Talk:Speculative fiction

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Not everything stated in this definition is correct.

Please define and describe what you see as wrong - otherwise why should your comment be considered?

Examples of Speculative Fiction

I'm still a little confused what speculative fiction is and it would help greatly if this article gave examples of known books in this particular literary genre. It might help if someone can add a list of novels that are considered speculative fiction. Thanks! -User:noneforall —Preceding comment was added at 23:22, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Another Major Sub-genre Should Be Included

I believe that Mystery should be included with the four other genres of speculative fiction. Because speculative fiction really hinges off what Professor Darko Suvin called the "novum." The novum is the agent of change which makes the "what if" question of any story possible. So the novum can be a change of character or location which will facilitate the story to proceed. The way the novum is handled in the story will define what kind of fiction the reader is encountering. Science fiction is where the novum is defined and logically explained from a known point of technology down to a new technology. Alternateive History (fiction) could be said to be a sub-set of science fiction. Fantasy is where the novum is not explained. Horror is where the novum is unknowable or the mind believes the novum could be destructive to the self if the novum were to be known. Finally, mystery should be included because it is a case of the novum, once known is realized not to be a novum. (For example consider “Sherlock Holmes and the Case of the Speckled Band: Something is killing people, we don’t know what it is—oh, it’s a snake.) Perhaps a link to a site on the novum, referencing Metamorphoses of Science Fiction by Darko Suvin. Particularly pay attention to the fourth chapter titled "SF and the novum."

Mason 22:49, 21 September 2005 (UTC)Mason Emerson[reply]

Technically, "speculative fiction" is redundant since all fiction speculates to some degree. However, "speculative fiction," as used today, doesn't refer to mystery unless there is some sort of fantastical or futuristic element involved. --nihon 19:34, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's an interesting point, though certainly debatable. Since you've cited a reference, I would go ahead and put a section in the article relating to this matter. Just make sure you cite it as one theory/approach to the definition of SF. Orange ginger (talk) 11:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rewritten to go with the new science fiction scope section

I have completely rewritten this entry. It was thin, tendentious, and historically naive — rather obviously written by a "speculative fiction" partisan with an ax to grind.

Esr 07:12, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like someone thought it was "vandalism"... Scix 19:12, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It wasn't and I reverted. Please do not throw that word around to revert based on a pure content dispute. It's not helpful. Just discuss it here. We can all get along.Gator (talk) 19:20, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with many of the new assumptions in the article. I know many fans ("serious" and not as serious) that have no problem with the phrase "speculative fiction" and frequently use it. How do you know Heinlein coined the term? How do we know Ellison was the main force behind this "New Wave" to which you refer? Calling anyone who uses the term a "partisan" is putting a rather narrow-minded and ugly label on them, too. Just because someone prefers one term over another doesn't make them a partisan. It seems to be mostly a personal preference as most of the people I know will use "science fiction" when referring specifically to science fiction, "fantasy" when referring to fantasy, "horror" when referring to horror, and "speculative fiction" when referring to all forms of the genre. Do you have some references to support these new theories, or are you just speculating yourself? --nihon 19:31, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, so instead of a revert-war, discuss, and have the article reflect the best information form all sides. Scix 19:55, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What revert war? I don't think one reversion makes it into a war. --nihon 18:39, 11 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Of course not -- I was pre-emptively suggesting Scix 20:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly agree with nihon and strongly disagree with several of the article's current statements. Plenty of people in the science fiction/speculative fiction world (including readers, authors, and editors) use the term "speculative fiction" as a convenient general catch-all term inclusive of science fiction and fantasy, with no partisanship or political axe to grind. The sentence that used to make this point was removed in ESR's rewrite; I hope to reinstate something like that sentence to the article, along with some further discussion of the issue.

I gather that ESR is right that Heinlein coined the term, btw; however, the term is not limited to the uses suggested by the current version of the article. ...Here's a quote from the introduction to Samuel R. Delany's 1977 book of critical essays The Jewel-Hinged Jaw: "[The term 'speculative fiction'], roughly between 1964 and 1972, was an active term among a number of science fiction writers (borrowed, in some cases unknowingly, from Heinlein a decade and a half earlier) in their talk with one another about what they and a number of other writers were doing. Since then, it has by and large passed out of the talk of these same writers, except as a historical reference." (I believe Delany was one of the writers who used the term during that period.) My point being that the use of terms changes over time and across groups; the term "speculative fiction" has been used in at least three different periods and contexts (Heinlein, New Wave, and today), and the fact that it may once have been used politically by New Wave advocates does not mean it can't be used in any other way today by other people.

I do agree with ESR that the previous version of the article was politically slanted, and I applaud his intent in rewriting it. However, the resulting article is now significantly slanted in the opposite direction. Let's try and find some objective middle ground, talking about how the term is used rather than what we think of the political stances of those who use it. We can certainly say that the term has been used politically; it has. But let's not say that that's the only way it's used. --Elysdir 00:11, 31 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I've done another rewrite. In the new version, I've edited heavily for NPOV, and added some facts (including specific citations about the first uses of the term). The new version is far from perfect, but I think it's more accurate and more NPOV than either of the previous two major versions. If you disagree, of course, feel free to do further revision. --Elysdir 00:57, 31 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Neologism?

This term has been used in the writing biz for years, I don't see how it can be called a neologism. I'll remove it from that category. If you disagree, please explain here and inform me on my talk page. - Mgm|^(talk) 10:50, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Failed history and speculative fiction

I have created Failed history - the factual equivalent of speculative fiction. Additional information (including for the section headed Science Fiction) welcome. Jackiespeel 16:21, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

German Egotism?

"The term was mildly publicised by the famed writer Gunter Habenstein in the late 1980s. Recently, playwrights such as Donald Argenburger and Friedich Babenzen have also used the term. Many prominent theorists suggest that this trend is a type of German Egotism, however that is still up for debate. See Germany and Policy for more information." This paragraph seems out of place. What theorists? What do they mean by "German Egotism"? Why the pointless link to Germany and Policy? And who cares? I suggest this paragraph should be deleted if it can't be made more substantial and pertinent. Trinite 05:35, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I came here to the talk page to express exactly the same concern. Since that makes two of us, I've removed it. (It's uncited, makes no sense ("speculative fiction" "German Egotism" on Google leads here and nowhere else, and it's an anon IP's only edit -- I rather suspect it's a "how long does false info stay in Wikipedia?" test.) If anyone can explain a) what it's all about and b) how it's relevant, please enlighten us! --Bth 11:59, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Extra LIMBS???

That would look really odd, wouldn't it? The averager would turn the page in about 5 seconds, but at least me like to see ads because they have nice photos (colors, sharpness, saturation) and I believe I would have noticed if counciously looking at someone with three legs! 200.230.213.152 17:40, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sources Needed

Someone needs to find some academic sources on this subject and cite them. This is all just pulled out of thin air. That's not to say it isn't true, but...

Perhaps I'll be one to do it.Orange ginger 20:52, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Other inclusions?

While not generally considered a part of Spec. Fic., Hist. Fic. is really a type of spec. fic.—alternate reality history isn't all that far a cry from normal historical fiction (well, depending on the book in question)… perhaps something about the link should be mentioned in this article?

Also, some "literature" which is neither Fantasy nor Sci-Fi should fall under Spec. Fic. For example, Lord of the Flies seems clearly Spec. Fic. to me, though it doesn't necessarily fall under any of the genres mentioned. The Jade Knight 11:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]