isnt it standard practice not to generally list youth titles? Recall there being discussion about it bloating a player's honours count when they havent won any senior trophies. It could be an unestablished consensus... Davefelmer (talk) 00:01, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Don't know if there is consensus either way, bringing it up at WT:FOOTY is probably the best option. Mattythewhite (talk) 01:42, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

David Villa

Hey, why did you revert my edits on David Villa's page? It's months out of date, it says he has 2 MLS appearances and 1 goal but he actually has 7 and 4, respectively. Ethanrule3 (talk) 00:06, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Because you didn't update the table date and some of the table cells. Mattythewhite (talk) 01:47, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

OK, but could you either fix my arithmetic or let me know rather than just deleting my updates with no explanation? Ethanrule3 (talk) 04:02, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

I could have, but I'm not particularly familiar with David Villa's statistics or the league he plays in. Mattythewhite (talk) 13:04, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Fernando Torres

Dude making Torres part of the chelsea season 14-15 makes no sense in terms of actual football. Shouldn't be included if he was 0 appearances. Frankly it looks ugly. Change it!