Talk:Unapologetic
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Discussion on deletion
I know this isn't really my article or anything, but its well-written and completely getting to a starting point where it has enough information! In about the next month, it will have more sources, charts, and information to go around! It shouldn't be a problem when I'm on Wikipedia and I see all these new albums that are coming out later in the year and they barely have information to begin with! This article has a decent amout of sources and information to start off with, but tell me this, what is the real problem? The Smell of Magic 01:13, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Unapologetic or Side Effects
The article is listed as the former, but the lead cites it as the latter, which is it? AARON• TALK 16:33, 11 October 2012 (UTC) It is Unapologetic --PidiContent (talk) 16:35, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
Artwork sources
- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2216278/A-nude-Rihanna-debuts-cover-new-album.html
- http://www.rte.ie/ten/2012/1011/rihanna1.html
- http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1695328/rihanna-unapologetic-album.jhtml
- http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-rihanna-new-album-unapologetic-20121011,0,588221.story
AARON• TALK 16:37, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
Is this tracklist official?
Is this the official tracklist?
1. Diamonds 2. I Just Want To Be Found 3. What's Love Without A Tragedy 4. Isis 5. Life Is Beautiful 6. In Media Res 7. I Want You To Say 8. Heart Break 9. Go Harder Than My Nani 10. My Navy 11. Love Numb 12. I'm A Roc Girl 13. Love Now 14. Complete Woman 15. Petals 16. Jah — Preceding unsigned comment added by PidiContent (talk • contribs) 14:08, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
- Of course not, where is the source? — Tomíca(T2ME) 14:46, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
- I highly doubt there would be a song "My Navy". That sounds too ridiculous to be real (aside from Tommy's point).--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 20:43, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
- Of course not. It was invented by a member of the navy of course, the whole track listing. :) — Tomíca(T2ME) 20:46, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
- I highly doubt there would be a song "My Navy". That sounds too ridiculous to be real (aside from Tommy's point).--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 20:43, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
Unapologetic Release Date
wasn't Unapologetic supposed to be released on November 19th, 2012 worldwide? :/ why does this page show different release days for the album? even on rihanna's twitter the background says 11/19/12 Worldwide — Preceding unsigned comment added by PidiContent (talk • contribs) 14:42, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
- If you see the links in the release history table, you should notice in certain territories it will be released on November 16, 2012, and on Wikipedia we always use the first release date. — Tomíca(T2ME) 15:28, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Release date
In Sweden release date changed from 16 to 21 November (so first release date is November 19, 2012) http://cdon.se/musik/rihanna/unapologetic_-_deluxe_explicit_(cd%2bdvd)-21556914 . 83.4.131.232 (talk) 18:31, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Kanye on Jump?
is he in the writing credits? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Born2booze09 (talk • contribs) 23:04, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
It totally sounds like Yeezy to me (albeit with his voice altered) but at first I didn't even recognize him. Though I think it is Kanye, there's no current source to confirm it. And he's not listed on the tracklist so even if it is him, he may not be an official feature and may only be providing uncredited vocals. The album just leaked so lots of info will be flooding in, no reason to add uncredited stuff currently. But yeah, that's Kanye. Bruce Campbell (talk) 23:15, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- OMG it leaked. Can you give me link where I can hear the album?:) — Tomíca(T2ME) 23:18, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- Found it on Atrilli.net. It's really good. Bruce Campbell (talk) 23:25, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Guys, it's A$AP Rocky. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.55.109.152 (talk) 05:21, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- At this point I need a source just so I dont lose my mind... Bruce Campbell (talk) 17:15, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- If you ask me, it's Kanye :) ! But, still it's not officially credited. — Tomíca(T2ME) 17:25, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- At this point I need a source just so I dont lose my mind... Bruce Campbell (talk) 17:15, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
it's Kevin Cossum — Preceding unsigned comment added by Born2booze09 (talk • contribs) 21:55, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Edit request on 17 November 2012
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numb samples can't tell me nothing, and the citation for that is on jump... it's all sorts of wrong
74.76.204.131 (talk) 17:55, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. ⋘HueSatLum ? ❢⋙ 17:21, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Songwriter Credit
Yesterday Rihanna's website posted the album credits that do differ from the booklet. Including Rihanna as a writer for 12 of the 15 songs. [1] The site says that the credits are updated from the booklet, so should the credits from the site be used or the booklet? Seth71 (talk) 01:44, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- The ones with the album booklet. — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 [talk] 13:21, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- Pretty odd, whichever's incorrect. You'd expect a high-profile release to be more tidy about stuff like this. Perhaps make a note at the bottom of the track listing template that the website credits Rihanna on tracks so-and-so? Dan56 (talk) 13:27, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- There is a note already. The booklet is fucked up, probably they will correct in the later publishing. — Tomíca(T2ME) 13:31, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- Are the producers for track 3 actually credited with "@"'s in the booklet? Dan56 (talk) 13:40, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- Yes. Awkward, I know. — Tomíca(T2ME) 13:42, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- The Official and Digital booklet should be the only source. Her fansite/website is not as reliable as BMI and or the booklet, so for now, the Booklet and the Digital Booklet, along with BMI, should be the only credible sources. 74.67.47.245 (talk) 19:54, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- How can her official site rihannanow.com not be reliable? The fact is that the booklet is wrong and has certain issues, the website has the right credits. Adele didn't write "Half of Me", it was Adele Emely Sande, however, the booklet lists Adele separately. — Tomíca(T2ME) 22:18, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- The Official and Digital booklet should be the only source. Her fansite/website is not as reliable as BMI and or the booklet, so for now, the Booklet and the Digital Booklet, along with BMI, should be the only credible sources. 74.67.47.245 (talk) 19:54, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- Yes. Awkward, I know. — Tomíca(T2ME) 13:42, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- Are the producers for track 3 actually credited with "@"'s in the booklet? Dan56 (talk) 13:40, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- There is a note already. The booklet is fucked up, probably they will correct in the later publishing. — Tomíca(T2ME) 13:31, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- Pretty odd, whichever's incorrect. You'd expect a high-profile release to be more tidy about stuff like this. Perhaps make a note at the bottom of the track listing template that the website credits Rihanna on tracks so-and-so? Dan56 (talk) 13:27, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
This proves that they messed up the booklet, the only good source then is her website.--(CA)Giacobbe (talk) 23:35, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Metacritic
I strongly feel that the opening should say "generally favorable reviews from music critics" instead of "mixed". I've had this discussion with User:Fidelove but they seem intent on putting mixed even though I have explained to them that the "grade" on Metacritic states that it indicated "generally favorable reviews" I have agreed with them that it isn't a perfectly reviewed album and that is why I put how critics felt the album was rushed. For now, the album should say the album received generally favorable reviews if that is what Metacritic says, no? And if the user is intent on changing the opening, then they should at least change the Critical Reception section, which would be vandalism anyway because the source does not agree with this. Iluvrihanna24 (talk) 10:37, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you Tomica for sorting that situation out as I didn't want to violate my editing restrictions. Iluvrihanna24 (talk) 11:10, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
- There are other news sources that verify "mixed" (Caribbean360 [2], Digital Spy [3], Chicago Tribune [4], AnyDecentMusic? [5]), but any statement in the lead about the reception might be premature. While Metacritic does show more mixed reviews than either negative or positive, they weigh different publications differently in their scores, and it's also early, so it would be incomplete if more reviews were to come. As of now, though, this should suffice. Dan56 (talk) 18:04, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Album Artwork Controversy
there should be a section in the article surrounding the album cover and the "uncensored version" going around the internet — Preceding unsigned comment added by Distortiondude (talk • contribs) 03:58, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Chart Debut in Australia
Unapologetic debuted this week at No. 8 on the Official ARIA Chart (link: http://www.ariacharts.com.au/chart/albums/370 ) and at No. 1 on the Urban Chart (link: http://www.ariacharts.com.au/chart/urban-albums/367 ) I would add the data myself although I'm not exactly sure how. 58.165.62.140 (talk) 05:36, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Unapologetic? Let's "Pon De Replay".
This may not get a Wiki edit at all, but for those out there looking for a point on what this lucky seven effort by an artist who tells us she has been unapologetic throughout her whole music career, then read on. Seven albums in a span of 8 years, an in and out relationship with every high profile man, acting in film, near-constant working herself to death, tweets back and forth, abandoning her record company bosses, smoking like a train, getting hospitalized, and still she goes right back into all of this. Year after year, and so far..... She deems herself unapologetic. Just like James Brown's slogan, only.... The Hardest Working Woman In Show Business. Fortunately, she's only 24 years old. To mainly, everybody she's touched in her life: Her fans should not feel guilty to be a huge fan of hers. She can't undo seven albums in eight years. She has been smoking behind closed doors. She continues to sing, dance and party. Now she returns back to arms that she longs for, those same ones that injured her. In short, this album tells us that Rihanna is unapologetic for "everything Rihanna". She's charged with even contemplating her music career to go in this direction. Guilty, but we can't punish her! She's cray cray. Signed, a Rihanna fan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.233.133.208 (talk) 20:14, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
"Songs" section
It needs to be rewritten. The same discussion was had with Christina Aguilera's Lotus. This section of The Emancipation of Mimi is described as an example of an appropriate "Songs" section, and in fact contributes to the good article status. May it be noted that it is included under a "Composition" heading, not "Music and lyrics". "Composition" describes the album's make-up as a whole, where "Songs and lyrics" describes each song's individual composition. The "Songs" section seen in Unapologetic is mainly nothing more than a gathering of quotes from other track-by-track reviews, and is just not formatted the way a Wikipedia article should be. Instead, it should consist of a more detailed description of styles and techniques presented in each song. 68DANNY2 (talk) 21:57, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
- Someone with the same preference changed that article long after it passed GAN, which was on July 18, 2011 (see "article milestones" at the top of Talk:The Emancipation of Mimi). Apparantely, it was nominated and passed with the section heading "Music and lyrics". Dont get "songs and lyrics", as if theyre two distinct aspects; wouldnt it be "music and lyrics" making up a song? Either way, according to WP:MOS: "Style and formatting choices should be consistent within an article, though not necessarily throughout Wikipedia as a whole. Where MOS makes provision for more than one style option, editors should not change an article from one of those options to another without a substantial reason ... If discussion cannot determine which style to use in an article, defer to the style used by the first major contributor." Dan56 (talk) 01:39, 28 November 2012 (UTC)\
Writing Credits
As much as I hate to admit it, Rihanna did not write or co-write any of these songs. She is not credited at all for any writing credits on the album footnotes, which is the best source we (wikipedia) can provide. Her label would have added her onto the credits on her website to make it appear as though she contributed the way she ACTUALLY did on Rated R and Talk That Talk. This needs to be discussed and reconfigured.
Pour It Up as second single?
Is Pour It Up the second single from the album? Look at Rihanna's tweet: https://twitter.com/rihanna/status/273917531968917504 --PidiContent (talk) 16:14, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
- No, it's just a fan-made artwork. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.126.59.201 (talk) 05:29, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
- How can it be a fan-made artwork if it was relased on rihanna's official twitter account? Anyway, the second single is Stay --PidiContent (talk) 23:34, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
- It is fake, Rihanna Daily posted the picture on Instagram stating a fan created it. Please wait for official confirmation about the next single. Sticky&Sweet12 (talk) 02:32, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Edit request on 3 December 2012
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Mikey Mike is also a producer on "Jump." He was left out of the physical booklet due to "lack of time to proof credits" on Def Jam's part. This is proven in the itunes version, where they updated the credit mistakes and his name is listed as producer along with Stargate and Chase n Status. His full name is Michael Brennan Williams, not to be confused with the other Mike Williams on the album(Mike Will Made It). 98.192.196.41 (talk) 03:00, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
- The digital booklet, provided by iTunes, and which I own, does include Mikey Mike. But, Rihanna reported mistakes on both booklets and the corrected credits are posted on her site. Here: [6] you can see the corrected credits, which does not include Mikey Mike. — ΛΧΣ21™ 03:12, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Pour It Up
It is the second single - Rihanna herself posted it on Instagram — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unapologeticwarrior2012 (talk • contribs) 22:18, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
- That doesn't make it a single. We need a release date or confirmation from the label/singer its a single. — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 [talk] 22:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Pour It Up & Stay, which is the next single?
According to most reliable websites and Rihanna herself (who posted the single artwork on her Instagram), "Pour it Up" is the next single. This is the only website that says "Stay" is, where did anyone hear that? Which one is the single? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.197.81.120 (talk) 22:26, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
- There goes Rihanna again, confusing people. The "Pour It Up" cover is fanmade. At the time, she was posted artwork done by her fans. Statυs (talk) 22:28, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
- Rihanna never explicitly said that "Pour it Up" was the second single. She just posted a fan made cover art. Whereas it was confirmed that "Stay" was the next single when it was played on UK radio. Also confirmed at Popdust, MTV and Capital FM via Press Party — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 [talk] 22:33, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
- She just posted the cover art, which artists like Beyonce do all the time to coincide with their songs, but that doesn't confirm it as a single. Although if anything, Pour It Up would be released to urban and Stay to HAC/pop. But that's just my own opinion.--(CA)Giacobbe (talk) 03:03, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
- Rihanna never explicitly said that "Pour it Up" was the second single. She just posted a fan made cover art. Whereas it was confirmed that "Stay" was the next single when it was played on UK radio. Also confirmed at Popdust, MTV and Capital FM via Press Party — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 [talk] 22:33, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Tour removal
Is there a particular reason for this removal? I'd agree that all tour dates being listed is too much, as indicated by WP:ALBUMS/STYLE#Touring, but you also removed sources cited, making it hard to work the information in and condense it. Dan56 (talk) 22:20, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
Tour page
The tour has already been confirmed, so I don't see why it should be listed on the page of the album. It should have its own page as I just takes up space. MariAna_MiMi (Talk) 20:24, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Can we make a stand alone page for Diamonds World Tour? There is PLENTY of information for there too be it's own page. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JakeDee1 (talk • contribs) 22:23, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Genres
Almost every song on this album incorporates hip hop, obviously it would be a main genre for the album... Whatever318 (talk) 01:08, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
- It would obviously need to come from a reputed sources, like a music journalist, to be incorporated, as are the other genres cited in Unapologetic#Music and lyrics. Dan56 (talk) 01:37, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
- But since many songs that have their own articles from the album have hip hop sourced as a genre couldn't we just use those sources for this article...? Whatever318 (talk) 05:01, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
- That's deductive reasoning. And the couple of song articles you're referring to are either poorly sourced or unsourced altogether. Dan56 (talk) 05:15, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
- If they're bad articles why doesn't someone delete them...? Whatever318 (talk) 05:50, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
- No, I meant the genres in the infobox of those articles. I fixed Numb (Rihanna song), which had genres that were not verified by the source cited, while Pour It Up had no source citing "hip hop", so I found the best source I could find that specifies a genre (in this case "club") and cited it. Dan56 (talk) 05:58, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
- I think this source is good enough to include R&B. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 01:06, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- Well then, my previous message clearly went over your head. BTW, Dolan is already quoted in the Music and lyrics section, which you obviously haven't bothered to read, instead dead focused on slapping a genre onto that infobox. Dan56 (talk) 01:10, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- Then why did you revert my addition of R&B to the infobox? GabeMc (talk|contribs) 01:12, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- Well then, my previous message clearly went over your head. BTW, Dolan is already quoted in the Music and lyrics section, which you obviously haven't bothered to read, instead dead focused on slapping a genre onto that infobox. Dan56 (talk) 01:10, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- Well, you cited an awards category. If you understood how often other editors of this article have reverted each other because of available sources describing it as "R&B", or "dance"/"EDM", or something I think is equally valid, then you'd realize the line had to be drawn at the most explicit interpretation made, which is cited in that section--"Unapologetic is a pop album", which is what Greg Kot plainly said. "[This album] is a [genre] album" (from a reputed music critic) is where the line is drawn. Reasonable? Dan56 (talk) 01:20, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- Wikipedia aims to present competing views in proportion to their representation in reliable sources on the subject. This applies not only to article text, but to images, wikilinks, external links, categories, and all other material as well. Wikipedia:UNDUE Having it only listed as a pop album, and only a pop album, clearly goes against how common it is referred to as being a part of other genres in the sources already in the article. I think Dubstep might even be ahead of R&B in pure mentions (quality mentions and quantity) but it's clearly and overwhelmingly undue based on sources listed as well as the current the Music and lyrics section to only have Pop.__ E L A Q U E A T E 02:05, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- Well, you cited an awards category. If you understood how often other editors of this article have reverted each other because of available sources describing it as "R&B", or "dance"/"EDM", or something I think is equally valid, then you'd realize the line had to be drawn at the most explicit interpretation made, which is cited in that section--"Unapologetic is a pop album", which is what Greg Kot plainly said. "[This album] is a [genre] album" (from a reputed music critic) is where the line is drawn. Reasonable? Dan56 (talk) 01:20, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- "Pure mentions"? Which critics characterize this album as dubstep tho? I understand that a few songs are singled out, and that according to footnote 29 (Randall Roberts, LA Times) the songs "draw on" dubstep. Dan56 (talk) 02:12, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- Umm, you're slightly misreading that LA Times source to the reverse of what it said. Dance pop is what it says the songs "draw on", it's not talking about dubstep in that sentence. It actually says, She’s gone all-in on dubstep, which makes me think they don't think it's only a pop and nothing but pop album. This isn't about whether it's the best quality example of a dubstep or pop or R&B album, it's to help people navigate to articles about music styles commonly linked to this album by our sources. __ E L A Q U E A T E 02:49, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- How about this review from Vibe that says: "In the usual, sometimes vexing, Rihanna way, she achieves all this using a grab bag of genres, including ’90s R&B (“Jump” samples Ginuwine’s “Pony”), dub step, pop and a token Irie jam (consider "No Love Allowed" a less violent version of "Man Down")."" GabeMc (talk|contribs) 02:32, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- "Unapologetic is dark and sad, yet at the same time, it's dance-oriented and fun. The album itself morphs from Dubstep, to R&B, to ballads, EDM, to Pop-Reggae - and that is its biggest achilles heel. It isn't something that other jumping-genre albums couldn't get over if it weren't for the the fact that it suffers from a serious sequence problem". GabeMc (talk|contribs) 02:43, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- "Her seventh album in seven years is all filthy lyrics and crashing dubstep drops: R&B-pop turned up to 11." GabeMc (talk|contribs) 03:09, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- My two cents on the issue. I personally don't approve straight qualifications such as "Unapologetic is a pop album". Genres are subjective description of the music and should be dully noted that Greg Kot from the Chicago Tribune says the album is pop (unless a solid number of critics agree with him, of course). However, because I haven't edited the article at all, I don't want to oppose other editors who worked hard and build a certain consensus over the issue. But I do have problem when some self-proclaimed "genre expert" falsifies references to feed his obsession with genres on rock/heavy metal albums.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 12:57, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- As a member of the Rihanna WikiProject, I believe that R&B and dubstep should be included on the page, as there are many reviews that mention R&B in them, it's not like people are adding genres that have nothing to do with the album e.g. Britpop, traditional jazz, J-pop, grime which are not mentioned in anything, I believe that a certain user is being an unfair team member and has tunnel vision, if there are people who have picked up on that R&B and dubstep is mentioned the opposed source then it stands to reason as it should be included into the article who agrees? AlisaJay (talk) 21:15, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
Poll
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The purpose of this RfC is to determine if the community consensus supports adding R&B and dubstep to the infobox of this article. From the article, Unapologetic#Music and Lyrics: Rihanna spoke on the album’s sound saying she loves working with different sounds and putting them together.[22] Rihanna also added "Right now we're working on collecting and creating the sound first before we even start working on the lyrical direction or melodies. I kind of have an idea though, and it's very rough right now. So I'm very eager to start that."[23] Sean Garrett spoke on the album's sound saying it was "a great mish-mash of genres".[24] A review in Vibe magazine stated: "In the usual, sometimes vexing, Rihanna way, she achieves all this using a grab bag of genres, including '90s R&B ... dub step, pop and a token Irie jam."[25] According to The Guardian: "Her seventh album in seven years is all filthy lyrics and crashing dubstep drops: R&B-pop turned up to 11."[26] Rihanna revealed during an interview with GQ’s “Men of the Year” that she wanted her music to be uplifting saying “I want to make music that’s hopeful, uplifting. Nothing corny or supersentimental. I just want it to have the feeling that brings you out of whatever you’re going through. I want it to spark that fire. I want it to be real, authentic, and raw.”[27][28]
For the record, if you agree or disagree that R&B and dubstep should be included in the infobox please indicate that below. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 00:38, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- Support inclusion of R&B in the infobox. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 00:38, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- Oppose. Yeah sure, you can include it, if you find a third party reliable source stating the information. This poll is clearly ridiculous. Oh, and when reverting me, you are reverting my prose too, making it read bad! — Tomíca(T2ME) 00:41, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- Oppose. The pop label serves the genre field just fine. The record is quite definitely (not ostensibly, but definitely) a pop record even if just by the "popular culture" catch-all definition (though I could argue it's pop by many more definitions). The genre field is partially subjective and I dislike it but it's best to think of the genre field as helping a reader understand what genre an album is not rather than a precise descriptor of what the album is. "Pop" makes clear this isn't a rock, country, jazz, classical or hardcore album and so it is helpful for the reader. Whether the album is pop/R&B or pop/dance doesn't really matter and arguing over it isn't constructive. N4 (talk) 02:04, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
- Support R&B as per the Rolling Stone review used in the Reception section of the article, "Unapologetic's stark, shadowy R&B is confrontationally honest and sung within an inch of its life, whether she's turning a strip-club anthem into a declaration of independence ("Pour It Out") or pleading at the piano ("Stay")." DElliott (talk) 11:11, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
- Support I agree with DElliott, it states R&B in Rolling Stone and the article itself states it mainly is a R&B and pop album. So yeah. THE GTA Guy (talk) 15:13, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
- Discussion
Tomica, sorry, but you shouldn't copyedit while edit-warring. Answer me this, how explicitly do you need it stated? Tell me the exact phrase you need to hear. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 00:43, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- Explicitly like Greg Kot stated that it is a pop, same for R&B, dubstep and all the other genres. And who says I can't copy-edit? You made a new rule now? — Tomíca(T2ME) 17:37, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- I just meant that if you copy-edit while reverting your edits might get reverted, but anyway sorry. I'll be more careful. Are you really saying that a source need to explicitly use the exact words "its a XXX album" or you do not agree? Its a multi-genre LP, its not a one genre pop album. Many sources support this. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:40, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- We all know "Jump" is dubstep, "Loveeeeeee Song" is R&B and "Right Now" is EDM, but in whole we only have a reliable source saying explicitly is a pop record. The thing is, may songs have different genre, but as a package is Pop, we don't listen the genre of every song which is present on the album in the album's infobox. — Tomíca(T2ME) 17:46, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- What are your thoughts Elaqueate, Whatever318, Вик Ретлхед? GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:34, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
Has any of the editors quoting him bothered to look at what Greg Kot actually said? Apparently, he didn't even say it was a pop album. He said it was ostensibly a pop album. Have people somehow just forgotten the meaning of the word, "ostensibly"? The guidance for the infobox being used is also clear: One or more music genres that the album reflects, delimited by a comma and linked to corresponding articles. It says "reflects", not "explicitly pronounced in a specific word combination". So yes, I think we should have more than a single genre in the infobox, because I agree with Greg Kot and others that it can't be considered only a Pop album and that it reflects a couple of other genres. __ E L A Q U E A T E 18:24, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- FTR, ostensibly means: "apparently or purportedly, but perhaps not actually." Elaqueate, thanks for your comments, but don't forget to !vote in the poll. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 18:37, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- Great job GabeMc, just continue with the canvassing ;). — Tomíca(T2ME) 18:40, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- Tomica, Elaqueate was involved in the discussion prior to the RfC, so they can't be canvassed. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 18:43, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- Not when we talked about the Unapologetic genres as I can remember. Also you should re-read the comment you posted above. — Tomíca(T2ME) 18:44, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- Tomica, please re-read the discussion above the RfC. You'll see that Elaqueate commented there before I opened the RfC. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 18:46, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- I don't particularly care about the poll, but arguments based on bad reasoning shouldn't be given weight. Tomica, and others, should be a little concerned about the number of times they've asserted that something was explicitly stated when it explicitly wasn't. I can't be canvassed to a discussion I was already a part of. Wikipedia isn't a democracy, and consensus should be formed by better arguments. If genres in infoboxes were held to the standard you're proposing, we'd have to take Pop off as well. If people want to !vote instead of discuss, I'd suggest they should consider that this album is broadly and frequently claimed to reflect more than one genre, that it's described as genre-hopping, that no one quoted claims it's only a pop album, that it won awards designed for R&B albums, and that the infoboxes are intended to help readers know what topics are being discussed in the article, and to helpfully point them in the direction of connected topics. My view is that it should have more than a single genre of all the genres that are most commonly referenced by reliable sources. __ E L A Q U E A T E 19:03, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
I haven't listened the record, nor have edited the article, but I can tell that this thing with the music genres on Wikipedia is unnecessarily taking way too much energy from the editors. My advice: don't waste your time on such futile issue. Tomorrow someone else will come up with a review from USA Today saying "Unapologetic is goregrind album" and you will be arguing about the genre again. If you can't find compromise on this topic, then don't include a genre at all.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 19:06, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- I was just thinking on these lines. I agree if people can't form consensus on the genres reflected, then a claim about genre shouldn't be included until there is. __ E L A Q U E A T E 19:11, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- Partially support This source (Billboard) says:
From that we can properly infer that the album (1) is R&B, and (2) that it has some dubstep influences. Being influenced by dubstep is not completely the same as being within the genre of dubstep (i.e., that this is a dubstep album). Thus my suggestion would be some variation of: Pop • R&B (dubstep influenced). Or perhaps its infusion with dubstep can be mentioned in the lead and/or other parts of the article.Amping up on urban, dubstep-leaning R&B and scaling back on the often awkward sex jams that populated the second half of 2011's "Talk That Talk," "Unapologetic" is Rihanna's most confident, emotionally resonant work since 2009's "Rated R."
- Let me know what you all think. --Precision123 (talk) 02:58, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
- Partially support This source (Billboard) says:
- That bit ("amping up...") is relative to Talk That Talk--more urban, dubstep-leaning R&B and less awkward sex jams than... The dubstep "infusion" is mentioned throughout in "Music and lyrics". Dan56 (talk) 03:16, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
You're getting hung up on stupidly minor details. Just leave the genre as pop. Putting the sheer triviality of the issue aside, Rihanna never has (as far as I'm aware) claimed to be a dubstep producer. Some tracks may be influenced by dubstep but the album is not a dubstep album. That'd be like listing all rock records including a blues lick as being of the blues genre - it doesn't logically hold up. If individual songs have individual stylistic inflections, include it (referenced of course) on the page for the individual song or in the music and lyrics section where it belongs. Now, let's all just get on with our lives. N4 (talk) 02:04, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
- N4, I hope you're not misreading my last remark--I was in favor of leaving it as "pop" because it's explicitly attributed in the article ("pop record" → Unapologetic#cite_ref-Koski_69-1). My response to Precision123 was disproving his interpretation and saying that the source he's offering doesn't support "R&B" because the critic was just making a comparison to Talk That Talk rather than a straightforward characterization of this album's genre. Dan56 (talk) 03:19, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
- Dan56, I know you're in favor and I read your comment correctly. My own comment is a discussion comment on the RfC in general and not on your specific comment - that's why left it unthreaded. All the best. N4 (talk) 03:27, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
Reviews
Overall reaction to the album has been fairly mixed judging from reviews, there are several sources which even state the same. - Jak Fisher
- See Metacritic score and aggregation we use on Wikipedia so can tell what reviews an album got. 61 implies generally favorable reviews. — Tomíca(T2ME) 19:36, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia uses independent sources aswell, not just aggregate scores so saying that "we" use only aggregate scores is a bad argument as they themselves can't be varified, as metacritic weigh certain publications scores differently than others as they have said themselves, so it isn't balanced and wikipedia's rules clearly state that these sections in an article need to be backed up with several third-party sources. Plus there are many more mixed and negative reviews on metacritic than positive. Your argument is basically to base it all one source, which itself is nearing "mixed", which goes against wikipedias editing standards and its neutral point of view. Plus there are many albums that have gotten a "favourable" rating on metacritic that have been classed as mixed, just look at Ed Sheeran's album for one of many examples - Jak Fisher
- Of course we use independent sources on Wikipedia, but in different cases. For albums best notificator is Metacritic which aggregates the reviews. I suggest revert yourself, because you are argument don't see vaild tbh. And also this should be more discussed before is changed. — Tomíca(T2ME) 20:37, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Codes
In the first paragaph, all the text is shown as codes. Can someone more experient with Wikipedia editing fix that? --Alessandro159 (talk) 19:47, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
Content removal
There seems to be an edit war going on regarding the first paragraph of the background section, with editors removing it because they believe it does not belong in this article (20:37, 27 April 2013 by 80.41.69.184, 10:51, 13 April 2013 by Sebastiaan1234, 18:14, 12 April 2013 by Iluvrihanna24), before being reverted. If this is an issue of undue weight of content forking, then please explain yourselves at this talk page. Otherwise, don't remove it again. Dan56 (talk) 21:17, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
- Other users are correct, none of this content about Talk That Talk is relevant to the process of Unapologetic, much like the copied and pasted text being featured in single articles that I have to keep continually removing. None of this:
In November 2011, Rihanna released her sixth studio album entitled Talk That Talk. Musically, the album was rooted in pop, dance-pop and R&B, but also incorporated a variety of other musical genres such as hip hop, electro house, dancehall and dubstep, a genre which was prominent on her fourth studio album Rated R (2009). Talk That Talk received generally positive reviews from contemporary music critics upon its release. It was a commercial success and reached the top ten in over twenty national charts, including number one on the UK Albums Chart and number three on the US Billboard 200. The album produced six singles including the worldwide hits "We Found Love" and "Where Have You Been". "We Found Love" topped the charts in over 25 countries and sold over 6.5 million copies worldwide, making it one of the best-selling singles of all time.
is associated with Unapologetic at all. Why does We Found Love being number one and sales of the single affect this album? Why does the genre of Talk That Talk affect this album? Why do the reviews affect THIS album? I'm fed up of having to explain this when it seems so delusional to have any of this rubbish in this article. I think what really needs to be stated is that whoever is adding this content needs to explain themselves. Iluvrihanna24 (talk) 12:37, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
- Brief edit summaries through reverts are not appropriate. Tag the particular section you are disputing and discuss (Wikipedia:Content_dispute#How_to_initiate_an_NPOV_debate), especially when there are multiple editors on both sides of a dispute. Dan56 (talk) 12:53, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
- Reply to Iluvrihanna24: That's called a Background it's there for a reason. Go through nearly every album article and you will see information for the previous release, it's nothung unusual or strange, or something that should be removed. — Tomíca(T2ME) 16:13, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Paragraph used constantly
This same paragraph is used in every article that relates to the album:
- "In March 2012, Rihanna revealed that although she had not yet begun recording, she started "working on the new sound" for her seventh studio album. On September 7, following the singer's performance at the 2012 MTV Video Music Awards, she announced that she will embark on her fourth worldwide tour entitled the Diamonds World Tour, to support her then upcoming album. Rihanna's managing company Live Nation Entertainment posted a video on YouTube with the announcement of the North American dates of the tour. The tickets for the concert shows were made available a week later on September 14, 2012. Via her official Twitter account, Rihanna posted series of "teasing" tweets announcing the further release of the record. On October 11, 2012, in one of her tweets revealed that the title of her new album is Unapologetic alongside with its cover; On November 14, the European leg of the tour was announced. It is consisted of 36 concert shows and starts in Bilbao, Spain."
Why is this paragraph constantly used in every "Unapologetic" article?? Can we remove this from the other articles??!!! ChicagoWiz 22:28, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- Erm no, and that's not the same paragraph, it varies according how much it fits the respective article, because it's important for all of them! — Tomíca(T2ME) 22:32, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Umm... well it use to be in every article and it always has those same words! All of a sudden, it disappeared from the articles of the album's four singles -_- ChicagoWiz 23:35, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Yearly peaks
There is no reason to include chart peaks for each of two years for the same chart. If the album peaked at number one in 2012, there is no need to list that it peaked at number 6 in 2013. No other chart listings do it that way, and if there are others, they should be fixed as well. This is not recommended by MOS:CHARTS. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 19:04, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
What Now, next AUS single?
I've been hearing Rihanna's What Now everywhere in Australia and it currently has peaked at number #23 on the ARIA charts. It seems like the song is getting heavy airplay on the AUS radio and was confirmed on the radio as her next single. Does anyone have any validity to this and can back it up with it being released as the next single? Sticky&Sweet12 (talk) 05:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
Loveeeeeee Song Not A Single
Loveeeeeee Song was never officially released as a single to Radio. It was played on UK Radio but was not sent to the radio intended to be a single. Please remove this informatoion from this page and any other relevant pages. Rihanna never confirmed a single release of Loveeeeeee Song therefore this is incorrect information. Thankyou. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yeardley (talk • contribs) 19:28, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
- No, you're wrong, this is not true. If you read sources for "Right Now" and "What Now", you can clearly see that the sources describes them as the "fifth" and the "sixth" singles off the album. And then you look at "Loveeeeeee Song", which WAS SENT to radios in the UK as the FOURTH single. If you want proof, here are some reliable sources for "What Now" and "Right Now" that states that they're the fifth and sixth singles from the album. These are for "What Now": 1 2 and these are for "Right Now": 3 4 I don't have any for "Loveeeeeee Song", but these will get you to the point. ChicagoWiz 18:39, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
No Loveeeee Song is not an offical single, no promo, no single cover, no music video, no confirmation from Rihanna or her team different source saying what number single Right Now and What Now are isn't proof that Loveeee Song was a single by that logic Jump or Lost In Paradise could have been this apparent 'fourth single'. The addition is messing up the Unapologetic page and Discography and needs to be fixed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.152.143.24 (talk) 15:45, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- Just a note: isn't it a case of WP:ORIGINAL if we assume "Loveeeeeee song" was a single just because there are sources claming that "Right Now" and "What Now" were the fifth and sixth singles off the album? Decodet (talk) 16:25, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- We have a source of it being sent to UK R&B radio so I don't see the problem here. "Loveeeeeee Song" was a single, even though not hardly promoted. I remember starting to chart higher in the UK in April (the month it was sent) meaning people started knowing the song better. It is a single, and that's a fact. — Tomíca(T2ME) 22:06, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- Just a note: isn't it a case of WP:ORIGINAL if we assume "Loveeeeeee song" was a single just because there are sources claming that "Right Now" and "What Now" were the fifth and sixth singles off the album? Decodet (talk) 16:25, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
Colombia
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Please add that Unapologetic reached Gold in Colombia. Source: http://www.lax1039.com/Portal/index.php/videos-recomendados/item/614-rihanna-disco-de-oro-en-colombia
Thanks! --213.188.125.96 (talk) 18:17, 17 November 2013 (UTC) 213.188.125.96 (talk) 18:17, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The author of that post is not included in the "staff" listing for the website. Can you find a different source, possibly from Columbia? Thanks, Celestra (talk) 03:36, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
Page fully protected
Enough with the genre-warring. There have been enough reverts and edit-summary back-and-forths that blocks were imminent. In lieu of that you guys can hash it out on the talk page to reach some sort of consensus. --Jezebel'sPonyobons mots 00:07, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- Tomica, I think there's a possibility of a problem with one user and multiple accounts, since the editing patterns and content are identical or closely similar--12:41, 11 February 2014 by 82.132.221.233 (inactive after 11 February, 06:21, 12 February 2014 by AlisaJay (not active after 12 February), 18:52, 12 February 2014 by 86.142.51.177 (blocked on 12 February), and just now THE GTA Guy (his first two edits to Wikipedia were on 19 December, then a period of inactivity, and started editing again near the end of 12 February, editing the same articles the three aforementioned editors have been editing). Dan56 (talk) 21:18, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- Dan56 Yeah, I suspect there is a case of multiple sock puppetry. — Tomíca(T2ME) 00:20, 14 February 2014 (UTC)