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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 2001:56a:7944:9400:b077:ea25:fdb5:6ca4 (talk) at 04:36, 11 November 2020 (→Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2020: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Trimming and cleaning of list

Per comments brought up in the AfD, I have once again attempted to clean up the list. I have removed entries because of the following reasons:

  • Unlinked, non-notable entries per WP:NLIST.
  • Linked artists where the linked article is not the artist's article, but is instead their record company, group, or other artist where the linked artist is not mentioned in the article.
  • Most of the names you removed all at once appear to be linked and/or sourced, but some are clearly lacking in coverage and not linked. I think you definitely removed way too much at once without explaining why and you should be much more specific. Thanks for citing non-notable and WP:NLIST because I wasn't necessarily aware of those policies used on Wikipedia to define notability on an article. However, I believe some of the names you have again removed may merit notability on this article per linkage (see below) and/or WP:MUSIC SOURCES (see revision history). 71.82.112.140 (talk) 21:54, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If an article is created for one of the deleted entries, then they can be re-added at that point. Entries should not be listed because they may be linked at one point. Essentially write the article first, then add the link.

I also fixed the random order of the list by making the default sort order the name. I sorted it by hand, so mistakes may have been made with the order. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 19:55, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • In regards to random order, the article should be listed by year, preferably in subsections. In regards to wikilinks, unlinked does not necessarily define non-notability in an article (please note revision history). As requested in revision history, please discuss specific names here. Did you remove all of the Damu Ridas names where each name listed here was mentioned in that article? 71.82.112.140 (talk) 21:40, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Since you completely undid my edits twice, it is becoming more obvious to me that you have ownership issues with this article and it is time for a third opinion. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 21:59, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I did not claim ownership of the article (nor did I undo your edits twice). Please answer my question. Did you remove all of the Damu Ridas names where each name listed here was mentioned in that article? 71.82.112.140 (talk) 22:02, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If you actually looked at the revisions that I made instead of blindly reverting it, you could have answered that question yourself. But to answer it: No, I did not remove them. And you did undo my edits twice: [1] [2] -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 22:07, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You have been reported for making controversial edits, false claims, and removing sourced information. You are welcome to participate in the discussion at any time. This incident has gone too far because of your blatant, controversial edits backed by vague statements. Restoring information should not count as an undo. 71.82.112.140 (talk) 22:21, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Care to explain why you added unsourced information to the article and are edit-warring it back in, IP? Dolescum (talk) 00:07, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This needs a major cleanup. I started by removing all the entries that were not linked to any article and did not have a source. If any of these are added back i, it is the responsibility of the editor adding it back to provide a reliable source for the information. GB fan 00:14, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WP:3O request declined

I have declined a request at WP:3O relating to this thread, because it has been raised at WP:ANI#Reporting user. --Stfg (talk) 22:49, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

One month later

Since there was very little progress creating articles for the unlinked artists, I have once again removed all of artists that meet the following criteria:

  • Unlinked, non-notable entries per WP:NLIST.
  • Linked artists where the linked article is not the artist's article, but is instead their record company, group, or other artist where the linked artist is not mentioned in the article.

This was done per the feedback given in the AfD and when this article was discussed at WP:ANI. If an article is created for one of the deleted entries, then they can be re-added at that point. I also completed the sorting in date order started by GB fan. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 06:20, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Add Big Mello june 15 2002 drive bye Jam ai can (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Trimming

I feel like you can make this list for any genre (deceased pop artists, deceased country artists, deceased rock artists) and the names are just going to keep piling up, but something unique we can do is just list rappers who have been killed, since hip-hop does have an unusually high amount of artists that have been slain since the late 80s. This would be a much more articulate list, and I think it makes a lot more sense. It would show this unusually high number and the article will have a purpose. JTtheOG (talk) 22:35, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging users who have made significant contributions to the article for their input. @Magnolia677: @Bearcat: @Binksternet: @Jessicapierce: @RobDe68: @Materialscientist: @OswaldThePurveyour: @70.66.166.181: @112.205.159.175: @104.6.36.110: JTtheOG (talk) 23:26, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree with your proposal. Perhaps you can make a table of the rappers and provide a column for killed vs died of natural causes. Binksternet (talk) 00:16, 6 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you that this article has become cumbersome and unorganized over time. That said, I feel like it's important for the article to list important hip-hop artists (i.e. Eazy-E, J Dilla, Ol' Dirty Bastard, etc.) who died because of non-violent reasons as well as important artists who were killed (2Pac, Biggie, Proof, etc.). The trouble is how many lesser-known or insignificant artists are included on the list. Would it make sense to create some sort of threshold for significance so that the list can be trimmed? OswaldThePurveyour (talk) 00:51, 6 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It already exists: Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists#Content policies. That's why I removed half the names on the list today. Magnolia677 (talk) 01:01, 6 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the record, the only edit I've ever made to this page that I can locate is the removal of one non-notable entry, so I'm not sure I qualify as a significant contributor to this article. However, technically I agree that this is unmaintainable WP:TRIVIA — since every human being dies eventually, there's nothing particularly noteworthy or encyclopedic about being a dead hip hop musician per se. I'll grant that hip hop musicians have a greater tendency than musicians in other genres to die of violent causes rather than natural ones, but that would be best served by a narrower, more restrictive list than this — but every hip hop musician who has ever existed at all will eventually die, by virtue of being human, so there's no value in maintaining a list of all hip hop musicians who ever died when that list will eventually include all hip hop musicians who ever existed. Bearcat (talk) 17:43, 7 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How To Add

Big Mello Jam ai can (talk) 16:37, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Jimmy Wobo June 19 2018 shot/killed Pittsburgh PA Sheristoner (talk) 17:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Artist: Houdini Date: May 27 2020 cause of death: Shot/Killed Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada Swizik (talk) 19:56, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Swizik: Houdini is not notable on Wikipedia, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Houdini (rapper). Magnolia677 (talk) 20:42, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Renamed to List of murdered

Just letting people know that this used to be "List of deceased" but it was renamed to "List of murdered" after a second AfD discussion that resulted in a rename conclusion. The murders and other deaths had already been split, but I removed the other deaths section now entirely. It's still viewable from the history if needed. Mr. Magoo (talk) 14:51, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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apology

I apologize for making this article. Like I said it was never intended to be a list of murders. I lost access to the account I made it with after changing the password. I'm begging you to please find forgiveness in your hearts. I did not want to see anybody get murdered and it was NOT my original idea (I redirected some other pages to it like List of dead rappers). The idea started off as an obituary type page and a project to gather a more complete list of names of the deceased throughout hip hop history. Do NOT blow it out of proportion and please do not place all the blame on me, even though it was partially my fault. I am not fully responsible.

I have requested the page to be taken down via IP edits and it Wes denied. So its out of my control at this point. I love you guys and I miss all the ppl in my life, inside and out of rap music, who've passed away. Again please find forgiveness and please do not blow something small out of proportion, like a webpage.

P.s. it just so happens to be that most of the deaths were murders. I didn't do anything but copy and paste most of the info from rateyourmusic and will not be held fully responsible — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C46:4A00:ADE:99C6:44A4:CEB:487A (talk) 14:06, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

apology continued

This page has haunted me for years and when I last checked on it in 2016 i should have apologized right then as soon as discovering the title changed. The original page was List of deceased hip hop artists and it gave me a good opportunity to discover and rediscover some of the names of those who passed away.

If anything it should have been deleted per NOTMEMORIAL along with the similar page of deaths in rock and roll history because its just not appropriate to have a webpage sitting there waiting for famous deaths.

In America we seem to be OBSESSED with famous people who die and it is an unhealthy habit. Now for some reason I feel im the one who has to suffer with spying, stalking, unfunny jokes etc. Leading all the way up to my final breath just for looking up and sharing information? Its not right. And its not fair. Please try to see it from my point of view too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C46:4A00:ADE:99C6:44A4:CEB:487A (talk) 14:14, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

apology continued

Again people need to please forgive me for something so small that got blown this greatly out of proportion. I have apologized in depth for my mistakes and asked for forgiveness. Now its your turn to actually forgive me and realize im not some kind of a monster or killer, just a regular person with an unhealthy obsession with dead celebrities and idols just like most ppl. Do NOT throw me under the bus for this or make it into something its not.

Why are you apologizing? User:Ben0kto created this article, not you. And it's a good one! Shows all the murdered hip-hop musicians. It's funny when someone adds a non-notable to the list. I delete the entry and write "not yet notable"...knowing they never will be because they aren't doing a whole lot of new stuff. Take pride in this great article. Magnolia677 (talk) 02:17, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jimmy Wopo needs to be added.

Jimmy Wopo was shot and killed 4 hours after XXX. I tried to add but not sure I did it right. Sheristoner (talk) 17:55, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Done.--Lirim | T 21:09, 22 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Added Shmoneydance209 (talk) 17:15, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 12 November 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. The consensus is also that (regarding in a title) the definitions of "murdered", and "killed" are different. —usernamekiran(talk) 18:35, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]


List of murdered hip hop musicians → List of killed hip hop musicians – "Murder is premeditated", as Soetermans had said in his move reason. However, the move was reverted by Jc86035 for no clear reason. An RM is needed because the title was determined in the AfD. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 16:22, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @GeoffreyT2000:, on @MrMagoo and McBarker: talk page there was a discussion, with @Magnolia677:. Magnolia677 pointed that there was a discussion before, concerning the title, so I shouldn't have moved it to "killed" in the first place. I tried to undo my own move, but I was at my phone at the time and it kept crashing. Anyway.
  • Support, and I'll just copy-pasty my reasoning, I think using "murdered" here is misleading, or at least too narrow. Homicide is the act of killing another human being, but murder is intended. Going through the list, not every article makes it clear what their demise was.
  • The suspect in Paul C's killing was released because of lack of evidence
  • No conviction in the case of Danny Rodriguez
  • Seagram's death is unresolved
  • Fat Pat's death is unresolved
  • Flabba suffered a fatal stabwound

This might also be that murder in U.S. law has something as "second degree murder". For instance, in England and Wales, there's "murder" and "unlawful killing". In the Netherlands, "moord" ("murder") is intentional and premeditated. Murder is killing, but killing isn't necessarily murder. "Killed" does cover all deaths in these cases. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 16:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose - Not because I entirely disagree with the rationale, but because I think "killed" is kind of awkward and imprecise in another way. It gets away from the specifically notable topic, which has to do with homicide, not just being killed. You can be killed by an alligator, forklift, or disease. I'd prefer to see the colloquial meaning of "murdered" that retains the real meaning of the page to the overly broad "killed". I'm trying to think of a better formulation including "homicide" but everything I think of is kind of clunky. E.g. "List of homicides of hip hop musicians" or "List of hip hop musician homicides"... — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:47, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Rhododendrites: something like Violence in hip hop? A quick Google search brings up several reliable sources. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 20:31, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Rhodo. This is for artists who are victims of homocides, not those killed in plane crashes, car crashes, etc. My concern also applies to Lugnuts’ alternative. As an aside, shouldn’t it be “hip-hop musicians” in the title? Calidum 18:45, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The articles hip hop and hip hop music are dash-less too. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 19:42, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What about drive-by and gun-crime? BLAM! Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 20:07, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I would say that for WP:CONSISTENCY's sake, it should be kept to "hip hop" for now (or a move discussion to include a dash should be started at the article hip hop. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 20:31, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Magnolia677: So far most people here are opposing the proposed move (to "killed"), but I think it's fair to say that WP:CONSENSUSCANCHANGE, as @Lugnuts, Woofboy, and Rhododendrites: say that the current title isn't ideal either (if I may interpret their words as such). soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 20:31, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, yes, yes. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:11, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Juice Wrld

How is Juice Wrld on this list? All quoted sources state he died from a seizure and had blood in mouth, a common occurrence where seizure victims bite their tongues. There is no information anywhere that he was murdered or that murder was suspected. --Degen Earthfast (talk)

Removed Juice Wrld from list after finding no mention of him being murdered anywhere. --Degen Earthfast (talk) 17:35, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Juice WRLD

What are yall thoughts on his passing, he was such a good rapper and to seem him die this early in his life is very sad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.153.113.23 (talk) 16:03, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the List of murdered hip hop musicians article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Degen Earthfast (talk • contribs) 17:58, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2019

add Juice Wrld to the list, he recently died (I believe 2 days ago) due to cardiac arrest after a seizure 65.33.1.5 (talk) 20:50, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

He died but wasn't murdered. – Thjarkur (talk) 21:03, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rappers that died list

Old Dirty Basterd needs to be on this list. Apollo Spalletta (talk) 21:50, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 June 2020

Houdini, May 26 2020, Toronto ON Canada 173.32.110.145 (talk) 14:38, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@173.32.110.145: Houdini is not notable on Wikipedia, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Houdini (rapper). Magnolia677 (talk) 14:41, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Add Hounini

Someone add Houdini. The best rapper to come out of Toronto was tragically killed last month. A humble soul and the most talented by far. AstralKushGod (talk) 16:40, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@AstralKushGod: Please see the response just above this one. It is indeed tragic that when Houdini was targeted by two assassins on a busy downtown street, an innocent six-year-old boy was nearly killed in the crossfire when the assassins and Houdini's associates began firing at each other. Magnolia677 (talk) 17:11, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2020

File:Pop smoke
I still love you
    Pop smoke is still the best american rapper Because his music still hits and he is also will be my best rapper

kristoff plettenberg

lif fiwor[nharidsjicchyugbsxdcfvghjukiolp;'/. kmim njuhn bhgvcfdedrftgyhujikm, .;'[p;lokjnhbgtf6y7ujm m,.;'/][;plkjmnhbgvhbnjkm,l. ,.;p.'/, mnbvcfghbjnm ,./;plokm bgvtfvbhnjmk,lp, nbhbnjm,lkjhgvfcdxswasdefrgthnjkm,l mnbnhjkio,l. ,mnjbhgy7uhijokiknhbgjucgtf bnm,;kln — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:C081:7B00:A121:CF68:7F48:D766 (talk) 23:01, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2020

jared higgins aka juice wrld missing from list 2001:56A:7944:9400:B077:EA25:FDB5:6CA4 (talk) 04:36, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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