Talk:Temporal paradox (paleontology)

	Paleontology portal This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Palaeontology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of palaeontology-related topics and create a standardized, informative, comprehensive and easy-to-use resource on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PalaeontologyWikipedia:WikiProject PalaeontologyTemplate:WikiProject PalaeontologyPalaeontology
Redirect	This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

Birds Redirect‑class Low‑importance

Temporal paradox (paleontology) is part of WikiProject Birds, an attempt at creating a standardized, informative and easy-to-use ornithological resource. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. Please do not substitute this template.BirdsWikipedia:WikiProject BirdsTemplate:WikiProject Birdsbird

Redirect

This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

Low

This redirect has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Birds To-do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : Endemic birds of Papua New Guinea (more)
Cleanup : Bullfinch • Vesper sparrow • Bird flight • Bird bath (more)
Copyedit : Plushcap • Magpie duck • Saker falcon (more)
Expand : Phalarope • Nidicolous • Gouldian finch • Cathartes • Cnemophilidae • Avian malaria (more)
NPOV : Debeaking • Driven grouse shooting • Abu Dhabi Falcon Hospital (more)
Stubs : Cathartiformes • Semiplumbeous hawk • Rainbow-bearded Thornbill • Sunda scops owl (more)
Update : Coal tit • Scottish crossbill • New Caledonian lorikeet • Operation Migration (more)
Verify : Argus (bird) • Blyth's frogmouth • Nik Borrow • Pytilia • Fregata • Chestnut-headed tesia • Darter • Pallid scops owl • Starling (more)
Wikify : Ninox boobook ocellata • The Institute for Bird Populations (more)
Other : Add photos to bird articles needing photos (search Flickr for free images). Add taxonomic authorities to genus articles.

More outstanding tasks at the project's cleanup listing, Category:Birds articles needing attention, and Wikipedia:WikiProject Birds/Todo.

Previous deletion

The previous version of this page was deleted for three stated reasons. The first is that it had inadequate references. The second is that editors felt its content should be moved to Origin of birds. The third is that an apparent consensus of the editors felt that the "temporal paradox" was, in their words, "balderdash". I hope that I have answered the first critique. The second is debatable, since it would make Origin of birds quite long and with a huge section on alternative theories much bigger than the content on consensus findings. i will consider a rewrite of the Origin of birds article in the near future.

But finally I would suggest that the third point is actually inappropriate. We may disagree with some hypotheses, but I feel that it is better policy to explain them and provide the critiques of them than it is to silence them or erase reference to them. In this example, a researcher trying to find out what the "temporal paradox" is can find a sketch of the arguments, the counterarguments, and good references to learn more, and they can make up their own minds.

Thank you.Jbrougham (talk) 03:06, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

AFD this article?

As Jbrougham notes above, this article was previously AFD'd (disclosure: initiated by myself) and the consensus was delete. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Temporal_paradox_%28paleontology%29

I think that the present version of this article still has serious problems.

I've started a discussion of this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Dinosaurs#Temporal_paradox_.28paleontology.29._It.27s_back._Need_to_re-AFD.3F

Anyone interested in commenting there is welcome to do so.

-- Writtenonsand (talk) 14:09, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Temporal "paradoxes" are not specific to birds and dinosaurs. Neglecting systematic differences in preservation potential, there's a 50% chance that the oldest known member of a clade is older than the oldest known member of the sister group (which lacks the specific morphological innovations which defines a clade). For successive further sister groups the chance decreases but can remain substantial. Temporal "paradoxes" should be expected to exist, especially in groups that don't fossilise well.

If the article is to be kept it should be less narrowly focussed on the specifics of birds, and more broadly on the general concept. Lavateraguy (talk) 20:50, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

AFD, redux

1. we don't delete whole articles due simply to lack of references - we tag them [unreferenced] or [refimprove], then work together to reference them
2. we don't delete articles because they belong elsewhere - we tag the relevant articles [merge to] and [merge from], then work together to merge them
3. we don't delete articles because they aren't part of the mainstream, even if they're fringe science - we add them to categories like [Fringe Science]

This article isn't about birds, it's about evolution and the fossil record. It's not quite the same topic as Temporal paradox, so shouldn't be merged there. Creationists hop all over our collective booty because this problem exists - things like coelacanth appear from nowhere, and by most measures, are unlikely to have evolved from anything, except they must've; but what? Darwin himself noted gaps in the fossil record pose a serious problem for the theory. Let's work together to say something here. Sbalfour (talk) 18:44, 21 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm confused., where is this coming from? (Coelocanths didnt come from no-where and that is well shown already)--Kev min § 18:52, 21 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]