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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Unbreakify (talk | contribs) at 18:33, 9 November 2024 (→Proposed merge of Fex (band) into Subways of Your Mind: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Sources

Hey, I went out and found two more sources.

Best, PrussianOwl (talk) 18:18, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

March 2020

Someone registered the song with a record company that does business with Google.[1] Either this is an attempt to generate false content ID claims, or the whole controversy is a fabricated hoax. Either way, the fact that this song is able to be purchased from digital stores is notable.

71.32.168.228 (talk) 20:36, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Either way, the fact that this song is able to be purchased from digital stores is notable.

A (likely false) content ID claim is not an implication that the song is purchasable online. Bad actors jump on stuff like this all the time on YouTube. Additionally, it only indicates that the video was removed, not necessarily due to a claim. -- 0x004d (talk) 02:53, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SgvXIirw3I

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:23, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why do we include Reddit users as reliable sources...?

--  ApChrKey   Talk 18:12, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ApChrKey because reddit users made the thing and are praising themselves you ignorant fool 2A02:3032:400:B0F2:1934:3034:8C1D:E19 (talk) 15:30, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Because this is about an Internet song. We're not citing some random Reddit user in a highly scientific biology article. Hipotecas (talk) 03:26, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe something can be found here

Archive with old radio broadcasts https://www.rias1.de/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:B40:7ABC:E45E:1051:3907:F836 (talk) 14:27, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This could be a lifetime of a task. But it might be a good lead, as has it has tons of old recordings, also from GDR, which some people assume as the origin of the song and why no trace to it can be found. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:638:806:68:25B2:43DB:BC44:22AB (talk) 08:06, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Solving the problem?

An approach can be found here.--Landmensch 2 (talk) 02:23, 9 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Topic provided by Youtube

apparently, "Too Lost LLC" is providing a playlist of songs by an unknown band "Like the Wind" album "Statues in Motion" since Feb 25th 2022. so who is "Too Lost LLC" and why do they claim ?copyright? on these songs. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGDUqXQIZo1-ZGULvb3pFmQ/about luckily there havent been any copyright claims on youtube yet, they must not have legal grounds to attempt content-id. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.34.187 (talk) 03:43, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

now a 3rd party is claiming copyright content on youtube 

La Canción Más Misteriosa De Internet
Desconocido

Video cannot be monetized Copyright owner's policy Monetized in some territories 

Copyright owners
TuneCore
On behalf of: The Most Mysterious Song On The Internet

How Do We Know the Song Is in Fact from the 80s?

I really think that the statement "The song was recorded from a Norddeutscher Rundfunk (NDR) broadcast at an unknown date, widely speculated to be 1983 or 1984" needs some sort of qualification. How do we know that statement is factual? As far as I've been able to see, there's no conclusive evidence to validate the song's age; all anyone has (as far as I know) is the word of Darius S, whoever that might be (his "sister" might be a sock puppet), and a digital copy of the song from YouTube. Maybe something like "According to internet user Darius S, the song was recorded..."? Mpaniello (talk) 17:05, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fair point that the statement isn't entirely clear. I edited the wording and added a reference to the Rolling Stone article, where the original poster says it was likely recorded no earlier than 1984. ForsythiaJo (talk) 01:01, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much! Mpaniello (talk) 01:06, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My house reference

I feel that this article should include the use of the song in the MyHouse doom mod. I do not know how to format an addition to the article. Insecurestud (talk) 20:45, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no qualms about adding this to the article, as long as we can cite a reliable source (see WP:RS) for the info. ForsythiaJo (talk) 23:31, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Statues in Motion & Alvin Dean

Can I add the discussion around SiM and Alvin Dean since they come up a lot in the search.

From the German article:

According to Billy Knight (real name: Vasilis Paleokostas)[24], Like the Wind is a song recorded in 1982 by the Greek new wave/synth-pop band Statues in Motion,[25] which did not make it onto the 1983 album release of the same name[26] due to lack of space. [27] The song was sung by Alvin Dean[28] (real name: Giorgios/George Dalambira[29]), through whose stay in Berlin after the band split up the song may have found its way into the German radio programme.[30] Among other things the discrepancy between the Yamaha DX-7 synthesiser (available only from 1983), which was very probably used in the song according to a broad consensus and with which some synthesiser passages of the song could only be realised in the first place, and Billy Knight's statement that he recorded the song with a Yamaha CS-15D, whose technical capabilities would not have been sufficient in the opinion of the critics,[31] as well as further contradictions in Billy Knight's statements[32] speak against the authorship of Statues in Motion, in which Ilias Mitsakis (alias Elli Kane) was also involved as lyricist and manager. [24] LordElend (talk) 23:13, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

it's real, change the name

everything is real, stop calling it unknown, it's FEX - Subways of your Mind, call it the The Most Mysterious Song on the Internet, but stop edit it to unknown — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gsdgsdf (talk • contribs) 15:35, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While I agree, I'm fairly certain that we need to have secondary and teriary sources to back it up before the change is made. When we get those, as well as further information, we can change it. Also, there's apparently a live recording now? Might want to make a note of that. YoProMama (talk) 01:57, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FEX - Subways of Your Mind is unconfirmed - 04/11/2024

With the solve post, people have begun editing this page without it truly being confirmed yet. This is a normal process for Lostwave and shouldn't be excused for a TMMS either. Reverting the changes until its confirmed. South pole ball (talk) 16:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, there are no secondary sources confirming it as yet. We can't use a forum post as a primary reference. G-13114 (talk) 17:57, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even disregarding secondary sources, the only primary source is still contested. The history of this song has been the target of many hoaxes, until more primary sources are shown the solve is still considered unconfirmed by many regarded researchers. South pole ball (talk) 18:23, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed that any new additions (for the moment) should clearly state that this is a claim being made and not a confirmed fact. Ideally I'd like to see a reliable source say that they've talked to the band directly and confirmed there is material proof. ForsythiaJo (talk) 18:22, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On this topic, source 15 is a dubious source at best. Even its footnotes state it might not be true, whilst the rest of the source is a rip of the new audio file.
https://www.tsugi.fr/la-chanson-plus-mysterieuse-dinternet-a-ete-trouvee/ South pole ball (talk) 18:33, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, the source is more reporting on the post than the veracity of the discovery. That said, if the website itself is reliable then we could use to source that this is a claim being made, even if we can't use it to cite that this is true.
I don't have strong opinions either way whether we choose to leave the claim or take it out entirely for the time being. ForsythiaJo (talk) 18:36, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've just requested page protection, which might help with the number of edits we're seeing. ForsythiaJo (talk) 18:26, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've also added some invisible text notes to discourage people from editing the Infobox or lead in light of the Reddit post. ForsythiaJo (talk) 18:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say it's pretty much confirmed, we HAVE the finished song, we HAVE a PHYSICAL COPY of the song Flixxy0 (talk) 18:58, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We do not have a physical copy, we have a new audio file from FEX, the supposed artists. But as any time in the Lostwave community would show, that means nothing. People can easily recreate songs now that appear almost exact like the originals.
The only other evidence we have is that this FEX band is real (from the 1980s news clippings) yet that does not prove they had made the song.
Patience is the key, other similar songs like 'Edge of a Dream' or 'Treadmill of Time' spent years waiting for confirmation. TMMS is the most sought after lost song, we should treat it with the respect it deserves. South pole ball (talk) 19:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, there's no need to rush, wikipedia is rightly cautious, and should set a high bar of confirmation before we can definitively say that the mystery has been solved. After all, if this turns out to be another hoax then caution will have been vindicated. If it is legit, then there's no harm in waiting a bit. G-13114 (talk) 19:24, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Except we do have a physical copy of the song, https://i.redd.it/x6lslr53jvyd1.jpg?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
There's also evidence of FEX being an Flixxy0 (talk) 19:32, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is a photo of a cassette, this again proves nothing. I could purchase a cassette and print a photo onto for pennies. All evidence so far provided does not remove their burden of proof, no official documentation that had existed during the recording of TMMS has been shown.
We have a GEMA archive which had been registered in the last 2 weeks, as confirmed by the primary source. Which would have been the only evidence we have seen so far.
Although the vocal tracks are very similar, we live in the world of AI now. It is not something that can not be falsified. Please have patience. South pole ball (talk) 19:39, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not AI, there are MULTIPLE signs something is AI, this has none of them.
Also you keep saying we need a secondary source, where are we going to get a secondary source from? If we go by your insistence we need a secondary source, then that means so many found lostwave songs aren't actually verifiably found because there isn't a "secondary source".
In the meantime the general consensus is that it was found, and I believe it should be marked as such Flixxy0 (talk) 19:47, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We can't use Reddit as a principle source because it's user generated content. We need to wait until some reputable news website or magazine etc picks up the story and verifies it. G-13114 (talk) 19:59, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
404Media has an article out that was published literally 10 minutes ago, do we consider that reputable? If not, what's the criteria?
https://www.404media.co/the-most-mysterious-song-on-the-internet-has-finally-been-identified/ CyberAlexMM (talk) 21:18, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They're the guys who used to write for Vice Motherboard 2604:2D80:D105:A900:AF15:E006:AA76:DAF2 (talk) 21:24, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Quote from 404Media: "It seems as if the mystery is solved, but the community is still double checking marjin1412’s work. The Mysterious Song Discord server is in read-only mode while the mods wait for more information". So we can use this article to cite the claim, but again the article itself is not confirming the creators/name of the song. ForsythiaJo (talk) 23:15, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then I have a feeling we're not gonna get a definitive article for a while. Major news publications would not cover this normally, let alone on Election Day. CyberAlexMM (talk) 00:34, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
General consensus can easily be wrong and has happened many times before. EKT had the same treatment on the wikipage even after I had solved it, as all that existed was my post.
The primary source is still contested. South pole ball (talk) 20:01, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why the uncertainty?

Why are we putting Subways of Your Mind in "theories" and not changing the article name to match? This *is* the name of the song. FEX *is* the band behind the song. There's no ifs ands or buts - the song has been found. CyberAlexMM (talk) 21:13, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because we don't yet have any reliable sources confirming that it is. If and when we do we can change it. G-13114 (talk) 21:19, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://zeitungskiosk.nwzonline.de/titles/nwz/8389/publications/68055/pages/29 Day0han (talk) 23:57, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, I don't read German, and don't have a subscription to that newspaper, so I'm unable to use that to verify anything. Perhaps someone who has those things could relay what it says. G-13114 (talk) 08:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is 404Media not considered a reliable source? It is made up of ex-Vice Motherboard journalists. They're as solid as they come. They even just struck a deal to be published in WIRED. Uoqbon (talk) 08:03, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is covered in the section above. G-13114 (talk) 08:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The German newspaper clip proves the existence of the band Fex (which no-one disputed). No connection to the song. Kind regards, Grueslayer 09:07, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Two reliable sources just posted articles about the discovery: The Verge and Rolling Stone. Lazman321 (talk) 19:07, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's probably good enough. G-13114 (talk) 19:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It probably is too WP:OR to really matter, but adding to unlikelihood of lies or hoax:
1. a member of the band also sent a mod of the subreddit a live recording version from May 1985: https://vocaroo.com/13DTIzOJBVHA (in addition to the cassette version: https://vocaroo.com/19NFyeqYi7Zj )
a member of FEX (who I can verify at least also released recorded music with other German bands in the 80s) belatedly registered the song with GEMA (the german equivalent of USA's ASCAP) as "Like the Wind (Subways of Your Mind)" recently [after being contacted by the reddit commenter, who waited for clearance to share his positive ID for this] Donald Guy (talk) 20:46, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no uncertainty. However, because the process of finding the original recording played on NDR1 is still ongoing, I've added the sources with a "tentative" identification. -ProhibitOnions (T) 13:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Interview with the band member [de]

An interview has been published with the member of the band who released the full version: https://www.tz.de/muenchen/stadt/the-most-mysterious-song-on-the-internet-fex-muenchen-michael-haedrich-interview-93393569.html (in German)

as a primary source, it looks like a good start to getting a good conclusion should someone have a good reason to call tz.de a reliable source Indrora (talk) 11:37, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like Der Spiegel also hosted an interview. TZ may be a tabloid, but Der Spiegel is reputable if anything. Unfortunately, it is both in German and paywalled.
[1]https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/the-most-mysterious-song-on-the-internet-netzraetsel-nach-jahren-geloest-a-458f113c-64a0-468d-a1bc-5cba9e22b4ad
D.A.S.C. Talk to me! 14:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ugh the paywall is frustrating (if we had access to the text we can at least use Google translate for a rough translation), but the article looks promising as a source. ForsythiaJo (talk) 16:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the archive snapshot of the article in question: https://archive.is/zjNIo
You all can use it for reading the whole paywalled article for free.
Thank you. DJ Baguio (talk) 21:51, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FEX - Jenny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-neWFDisb8Q

This track is apparently sourced from Elite Special XZLP 5200, 1985, and appears to contain the same singer as the demo recording provided by Michael Haedrich. Any chance this could assist verification? 2A02:A455:5905:1:65A4:1831:6A38:BB04 (talk) 22:45, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Although related to the probable artists, its not related to TMMS the song itself (this page), I believe if it were to feature it be on the page of FEX if that were to exist. Correct me if I am wrong. 86.3.17.247 (talk) 23:25, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To add this does help assist in adding validity to the FEX artists, the common consensus is to wait until the FEX artists release original footage of the recording or release the original radio recording from Darius' rip. Both these should prove FEX are indeed the creators of TMMS. 86.3.17.247 (talk) 23:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 6 November 2024

Change "Unknown Artist" to "FEX" Change "The Most Mysterious song to Subways in your mind"

Add "the mystery was solved on November 4th 2024 when Reddit user u/marjin1412 came across an old newspaper article about the band FEX who had won a talent contest in Bremen in 1984. The user had recognized one of the band members and asked from him to send some old material from those bands and was sent a handful of songs, one of which was titled "Subways of your mind" which upon listening would be found out to be the mysterious song" Sklanders43 (talk) 04:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Already done Liu1126 (talk) 00:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should FEX get its' own page?

With the amount of interest surrounding TMS, it might be enough for FEX to secure its' own Wikipedia page, which would allow us to document any other songs that are found from the band in their discography. Mrblue630 (talk) 02:54, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Would be. Gonna create later. Article created. Ahri Boy (talk) 04:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article has already been created, but I don't know if it's entirely necessary at this point. They were (as far as I can tell) a short-lived band that are primarily known for this one song, which already has an article. The FEX article is just going to repeat information. There are some talks of a reunion and it's possible that their other songs will become more well-known, but claiming that they will become notable is crystal balling. /Jiiimbooh » TALK – CONTRIBS 13:40, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

NDR Live Performance earlier today, 7/11/2024

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7t74F-LPlI

Might be worth adding to the Article. The band (minus the drummer, Hans Siever) got together on NDR and played a live unplugged version of Subways of your Mind for the first time. Mrblue630 (talk) 17:24, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yamaha DX7

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B9h48tC5DoI&t=13s&pp=2AENkAIB 3 days ago in the comments the question is answered with yes. 31.17.79.198 (talk) 22:38, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge of Fex (band) into Subways of Your Mind

Unless there is historical coverage on them, all coverage stems from this past week when the song was finally discovered. There seems to be zero evidence of historic or sustained coverage over the years prior. This appears to be a rare case like Ready 'n' Steady or Spelling on the Stone where the song is notable and the artist is not. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 16:29, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Reddit user who made the connection between the artist and the song did find an old article about them winning a song contest from 1984-5 in the archives of a German newspaper, would have to ask him for more info so it can be cited. They were also in the lineup for a music festival that has an article on German Wikipedia. So there is probably more coverage in old news archives. But the band was short-lived so it wouldn’t be a stretch to say the song is more notable (as much as I enjoy editing this page). Pyropylon98 (talk) 17:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
should say “enjoy editing the band’s page” Pyropylon98 (talk) 17:15, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really see a point to merge FEX into Subways of Your Mind. It'd make more sense to merge Subways of Your Mind into FEX, but not the other way round in my eyes. Unbreakify (talk) 18:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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