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This page lists all requests filed or identified as potentially controversial which are currently under discussion.
Do not attempt to edit this list manually; a bot will automatically update the page soon after the {{subst:Requested move}} template is added to the discussion on the relevant talk page. The entry is removed automatically soon after the discussion is closed. To make a change to an entry, make the change on the linked talk page.
Ghazala Javed → Murder of Ghazala Javed – (Discuss) – Nearly all sources in the article primarily cover the circumstances of Ghazala Javed's murder. Her murder has gained significant attention in media coverage, while details about her life and career receive relatively limited focus thus failing WP:SINGER. The article be renamed to the suggested title per WP:CRITERIA. There is enough information about her killing and later development such as this, this, and this. I think the suggested title be adopted per English language sources. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 13:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Bensci54 (talk) 17:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia02:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Expectation of privacy (United States) → Reasonable expectation of privacy – (Discuss) – Adjusted proposal per the outcome of the one above. This legal doctrine originated with the Katz ruling in 1967 and subsequent cases using that as a precedent have adopted the more precise phrasing "reasonable expectation of privacy". Also, the article's text as developed over the years focuses on the precise legal doctrine rather than a vague value. Note that this particular proposal would require a round-robin move due to an old mistargeted redirect, which I have the permissions to do. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 15:03, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Shiv Sena (2022–present) → Shiv Sena – (Discuss) – Currently, there are two separate pages—'Shiv Sena' and 'Shiv Sena (2022–Present)'—dedicated to the same political party. The party's leadership was disputed in 2022, but its existence remained unchanged. No reliable media refers to Shiv Sena as pre- or post-2022, making the current split unnecessary and inconsistent with how the party is described in sources. For additional clarity, please refer to the discussion on the talk page. I propose merging the 'Shiv Sena (2022–Present)' page into the main 'Shiv Sena' article, with developments post-2022 included as a subsection to provide a comprehensive historical narrative.
Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism/Manual of Style → Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism/Style advice – (Discuss) – Same as all the other wikiproject style advice essays (except a couple with more specific names). The present page title is misleading, as this is not part of the Wikipedia Manual of Style and is not a guideline, nor has it been through a WP:PROPOSAL process to become one. This move will be WP:CONSISTENT with prior moves of non-MoS pages that had "Manual of Style" or "MoS" in their names, most recently at WT:WikiProject Astronomy/Style advice#Requested move 26 October 2024, though there are many prior examples (a topically pertinent one is the essay formerly misnamed "WP:Manual of Style/New religious movements") . The potential for mischief with such "Manual of Style" page names (and creating and advertising inappropriate "MOS:FOO" shortcuts for them) is high, because editors who encounter them "cited" in talk-page arguments are highly likely to trust that they are MoS guidelines with the authority of community consensus acceptance, instead of being pre-PROPOSAL essays with only a small number of editors behind them and very little broader editorial community input. The advice in the page might even be good (though some of it is a bit ranty and much of it ironically has not been complying with the rest of MoS, which I cleaned up in one section). But it is not (yet?) part of MoS and should not masquerade as one. "MOS" shortcuts for this are being addressed at RfD, as was the MOS:ASTRO one for the astronomy style essay. — SMcCandlish☏¢ 😼 08:02, 24 November 2024 (UTC); RfD link added: 08:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keiki-dō → Keiki Province – (Discuss) – I think "Provinces" may be more appropriate, but still not sure. I moved all the other Korea prefecture pages from "-dō" to " Prefecture" following the category name, but @robertsky pointed out " Province" may be more appropriate. "Prefecture" has kind of a loose definition, per Prefecture and Prefectures of Japan. The nature of prefectures in various countries differs; it's not really clear to me how these differ from provinces, esp given that colonial Korea was governed differently from Japan. Both "prefecture" and "province" seem to be variously attested to for Korean provinces (as well as the use of transliterations of Korean names for Korean places during the colonial period). English terminology for Korean history is notoriously inconsistent. Reading Prefectures of Japan, it seems like "道" is also used for prefectures, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee that it would extend to Korea. Provinces of Japan seems to suggest that Japan itself adopted the prefecture system in the late 19th century, but that doesn't necessarily cover Korea. However, recent RS on the colonial period seem to use "province" for this period (although these all seem to write from Korea-centric perspectives; using Korean-language terms for concepts during the colonial period). * [35] * [36] * [37] * [38] Edit: more sources (see below for my analysis of the situation) * [39] * [40] * [41] * [42] *[43] In short, I think there's a WP:COMMONNAME argument to use "Province" instead of "Prefecture". Either of the two is certainly better than the previous "-dō". seefooddiet (talk) 05:25, 17 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia07:25, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comac C909 → Comac ARJ21 – (Discuss) – The article was previously moved from "Comac ARJ21" to "Comac C909", citing sources that claim Coma "renamed" the aircraft. However, after searching in Chinese sources, I found that the information which claim the aircraft have been renamed is actually incorrected, and what actually happened was an extra commercial name being added onto the aircraft model, and thus it was simply a rebranding attempt that try to attach a new brand name onto the aircraft. Therefore the previous move of the Wikipedia article without the new name being established seems improper and should be reversed. Sources: [44][zh] [45][zh] [46][en] C933103 (talk) 04:11, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Angels in Neon Genesis Evangelion → Angels (Neon Genesis Evangelion) – (Discuss) – While a small distinction, it is clear that not all Evangelion angels are actually named after real-life angels. Adam and Lilith, for example, are not actually angels as Christians know them, with Lilith going as far as to be a demon. Given this fact, calling them actual "angels" would be incomplete, and it is better to refer to them as "a fictional race of beings called angels", hence the change away from a natural disambiguation. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 00:38, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
November 23, 2024
Surtitles → Supertitles – (Discuss) – This article is currently at a trademarked name for the method. Unsure why it isn't using the original created name for the process made years earlier that is also not a trademarked name. Article also omitted mention of the original creator and only listed the guy who made said trademark as the developer until I changed it just now, so that's strange in itself. See some examples of sources at Sonya Friedman to see term usage and creation, with there also being many, many other uses of supertitles across news articles in the past several decades with a simple Newspapers.com search. Surtitles is definitely a notable trademarked term, but it is also notable in a way where it can exist in its own separate article on the specific manner of its usage. This article should be the overview article for the term supertitles and all of its history and usages, not just what it is in Canada. SilverserenC 23:04, 23 November 2024 (UTC) 22:27, 23 November 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). Raladic (talk) 23:07, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Larries → Larry Stylinson – (Discuss) – Since it's been almost two and a half years since the no consensus close of the previous move request, I thought it might be time to bring this discussion back up again. A good article title is consistent, and all the conspiracy theory articles that I have examined (see Category:Conspiracy theories) use the title of the theory, not the believers. For example, there is no anti-vaxxer article; there is only a Anti-vaccine activism article. There is no Flat-earther article; there is only a Modern flat Earth beliefs article. Other ships (see Category:Slash fiction) also use the name of the ship, not the fandom, albeit this is a unique topic in that it is about real people. In the last discussion, I heard that this article is somehow different in that the scholarship is more about the believers than the theory, but that isn't exactly true. For one, there is also scholarship documenting the actual theory. But also, the psychology of the believers is also central to other conspiracy theory articles (e.g. Modern flat Earth beliefs § Sociological explanations for counterfactual beliefs), which all still use the name of the theory. Additionally, "Larry Stylinson" is certainly more precise. "Larries" could potentially refer to multiple "Larry"s or "Larrie"s, or, as the ngram viewer shows, industrial/mining equipment. Although one could argue that the ship is the more common interpretation, it certainly hasn't been historically (and we aim to avoid WP:RECENTISM), and changing the title to "Larry Stylinson" would remove all possible ambiguity. BappleBusiness[talk]22:40, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tajiks of Xinjiang → Chinese Tajiks – (Discuss) – In previous discussions over a decade and a half ago, the main points of contention were: "Which name(s) is more commonly used in reliable sources (i.e. WP:COMMONNAME)?" and "Which name(s) is appropriate, given that 'Tajik' is a misnomer because the group is actually ethnic Pamiris?" Since the discussions in 2009, scholarly articles and books have generally been split in usage of "Tajiks of Xinjiang" and "Chinese Tajiks". Neither name solves the second problem, and adding "Pamiris" in parentheses isn't necessary, in my opinion. The group itself has a distinct history and culture, and it is not merely a situation of Pamiris being on a different side of an international border (i.e. not Tajikistan). The Chinese government uses the term "Chinese Tajiks" in English to distinguish the group from Tajiks and Tajikistanis in China. It's also worth noting that members of this ethnic group have travelled and made homes elsewhere in China, so it doesn't make sense to have an article title that limits them to one specific part of the country. This article isn't about Tajiks or Pamiris who live in Xinjiang, but a distinct ethnicity that originated from the region. The article should therefore be renamed and moved to "Chinese Tajiks". Yue🌙 01:42, 28 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 17:51, 6 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Alpha3031 (t • c) 21:06, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Death in Paradise → Death in Paradise (disambiguation) – (Discuss) – The TV series is highly likely to be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The only other "Death in Paradise" (exact title) with an article is a novel, one part of a larger series, with less apparent cultural impact. Google Trends suggests virtually zero worldwide interest in the novel, the TV show's article has been viewed well over fourteen million times and has recieved 1,360 edits, compared to 29,106 views and just 18 revisions for the novel, WikiNav shows that the vast majority of visitors to the disambiguation page subsequently view the TV series article, and Google search results exclusively refer to the show. 2A00:23C6:8809:A301:A1F5:F6A:D604:E64F (talk) 20:43, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Red lines in the Russo-Ukrainian War → Threatening statements in the Russo-Ukrainian War – (Discuss) – The name of this article and the use of "red lines" elsewhere in this article is misleading and a personal feeling of the article creator. Looking at Red lines in the Russo-Ukrainian War#Russian red lines the table includes 24 supposed "red lines" with links to sources included. The sources for these 24 "red lines" do not at all support the claim that the 24 items are "red lines": they are simply "threats", "demands" or other statements from Russian officials, and the term "red line" is not even mentioned by Russian officials. The article begins by an explanation of the term "red line" but then it goes on to list any "threat" or other "demand" as a "red line" without any support for the claim that it is a "red line". It is as if any news article that included the words "red line" is used as a source. A correct source would include a direct quote from a Russian official that includes the words "red line" -- otherwise it is just a "threat", "demand", or other statement, etc. Along with the article name all the "red lines" not supported by primary sources, direct quotes from officials, etc. should be changed to "threats" or other more accurate words. Examples of misleading use of term "red line": * Note 46: ** Used as a source for "red line": "Not to supply Patriot Missile system" ** The source does not support the claim of a "red line" at all, not even a simple threat, it only includes a statement from Russian official. All it includes is: "Former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev warned NATO against providing Ukraine with Patriots and denounced the Atlantic alliance as a “criminal entity” for delivering arms to what he called “Ukrainian fanatics.”" * Note 36: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-warns-west-russia-will-strike-harder-if-longer-range-missiles-supplied-2022-06-05/ ** Used as a source for "red line": "No long-range missiles" ** This article does not even mention the term "red line". It simply includes threats from Vladimir Putin such as: "If longer-range missiles are supplied, "we will strike at those targets which we have not yet been hitting," Putin told the Rossiya-1 state television channel in an interview." * Note 39: https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-tanks-macedonia-thanks/31976738.html ** Used as a source for "red line": "No supplying old Soviet tanks to Ukraine" ** The source only lists a vague statement from Russian official: "On August 3, Russia said it considered North Macedonia's donation of T-72 tanks to Ukraine "a major mistake that will only help the criminal actions of the Kyiv regime."" * Note 48: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/20/europe/russia-warning-f-16-jets-ukraine-intl/index.html ** Used as a source for "red line": "No F-16 fighter jets" ** The source lists only a garden-variety threat: "Russia’s deputy foreign minister has warned Western countries of “enormous risks” if Ukraine is provided with F-16 fighter jets, Russian state media TASS reported Saturday." * Note 32: https://www.evelyn.com/insights-and-events/insights/will-markets-take-the-strain-from-the-russia-ukraine-crisis/ ** Used as a source for "red line": "NATO troops and missiles to be withdrawn from Russia's western border", "NATO to stop eastward expansion and reverses back to position in 1997". ** The source does not support this claim, it only lists "demands" of Vladimir Putin along with the word "red line": "Putin has issued three key demands to Western powers, marking his red lines in negotiations. First, he demanded that Ukraine should never be allowed to join NATO. Second, the organisation should halt its eastward expansion and roll back to its position in 1997." There are many more similar sources that do not support the claims in this article. If these listed "red lines" are supposed to be "red lines" based on the sources cited then any simple threat, demand, etc would be a "red line". It is as if this article is trying to conflate "red lines" and any threatening statement from a Russian official. Bluikkso (talk) 18:20, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Penn-Can Mall → Driver's Village – (Discuss) – Historical mall articles usually take the current name if there is currently another business in the building. For instance, NetPark Tampa Bay not East Lake Square Mall, Wonderland Village not Wonderland Mall, et al. The only exceptions seem to be if the property is demolished or abandoned, such as Forest Fair Mall. As Driver's Village is the current name of the mall's former occupant, I think the precedent of NetPark Tampa Bay should be applied here. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 18:16, 9 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Frost15:51, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yifei Ye → Ye Yifei – (Discuss) – I want to move the article based on the Chinese name format where the surname placed first. In motorsport, he always called by Yifei Ye than Ye Yifei, but to make it consistent with other Chinese figures, and people his name has to be Ye Yifei. It's not Zedong Mao, it's Mao Zedong for example. Originally it supposed to be Ye Yifei but someone change it to Ye Yife, I want to revert it but cannot. Thfeeder (talk) 15:01, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hip hop music → Hip-hop – (Discuss) – This RM seeks to address two issues with the current title. First, music is an unnecessary disambiguator. Prior consensus, WP:IMPLICIT or otherwise, has already determined the music genre to be the primary topic, as Hip hop and its hyphenated counterpart already redirect to this page. If editors determine that this is in fact not the primary topic, then Hip hop should not redirect here and Hip hop (disambiguation) should be moved. Among the topics listed on the disambiguation page, Hip hop (culture) is the only other real contender for the primary topic. Pageviews for the past 365 days indicate that interest in the music genre article trumps that of the culture article by ten times, so it isn't even close. Related templates and categories such as Template:Hip hop and Category:Hip hop do not use a "music" qualifier, nor do most sources, so there is no evidence "music" is a necessary part of the term. Simply "hip hop" is more concise. Upon further investigation, it appears the article Hip hop was moved unilaterally to Hip hop (culture) in May 2022, but this actually gives us stronger evidence. Inspecting the pageviews before and after the move, we see that the culture article averaged around 1000 views per day before the move (green line) but dropped to around 200 after the fact (red line), an average that has remained to this day. This suggests most of the pageviews before the move were in fact looking for the music article when they arrived at the undisambiguated Hip hop page. The second issue this RM aims to rectify is the missing hyphen. Ngrams show "hip-hop" as the overwhelmingly preferred term; this holds true when narrowing down to only noun forms. Dictionaries that use a hyphen include the OED, Merriam-Webster, Cambridge, American Heritage, Collins, Britannica, Dictionary.com, The Free Dictionary, Vocabulary.com, and our own sister site Wiktionary; Longman was the only outlier I found. Several of these dictionaries specifically identify "hip hop" as the less common variant. Furthermore, the AP Stylebook recommends "hip-hop" and the Encyclopedia Britannica also uses "hip-hop", as do Spotify and Apple Music. Even if you do not agree with the first part of this proposal, this second part should be uncontroversial as MOS:HYPHEN says to hyphenate attributive compound modifiers anyway, in accordance with standard grammar conventions. This is why we hyphenate African-American culture but not African Americans. Thus, if you oppose a move to Hip-hop, please consider supporting a move to Hip-hop music at the very least rather than blanket opposing. Finally, please note that the outcome of this RM will affect all hip-hop–related articles, categories, and templates; due to the sheer number of pages involved, they have not been tagged here but will be moved accordingly. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:01, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dave Burke → deleted to make room for move – (Discuss) – Sole Wikipedia entry bearing this exact name, thus obviating need for the parenthetical qualifier "(Australian footballer)". There is likewise no need for the Dave Burke disambiguation page which was created in September 2016 and lists two men, only one of which is named "Dave", without even including a link to the David Burke dab page which lists 21 men, including David Burke (politician), who is the other entry upon the Dave Burke dab page. Instead, a hatnote atop the footballer's three-sentence stub can simply specify: For similarly named people, see David Burke (disambiguation). Alternatively, since "Dave" is such a common variation of "David", the footballer's stub can remain as is and Dave Burke can simply redirect to the David Burke dab page. If that option is considered, notice may be taken of another footballer — Davy Burke — whose entry also has no hatnote directing to the David Burke dab page. Perhaps Davy Burke should be likewise moved to Davy Burke (footballer) while Dave Burke along with Davy Burke both redirect to the David Burke dab page. — Roman Spinner(talk • contribs)01:39, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Larry Gatlin → The Gatlin Brothers – (Discuss) – Most sources, including their official website, refer to Larry and his two brothers as a collective unit, with relatively little focus on Gatlin as a solo artist. Almost all of their singles, per Joel Whitburn, were credited to either "the Gatlin Brothers" or "Larry Gatlin and the Gatlin Brothers"; in fact, according to Whitburn, no single after 1979 credited Gatlin as a solo artist. While the Whitburn book uses "Larry Gatlin and the Gatlin Brothers", more modern sources such as the Grand Ole Opry website use just "the Gatlin Brothers" and refer to them as a three-piece act. As this article covers the career of the group more so than Gatlin as a solo performer, and there is more precedent toward crediting the group, I feel the article should be moved to either "the Gatlin Brothers" or "Larry Gatlin and the Gatlin Brothers". Pinging @Caldorwards4:@Martin4647:. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?)22:42, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Athletics (baseball) → Athletics (baseball team) – (Discuss) – Going from a suggestion by @Spesh531:; I’m finally making this a dedicated move request (not section, as the page was moved while I was typing this originally) so that it’s specifically addressed by the community and there’s a clear consensus for or against this proposal. Now, I understand that other teams like the Texas Rangers (baseball) only have it as (baseball). However, this case is different. In that case, a clear disambiguation is needed, but once it’s established that they’re talking about baseball, it’s understood that they’re talking about team rather than some other terminology. I don’t believe that to be the case here when disambiguating Athletics into (baseball) without any sort of geographic influence in the title. It’s not like, say, the Yankees, removed New York from the title and the article gets called Yankees (baseball). Athletics is a much more general “sports” kind of team title, and therefore, an unfamiliar reader may see the “Athletics (baseball)” title and think the article covers baseball terminology rather than a team; so, with such a general team name, without it being (baseball team), it could be misleading. On that basis, I strongly support (baseball team) over simply (baseball), as it appears to be the strongest, clearest, easiest to understand disambiguation possible. I’m simply seeking a consensus that clearly addresses this; if most are overwhelmingly opposed to (baseball team), I’ll begrudgingly let it stand and withdraw this as SNOW. DrewieStewie (talk) 21:18, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
2024 Kursk offensive → Sudzha offensive – (Discuss) – The entire narrative of the article is that the Ukrainian Armed Forces didn't reach Kursk, and that is why they failed. But the Ukrainian Armed Forces did not have the goal of capturing the regional center. One of Ukraine's goals was to capture Sudzha, an important transport hub to the north of the Sumy Oblast. And it succeeded. Even if you disagree with me, the offensive never reached Kursk, and therefore the title is simply misleading. MarcusTraianus (talk) 20:54, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
J. B. Pritzker → JB Pritzker – (Discuss) – Largely similar to this discussion, it appears as though Pritzker stylizes his name without any periods. I can't judge if it meets MOS:BIOEXCEPT to the letter, but his official website and social medias do not use periods, so WP:ABOUTSELF could apply [47][48][49]. It also seems like his name is most commonly used without periods in reliable sources, see The New York Times [50], Chicago Tribune [51], and Politico [52], for example. Forbes [53] is the only current source I can find using periods for his name, though without a space. It does look like most sources prior to his gubernatorial run used periods, only beginning to drop them in the years since, so this could perhaps be treated as a name change. estar8806 (talk) ★ 19:56, 15 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Sceptre (talk) 20:46, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
May 2009 southern Midwest derecho → 2009 Super Derecho – (Discuss) – It doesn't appear "Super derecho" as a class of storms has been used to describe too many other storms officially - user-generated sources and the old page "Super-derecho" point to a 2003 derecho in the Northeast but I can't easily verify this in reliable-source media. The sole other storm called this was verified here and exists as June 2012 North American derecho. However, the common name for this event is "Super derecho" with some variant of the date preceding, and "May 2009 southern Midwest derecho" seems to be a uniquely Wikipedia thing. Since there is no confusion when using the 2009 ambiguator, I propose that Super derecho also be a redirect here, potentially with a hatnote as the mode "super derecho" appears to be very rare, owing to structure rather than intensity (the 2020 Midwest derecho didn't have the same structure, and therefore wasn't a super derecho). Departure– (talk) 19:00, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
National Rifle Association → National Rifle Association of America – (Discuss) – What's in a name?National Rifle Association is unique amongst articles relating to National Rifle Associations in the title being arbitrarily abbreviated. The organisation is called the “National Rifle Association of America”, but the en.WP article title omits “of America”. In 2024, this: * Does not conform to WP:Criteria * Does not reflect the most common usage within WP * Deserves re-assessment and scrutiny per WP:GLOBALISE to ensure it is not embedding systemic bias. This proposed move will probably be more controversial than it really should be. WP:CRITERIA * Recognizability: The abbreviated form is only recognisable when contextualised as US/USPol. Most Authority Control sources & third party encyclopaedias use the full name, since context is not available until you start reading the entry. * Naturalness: “of America” is not unnatural - the other articles cope with “of Australia” or “of India”. Moreover, the majority of in-body wikilinks use the full “of America” form, so editors across en.WP don't find it too objectionable. ** Link Count shows 983 indirect links (of which 962 are the "of America" redirect) versus 906 direct links. However, some 556 of the direct links are from articles transcluding the Conservatism US template. In terms of “in-body” or “organic” wikilinks , it’s something like 983 indirect versus just 350 direct. The current title is not actually that commonly used within wikipedia. * Precision: “National Rifle Association” is imprecise and does not unambiguously define the scope. This has caused actual errors and confusion including: ** https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Arthur_Young_(police_officer)&diff=next&oldid=1059158586 ** https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wellingborough_School_CCF&diff=377972454&oldid=375522019 * Concision: “of America” is not verbose. It might be verbose to use it repeatedly once contextualised, but not on first use or as an article title. * Consistency: omitting “of America” is inconsistent with NRA of India/Pakistan/Australia/New Zealand/Norway. We “got away with it” when Wikipedia was more US-centric, but Wikipedia is now covers more global subjects and it deserves re-evaluation to ensure we are not embedding systemic bias. WP:COMMONNAME A 2022 discussion on the Talk page (which was not an RfM discussion and therefore mainly engaged involved editors) came to No Consensus for Change. Some editors cited WP:COMMONNAME when opposing the move. However, this seems to be a What First Comes to Mind interpretation as COMMONNAME is really intended for situations like Cassius Clay/Mohammed Ali. Although there are exceptions where an abbreviation or acronym is used (e.g. FIFA), the only way I can see it applying here is by arguing that “the abbreviated form is what mass media use”. However, COMMONNAME is more nuanced than that:
“Editors should also consider all five of the criteria for article titles outlined above. Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources. … When there are multiple names for a subject, all of which are fairly common, and the most common has problems, it is perfectly reasonable to choose one of the others.”
Passage Publishing → Jonathan Keeperman – (Discuss) – More of a rescoping than a move. Passage Publishing does not really fulfill our more stringent NCORP guidelines, however its founder, Keeperman, fulfills NBASIC. This is an attempt to resolve the notability issue, as I strongly think this article should exist in some form - and most of the articles that talk about Passage Press are really about Keeperman. If the sourcing existed I would prefer it the other way around, but alas. PARAKANYAA (talk) 20:49, 14 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Frostly (talk) 08:51, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unknown Archon → ? – (Discuss) – This "Unknown Archon" sounds like this is a proper name, but it's apparently not, this is just uppercase added to a translation of one of the general descriptions used in historiography about this story. The article is a bit of a mess - most of it is the lead section that doesn't actually summarize the body; half the body is a verbatim copy from a 20th-century translation of a 10th-century primary source, and then there's a few paragraphs which kind of say yeah none of this stuff in the lead is necessarily true true. So I don't really know if there's a good name for this topic, or if this small amount of context has potential - should it just be merged into a more general article? Joy (talk) 07:54, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apollo Sauroctonos → Apollo Sauroktonos – (Discuss) – most of the sources that are currently in the article, as well as external sources not on the page, refer to it as 'sauroktonos' instead of 'sauroctonos'. additionally, the letter 'c' does not exist in the attic greek alphabet and using a kappa (k) is a more appropriate transliteration. however, a few sources do use the form with a 'c' so it is an appropriate redirect 2A02:C7C:2DCE:1F00:9C41:7BD2:C8D1:758 (talk) 00:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Political appointments by Donald Trump → Political appointments by Donald Trump in his first term – (Discuss) – Opening this discussion to discuss a good page name for these pages. As Trump has won a 2nd term, many of his existing presidential pages have been moved to "first ___ " (e.g. First cabinet of Donald Trump, First presidential transition of Donald Trump). Don't think that verbiage works well here, but asking for input for a good naming scheme. Also, feel free to add other pages that should be moved, as Trump is likely to have a new set of appointees, etc, during his 2nd term. Natg 19 (talk) 00:58, 7 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.cyberdog958Talk 04:15, 14 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Zippybonzo | talk | contribs (they/them) 20:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
List of census divisions of Ontario → List of administrative divisions of Ontario – (Discuss) – 95% of this article content is *about* administrative divisions, not about census divisions, and I'd argue that administrative divisions are a lot more important than how the census is subdivided. Currently the page *lists* census divisions but categorizes them by their form of administration which is strange, and leads to confusing results for Brant/Brantford and Haldimand/Norfolk. A separate page about census divisions could also be created although I think just specifying within this page where there are differences would be sufficient. Somatochlora (talk) 16:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Allegations of United States support for the Khmer Rouge → United States support for the Khmer Rouge – (Discuss) – Reopening discussion. According to the above backlog, editors have overwhelmingly voiced support for the requested move. I fail to understand @Estar8806's decision to close the discussion and sideline the consensus that is apparent. As I wrote him on this user talk: Multiple statements in the article are factual and undisputed and correspond to US support of the Khmer Rouge: 1) U.S. voted for the Khmer Rouge and the Khmer Rouge-dominated Coalition Government of Democratic Kampuchea (CGDK) to retain Cambodia's United Nations (UN) seat until as late as 1993, long after the Khmer Rouge had been mostly deposed by Vietnam. = diplomatic US support 2) I encourage the Chinese to support Pol Pot, said Zbigniew Brzezinski, the national security adviser at the time. The question was how to help the Cambodian people. Pol Pot was an abomination. We could never support him, but China could.= diplomatic US support has admitted by a member of the then US government (quoted here from the NYTimes source of ref 20) I will not even go on investigate the claims of political scholars quoted in the wiki article since this much is already tantamount to US support. NokGradten (talk) 08:59, 12 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.– robertsky (talk) 11:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Robin Hood in popular culture → Robin Hood in literature and the arts – (Discuss) – A lot of this stuff is not "popular culture". A play performed 1475 is not going to be filmed and shown at the Cineplex. It might be studied by a university professor. Ditto stuff written in 1678 and 1712 etc. "Hodd" is an academic work. There's an 1860 opera, and an MA course on Robin. Bunch of ballads and folk tales from centuries ago at least. Probably ther're a few more.
If there is such a thing as "popular culture" as opposed to just "culture" anymore, these aren't it. We don't want to split the article or name it "Robin Hood in popular and elite culture". And after all even comics are literature and pop songs the arts, so we're not being untrue. And there are a few articles already that use this form. Herostratus (talk) 21:42, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Clarissa (novel) → Clarissa; or, The History of a Young Lady – (Discuss) – Opening up this discussion again, as I'd like to confirm the correct result was reached in last week's discussion. There was clear consensus to move the article away from plain Clarissa, but not as clear a consensus for the destination. I believe that including the subtitle rather than a parenthetical disambiguator is a better solution, (a) per WP:SUBTITLE, (b) Richardson's other (major) novel is at Pamela; or, Virtue Rewarded, so the proposed move will be consistent with it, and (c) as mentioned above, there is also an unfinished novel by Stefan Zweig called Clarissa, which potentially could have an article at some point, making the current title of this article ambiguous. Tevildo (talk) 21:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Gateway, Inc. → Gateway 2000 – (Discuss) – As this is a defunct company and is looked on retrospectively, I think Gateway 2000 is the COMMONNAME of the subject. The company seems to be better known in retrospect and remembered under its original name with the "2000" added to "Gateway". Sceeegt (talk) 19:14, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Paris Saint-Germain Academy → Paris Saint-Germain Youth Academy – (Discuss) – This is the correct name per this and this. "Paris Saint-Germain Academy" is the name for a program of football camps for children across the world. It's not the name for the actual youth academy of Paris Saint-Germain FC. The old RM was a mistake on my part. The academy is usually called the "youth academy of PSG" or something along those lines most of the time too. Paul Vaurie (talk) 03:40, 12 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 17:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
United Volleyball Club → Cocolife Asset Managers – (Discuss) – As per WP:COMMONNAME. This is a defunct team, which was widely referred to as the "COCOLIFE Asset Managers" by the media (except in 2019 when they lost Cocolife as a sponsor) despite for using the crest on the infobox, actual jerseys and social media presence used "Cocolife". That is just the nature of sports team in the Philippines. It doesn't make sense to keep the name of a club which had a brief name change at the end of their existence. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 15:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Klabat University → Universitas Klabat – (Discuss) – The proposed name change from "Klabat University" to "Universitas Klabat" is necessary to align with the official name used by the institution in all formal and legal contexts. "Universitas Klabat" is the recognized and registered name in Indonesia, reflecting its identity and adherence to national naming conventions for higher education institutions. Updating the title ensures accuracy, consistency, and better representation of the university's official branding and communication. Unklabwebmaster (talk) 08:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Leonid Kadeniuk → Leonid Kadenyuk – (Discuss) – The article itself constantly refers to Kadenyuk. "Leonid Kadenyuk" is his name on Britannica and in several sources. "Leonid Kadenyuk" gets 5,740 results on Google while "Leonid Kadeniuk" gets 2,830. The Y seems to be the correct spelling. It also follows the custom of similar names like Igor Kornelyuk. Evedawn99 (talk) 03:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ross Stores → Ross Dress for Less – (Discuss) – There seems to be a favor for calling it "Ross Dress for Less". I am presenting more evidence than last time. To wit: * If you search for a store on Google Maps, every store is labeled "Ross Dress for Less", and Google Maps usually defers to the most common nomenclature. * Independent news articles such as this, this, this, and this use "Ross Dress for Less", whereas searching "Ross Stores" tends to give press releases, corporate directories, and more financial-leaning sources. * Directories for shopping malls which have one, such as this, use the full name "Ross Dress for Less". * The company's official Facebook and Instagram accounts both use "Ross Dress for Less". * The copyright for the logo includes the "Dress for Less" part, suggesting it is part of the name and not just a slogan. I could not find any instances where just the "Ross" part of the logo was used, further suggesting "Dress for Less" is officially part of the company name. Despite what was said in the previous RM, I don't consider the "Dress for Less" part promotional in tone if it's legally part of the name any more so than the "dollar" in Dollar General is promotional. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 18:40, 12 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Raladic (talk) 00:47, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Parcels (band) → Parcels – (Discuss) – The band is the only mention to a plural of the term and gets significantly the most views [[60]]. Seems redundant to disambiguate when I'd say it's the primary topic here (note I am talking about parcels plural, not the singular parcel) especially when considering WP:SMALLDETAILS. Otherwise I'd be open to changing the redirect from Parcels → Parcels (band) to Parcels → Parcel, but as it is it's flawed. orangesclub🍊04:29, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Elapsed listings
The 7-day listing period has elapsed. Items below may be closed if there's a consensus, or if discussion has run its course and consensus could not be achieved.
Elapsed listings fall into the backlog after 24 hours. Consider relisting 8-day-old discussions with minimal participation.
Kuji-in → Kuji-kiri – (Discuss) – The kuji-in..., also known as Nine Hand Seals, is a system of mudras and associated mantras that consist of nine syllables. ja wiki has articles ja:九字護身法 and ja:九字, currently wikidata connects Kuji-in to 九字, but the ja article only discussed the 9 characters, hand seals and such are in 九字護身法. Kuji-kiri redirects here, and is linked to 九字護身法 in wikidata. Keep "Kuji-in <-> 九字" and "Kuji-kiri <-> 九字護身法" in wikidata, then move and adjust the en article would be the easiest way to solve this. ps, one alternative to "Kuji-kiri" is to translate "九字護身法". Sohryu Asuka Langley Not Shikinami (talk) 01:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Outing (essay) → ? – (Discuss) – This essay currently has rather poor visibility, and I believe its title is to blame. For one, adding a hatnote to the target of Wikipedia:Outing and Wikipedia:OUTING to refer back to this essay seems like it would cause more confusion than help, especially given the already-large stack of hatnotes at that target. For two, this essay may be outdated, given it was created in 2006 and its most recent edit was in 2013; due to this, it seems some of the claims in the essay may be inaccurate since Wikipedia has advanced some of its policies since then. In a nutshell, I'm opening this move request since a new title for this page is a start, though not necessarily the end nor the only fix. Steel1943 (talk) 09:32, 8 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.𝙹𝚒𝚢𝚊𝚗 忌炎(𝚃𝚊𝚕𝚔)17:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Minnesota Fats → Minnesota Fats (character) – (Discuss) – Why isn't the article at Minnesota Fats? That is by far the most common name used here to refer to him. Every source in the article uses Minnesota Fats, to the point even his NYT obit called him that and not Rudolph Wanderone, and the word "Wanderone" is hardly used in the text of the article instead of "Fats". Sure, he named himself after a fictional character, but inbound links and page views suggest most people looking for "Minnesota Fats" are looking for the pool player and not the character. It's blatantly obvious Wanderone's legacy has far outlasted that of the fictional character from whom he derived his name. This seems a crystal-clear violation of WP:COMMONNAME to have his article at "Rudolph Wanderone", and to me, it's like if we arbitrarily decided to move Lady Gaga's article to "Stefani Germanotta". I'm genuinely shocked no one else has even considered this issue in the past ten years. Previous discussion in 2014 had everyone pulling a different direction, and me in a more hostile mood, so I'm hoping to get a consensus this time with a clearer focus from both me and others. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 20:08, 16 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Charlotte (Queen of Hearts • talk) 00:23, 24 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Safari ScribeEdits!Talk!08:25, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Stadion Miejski (Białystok) → Białystok Municipal Stadium – (Discuss) – I am submitting this request to revert the article title of the stadium in Białystok to its previous title, Białystok Municipal Stadium in light of recent actions by the user FromCzech. The move to the Polish-language title Stadion Miejski (Białystok) was made unilaterally and appears inconsistent with Wikipedia's guidelines, specifically WP:UE. This guideline encourages the use of English translations where appropriate to maintain accessibility for the global readership. FromCzech has argued for the name change without prior discussion, potentially as a reaction to a naming debate on Lokotrans Aréna that I initiated. This recent move does not reflect a consensus, and it also disrupts the established consistency within the "Football venues in Poland" category, where nearly all stadium names are translated into English. Notable examples include Father Władysław Augustynek Stadium, Gdynia Municipal Stadium, Kielce Municipal Stadium, and Raków Municipal Stadium. I urge that the title "Białystok Municipal Stadium" be restored to uphold Wikipedia’s principles of consistency and transparency, while also preventing this matter from being affected by personal disputes or editing motivated by anything other than Wikipedia's editorial standards. Paradygmaty (talk) 21:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk)21:30, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Siege of Gerona (disambiguation) → Sieges of Gerona – (Discuss) – Several issues I hope to address with these proposed moves. First, it makes little sense to have the "second" and "third" sieges as titles but to call the first event a battle; of the three is was the most like a battle, but the distinction is confusing in this case. It does seem that [ordinal] siege of Gerona is the most common manner of disambiguating the various events. If the first segment were to carry the WP:COMMONNAME "Battle" then it should not carry a parenthetical qualifier, being already WP:NATURALly disambiguated and the primary topic for the term; the base name Battle of Girona already redirects there and is WP:MISPLACED. Second, when used alone without additional context, "Siege of Gerona" does seem to refer to the successful final siege as a primary topic, and currently redirects there. I am proposing to leave this as a primary redirect and turn the disambiguation page into a set index at the plural, but I would also support having the set index in place of the redirect at the singular. Third, while I personally feel "Siege" in these titles is part of the proper noun, use in sources is mixed, and most "siege" articles on enwiki do not take siege as part of the proper noun (in contrast to "Battle of..." which is almost always part of the proper noun; I don't see the distinction) and WP:MILCAPS is vague, so for now let's go for being the most consistent. Lastly, as for the Girona vs. Gerona issue, there has been past move reversions and discussion about this (e.g. Talk:Third siege of Girona#Girona/Gerona), and we should reach consensus here. I am open to either spelling, but am proposing a return to Gerona because it does seem a majority of reliable sources use this spelling, and that is the criterion upon which we should base our choice. On the other hand, the modern spelling of the city is the Catalan spelling. Regardless, the set index/disambiguation page should use the same spelling as the articles. Overall, I am open to discussing and considering any and all variations of this proposal, but the status quo should not be kept. Mdewman6 (talk) 04:03, 1 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Vanderwaalforces (talk) 22:07, 10 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 17:43, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hiawatha (train) → Hiawatha (MILW train) – (Discuss) – These paranthetical names aren't quite as clear and precise as they can be since multiple other trains have used these names throughout their history. The simple parenthetical "(train)" isn't really enough to distinguish these different trains from each other. The first article is solely about the multiple trains operated by the Milwaukee Road which predate the current Amtrak train along the corridor of the same name. The name could be changed to "trains" to indicate the multitude of different trains covered in the article. The Amtrak/Via Maple Leaf isn't the only named train with a termini in Toronto, especially the historical Lehigh Valley Railroad train, which also ran to New York City, albeit with a different alignment. The name of the article could also be changed to maybe "Amtrak/Via", but the train from my understanding is moreso grouped with Amtrak. The Amtrak Palmetto is the successor of the ACL train of the same name. The fourth article is about a completely unrelated historical ATSF train operating in California separate from the current Amtrak train. The Wolverine is also the name of a historical New York Central Railroad train. Nonetheless, I don't necessarily believe in these names as final as I want them to be subject to change, and not all of them need to be implemented. I will say that if we decide that the simple parenthetical of "(train)" is sufficient in describing the articles in question, then perhaps instead the article titles for the Amtrak Pere Marquette, Silver Star, and Valley Flyer could have "Amtrak" dropped from their parentheticals for naming consistency across all Amtrak train articles. Thoughts? OrdinaryScarlett (talk) 06:21, 23 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. ASUKITE 15:08, 31 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.—Compassionate727(T·C)13:59, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tel al-Sultan attack → ? – (Discuss) – I am bringing this discussion back up with a stronger argument and after the Good Article review has concluded. I have identified many sources calling this incident a massacre. There are likely more, so feel free to add any. They include The Guardian (opinion piece), Morrocco World News, The Peninsula Qatar, Truthout, Al-Ahram, Daily Sabah, Jacobin, Vox (Not explicitly, though cites someone calling it one, says it’s a slaughter in headline, and says Israel is massacring Palestinians), TRT World (Partially reliable) Le Monde, Middle East Eye, El Pais, The New Arab, Mondoweiss, Gulf News, Huffington Post (Disputed reliability), The Intercept, The Nation (opinion piece), Aljazeera and Aljazeera Arabic. Many mainstream media articles also cite people who describe the attack as a massacre, though do not explicitly claim it to be so. Humanitarian groups Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor and Doctors Without Borders have described the incident as a massacre. Officials of Colombia,[61] Saudi Arabia,[62] the State of Palestine,[63] and the Organization of Islamic States[64] have called the attack a massacre. United Nations Special Rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territories Francesca Albanese has called it a massacre.[65] Additionally, Hamas and the Palestinian Civil Defense in Rafah have called the incident a massacre.[66] Last time, there was also the issue of whether the attacks were intentional, as “massacre” is a loaded word that may imply intentionally killing civilians. Firstly, NYT quotes an expert who suggests Israel may have tried to mitigate harm but accepted civilian casualties,[67] and an MSNBC analysis indicates Israel should have known there were civilians in the area.[68] Al-Jazeera’s fact checking agency[69] and India Today[70] think so, and suggestions by Israel that a weapons dump exploded have been refuted by the New York Times, who found no evidence of the claim.[71] Egypt[72] and the PA[73] also allege that it was intentional. There is still the issue of what exactly to call the article in any case. We have some options: A: Keep it the same, Tel al-Sultan _. B: Rafah tent camp _. C: Just "Rafah _" Personisinsterest (talk) 21:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
