Talk:Subways of Your Mind

it's real, change the name

everything is real, stop calling it unknown, it's FEX - Subways of your Mind, call it the The Most Mysterious Song on the Internet, but stop edit it to unknown — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gsdgsdf (talk • contribs) 15:35, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

While I agree, I'm fairly certain that we need to have secondary and teriary sources to back it up before the change is made. When we get those, as well as further information, we can change it. Also, there's apparently a live recording now? Might want to make a note of that. YoProMama (talk) 01:57, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

They did find TMMS, and the source was confirmed, but, in my opinion, we should still keep the article name as "The Most Mysterious Song on the Internet" according to WP:COMMONNAME. The song can be referred to as Subways of Your Mind in the infobox, though, and at the top of the article in bold. The move to "Subways of Your Mind" might be confusing to a lot of readers. RidgelantRL (talk) 18:04, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

"The Most Mysterious Song" still exists as a redirect to the page, and the former alias is included in the first paragraph. Unless the band decides to rename the song, I see no reason to change it. The Most Mysterious Song was always a placeholder name anyway because we didn't know the actual name. We had a similar discussion at Ulterior Motives (song) after it was found. ForsythiaJo (talk) 18:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

FEX - Subways of Your Mind is unconfirmed - 04/11/2024

With the solve post, people have begun editing this page without it truly being confirmed yet. This is a normal process for Lostwave and shouldn't be excused for a TMMS either. Reverting the changes until its confirmed. South pole ball (talk) 16:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, there are no secondary sources confirming it as yet. We can't use a forum post as a primary reference. G-13114 (talk) 17:57, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Even disregarding secondary sources, the only primary source is still contested. The history of this song has been the target of many hoaxes, until more primary sources are shown the solve is still considered unconfirmed by many regarded researchers. South pole ball (talk) 18:23, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Agreed that any new additions (for the moment) should clearly state that this is a claim being made and not a confirmed fact. Ideally I'd like to see a reliable source say that they've talked to the band directly and confirmed there is material proof. ForsythiaJo (talk) 18:22, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

On this topic, source 15 is a dubious source at best. Even its footnotes state it might not be true, whilst the rest of the source is a rip of the new audio file.

https://www.tsugi.fr/la-chanson-plus-mysterieuse-dinternet-a-ete-trouvee/ South pole ball (talk) 18:33, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, the source is more reporting on the post than the veracity of the discovery. That said, if the website itself is reliable then we could use to source that this is a claim being made, even if we can't use it to cite that this is true.

I don't have strong opinions either way whether we choose to leave the claim or take it out entirely for the time being. ForsythiaJo (talk) 18:36, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I've just requested page protection, which might help with the number of edits we're seeing. ForsythiaJo (talk) 18:26, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I've also added some invisible text notes to discourage people from editing the Infobox or lead in light of the Reddit post. ForsythiaJo (talk) 18:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd say it's pretty much confirmed, we HAVE the finished song, we HAVE a PHYSICAL COPY of the song Flixxy0 (talk) 18:58, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

We do not have a physical copy, we have a new audio file from FEX, the supposed artists. But as any time in the Lostwave community would show, that means nothing. People can easily recreate songs now that appear almost exact like the originals.

The only other evidence we have is that this FEX band is real (from the 1980s news clippings) yet that does not prove they had made the song.

Patience is the key, other similar songs like 'Edge of a Dream' or 'Treadmill of Time' spent years waiting for confirmation. TMMS is the most sought after lost song, we should treat it with the respect it deserves. South pole ball (talk) 19:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, there's no need to rush, wikipedia is rightly cautious, and should set a high bar of confirmation before we can definitively say that the mystery has been solved. After all, if this turns out to be another hoax then caution will have been vindicated. If it is legit, then there's no harm in waiting a bit. G-13114 (talk) 19:24, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Except we do have a physical copy of the song, https://i.redd.it/x6lslr53jvyd1.jpg?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

There's also evidence of FEX being an Flixxy0 (talk) 19:32, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

That is a photo of a cassette, this again proves nothing. I could purchase a cassette and print a photo onto for pennies. All evidence so far provided does not remove their burden of proof, no official documentation that had existed during the recording of TMMS has been shown.

We have a GEMA archive which had been registered in the last 2 weeks, as confirmed by the primary source. Which would have been the only evidence we have seen so far.

Although the vocal tracks are very similar, we live in the world of AI now. It is not something that can not be falsified. Please have patience. South pole ball (talk) 19:39, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

It's not AI, there are MULTIPLE signs something is AI, this has none of them.

Also you keep saying we need a secondary source, where are we going to get a secondary source from? If we go by your insistence we need a secondary source, then that means so many found lostwave songs aren't actually verifiably found because there isn't a "secondary source".

In the meantime the general consensus is that it was found, and I believe it should be marked as such Flixxy0 (talk) 19:47, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

We can't use Reddit as a principle source because it's user generated content. We need to wait until some reputable news website or magazine etc picks up the story and verifies it. G-13114 (talk) 19:59, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

404Media has an article out that was published literally 10 minutes ago, do we consider that reputable? If not, what's the criteria?

https://www.404media.co/the-most-mysterious-song-on-the-internet-has-finally-been-identified/ CyberAlexMM (talk) 21:18, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

They're the guys who used to write for Vice Motherboard 2604:2D80:D105:A900:AF15:E006:AA76:DAF2 (talk) 21:24, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Quote from 404Media: "It seems as if the mystery is solved, but the community is still double checking marjin1412’s work. The Mysterious Song Discord server is in read-only mode while the mods wait for more information". So we can use this article to cite the claim, but again the article itself is not confirming the creators/name of the song. ForsythiaJo (talk) 23:15, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Then I have a feeling we're not gonna get a definitive article for a while. Major news publications would not cover this normally, let alone on Election Day. CyberAlexMM (talk) 00:34, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

General consensus can easily be wrong and has happened many times before. EKT had the same treatment on the wikipage even after I had solved it, as all that existed was my post.

The primary source is still contested. South pole ball (talk) 20:01, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Why the uncertainty?

Why are we putting Subways of Your Mind in "theories" and not changing the article name to match? This *is* the name of the song. FEX *is* the band behind the song. There's no ifs ands or buts - the song has been found. CyberAlexMM (talk) 21:13, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Because we don't yet have any reliable sources confirming that it is. If and when we do we can change it. G-13114 (talk) 21:19, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

https://zeitungskiosk.nwzonline.de/titles/nwz/8389/publications/68055/pages/29 Day0han (talk) 23:57, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't read German, and don't have a subscription to that newspaper, so I'm unable to use that to verify anything. Perhaps someone who has those things could relay what it says. G-13114 (talk) 08:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Is 404Media not considered a reliable source? It is made up of ex-Vice Motherboard journalists. They're as solid as they come. They even just struck a deal to be published in WIRED. Uoqbon (talk) 08:03, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

That is covered in the section above. G-13114 (talk) 08:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

The German newspaper clip proves the existence of the band Fex (which no-one disputed). No connection to the song. Kind regards, Grueslayer 09:07, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Two reliable sources just posted articles about the discovery: The Verge and Rolling Stone. Lazman321 (talk) 19:07, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

I think that's probably good enough. G-13114 (talk) 19:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

It probably is too WP:OR to really matter, but adding to unlikelihood of lies or hoax:

1. a member of the band also sent a mod of the subreddit a live recording version from May 1985: https://vocaroo.com/13DTIzOJBVHA (in addition to the cassette version: https://vocaroo.com/19NFyeqYi7Zj )

a member of FEX (who I can verify at least also released recorded music with other German bands in the 80s) belatedly registered the song with GEMA (the german equivalent of USA's ASCAP) as "Like the Wind (Subways of Your Mind)" recently [after being contacted by the reddit commenter, who waited for clearance to share his positive ID for this] Donald Guy (talk) 20:46, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

There is no uncertainty. However, because the process of finding the original recording played on NDR1 is still ongoing, I've added the sources with a "tentative" identification. -ProhibitOnions ^(T) 13:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Interview with the band member [de]

An interview has been published with the member of the band who released the full version: https://www.tz.de/muenchen/stadt/the-most-mysterious-song-on-the-internet-fex-muenchen-michael-haedrich-interview-93393569.html (in German)

as a primary source, it looks like a good start to getting a good conclusion should someone have a good reason to call tz.de a reliable source Indrora (talk) 11:37, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Seems like Der Spiegel also hosted an interview. TZ may be a tabloid, but Der Spiegel is reputable if anything. Unfortunately, it is both in German and paywalled.

[1]https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/the-most-mysterious-song-on-the-internet-netzraetsel-nach-jahren-geloest-a-458f113c-64a0-468d-a1bc-5cba9e22b4ad

D._A.S.C. ^{Talk to me!} 14:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Ugh the paywall is frustrating (if we had access to the text we can at least use Google translate for a rough translation), but the article looks promising as a source. ForsythiaJo (talk) 16:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Here's the archive snapshot of the article in question: https://archive.is/zjNIo

You all can use it for reading the whole paywalled article for free.

Thank you. DJ Baguio (talk) 21:51, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

FEX - Jenny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-neWFDisb8Q

This track is apparently sourced from Elite Special XZLP 5200, 1985, and appears to contain the same singer as the demo recording provided by Michael Haedrich. Any chance this could assist verification? 2A02:A455:5905:1:65A4:1831:6A38:BB04 (talk) 22:45, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Although related to the probable artists, its not related to TMMS the song itself (this page), I believe if it were to feature it be on the page of FEX if that were to exist. Correct me if I am wrong. 86.3.17.247 (talk) 23:25, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

To add this does help assist in adding validity to the FEX artists, the common consensus is to wait until the FEX artists release original footage of the recording or release the original radio recording from Darius' rip. Both these should prove FEX are indeed the creators of TMMS. 86.3.17.247 (talk) 23:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 November 2024

Change "Unknown Artist" to "FEX" Change "The Most Mysterious song to Subways in your mind"

Add "the mystery was solved on November 4th 2024 when Reddit user u/marjin1412 came across an old newspaper article about the band FEX who had won a talent contest in Bremen in 1984. The user had recognized one of the band members and asked from him to send some old material from those bands and was sent a handful of songs, one of which was titled "Subways of your mind" which upon listening would be found out to be the mysterious song" Sklanders43 (talk) 04:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

 Already done Liu1126 (talk) 00:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Should FEX get its' own page?

With the amount of interest surrounding TMS, it might be enough for FEX to secure its' own Wikipedia page, which would allow us to document any other songs that are found from the band in their discography. Mrblue630 (talk) 02:54, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Would be. Gonna create later. Article created. Ahri Boy (talk) 04:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

The article has already been created, but I don't know if it's entirely necessary at this point. They were (as far as I can tell) a short-lived band that are primarily known for this one song, which already has an article. The FEX article is just going to repeat information. There are some talks of a reunion and it's possible that their other songs will become more well-known, but claiming that they will become notable is crystal balling. /Jiiimbooh » TALK – CONTRIBS 13:40, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

NDR Live Performance earlier today, 7/11/2024

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7t74F-LPlI

Might be worth adding to the Article. The band (minus the drummer, Hans Siever) got together on NDR and played a live unplugged version of Subways of your Mind for the first time. Mrblue630 (talk) 17:24, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Yamaha DX7

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B9h48tC5DoI&t=13s&pp=2AENkAIB 3 days ago in the comments the question is answered with yes. 31.17.79.198 (talk) 22:38, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Fex (band) into Subways of Your Mind

Unless there is historical coverage on them, all coverage stems from this past week when the song was finally discovered. There seems to be zero evidence of historic or sustained coverage over the years prior. This appears to be a rare case like Ready 'n' Steady or Spelling on the Stone where the song is notable and the artist is not. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 16:29, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

The Reddit user who made the connection between the artist and the song did find an old article about them winning a song contest from 1984-5 in the archives of a German newspaper, would have to ask him for more info so it can be cited. They were also in the lineup for a music festival that has an article on German Wikipedia. So there is probably more coverage in old news archives. But the band was short-lived so it wouldn’t be a stretch to say the song is more notable (as much as I enjoy editing this page). Pyropylon98 (talk) 17:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

should say “enjoy editing the band’s page” Pyropylon98 (talk) 17:15, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't really see a point to merge FEX into Subways of Your Mind. It'd make more sense to merge Subways of Your Mind into FEX, but not the other way round in my eyes. Unbreakify (talk) 18:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

While the band has become notorious for their song, interviews with credible sources reveal discussions about their wider musical contributions. Moreover, a newspaper excerpt from the 80s, which does not reference "Subways of Your Mind," stands as a unique source that could justify a separate page due to its significance. The article focuses solely on the band's award win, suggesting they would meet the notability criteria regardless of their association with the song. Mynameisfakeisthatok (talk) 20:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Marijn on Reddit sent me a photo of another article from 1984 that goes into detail about the talent competition they won. Unfortunately I don’t understand German. Pyropylon98 (talk) 22:18, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I personally think having it separate would be fine, as not only did we find some more songs done by them & some live performances, but there's a chance we'll get more music from them in the future, similar to Panchiko being known for D>E>A>T>H>M>E>T>A>L, and then after they got back together in 2020, they released their debut album Failed at Math(s) in 2023. This has been a long search for those that were looking for this song, and I think Fex should have their Wikipedia page separated because of how monumental the search had been, even with them at the moment being only known for Subways of Your Mind. Dboi226 (talk) 22:36, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I totally disagree with a merge. People are going OCD trying to dig up info -- which takes time since they disbanded 40 years ago and are German (not every scrap of historical information is readily available online, though we like to think it is), and they did seem to be locally very well known at the time. If and when someone unearths a treasure trove of information that's irrelevant to the song, it will get cut from that page, and if these guys attain more notoriety, it will make restoring the Fex page more difficult. Leave it be. DollarX (talk) 02:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree with DollarX here, although it has just been discovered, new information is sprouting up so it might as well just be left to grow overtime Unbreakify (talk) 09:36, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - It's really unnecessary to merge into one article. As many reliable sources are available, there's no reason to merge those articles. Ahri Boy (talk) 03:40, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - if there is enough information avaiable about the band, they're better off as separate articles Miiversal (talk) 19:17, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

@DollarX: @Unbreakify: @Ahri Boy:, @Miiversal:: have any of you found any coverage on the band predating last week? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 22:54, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I have cited two newspaper articles from 1984/85. Pyropylon98 (talk) 01:18, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Pyro for bringing in the newspapers. Ahri Boy (talk) 07:14, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't see the point of merging it into the song's article. The group itself is reuniting to do music once more, and they have history on their own. TwilightMidna (talk) 21:26, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - The song itself is more notable than the band which produced it. I would say "keep as is" or merge the band's article with this one (but certainly not the other way around). Earl of Arundel (talk) 23:31, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Is that "Fex" or "FEX"?

In the English Wikipedia, for some reason, they write "Fex", although the official YouTube channel of the group and the performers themselves write "FEX". Is there a need to change the spelling of the name? 188.163.69.27 (talk) 18:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

The band's logo is stylized in all uppercase. Maxeto0910 (talk) 21:22, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Exactly. It's not an acronym, and the band members pronounce it as a single word, rather than "Eff-E-Ex". 46.189.28.156 (talk) 17:36, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

MyHouse.Wad

Can we put the MyHouse.Wad part back in? 1timeuse75 (talk) 12:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)